Pokemon Umbral Theatre 10: Pictures I Don't Think You Want Explained

[Astral Harmony]

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral31.jpg

This is why sometimes logic has to be ignored in Pokemon.

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral32.jpg

Hot Eevee on Dusknoir action?

http://i1038.photobucket.com/albums/a469/PokemonUmbral/PokemonUmbral93.jpg

I like this. I can imagine you guys camping out, dining on Furrets 'n' shit. Anyways, on to the questions...

Well, this one isn't strictly related to the new characters. What are you going to do with Double Attack for the NPCs? Keeping it as is, replacing it, adding a Rage cost?

Also FYI: you no doubt forgot but I had kind of already given Elizabeth Steel-type Evoliths. But you're busy so I'll just give her a different kind. Maybe Bug or Ghost.

Unless Double Attack is a Character Skill (which relates to their specialty), then NPCs don't get it. And if it is available to specific NPCs, then it won't have any kind of penalties except that the Rage will only count for one of the hits.

I've fixed the problem regarding Alice.

In regards to you saying you were thinking of upgrading some characters, I was going to ask about characters like Lola and Dormond who have been around for ages but they only are pokebrids compared to the large numbers of pokebrid/slayers (Pokesoldiers) popping up. But then I remembered that Muon and Aster also joined recently and they are in the same boat. So I figured that those characters are probably high level Devas as opposed to being dual-class.

But upgrading some characters sounds good.

Mio and Laurith don't have Call-signs.

Not all NPCs are created equal. And usually when an NPC falls way behind, like Dormond and Lola as you mentioned, they tend to be retired, sometimes permanently.

I'm not going to say which characters live or die or get retired, but just note that you're going to be kicking off the sequel with a greatly diminshed force. It allows space for new characters to join up.

Menarker would object to me retiring Lola, but let me explain why. Lola might be retired only to show up for the purposes of LoveTechs and HaremTechs. Why only then? Because I don't think Menarker would want to wait until the epilogue of the sequel until Renny marries Lola and gets her pregnant. And I know for damn sure that Renny wouldn't make his pregnant wife fight on the battlefield...at least when they both realize that she is with child.

Characters who will hit their limit at ten ranks (like Dormond and Lola, again) will usually catch up by some other means, usually by increasing the potential of their specialties. But expect for some of them to go non-combat, or non-living, in the sequel.

Gem did ask me about who he was allowed to kill in a PM a long time ago, after all.

Callsigns are updated.

Oh and can you explain the upgrades Mio, Silk, Sakuya and Irene have access to?

I mean, I know Irene was able to use Double Attack, but I don't remember if she gained 1.5x or 2x Rage. Also, would her and Sakuya's RPDAs last five turns and what immunities do they have?

And Mio and Silk don't seem to have five Pokebrid forms.

Or are their classes just, like honorary titles? Like they actually level up at the same rate we do, but they're already War Goddesses and Grudge Meisters for being bad motherfuckers?

I can't explain them now. I haven't created them now.

Irene can't use Double Attack, at least not anymore.

RDPAs last five turns and have no immunities.

Mio and Silk don't have five Pokebrid forms. They may in time, but they don't now.

Honestly, the reasons this is so is because I'm woefully lazy, but let me go ahead and try a logical approach as to why.

For Irene, she's suffering weakness because of the coma. Sakuya hasn't seen much battle since the Second Honmyr War. Too much politics. Same with Silk. Mio needs time to adjust to her body.

And if you don't believe that, I don't really care. Go yiff yourself or whatever.

AB? I'm just wondering why Mio, who was built to be a ruin type pokebrid has her former weaknesses all turn into resistances. I thought Ruin types were weak to dragon, psychic and dark types. Now they are her resistances aside from her fighting type immunity which at least make sense. Doesn't seem right to me somehow, since I thought Pokebrids are supposed to keep the weaknesses of their respective types unless they are wearing Slayer armors that would protect against that (which would only reduce the damage by 50% making it neutral in her case).

* Mio Kazetsubaki (Grudge Meister/Enforcer) [MIKA*]
- Slayer Defenses...
1. -50% Damage ~ Dragon, Dark, Psychic
2. -100% Damage ~ Fighting

This is because of her armor as an Overblade, and has nothing to do with her nature as a Deva (Asura, to be technical). Her armor is designed to cover up for the fact that all of her forms are Ruin Pokemon.

And speaking of which, I'll have the Ruin Pokemon listing up shortly.

[Dracorion]

Actually AB, I had already come up with a Rock Evolith for Elizabeth.

...
Nah, just kidding.

[DanteFalcon]

Current choice is Mirror Brisholm. Currently editting in my levelling guide up to level 10 as I'm not sure which way he's going after that.

Deva level 1 remains the same: (Base Rage generation increased by 1.5x)

Deva level 2 keeps the stat growth (+10 to all stats) and gains:

Potent Poison: While in Venomoth form Matthias can expend 15 rage to allow his poison to bypass any abilities or types that would otherwise negate the status he's trying to inflict for one turn.

Deva level 3 remains the same: (+20 to all stats, Ruin pokeshift form)

Deva level 4: Paradigm Shift lasts for five turns stays. Matthias gains:

Air Lock: When Matthias shifts the weather in his Castform state he can expend a minimum of 10 rage to prevent other pokemon from overriding his weather effect for 1 turn. For every 10 additional rage he uses he can lock it in place for another turn (though all have to be expended when the weather is initially shifted)

Deva Level 5: - Base Rage generated is increased by 2 times.
- Devas can choose a Legendary Pokemon as a Pokeshift form.

Emergency Adaptation: While in Porygon Z form Matt can expend 20 energy to use conversion or conversion 2 without using his regular move for that turn.

Feel free to edit, rip apart, murder with an axe. Whatever it is you guys do. That's just the basic idea. I want his initial 3 forms to get stronger and thus not be completely obsoleted by his last 2 forms.

[Astral Harmony]

Actually AB, I had already come up with a Rock Evolith for Elizabeth.

...
Nah, just kidding.

...

Shizuka's got some weird news for you, boy.

[Menarker]

That Quagsire picture strikes a little too close to my Swampert and his quad weakness to grass too! >_>


Interesting to hear about characters being retired and all that. Makes me worry which ones are hinted to get killed off. T.T


Anyhow, as for Dante's upgrades, there is no problems, and I think there is plenty of room for growth.

