Dissidia Duodecim Final Fantasy continues Squeenix's tradition of stupid titles

[bluestarultor]

Well, for all hoping for Balthier, it seems he's out: http://community.livejournal.com/ffchaoticcosmos/290259.html#cutid1

They got his Japanese VA for Laguna, so unless he's pulling a double role (unlikely in this production), we're only going to have one fabulous man with a gun.

[Bells]

If i'm getting this right, this time around they are playing with the characters memories to swap around Some heroes and some Villains, right?

That could explain... somewhat... the lack of more villain characters. I loved the original Dissidia and this one actually seems capable of being even better

[bluestarultor]

If i'm getting this right, this time around they are playing with the characters memories to swap around Some heroes and some Villains, right?

That could explain... somewhat... the lack of more villain characters. I loved the original Dissidia and this one actually seems capable of being even better

Well, the way things look is that some of the villains are conflicted on the issue. Jecht is rumored to be with Cosmos this time. Kuja especially seems reluctant to fight for Chaos, but Terra is for sure on the Chaos side for at least a period. Kain is seen with Tifa on good terms, and Tifa is known to be opposed to Sephy, but Kain attacked other Cosmos warriors, so while he seems to be a hero, it's not sure when he switches or if he switches back. Ultimecia may be neutral, as she's seen saying something to the effect of "screw these gods and their business."

Laguna is confirmed to be firmly in the Cosmos camp, though. They described him as being the team "big brother."

[Bells]

From the trailers and info so far, WoL seems conflicted and out too... In the First Dissidia a lot of the Villains were with Chaos for a "lack of options" this time it seems they are mostly in the middle.

Lightning too seems less than 100% with Cosmos. So i think this time the "Goody Goody" heroes like Onion Knight, Bartz and Firion are more like second tiers to the story.

[bluestarultor]

From the trailers and info so far, WoL seems conflicted and out too... In the First Dissidia a lot of the Villains were with Chaos for a "lack of options" this time it seems they are mostly in the middle.

Lightning too seems less than 100% with Cosmos. So i think this time the "Goody Goody" heroes like Onion Knight, Bartz and Firion are more like second tiers to the story.

WoL is squarely with Cosmos, but lacks leadership skills this time around and doesn't feel he's worthy. He's seen saying he'll protect Cosmos to his last breath, so I don't think he'll turn on her.

Lightning isn't against working for Cosmos so much as she's not happy about being lassoed in in general. She seems to eventually warm up to the idea enough to call people traitors, so yeah.


Edit: Just got in a batch of Laguna info!

http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Laguna_Loire/Dissidia

[Kerensky287]

His first alternate costume is his Galbadian soldier uniform; a dark blue bodysuit under torso armour covering his chest and hips.

Yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeessssssssssssssssssss ssss

[Squall Leonhart]

We've got NEWCOMER GAMEPLAY (http://community.livejournal.com/ffchaoticcosmos/291266.html)! We see clearly how their moves work, their EX-Mode/Burst and also, the Assist Characters, be it offensive or defensive assistance.

EDIT: On an entirely unrelated note, I like Final Fantasy VIII's music this time around.

[bluestarultor]

We've got NEWCOMER GAMEPLAY (http://community.livejournal.com/ffchaoticcosmos/291266.html)! We see clearly how their moves work, their EX-Mode/Burst and also, the Assist Characters, be it offensive or defensive assistance.

EDIT: On an entirely unrelated note, I like Final Fantasy VIII's music this time around.

I still wish they'd picked The Man With The Machine Gun. One of my favorite tracks ever. It still gets my toes going after, what, over a decade now?

[Kerensky287]

Holy shit, Laguna for God Tier. Calling it now. Lightning barely even got a hit in.

I love the remix of FF12's Esper Battle, too. That Vaan vs Tifa fight was really great all around. I might spend a lot of time as Vaan, pending confirmation that 1) his moves aren't really weird (like Bartz's were) and that 2) his VA isn't too horrible.

"Too horrible" is a relative term yeah but it's also the reason I stopped playing Zidane. FLY AWAAAAAAAY too slow FLY AWAAAAAAAY too slow too slow too slow

[POS Industries]

I really shouldn't be this surprised to see a jiggle mechanic introduced with Tifa joining the cast.

[Locke cole]

Holy shit, Laguna for God Tier. Calling it now. Lightning barely even got a hit in.


Lightning really should've spent more time closing the physical gap Laguna kept building. The dude is obviously a ranged specialist: get him in close range if you want to catch the blighter.

[Kerensky287]

I dunno, maybe I was just dazzled by the billions of rockets that were in the air at all times. And the killsat.

God, Laguna has a killsat.

[Bells]

I really shouldn't be this surprised to see a jiggle mechanic introduced with Tifa joining the cast.

Wait... what?

You noticed that in the video? I didn't notice that...

...where you looking for that?

[Doc ock rokc]

Wait... what?

You noticed that in the video? I didn't notice that...

...where you looking for that?

This is pos we are talking about

[POS Industries]

Wait... what?

You noticed that in the video? I didn't notice that...

...where you looking for that?
Son, I played Dissidia from top to bottom. I know every nuance of its simulated physics, especially in regard to character models, since I had to see everyone's intros countless times. A change like this is glaring, and frankly a little off-putting. I'm sure it'll be written off as a reference to the comically overdone jiggle physics Square used for her in cutscenes for FF7, but I don't feel like it was ever necessary.

It's not something I feel is worth pitching a fit over, but still.

[POS Industries]

So apparently a new trailer's out from Jump Festa, and as usual is super duper secret because S-E is silly. However, leaked information from it suggest, among other things, that the Phantom Train will be a stage and a tease for a new character (a shot of a robed woman's feet walking on water) is leading most to suspect Yuna.

There's also a bit of a wild fan theory spawned from Dissidiaforums that they've really latched onto wherein a game getting a new stage means that it doesn't get a new character. This idea hinges on XI, XII, and XIII being exceptions (all three are shown to have new stages, and the latter two have new characters to match) as well as a much looser interpretation of Nomura's statement that there'd be a new stage for every new character (taking it to mean that the number of new stages will equal the number of new characters rather than the new stages being associated with them). It's complete bunk, of course, but it's becoming treated like gospel and making it increasingly difficult to get confirmed character information out of there.

Anyway, along with the already known Prima Vista (IX), Sky Fortress Bahamut (XII), and Orphan's Cradle (XIII), new stages apparently include Crystal Tower (III), Phantom Train (VI), and Empyreal Paradox (XI). Phantom Train, J.E.N.O.V.A., and Final Battle (IV) are newly added songs to the soundtrack.

[bluestarultor]

So apparently a new trailer's out from Jump Festa, and as usual is super duper secret because S-E is silly. However, leaked information from it suggest, among other things, that the Phantom Train will be a stage and a tease for a new character (a shot of a robed woman's feet walking on water) is leading most to suspect Yuna.

There's also a bit of a wild fan theory spawned from Dissidiaforums that they've really latched onto wherein a game getting a new stage means that it doesn't get a new character. This idea hinges on XI, XII, and XIII being exceptions (all three are shown to have new stages, and the latter two have new characters to match) as well as a much looser interpretation of Nomura's statement that there'd be a new stage for every new character (taking it to mean that the number of new stages will equal the number of new characters rather than the new stages being associated with them). It's complete bunk, of course, but it's becoming treated like gospel and making it increasingly difficult to get confirmed character information out of there.

Anyway, along with the already known Prima Vista (IX), Sky Fortress Bahamut (XII), and Orphan's Cradle (XIII), new stages apparently include Crystal Tower (III), Phantom Train (VI), and Empyreal Paradox (XI). Phantom Train, J.E.N.O.V.A., and Final Battle (IV) are newly added songs to the soundtrack.

Well, this is partly copied from my post on FF Wiki, but I'm guessing:

FFII - Pandaemonium, top floor - ???(Leon would work for another Chaos character)
FFIII - Crystal Tower - (Xande is the only other character worth including)
FFIV - ???(Crystal Palace/Mount Ordeals/Tower of Bab-il) - Kain
FFVI - Phantom Train - ???(Shadow was possible there and might work for Chaos if Terra turns good; otherwise Cyan, Sabin, or... Sigfried...)
FFVII - ???(Nibelheim Reactor/Shin-Ra mansion/Shin-Ra HQ) - Tifa
FFVIII - ???(Esthar/whatever the town was) - Laguna
FFIX - Prima Vista - ???(Vivi/Beatrix/Garnet)
FFX - ???(damn, take your pick!) - Yuna?
FFXI - Empyreal Paradox - ???(never played XI)
FFXII - Sky Fortress Bahamut - Vaan
FFXIII - Orphan's Cradle - Lightning


As you can see, out of 10 slots, that's 11 new additions, so something's gotta give. Unless Square found a way to pack more into the UMD, I'm guessing that what people are calling the Crystal Tower is really the Crystal Palace for Kain. Either that, or Pandaemonium (top floor) is not its own area.

Edit: The above also ignores a place for Gilgamesh, who's an insanely popular character with one of the best themes of the series and is a stated favorite of the staff's. Basically, given half a whit of evidence, the guy's pretty much a lock and could easily work for Chaos. I do know he appears in some form in XI, but TBH, that form doesn't make much sense from what I'm reading, and I can just imagine the outcry if they tried to pull using that for his form everywhere else unless they did it all in alternate costumes.

[Donomni]

Empyreal Paradox is the place for the last boss fight in the Chains of Promathia Expansion, so seeing Prishe (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Prishe) or Selh'teus (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Selh%27teus) seems likely.

Of course, Promathia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Promathia) is possible, but that'd require a character overhaul to make him playable, I'd think.

[bluestarultor]

Empyreal Paradox is the place for the last boss fight in the Chains of Promathia Expansion, so seeing Prishe (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Prishe) or Selh'teus (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Selh%27teus) seems likely.

Of course, Promathia (http://wiki.ffxiclopedia.org/wiki/Promathia) is possible, but that'd require a character overhaul to make him playable, I'd think.

I think we're forgetting that Shantotto is supposed to be a Cosmos warrior and therefore needs a Chaos counterpart.

[Kerensky287]

Are we theorizing now? I think we're theorizing now.

What we know:
-There will not be an equal number of characters included from each game. Whether that means one game's going to have 2 newcomers (coughFF7cough) or just that they won't include some games was not stated.
-There will be one new map per new character. This does not necessarily mean the character and map will be related.
-In the first game, characters were selected based on their relevance to the main plot AND their relationships to each other. Seymour was passed up in favor of Jecht, for example. So far the new characters added sort of follow that pattern too, actually - that doesn't necessarily mean it's going to STAY that way but it's something.
-Only numbered-series games and spinoffs of those games will be included. That means FFTactics is a no, but stuff like FFX-2, Revenant Wings and Crisis Core are possible.

Nearly guaranteed (I'm 95% sure):
-Xande. He was basically the main villain in FF3, and they're already adding Crystal Tower.
-Promathia. Just listen to that boss music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zZ6Es1h8W0g)! I mean it's a two-form fight already, take his second half and call it an Ex Mode. I know nothing about FF11 beyond the first 15 levels of it but I'm in favor of this idea. Plus, they already have his freakin' boss arena.
-Celes. She has the closest relationship with Kefka of all the main characters (except maybe Cyan), she was basically the main character in World of Ruin, she has a mechanic (Runic) that could be used in a very clever way in this sort of game, and her backstory even gives her an excuse to start out on Chaos' side. Everything fits except that she has nothing to do with Phantom Train, but the characters aren't necessarily related to the selected maps, right?

Fairly sure (70% or more)
-Noctus. Lightning and Noctus weren't included in the first Dissidia because their abilities hadn't been nailed down yet. If the devs of 13versus have settled on what Noctus can do, he's a shoe-in.
-Somebody from FF9, probably Vivi... though we've got a jillion black mages already, so I don't know how they could give him a unique playstyle.
-Somebody from FF10. My money's on Auron, who has an excellent relationship with both existing FF10 characters, a Blitz-esque overdrive that they could implement in his playstyle, and a TON of loyal fans.
-Genesis. Yes, they already have an FF7 character, but if they were going to have 2 new reps from one game, you know it's going to be FF7... anyway, the sequels and spinoffs relatively recently seem to be aiming at raising him to the level of "New villain," whether we like it or not. I wouldn't be surprised at all if they threw him in.

Wild mass guessing:
-Gilgamesh as a FF5 rep. The team likes him and he's really popular with fans. No other reasons, really.
-Feolthanos from FF12 Revenant Wings. He's a summoner, which could give him a very interesting playstyle. Also, he has a beard. Who else in Dissidia has facial hair? I'll give you a hint: only the best character. (http://thelifestream.net/wp-content/uploads/dissidia_artwork_jecht.png)
-If not Auron, then both Seymour and FF10-2 Yuna. Seymour's more of an antagonist than Jecht was, and Yuna's Dress spheres are an interesting mechanic.
-If not Celes, then both Edgar and Sabin. Edgar would be a really cool character to include, but it just feels weird having him without his brother...
-Several characters as alternate costumes - Zack as a Cloud alt, Seifer as a Squall alt, Locke as a Vaan alt (I can dream!), Shuyin as a Tidus alt... there are some easy ways to include popular characters in here, I'd be surprised if they didn't explore a few of them. They've already included Basch and Edea this way.

[Bells]

the thing about Dissidia is that it's a writers Dream. Each game begins out of nowhere and it's expected that all memories are wiped in the games end, and yet, it's a continuous story with ever evolving elements.

There is a very strong vibe that there will be a 3rd Dissida game, but there is also a somewhat limited amount of room on a UMD. And Squeenix is already tracking pretty close to that Cap ever since game 1. So there isn't a lot of room for much more content.

[Doc ock rokc]

the thing about Dissidia is that it's a writers Dream. Each game begins out of nowhere and it's expected that all memories are wiped in the games end, and yet, it's a continuous story with ever evolving elements.

There is a very strong vibe that there will be a 3rd Dissida game, but there is also a somewhat limited amount of room on a UMD. And Squeenix is already tracking pretty close to that Cap ever since game 1. So there isn't a lot of room for much more content.

However the psp2 is stated to out right drop UMD.

[Bells]

You know... i would'nt bet on it. I actually think it's more likely for a 3rd Dissidia game to be out on the PS3 than for it to be a PSP2 Main Launch title, y'know?

[POS Industries]

As you can see, out of 10 slots, that's 11 new additions, so something's gotta give. Unless Square found a way to pack more into the UMD
I'm guessing there's going to be a massive slimming down of the story mode in a lot of respects. While they are implementing 3D environments to move about in during the story as well as a villain campaign, it appears that they're going to just be presenting it in a single narrative rather than 14 separate ones with 10 different versions of the same scene in some parts depending on who you were playing at the time. That's something I could see freeing up a lot of space for meatier stuff like characters and stages.

