So thunder Cats remake

[Kyanbu The Legend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rWrh1axPj0M

apparently. it's coming out this year and there was a trailer shown on cartoon network that I never saw (and I watch it EVERY day sadly)

This is the second remake project I've seen. The first being a project set after the events of the original show that was being made by the creator of Spectacular Spiderman. (It didn't fly and was canned quickly before even being announced and yes I'm bad with names).

So, anyone have any faith in this? I think this is where that anime pic of lion-o came from.

[Flarecobra]

I think I got a pic that showed my exact expression when I saw that.

Ah, here it is.

http://sadpanda.us/images/383204-0MWTW94.jpg

Seriously. I LOVED the campiness of the origional. Personally, I'm hoping this "Remake" flops.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Given that the first project died flat on it's feet. This one just might not make it past season 1. Though this one might be more serious then the original from the looks of it.

Kinda want that other one staring a COMPLETELY different main set FAR in the future where skeletor apparently came back and someone had to fight him. And it was being made by the guy that made SPECTACULAR FUCKING SPIDERMAN! That show had HOPE beyond belief. Why did they axe it!? ;_;

[Aerozord]

Given that the first project died flat on it's feet. This one just might not make it past season 1. Though this one might be more serious then the original from the looks of it.


Its a story about cat people from space fighting a mummy and his anthropamorphic minions. Kind of hard to make a serious story about that.

Though honestly plot of the series never made any sense. You just went along with the ride, shouldn't try to get anything coherent from it

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Ain't gonna stop them from trying from the looks of it.


EDIT: More info folks.

http://www.reelcomix.com/2011/02/trailer-highlyanticipated-thundercats-remake-airs-tv/

http://gnews.com/new-thundercats-artwork-on-the-loose-16201145011426/

[Bells]

I think this has as much of a chance as the He Man remake had.

Remember the He Man Remake? yeah...

Also i get a HUGE "Avatar" vibe out of that trailer...

But can we please focus on the actual important issue in this?

The new Cheetara, Hotter than the previous. yes or no?

http://widget.uproxx.com/b/5/http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/?attachment_id=22324http://i52.tinypic.com/rcj6l3.jpg

Also, Why she looks like a Naruto Shippuden refugee?

also... WHY THE FUCK IS TYGRA HOLDING A GUN!?

[Aerozord]

The new Cheetara, Hotter than the previous. yes or no?

http://widget.uproxx.com/b/5/http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/?attachment_id=22324http://i52.tinypic.com/rcj6l3.jpg


well she's certainly wearing even less clothing now.

[Locke cole]

Does Panthro look like Jet Black to anyone else?

[Fifthfiend]

There are basically two things about the original Thundercats that mattered

1. Panthro is obviously the best
2. Snarf, secretly, is also the best.

Series has failed at 1, will probably fail at 2.

[Gregness]

Hmm, I think I prefer new cheetara what with the long hair and all, but that's not exactly a great picture to use to compare the two. Though I actually disagree with the less clothing bit. Sure, maybe there's a touch less skin coverage (and I mean http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQG56n6MT1Qyi6PlA7cioyLR51KW1OYK GMrSMtBY17CFxzxRbTML4xyJk-xsQ) but her old outfit was completely skin tight and so I think I prefer the new one that actually looks like clothes.

Panthro does look like Jet. I just hope they don't do the trendy thing of making the strong guy like 50% bigger than the rest of the cast. OldPanthro was actually about the same size as the rest of them.

@bells: the He-Man remake kicked ass.

[Locke cole]

There are basically two things about the original Thundercats that mattered

1. Panthro is obviously the best
2. Snarf, secretly, is also the best.

Series has failed at 1, will probably fail at 2.

Have we seen Panthro do anything other than be on a poster yet? I mean, he still has time to ride a tank and be awesome.

[bluestarultor]

I think this has as much of a chance as the He Man remake had.

Remember the He Man Remake? yeah...

Also i get a HUGE "Avatar" vibe out of that trailer...

But can we please focus on the actual important issue in this?

The new Cheetara, Hotter than the previous. yes or no?

http://widget.uproxx.com/b/5/http://warmingglow.uproxx.com/?attachment_id=22324http://i52.tinypic.com/rcj6l3.jpg

Also, Why she looks like a Naruto Shippuden refugee?

also... WHY THE FUCK IS TYGRA HOLDING A GUN!?

Cheetara actually looks pretty okay. A little young, IMO (same goes for Lion-O), but there's nothing really "wrong" with the design, even if it does look better for WilyKit/WilyKat with the thief thing going. Also, I think it's not covering less so much as it's a yellow spandex suit covered by shorts and a vest, looking at the racing stripes on her legs and comparing the yellow of her legs with the yellow of her torso.

It is great that the Bolo Whip and chucks are the same, but Tygra also looks too young in the face and oh, God, why is he dressed like a space marine JESUS CHRIST PANTHRO HAS AN UGLY BALD AND TOPKNOT AND SIDEBURNS AND IS DRESSED LIKE A BARBARIAN SAMURAI WHY DOES TYGRA HAVE A GUN AAAAAAAH!


Japan, why must you ruin my childhood? T_T






EDIT: I take it back: I guess from other art, Cheetara does, in fact, have a bare midriff, at least at some point. Here's hoping the stripes aren't some contrived belt apparatus.

Also, Gregness, yes, from a different pic, they totally made Panthro 50% bigger than the rest of the cast. But it's Japan, so while sad, no surprise there.

They've boiled the whole cast down to token, marketable tropes from the looks of it. Lion-O looks to the the stereotypical young hero, Panthro is the team beef, Cheetara looks to be a stereotypical thief, and Tygra looks like a tactical specialist. The Thunderkittens are shown in the trailer only as a flash wearing cloaks, so zero hints there, and Snarf looks to have been degraded into the Japanese "team pet."

The whole thing has gone "dark and edgy."


Excuse me while I go cry more.

[Bells]

Panthro does look like Jet. I just hope they don't do the trendy thing of making the strong guy like 50% bigger than the rest of the cast.

Funny how that's exactly what they did

http://www.secretlytimid.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/thundercats2.jpg

[Aerozord]

Snarf looks to have been degraded into the Japanese "team pet."

downgraded? thats what he pretty much always was.

[RobinStarwing]

o_O
O_o

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

http://webpages.charter.net/smerrow/posters/cloning.jpg

And too boot, we have Genetic Modification Raping of a perfectly fine Childhood memory on top of the cloning...

Cartoon Network...you've gone astray. You must bring back the awesomeness that was Toonami! Than you will hopefully find your way again to good stuff.

[Locke cole]

What?

Unless there's a cloning plot somewhere in this new show, I think you just meme'd your post into incomprehensibility.

[bluestarultor]

downgraded? thats what he pretty much always was.

Well, yes, he was always the team pet, but not a Japanese team pet. He's got the entire gigantic sparkly eyes thing going there and looks about 10 years old, generously.

Our Snarf at least looked like an adult of his species. This new thing looks like it'll be replacing Ls and Rs with Ws.

[Aerozord]

This new thing looks like it'll be replacing Ls and Rs with Ws.

at the risk of getting some flame hate, thats still a step up from saying your own name at the end of every sentence

[Flarecobra]

o_O
O_o

Whiskey Tango Foxtrot?

http://webpages.charter.net/smerrow/posters/cloning.jpg

And too boot, we have Genetic Modification Raping of a perfectly fine Childhood memory...

http://sadpanda.us/images/383223-KX8A73T.jpg

Yeah, you may have to explain that one.

[RobinStarwing]

They have all the old characters but than changed it completely by mixing in what looks like stuff rejected from Airbender as someone said it had that look to it and they are right.

Leave it to Naga to completely ruin what I was saying though.

If that doesn't help...just blame it on the fact my brain is doing a full restart after seeing the trailer.