Only specific thing I might suggest to change for the better is:

Passive Poison: Make this a passive upgrade with no cost. Kinda like giving his Venomoth an upgraded version of the ability Mold Breaker. Although, I wonder if you meant for it to effect things like robots that normally don't have a mind or biological aspect to poison.


EDIT: Dante, have you any particular thoughts of what your legendary pokemon form of choice would be? I think you said you might choose Jirachi sometime before.

[DanteFalcon]

Jirachi possibly. Articuno is also on that list. Those seem the most likely currently.

[Menarker]

I think AB said that the Flying Eevee trainer has Articuno, Zapdos and Moltres in addition to her flying type Eevee.

Not that I blame you for the choice. Articuno would be a fine one. Especially since it's the only pokemon aside from Smergle that can learn the combination of Mind Reader and Sheer Cold.

[DanteFalcon]

We're five missions off. I think there's a decent chance we'll run into that trainer.

[Menarker]

Yeah, especially since AB said that she would likely appear during the beach mission after Pierce's sidequest. If I'm not mistaken.

[Dracorion]

...

Shizuka's got some weird news for you, boy.

Is it the news I'm thinking about, or did you change your mind?

[Menarker]

^^; Just had a weird thought about that Dusknoir/Eevee picture above.

Recall that Ghosts are immune to normal types and Normal types immune to Ghost types.
Somehow, I don't see their unexplored relationship going terribly far. :3




Anyhow, Team Team Setup as it currently is!


Team 1:
Pierce
Shizuka
Chizuru


Team 2:
Charlotte
Matthias
Mirror
Mio
Rachel
???

Team 3:
Impact
Renny
Lola
Whitney
Mika
???


>_> I was just wondering how well Kyrie would team up with Charlotte... I mean they both got something like a bloodlust going on.

[Dracorion]

Or maybe it's just the right amount of kinky.

Discord and Charlotte, Menarker.

Discord has that bonus against Humanoids going on.

[Menarker]

>_> Discord is more about venting her frustrations and opinion toward everyone in a 5 mile radius to boost her ego. Charlotte likely won't take that shit from her. Plenty of in-party combat to ensue.

Kyrie just wants to fight strong foes. Charlotte wants to kill stuff that offend her and fight stuff in general too. They'd either be good buddies or jump at each other's throat trying to claim the kill.


Oh crap, I just realized that AB might stoop to the point of attempting to have Renny naively ask Men-hating Discord about the topic of sex and romance in the sprite comic to come... >_< Poor Renny.

[Dracorion]

Poor Discord, more like.

[Menarker]

Shush you. >_>

Anyhow, I recalled that Bard said that he intended for Rachel to be his team's medic. Also, he declared that he wanted Mio, so I guess he gets it. Early bird get the worm thing.

Now the only ones left to be decided is one speciality slot character for Bard's team and Gem's enforcer.

Team 1:
Pierce
Shizuka
Chizuru

Team 2:
Charlotte
Matthias
Mirror (Engineer)
Mio (Charlotte's Enforcer)
Rachel (Medic)
??? (Matthias' Enforcer)

Team 3:
Impact
Renny
Lola (Medic)
Whitney (Renny's enforcer)
Mika (Shock Trooper)
??? (Gem's Enforcer)

[Dracorion]

Erm, Mirror is an Engineer, remember?

Unless Dante got confused and thought she was an Enforcer.

[Menarker]

Well, that's not a huge problem. Instead of Team 2 missing a speciality slot, they are missing an enforcer for Matthias.

Gem, any particular thoughts on who your enforcer would be? I'd recommend Garus for the relatively cost effective but useful technique that freezes 3 foes for 70 rage. And any foes weak to ice is OHKOed instead. Plus, a trainer is good for stalling if you ever need to switch to the rear to gain rage/health.

[Dracorion]

I'd just like to point out the impracticality of bringing an Engineer instead of a Shock Trooper.

I mean, you can do it, and you might as well because a Engineer would come in handy later, no doubt, but you better pick a goddamn badass for Matt's Enforcer.

That said, you might want to consider Alice instead of Mirror. Alice has Thunder Evoliths and Dismantle to fuck with mechanical enemies, and Charlotte's pokemon being fairly speed-centric, her Decoy Deployer and Rage Shower could mesh well with them.

[Menarker]

AB just SAID that Alice is not available this mission.

[Dracorion]

Oh, right.

Well, he didn't just say it.

[Menarker]

Hey guys, a thought occurred to me that I want to ask about.

You know how a pokemon who uses Baton Pass switches out with another pokemon who is not fighting at the time and give to them any status changes whether stat boosts/loss, wish, mean look and that sort of thing?

I was just wondering if it can be possible for the purpose of this RP for a pokemon to Baton Pass any benefits it has to its owner with levels in classes that enables them to personally fight, despite the fact that they aren't inside pokeballs.

Example being if Renny has got his pokebrid form and he has Swampert and Umbreon out on the field. Umbreon has used Curse a few times to boost her attack and her defense but loses some speed. Could Umbreon use Baton Pass to transfer the benefits to Renny, although forcing him to be an active combatant (with boosted attack/defense and speed penalty) and causing Umbreon to get recalled?

[Dracorion]

You just want to buff Mollesk to all hell and pass the benefits to Renny, don't you?

Well, as long as you don't do that, Baton Pass should be fine.

[Menarker]

I never gave Mollesk Baton Pass in his moveset. I felt from the start that would be too broken.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Approval plz kthx (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1076676&postcount=102)

And YES give Charlotte Discord or Kyrie! That would be wonderful! Discord and Charlotte would have the biggest bitch-off, and Kyrie and Charlotte would be kill stealing eachother at a every corner!

It would be great! I choose one of them!

Whats Discord's line-up again? Have we seen it yet?

[Dracorion]

It's in the document!

[Bard The 5th LW]

k

edit: saw it. Leaning on Kirie, but I'll wait for Dante's opinion.

[Dracorion]

Okay, Discord's bonus versus Humanoids might be useful.

But you might want to try to convince Geminex and Menarker to trade their Shock Trooper for an Engineer.

[DanteFalcon]

I'm stupid. Never mind. I'll look at enforcers later.

I do like Kirie better than Discord in response to Bard.

[Dracorion]

Kirie's a Shock Trooper, Dante. She can't be an Enforcer.