As for more fangasmy speculation, the inclusion of the Phantom Train to me screams Cyan for the new FFVI character. Shadow is definitely a strong possibility as well (great train robber of the century, as well as that bit in the Anthologies port featuring him on the train in the FMV) seeing as he's such a fan favorite.

Both characters bring something to Team Cosmos that it sorely lacks: something other than teenage waifs.

[Flarecobra]

*Puts on a shirt that states "Cyan for Dissida Duodecim: Not just a color anymore!"*

[Locke cole]

Heck yeah, Cyan. The second-or-third-coolest over-50-year-old in the series.

[Donomni]

I think we're forgetting that Shantotto is supposed to be a Cosmos warrior and therefore needs a Chaos counterpart.

True, so Prishe is probably out, but Selh'teus is mysterious enough in CoP's plot to serve as a mole for Cosmos or do some side-switching later.

Of course, this is all based on the Arena-fits-the-character theory. A Chaos character that would actually fit much better would be Raogrimm/Teh Shadowlord or Zeid.

[Flarecobra]

It appears the Japanese date is set: March 3rd, 2011.

Source (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/12/17/dissidia-012duodecim-final-fantasy-set-for-march-with-chaos-cosmos-psp/)

[bluestarultor]

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/12/20/square-enix-still-has-super-nintendo-and-up-dissidia-012duodecim-characters-to-reveal/

Nomura just stated that all new additions will be from the SNES era forward. In other words, no Leon.

[Locke cole]

http://www.siliconera.com/2010/12/20/square-enix-still-has-super-nintendo-and-up-dissidia-012duodecim-characters-to-reveal/

Nomura just stated that all new additions will be from the SNES era forward. In other words, no Leon.

Nooooooo!

This means no Xande!

[Bells]

So... out of 13 main games the new additions can only come from the last 10.

And i imagine he means this, only considering the original launch dates and none of the remakes. cause if not, he wouldn't be cutting any game off.

Way to shorten the list nomura!...

[bluestarultor]

So... out of 13 main games the new additions can only come from the last 10.

And i imagine he means this, only considering the original launch dates and none of the remakes. cause if not, he wouldn't be cutting any game off.

Way to shorten the list nomura!...

Actually, it does. Ten possible new characters, ten games to pull them from? Nomura, you sneaky card!

What this essentially means is pick the most popular characters that aren't already in from the last ten games, cross your fingers, and wait. This strongly helps Gilgy's case for FF5.

It also means that the new arenas may have zero to do with the new characters.

[Bells]

4, 7, 8 and 12 are out. Out of 10 we have 6 games left. 13 is also Out (i would bet) so now we have 5.

I would bet 11 ain't getting one. So now we have 4.

So...
FF5 - Lenna or Faris. Most Likely. I wouldn't bet on Galuf and Krike.
FF6 - Any character that ain't Setzer from KH ould do
FF9 - Garnet, Eiko or Maybe Fran
FF10 - Yuna or Maybe Auron

Now, From FF5 I would bet on Faris. It would just be an Awesome addition.

From FF6, it really is anyone's guess... but if Doudecim is playing with character memories and mixing heroes and Villains, Celes and Shadow would fit right.

From FF9... it's actually a hard choice. You have 2 Summoners, Eiko and Garnet. In gameplay they would pretty much be the same (i wouldn't be surprised if One was the Alt Costume of the other) but playing a Summoner in Dissidia would be... novel. Fran would be out, simply because there is already a Dragoon there.

From FF10 Yuna is a BIG candidate right now, and the only other one that would really fit is Auron.

So the FF Ladies are holding all the big chances this time.

[bluestarultor]

4, 7, 8 and 12 are out. Out of 10 we have 6 games left. 13 is also Out (i would bet) so now we have 5.

I would bet 11 ain't getting one. So now we have 4.

So...
FF5 - Lenna or Faris. Most Likely. I wouldn't bet on Galuf and Krike.
FF6 - Any character that ain't Setzer from KH ould do
FF9 - Garnet, Eiko or Maybe Fran Freya
FF10 - Yuna or Maybe Auron

Now, From FF5 I would bet on Faris. It would just be an Awesome addition.

From FF6, it really is anyone's guess... but if Doudecim is playing with character memories and mixing heroes and Villains, Celes and Shadow would fit right.

From FF9... it's actually a hard choice. You have 2 Summoners, Eiko and Garnet. In gameplay they would pretty much be the same (i wouldn't be surprised if One was the Alt Costume of the other) but playing a Summoner in Dissidia would be... novel. Fran would be out, simply because there is already a Dragoon there.

From FF10 Yuna is a BIG candidate right now, and the only other one that would really fit is Auron.

So the FF Ladies are holding all the big chances this time.

You have terrible taste. :P


With how insanely popular Gilgamesh is (seriously, he has more appearances than Cloud, counting Dissidia), there's no reason for him not to be the new FFV rep.

With how MASSIVELY popular Vivi is (he scored in the top ten video game characters ever and wipes out polls in both America and Japan), there's pretty much no way he won't get into this, either, unless it's because of Beatrix. If Yuna gets in (as rumor has it), Garnet has no chance.

[Bells]

Gilgamesh would be a Decent addition to a villain roster (specially since the guy is not really a villain 100%) Vivi i could see, he would play somewhat like Terra, while Gilgamesh would be more Akin to Bartz

[Flarecobra]

Well, since Gilgy is a summon in Dissida....

[bluestarultor]

Well, since Gilgy is a summon in Dissida....

He may be upgraded into a playable character, though. Nomura's on record saying he'd like to.

Duodecim's story is going to put a heavy focus on explaining what happened to everyone not in Dissidia. Gilgy sacrificing himself to become a summon would fit that.

[Squall Leonhart]

So, the Jump Festa Trailer is out (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3FoJWBPLzM&feature=autofb). Nothing we don't know of already, though we do get a glance at the mentioned feet indicating the inclusion of Yuna.

[POS Industries]

Yeah, there was pretty much no one else that could have been but Yuna.

[Flarecobra]

Yep. The long skirt pretty much proves it.

[Bells]

Also Gilgamesh showed up as a Summon in that Trailer. So, he is out?

Also, if you take a cue from the first Dissidia Jump Trailer, when that one was out wasn't the full roster already known? I'm starting to believe that Yuna will be the last character out and the other ones just might be DLC...

It would be a way for Squeenix to Cash in a bit more, adding more characters without having to add story for them.

[bluestarultor]

Also Gilgamesh showed up as a Summon in that Trailer. So, he is out?

Also, if you take a cue from the first Dissidia Jump Trailer, when that one was out wasn't the full roster already known? I'm starting to believe that Yuna will be the last character out and the other ones just might be DLC...

It would be a way for Squeenix to Cash in a bit more, adding more characters without having to add story for them.

Actually, I think what you saw was Brynhildr. Although I guess they somehow managed to cram the FIRST Dissidia into the UMD along with 012, because Nomura just said in an interview that the story and chess board would be making a return in addition to everything we've heard about. It makes me wonder just what they cut to make the room. Unless he was misunderstood somehow, we can probably expect to see a loss of battle lines, lower-res textures, possibly fewer polygons, and/or procedurally-generated terrain. We do know some of the existing graphics have been changed, but how so has thus far been vague. I wouldn't be at all shocked if they cut some corners there.

[Bells]

I think they just managed to streamline the story, so instead of playing the same Story 10 times with repeating and connected Scenes replayed from various viewpoints, Plus Shade Impulse, Plus Inward Chaos, it will probably be more group based Scenes, less cutscenes overall and more writen text.

[Donomni]

One thing I'm pretty certain of is that they're not using any detailed models for anything like CSs so they can save space.

It's the only explanation I can think of for not including any such high-quality CS models, especially since we know it's possible due to KH: Birth by Sleep.

Of course, now that I've mentioned it, something stupid like "SORA IN DISSIDIA" will actual happen. Ugh.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

One thing I'm pretty certain of is that they're not using any detailed models for anything like CSs so they can save space.

It's the only explanation I can think of for not including any such high-quality CS models, especially since we know it's possible due to KH: Birth by Sleep.

Of course, now that I've mentioned it, something stupid like "SORA IN DISSIDIA" will actual happen. Ugh.I... would kind of welcome that with open arms if they threw him in as a DLC character for fun.

[mudah.swf]

Don't get your hopes up, Square haven't actually used the internet functions of the PSP yet, and I doubt they'll start now. (AdHoc Party don't count). I still think that this game would be somewhat better suited to a console release, especially since Square apparently want to get all of the first game in? Can't help but think that something's going to end up horribly half-arsed if so.

[bluestarultor]

Don't get your hopes up, Square haven't actually used the internet functions of the PSP yet, and I doubt they'll start now. (AdHoc Party don't count). I still think that this game would be somewhat better suited to a console release, especially since Square apparently want to get all of the first game in? Can't help but think that something's going to end up horribly half-arsed if so.

The new story is only supposed to account for 15 hours of play. That's... not much compared to the original.

[POS Industries]

Iespecially since Square apparently want to get all of the first game in?
That was, I believe, a gross misinterpretation. All of the features of the first game are being included, not the entire first game itself.

[mudah.swf]

Well that makes it better then. I'm a bit worried still that Square are trying to cram TOO much into one UMD, but I'm sure they'll pull it off somehow.

[Kim]

they'll pull it off somehow.

Mandatory install!

[POS Industries]

Mandatory install!
...I actually see this happening.

[Kerensky287]

....How would that free up space on the disk drive?

[EVILNess]

Well, it's called compression. Look at the size of a game on a disc and then after you install it. For example, I have No One Lives forever on this CD in front of me, on disc it is 700 MB, but on my hard-drive it is 1.02 GB.

Also, installing really helps with load times.

[Kim]

....How would that free up space on the disk drive?

Gnomes.

[Locke cole]

Yeah. Installing worked wonders for Kingdom Hearts: Birth By Sleep's load times (though I'll bet that if I'd had room for the full install, I wouldn't have had to wait five seconds every time I D-Linked).

[bluestarultor]

Yuna's officially confirmed!

http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/3961/18moay1c435.jpg


It seems she'll have the ability to summon her Aeons.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Ah so they went with FFX Yuna.

[bluestarultor]

Ah so they went with FFX Yuna.

Betting her alts will be Gunner and Songstress, though.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Probably. It'd be neat to be able to switch into Gunner.

[bluestarultor]

Probably. It'd be neat to be able to switch into Gunner.

Actually, on closer inspection, they DO have a simple recolor to work with, which is actually... somewhat disappointing. I mean, Gunner and Songstress are close enough in basic design that I think the same model could be used for both and reskinned in a pinch, but they'll probably honor Amano's work and use the one interpretation he drew of her in a different color. (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/File:Amano-TidusYuna.jpg) So she'll probably have pink sleeves, blue sleeves, and Gunner, which is a bit disappointing, because, really, it would make more visual sense for her to be in her Songstress, since all the mics are already on sticks. (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/File:Ffx2-songstress.jpg)

I mean it's possible they'll use her Songstress just to preserve the animations, but Gunner is her default and I think they might have that.



EDIT: New info!

http://www.siliconera.com/2011/01/11/yuna-dual-wields-summon-monsters-in-dissidia-012duodecim-final-fantasy/

Apparently, Yuna will control not one, but TWO Aeons at once, and her EX Burst will involve her throwing all of them at the enemy in succession.

[Donomni]

I gotta say, if you're gonna just use one thing from X-2, and I mean literally just one thing, dual-wielding works!

Seriously, two summons at once? Holy shit.

[bluestarultor]

Just heard some more interesting info. Apparently, Square is, in fact, trying to fix their past mistakes to make the game more accessible to everyone. Just got word that there will be an "RPG Mode" in the battle system which aims to let new players get used to the system in stages. The mode will handle your movement and lock-ons for you and let you focus on attacking and timing things. The camera is also somehow freed up by this, so you won't have to worry about that, either. All other functions are still left to the player, including your EX, attacking, defending, etc.


Source: http://www.joystiq.com/2010/09/18/dissidia-012-duodecim-final-fantasy-preview-a-sensible-sequel/

[Donomni]

Didn't they already have that for the first game? I'm pretty certain they did.

[Ryong]

Didn't they already have that for the first game? I'm pretty certain they did.

I guess it'll suck less.

[krogothwolf]

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4605/level2oc.png - I totally forget what this level is!

Judging by the look, and the OC after 2, I'm guessing Orphan's Cradle.

[mudah.swf]

http://i52.tinypic.com/2up7bb6.jpg Fighter's NES alt ingame.

[Donomni]

Holy crap Gilgamesh. I would not be surprised if he's aware he's in a fighting game.

So I guess there's no Chaos character at all for XI, at the moment.

I wonder how exactly Prishe will play like, though. I mean, she's a Monk-type like Tifa, except she has healing/holy magic. They might emphasize that to keep her from being too similar.

[Kerensky287]

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/784/vaano.png - Vaan has a shirt!

Vaan's FFTA-2 costume! This is very good news. I am celebrating.

[Locke cole]

That Exdeath. Extremely freaky, and his EX mode managed to work in Neo Exdeath. I love it.

[bluestarultor]

More info out, guys!

Gilgamesh and Prishe are in. We'll probably be seeing the trailer in a few days to a week, due to Square having made it a private showing again. Gilgy for sure is on the Chaos team.

Also, Aeris is in. Not as a playable character, but as a bonus Assist character for people who shell out ~$3 to download the demo coming out, which is, of course, only available in Japan. Downloading said demo doesn't let you see her in action, but it will unlock her when the full version comes out.

I guess it's good to be born Japanese. I really hope there's some way for the rest of us to get all this shiny stuff, like the costumes and Aeris.



