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View Full Version : The Army, come kill for a thrill


Wigmund
10-01-2010, 06:39 AM
So yeah, apparently some soldiers serving in Afghanistan have been hunting civilians for trophies and taking pictures of their bodies.

From CNN.com (http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/09/30/afghanistan.killings.father/index.html?hpt=T2)
Father: Frustrated in trying to raise alarm about soldiers
Washington (CNN) -- Christopher Winfield said he tried to raise the alarm about an alleged thrill-kill cult inside the U.S. military in Afghanistan but that his calls went to voice mail and his warnings were ignored.

In an interview with CNN's Chris Lawrence, Winfield described his repeated attempts to warn the military about what was going on in the unit his son, Spc. Adam Winfield, was serving with.

Winfield said his son, serving with a Stryker Brigade, learned that some fellow soldiers were killing civilians for sport, collecting body parts of their victims and taking photos of their exploits. And the father feared his son would be killed by his squad leader and other fellow soldiers if he tried to stop them.

"We should be the good guys fighting the bad guys," Christopher Winfield said Thursday at the suburban Washington offices of the law firm handling his son's defense. "We shouldn't be the bad guys."

In the quiet of a small conference room, Winfield -- a former Marine himself -- appeared to choke up as he watched video obtained by CNN's Special Investigative Unit of his son being questioned by Army interrogators. His son is accused of killing one Afghan civilian. He admits he fired his rifle but claims he purposely aimed high and missed. Other soldiers face three murder charges and a variety of drug and other offenses.

"He looks beat, worn down," Winfield said about his son. He talked about how Adam always loved the military, even as a child choosing a military uniform for Halloween. "It's something he always wanted to do. He thinks it is an honorable thing."

Feeling pressure to participate in the killings and fearing for his own life, the son asked his parents in Cape Coral, Florida, for help.

In a Facebook exchange with his mother, shared with CNN, Adam Winfield said he was told: shut up ...or else.

"They planned and got away with murder once already -- I'm sure they could do it again. They don't want to go to prison," Adam Winfield wrote in one message.

"Do this: Tell them that you won't tell. Just ask for a transfer or something," his mother replied.

"It doesn't work that way Mom. You can't just ask to move -- we're already short-handed as it is," the soldier wrote back.

The father told CNN he reached out to an Army hotline and a member of Congress but was shunted to voice mail both times and never got a response.

The father did speak to a staff sergeant at his son's home base, the command center at Fort Lewis in Washington. He received what he described as a brushoff and was told his son should try to avoid the soldiers and wait until he cycled back to the United States.

"I told him the whole story: Adam is in Afghanistan and there is apparently a rogue sergeant that is killing innocent people and he is threatening my son and you need to get him out of there, do something," the elder Winfeld said of his conversation.

But the Fort Lewis contact said Adam should lie low, according to Christopher Winfield.

"He said, 'Stay away from the staff sergeant, and keep your head down and when you get back in four months, you can report it in safety,'" Christopher Winfield said. "My jaw hit the floor when I heard that, and it's just, 'You gotta be kidding me,' and he said, 'That's all I can do.'"

The Army is investigating the call, CNN has learned, looking at who received Winfield's warning of a possible war crime underway, and what happened to follow it up.

"We take what the father says very seriously. We know for a fact that he did call, and phone records prove the first call to Fort Lewis headquarters lasted seven to eight minutes. The commander at Lewis-McCord started an immediate investigation. He also called Army CID (criminal investigation) as well, they've started a separate investigation into the calls," an Army official said.

One of Adam Winfield's lawyers, Eric Montalvo, says Adam fell into the middle of a serial-killer cult, what he described as "a culture of terror, fear and death."

"The army is standing at the precipice of one of the most tragic circumstances they have ever encountered as an institution," Montalvo said. "They have a small opportunity to make this right."

Montalvo and others worry that if photos are made public of the killings and the mutilations of the bodies, it will eclipse reaction to abuses at the Iraqi prison Abu Ghraib, in terms of international outcry and negative feeling against the U.S. military.

For Christopher Winfield, each day churns up questions about whether he -- or his son -- could have done more to intervene, and to stop the killings.

"It's easy for someone to sit in a safe area, you know back here in the States to say that," Winfield said. "But when you are put in that kind of position where you have the good guys threatening to kill you and the bad guys threatening to kill you and you are stuck in the middle and you are 21 years old and you've got this monster of a man, 6-foot-4, 245-pound psychopath sergeant that is controlling your every move then, no, I don't think he could have done anything else."