[Geminex]

Just what in the hell is going on over here. You spend one day doing work on your PC and when you get back everyone's being crazy an inefficient. You wonder what the hell these clowns would do without you.

Okay, okay, sorry. It's not that bad, obviously.

But in regrads to setup...
Huh. I think, if anything, we should be planning for the final battle.
Drac, what's gonna happen? Will we get slots for all our specialists? Or only the usual one of each? And in that case, will we be using Shizuka and Chizuru?

Assuming that's the case... If we don't wanna cripple ourselves later, one of us will need to bring an engie. The stronger team. And we'll probably need Mirror, cause his amplifiers will benefit the Kimonos quite a lot. Other than that, it doesn't really matter too much. If renny wants Lola, he can have Lola. We should make tactically intelligent decisions, but I think the preliminary battles won't be too hard...
As long as we get that engie (I guess he'll be my choice if Renny's taking Lola), we'll be cool.
As for enforces, pick some who're good at physical attacks, I guess, to benefit from Mirror's amps. And try to have pokemon, if possible, that'll make it easier to counter enemy strategies, and make you more survivable.

Matt's upgrades: 5-turn paradigm shift is actually pretty strong. Could you maybe slip that in a later level?

Was there anything else?

[Dracorion]

Well, it's my understanding, unless AB's changed his mind, that when all three teams come together all the characters will be fighting together in the same group, damned if there's more than one of each specialty.

AB, can you confirm this is what'll happen?

Oh, and PS: you guys do know that Elizabeth is joining at some point in this mission, right?

[Geminex]

Huh. True. What amplifiers does she have again?

[Dracorion]

She has Inhibitors. Specifically, -2 Attack and Defense for the enemies.

[Geminex]

Eh, attack amplifier, defense inhibitor. Same difference.

So, medic and shock trooper for each formation?

[Dracorion]

Unless you wanna bring Mirror for the double whammy.

[Geminex]

Hey, that's not a bad idea. That'd deal quadruple damage.
But it'd cost rage. Do we have that much rage? No rockets. And I'm thinking if we overuse it at the start of the battle, that might not be that great an idea.

But we can consider it.

[Dracorion]

We'd have the same Rage problem, only double, if it was one Engineer.

Though bringing a cool Shock Trooper instead could offset the benefit of a second Engineer.

Still, y'know what? I think you should go with a Shock Trooper.

[Astral Harmony]

Well, it's my understanding, unless AB's changed his mind, that when all three teams come together all the characters will be fighting together in the same group, damned if there's more than one of each specialty.

AB, can you confirm this is what'll happen?

No. You'll have to kick out the extras. That'll leave a formation sans Sniper and Destroyer with a surprise to even things out.

[DanteFalcon]

In response to the five turn paradigm shift I just want to point out that was in the original upgrades. Not a custom upgrade from me.

[Menarker]

Guess that means:
Both enforcers on both side stays with the formation, since there are one enforcer for each PC.
1 medic, one shock trooper and one engineer allowed to stay.
PCs stay.

So at the very least, one person would have to be kicked out. That will probably be the second medic. Having a medic is cruical for both sides early on, hence that's the only type that should be doubled up, for the sake of ensuring we have a engineer and a shock trooper as well upon reforming. However, I would like insist that we keep Lola for Medic slot and kick off Rachel when it is time. We already used Rachel extensively last mission. Lola's turn now. And her semi-regeneration ability will practically count as 4 items every round if said items are healing items. Pretty useful to ensure fairly consistent healing in a pressed situation.

Mirror is the engineer, no objection, since there are no other engineers being chosen in either groups. But the question is which group she goes in.

And the answer to that question lies in THIS question. Which team gets which Shock Trooper? Charlotte REALLY wants Kyrie or Discord for wild and crazy antics. Our side was thinking of getting Mika for her bonus with Shizuka and for her super durable pokemon and useful techs. Naturally, with both side having a medic, whichever side doesn't get the shock trooper gets the engineer.


Also, in regards to Dante's proposed upgrade, it doesn't seem that powerful since typically a pokeshift is lost when the person using it is knocked out. So in order to make the most of it, he'll have to endure 5 turns without being knocked out. A pretty tall order.

[Astral Harmony]

Dracorian, you totally iced the enemy team before the enemy phase could begin. I'd call that a new record.

The next post is going to be huge. I'm basically going to plop the other teams right at Millenium House, among many other things. So, if there's any possible interactions you may have wanted to have with other characters, please do get those done pronto. This party's fixin' to kick off.

[Dracorion]

Dracorian, you totally iced the enemy team before the enemy phase could begin. I'd call that a new record.

Yeah, that was two turns. Next time I'm going to focus on ending it in one turn. And the time after that, end the battle before it starts!

Menarker, I'd like to point out the impracticality of using Lola for the final battle.

Unlike Rachel or even Chizuru, Lola has no pokemon to soak up hits. She'd have to stay in battle at all times. She might as well have a giant fuckin' bullseye painted on her breasts. And if she goes down, we're fucked.

And take Gem's suggestion. Maybe we should plan for the final battle.

AB, I guess Pierce is going to be Enforcer-less, even after the teams get together?

[Menarker]

Chizuru only has one pokemon, thus she falls under the same vulnerability as Lola as well. Rachel is more an exception to how fragile medics can be as opposed to the standard rule.

And the group is only doomed if you guys don't bring revive items (You all should be bringing one!) I'm bringing a couple, and I'm assuming each of you are bringing some too. (Might expect you guys to use yours first because I can use Propserous Gifts to great effect for helping multiple allies.

Lola has a useful feature in partly negating battle damage by healing what gets damage after the battle phase.
Let's say you had Impact or Renny injured to 50% from combat. Lola can heal them up to full and they attack as normal. After the enemy has attacked, unless the foes deal more than 50% damage again, the ally goes right back to full again after they get hurt from the combat phase. Thus she can spread her healing or buffs around for other allies because she doesn't have to focus on healing the same bunch of allies after they take damage from the previous round. She practically doubles her uses when it comes to healing items.

Hmmm... I'm wondering if Lola's ability would trigger when she uses Renny's Love-tech to spread healing items on multiple targets.

[Dracorion]

True, but Chizuru would be less vulnerable than Lola. If only because she has one freakin' pokemon. Not to mention badass Kimono stats.