EDIT: Trailer's up! Get it while it lasts! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TIRGNmp0fp8



Edit bump: Also, PICS!

http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/5199/exdeath.png - Neo Exdeath!
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/7338/firion3rd.png - Firion's Amano art!
http://img72.imageshack.us/img72/8800/garlandaltex.png - Garland's Amano art!
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/4052/kuja3rd.png - Kuja's Amano art!
http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/529/tifacowgirl.png - cowgirl Tifa!
http://img641.imageshack.us/img641/3039/lagunax.png - adult Laguna!
http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2370/zidane3rd.png - Zidane in his Knights of Pluto disguise!
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/9558/yunao.png - Yuna Amano recolor and wedding dress!
http://img130.imageshack.us/img130/2479/shantotto3rd.png - Shantotto Scholar!
http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/784/vaano.png - Vaan has a shirt!
http://img824.imageshack.us/img824/2664/lightninga.png - Lightning Guardian Corps uniform!
http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/6735/emperorexmode.png - something for the Emperor's EX!
http://img827.imageshack.us/img827/6239/wol3rd.png - IT'S FIGHTER McWARRIOR! :D
http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/2264/jechtex.png - Purple Jecht EX!
http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/1068/emperorz.png - Emperor from the PS version!
http://img831.imageshack.us/img831/9043/firion3rdex.png - EX for Firion 3!
http://img811.imageshack.us/img811/9437/kain.png - traveler Kain!
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/599/bartz.png - Freelancer Bartz!
http://img209.imageshack.us/img209/4952/golbezr.png - After Years Golbez (EX?)!
http://i443.photobucket.com/albums/qq156/DrakeClawfang/BlueTerra.png - Blue Esper Terra!
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4605/level2oc.png - I totally forget what this level is!
http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/3599/level3ct.png - Crystal Tower!
http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/6900/level4pv.png - Prima Vista!

[POS Industries]

Better quality trailer vid is up. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcYRcMJ3MWM)

Dissidia Prologus is currently only available on the Japanese PSN, yes, but S-E trademarked the name in North America and Europe some months ago (http://www.siliconera.com/2010/10/29/dissidia-duodecim-prologus-trademark-dramatically-appears/), so odds are good we'll be getting the demo in English soon enough, hopefully with all the additional goodies.

On a personal note, it looks like Kefka's attacks are moving a lot faster in this one. This pleases me.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Loving it more now. :)

Damn so many good games to get and 2011 only just got started.

[Locke cole]

Judging by the look, and the OC after 2, I'm guessing Orphan's Cradle.

TIME TRAVELING POST!

[Doc ock rokc]

On a personal note, it looks like Kefka's attacks are moving a lot faster in this one. This pleases me.

Exdeath is also a Lot faster in this one. Not by much but it's noticeable.

Seph also doesn't seem to have the pause after attacks (yay)

[Locke cole]

I heard that Shantotto's Blizzard spell tracks the enemy now.

Yay!

[Ryong]

Hey guys, I got a hold of some of the changes to current characters, showed up on gamefaqs.

Warrior of Light
+Ultimate Shield has decent tracking and good wall rush capabilities
+Shield of Light can aim Up/Down
+Shining Wave tracks upwards
+White Fang has increased range/less cooldown
+Sword Thrust has slight vertical tracking
+Aerial Dayflash
-Dayflash initiates chase now, lost wall rush

Garland
+Earthquake wall rushes more
+Flare is good, has a large hitbox and punishes dodges well
+Bardiche is faster
+Twist drill is faster
+Round Edge (sword) lost wallrush property, now starts chase
+Able to move A LOT during Round Edge
+Garland moves towards opponent during Tsunami startup
+Lighting BRV attack is cancelable via attacking after the bolts come out
-Lightning attack is still bad
-Twinswords still have an awkward hitbox
-Highbringer tracking nerf
-No more combos
-Blaze still bad
-Chain Cast is the same

Firion
+Lord of Arms is amazing
+Straight Arrow is extremely fast and Guard Crushes
+Rope Knife goes up
+New Brave finishers: punch, sword/bow combo, and three hit axe rush
+Capable of following up with finishers even though initial hit whiffs. Finishers have mid-attack priority and can cancel out some melee
+Able to chain 3 air spells in a row (For example Fire -> Fire -> Blizzard or Blizzard -> Fire -> Thunder)
+Fire moves faster, Blizzard initiates chase, Thunder wall rushes
+Double Trouble wall rushes at a more downward angle
+Lance combo has more absorb
+Swordstrike wallrushes down, both forms
+Ground Weaponsmaster, faster than DFF
-Rope knife blockable
-More lag after Shield Bash whiff

Emperor
+Ground Light crest shoots up
+Mines are faster
+absorb increased
+Air mines start chase
+Flare wall rushes down
+Less cooldown on attacks
+Starfall charge blocks magic
-Can dodge out of Melancholy Prison after it activates

Onion Knight
+Air brave has more horizontal tracking
+Blade Torrent has more tracking
+Has a stat buffing attack with low cooldown
+Blizzard has tracking and range increase
+Melee attacks are much faster and have less cooldown

Cloud of Darkness
+New Tentacle attack: Tentacles of Hate; ground version and spirals around her with guard stagger properties
+Two new projectile ender BRV attacks. One slow that guard staggers and multi-hits like Paladin Arts, and two small that run on the floor
+Fusillade has guard crush
+Wide Angle has a huge hitbox now and is faster
+Feint tracks at a higher angle now
-0-Form tracks slower

Cecil
+Dark Lance guard crushes at close range
+Darkfall guard staggers
+Lightning Rise guard staggers
+Valiant blow has slight vertical tracking
+Last hit of Dark step guard staggers
+Radiant Wings has improved tracking
+Paladin Force back to JP DFF range
+Soul Eater increased range
+Dark Cannon tracks vertically now
+Shadowbringer HP is VERY fast
+Saint's Fall also adjusts altitude before attacking. Has NA DFF tracking
+New Paladin HP attack: Light Thruster; single pure HP energy blade similar to Innocence
-Dark Flame tracking down

Golbez
+Sector Ray is extremely good (fast and low cooldown)
+Gravity Force tracks alot more
+Gravity Force guard staggers on magic and melee hit
+Initial ball has Guard Crush
+AERIAL SECTOR RAY!
+AERIAL ATTACK SYSTEM!
+Brave chains on systems send you farther away
+HP chains send you farther away
+Genesis Rock has increased tracking (Rocks will always go in the direction of opponent)

Bartz
+Has Dark Flame HP
+Has Paladin Cecil's Light Thruster HP
+Has Laguna's Ragnarok Blade HP
+Has Ifrit HP (Yuna); summons three fire pillars in a straight line
+2 new brave attacks: a combination of Lightning Smash Upper + Vaan's Switch Katana and Kain/Lightning
+Slidehazzard has been changed, the finisher is now the last hit of Kain's Celestial Shooter (goes up)
+Climbarrel has been changed, finisher is now Tifa's Beat Rush
+Paladin Force increased range
+Holy is faster
-tracking has been nerfed

Exdeath
+Swords Dance staggers on block
+Attacks after guards are VERY fast
+Black Hole has high absorb property
+Highguard turns to face opponent
+Reverse Polarity cancelable into BRV and HP attacks
+Almagest cancelable with attacks/block
+Maelstrom has infinite range, can move while casting
-long casting time
-Highguard priority down
-Delta Attack does not track

Terra
+Fire is very fast now and has good tracking. Chains to Firaga
+Thundara is alot faster
+Blizzard combo is faster
-Longer cooldown for Meltdown

Kefka
+Shatter spray staggers guard

-it still goes back at him
+Ultima has increased range
-explosion is only 1 hit
-able to deflect the initial ball back at Kefka
+WWF has an animation change
+Forsaken Null is alot faster
+can move during animation
+wall rushes on a wall (not ground)
+Trine comes out faster
-does not stay on the map as long
+Havoc Wing has increased horizontal range
+Twisty Turny Blizzaga has a huge speed increase, after landing it instantly goes after opponent
+Thunder spells track better and move faster
-Meteor doesn't bounce
-EX Mode Shatter Spray, shots take longer to redirect at opponent
-Can't charge Hyperdrive forever

Cloud
+Sonic Break has absorb
+Slash Blow has absorb
+Blade Beam has increased range and melee hit guard staggers
+Fire hitstun increased
+Ground Meteorain tracks opponent
+Aerial Fang wall rushes and is faster
+Cross Slash tracks after each slash
-doesn't start chase anymore
-less vertical tracking
-Lost all his old combos
-Air Meteorain doesn't track opponent
-Braver range reduced

Sephiroth
+Moment is very fast
+Able to DC out of sudden cruelty
+Scintilla is faster
+Shadowflare builds meter fast
+Godspeed/Fervent Blow are faster
-Reduced stun time for Sudden Cruelty (able to DC but unable to combo)
-Still doesn't have combos
-Lost Hell's Gate Cancel
-Heartless Angel cancel lag increased

Squall
+Aerial Circle/Fated Circle have absorb properties
+Last hit of Fusillade guard staggers
+Mystic Flurry has a big damage buff, mostly the last hit
-Beat Fang got a range, speed, and tracking nerf.

Ultimecia
+Shockwave Pulsar stick to the floors for a bit then explodes
+has absorb effect
+Knight's Arrow is more focused
-Charged Knight's Arrow only shoots out 1 arrow
+each arrow has enough stun time for the next one to hit
+Knight's Sword is faster startup and increased stun time (all hits will link)
+Charged Knight's Sword has a faster startup and more hits

Zidane
+Booster 8 able to combo into attacks if it connects
+guard staggers on block- able to do another attack after guard stagger
+quite fast
+Tidal Flame moves slower and guard crushes
-unable to dc if it misses
-Free Energy range nerfed
-Shift Break hitbox nerfed

Kuja
+Able to move during Seraphic Star
+Seraphic has more tracking
+Brave attacks wallrush more easily
-Burst Energy has a vertical tracking nerf

Tidus
+Has Cut & Run in the air
+Fullslide/Sonic Buster has increased tracking
+Blitzball guard staggers
-Slice & Dice has less hits

Jecht
+Increased vertical tracking on Jecht stream
+Uncharged Jecht Blade comes out fast
+Slightly less recovery on Ultimate Jecht Shot
+Jecht Beam chainable after Neutral air combo
+Level 2 charges guard break
+Can continue attacking indefinitely and can full combo once he successfully hits
+Charge is a LOT faster (MAYBE 25 frames to charge max?)
+Charge increases range to roughly that of what a dodge would give you on stream
+Full charge Rush gains notable extra distance
+Charged attacks seem to eat through all projectiles and can carry through/clash with a lot of HP attacks
+Dodge cancelling can be done earlier on all moves and all moves seem to have less recovery
+Jecht Block on ground doesn't stun you when successful
+Jecht Block recovery in air seems reduced
+Jecht Beam has about 45 degrees up and down in terms of tracking (won't track to enemies above/below - they basically need to be on the same level)
+Jecht Block SEEMS to have more active frames
+Combos execute faster (and require slightly faster input)
- Lost all wall rush combos
- Unchaged Stream/Rush lost range

Shantotto
+Stun allows you to combo into her other moves
+Ground Melee is faster and sends opponent very far away- able to continue without hitting
+Less Brave required for advanced magic
+Retribution has a different hitbox (it will hit once when thrown forward and once when it comes back)
+Retribution guard staggers
+Retribution tracks opponent
+HP's very fast now and have changes to hit animation
+Blizzard tracks opponent
-HP's still blockable
-Bio gets reflected back at Shantotto when blocked
-Thunder doesn't wall rush anymore
-Bio steals brave at quicker intervals (once every second) and only lasts about 10 seconds
-Level 1 magic still blockable

Gabranth
+Circle of Judgement hits multiple times outside of EX mode
+New ground brave attack in EX mode
+Able to cancel any attack into EX charge
+Gains EX extremely fast
+Bigger hitbox for Hatred
-Dual Rend is only 2 hits
-No explosion unless Guilt connects


New abilities:
Ground Dash
Assist Lock On
Assist Up Dash: with this equipped, your will gain assist gauge when doing any dash to the opponent. Won't work on dashing towards EX core. Different from gaining by attacks, this effect will not stop the "S&L effect" of the assist. So by the time you stop dashing, you will immediately start losing assist "energy".

New gameplay mechanics:
+Assists save you/allow you to combo
+Chase gives good EX and some free hits
-Chase is very fast, making it difficult to react
-Pretty much all DC combos are removed
-Harder to gain EX (except Gabranth)

[Flarecobra]

It appears they mostly left Squall alone... And man, I think Golbez is going to be a bigger pain in the ass to fight for me.

[POS Industries]

-Pretty much all DC combos are removed
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/highfive.jpg

[Bells]

at this point is pretty obvious that there is going to be a Role reversal between Jecth and Tidus... but on the pieces of the Opening that show up at the end of the trailer, i THINK that i see Jecht on the Cosmos side but not Tidus... to the left of Lighting and Yuna

[Kerensky287]

Exdeath
+Swords Dance staggers on block
+Attacks after guards are VERY fast
+Black Hole has high absorb property
+Highguard turns to face opponent
+Reverse Polarity cancelable into BRV and HP attacks
+Almagest cancelable with attacks/block
+Maelstrom has infinite range, can move while casting
-long casting time
-Highguard priority down
-Delta Attack does not track

Holy shit guys! Did you know that you can cancel Almagest with any single Guard attack Exdeath has? It's true!

EDIT: I mean, remember when Almagest was that one attack you could counter with friggin' Rough Divide after the attack started? Well, if you try, you'll get your ass countered by Omni Guard now. Show's over guys, put Exdeath on top tier right underneath Kain with his retarded High Jump and Golbez with his hilarious Genesis Rock.

[Doc ock rokc]

'Bout fucking time. Exdeath was the lowest of the low before the joke character that everyone grinded off of. Now he is going to be tough to fight in the right hands.
ALL HAIL THE TREE!

[Locke cole]

In the hands of the computer, yah he was a joke.

But I thought he was good anyway in a good human player's hands.

But yeah, Almagest becoming the ultimate move to bait guardable moves will be fun.

[POS Industries]

He's very strong in the hands of a skilled human opponent. Not the most versatile, but still hard to overcome if you had the patience to deal with him. Or were playing Zidane, Kuja, or Ultimecia.

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/6317/matchup.png

He's at least high-mid tier, regardless.

EDIT: Demo soundtrack rips are go! Available now at your local youtube!

Blinded By Light (XIII) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8MVS27Ff7Uc)
Summoned Beast Battle (X) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NAvXMJfzZEI)
Battle 1 (III) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THsnwdDrvyo)
Force Your Way (VIII) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Io9Nh52E7hA)
Pandemonium (II) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=73FvqdOByIc)
Battle 1 (IV) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rPKbSJ15cZc)
Saber's Edge (XIII) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=74qesh3bTSA)
JENOVA (VII) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2tcg_SwqDQo)
Chaos Shrine (I) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SjFt4h5CJjc)
Neo-Exdeath (V) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9e6hurDCpnI)
Grand Cross (IX) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cmf7VqnmYp8)
Esper Battle (XII) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZSW6IcACa6g)
Battle (VI) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plnPdViPgpA)

Some pretty good arrangements here for the most part. JENOVA was enjoyable and FF4's Battle 1 has definitely been my favorite. FF6's Battle was odd to me, though. I could kind of see it working as a more Kefka-inspired version of the theme, though.