Meanwhile the Winfield family -- the mother and father in Florida and the son held at Fort Lewis -- await word of the Army investigation and a Article 32 hearing set for next month that will determine whether a court martial will follow. But at least the family is relieved that Adam made it home alive.

"You have the Talilban trying to kill you and you have your own guys threatening to kill you," the elder Winfield said. "He had no chance and we were scared to death."

Digging through more articles about this:
From CNN: the Sergeant leading this particular unit tracked his kills with skull tattoos and is a fucking white supremacist (http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americas/09/30/afghanistan.killings.sergeant/index.html?iref=obinsite).
From the Guardian: US soldiers 'killed Afghan civilians for sport and collected fingers as trophies' (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/sep/09/us-soldiers-afghan-civilians-fingers)

You know what, screw worrying about the fact that this is worse than Abu Ghraib. This needs to be out in the open and the monsters responsible for doing this need to be put down. It's incredibly sad that our worst enemy in both Iraq and Afghanistan has been our own military and the mercenaries we hire.

Thoughts and reactions?

Kim
10-01-2010, 06:43 AM
You mean desensitizing people to death, training them to kill, giving them weapons, and then telling them the brown people are the bad guys results in some seriously fucked up shit happening? Who could have predicted this?

Professor Smarmiarty
10-01-2010, 06:48 AM
The Army murders civilains for shits and giggles? Oh my this has never happened in the history of mankind before.
Like this is what the Army does and has always done.

krogothwolf
10-01-2010, 10:03 AM
The Army murders civilains for shits and giggles? Oh my this has never happened in the history of mankind before.
Like this is what the Army does and has always done.

They seem to have forgotten about the raping and pillaging though. Tsk Tsk, for shame on the modern army for only selectively following the proud traditions of an invading force.

Magus
10-01-2010, 11:07 AM
There are multiple allegations of rape against U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq, as well. I'm too depressed to look them up.

The Sevenshot Kid
10-01-2010, 06:41 PM
You mean desensitizing people to death, training them to kill, giving them weapons, and then telling them the brown people are the bad guys results in some seriously fucked up shit happening? Who could have predicted this?

I'm just gonna say this, I have friends and family in the army and they are the best people I know and they would gladly put themselves before anyone else. And you know what, people like them are the majority. The psychopaths who hunt people for support are a very small minority and you better believe that they'll be dealt with accordingly.

For something like this, execution by firing squad seems most appropriate.

CABAL49
10-01-2010, 07:02 PM
I'm just gonna say this, I have friends and family in the army and they are the best people I know and they would gladly put themselves before anyone else. And you know what, people like them are the majority. The psychopaths who hunt people for support are a very small minority and you better believe that they'll be dealt with accordingly.


This. Both of my brothers and one of my best friends are Army. While my brothers may be dicks they are still decent people.

Fifthfiend
10-02-2010, 05:51 PM
You mean desensitizing people to death, training them to kill, giving them weapons, and then telling them the brown people are the bad guys results in some seriously fucked up shit happening? Who could have predicted this?

It might not be so bad if the military weren't also ignoring its own standards re: not recruiting people with gang tattoos, prison records, histories of white supremacy (http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2009/06/15/neo_nazis_army), etc.

Kim
10-02-2010, 05:56 PM
But at least we're still making sure to kick out any gays we find, am I right?

Fifthfiend
10-02-2010, 06:11 PM
Well if we didn't they'd make the Neo-Nazis all uncomfortable

Nique
10-02-2010, 06:53 PM
And you know what, people like them are the majority

So are healthy cells but Cancer still spreads. This...

You mean desensitizing people to death, training them to kill, giving them weapons, and then telling them the brown people are the bad guys results in some seriously fucked up shit happening? Who could have predicted this?

... is a fair statment.

Kim
10-02-2010, 07:14 PM
I'm just gonna say this, I have friends and family in the army and they are the best people I know and they would gladly put themselves before anyone else. And you know what, people like them are the majority. The psychopaths who hunt people for support are a very small minority and you better believe that they'll be dealt with accordingly.

This. Both of my brothers and one of my best friends are Army. While my brothers may be dicks they are still decent people.

I didn't say anything about the frequency. This is the same kind of response I've seen elsewhere in response to my statements, as though knowing people who aren't sociopaths disproves what I say. I am anti-military, but the statement I made there is exactly what it says. The purpose of the military is to turn the people in it into soldiers who will kill other people on order. This is fact. These sort of incidents have occurred throughout history, are happening now, and will happen in the future. This is fact. It is one of the natural results of having a military. Just because your anecdotal evidence says most of them are decent guys, which they probably are, doesn't change that fact. Just because I'm criticizing the military or what the military system causes does not mean I am criticizing your brothers/family/friends in the military, and you shouldn't assume that is what I'm saying.