Of course we should all bring revival items! But y'know what? It'd be even better if we have a Medic who could stay alive to use revival items and everyone else had revival items! Because say a large number of us get knocked out, and the Medic doesn't have Rage to revive everyone.

Worse yet, if the Medic was one of the people who got knocked out.

PS: after the Medic nerf, don't their healing items only heal 50%? So Lola's ability would only heal 25% on the second turn.

Chizuru, on the other hand, can not only heal up to four people without expending Rage, she can generate an item per turn for any PC, giving us an infinite supply of potentially useful items. And chances are, at least Pierce's inventory is going to be depleted when we get to the final battle.

Sure, Chizuru's items are probably going to suck, but I'll take a Sitrus Berry over nothing.

That said, I'm not saying we should definitely take Chizuru. Rachel has her virtues in being the most survivable of all the Medics and fairly useful in herself. AB said the Poison Ruin General would be there, and that son of a bitch is probably going to have some Super-Poison to throw at us. Rachel's immunity ability could be damned useful.

[Menarker]

Technically, Chizuru is just as vulnerable as Lola. Her having a single pokemon just means she has more offensive and there is a chance that foes would rather target her pokemon than her. If the foes wanted to focus fire on Chizuru, her one pokemon being there won't mean anything at all in terms of protection, since it doesn't prevent them from successfully attempting to attack her.

Also, I was discussing this while under the impression that Chizuru and Shizuka would disappear to do whatever plot important stuff they needed to while the ones in our group get used. Otherwise, we'd probably replace the shock trooper in our group with Shizuka too just for the +2 Kimono boost for Chizuru and the characters we choose right now end up not meaning very much at all by the time we get to Pierce. They'd only be useful for helping us get there and not much more.

[Geminex]

True. So why not one of the other medics? We have Angelo, the psychic evee trainer. He has good pokemon, and a cool specialty.

And yeah, Menarker, that's sorta what I meant to begin with. Pierce's sidequest. The characters he picks, fight. What we take doesn't matter very much, just for our battles. That's what I said, isn't it?

Anyway, yeah. I think 1 medic, one shock trooper each. I should have called dibs on mio, but oh well. Next time, hopefully.

Mika's a good choice, I think, Menarker. Enforcer... lemme see.

Oh, and:
Hmmm... I'm wondering if Lola's ability would trigger when she uses Renny's Love-tech to spread healing items on multiple targets.
Translation: Hmm, I'm horny for lola so let's see if I can find some combination to make her more useful and guaranteeing that we'll use her this battle.

[Menarker]

^^; Well, aside from tactics, there is also roleplaying value riding on the entire Lola choice, given the entire mating season thing which AB decided to have at the same time of this quest.

And I certainly don't recall you saying anything quite like that. Mind you, I'm not objecting to Chizuru. It's Pierce's sidequest after all. Just saying I would heavily prefer choosing Lola as the medic on the off-chance the Kimonos Pierce is with become unusable for any period of time and we had to choose only one.

[Dracorion]

Well, again unless AB's changed his mind, I understood that Shizuka and Chizuru would definitely be there.

I mean, I get that you might get confused that they wouldn't be available in the DSS initially because they're already taken. But after the teams join up, there's no reason at all for them not to be there.

Remember that in order to use a second item every turn Medics have to pull back one of their combatants. Like Rachel had to when we were whoring her for heals last mission. While admittedly, we may not have Chizuru using two items every turn, the mere fact that she has this option would make her "on-the-field" time less than Lola.

Angelo has his merits. His Psychic pokemon would deal quadruple damage to the Poison Ruin General. But I'd honestly rather have Rachel providing immunity rather than Angelo's ability.

In any case, we're probably going to have to bring Angelo for sure when we face the Ground Ruin General.

And yeah, Menarker, that's sorta what I meant to begin with. Pierce's sidequest. The characters he picks, fight. What we take doesn't matter very much, just for our battles. That's what I said, isn't it?

True. Fortunately for all of you, I'm no dictator. Feel free to make your arguments (better arguments Menarker!) for your choice of Medic.

And Menarker, if you're worried about the "off chance" the simplest solution would be to, y'know, ask AB.

[Menarker]

I thought we were whoring Rachel for drugs. *Rage Rockets*

PATCA, where bitches, crack and bling are an everyday matter of life.


The only thing that strikes me as truly unique about Angelo is that his ability triggers regardless of what items you use, whether they be healing items or buff items.


Anyhow Gem, you might want to get to work on that PM you might want to send to me since AB is thinking of speeding the plot up soon.

Anyhow, gotta go for work now. See you all later.

[Dracorion]

Oh, and Menarker, you might wanna have Renny decide to Pokebridize himself before the team finds out about Millenium House.

Because, no, seriously, you're telling me Renny would say "Hey guys, wait up, I want to take this potentially time-consuming proceedure before we head out on this critical time-sensitive mission to the major enemy base" and expect anything other than a slap in the face and get dragged off to Millenium House, Pokebrid-less?

[Menarker]

Some thoughts that came up in favor of Lola (Since Drac said I would need better arguments).
1) Pokebrid moves have increased supportive functions compared to items. Moves like Heal Bell and Safeguard act like AOE Full Heals or duplicate Rachel's ability for instance. In addition, if we wanted to help ensure her safety, for the cost of one of her item actions, she can cast Protect once every two turns, helping her live a lot longer by ensuring that once every two turns, she's invincible.

2) Her poke-sync techniques are very particularly supportive. All foes go to sleep and get a -1 stat drop? Party wide Helping Hand? Good stuff.

Thus, knowing when to use her respective abilities is key, but her combination of moves and techniques make her a viable choice.

Of course, I'm not saying that Chizuru is a bad option at all. She has techs of her own too, but they seem more limited short term support or offensive.

AB, are the Kimonos that are with Pierce going to stick around when the rest of the groups rejoin (and thus we have to kick out a shock trooper and a medic)? Or do they leave during that time for plot important matters? Or will they be allowed as additional characters in the formation so Pierce can have his characters but not kick off a bunch of other characters?

[Dracorion]

1) Remember that Protect's chance of success decreases by 50% every time you use it. You could use it effectively once, maybe twice if you get lucky. Lola would get all of two turns of invincibility.

Chizuru's ability duplicates the effect of Heal Bell. Rachel's ability does Safeguard for free.