[Bells]

you know... now that you mentioned... i'm sure there are better parallels but i DO get a "Bebop" vibe from Panthro and Tygra... And yes, Cheetara and Lion-o looks like a mix of Airbender + Naruto...

it's... weird. Overall, just weird... not bad. Just... weird.

And Lion-o is the one that looks least like a feline at all...

EDIT:

FYI the director is the same guy behind Teen Titans and Ben10... so you already know what to expect regarding plots and Zany humor

[RobinStarwing]

I love the humor in Ben 10 and especially Ultimate Alien in how they manage to get a good sniping at Glenn Beck.

[Gregness]

I actually like Lion-o's new design, and I don't mind that they're trying to differentiate the cast a bit. After all, the old thundercats (the dudes anyway) all had pretty much the same body type even though there's the strong guy, the smart guy, and what have you.

I do wish they wouldn't take it to these extremes though.

[Fifthfiend]

Have we seen Panthro do anything other than be on a poster yet? I mean, he still has time to ride a tank and be awesome.

Anyone with those sideburns is objectively un-awesome.

I measured the Awesometrons, it's true.

[RobinStarwing]

Anyone with those sideburns is objectively un-awesome.

I measured the Awesometrons, it's true.

Sideburns?

All I got to say is this...

http://geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/slides/halflings.jpg

Sideburns can still help save the world.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Anyone with those sideburns is objectively un-awesome.


Remain clean shaven is the secret fourth rule of roadhouse

[Melfice]

Anyone with those sideburns is objectively un-awesome.

I measured the Awesometrons, it's true.

:(


:(

[BitVyper]

This looks like it might be.... okay enough for me to cautiously give them a chance with Panthro. They fucked his design up, and I'm sure he won't have his old voice actor, but it is still conceivable that they might MIGHT get his character right. I kinda doubt it, but even if Panthro's fate is sealed, I can endure a couple episodes to check.

cloning

If anything, this looks like a total overhaul of the plot up to possibly rebuilding it entirely.

[bluestarultor]

Sideburns?

All I got to say is this...

http://geneticanomaly.com/RPG-Motivational/slides/halflings.jpg

Sideburns can still help save the world.

Those are less sideburns and more horrible, unshaven mutton chops, and did I mention they took him from "awesome black guy respectable bald" to "dear God, he's got a samurai topknot and is validly losing his hair" bald?


The designs of this think are so incongruous it's sad. Lion-o lost the least in translation, but they still crossed him with Generic European Knight #434. Tygra was crossed with Generic Space Marine #638, Panthro was crossed with Jet Black and Generic Samurai #236, and Cheetara seems to have walked out of Avatar: The Last Airbender #537's closet.

That's totally ignoring that we don't know what WilyKit and WilyKat are wearing under those cloaks.

Say what you will about the original spandex designs, but they were at least internally consistent. This thing looks like it's trying to throw out as much as possible in the "if we cast a wide enough net, it's guaranteed to sell" strategy. It's a mess!



EDIT: Oh, God, I just realized he doesn't even have a topknot. It was just one of his spikes. That makes it even MORE unforgivable.

Seriously, they took probably one of the best, most awesome, most respectable black guys ever from a cartoon and made him ugly as sin. Panthro was a guy who could kick ass and had a brain, too. Here he's relegated to being at best a philosophical warrior what with being the only one of them with battle scars, balding, and otherwise shaggy and unkempt as they could get away with.

[Fifthfiend]

Yeah so it's clear I am not talking about all sideburns, or even all mutton-chop sideburns, but specifically that set of mutton-chop sideburns.

They are un-awesome, a statement of un-awesomeness, and a promise of un-awesomeness to come.

[BitVyper]

Honestly, I think his spikes bug me more than the facial hair. I mean, aside from the fact that they've been trimmed down like five inches, every picture I've seen has them looking like clip art quality.

[Locke cole]

You know, he still could be a mechanic and tank-driver.

Once again, all we've seen of him is his ability to be on a poster. No real confirmation either way on any other qualities.

edit: But yeah, the shortened spikes are something of a letdown. I liked his spikes. Didn't he have a thing where they all flew off his vest on chains and dragged stuff to him like some sort of crazy awesome Hookshot?

[BitVyper]

Besides Panthro, the one they're most likely to severely fuck up is Cheetara, I think. She fell into a pretty narrow range of female characters.

[Locke cole]

All I can remember about Cheetara is runsfast, to be honest.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I can't remember much about her either.

[Fifthfiend]

You know, he still could be a mechanic and tank-driver.

He could certainly still be a not-completely-awesome mechanic and tank driver.

Nothing I have said should be taken as making any assumptions about the particular job and team role he will un-awesomely fill.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Well, least the fights will look awesome. That's... something to look forward to.

[Locke cole]

What if it happens that his team role is to be awesome? How could one even do that un-awesomely?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

He's doesn't look the part, that's how. It becomes a "what do you mean it's not awesome" moment.

[Locke cole]

Hm...

Well played.

[EVILNess]

Fifth your track record of judgment of awesome is spotty at best.

[Locke cole]

I'd say it comes from overreliance on Awesometron readings. The problem is that Awesome has a tendency to change when you measure it.

[bluestarultor]

All I can remember about Cheetara is runsfast, to be honest.

I can't remember much about her either.

Well, aside from the fact that she may have turned roughly 100% of all straight human males furry for the duration of the show, she also had some nifty psychic abilities that manifested every once in a blue moon and was otherwise an incredibly balanced, sensible, capable woman who I can never recall having been made into a damsel in distress. In fact, I can recall at least TWICE Tygra needed specific rescuing (one from a machine that was going to tear him in four, once eating Mumm-Ra hypno-fruit), but no instance of her ever needing any.

Well, least the fights will look awesome. That's... something to look forward to.

Define "awesome."

What if it happens that his team role is to be awesome? How could one even do that un-awesomely?

He's doesn't look the part, that's how. It becomes a "what do you mean it's not awesome" moment.

I believe what you're looking for is more X-Pac Heat.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Improved animation and better special effects though it's too soon to tell.

[akaSM]

All we can do right now is wait and hope it won't be that bad.

Also, Panthro's gorillacat design just doesn't strike me as right, I mean, he was the guy who made the Thundercats' gizmos :/

[RobinStarwing]

Good thing is....

*thinks of something*

*gets a thought*

...it ain't Nickelodeon's remake of Voltron. ^_^ *sweatdrops*

[Kyanbu The Legend]

That actually might not be all that bad though.

[RobinStarwing]

That actually might not be all that bad though.

It's Nickelodeon or need I remind you of that fact? (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?t=38406&highlight=Fairy+Oddparents) As a matter of fact, I think I will quote you from that thread Kyanbu as well as myself.

That he did, and the throne is reserved for whoever thought this was a good idea....>_>

Yes and their evil is beyond human comprehension.

I think this being has moved on to ruining Cartoon Network now as Nickelodeon is done. Their first step was the destruction of Toonami and making their anime block only on Saturday Nights with a lot of Bleach. The rest of the week they gave over to everything that has ever been on Adult Swim that kills brain cells (short of Robot Chicken).

[Kyanbu The Legend]

That's FGP though. It just can't work. But Voltron could... Oh I see what you mean. Yeah that would be horrible, what was I thinking. >_>

[bluestarultor]

All we can do right now is wait and hope it won't be that bad.

Also, Panthro's gorillacat design just doesn't strike me as right, I mean, he was the guy who made the Thundercats' gizmos :/

He was pretty obviously a black guy. Black VA, plus an obviously black facial structure. Him being a panther was just icing. They could have made him a snow leopard and he still would have been a black guy.

All things considered, it really was a very positive portrayal and an easy way to stick some diversity in there when they really wouldn't have had to.

[BitVyper]

and was otherwise an incredibly balanced, sensible, capable woman who I can never recall having been made into a damsel in distress.