[Kerensky287]

Wow, I must have NO idea how balance works because apparently Sephiroth is higher than both Jecht and Golbez.

I mean... fucking GOLBEZ. Even when he misses you he still hits you and then he uses Cosmic Ray to fuck your shit. AND NOW GENESIS ROCK HAS EXTRA TRACKING.

The saddest part of looking at that chart is knowing that they haven't really done a thing to Onion Knight, and the only benefit they've provided Shantotto is that Stun actually does something now. Meanwhile in Kefkaland, guess who can now move during Forsaken Null? (edit: shut up I haven't played the english version in ages ;_; )

[Locke cole]

The saddest part of looking at that chart is knowing that they haven't really done a thing to Onion Knight,

Increased distance and damage on his physical braves, extra tracking on his magical Braves, and a self-stat-boosting move does not constitute "nothing"

[Kerensky287]

I guess you're right, but... it doesn't FEEL all that different.

Like, if you watch Sephy in action, you can tell that his cooldowns are shorter. Fighting Exdeath in Dissidia 2 is like comparing night and day. Meanwhile, OK is still very predictable and not that much of a challenge to fight at all. Even Shantotto's seen some improvements; Stun actually gives her openings, and all of her spells seem to come out faster.

[POS Industries]

Wow, I must have NO idea how balance works because apparently Sephiroth is higher than both Jecht and Golbez.

I mean... fucking GOLBEZ. Even when he misses you he still hits you and then he uses Cosmic Ray to fuck your shit. AND NOW GENESIS ROCK HAS EXTRA TRACKING.
But Golbez's strongest moves are ground-based (meaning mostly useless in the original) and he has limited ranged capability, and most of his moves are pretty heavily telegraphed, so once you know how to avoid them, it's very easy to see them coming and do so.

As for Jecht, he has no ranged capabilities whatsoever, which means most casters are able to have their way with him, too.

Sephiroth, meanwhile, doesn't boast that impressive a moveset, but his capabilities are much more universally useful, resulting in less characters acting as hard counters against him than Golbez or Jecht.

The saddest part of looking at that chart is knowing that they haven't really done a thing to Onion Knight, and the only benefit they've provided Shantotto is that Stun actually does something now.
Actually, the speed, tracking, and hitbox changes to so many of her moves coupled with her being able to combo off of stun potentially makes her quite useful now. Bear in mind, Shantotto had some of the most flat-out powerful moves in the game. The problem was that she couldn't actually land any of them.

Now she can.

Meanwhile in Kefkaland, guess who can now move during Forgotten Null?
Forsaken Null, and yeah. With that and the speed increase it was given, it looks like it's not just going to be the situational flashy move I break out when I'm feeling cocky/accidentally hit the wrong button.

[Doc ock rokc]

As for Jecht, he has no ranged capabilities whatsoever, which means most casters are able to have their way with him, too.Have you seen Jecht Block and Jecht Combos? Jecht block is a almost guaranteed reflection back at any spell caster as long as it doesn't have a Defense break he can block it and revers it, so fast spells and those slow tracking spells become his.

Then we have Jecht Combos which allow him to ether chain a bunch of his Brave streams together or chain a brave in with a HP attack. This means that Once Jecht hits your are going to get hurt. Combine that with counter attack and Counter-counter attack and he becomes a Crit magnet with massive chaining ability. the caster would have to be fast to take him down (meaning Terra is the only one that can beat him regularly. fallowed closely by Kuja if he gets his attacks in order and Globez if he is tactical)

[Locke cole]

I dunno, man. I remember trying Ultimecia, and every time I fought a computer Jecht, it was no contest. He simply couldn't break through constant ranged pressure like that.

[Doc ock rokc]

I dunno, man. I remember trying Ultimecia, and every time I fought a computer Jecht, it was no contest. He simply couldn't break through constant ranged pressure like that.

Comp jecht is rather retarded and is Designed to have some type of flaw in its stratagy. a human Jecht would be abusing his close quarters combat and juggling to keep you from getting ranged pressure. Jecht+Omni dash+Jecht combos= Dead casters.

[Ryong]

It seems like no one was ever playing the same game. AI was absurdly dumb, but fuck if it didn't have 100% perfect timing for everything. Jecht Block was incredible.

And yes, I'd like to agree with Kerensky: From everything I've seen, Exdeath is now absurd. He chains his teleport into anything he wants, his guards are instantaneous and let him dodge freely whenever he feels like it.

[Kerensky287]

I have faith that POS knows what he's talking about because I have found his Dissidia videos on youtube completely at random.

New Kefka is hilariously powerful, though. Shatter Blizzaga's massive ice chunk now guard staggers, which - despite still bouncing back and hitting Kefka - makes it very difficult to counterattack. Also, Havoc Wing has increased horizontal tracking, which means my old standby of just walking the hell away from it isn't nearly as reliable.

Lightning's paradigm shifts are truly beautiful things. Commando is straight-up attack power, which kind of feels like playing a slower, weaker Squall, Ravager has support abilities that feel like a combination of Kefka and Emperor, and Medic is just wonderful because if your reflexes are quick you can give yourself a jumpstart of ~100 brave every time your opponent gets knocked away. Or blinks. Too bad her HP attacks are trashy, though...

And as I said before, Kain's standard Jump attack is fairly godlike. It attacks on the way up, attacks on the way down, has a bit of AoE, and when fully charged it has mindblowing accuracy. I'm sure with a little experience it'll be somewhat more obvious what the timing is for dodging properly, but even the AI has trouble escaping from it a lot of the time.

[POS Industries]

Have you seen Jecht Block and Jecht Combos? Jecht block is a almost guaranteed reflection back at any spell caster as long as it doesn't have a Defense break he can block it and revers it, so fast spells and those slow tracking spells become his.

Then we have Jecht Combos which allow him to ether chain a bunch of his Brave streams together or chain a brave in with a HP attack. This means that Once Jecht hits your are going to get hurt. Combine that with counter attack and Counter-counter attack and he becomes a Crit magnet with massive chaining ability. the caster would have to be fast to take him down (meaning Terra is the only one that can beat him regularly. fallowed closely by Kuja if he gets his attacks in order and Globez if he is tactical)
Oh, don't get me wrong, a good Jecht player is a sight to behold. The problem is that an equally good player of a great deal of other characters have the tools to deal with him without much difficulty. Combine that with the fact that, for Jecht to work, he requires precision timing to carry out both his combos and blocking (good luck pulling that off reliably with the PSP's shitty wifi capabilities) and Jecht's usefulness gets hit pretty hard.

His strengths are impressive, but they don't make up for his weaknesses.

I have faith that POS knows what he's talking about because I have found his Dissidia videos on youtube completely at random.
I'm a competent if somewhat predictable Kefka player, and one woefully out of practice at that, but thank you.

[Locke cole]

So, some info on Gilgamesh, thanks to people hacking that Prologus thing.

Apparently, Gilgamesh fights by drawing new weapons during battle. However, it's kinda random, and not even Gilgamesh knows what weapon he's getting next. I'm guessing that the really good ones are really good, to balance out the bad ones.

His EX mode has him choose one of eight weapons when he enters the mode, and that changes his EX Mode ability accordingly. It can be:

Excalibur All damage is multiplied by 2

Excalipoor All damage dealt is reduced to 1

Naginata Equips a spear with incredible reach/range

Masamune Generates a lot of EX Force

Genji's Katana Depletes opponents EX Gauge

Zantetsu Sword Quick Draw style of attack that can instantly cause Brave Break

Battle Axe (awesome) A weapon with a wide range of damage, if lucky can hit for massive damage.

Chicken Knife Lower HP higher damage will be dealt (by user)


So, either you get one of seven extremely useful powerups.... or you get Excalipoor.

[Doc ock rokc]

I can see someone cherry tapping with excalipoor.

[Locke cole]

I wouldn't be brave enough. I'd probably just go straight into a completely undignified EX Burst.

You know what's funny? Gilgamesh's Chicken Knife actually works more like the Valiant Knife.

Kind of like how Bartz uses the Brave Blade despite spending his entire story arc sneaking and running.

[Bells]

I have the Prologus right here with me.

You can play a series of 5 Lvl 20 Battles, or a few (i think also 5 couldn't finish) at level 50.

You can also play a small part of the story, just a 4 battle scene with Lighting. Her story portion has her Travelling with Kain, Jecht and WoL.

Jecht for all intents is a good guy. He acts and talks differently thing time around, at first sight, he is 100% Cosmos. Also, confirming that Cloud is with Chaos. He is the last enemy of the story portion of the demo

Lighting is Awesome to play, her 3 roles are basicaly a short ranged brawler, really fast but her Brave attacks are short ranged and the HP attacks have a small delay. She has also a magic role with very slow, but quite long lasting and powerfull magic attacks, and Last, her heal role actually lets her build up brave on the fly.

Kain is also avaliable in the Prologus demo, and he has some quirks too... but dude is awesome.

He is for all intents and purposes a realy vertical/horizontal fighter. Very closed ranged (surprisingly really) His basic Hp attack is a Jump attack that is chargeable AND tracks the enemy somewhat. He also has a Spear tossing attack that has a really short range... weird. And once it hits the enemy there is a second of delay before "bursting" and tossing the enemy away.

His basic Brave combo attack also triggers easy chases, can easily chain for wall rushes.

The demo also lets you use Jecht, Sephiroth, kefka and a couple of other characters from the first game.

But if you play the arcade option you do get to fight all the other characters and they are there to show their new costumes. Saw Bartz (he uses Irvine and Yuna's attacks quite often), Emeperor, Gabranth, Shantoto, Firion, Onion Knight and Zidade. And of course, Cloud. All with their 3rd costumes.

PS: Gabranth still chagers EX at will.

Other changes

Mid Air duel really is MUCH faster, be ready to re-learn that.

Charging Ex takes MUCH longer.

Before a battle there is a screen saying who you are fighting and what map, there is also a "Judge" Option that is not used here.... i got FFTA goosebumps out of that one.

The Prologus also has 57 battlegems you can create, but you can't equip accesories and Equipment. I suspect what you get on the Demo transfers to the final game, like the Aerith assistent.

Also, each character in the demo comes with an Assistant, and i'm not sure if you can change it, but i think you can... each Assist has 4 moves, two ground and two air. Assists can deal Brave attacks (costs 1 Assist bar) or Hp attack (costs 2 Assist bars)

Assists can be blocked and if they get blocked or Countered it gets locked for a few seconds.

UH! Also, now i know how they plan on saving space in the disk, there are Cutscenes rendered with in-game assets with Text but no voices, there is also Voice sequences, but those seem to be only for the major points of the story

If you guys want any other info i can give, let me know!

[Kerensky287]

I have the Prologus right here with me.

You can play a series of 5 Lvl 20 Battles, or a few (i think also 5 couldn't finish) at level 50.

The level 50 arcade set is 30 battles long. Once you finish it, you unlock Cloud for use in the demo. Tifa is his assist character.

Kain is also avaliable in the Prologus demo, and he has some quirks too... but dude is awesome.

He is for all intents and purposes a realy vertical/horizontal fighter. Very closed ranged (surprisingly really) His basic Hp attack is a Jump attack that is chargeable AND tracks the enemy somewhat. He also has a Spear tossing attack that has a really short range... weird. And once it hits the enemy there is a second of delay before "bursting" and tossing the enemy away.

His basic Brave combo attack also triggers easy chases, can easily chain for wall rushes.

Any of his spear-based Brave attacks can be followed up by hitting triangle to airdash toward the enemy as well, making him pretty relentless in combat.

The demo also lets you use Jecht, Sephiroth, kefka and a couple of other characters from the first game.

The characters available in the demo are Lightning, Kain, Warrior of Light (in his Fighter McWarrior costume), Garland, Kefka (in his retarded green suit), Sephiroth, Jecht and eventually Cloud.

But if you play the arcade option you do get to fight all the other characters and they are there to show their new costumes. Saw Bartz (he uses Irvine and Yuna's attacks quite often), Emperor, Gabranth, Shanttoto, Firion, Onion Knight and Zidane. And of course, Cloud. All with their 3rd costumes.

Bartz was using Laguna's moves, not Irvine's. Irvine is not in this game.

But yes, Bartz has new moves that combine aspects of new characters, and some of his old moves were changed up somewhat with moves used by new characters.

Before a battle there is a screen saying who you are fighting and what map, there is also a "Judge" Option that is not used here.... i got FFTA goosebumps out of that one.

The "Judge" line there is probably Cosmos/Chaos judgment, returning from the first Dissidia. I do wonder if they've changed those somewhat; maybe Chaos's thing where the game freezes you when you haven't attacked for a while has been looked at. And by looked at, I mean maybe it fucking works properly now. It apparently considers free airdash to be an "attack", and once in a while it ignores an attack someone is currently performing. I have been frozen mid-Beat Fang before.

Also, each character in the demo comes with an Assistant, and i'm not sure if you can change it, but i think you can... each Assist has 4 moves, two ground and two air. Assists can deal Brave attacks (costs 1 Assist bar) or Hp attack (costs 2 Assist bars)

Assists can be blocked and if they get blocked or Countered it gets locked for a few seconds.

Assists are definitely game-changers, yeah. I'm 99% certain you can change your assistant, but I can't figure out how to do it with the japanese text.

My best assist combo that I've done was as Cloud in Arcade mode. Omnislash v5, then call in Tifa to do an attack with large knockback, teleport after the enemy and do another Omnislash v5, call in Tifa again, then do another Omnislash v5. Then I lost because I was fighting Golbez at the time.

But yes, when your assist character does an attack that would normally lead into a Chase sequence, it gives you a split second to press X, which teleports you next to the opponent for a free hit against them. Obviously this will make some characters more useful assists than others. I do wonder though if you can set which attack your assist character uses...?

[Locke cole]

Here's a question: Is the computer as much of a cheater as it used to be, in terms of blocking and dodging?

[Bells]

To be honest? in this demo it felt really dumbed down. Lvl 50 Zidane wiped the floor with me, but in general i was pretty free to explore each characters attack and even pick how i wanted to finnish the fight.

I think they did this on Purpose so you can explore the Demo more freely.

I did notice that the Ai now goes for the Ex Cores more often


AH! I forgot, i'm not sure if this was a game change, but i was unable to perform any Ex-Traps this time.

As in: Fill your EX Meter, get closer so the opponent hits you, as soon as hi hits you, go into Ex mode to break his combo and stun him for a second, at that time, go for an HP attack and Finnisih it of.

I could not Pull this with 012. Maybe wrong timing? but i did it all the time in Dissidia... When i tried on 012 i was able to break the enemy combo, but as the enemy got stunned so did i! And the Ex meter got Flushed down to empty right on the spot.