Besides, I wouldn't be surprised if Gransranx can bypass Safeguard, because he's a dick. Also because five-turn status immunity for at most four people per turn? You might as well chop off his penis, and I don't think AB wouldn't like that.

Still, the Safeguard argument is one bonus for Lola.

2) Party-wide Helping Hand? Dude, read the latest document. Lola's Sexy Party only affects three allies. Her Chimecho SyncTech also only affects 3 allies. Her Altaria SyncTech only affects three foes, and it's just sleep, no stat decrease.

I could also make the argument that Chizuru's Flash Feast is damned useful. Except, like all of Lola's techs, it costs 100 RPs. And seriously, chances are Chizuru's never going to get there.

And besides, Chizuru's more likely to reach 100 RPs before Lola. Y'know who's more likely than either of them? Rachel.

By the way, what are we going to do with NPC SyncTechs? I know that before we decided to customize our upgrades, we said that Pokebrids could use SyncTechs outside of Paradigm Shift, with a bonus for using them in Paradigm Shift. Are we still doing this?

AB, can you explain to me how Heal Block works? According to Bulbapedia, it only stops pokemon moves from recovering HP. Are we assuming for the purposes of the RP that it would also keep, say, a HoA Healer from restoring the HP of one of their allies? For that matter, are we assuming that Heal Bell cures status effects like Apathy, Exhaustion, Berserk, Plasmaburn and Deep Freeze?

[Geminex]

I think we should do the synctech thing. Only for PCs, though, and important NPCs. Not possible to take care of everyone.

Like I said, if Drac wants Chizuru and Shizuka in the final battle, give him Chizuru and Shizuka. It's his sidequest, if it comes down to a vote I'm gonna have to take his side. Sorry, Menarker. If he doesn't... We'll see. Lola has her uses, but so does Angelo, and I'd quite honestly prefer the latter. I think Shizuka might be a pretty good choice for Battle Master, regardless of whether Drac wants her or not... though Mika's also atractive...

Eh, still not sure. You guys discuss this, I'll read what you come up with tomorrow. We can decide then.
Menarker, you'll also get your response, then.

[Menarker]

No, that is NOT how Protect works.

It is 100% effective the first time, and if you use it the next turn, then it becomes 50%. If it is used successfully that time, it still becomes 50% if it is used the very next turn. If it fails or if Protect wasn't used two times in a row, then it goes back to 100% for the next time it is used.

So basically, Turn 1: Protect 100% chance. Turn 2: Don't use Protect. Turn 3: Protect for 100% chance. Repeat...

It's in Bulbapedia and I used Protect ingame a lot. It can be used several times. It just can't be used with 100% chance of success twice in a row.

Otherwise, it's like this. Turn 1: Protect 100% chance. Turn 2: Protect at 50% chance. Turn 3: If turn 2's Protect was successful, the chance of success is 50%. If turn 2's Protect failed, success rate is now 100%.


And Lola has way more support options via her forms. I was just giving examples. There are more moves that Lola can do depending on which of her forms you use. Heck, she can use Altaria's Tailwind to give 3 allies doubled speed for 3 turns. That's a huge boost for crit and avoiding being crit. Baton Pass Dragon Dance. I'm sure there are a few other options. But just saying, she has a good deal of support options.

I'm still waiting for a response from AB regarding my question. But I won't raise a fuss if I don't get Lola in the end, since it IS his RP. Drac was the one who invited a stronger argument, and I'm giving it, but I'm not against Chizuru in the first place. Just have a personal preference for wanting Lola if the option was there.


As for Lola's techs, I admit I goofed there. I had memorized her old techs, so I didn't notice they were altered in the new database of characters.


EDIT: The only character at the moment who can get Sync Tech is Matthias and the NPCs, since Renny is not high enough level of Pokebrid (and never will be) and no other PC is pokebrid.

[Dracorion]

Mika's pretty cool. But to be honest, I'd rather Shizuka because her stats are just as good, if not better than Mika's, and she has two pokemon.

Point granted on Protect.

But uh, Tailwind affecting three allies, Menarker? You sure about that?

Also, I'm fairly certain Baton Pass isn't going to work on Lola. If only because Baton Pass was the other issue in our Psych Up clusterfuck way back when, remember?

[Menarker]

As for Baton Pass, right I forgot about that. I'm still tired from work. Baton Pass won't work for Lola.

And yes, Tailwind is quoted as below by Bulbapedia

"Tailwind doubles the Speed stat of the user and all other Pokémon in the player's party for three turns."

So, taken that way, Tailwind if used as a support move similar to Safeguard which is also AOE support, would affect 3 allies. Although, since it says "user", it might be forced to target only Lola and the 2 beside her.

[Dracorion]

Three allies?

[Geminex]

Aaah, good old days. As long as you don't combo with it, it should work, though. I mean, it's one thing to balance the RP and prevent abuse. Another to eliminate a move entirely. I think baton pass lola should work, rules-wise, just wouldn't be that efficient. Two-three turns at least, for a stats boost that's not all that significant. Our medic is important, for the sake of healing. That's the main function, and we're sure as hell gonna need it. Secondary stuff is just that - secondary. Who heals most effectively and reliably?
And I think that that's Angelo. Status effects are important, and he heals them for free. Lola gives extra HP healing, but that's not all that necessary. Rachel would be nice, but we've used her already, let's go for someone different. Chizuru would be quite effective, if Drac wants her, but more vulnerable as well. I think that Chizuru's riskier, but with greater potential rewards.

Question is, do we want a risk in our medic?

Edit:
And I think tailwind should affect 2 allies at most. Bit unbalanced otherwise.

[Dracorion]

I don't...

Menarker, you...

GRAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGHHRHRHRHGR

My mind. It is broken.

[Menarker]

Edit:
And I think tailwind should affect 2 allies at most. Bit unbalanced otherwise.

How so? I'm just treating it a bit like Safeguard or Heal Bell or any other AOE support move. 3 side by side allies.

And Angelo is fine and would be a good choice for the next or a future mission. But like I said, I'm pretty damn insistent on having Lola in my group for this mission. She and my enforcer Whitney are the ones I really want during the first part of the sidequest since way back during the middle of the previous mission.

[Dracorion]

HNNNNNNNNNGGHHHHHHHH.

MY MIND. IT CANNOT STAND THIS LEVEL OF ABUSE!

FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY, STOP IT!

[Astral Harmony]

Quantum Theory has a real Gears of War 2 kind of feeling to it. I daresay it's a carbon copy. A fucking awesome copy, but a copy nonetheless.

AB, are the Kimonos that are with Pierce going to stick around when the rest of the groups rejoin (and thus we have to kick out a shock trooper and a medic)? Or do they leave during that time for plot important matters? Or will they be allowed as additional characters in the formation so Pierce can have his characters but not kick off a bunch of other characters?

I'm going to do something about them, so don't you worry your silly little head about it. Needless to say, Pierce will be extremely angry about what I will do.

AB, can you explain to me how Heal Block works? According to Bulbapedia, it only stops pokemon moves from recovering HP. Are we assuming for the purposes of the RP that it would also keep, say, a HoA Healer from restoring the HP of one of their allies? For that matter, are we assuming that Heal Bell cures status effects like Apathy, Exhaustion, Berserk, Plasmaburn and Deep Freeze?

Heal Block only stops Pokemon moves. Items and skills used by humans, except for berries, don't interface with Heal Block.

Heal Bell should cure all those status effects, unless they're being prolonged because of something else, like Psytellite possession.

[Dracorion]

I'm going to do something about them, so don't you worry your silly little head about it. Needless to say, Pierce will be extremely angry about what I will do.

Oh now that's just...

You're a son of a bitch, you know that?

Heh, AB, I think you forgot to address why Twiloch and Marionata are with the Watchmen now. Or do you mean to do that later, and that's why they're not available for the DSS right now?

Oh, and I forgot to slap you in the wrist for missing the perfect opportunity for a three way battle last mission. For shame, AB, for shame.

[Menarker]

At any rate, we should just focus on the few we have left to decide who our teams are going to bring through the doors. We can more or less discuss who actually get chosen for the later bits of combat later.

From the looks of it, the parties seems to be

Team 1:
Charlotte
Mio (Charlotte's Enforcer)
Matthias
??? (Matthias' Enforcer)
Rachel (Medic)
??? (Shock Trooper. Probably Discord, Kyrie or perhaps Mika)

Team 2:
Impact
??? (Impact's Enforcer)
Renny
Whitney (Renny's enforcer)
Lola (Medic)
Mirror (Engineer)


So, we need to hear from Dante and from Gem about their choice of enforcers.

[Geminex]

Hey, why're yoiu insisting that we take mirror? We're getting Elizabeth later, aren't we? She's just as good. Why would we need 2 engies? They're not going to be that effective in the first few battles, I think. Pretty small-scale stuff. I think taking engie instead of Shock Trooper would not be very smart at all.

And why's team 1 taking Rachel? We've overused her last mission. Again, Angelo isn't any less effective, why not give him a chance?

[Dracorion]

Seeing as how our choice of NPCs for the final battle is dependent on the NPCs we bring initially, someone might wanna take Angelo.

Thoughts on Shock Trooper?

[Menarker]

Well, Bard expressed interest in Kyrie and Discord for roleplaying factor, although Discord has the bonus against humanoids and Kyrie hits for all types and is very evasive.

I suggested Mika at first because she has a wide variety of attacks, her RDPA is all offensive powerful AOE moves, her techs have some utility especially if we can get her at 100 rage to turn an entire round of enemy attacks into healing instead. And the main reason? Her pokemon Mewthree cannot be hurt except by offensive ghost, dark, bug moves and some status moves. Oh, and she counterattacks if she is hit by a status like poison.

I didn't know that Elizabeth would be coming later. If it can be confirmed by Drac that she will, I wouldn't mind switching Mirror for Mika.

[Geminex]

Eh, nevermind about Liz. We're not supposed to be relying on OOC knowlege to make these choices. It would not only be bad role-playing, it might go wrong in tons of other ways!

Right?
Drac?
;)

So ok, I'll take Mirror. And probably Kurika as my enforcer again, just because she has pretty good physical attacks. Damn you, Bard, for taking Mio. Damn you.

Have the other team take Angelo as their medic, and whoever Bard prefers as their Shock trooper.

[Menarker]

Hmmm... not trying to be a spoilsport, but we might be taking the wrong approach with this if we ARE trying to use OOC info.

You guys say that the Poison Ruin General Grax is going to be one of the foes near the end, right?

Rayleen commented that Grax's poison is so toxic that just being near him causes significant health problems. I can only imagine that contact moves are going to be counterproductive in that you not only have to get close to him, but you'd actually be TOUCHING him.
And yet we're choosing Attack boosting engineer and a melee only enforcer as part of the team?

Mind you, there ARE some attack based moves that don't make contact like the Super Effective Earthquake as Rock Slide and even a few others.

Although it'll be good early on since we still need enough punching power to get through with a smaller party.

[Dracorion]

Right?
Drac?
;)

ALL RIGHT FINE.

NOW I WON'T TELL YOU EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE UP AGAINST FOR THE FAYNOC BATTLE.

SEE IF I EVER GIVE YOU OOC KNOWLEDGE AGAIN.

[Menarker]

Looking back on Mirror, she has immunity to poison status and resistance to poison type. That makes her potentially useful defensively.


So yeah, Team 2 has pretty much been finalized.

Team 2:
Impact
Kurika (Impact's Enforcer)
Renny
Whitney (Renny's enforcer)
Lola (Medic)
Mirror (Engineer)


Anyhow, the rest of the choices is pretty much up to Bard and Dante. They have 3 choices to make.

Team 1:
Charlotte
Mio (Charlotte's Enforcer)
Matthias
??? (Matthias' Enforcer) Which enforcer or sniper character?
??? (Medic) Angelo or Rachel? Or someone else entirely like Melanie?
??? (Shock Trooper) Discord, Kyrie, Mika? Or someone else entirely? Dante and Bard were heavily leaning toward Kyrie.

Dante, choose your enforcer already! Don't make us guess again! =P Don't forget you can choose a sniper as an enforcer for this mission if you want to.

[Astral Harmony]

Heh, AB, I think you forgot to address why Twiloch and Marionata are with the Watchmen now. Or do you mean to do that later, and that's why they're not available for the DSS right now?

Oh, and I forgot to slap you in the wrist for missing the perfect opportunity for a three way battle last mission. For shame, AB, for shame.

I don't need to address every single new ally.