Pretty much this exactly. She was mature, graceful, useful, level-headed, quietly wise, and all that stuff you said while still being feminine, which makes her pretty atypical of girls in media even now. She really fits none of the standard archetypes for action girls except in some minor superficial ways.

Cheetara and Panthro were, I think, very well rounded characters, and Panthro had dialogue that would be surprisingly good even today. Character designs aside, I don't have a lot of faith that they'll be done nearly so well in the new series, and that'll pretty much kill it for me.

But I'll still check it out, 'cause it looks like it at least has a shot at being good.

[synkr0nized]

I challenge all of you to go watch the originals and tell me that's not terrible. Like god-awful campy terrible. Did I watch the fuck out of some Thundercats as a kid? Hell yes. Do I still wear a Thundercats shirt semi-regularly? Most definitely.

But it is an awful show.
This "remake" or whatever it ends up being wouldn't have to do much to be better.



Fuckin' Ma-mutt.

[Flarecobra]

But the campyness was part of it's charm!

[bluestarultor]

I challenge all of you to go watch the originals and tell me that's not terrible. Like god-awful campy terrible. Did I watch the fuck out of some Thundercats as a kid? Hell yes. Do I still wear a Thundercats shirt semi-regularly? Most definitely.

But it is an awful show.
This "remake" or whatever it ends up being wouldn't have to do much to be better.



Fuckin' Ma-mutt.

I'm reminded of something one of my own characters said once: "I don't want any part of your 'better.'"

Or, to put it this way, you can make something "better" that is absolutely terrible because it completely destroys everything good and/or sacred from the original. They could have "better" translated "Kisama!!" as "You son of a bitch!!" rather than "You spoony bard!", but that would have destroyed an iconic line.

Thundercats was campy because it was a kids' cartoon. Watch ANY of those and they're campy. But aside from that, it had things that truly were awesome, like some really good characters when you got right down to it. Sure the writing was campy, but the characters really weren't.

[synkr0nized]

I get the impression you think I'm holding a children's cartoon to the kind of standards more meant for typical television and/or movie entertainment. Check it -- I get that they're campy and wholesome and easy to follow and all that (it's a shame they didn't seem to be written like many more modern children's cartoons that are easy to enjoy even as an adult). I'm just sayin' it's not a very great show that should be held up on some kind of pedestal that the idea of a remake threatens to collapse or something.

Compare it to other shows you may have watched when growing up, such as the following:
G.I. Joe
Transformers
The Smurfs
He-Man (ok wait this one is pretty similarly formulaic)
Scooby Doo
Rainbow Bright (if you're Fifth)

Do they all follow the good-guys-win formula? Sure.
Do they often have a throw-away/gag character like Snarf? Sure.
Is the acting going to win any awards? Probably not.

But Thundercats consistently delivered stale, wooden voice acting and repetitive, rarely varied plots (how many times can Muumm-Ra transform himself before the ancient spirits of evil give up -- oh wait they did, nevermind). I'm pretty sure Lion-o defeated everything in every episode by pointing his sword at it and yelling, "Thunder. Thunder. Thundercasts, hoooooooo!" I may have always known the Joes or Autobots would win, but at least there seemed to be more variation (and before you want to get into a "but here's a breakdown of all the episodes, etc." I am speaking based on memories of the shows, not an empirical analysis, because Jesus Christ); it helped to have a bigger cast perhaps.


As a bunch of teenagers/young adults/adults, I'm sure you're capable of looking at the show now and separating your appreciation and fondness of it from an objective look at the show with respect to what a remake may bring to the table.

At least it doesn't look like the awful Looney Tunes remake.




Also lol'ing at the "reminded of something one of my characters said once". Why not just "something I wrote"?



Also also the original Battlestar was campy and hokey, yet the remake sure seems to have been successful; I also don't remember it getting a lot of flak (though I wasn't a fan and wouldn't have been following that news anyway).

[Krylo]

I was gonna post something like that, Synk, but I didn't feel it was worth it.

Know, however, that I am about 90% behind you. I'm only not 100% behind you because all the old saturday morning cartoons* were similarly terrible compared to even children's cartoons of today. Or of ten years or so ago (Animaniacs and Freakazoid beat the shit out of Thundercats) A lot of people tend to think the opposite but that is sheer nostalgia talking.

Even going back and watching a few episodes of GI Joe was physically painful for me as I became embarrassed that I ever liked the show, even as a small child. And Thundercats? Just as bad if not worse.

*Exceptions include things like Looney Tunes and Gummie Bears, obviously.

[synkr0nized]

Probably true, Krylo. I haven't seen most of them in a while, though I have seen Thundercats more recently.


Also, yes, the WB shows are still quite terrific and in a different kind of league, I'd say.

[bluestarultor]

Also lol'ing at the "reminded of something one of my characters said once". Why not just "something I wrote"?

When you have characters as well-developed as mine, it's easier to treat them like people. The stories basically write themselves at that point. Insanity? Perhaps. But damn does it ever give results. ;)




On Thundercats, it was at least on par with the competition at the time. What it lost in wooden dialogue (nobody's arguing with that one) it more than made up for in concept, style, tone, message, and other areas. Heck, I think just the fact that all of the members of the team were individually capable was pretty worthwhile in itself. This is the only show I can think of where a pair of ten-year-olds were capable of whipping out enough tricks to stand on their own two feet until Power Rangers Turbo came out with Justin, which was significantly less awesome (nearly series-ending, actually).

I'm not speaking based on childhood memories, either. Or I am, but more recent ones, after I was older and not running around the walls pouring sugar down my throat and kids would have made fun of me if they'd known I was still watching cartoons, much less old ones like that.

Speaking objectively, definitely not the best thing ever. But speaking emotionally, a lot of its parts actually meant something, and still COULD mean something in modern society, where instead everything looks boiled down to marketable tropes right down to the character design and the tone has gone decidedly dark and edgy as if it's not the figurative Black Plague of this generation.

[Krylo]

the tone has gone decidedly dark and edgy as if it's not the figurative Black Plague of this generation.

And the original tone was?

[Fifthfiend]

Fifth your track record of judgment of awesome is spotty at best.

EvilNess - like the Advancement of Sound Science Coalition, but instead of global warming and pesticides, new-Panthro's shitty sideburns.

I am speaking based on memories of the shows, not an empirical analysis, because Jesus Christ

This is honestly some pretty weak shit to pull after literally issuing a challenge to everyone else to go rewatch the original Thundercats on the basis that their memories are wrong.

Especially when I've seen this exact same meme about how The Original Thundercats Was Terrible Go Watch It You'll See pop up, like, everywhere, since the moment things started coming out about this dreadfully unimpressive remake, I mean what is there like, a talking points email bulletin I'm not on, what?

[Krylo]

Nah, it's just that the original Thundercats was terrible, and that's the natural argument to counter, 'Oh man the original Thundercats was awesome and this remake is going to be horrible by dragging the awesomeness of the original through the dirt'. Because if the original wasn't any good the core of the argument, that the new one is soiling it somehow, falls apart.

To be fair, though, I never saw the original until I was a teenager, so I don't have any nostalgia value toward it. Just, "Jesus this is terrible, why do my friends talk like it was awesome?"

Edit: That's not to say ALL the points made in this thread are terrible. There are salient points about Cheetara being a well designed female personality (if poorly implemented and visually designed), and Panthro was the best of the cast, and his new hair is kind of horrible. I mean, I couldn't even remember who or what Tygra was until rereading this thread, he was just 'the other guy', and Lion-O was only important as the leader, Cheetara only as the one who happened to have tits. Panthro's the only one who's memorable on his own merits.

But that's beside the point. The point being that basically every children's cartoon of that era that wasn't from Disney or titled with 'Looney' in front was basically completely terrible and it'd be a real effort to make something as bad. And given that, the amount of outrage over this new creation being less than excellent seems... overblown?