[Doc ock rokc]

To be honest? in this demo it felt really dumbed down. Lvl 50 Zidane wiped the floor with me, but in general i was pretty free to explore each characters attack and even pick how i wanted to finnish the fight.

I think they did this on Purpose so you can explore the Demo more freely.

I did notice that the Ai now goes for the Ex Cores more often


AH! I forgot, i'm not sure if this was a game change, but i was unable to perform any Ex-Traps this time.

As in: Fill your EX Meter, get closer so the opponent hits you, as soon as hi hits you, go into Ex mode to break his combo and stun him for a second, at that time, go for an HP attack and Finnisih it of.

I could not Pull this with 012. Maybe wrong timing? but i did it all the time in Dissidia... When i tried on 012 i was able to break the enemy combo, but as the enemy got stunned so did i! And the Ex meter got Flushed down to empty right on the spot.

EXE block has been removed in order to liven up the game. essentually Square thought that people where abusing the EXE block to much.

[POS Industries]

Yeah, EX-guard has been placed with a feature called EX-revenge, which blows your whole gauge in order to slow down your opponent for a few seconds. It's bullshit in it's own way, but still far less broken than just being able to immediately turn around and pull off an HP attack into an EX burst.

[Ryong]

Here's a question: Is the computer as much of a cheater as it used to be, in terms of blocking and dodging?

My last fight on the hard arcade was lv60 Exdeath. I was using lv50 Lightning, and I gotta say it was hard. Really hard. Guy dodged/blocked everything and since now everything he does chains into everything else...

Yeah, EX-guard has been placed with a feature called EX-revenge, which blows your whole gauge in order to slow down your opponent for a few seconds. It's bullshit in it's own way, but still far less broken than just being able to immediately turn around and pull off an HP attack into an EX burst.

It slows down everything, sure, you interrupt, but landing an attack in there isn't exactly easy.

[mudah.swf]

Not that any of this really matters since nobody's gonna take this game seriously outside of Dissidiaforums.com :P

OTOH I wanna see what this Prishe can do.

[Kerensky287]

A match I just had vs Shantotto (as Kain) leads me to believe her Ex Mode benefit may have changed. It used to mean that she retained her Brave after an HP attack, but she landed an Ex Burst on me and her Brave went to zero after the attack that prompted it AND after the burst itself.

It makes sense, considering that they seem to be toning down Ex Mode's benefits in general, and it used to be that a successful HP attack in Ex Mode with at least half the opponent's health in damage was a guaranteed kill. I do wonder what it's been changed to (if at all), though.

Maybe they just made it zero before and after bursts?

[POS Industries]

Not that any of this really matters since nobody's gonna take this game seriously outside of Dissidiaforums.com :P
We are aware that this is not a super deep in-depth serious tournament fighter. We were aware of that long before you posted it a hundred times.

At this point you're just being an annoying dickhole with this stuff. Stop being an annoying dickhole.

A match I just had vs Shantotto (as Kain) leads me to believe her Ex Mode benefit may have changed. It used to mean that she retained her Brave after an HP attack, but she landed an Ex Burst on me and her Brave went to zero after the attack that prompted it AND after the burst itself.

It makes sense, considering that they seem to be toning down Ex Mode's benefits in general, and it used to be that a successful HP attack in Ex Mode with at least half the opponent's health in damage was a guaranteed kill. I do wonder what it's been changed to (if at all), though.

Maybe they just made it zero before and after bursts?
From what I understand, they changed her EX-mode ability to just replenish her brave back to base level in one instantaneous go after hitting an HP attack instead of slowly building back up gradually like it would outside EX mode.

[Grand Master Kickface]

Prishe is the new Final Fantasy XI representative? I wanted it to be a blue crab. :(

[bluestarultor]

Prishe is the new Final Fantasy XI representative? I wanted it to be a blue crab. :(

Prishe was already considered for the last game, but they did Shantotto instead. A lot of the characters they're adding were ones that didn't make the cut last time and a couple favorites, like Tifa and Gilgy.

Nobody can figure out where Laguna came from, though. Not that I'm complaining. I adore the guy. I just don't know if he has a real fan base.

[Bells]

Dude was a more compeling protagonist than squall...

[Donomni]

Prishe is the new Final Fantasy XI representative? I wanted it to be a blue crab. :(

Dissidia cannot possibly handle the unstoppable might of Bubbly Bernie, you fool!

[bluestarultor]

Dude was a more compeling protagonist than squall...

Action Gamemaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheetahmen#The_Cheetahmen) was a more compelling protagonist than Squall.

I mean, really, you could make a game centered around a stationary sandwich with no text or speech and it would compare favorably.


Back on topic, I'm waiting until they make Dissidia 001 where every character from the series is playable, if only because that's probably the point where they'll finally add several favorites of mine, such as Cait Sith and Red XIII.

[Ryong]

Back on topic, I'm waiting until they make Dissidia 001 where every character from the series is playable, if only because that's probably the point where they'll finally add several favorites of mine, such as Cait Sith and Red XIII.

And then hell froze over.

[bluestarultor]

And then hell froze over.

No, it's just 20 years from now and all the data is stored in the cloud, the handheld has 3D sound, and the graphics are projected straight onto your retinas.



In other actual news, we know a bit more about Yuna now. Her EX Mode will allow her to double summon and all her attacks so far are her Aeons' normal special attacks for her Bravery attacks, plus Energy Blast for good measure, and her HP attacks are all their Overdrives, minus Energy Blast.

To save space and loading mid-battle due to having to whip out more than one extra model, all of her Aeons are only half or less shown, with them poking out of summoning emblems to perform their attacks.

Yojimbo, Anima, and the Magus Sisters have yet to be shown and probably aren't in due to the above.

Also, Nomura made a judgment call on Yuna's design. There was question as to whether they'd do X or X-2 Yuna, and Nomura decided to stick with X Yuna, no exceptions, since that's how she appeared in the main series. As such, rather than one of her alts being Gunner, Songstress, or White Mage, Yuna has the opportunity to fight in her wedding dress (which may have already been said).

[Kerensky287]

So apparently there's an Event Designer mode that lets you put little chat sections around setpiece battles, sort of like a build-your-own-crappy-Campaign. You can also send these to people if you have their friend codes.

I give it... 3 hours after the game's release before somebody makes an event that ends with the phrase "AND THEN THEY PORKED."

EDIT: Oh wait, it might get leaked. In that case, I give it... negative several days.

[Teal Mage]

Nobody can figure out where Laguna came from, though. Not that I'm complaining. I adore the guy. I just don't know if he has a real fan base.

Considering Vaan scored a place, I'm thinking that a character's Fanbase isn't the main consideration here, Blues. Not sure how they're selecting the newcomers precisely, but going purely on popularity to try and guess at who gets in probably isn't going to get you very far.

Main Character status seems the largest indicator to me, really. Its kinda hard to see much of a pattern beyond that, in fact. I guess they might have selected the new people based on how interesting their interactions with standing playable characters might be? Dunno. Laguna certainly doesn't seem to have much past with Squall, so that might be totally off the mark.

What I'm finding myself most curious about, right now, is whether or not we'll see some characters from the unreleased FF13 Versus or FF13-2 added in to promote interest in the those up-coming games. It worked pretty well for Fire Emblem in Super Smash Brothers, after all.

...also hoping that we don't see anyone from Kingdom Hearts in it. :ohdear:

[Ryong]

Considering Vaan scored a place, I'm thinking that a character's Fanbase isn't the main consideration here, Blues.

You're talking about his popularity outside of Japan, not inside. I wouldn't be so sure he's not popular there.

[EVILNess]

I mean, really, you could make a game centered around a stationary sandwich with no text or speech and it would compare favorably.

Squall wasn't so bad, it's just that he NEVER vocalized his thoughts to the others, therefore robbing us of their remarks and it had the effect of making the whole cast much more bland than they already were.

So he was like a less snarky Phoenix Wright without the amazingly colorful supporting cast.

[POS Industries]

Laguna certainly doesn't seem to have much past with Squall
Aside from being his father, I guess?

[Teal Mage]

You're talking about his popularity outside of Japan, not inside. I wouldn't be so sure he's not popular there.

The worst part of that idea is, it totally sounds like it could really be true.

And that means my opinion of Japan's taste in heroes just dropped. It makes me very sad.

Aside from being his father, I guess?

I can't remember, did they ever interact on screen in any significant way? My memory's a little fuzzy when it comes to everything that happens around the Esthar-and-beyond portion of the game, so maybe I just forgot. But for some reason, I don't even recall Laguna telling Squall he's his dad.

But, like I said, memory's fuzzy around those two. Can't remember them ever talking to one another either, though I'm sure that must have happened at least once. Whether or not the interaction was anything to write home about is another matter, I suppose.

'course, I could probably say the same about Ultimecia, and she's packaged as Squall's counterpart in the original game. Not to mention Warrior of Light, Garland, the Emperor, (probably Cloud of Darkness and a few others) are basically blank slates in their respective games - Dissidia seems very good at making something out of nothing!

[bluestarultor]

On Vaan, a Japanese acquaintance of mine has indicated he's quite popular in Japan and was actually shocked that people elsewhere hate him so much. I had to remind her that things may have been written very differently for other countries, but I never did sit down and compare notes with her on his traits.

[Loyal]

Considering Japan loves Tingle, it's probably safe to say it's just a cultural values thing.

That is to say, what Japan likes in a protagonist isn't likely to be the same as what Americans like in a protagonist.

[POS Industries]

In fact, it's typically going to be the direct opposite.

[Kim]

I don't see what you're problem is Tingle is ~awesome~

[Squall Leonhart]

Action Gamemaster (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheetahmen#The_Cheetahmen) was a more compelling protagonist than Squall.

I mean, really, you could make a game centered around a stationary sandwich with no text or speech and it would compare favorably.[...]
:(

[...]
What I'm finding myself most curious about, right now, is whether or not we'll see some characters from the unreleased FF13 Versus or FF13-2 added in to promote interest in the those up-coming games. It worked pretty well for Fire Emblem in Super Smash Brothers, after all.[...]Considering Yuna's dress sphere/Gunner outfit was left out because it wasn't from the original game, I'm pretty sure they'll keep it strictly XIII only.

Additionally, I think I heard somewhere we wouldn't be getting Kingdom Hearts characters this time around, but don't quote me on that just yet.

[bluestarultor]

:(

Considering Yuna dress sphere/Gunner outfit was left out because it wasn't from the original game, I'm pretty sure they'll keep it strictly XIII only.

Additionally, I think I heard somewhere we wouldn't be getting Kingdom Hearts characters this time around, but don't quote me on that just yet.

Anyone who thinks Disney is letting KH characters into this thing are sorely deluded. It doesn't fit with their sterile-clean image. Also, right on every box, it's labeled (C) Disney, produced by Square, so you can bet the big D has if not total ownership then a larger share of all the characters.

Just because Square would like to use some of them doesn't mean they could ever get a hold of the rights.

[bluestarultor]

As an addendum to my previous post, apparently Dissidia was originally intended to be for KH, but Disney didn't like the idea of pitting their characters all against each other, so, yeah, no KH.



But, for the real reason I'm raising this thread, Square announced that they're going to be doing a character reveal on the day before launch, which translates to 4AM Pacific on a live feed event broadcast through Niko Niko Doga, otherwise known as "like YouTube, but Japanese."

Since Prishe and Gilgy are in, best guess is it'll be an official reveal of Desperado Chaos.

More hopefully, I'd like it to be a reveal of Vivi and/or someone from FF6.

[Locke cole]

Dammit. The thing's so close to launch, and I just find myself wanting more characters. Am I a bad person for that?

By the way, it should be noted that a few days ago, someone found out what some of the new exclusive equipment is. There was one set of weapons that didn't go to any revealed character, and doesn't sound like anything I've ever seen.

Unless you guys know what character would use the "Crescent Knife".

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Could be a tie-in to promote other upcoming FF games. They have that sequel to XIII coming out, don't they?

[Bells]

Maybe they will add Lightining's Enemy from XIII-2 Trailer as a DLC character

[bluestarultor]

Dammit. The thing's so close to launch, and I just find myself wanting more characters. Am I a bad person for that?

By the way, it should be noted that a few days ago, someone found out what some of the new exclusive equipment is. There was one set of weapons that didn't go to any revealed character, and doesn't sound like anything I've ever seen.

Unless you guys know what character would use the "Crescent Knife".

Well, looking into the games with no extra characters in so far and a bit of Japanese, "crescent" translates to "engetsu," which is used for the Full Moon/Moonring Blade throwing weapon Shadow uses ("Engetsurin" -> "crescent ring").

That's a bit of a stretch, though. I'm personally inclined to think it's a weapon for either Gilgy or maybe Desperado Chaos.



BTW: Link to this? I could pass it on to the wiki.



Edit: Found it. From what people are saying, the new weaponry might belong to Thancred (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Thancred), an NPC from FF14. Honestly, while it would surprise me to have someone from a game in parallel development, the weapons listed have quite frankly been a B**** to find info on. The Balmung in FF is generally a sword and on second thought the Moonring Blade really isn't compatible with the knife translation and is already in. Basically we have three weapons that we don't know anything about.


Also, Gilgamesh is going to be the best thing ever if they keep his tone. To Terra, roughly: "Why so sad? Need advice?" I think we all know exactly the quality of advice he'd give from the end of FFV. XD

[Locke cole]

"Act like a woman from time to time!"

[bluestarultor]

"Act like a woman from time to time!"

"If you remember how!"



Edit: This just in! Nomura says 012 will be the last Dissidia in the current setup. http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/02/22/nomura_dengeki_interview/

Not the last of the series, but it seems the team feels the fighting game thing is tapped out and will do something different if/when the next one gets started.

Frankly, I don't blame them. The sales figures are probably not good for the original and probably won't be much better for this one. On the other hand, it's good they're not throwing the baby out with the bath water.

[Locke cole]

There's been a glut of gameplay videos recently.

I know which one you want to see. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWBR_ryhrQs)

[Flarecobra]

Yeah, Gilgy has the applause, but Laguna has the Greatest. Attack. Ever. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5b15hCFj1o)

Seriously. He says that.

EDIT FOR UPDATE: So, Desperado Chaos is the latest new character. Thoughts?

[POS Industries]

So, Desperado Chaos is the latest new character. Thoughts?
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/1289103982487.gif

[bluestarultor]

I guess a lot of people are going to be disappointed with no new additions from 6 or 9.

Really, there were two extra character slots, so it's probably just a matter of no time to implement them. They don't seem to be worried about adding anyone through DLC, so they'll probably just sit.