And I'm afraid I don't follow your second point. Are you trying to get Pierce laid yet again?

[Dracorion]

Yes.

But also, no. I'm just saying a battle royale with Major Grant, Discord, Lucian and Crownlegs on one side; Mio, Moera and the Asuras on the other and the Watchmen caught in the middle would've been nice.

I know why you didn't do that, and it's okay, but it would've been nice.

[Menarker]

http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/Rob/ash.jpg

Nothing more need to be said about Pierce.

[Dracorion]

I don't know why I see Ash smiling in the last panel of that comic.

I really don't know.

[DanteFalcon]

Gem. IC it makes more sense for us to take Rachel currently because we do know her better. I know you could make the argument that Angelo technically doesn't know Pierce as well so he could be more objective but I think Matt can be objective enough for them.

Menarker. Is it wrong that I want to hear the entire briefing before deciding on the character who could and quite probably will save my ass?

[Dracorion]

Dante, if we only took the characters we already know we're going to get bored FAST.

[DanteFalcon]

Pardon me for trying to not let OOC influence IC.

[Dracorion]

IC? I think these people who are our teammates might feel pretty bad if we keep taking Rachel on missions instead of them.

I mean, come on. I dunno about Matt, but I very much doubt Renny or Pierce or even Impact would mind bringing Angelo or Melanie or Shannon or Aster along, even without OOC-influence on our part.

[DanteFalcon]

Just throwing my 2 cents in.

I vote Kyrie for shock trooper and my enforcer is Cecilia. I'll let Bard muddle through this medic mess.

Edit: Your use of Aster in there is misleading since he was my enforcer last mission

[Bard The 5th LW]

I vote Kyrie as well.

Like I said, I really like the idea of using Rachel. Angelo just doesn't seem as useful. I'll look it over I guess.

[Dracorion]

True, but you didn't have much of a choice, familiarity-wise, did you?

It was either Aster, or Garus, or Hector, or Muon.

[DanteFalcon]

He would know both Garus and Hector better technically even if he only met them briefly.

Aster is just closer personality wise.

Also work to do. Back later.

[Dracorion]

I vote Kyrie as well.

Like I said, I really like the idea of using Rachel. Angelo just doesn't seem as useful. I'll look it over I guess.

Well, the point of using Angelo is that he can give out free status heals and we haven't used him before.

Besides, do you have any idea how much of a pain it's going to be to get Rachel up to 100 Rage?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Actually, Melanie looks like she is worth giving a try.

Sure Angelo can heal free status effects, but that seems to really be the most use he has.

[Astral Harmony]

I have duty tomorrow, so I'm going to use tonight's post to throw you all into Millenium House and straight into the fighting, whether you've made your final decisions or not.

[Menarker]

True, but you didn't have much of a choice, familiarity-wise, did you?

It was either Aster, or Garus, or Hector, or Muon.

AB also enabled snipers to be enforcers for this mission.

So you could also choose Evangaleen, Calisto, Wilhelmina among any other allowed Snipers.

And Dante, I didn't mean that you had to be pressured to choose your enforcer before checking out the meeting, but last mission you pretty much didn't announce who your enforcer was until we were already in combat. Plus, I thought AB would have problems trying to write his post if we hadn't decided on our characters

Not that it matters too much anyhow since most of the selections seem to have been made. Kyrie has been selected for Shock Trooper and apparently Cecilia has been selected for Enforcer. As for the medic, Bard seem to have chosen Melanie.

[Astral Harmony]

Bard wants Melanie? That's going to be one interesting pair.

[Dracorion]

At least she's not on the same team as Renny.

[Menarker]

Charlotte was already with Renny in Mission 2. It worked out... ok. ^^;

[Dracorion]

I meant Melanie.

Though, she's on the same team as Mio. That could be fun.

[Astral Harmony]

Having trouble decided what exactly I want you guys to face first. But go ahead and pose your questions, finalize your teams as needed, and we'll kick the party off once I get off of duty.

[Menarker]

Well, Gem, guessing Impact will be the group's leader for a while. Hopefully Impact won't ask anyone to do anything questionable, especially after the conversation that we sent on PM. Whitney will be fighting Renny's share.

[Dracorion]

I'm fairly certain Renny's meant to meet up with the team before they're heading out.

Or do you expect him to waltz into Millenium House, skipping around the hallways without a care in the world until he catches up with his team?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Approval now plz?

I'm tried of my requests being ignored! (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpost.php?p=1076676&postcount=102)

Also, is Phantomere accompanying Charlotte this mission?

[Dracorion]

Here's a question:

Why are some of us banned?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Because we are very bad people.

[Dracorion]

Well, obviously.

But why only now? And why not Menarker or AB? They're just as bad as us in their own ways!

[Bard The 5th LW]

WELL WE WILL FIGHT BACK REGARDLESS! (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=38866)

[Menarker]

Bard, in regards of you seeking approval.

TeslaHound: I'm fine with the stats no problem. Do you have any wish to upgrade its ability like Pierce did with Adamanitar or I would do for Swampert?

CAUGHT ON TAPE: The only thing about this is that I don't recall there being any set rules that allows us to figure out how much drop of Morale each attack or successful KO or status affliction is worth. Thus it would be hard to moderate/control and it might lead to arguments on whether a specific turn should have been more or less effective. In addition, this ability seems to effect the entire formation.

What I am tempted to suggest is that it only effects one target for 2-3 turns (although you could use this move each turn) but they are treated as one level lower on the MIV scale and with none of the advantages of that level. So if the formation of the group is considered "High", and you use this technique on a certain non-boss target, that target counts as low morale instead and thus takes longer to recover from status and may occasionally suffer from fear and they won't gain extra rage like normal.
On the other hand, if the formation was already low, and you use it on them, treat that specific target as if they were suffering from Overwhelming Tide. They are much more likely to run away, no rage generation or status recovery, restricted from using moves that require cool-down or charge-up and that sort of thing.
And if the foes were already suffering from Overwhelming Tide when you use it? Hmmm... for mooks, you can probably make them run away. For other more important foes or PCs/NPCs, probably some sort of stat reduction or increased fear chance.