Which isn't really that big of a deal which is why I only posted in support of Synk/to point out to Blues that the plot of the original had, literally, the entire Thundercat race being murdered in the first couple episodes. Which is to say, it kind of had a grimdark tone in the first place.

Edit 2: And all of this is the reason I completely refuse to watch Voltron ever again. I remember it as being fucking awesome, and I'll be damned if I'll have what rewatching GI Joe did to those memories happen to Voltron.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

All I know about Thundercats is that kids playing Thundercats in the playground would get the shit beaten out of them by those playing Transformers.

[Krylo]

Transformers.

Equally terrible!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

But more conducive to playground dominance. Particularly the kid playing Megatron would have some big round PVC tube for his arm cannon.
Thundercats kids just had like cardboard cat ears.

[Fifthfiend]

I guess I'd be more impressed by counterarguments that don't seem like arguments in favor of this new thing being shitty. Because I'm just throwing this out there but if the original show really was that dreadful and bereft of anything worthwhile then, dang, that's kind of more what I'd call an argument for not remaking the thing.

And if you're gonna say that well maybe it was terrible but there were particular nuggets of good and entertaining and cool ideas and characterizations and things that this new series could bring out well, then the people who are objecting are probably doing so because they don't think this new show is doing that.

Like Synk brought up Battlestar Galactica and like IDK how good or not-good the original BSG was but I do know the one thing that anyone really cared about on that show was that Starbuck drank and smoke and fucked around a whole lot, and when they made the new series, they had Starbuck drink and smoke and fuck around a whole lot, and that was totally great, and then they made Starbuck a chick, which was even better, and THEN they totally fucked all that up at which point the show crawled up its own asshole and died. WHICH GOES TO SHOW that 1. Ron Moore is an asshole, 2. Ron Moore is an asshole, and 3. I honestly can't make any more points about Thundercats now that I've gotten started remembering how much Ron Moore is a total, total asshole I mean seriously fuck that guy.

[Krylo]

We never really got that elaborate in our props when I went to school. Like when my friends and I would play megaman someone would just stick their arm inside their coat sleeve and make blam noises, and swords would be random sticks, at best. If someone was being a cat person, we just IMAGINED their cat ears, with pixie dust, rainbows, and unicorns.

Though, it is interesting to note that Transformers is actually an odd case in the 80s cartoons thing. Because it all started with an absolutely horrible cartoon, but had some really good spin-off stuff. It's been too long so I can't be sure, but I want to say the (animated) movie where Optimus Prime died was actually pretty good for its time, and there were a lot of spin off series that ranged from jesus fuck this is bad all the up to pretty decent, and of course, the voice of Optimus Prime is fantastic.

However, it all started with just the most terrible cartoon, combining all the worst parts of GI Joe (gun fights where apparently no one has any idea how to fight, cartoonish super villains who don't make any sense at all, etc.) with a bunch of shitty kids that I couldn't care less about (and I'm pretty sure no one else cares about) taking time away from the giant robots that were the reason anyone ever watched.

No one bought action figures of the kids, but fuck yes I had a chest full of transformers, with Optimus Prime, with his trailer that opened into a gun turret, and Starscream and Megatron and at least one other Optimus Prime.

Getting off point though. I mostly just wanted to point out that there's plenty of good that came out of transformers, before the blowback. Because I know a lot of people here are Transformers fans, and with good, defensible, reason that goes beyond simple nostalgia.


Not really an edit:
I guess I'd be more impressed by counterarguments that don't seem like arguments in favor of this new thing being shitty. Because I'm just throwing this out there but if the original show really was that dreadful and bereft of anything worthwhile then, dang, that's kind of more what I'd call an argument for not remaking the thing.Well, in my case it's more I just don't see why someone would get worked up about a studio ruining something that was already terrible.

I mean, yeah, it'd be better if they didn't waste money on remaking it, and maybe did something fresh instead. In fact, it'd be better to do that regardless of the quality of the show, because I'd really like to see more new ideas in entertainment than rehashes of old ones.

But that's not the argument happening here. It's that the remaking is ruining something that was once good and it's just kind of confusing to those of us who thought it was horrible in the first place.

And even so, I'm not sure there's enough information to say that the one or two decent things in the show are ruined. I mean, ok Panthro is apparently huge? And has stupid hair?

....And we know literally nothing else about it?

So how do we know that everyone is being 'reduced' to simple tropes? An argument that only really applies to Panthro, anyway? And maybe Snarf I guess? I don't remember well enough to say, but I'll take your word on Snarf being secretly the best.

Did I miss a link somewhere? Because all I saw was a couple of images of the new art and a trailer that showed... nothing that people are complaining about (other than your own complaints about Panthro's design).

I'm not saying that's NOT going to happen, but jumping to the conclusion that it will seems kind of erroneous, especially considering the guy in charge has put out some pretty good cartoons in the past (come on, you know you watched the shit out of Teen Titans, and Ben10 is pretty decent), and remakes of cartoons from that era have turned out well before (He-Man and the Masters of the Universe was basically excellent, and MLP... well, yeah).

I find myself actually slightly optimistic about it given the dearth of information, the fact that the show had a decent but horribly executed premise (making it ripe for a reworking), and the previous works of the man in charge and previous 80's cartoon reboots.

Edit: Two of the guys doing this were also on Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

I mean, the credentials are there, I don't see why everyone is leaping to the worst possible conclusion here? The only way it could have a better chance is if they got Tartakovsky working on it.

[synkr0nized]

This is honestly some pretty weak shit to pull after literally issuing a challenge to everyone else to go rewatch the original Thundercats on the basis that their memories are wrong.

The point was that given an equal chance for the shows to remain great thanks to memory-oh-vision Thundercats still seemed kinda flawed, but really that whole generation of cartoons played up the hokey so whatevers. Also it wasn't about memories being wrong but biased by childhood perspectives.


You could not tell child-me that Inspector Gadget wasn't the man.

[Krylo]

Penny4Lyfe

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Re the transformers movie. I saw it recentely, it's not that bad for an 80s kids cartoon movie. Much better than the cartoon. Middle bits are awful as all blazes (let's run around the robot-galaxy for no apparent reason), but the opening is actually fantasticaly exciting and has some great action, ending is also exciting. Also it had total balls, murdering off the main character and kids favourite. It was marketing- to get in new toys- but they could have just written him out like they did with most other characters they wanted to get rid off- but they actually straight up murder him.
Also Orson Welles, Eric Idle, Leornard Nimoy- they had some big names in the cast.
As you said, the transformers had a lot of good spin-offs, the movie being one of them, whereas Thundercats sort of didn't (all I remember is an awful C64 game) whic I think is why Transformers is so much bigger in the memory. The cartoons were probably equally rubbish but you got more to work with with Transformers being brought back.

Inspector Gadget was best just for its theme song.

IMore on the dealio, we should totally wait to see how it is when it comes out maybe? Like we've only seen images so far as far as I'm aware and if we can judge the show on how the characters look, it's probably a pretty terrible show. Like those sideburns suggest that maybe Panthro is going to be like an 80s buddy cop and the rest of the thundercats are his wacky sidekicks. That would be pretty cool.

[Locke cole]

I'm pretty sure Lion-o defeated everything in every episode by pointing his sword at it and yelling, "Thunder. Thunder. Thundercasts, hoooooooo!"

Wait what? He defeated nothing in that fashion. That was a Bat-Signal-esque thing to summon the other Thundercats to him; that and make the sword go from "dagger" to "OK this is a decently-sized sword". I think he once used the extension to cut some ropes binding him, but I don't think he ever defeated anything just by shouting that.

[Aerozord]

Yeah so it's clear I am not talking about all sideburns, or even all mutton-chop sideburns, but specifically that set of mutton-chop sideburns.