[Drownball-Champ]

The lack of Vivi or Quina disappoints, but they included Gilgamesh so that makes up for it.

[Locke cole]

Well, at least III and VI got new stages?

But Desperado Chaos actually looks pretty sweet. His EX Burst is the stuff of nightmares, right at the end there.

[Kerensky287]

I would've loved to see Beatrice in the game, but oh well.

Even though they probably won't do character DLC, they've said they plan to do stuff like themes and costumes. There are something like 3 songs per game available from the get-go, as well as 2 more songs per game in the PP store, but even with that in mind there's still a lot I haven't seen that I'd love to play around with.

The top 3 I can think of are Maybe I'm a Lion from FF8 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uYDT_Y6Jj5c), Sword of Doubt from FF9 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZkWc1mN_dQ) and Challenge from FF10 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDdDaZuMWko). Any that you guys would appreciate seeing?

[Flarecobra]

Holy shitfuck on a stick... look at that HP. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KhAWJX46hxQ&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

And also, at least the first character costume DLC is confermed...
http://images.wikia.com/finalfantasy/images/f/fe/Kuja_4th.jpg

Wow.

Guess I got one wish: In a DLC, WoL loses the dopey-looking helmet. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIhmy3iRByk&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL)

[EVILNess]

There's been a glut of gameplay videos recently.

I know which one you want to see. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gWBR_ryhrQs)

Is... that Zoro's voice?

Ho shit! Sanji is Laguna?

[bluestarultor]

Well, at least III and VI got new stages?

But Desperado Chaos actually looks pretty sweet. His EX Burst is the stuff of nightmares, right at the end there.

It's even creepier when you consider that it'll be taking up your whole screen when you actually play the thing, which means you get a facefull of D. Chaos in static roaring straight at you from behind the screen before it blips off akin to an old CRT TV, at least to those who still remember old CRT TVs. The only thing that ruins it is that it blips straight to normal end-of-battle stuff instead of, I dunno, putting the system into standby so you actually have to turn it back on again. It might get annoying, but I'm sure a lot of people would be heavily impacted by it, because that shit means there's a demon in your hands, you know? The extra weight would do a lot when you lost to the guy. It could be skipped for when you're playing him, though.



Edit: Or at the very least, hold it out at blackout for a few more torturous seconds.

[POS Industries]

Dissidia Prologus is finally hitting the PSN on the 15th. (http://www.psxextreme.com/psp-news/2227.html)

Good to see they're getting that in just under the wire.

[POS Industries]

Doublepost because of updates.

I'm playing Prologus on arcade mode right now. Combat is much faster, lots of interesting little tricks and changes that I'm enjoying. Just discovered Golbez's new Sector Ray HP attack is an amazing pain in the ass to deal with. The new and improved Forsaken Null is a dream. Kefka's still out in the open, but he's able to float around very quickly while channeling it and it moves MUCH faster now. I don't feel so vulnerable during and after every attack now.

[Donomni]

This game will kill my arms on a constant basis.

Especially since it did last night. OW.

Was playing as Lightning. I used the Commando style a hell of a lot more than Ravager, mostly because Ravager mode's attack are only slightly longer in range(Well, not the Water spell, but that's more of a trap thingy anyways). Medic mode seems like an afterthought, although you probably get more than Cure in the full game(hopefully).

[Doc ock rokc]

So is prologus worth it? I was thinking about it and I don't know if I sould get it with the release being so close. I mean a aeries assist doesn't seem like something I would be into...

[bluestarultor]

So is prologus worth it? I was thinking about it and I don't know if I sould get it with the release being so close. I mean a aeries assist doesn't seem like something I would be into...

Aerith assist is actually pretty amazing from what we know about it. They gave her attacks a bunch of unique properties like granting you temporary invulerability and paralyzing the opponent for a brief stint.

Basically, worth the $3 alone.



For everyone else, I've got you hooked up:
gameplay changes (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Dissidia_012_Final_Fantasy%2FGameplay_Changes)
Lightning (http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Lightning_%28Final_Fantasy_XIII%29%2FDissidia)

[Kerensky287]

This game will kill my arms on a constant basis.

Especially since it did last night. OW.

Was playing as Lightning. I used the Commando style a hell of a lot more than Ravager, mostly because Ravager mode's attack are only slightly longer in range(Well, not the Water spell, but that's more of a trap thingy anyways). Medic mode seems like an afterthought, although you probably get more than Cure in the full game(hopefully).

Ravager style is much more Kefka-ish. Each attack has a "weird" aspect to it, so you won't want to use it in EVERY situation, but it's nice to have options outside of Commando.

And Medic mode is actually kind of cool, in my opinion. Cure goes off fast enough that you can basically sprinkle it all over the place for that added damage boost, and when you get Curasa (think Cure but 5x better, except if you miss the small timing window then the chain ends) then you can seriously build some brave that way.

[Doc ock rokc]

after realizing that I both have a bit of disposable income and only a little time on my hands. I bought the freaking demo. While I love the game play I hate only one thing
How fucking stupid Jecht looks. dear good His old skin best be a unlock. (also they took out one of his Jecht combos (the Ultimate jecht shot setup))
otherwise the game is MUCH faster Much more demanding in attention and strategy but not a spam fest...Fantastic!

Edit:DAMN SEPH is good when he isnt posing. I went though hard arcade mode in ten minutes!

[bluestarultor]

Just as a note, but Desperado Chaos has been renamed to Feral Chaos, apparently. This is going to have a lasting impact on wiki lingo for ages. :sweatdrop

[POS Industries]

While I love the game play I hate only one thing
How fucking stupid Jecht looks. dear good His old skin best be a unlock
You mean the thing with the white pants? That's actually just his second alternate costume. His standard appearance will remain the same as the first, but it appears that any character that has switched sides for this game (Jecht, Tidus, Terra, and Cloud) in the story mode is shown wearing their new outfits in cutscenes.

Because obviously alignment shifts require wardrobe changes. This is indisputable fact.

[Doc ock rokc]

Man I got a awesome Idea for a comic because of this...also I find mild enjoyment to use the Change assist to get tidus to take my blows for me. It makes me think of Jecht as a total jerk that throws his son into dangerous situations (which oddly is exactly how i think of him anyway).

[Flarecobra]

You mean the thing with the white pants? That's actually just his second alternate costume. His standard appearance will remain the same as the first, but it appears that any character that has switched sides for this game (Jecht, Tidus, Terra, and Cloud) in the story mode is shown wearing their new outfits in cutscenes.

Because obviously alignment shifts require wardrobe changes. This is indisputable fact.

Yeah... since dark brooding clothing just screams "EVIL!", doesn't it?

[Doc ock rokc]

Yeah... since dark brooding clothing just screams "EVIL!", doesn't it?

I guess. But still He turns into Sin for his EXE has all his moves named after him and is a completely hammy jerk to everyone he beats...He is still the Jerk ass dad in my book. no need for the crappy skin.

[Flarecobra]

Not gonna argue that.

[POS Industries]

I guess. But still He turns into Sin for his EXE has all his moves named after him and is a completely hammy jerk to everyone he beats...He is still the Jerk ass dad in my book. no need for the crappy skin.
But no see that's the exact reason for the crappy skin because how would you know that he's one of the good guys if he weren't wearing white pants, hmm?

I mean, Cloud's still a broody, monotone little shit, Tidus is all mad about how his dad didn't hug him enough, and Terra is mopey and melodramatic about being a super saiyan freak, just like they were in the first game, so they have to be dressed differently or we'd never be able to figure out that they are on Team JacobChaos!

[bluestarultor]

But no see that's the exact reason for the crappy skin because how would you know that he's one of the good guys if he weren't wearing white pants, hmm?

I mean, Cloud's still a broody, monotone little shit, Tidus is all mad about how his dad didn't hug him enough, and Terra is mopey and melodramatic about being a super saiyan freak, just like they were in the first game, so they have to be dressed differently or we'd never be able to figure out that they are on Team JacobChaos!

Ignoring that the not-werewolf was WAY better for not-Meyer than the not-vampire just by virtue of wanting to give her his dog bone instead of eat her (seriously, lolwhut?), the issue with Dissidia is everyone is boiled down to their early-game personalities and never really grows past them.



Also, this just in: Gilgamesh can use the Gilgamesh summon. :D

[Flarecobra]

Why? Cause he's the Goddamn Gilgamesh.

[Locke cole]

Characters can also equip the Gilgamesh summon alongside the Gilgamesh assist.

[Roland]

Now if only Gilgamesh could use the Gilgamesh summon alongside the Gilgamesh assist, everything would be perfect.

If it's not possible, hackers must make it so.

[POS Industries]

Now if only Gilgamesh could use the Gilgamesh summon alongside the Gilgamesh assist, everything would be perfect.

If it's not possible, hackers must make it so.
I have yet to see any evidence suggesting that it isn't.

I guess I'll find out tomorrow.

[Kerensky287]

Characters can't get themselves as assists, so no, it isn't.

I wish you could, even though it'd be confusing as hell. Imagine - Laguna + Laguna vs Laguna + Laguna! That many costumes doesn't even EXIST.

[POS Industries]

Characters can't get themselves as assists, so no, it isn't.

I wish you could, even though it'd be confusing as hell. Imagine - Laguna + Laguna vs Laguna + Laguna! That many costumes doesn't even EXIST.
Well, that was the evidence I hadn't seen yet. I'd been wondering, but at the same time didn't care enough to check and some yutzes on Dissidiaforums had been discussing Kefka/Kefka combos, so I thought there might have been a chance.

[Doc ock rokc]

Characters can't get themselves as assists, so no, it isn't.

I wish you could, even though it'd be confusing as hell. Imagine - Laguna + Laguna vs Laguna + Laguna! That many costumes doesn't even EXIST.

when i was playing the Prothingmabob i ran into Cecil with normal skin and my summon was Cecil with normal skin.

[Kerensky287]

So, apparently in quickbattles, you can change between different rule settings.

By "rules" I mean stuff like critical hit rate, Ex gauge fill rate, assist recovery rate... that kind of thing.

When you go into the Assist-centric ruleset your gauge basically fills up after any 3 attacks, which is absolutely bonkers. It's EXCELLENT.

[EVILNess]

It's EXCELLENT.

Meaning it is going to be banned by people who try and do "serious" play of fighting games that really aren't meant for it?

[bluestarultor]

Meaning it is going to be banned by people who try and do "serious" play of fighting games that really aren't meant for it?

There's a difference between serious players and carebears.

[Flarecobra]

Or people who think it's just like any other fighting game.

EDIT: Kain... <3

And I like Penelo's revamped comments in the character tips. Seems she's starting to even like Kefka.

[POS Industries]

Speaking of Kefka, they really went all out with him in the story mode. While everyone else has basically had the same "stand there and talk while occasionally doing their one unique animation they have" thing, Kefka's been fully animated, bouncing around the screen like a crazy person, rarely doing the same thing twice. And considering that he seems to be all up in everyone's business so far, rarely doing the same thing twice is quite a feat compared to his castmates.

Also a really stellar story-mode touch: quick dialogue exchanges at the beginning of major character battles.

Meanwhile, the one major downside I've found to transferring my old save data is the fact that items and gil don't come with it, which means that, while I get to keep my level 100 characters with most of their abilities mastered, they're completely useless for the time being until I slog through the item grind again, which may prove to be even grindier now that gil is supposed to be harder to rack up.

I mean, sure, I can do no equips matches against people if I really wanted to, but what fun is that?!

[Locke cole]

Like that one scene where he stands there and waves Vaan goodbye. Heh.

[Kerensky287]

I like the concept of the reports, but I wish they had been done a little differently. Hitting square to highlight words that send you into new story sequences... uh, kind of awkward. Especially because some of them are cutscenes and the others are battles.

I gotta say, I don't hate the voice acting as much this time around either. A few of the characters are still pretty terrible (zidaaaane) but most of the new cast is pretty decent, and a lot of the standouts from the first game get a lot more screentime now.

Still wish there was an option to, say, turn off repeated quotes. "TOO SLOW! TOO SLOW! TOO SLOW! TOO SLOW! YOU'RE NOT GETTING AWAAAAY!" Fuck Zidane.

[Flarecobra]

You know, Vaan is actually kinda interesting to play... His crossbow attack can be a PAIN to fight agenst though.

[POS Industries]

Like that one scene where he stands there and waves Vaan goodbye. Heh.
Oh man, that is where I'm up to so far and I lol'd forever.

[POS Industries]

So I've started trying my hand at Tifa bcuz boobz lol. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u5G0so5IUHk)

Her feint ability is pretty neat, if a little awkward at first. I can't help but feel like X wasn't the most ergonomic button they could have chosen for this mechanic, but an alternative such as maybe L+R like Lightning uses for her paradigm shifts probably wouldn't be much better. There's also the notable downside of the ability being designed more to fake out human opponents, making practicing it against button-reading AI something of an uphill battle, but it's still pretty cool to watch when it works as intended.

The other major setback I'm having at the moment is that my level gain on her seems to be outpacing AP gain (compared to Laguna and Yuna who got the Bonus Day treatment during story mode, maxing out their abilities left and right in no time), so I'm unable to slot her full available range of abilities just yet, limiting my options more than I'd like in the meantime.

[Kerensky287]

The other day I managed to nail a feint-Burning Arrow in order to dodge Razor Gale. Bliss.

But yeah, Tifa's definitely not optimized for AI opponents. At best, you can use her like a crappy version of Tidus. At worst... you'll face Exdeath who will guard-counter every attack anyway.


I'm enjoying Prishe a lot more than I thought I would. The skillchain concept is neat, but I just enjoy the fact that you can, say, have Backhand Blow--> Combo as one attack, and then Backhand Blow-->Backhand Blow as another. I just wish her HP attacks didn't suck so much...

[Locke cole]

Banishga looks useful...

I've been watching some of the cutscenes triggered by Reports (on Youtube), and some of them are hilarious.

Such as anything with Laguna, and Cecil the matchmaker.

[POS Industries]

I've been watching some of the cutscenes triggered by Reports (on Youtube), and some of them are hilarious.

Such as anything with Laguna
I'm thinking he's going to be my next project after I get Tifa leveled up. Maybe with a CoD assist for good measure.

[Locke cole]

Funny thing: Laguna is the reason Firion is obsessed with an actual rose

[POS Industries]

Hm... Begin Tifa's story chapter, immediately receive Pearl Necklace.

Oh Squeenix, you delightful cads.

[Doc ock rokc]

when i get the cash this game is SOOO mine!

[Ryong]

Hm... Begin Tifa's story chapter, immediately receive Pearl Necklace.

Oh Squeenix, you delightful cads.

Tifa's great at subtlety, right?