POS Industries
10-02-2010, 10:13 PM
While I believe that it was not your intention, the way you phrased it was in a manner that would lead to that assumption. It happens.

DFM
10-02-2010, 10:13 PM
I have a friend in the army I will ask him if eating brown people gives him their tiger powers.

Osterbaum
10-03-2010, 04:41 AM
This sort of stuff is propably a lot different in armed forces that are at war and armed forces that aren't. Some differences between different countries and cultures aswell, I would assume.

Aerozord
10-03-2010, 10:29 AM
personally I think punishment for crimes like this should be more severe. Armed forces are supposed to be on a tighter leash... though this is murder so I guess we dont have a harsher punishment. You didn't have to share this for me to know this thing was happening. War is horrible, but atleast some of these people were caught. Normally the winning side just brushes these events under the table

Now I'm just waiting for news networks to arbitrarily link this to video games

Magus
10-03-2010, 09:41 PM
I dunno, sometimes I think white supremacists who tally their killings of civilians by getting skull tattoos for each one killed would be bad people who murder even if they weren't in the military.

Jus' sayin'.

The problem with the military is they give people like that assault rifles and command positions.

EDIT: They'd even be killers if they didn't play vidyagames!

DFM
10-04-2010, 12:30 AM
He said there aren't any tigers or tiger powers there that he's seen and also asked if I still had his PS2 I lied and said it's at his parents.

Magic_Marker
10-04-2010, 12:41 PM
Lets try not being evil America.


Just this once.

Death by Stabbing
10-04-2010, 02:54 PM
I am just flat out disgusted. It has been said that the first truth to die in war is the fact that your enemies are also people. But these people who are getting killed aren't combatants.

The army does teach people to kill there is no doubt about that. However, people aren't taught to kill civilians in the army. Obviously this person is a sick and twisted individual who needs to be committed to a mental health facility. Or jail, though he probably won't get the help he needs there.

The fact of the matter is that the army is ill-equipped to deal with situations like this one. These guys are out there on the front lines where there are no cops (aside from MPs but it doesn't seem like they are involved at this point for some reason) to take this guy in. No places to have this guy committed. The staff sergeant could only advise that young man to keep his head down, because there's no protocol in place for things like this. Just as there was none for what happened in the prisons.

The army likes to talk about how great their plans and contingency plans are. The upper brass believe (and would have us believe) that everyone is the model solider because of how great their training and planning is. But when things fall outside of the plan things start to fall apart. This is what happened in Vietnam and this is what is happening right now. The army doesn't have flexible thinking. They believe that all things all the time will fit into the boxes they have constructed. Now a guy is running around killing the people who our army is supposed to be protecting from terrorism, not terrorizing, and all the army does is shrug its shoulders and say "well, we're looking into it."

I hope you are...but is seems like the alacrity that is needed to do something about this isn't there. I mean checking phone records to make sure this guy is telling the truth? How about getting this guy away from people? I mean if someone told the police here that a guy is killing people and taking trophies you think they'd sit on their asses looking at phone records to make sure of something that they already knew? No they'd bring the guy in.

This makes wonder if this guy would be killing people back in America too...though he probably would have been caught by now...or at least there would be a real investigation.

We probably won't be getting out of there anytime soon...which we absolutely should but the military industrial complex wants to make even more money and has bought many politicians. But is it too much to ask that our military personnel act like humans?

DBS

Sun-Wukong
10-17-2010, 01:32 AM
I just got that rare sinking feeling in my gut, that kind of feeling where you think shit just got real. I'm disgusted, and I hope that dog gets put down like he deserves to be.

Odjn
10-17-2010, 02:23 AM
You mean desensitizing people to death, training them to kill, giving them weapons, and then telling them the brown people are the bad guys results in some seriously fucked up shit happening? Who could have predicted this?

Welcome to every army ever.

The Army murders civilains for shits and giggles? Oh my this has never happened in the history of mankind before.
Like this is what the Army does and has always done.

Welcome to every army ever.

They seem to have forgotten about the raping and pillaging though. Tsk Tsk, for shame on the modern army for only selectively following the proud traditions of an invading force.

Welcome to every army ever.

MuMu
10-17-2010, 02:56 AM
Don't think that's going to blow anyone's mind, specially someone that has explicitly stated to be anti-military.

Odjn
10-17-2010, 03:17 AM
Don't think that's going to blow anyone's mind, specially someone that has explicitly stated to be anti-military.

Actually I'm just going by historical record by this point.