They are un-awesome, a statement of un-awesomeness, and a promise of un-awesomeness to come.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i229/BryndenTheBlackfish/iroh.jpg

[BitVyper]

I challenge all of you to go watch the originals and tell me that's not terrible.

You think I don't still still watch them? I actually only saw about two or three episodes of it when I was a kid, then hunted it down much later on, and honestly? It was a whole lot better than most of the other eighties toons I can recall or that I've seen since. I mean, I can't even sit through Transformers G1 toons (movie notwithstanding), and I LOVE G1. I mean Cullen IS my Optimus.

At its worst, it was typical of eighties toons, and at its higher points was Panthro being awesome, Cheetara being pretty darn well done, and Snarf being a Complainer who is consistently right, and not just a purposeless snivelling coward (also his design is based on animated Smaug, which is hilarious). They are also one of the few that made decent use of episode-to-episode continuity.

The animation was better than some shows and worse than others, but the art was a hell of a lot more consistent than some.

I venture back to eighties toons here and again, and Thundercats is one of the few that I can still enjoy for what it is.

I'm pretty sure Lion-o defeated everything in every episode by pointing his sword at it and yelling, "Thunder. Thunder. Thundercasts, hoooooooo!"

They did fall back on the sword as a plot device quite a bit (I think largely to avoid depictions of violence), but then you also had episodes like the eight or nine where Liono had to undergo his trials and personally best all of the TCats at their own strengths to prove himself worthy of being king, or all the ones focused on characters not Liono.

I mean, yeah it was a kids cartoon in the eighties, and it's totally understandable if you dislike it for that reason, but it had some pretty strong points compared with other shows at the time, and the concern is that the new series will miss the marks on those things that someone like me would actually like to see more of.

One thing that gives me a bit of hope is that the He Man remake, while being far from perfect (and making some really dumb animation decisions), actually did expand on some of the stronger points of the original series.

[bluestarultor]

And the original tone was?

Serious, but not really "dark and edgy." Thundercats was one of those shows that did some heavy things, but did it with a bright color palette and setting and characters. The bad guys' bases were dark and gloomy, but the world outside of that was very sunny and rather pleasant.

It was that special kind of "mature" catered to kids to make them feel like they were watching something totally awesome and mature like the older kids while still being very much accessible to their level. I mean, I still have tapes of some of the shows of the period (sadly no Thundercats, though) and I still find them watchable.

Actually, GI Joe is still something I dig up and watch maybe once or twice a year on average.


The point was that given an equal chance for the shows to remain great thanks to memory-oh-vision Thundercats still seemed kinda flawed, but really that whole generation of cartoons played up the hokey so whatevers. Also it wasn't about memories being wrong but biased by childhood perspectives.


You could not tell child-me that Inspector Gadget wasn't the man.

Thankfully, there's Veoh, and I've got a random episode up (it's a later one). Objectively, yeah, pretty bad by today's standards, but not unwatchable. I mean I just sat through at least 10 of 20 minutes instead of typing on this post and was even enjoying myself by the end. It's not something I'd seek out today, but watching it, even as not a very good window into characterization or anything else of the main cast (seriously, the episode was pretty much just the villains and bit characters), and next to no fighting (1-minute boomerang battles hardly count), not enough to ruin my nostalgia or anything.

Like, really, there were better episodes. Also, I just made the mistake of watching the intro. I think I need a moment.



FakeEdit: Okay, back. Man-tears were shed.

Point being there are reasons people hold it sacred where other things like Silverhawks that were similar and of similar production quality seem to have been mostly forgotten.

[tacticslion]

First: Krylo, Synk - daggummit, I can't rep you more than once. Lame.
Second: BitVyper (and the two above) said much of what I was thinking.
Third: DISCLAIMER - I have forgotten much of what I once knew, so I admit to possibly being wrong about some of this.

Thing is, I loved me some Thundercats. The opening theme is still one of the most awesome things ever. Cheetara was great as a character. Lion-o was awesome and also what all of us wanted to be forever (seriously: a ten-year-old"] [don't remember his real age right now] kid placed into an awesome, powerful, cool-looking adult body = total wish-fulfillment for many kids), and I loved the various conflicts they had. Plus, the good guys were cooler than the bad guys - and that (almost) never happens!

That said...

*I never got into Panthro as much as everyone else here did. Was he awesome? Yeah. I just have bad taste; what can I say?

*Snarf was... annoying. He had a purpose, sure, but he was irritating. Saying "snarf" at the end of his sentences was unmatched in irritating, pointless character-elements until Mega Man from Captain N (dates may be wrong, I forget which came first). He was cowardly and just irritating - no matter how often he proved right, it never mattered in the end - they always won anyway. You'd think he'd learn.

*Mummra (and his whole group) was always kind of ... iffy? I mean - what's his goal? Who is he? Why should I care? I admit - this is more me talking now than when I was a kid. It might have been better explained in the cartoon, I just don't recall. Was he cool? Sure. But I never fully got behind him - never believed in him as a character - in any concrete way. I still love seeing him - I enjoy thinking back on the show. But in the end, I was never sold on the villains, which is a difficult thing for a show to overcome. They were cool, but kind of bland.

That brings up another thing. I must now admit something terrible: I didn't enjoy the original He-Man*. Oh, I like the show! Just not all of the characters. I bring this up because Thundercats always had a similar vibe:
Main hero was a spoiled prince of a (once/still-wealthy) kingdom who had to fight off a cosmic evil in order to save (his/the last vestiges of his) people and did so by (temporarily/permanently) transforming a powerful, muscular adult with super-strength via magical sword which was activated with a special catch-phrase that usually summoned the rest of the cast.

The rest of the cast included:
- a powerful warrior/technology crafting person
- a warrior-woman who used a staff and minor telepathy
- an annoying/cowardly sidekick/pet (He-Man had two!)
- the small-fries with firepower (overlaps with above in He-Man)
- a guy who I could never remember because he was Generic Other Guy
- pointless laughter at the end of most episodes

Partially, this was a design issue. I always felt it was fundamentally stupid, now matter how well-muscled, to run around in nothing but a loin-cloth. What made it worse (in He-Man) was that his clothes actually transformed into said loin-cloth. At least the Thundercats just looked like they never changed out of their spandex (typical for a cartoon). The secondary reason was that many of the folks - including the potentially-awesome Orko - could be kind of annoying at times in their rank stupidity.
EX (TC): Do not eat the obviously evil fruit you've never seen before of hypnotic doom.
EX (HM): Of course it's Prince Adam - they have the same body size, the same shape, the same voice, and they same haircut**.
These are, as Bit referred to, fairly typical 80's cartoon things.

I also have another purpose for bringing this up: I enjoyed the He-Man remake. I mean, I immensely enjoyed the remake. Clever dialogue, witty plays and in-jokes on the old stuff, and, yes, the occasional hammy weirdness worked. With what I've seen Thundercats has a decent chance. I even liked some of the CG "Thundercats 2012" trailer I saw, though that one was canceled (admittedly, the music was too much, though - also, did Lion-O behead the badguy or what? I couldn't see that part too well with the back-lighting at this computer). I'm - cautiously - hopeful. When I first heard of a He-Man remake, my first thought was "cool!" followed by "it'll probably be total crap, so never mind". It had it's flaws, for certain, but it was much, much better than I thought it could be. It treated itself seriously when it needed to and enjoyed its campy value at the same time. No reason you can't do both here.

*Weirdly, this does not mean I wasn't nostalgic for it, in my own way. I loved the whole "Gray Skull" thing, and much of the cast. And, I admit in hypocrisy, I loved She-Ra. Somehow it was much more refreshing having a woman be so awesome that bad guys just kind of ran away at the sight of her. I did always think she needed more muscle, however.
**Corollary: the purple guy with a different voice, evil expression, and bad manners is not He-Man. That said, I always just presumed that - much like Clark Kent's hypnotic glasses - everyone was always just so aghast at the fuzzy loincloth they never actually looked at his face. I mean... they just couldn't look away.