[Locke cole]

I don't get it.

[Krylo]

Type pearl necklace into google. Leave safe search off.

Or just check urban dictionary. Probably faster and safer.

[Kerensky287]

I just unlocked the Feral Chaos mission set. Turns out you can battle your assist character by talking to them. I didn't know this.

Level 1 Jecht vs Level 100 Yuna. BRING IT ON.

EDIT: oh god I feel like the last boss of ff10 against a properly leveled team

[POS Industries]

Level 100 Yuna.
Wow, someone's been doing some power leveling. How's the quest for gear coming along? I'm dying for a shortcut on that front.

Beat the main story mode last night, now I've just got Scenario 000 and the Dissidia 013 story mode to slog through again. By the time I got to the end, I was feeling pretty cocky with Tifa in the 40s just powering through the last chapter all by her lonesome. When I got to the final battle, it became apparent that this was just the sort of thing S-E intended the player to do.

Unfortunately for me, it seems they'd assumed I'd be doing it with Lightning.

Nothing like fighting Garland with a 17 level disadvantage, let me tell ya!

[Kerensky287]

Wow, someone's been doing some power leveling. How's the quest for gear coming along? I'm dying for a shortcut on that front.

I was the Jecht, actually.

...

And the gear's coming kind of crappy, but that's mostly because I don't have the raw materials to craft good items. I've got a ton of gil now, not sure where it came from. I think a good half of my mains are equipped with Capella, which I bought on my first day of playing.

Beat the main story mode last night, now I've just got Scenario 000 and the Dissidia 013 story mode to slog through again. By the time I got to the end, I was feeling pretty cocky with Tifa in the 40s just powering through the last chapter all by her lonesome. When I got to the final battle, it became apparent that this was just the sort of thing S-E intended the player to do.

Unfortunately for me, it seems they'd assumed I'd be doing it with Lightning.

Nothing like fighting Garland with a 17 level disadvantage, let me tell ya!

I actually really like playing as Lightning, but yeah, it seems really weird to me that they'd scale levels on the assumption that you'd pick one specific character out of 5.

[POS Industries]

I was the Jecht, actually.

...
Oh, whoops! For some reason I thought that, since she was your assist, she'd be at the level you'd raised her to for some reason, which is silly but I had a long day at work and am clearly not thinking, er... clearly.

And the gear's coming kind of crappy, but that's mostly because I don't have the raw materials to craft good items. I've got a ton of gil now, not sure where it came from. I think a good half of my mains are equipped with Capella, which I bought on my first day of playing.
Yeah, I've got all level 1 items so far except for two level 30s, one of which cost a damn fortune and the other I think I managed to get beating up opponents half my level with Kefka, since it was the only way to keep their stats roughly even to a gearless lvl 100 character. The AI was still on maximum! Don't you judge me!

I actually really like playing as Lightning, but yeah, it seems really weird to me that they'd scale levels on the assumption that you'd pick one specific character out of 5.
She's not bad. It's just that she's neither Tifa nor had the benefit of her chapter being played on my bonus day like Laguna, Yuna, and Vaan all had. I figured that, since all of their opponents were in the mid-20s, Lightning would come through just fine in her match. Nnnnnnnope!

Long story short, I learned how to get the most out of Razor Gale spam. I guess they figured that since, in the story, she was apparently the leader that the player would just naturally put her on point. Of course, this is an assumption they keep making in every game in this series and fuck you I don't want Cloud in my party if Tifa/Barrett/Cid is the more obviously badass combination.

Why won't you just let me do that, Nomura? Why?

[Kerensky287]

Oh, whoops! For some reason I thought that, since she was your assist, she'd be at the level you'd raised her to for some reason, which is silly but I had a long day at work and am clearly not thinking, er... clearly.

I just realized that the ellipses may have come off as a little dickish, but it was more meant to imply "Yeah, I was fucked" than "You made a stupid mistake." I don't know much about matchups and it's a little early to call it already, but I do think that Yuna can shut down Jecht about as hard as Emperor and Ulty can. She has ludicrous range and her HP attacks stop him in his tracks.


Yeah, I've got all level 1 items so far except for two level 30s, one of which cost a damn fortune and the other I think I managed to get beating up opponents half my level with Kefka, since it was the only way to keep their stats roughly even to a gearless lvl 100 character. The AI was still on maximum! Don't you judge me!

I did a ton of Labyrinth fighting so I have several of the items you can take out of there. Other than that, I fought Chaos over and over again with Prishe and Shantotto to powerlevel them, and I think that may have gotten me some gil.

I just got Lightning's Enkindler sword, so that's a nice little boost.

She's not bad. It's just that she's neither Tifa nor had the benefit of her chapter being played on my bonus day like Laguna, Yuna, and Vaan all had. I figured that, since all of their opponents were in the mid-20s, Lightning would come through just fine in her match. Nnnnnnnope!
Long story short, I learned how to get the most out of Razor Gale spam.

Ugh, I hate Razor Gale. Did you know Jecht can PUNCH THROUGH IT?

But I guess it'd still be useful against Garland with the easily exploitable AI.

I guess they figured that since, in the story, she was apparently the leader that the player would just naturally put her on point. Of course, this is an assumption they keep making in every game in this series and fuck you I don't want Cloud in my party if Tifa/Barrett/Cid is the more obviously badass combination.

Why won't you just let me do that, Nomura? Why?

I don't understand how or why they could rationalize making a character the leader in a game that is literally full of the leaders from various games.

[POS Industries]

I just realized that the ellipses may have come off as a little dickish, but it was more meant to imply "Yeah, I was fucked" than "You made a stupid mistake." I don't know much about matchups and it's a little early to call it already, but I do think that Yuna can shut down Jecht about as hard as Emperor and Ulty can. She has ludicrous range and her HP attacks stop him in his tracks.
Yeah, she's a beast. Well, the beasts she summons are beasts, anyway. I'm thinking about leveling her up as well, though I really did go over my quota for girly spellcasters in the last game already and don't necessarily know if I need to expand such a roster further.

On the other hand, she's less pathetic overall than Terra at this point (we get it, she was mopey in VI, but this aspect of her personality doesn't need to get exaggerated further and further with her every appearance) and I'm thinking Laguna might have a real shot at replacing Ultimecia's rack as all I'm willing to tolerate from VIII, so maybe I'll find a place for her after all.

Conversely, "I won because of all of you" is not a victory quote I want to hear over and over again. This could go either way, really.

I don't understand how or why they could rationalize making a character the leader in a game that is literally full of the leaders from various games.
And yet there they all go, taking orders for WoL who wasn't even actually a character in his game. He was just on the box art!

Though in all fairness to this game, she did have the distinction of being the only main character on the Suicide Squad, so I can kinda see the rationale there.

[Kerensky287]

Though in all fairness to this game, she did have the distinction of being the only main character on the Suicide Squad, so I can kinda see the rationale there.

Vaan?

[POS Industries]

Vaan?
Who?

[Kerensky287]

Who?

Point.


So I just beat my first Feral Chaos. I think it's designed so you have to get some really good gear before fighting him, and use your 5 best characters one after the other (he has godlike DEF and 60k hp)... but I discovered rather quickly that he has no idea how to deal with Kuja's Ultima, so I just spent half an hour casting that. All my surviving party members gained like 11 levels. It was pretty cool.

[Locke cole]

Apparently the 000 campaign is absolute insanity.

[Kerensky287]

Apparently the 000 campaign is absolute insanity.

No kidding. I just got whomped by a lvl 123 Manikin Garland. HE WAS A RANDOM ENCOUNTER.

But I like 000, all said and done. It lets me powerlevel the characters I've recently become interested in - people like Yuna, Prishe, Firion and Bartz. I never really get sick of party battles, even though they're completely identical to standard fights (I mean geez, the least they could do was link assists into your own party) and I like being able to arrange my team to counterpick the opponent.

Bartz's new moveset seems almost designed to counter Emperor perfectly, for example.

[Locke cole]

I love Bartz's new moveset, and I haven't even played the game yet.

Like, all his HP attacks changed. He used to have Soul Eater and Flood on the ground. The first is stupidly hard to hit with, and the second is decent, but not as great without Doublecast.

Now, he's got freaking Hellfire for fast HP damage, and Dark Flame for insane range.

And in the air, he had Wind Shear, wich was highly punishable, and Paladin Force, which was sucky without Searchlight to boost it.

Now he's got Laguna's quick Ragnarok Blade, and Cecil's new Luminous Shard, which apparently has stupidly strong tracking.

I've got a feeling I'm going to love playing as Bartz.

[POS Industries]

The story mode from the previous game has been revamped to match the new mode, allowing for assists, the world map, KP chains, moogle shops, pre-fight exchanges during bossfights, the whole nine yards. So while it's kind of a pain to work my way through it in the hopes of acquiring more kill stuff, at the very least there's been a ton thrown in to keep it from being the same old.

I also unlocked Prishe and Gilgamesh, only the latter of which I've really gotten to check out, but I used Prishe as his assist at least, so I at least got to experience how much of a foulmouthed pain in the ass she is. Gilgy's playstyle is interesting but effective. While being pretty much subject to the whims of the RNG for most of his moves, he seems to get the payoffs from it more than the drawbacks, and his EX burst is simple enough.

Also, it's nice to see that his dimension-hopping is confirmed in the story, made funnier still by the fact that--as he was not summoned by either Chaos or Cosmos--he is the only non-amnesiac in the entire game.

Meanwhile, Terra has been nerfed straight to hell and I can barely figure out what to do with her now.

[Locke cole]

While Blizzara got a massive nerf, Meltdown's stage 3 now tracks better (so it's basically a bouncy stage 2 that lasts longer), and Thundara got a buff: it contracts much faster now and initiates Chase.

Also, Fire got a speed and startup buff, and has an HP link into Firaga.

[POS Industries]

Actually, both Blizzara and Blizzard combo got nerfed, and while the buff to Fire and the addition of Firaga are nice, they don't particularly suit her aerial playstyle as well, though it's nice that she has a little bit more in the way of ground options.

As for Meltdown, the buff is definitely nice (since before the fully-charged version was next to useless) but it's not a good backbone to her strategy like Blizzard and Blizzara were.

I do think Blizzara's range needed to be nerfed, I'll agree to that, but getting used to it have fuck all for vertical tracking is a major pain and I really feel these changes hurt her more than help her altogether.

[Locke cole]

Well, can't you just replace Blizzara with Thundara as your "general use" move? You know, since Thundara had a speed upgrade and now causes Chase?

Like, Thundara/Holy Combo/Blizzard Combo in the air, and Graviga/Meteor/Fire on the ground?

It sucks that Holy got nerfed too, and I know this moveset is not quite what she was capable of in the first game, but...

Wait, what happened to Blizzard Combo? The wiki didn't say anything about that one.

[POS Industries]

The range feels like it's been nerfed. In the first game, I seem to recall its range being about the same as a dodge, but now it's significantly shorter, so if she dodges out of the way of a melee attack, she can't immediately punish with Blizzard Combo.

I may have to try replacing Blizzara with Thundara, though. Seems like a much higher ratio of reward to risk with it.

[Locke cole]

Yeah. I replaced it quick in the first game because the contraction was too slow to catch the computer opponents, but it sounds like it'll be more useful, if Blizzara has really been reduced to what I hear it's been reduced to.

Is her EX Mode still the best thing this side of Mist?

[POS Industries]

Yeah, she's still a magical murder machine in Esper mode, so I'd heavily suggest an EX build with her, even moreso than in the first game.

Kefka, by contrast, feels less dependent on his EX mode to get anywhere this time around, though his is still one of the best in the game. The reduction in startup and cooldown lag from his attacks has made him much less vulnerable, and I look forward to really cutting loose with him when I have some passable equipment.

Most of his brave attacks have been buffed, though his best moves are still the same as they were last time. Just because Twisty Turny Blizzaga was actually made effective doesn't mean that it's worth slotting compared to the rest of his arsenal, for instance. As far as HP attacks go, I like the changes, though I'm a little undecided on the change to his EX-mode Forsaken Null, but considering how much the spell was buffed I can see why they removed the additional tracking from it.

Also, Aeris is just to die for as an assist for him. Throwing in Seal Evil when you're in the midst of firing off a healthy barrage of his spells really goes a long way in minimizing the guesswork involved.

[Locke cole]

Hah.

And I can get behind what happened to Forsaken Null. Less Tracking? Fine, because you can move during it.

And I guess Terra will once again be wearing a Pearl Necklace, Golden Hourglass, Gravitorb, Star Earring, Close To You, Center Of The World, and boosters for EX Mode, and LV 100. Maybe Far From Opponent, if I can fit it.

[EVILNess]

There is an Aya Brea costume for Lightning in the 3rd Birthday case.

It seriously made me pause and think about buying Duodecim.

[Flarecobra]

That was one of the first DLC costumes to be revieled...

And Aya can wear Lightning's outfit in 3rd Birthday as well.

[EVILNess]

I has a coupon for it.

Maybe I should give it to someone.

[Kim]

I have a friend who would love you forever if he got it.

[POS Industries]

I, having foolishly preordered from Gamestop, ended up with the silly KH Cloud outfit. I'm a bit torn here, as on the one hand I am absolutely dedicated to looking as ridiculous as possible in any game, especially this one (see also Cowgirl Tifa, President Laguna, Kefka in general) but on the other hand... bleh.

The upside here is I don't really play Cloud and can at least beat up on this costume in the Labyrinth.

Speaking of the Labyrinth: Fuck the Labyrinth. Completely ineffective way to level or train AP (since bonuses don't apply there) and worthless toward getting gil or items due to the mechanics involved. It is a nice way to pass the time playing against the AI without having to worry about being undergeared, but that's basically it.

Scenario 000, meanwhile, is pretty great for the gil/item acquisition overall but not easily traversed without the items to keep up. Le shrug.

[Solid Snake]

Also, Aeris is just to die for as an assist for him.

Man, that would've have been an awesome sentence if you were referring to fighting with Sephiroth.

[POS Industries]

Man, that would've have been an awesome sentence if you were referring to fighting with Sephiroth.
Strategic value aside, this pairing is largely inspired by said common enemy!

[Locke cole]

I once saw a video where Cloud fought Sephiroth, and Sephiroth hit the Aerith assist with Hell's Gate as she was attempting to use Holy.

I could not believe that coincidence.

[POS Industries]

I once saw a video where Cloud fought Sephiroth, and Sephiroth hit the Aerith assist with Hell's Gate as she was attempting to use Holy.

I could not believe that coincidence.
From what I've heard, it isn't. Sephiroth is reported to have a higher (if not 100%) chance of using Hell's Gate on Aeris when she's summoned against him, at least when she's summoned to cast Holy. The amount of time it takes for her to cast is basically inviting it, after all.