As for Kick the Dog, the way it currently is seems pretty powerful when you consider how Charlotte can use it on one of her pokemons and someone could heal up her pokemon right after. The bonus of increasing a total of six stats per turn seem an awful lot too. Even

My best suggestion would probably be for you to be able to give up to 3 stat boost increases to either Speed, Attack or Special Attack, putting no more than 2 on a single stat. but you must also decrease the pokemon's defense and special defense by 1.
Meaning, you could put +2 Attack boost and 1 speed boost or two special attack boost and 1 attack boost or something like that. But your pokemon's ability to take hits weaken. So your pokemon would have to finish the foes in question before they get knocked out, or be protected by someone. One particular plus to this is that you can use this ability even if your pokemon is mere inch from fainting.


Any thoughts on this?


And boy, I was worried that Drac, Gem (yup, he's red named too) and Bard actually got banned for real and we'd either have to put the RP on hold or dedicate a new star for the mission.

[Dracorion]

Clearly the new hero would be Matthias.

[Astral Harmony]

I knew they were fake-banned. Dracorian, sure, but Geminex and Bard as well? No effin' way.

I guess I kind of leave all the balancing issues to Geminex and Menarker, anyways. They're pretty much epic when it comes to settling Ye Olde Balancing Issues.

[Dracorion]

I love you too, AB.

[Menarker]

Thanks for the compliment. ^^ Pretty sure Gem would appreciate it too.

Anyhow, since none of us have actually been banned, I guess the quest will continue as soon as AB finishes writing up the post.

AB, for your reference the teams seem to be as following:

Team 1:
Charlotte
Mio (Charlotte's Enforcer)
Matthias
Cecilia (Matthias' Enforcer)
Kyrie (Shock Trooper)
Melanie (Medic)

Team 2:
Impact
Kurika (Impact's Enforcer)
Renny
Whitney (Renny's Enforcer)
Lola (Medic)
Mirror (Engineer)

[Bard The 5th LW]

As of now, Kick The Dog increases Special Attack, Speed, and Attack. I'm willing to remove one, or turn it into a selective thing though.

Caught on Tape does feel a bit OP. However, can we focus it on one foe? Isn't morale shared by the entire team?

And I have a special ability in mind. what do you think of this?

Rerouted

The Master of Electricity is here. Nothing gets past Pike as he evolves into Teslahound! Any time an attack that deals electric damage is issued by the enemy force, it is brought straight to Pike, who can then send it back out to deal 25% of the damage at a target of its own choice.

[Dracorion]

I believe Menarker's logic is that attacks that damage the target affected by Caugh On Tape would deal increased morale damage, as opposed to hitting an enemy that wasn't affected.

Yeah, morale is shared, but that doesn't mean it can't affect one target.

Also, would Pike's ability mean he doesn't take damage from Electric attacks?

[Bard The 5th LW]

Yes.

[Menarker]

I believe Menarker's logic is that attacks that damage the target affected by Caugh On Tape would deal increased morale damage, as opposed to hitting an enemy that wasn't affected.

Yeah, morale is shared, but that doesn't mean it can't affect one target.

That's not what I meant in terms of CAUGHT ON TAPE.

Let me see if if I can't explain things a bit better...


Morale Integrity Value (MIV) determines how the amount of morale shared by the group will effect each individual based on the tier level of the MIV the formation is in.


TIER ONE: When morale is high... Around 100-51%?

- Status effects take less time to be cured (health of the individual no longer applies).
- The move Return is most effective. The move Frustration is least effective.
- All characters can take action as normal.
- Rage builds normally.


TIER TWO: When morale is low... 50-1%?

- Status effects take more time to be cured.
- The move Frustration is most effective. The move Return is least effective.
- Characters may occasionally forfeit turns from Fear. Low morale is the only time this status effect comes into play.
- Rage builds with a x2 multiplier.
- Moves that require charge times and cooldowns will no longer require this.
- Enemy characters may flee.



TIER 3: When the MIV is reduced to 0%, the condition Overwhelming Tide is applied. There are conditions for this as well:

- Status effects cannot be cured over time.
- Return cannot be used. Frustration will always strike with a critical hit.
- Enemy characters are more likely to run away.
- Rage building shuts down entirely.
- Moves with charge times and cooldowns cannot be used.
- Overwhelming Tide lasts for 3 turns in which the MIV returns to 50% Morale.

So basically at any one point in the battle where MIV is being measured, the entire formation fits in one of these tiers.

Example 1: If the enemy formation has a MIV of 64% using my example above, then they count as Tier 1 or High Morale. Everything proceeds as normal. They gain rage normally and recover fairly quickly and that sort of thing.

Example 2: However, if the enemy formation has a MIV of 32%, then they are all Tier 2. This means that they have double rage generation, occasionally become fearful, and all other benefits and flaws that come with it.


What I was proposing for CAUGHT ON TAPE is for Charlotte to force any single non-boss and presumably non-mechanical foe to be have a morale effect 1 Tier lower than the rest of the formation for 2 or 3 turns.

Example 1 Amended: If the formation has 64% MIV as mentioned above, but Charlotte uses my proposed version of CAUGHT ON TAPE, then that specific foe actually counts as TIER 2 instead of Tier 1 like the rest of the formation. In addition, benefits like extra rage generation do not become awarded to said target.

Example 2 Amended: If the formation has 32% MIV and Charlotte uses the move, then the target drops down to Tier 3 AKA Overwhelming Tide even though the rest of the formation is at Tier 2.


A lot less math-work. Heck, it's practically no math involved. Simple and easy to work out.

Rerouted

The Master of Electricity is here. Nothing gets past Pike as he evolves into Teslahound! Any time an attack that deals electric damage is issued by the enemy force, it is brought straight to Pike, who can then send it back out to deal 25% of the damage at a target of its own choice.

As for Teslahound's special ability. It seems like an improved version of the Lightning Rod ability combined with the defensive ability of Volt Absorb or Motor Drive, negating damage. I got no problem with this.

As of now, Kick The Dog increases Special Attack, Speed, and Attack. I'm willing to remove one, or turn it into a selective thing though.

That's kinda what I proposed with my version. Basically each time you use my version, you get to put put 3 +1 stage bonuses on your pokemon on either of those 3 stats, although no more than 2 at a time on a single stat. However, instead of losing health, your pokemon get a negative stat penalty on defense and special defense. So, you get 3 bonuses and 2 penalties, although your pokemon doesn't lose health.

Although I might be willing to increase the bonus to 4, if Gem agrees with me.