ON TO SPECIFIC THINGS:
Fifth - first, you're wrong, Panthro doesn't look bad (I actually like his look); also you never made me an awesome avatar, so I disagree with you on everything forever now, probably.

Blues - okay, we get it. You hate Space Marines (tm). Let me clarify: when was the last time you saw a Space Marine (tm) use a bola whip and have relatively sensible body proportions? Panthro looks far more like a typical Space Marine (tm) body-type than, Tygra. And onto Panthro - he doesn't look bad. You make it sound like he's the worst combination of everything over-used ever. Yet he's still toned down from the original character design. In fact, all the original characters wore nothing but spandex, belts, and spiky suspenders. The toy Lion-O came with a glove/shield/thing. I can't really recall whether the original did. Seriously, they all looked like eighties stereotypes come to life. Cheetara wore what was - at the time - a revealing swimsuit (about as much as they could get away with, in fact, without pushing parental warning buttons). When I was younger, I was hard-pressed to tell if she was wearing anything at all, given that her skin colored varied dramatically from her face, and everything consisted of warm colors. I will say, though, that the weird wrist-weights are an unwelcome addition to this costume.

As for anyone else complaining about how the style looks like a weirdly modernized update - it is. But it's a weirdly modernized update to a weirdly (formerly) "modernized" look that the old show had. Again, let's look at old and new Cheetara:
Old (80s): poofy hair, revealing/skin-tight swim-suit - typical 80's portrayal of "cool, tough woman" (with slightly psychic powers and a staff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teela)!)

New ('10s): longer (slightly mussed) hair, tank-tops/backback and shorts - typical '10s portrayal of a "cool, tough woman" (with slightly psychic powers and a staff (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geekcastradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/The-Sorceress1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geekcastradio.com/%3Fp%3D1630&usg=__uJHX5s_-29I3WcaEuMF2cfDFN4c=&h=480&w=720&sz=56&hl=en&start=225&zoom=1&tbnid=aUaTSoib7WWe8M:&tbnh=118&tbnw=159&ei=fQ6BTaSOLpOx0QGYgv2ECQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthe%2Bsorceress%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26 sa%3DN%26biw%3D1118%26bih%3D597%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C 5105&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=104&vpy=154&dur=2094&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=136&ty=106&oei=CA6BTZmBOpGtgQeE6bCeCA&page=12&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:225&biw=1118&bih=597)?)***

My point: saying the original is completely original isn't true. It was typical of it's time. That's not a bad thing. It's how the shows were conceived and how they're being interpreted. Tropes aren't a bad thing. It's the application that's important. And from what we've seen, we don't have a reason to take a negative interpretation.

***I didn't take the time looking beyond the He-Man references. Take the time, you'll find many similar things. G.I. Joe had better physical depictions for women warriors, even if it's stories weren't as stellar.

PREEMPTIVE EDIT:
Note: I do not think that He-Man and Thundercats are the same. They just had similar vibes when I was a kid.

[Locke cole]

Yeah, Lion-O had a glove-shield thing in the show. It worked like a grappling-hook at least once, I think.

[synkr0nized]

Point being there are reasons people hold it sacred where other things like Silverhawks that were similar and of similar production quality seem to have been mostly forgotten.

hahah This is a good point. Now that show is just so meh I don't even.


That glove thing was indeed a grappling hook at least once.

Also I looked up the cast last night thanks to this thread and am willing to bet one of the reasons the voice acting is so bad is because like six people did everyone in the show.

[tacticslion]

I used to love Silverhawks. I also used to spend hours pondering how they survived in the vacuum of space without helmets or complete body cover-up. Or how that one guy plays a guitar in space.

Sorry. I mean, IN SPAAAAAAAAAAAAACE!

Then there was Bravestarr (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BraveStarr)... ugh that horse...

Sad, yet I used to love them so very much. And their intros are pretty fun.

Edit
ALSO: let us not forget to mention that the Silverhawks were partly metal, but partly real. (in other words, the show was Meh, but the SONG WAS SO AWESOME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUe5Ugg6Iks&feature=BF&playnext=1&list=QL&index=17) I GOT A LUNCHBOX (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://cdn3.iofferphoto.com/img/item/109/611/487/61Ep8z61VvyWduL.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.ioffer.com/si/silver%2Bhawks&usg=__PDFMhDa3iiAHGTFwpsmPLrIOX5Q=&h=261&w=300&sz=17&hl=en&start=0&zoom=1&tbnid=syDopor2gGlQGM:&tbnh=138&tbnw=159&ei=qx-BTf67FMbdgQfXnZiXCA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dsilverhawks%2Blunchbox%26um%3D1%26hl% 3Den%26sa%3DN%26biw%3D1118%26bih%3D597%26tbs%3Disc h:1&um=1&itbs=1&iact=rc&dur=623&oei=qx-BTf67FMbdgQfXnZiXCA&page=1&ndsp=15&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0&tx=117&ty=57) WITH THEM ON IT JUST BECAUSE).

[Tev]

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i229/BryndenTheBlackfish/iroh.jpgI'm pretty sure that if Panthro turns out to be that plus http://www.absoluteanime.com/cowboy_bebop/jet.jpg then I'll be more than satisfied with his character.


Anyway, I'm still not quite sure what all the big fuss is about. The new art style looks pretty clean. The setting currently doesn't seem to have a mummy on a lost planet. The action level seems pretty on par with a kids cartoon yet it also seems pretty watchable as an adult.

I personally think I'm going to love the new "Balthier" style Tigra.

[Gregness]

For those of you who don't remember that G1 optimus was the fucking man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB0_vJUc3o4)

Also, while I don't know how to tag this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XybMPmF0ug&feature=related) video to start at the right time, but move it to 1:20 and bask in Panthro's badassitude.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

FUCK YOU HOT ROD!
I'm still scarred.

[bluestarultor]

Blues - okay, we get it. You hate Space Marines (tm). Let me clarify: when was the last time you saw a Space Marine (tm) use a bola whip and have relatively sensible body proportions? Panthro looks far more like a typical Space Marine (tm) body-type than, Tygra. And onto Panthro - he doesn't look bad. You make it sound like he's the worst combination of everything over-used ever. Yet he's still toned down from the original character design. In fact, all the original characters wore nothing but spandex, belts, and spiky suspenders. The toy Lion-O came with a glove/shield/thing. I can't really recall whether the original did. Seriously, they all looked like eighties stereotypes come to life. Cheetara wore what was - at the time - a revealing swimsuit (about as much as they could get away with, in fact, without pushing parental warning buttons). When I was younger, I was hard-pressed to tell if she was wearing anything at all, given that her skin colored varied dramatically from her face, and everything consisted of warm colors. I will say, though, that the weird wrist-weights are an unwelcome addition to this costume.

This isn't about how space marines look (and for me it never has been, since they look fine design-wise - if you'd ever paid attention, my issue was always ridiculous hyper-masculine stereotyping), or even about how Tygra looks. Individually, everyone but Panthro looks fine, but together they're utterly, ridiculously inconsistent. If everyone was dressed like Tygra, I'd say, "oh, cool, so they're emphasizing the space tech aspect of it, this might be good." If everyone looked like Lion-o, I'd be saying "so I guess they must be putting their focus on the monarchical aspect of things and playing up the nobility and honor, which might be interesting." If everyone looked like Cheetara, I'd be saying "wow, looks like they're taking the Avatar route and making it more fantasy-oriented, huh?" If everyone looked like Panthro, I'd be saying, "god GOD this is ugly as the south end of a northbound horse, but obviously they're showing the pain and hardship these guys all went through, which might at least be interesting if absolutely fucking horrible."