They let no fan go unserviced, it seems.

[Kerensky287]

From what I've heard, it isn't. Sephiroth is reported to have a higher (if not 100%) chance of using Hell's Gate on Aeris when she's summoned against him, at least when she's summoned to cast Holy. The amount of time it takes for her to cast is basically inviting it, after all.

They let no fan go unserviced, it seems.

No kidding.

/pearl necklace

/most of the mailbox messages ("Woo! Take it off, Cloud of Darkness!")

/the premise itself


By the by, I actually love the Labyrinth. It gets kind of boring because it takes too long to get going, but the idea of unlocking equips for yourself as you go is pretty cool. I imagine that later on, the items you can take out MIGHT become useful outside of labyrinth, but the only one I have is the Reaper's Shield, and that's like +3 def only. So, bleh.

[Locke cole]

Pearl Necklace?

[POS Industries]

Pearl Necklace?
Again, yes. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1117293#post1117293)

[Kerensky287]

Ryong doesn't believe me when I tell him that Dissidia would be far better if they included other Square Enix franchises too.

He obviously hasn't considered Rico Fucking Rodriguez (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JFhlJ6MRAfI&feature=related). I would pay hundreds to see him fight Laguna.

[Ryong]

Don't take that out of MSN, you know you don't want to play a party consisting of Lightning, Sora, Serge, Lara Croft and Rico Rodriguez.

[Flarecobra]

For that, I'd disagree.

Get Edgar Figaro in that mix...

[Kerensky287]

Holy shit, I forgot entirely about Chrono Cross.

Man, what the hell? You could be fighting LAVOS.

You could be PLAYING AS LAVOS.

You could be PLAYING AS RICO RODRIGUEZ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=yvjsYrNZHlc#t=10s) WITH LAVOS (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xpaJulksCik) AS AN ASSIST CHARACTER.

You could have a G9 Eclipse as a summon.

[POS Industries]

Don't take that out of MSN, you know you don't want to play a party consisting of Lightning, Sora, Serge, Lara Croft and Rico Rodriguez.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/1293349359419.gif

[Ryong]

I...

What the hell, world?

Edit: Seriously, I think you're looking for MUGEN, not Dissidia.

[Flarecobra]

Holy shit, I forgot entirely about Chrono Cross.

Man, what the hell? You could be fighting LAVOS.

You could be PLAYING AS LAVOS.

You could be PLAYING AS RICO RODRIGUEZ WITH LAVOS AS AN ASSIST CHARACTER.

You could have an F-35 as a summon.

http://sadpanda.us/images/418808-NGY5M9L.png

Yeah... It's just a big FF crossover. Not a Squeenix crossover. They do that enough in the Mana series.

[Kerensky287]

Hey, you know who else gets to be in All-SquareEnix Dissidia?

Adam Jensen. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKHolbuiorY)

[Krylo]

http://sadpanda.us/images/418808-NGY5M9L.png

Yeah... It's just a big FF crossover. Not a Squeenix crossover. They do that enough in the Mana series.

Counter-point:

http://i53.tinypic.com/2irx44x.png

[Doc ock rokc]

Honestly I the Dissida system would be fantastic if they upgraded to a console increased the graphics and did a ton of other things. I would pay for a HD Kefka to be throwing fireballs around and it would make Matchmaking SO much easier.

[POS Industries]

Honestly I the Dissida system would be fantastic if they upgraded to a console increased the graphics and did a ton of other things. I would pay for a HD Kefka to be throwing fireballs around and it would make Matchmaking SO much easier.
Just for the competent online capability alone, I'd be willing to put it on a console at this point.

I mean, I like the basic concept in how it's designed around the handheld platform, as the pokemonesque aspects of leveling and customizing your characters would be difficult to pull off on a console unless they either opted to scrap local multiplayer (further hamstringing what little tournament scene this game is able to muster already) or came up with a system to pit one save file against another save file on the same console (a convoluted solution at best, I'd imagine).

On a related note, if any of you are interested in setting up Xlink Kai and maybe setting up our own little NPF Dissidia clique over there, I'd certainly be into it.

[Locke cole]

Yeah... It's just a big FF crossover. Not a Squeenix crossover. They do that enough in the Mana series.

Speaking as a person who has played Secret, Sword, Children, SD3, and Final Fantasy Adventure: what crossovers?

[Kerensky287]

If I had any idea how Xlink Kai worked I'd definitely be into that. I'll look into it sometime.


I seem to remember reading somewhere that if they continue Dissidia, the next entry won't be the same kind of fighting game style they've been doing. Not sure what they meant in that case, but I think that if they've noticed the kind of cash cow an open FF-crossover has the potential to be, then they'd probably be more than willing to kick it over to consoles once they make the genre switch. Who knows, maybe they'll finally man up and let in some of the non-mainseries characters, too.

And not just like, Adam Jensen and Rico Rodriguez. I'm talking about goddamn Ramza here. Why no Ramza love, Squenix? Why no Ramza love?

[POS Industries]

If I had any idea how Xlink Kai worked I'd definitely be into that. I'll look into it sometime.
Imagine a massive pain in the ass. Congratulations, you now comprehend the Xlink Kai gaming experience.

If all my money weren't currently reserved for family medical expenses for the foreseeable future, I'd drop 300 bucks on a PS3 right now just to get some semi-reliable online play for this game.

Why no Ramza love, Squenix? Why no Ramza love?
If they ever put in Marche as a Chaos warrior, I'd buy 20 copies.

[Locke cole]

If they ever put in Marche as a Chaos warrior, I'd buy 20 copies.

Oh for the love of-

And anyway, TA2 is cooler. Even if I love my generics more than I do my main characters.

[POS Industries]

Oh for the love of-
World destroyers don't get to be on Team Cosmos.

Re-crippling your own brother certainly doesn't get you on Team Cosmos.

Re-killing your friend's mom doesn't help, either.

[Locke cole]

World destroyers don't get to be on Team Cosmos.

Re-crippling your own brother certainly doesn't get you on Team Cosmos.

Re-killing your friend's mom doesn't help, either.

Banishing an illusion spell that's taken hold over your town, and quite possibly your whole world, and has tried to ensnare the kid who unknowningly unleashed it, probably earns some brownie points.

I mean, that "mom" was quite literally a book. A book feeding off of Mewt's insecurities to keep him wrapped up in her little world. A book who manifested his anger as a psychopath trying to kill his friends.

And that world wasn't sunshine and rainbows for everyone. Remember those bullies from the snowfight, who teased Mewt? Remember the zombies with their names? Yeah...

[POS Industries]

Banishing an illusion spell that's taken hold over your town, and quite possibly your whole world, and has tried to ensnare the kid who unknowningly unleashed it, probably earns some brownie points.
Considering that, as far as anyone in the cast had seen before Marche went off on his little quest to destroy everything, it was a better world for everyone, I wouldn't be handing out brownie points just yet. Ritz was in a world where she felt like she didn't have to hide herself out of shame. Mewt was a prince whose mother wasn't dead and his father wasn't a failure. Marche was a celebrated hero and leader and Doned was healthy and happy.

And then, as it turned out, it wasn't an illusion. The world remained afterward, to the point where two more games were made in the same world (one of which in the main series, in fact). It was real. He tried to destroy a real world because he thought it was an illusion.

I mean, that "mom" was quite literally a book. A book feeding off of Mewt's insecurities to keep him wrapped up in her little world. A book who manifested his anger as a psychopath trying to kill his friends.
The friends that were seeking to unravel the very existence of that reality. I mean, sure, staying meant not facing the harsh reality of their world where their lives sucked and their families were dead and dying, and creating Llednar to combat the problem was on the extreme side, but bear in mind that the person he was created to kill was crossing the countryside, wreaking untold havoc and mowing down his own friends who stood in his way just because he was unconvinced that the world they were in was real.

And that world wasn't sunshine and rainbows for everyone. Remember those bullies from the snowfight, who teased Mewt? Remember the zombies with their names? Yeah...
You mean the snowfight where they threw rocks at him?

And considering that the "real" world turned out to exist outside the "fantasy" world the book had supposedly constructed all along, and that mission took place after the realization of this, it would seem those kids were probably fine anyway.

[Locke cole]

Considering that, as far as anyone in the cast had seen before Marche went off on his little quest to destroy everything, it was a better world for everyone, I wouldn't be handing out brownie points just yet. Ritz was in a world where she felt like she didn't have to hide herself out of shame. Mewt was a prince whose mother wasn't dead and his father wasn't a failure. Marche was a celebrated hero and leader and Doned was healthy and happy.

I'll give you that. Note, though, that the first crystal was destroyed by accident: Marche stumbled into Famfrit's domain. Not entirely sure why he went after the crystals after that, but I think he believed that "another world will appear" meant that, I dunno, a portal to his normal world would show up.

After the second crystal's destruction, he realized that the whole world was just an illusion crafted by Mewt, which, I believe, was before he got into conflict with his other friends.


And then, as it turned out, it wasn't an illusion. The world remained afterward, to the point where two more games were made in the same world (one of which in the main series, in fact). It was real. He tried to destroy a real world because he thought it was an illusion.

Not quite. There is a very real difference between the Ivalice that Vaan is from, and the "Ivalice" that Mewt and co. found themselves in.

See, the book that they had was not the Grimore Of The Rift, which tore open a portal in spacetime and flung Luso into Ivalice. It was Gran Grimore, which holds the power to warp the world around you. It twisted their world into an "Ivalice" built according to Mewt's desires (and the other three).

Hell, the Li-Grim says that her "Ivalice" was truly not anything at all.


The friends that were seeking to unravel the very existence of that reality. I mean, sure, staying meant not facing the harsh reality of their world where their lives sucked and their families were dead and dying, and creating Llednar to combat the problem was on the extreme side, but bear in mind that the person he was created to kill was crossing the countryside, wreaking untold havoc and mowing down his own friends who stood in his way just because he was unconvinced that the world they were in was real.

And he was right. It was, as he learned after the Ultima fight, "[Mewt's] world"


You mean the snowfight where they threw rocks at him?


That's proportionate retribution.

[POS Industries]

Not quite. There is a very real difference between the Ivalice that Vaan is from, and the "Ivalice" that Mewt and co. found themselves in.

See, the book that they had was not the Grimore Of The Rift, which tore open a portal in spacetime and flung Luso into Ivalice. It was Gran Grimore, which holds the power to warp the world around you. It twisted their world into an "Ivalice" built according to Mewt's desires (and the other three).

Hell, the Li-Grim says that her "Ivalice" was truly not anything at all.
I'm willing to buy that, though I still can't agree with Marche's course of action or motivation even after the realization, because there was no evidence to suggest that the world they had created was in any way evil. In fact, evil only began to come from it to defend against what Marche was trying to do.

That's proportionate retribution.
It's irrelevant anyway because, as I noted, that mission took place after Marche and co. were able to return home, meaning those weren't the bullies. More likely they were representative constructs created from Mewt's memories.

So in neither way were they innocent nor victims.

[Locke cole]

I'm willing to buy that, though I still can't agree with Marche's course of action or motivation even after the realization, because there was no evidence to suggest that the world they had created was in any way evil. In fact, evil only began to come from it to defend against what Marche was trying to do.

And I'll meet you in the middle there and agree. Marche was perhaps too zealous in wanting them to go back to reality, and the darker elements of the world's origins didn't make themselves known until he had gone much further.

Marche's problem wasn't that he's some insane evil dude, more that he just didn't stop to think about what he was doing beyond "putting things back to normal", and that he was pretty damn stubborn in keeping to his course.


It's irrelevant anyway because, as I noted, that mission took place after Marche and co. were able to return home, meaning those weren't the bullies. More likely they were representative constructs created from Mewt's memories.

So in neither way were they innocent nor victims.

Actually, there's two such missions. That postgame one, where they're vampires, and one earlier on, before the endgame, where zombies with their names show up.

But this is kind of a random tangent.

[POS Industries]

And I'll meet you in the middle there and agree. Marche was perhaps too zealous in wanting them to go back to reality, and the darker elements of the world's origins didn't make themselves known until he had gone much further.

Marche's problem wasn't that he's some insane evil dude, more that he just didn't stop to think about what he was doing beyond "putting things back to normal", and that he was pretty damn stubborn in keeping to his course.
This is true, but--considering that in Duodecim you have Tidus, Cloud, and Terra as soldiers of Chaos--I believe that regardless of his intentions, his course of action puts him as a more likely candidate of Chaos.

At least he's more qualified for the position than Tidus of all people.

[Locke cole]

I'm still boggling about Cloud, of all people being on the Chaos side.

He's not even brainwashed. Why is he there?

I wonder what Marche would even do as a soldier of Chaos. Would he just fight whoever, or defect and go after the gods directly to try and get everyone home, or what?

Either way, he'd be more interesting than Luso, I think we can all agree about that.

[POS Industries]

defect and go after the gods directly to try and get everyone home
This would actually be pretty cool. I mean, this way they could basically retread the premise of FFTA without the inherent moral dilemma, because in this case the world that's been created for the way is essentially malevolent in its basic nature, an endless cycle of war perpetrated by a entity of pure destruction and a construct of Cid of the Lufaine's dead wife set up to oppose him.

Regardless of which side he was brought in on, I really don't see him responding to the situation in any other way than looking to tear it all down and get he and his friends back to their respective realities. It would add a fantastic new element to the story dynamic.

[Kerensky287]

I'm just going to state for the record that I had nothing to do with the conversation turning in this direction, despite the fact that I have been suggesting this to Ryong for several days and he's been saying "no" and getting hilariously pissed off about it.

I feel that there are too many Chaos soldiers who found the power of magical friendship and turned to Cosmos. Why is it that the only character who does it the other way around has to be brainwashed for it to happen? I mean, throw Marche in there, he starts off as a Cosmos warrior, then discovers the repeating cycle and switches to the more powerful team in an attempt to destroy one of the gods that's perpetuating it. Simple, in-character, morally ambiguous and still arguably a sensible move.

[Kim]

Dissidia would be about 20% cooler in my book if they included Ashley Riot.

Or Fran.

[Locke cole]

Frimelda Lotice.

[Kerensky287]

Neku Sakuraba.

[POS Industries]

Slab Bulkhead.

[Doc ock rokc]

Big McLarge Huge

[POS Industries]

Blast Hardcheese.

[Doc ock rokc]

Butch Deadlift.

[POS Industries]

Bolt Vanderhuge. (http://dresdencodak.com/2006/03/23/be-a-zebra/)

[Doc ock rokc]

Slam Squatthrust

[POS Industries]

Bob Johnson.

...wait.