I'm looking at the designs and saying "Jesus, did they just throw darts at a wall? What the fuck kind of committee designed this shit? How MANY committees designed this shit? Is this some sort of multiple-universe crossover? What the hell kind of story is going to support all this? These guys are all extremely boiled down to very base marketable tropes and those tropes are based purely on aspects of their combat abilities without any regard to personality traits or non-combat abilities!"

And specifically on Panthro's design, he already started out with something roughly akin to ninja booties to go along with those chucks. I could see them taking him into samurai territory. What I can't see is why they decided to make him an unkempt, balding half-barbarian samurai who looks about as capable of inventing advanced technology as I look of throwing a truck. They can do the whole "looks are deceiving" thing, but that really only works once and then you're left with a guy who's obviously been a military grunt his whole life incongruously being a genius scientist. The reason it works for Beast is because Beast isn't covered in massive scars because he actually spent his life doing scientific work.

I could handle the balding and horrid mutton chops and frankly pretty much everything else if they'd left out the scars. The reason I take issue with Panthro is because they took a guy, a respectable guy, who was a genius inventor, and gave him the design of a common grunt.

As for anyone else complaining about how the style looks like a weirdly modernized update - it is. But it's a weirdly modernized update to a weirdly (formerly) "modernized" look that the old show had. Again, let's look at old and new Cheetara:
Old (80s): poofy hair, revealing/skin-tight swim-suit - typical 80's portrayal of "cool, tough woman" (with slightly psychic powers and a staff (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teela)!)

New ('10s): longer (slightly mussed) hair, tank-tops/backback and shorts - typical '10s portrayal of a "cool, tough woman" (with slightly psychic powers and a staff (http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.geekcastradio.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/The-Sorceress1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.geekcastradio.com/%3Fp%3D1630&usg=__uJHX5s_-29I3WcaEuMF2cfDFN4c=&h=480&w=720&sz=56&hl=en&start=225&zoom=1&tbnid=aUaTSoib7WWe8M:&tbnh=118&tbnw=159&ei=fQ6BTaSOLpOx0QGYgv2ECQ&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dthe%2Bsorceress%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26 sa%3DN%26biw%3D1118%26bih%3D597%26tbs%3Disch:10%2C 5105&um=1&itbs=1&iact=hc&vpx=104&vpy=154&dur=2094&hovh=183&hovw=275&tx=136&ty=106&oei=CA6BTZmBOpGtgQeE6bCeCA&page=12&ndsp=19&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:225&biw=1118&bih=597)?)***

Again, this isn't about a modern look so much as it is that they should PICK a modern look. I fully expected changes when I heard about this ages ago and accepted they'd happen. The new He-Man made some pretty significant changes to the style and I personally liked the remake. But those changes were internally consistent.

My point: saying the original is completely original isn't true. It was typical of it's time. That's not a bad thing. It's how the shows were conceived and how they're being interpreted. Tropes aren't a bad thing. It's the application that's important. And from what we've seen, we don't have a reason to take a negative interpretation.

The first part of this I agree with, but on the second part, they seem to be taking several things to the extreme. Tygra could always cloak, but they took him to a technological extreme. Lion-o has his sword and gauntlet and they took him to a Medieval extreme. Cheetara has odd abilities and was fast and suddenly she's some Amazon or something. Panthro had some martial arts going and they took him to a samurai extreme, in the process ignoring another, very integral, part of his character.

This is not tropes being used responsibly. This is tropes being used with all the grace, subtlety, and finesse of a drunk elephant smashing a watermelon with a Mario mallet. This isn't a team that looks like they come from the same setting, much less like one that wouldn't suffer extreme divisions. If the royal house is medieval and the common military is feudal, Panthro is going to be tied to Lion-o by the tendrils of his soul. If the military is feudal and special ops are futuristic, two branches of the armed forces are going to be handled irreconcilably differently and the people in them aren't going to understand or probably even like each other in the least. If special ops is futuristic and the castle is medieval, Tygra is going to feel that all the castle decorum is soft and backwards. And what the hell is Cheetara? A peasant? A street thief? Some amazon tribe cut off from the civility of the modern world? She's not liable to understand a thing about anyone else.

Assembling a team of these people, judging things based entirely on appearance at the moment, is like sticking a mongoose as the leader of a cobra, an eagle, and a coyote, then locking them all in a cardboard box to "LET'S WORK TOGETHER, GUYS! 8D" If these people had a whit of something in common, why are they all dressed so differently? People with things in common share common aspects, like social class, or interests, which manifest in their appearance. Every last one of these people is from a totally different world, which seems like the only way I can think of to reconcile the mess. Lion-o is prince of an empire ruling over Japan World, Brazil World, and Future World based out of Europe World whose whole solar system gets blown up and has to lead a rag-tag team of survivors with nothing in common but him as their new king. BRILLIANT!

[Locke cole]

"Samurai Extreme"? Dude is still wearing a vest covered in spikes, and the tank still exists, so I'm guessing he's still the mechanic.

[tacticslion]

This isn't about how space marines look (and for me it never has been, since they look fine design-wise - if you'd ever paid attention, my issue was always ridiculous hyper-masculine stereotyping), or even about how Tygra looks. Individually, everyone but Panthro looks fine, but together they're utterly, ridiculously inconsistent. If everyone was dressed like Tygra, I'd say, "oh, cool, so they're emphasizing the space tech aspect of it, this might be good." If everyone looked like Lion-o, I'd be saying "so I guess they must be putting their focus on the monarchical aspect of things and playing up the nobility and honor, which might be interesting." If everyone looked like Cheetara, I'd be saying "wow, looks like they're taking the Avatar route and making it more fantasy-oriented, huh?" If everyone looked like Panthro, I'd be saying, "god GOD this is ugly as the south end of a northbound horse, but obviously they're showing the pain and hardship these guys all went through, which might at least be interesting if absolutely fucking horrible."

I'm looking at the designs and saying "Jesus, did they just throw darts at a wall? What the fuck kind of committee designed this shit? How MANY committees designed this shit? Is this some sort of multiple-universe crossover? What the hell kind of story is going to support all this? These guys are all extremely boiled down to very base marketable tropes and those tropes are based purely on aspects of their combat abilities without any regard to personality traits or non-combat abilities!"

And specifically on Panthro's design, he already started out with something roughly akin to ninja booties to go along with those chucks. I could see them taking him into samurai territory. What I can't see is why they decided to make him an unkempt, balding half-barbarian samurai who looks about as capable of inventing advanced technology as I look of throwing a truck. They can do the whole "looks are deceiving" thing, but that really only works once and then you're left with a guy who's obviously been a military grunt his whole life incongruously being a genius scientist. The reason it works for Beast is because Beast isn't covered in massive scars because he actually spent his life doing scientific work.

I could handle the balding and horrid mutton chops and frankly pretty much everything else if they'd left out the scars. The reason I take issue with Panthro is because they took a guy, a respectable guy, who was a genius inventor, and gave him the design of a common grunt.



Again, this isn't about a modern look so much as it is that they should PICK a modern look. I fully expected changes when I heard about this ages ago and accepted they'd happen. The new He-Man made some pretty significant changes to the style and I personally liked the remake. But those changes were internally consistent.



The first part of this I agree with, but on the second part, they seem to be taking several things to the extreme. Tygra could always cloak, but they took him to a technological extreme. Lion-o has his sword and gauntlet and they took him to a Medieval extreme. Cheetara has odd abilities and was fast and suddenly she's some Amazon or something. Panthro had some martial arts going and they took him to a samurai extreme, in the process ignoring another, very integral, part of his character.

This is not tropes being used responsibly. This is tropes being used with all the grace, subtlety, and finesse of a drunk elephant smashing a watermelon with a Mario mallet. This isn't a team that looks like they come from the same setting, much less like one that wouldn't suffer extreme divisions. If the royal house is medieval and the common military is feudal, Panthro is going to be tied to Lion-o by the tendrils of his soul. If the military is feudal and special ops are futuristic, two branches of the armed forces are going to be handled irreconcilably differently and the people in them aren't going to understand or probably even like each other in the least. If special ops is futuristic and the castle is medieval, Tygra is going to feel that all the castle decorum is soft and backwards. And what the hell is Cheetara? A peasant? A street thief? Some amazon tribe cut off from the civility of the modern world? She's not liable to understand a thing about anyone else.

Assembling a team of these people, judging things based entirely on appearance at the moment, is like sticking a mongoose as the leader of a cobra, an eagle, and a coyote, then locking them all in a cardboard box to "LET'S WORK TOGETHER, GUYS! 8D" If these people had a whit of something in common, why are they all dressed so differently? People with things in common share common aspects, like social class, or interests, which manifest in their appearance. Every last one of these people is from a totally different world, which seems like the only way I can think of to reconcile the mess. Lion-o is prince of an empire ruling over Japan World, Brazil World, and Future World based out of Europe World whose whole solar system gets blown up and has to lead a rag-tag team of survivors with nothing in common but him as their new king. BRILLIANT!

While I understand and accept your views on their designs in the first part of your post - I have to personally disagree.

As to the second part of your post... it's true, I just can't imagine how they'll deal with the whole swords and guns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XybMPmF0ug&feature=related) and hyper-modern v. medival (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThunderCats) setting. I mean, that's almost as ridiculous as sorcery mixed with science fiction tech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfuxbC9Y7Bs&feature=related)! I mean, Blues, you're a really smart guy, but you're getting worked up over something very weak, over all.

In the original (just a few incongruous examples):
- Lion-O uses a magic sword while wielding a grappling-hook claw
- Panthro uses nunchucks while driving a tank
- The Wilys use flash-pellets that may be magic, but could just as easily be sci-tech.
- Tygra wields an extending bola-whip (we are uncertain if it's because it's a magic bola whip or a high-tech bola whip)
- The bad guys run around wielding high-tech laser guns, but also maces, clubs, and spears.

These things don't add up to a consistent feel at all. They don't come from the same "social class" and don't make any sense in relation to one another. You are willing to completely suspend the techno-fantasy disbelief side of a show, but are unable to overcome costume designs? Also, none of those aspects you mention would be accepted by any fans, nor would they even look good. At all.

That said, I admit my misunderstanding of your anti-Space Marine feelings and apologize for misrepresenting that. That was not my intent.

ALSO: On re-watching the posted links, Panthro is, in fact, rather awesome, I have to admit.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Kinda want that other one staring a COMPLETELY different main set FAR in the future where skeletor apparently came back and someone had to fight him. And it was being made by the guy that made SPECTACULAR FUCKING SPIDERMAN! That show had HOPE beyond belief. Why did they axe it!? ;_;

Uhm, maybe its been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but how do you come by that info? Via IMDB, I can only find indication of a guy named Todd Casey (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2591926/) has a piece of this project (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1666278/). From what I've read, Todd had a piece of Batman:B&B, Transformers: Animated, and GI Joe: Resolute. Didn't seen any indication of Spectacular Spiderman involvement.

Maybe you're confusing him with Greg Weisman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0918852/)? He's seen as the main creative force behind Spectacular Spiderman/Gargoyles. (Currently pitching in on Young Justice.)

Couldn't find any indication that he's got any connection to the new Thundercats series, but maybe IMDB is behind the times.

SWB

[bluestarultor]

While I understand and accept your views on their designs in the first part of your post - I have to personally disagree.

As to the second part of your post... it's true, I just can't imagine how they'll deal with the whole swords and guns (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XybMPmF0ug&feature=related) and hyper-modern v. medival (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ThunderCats) setting. I mean, that's almost as ridiculous as sorcery mixed with science fiction tech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfuxbC9Y7Bs&feature=related)! I mean, Blues, you're a really smart guy, but you're getting worked up over something very weak, over all.

In the original (just a few incongruous examples):
- Lion-O uses a magic sword while wielding a grappling-hook claw
- Panthro uses nunchucks while driving a tank
- The Wilys use flash-pellets that may be magic, but could just as easily be sci-tech.
- Tygra wields an extending bola-whip (we are uncertain if it's because it's a magic bola whip or a high-tech bola whip)
- The bad guys run around wielding high-tech laser guns, but also maces, clubs, and spears.

These things don't add up to a consistent feel at all. They don't come from the same "social class" and don't make any sense in relation to one another. You are willing to completely suspend the techno-fantasy disbelief side of a show, but are unable to overcome costume designs? Also, none of those aspects you mention would be accepted by any fans, nor would they even look good. At all.

That said, I admit my misunderstanding of your anti-Space Marine feelings and apologize for misrepresenting that. That was not my intent.

ALSO: On re-watching the posted links, Panthro is, in fact, rather awesome, I have to admit.

To be fair, I was making the mistake of trying to play "outrage" for laughs. One of these days I'll remember that nobody else in the world shares my sense of humor.


Back on topic:
Magic and technology have been comfortably combined for years in pretty much every setting possible. FF13 has a very technological world created by magical beings. FF in general has blended advanced magic with advanced tech since FF6. Earlier if you consider airships after FF1's "built around a levitating rock" design. It's also present in countless books, other games, and movies.

The issue at stake here is this is supposed to be a unified team. Essentially, Lion-o and his lords. The problem stems from the fact that unless all of them are from different societies, they should all at least have a common theme in their outfits. A common color, or design similarities linking them. What we have right now lacks a common feel. If Lion-o is a prince, and these are people he's working with regularly, they should be dressed respectably around him. Okay, so maybe Tygra and Panthro are in uniform. I'll bite. Tygra obviously has a purely practical experimental cloaking suit for his special ops stuff, while Panthro is a field mechanic who's got some of the uniform taken off so it doesn't get caught in any gears (poofy pants notwithstanding). Lion-o obviously leads a very sheltered life of pomp and circumstance based around outdated ideals and custom. But what about Cheetara, with her torn-off sleeves and high exposure? That's not a respectable outfit to be wearing around royalty, or really if you're anyone important enough to associate with royalty. If she's a tribal ambassador or something, why isn't she wearing more decoration? If she's some sort of military scout, why are her sleeves torn off her uniform instead of it being a clean vest? She looks, for all purposes, like some random teenager off the street, or otherwise someone with no place in a castle. Maybe it ends up as an "I can help, too!" thing, but that has its own issues. "Resourceful thief" is supposed to be the Thunderkittens' role, and we know they're in from the trailer.

And even then, it doesn't all work, because Lion-o is dressed very much like what appears to be tons of military generals and soldiers on the ground in the trailer. And for that matter, Tygra appears to be dressed similarly as the rest of the nobility else in the castle scenes. Where does his space armor come from and why isn't everyone wearing it in the war going on there instead of medieval junk? There's a war going on using swords. Where does his gun come from if they're not good enough to cut down the other side? Does he just find this stuff somewhere?




Don't get me wrong, the trailer itself looks fine design-wise. What I'm wondering is where all this other stuff comes from after the first episode or three, where all the clips probably came from. Panthro is notably absent from the trailer for that matter, and instead we get some smilodon guy missing an incisor hogging a lot of the time (apparently a guy named Grune). If they changed stuff up and the trailer is more representative, I could get excited about this, but then why are they still circulating scrapped concept art? Where the hell is Panthro, the only original member of the team who wasn't shown in the trailer? That's a warning bell right there, since even Jaga was shown. An original member of the beloved cast missing from the promo trailer means they're either doing something big with him (like replacing Grune, but wanting to keep the spoiler a secret for some reason), or there being something reaaaally embarrassing going on and the character quietly being dropped from the production or somehow drastically modified.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

There were words here. They're gone now.

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc230/Shyria_Dracnoir/gio81-n1297067971364.jpg

[BitVyper]

On re-watching the posted links, Panthro is, in fact, rather awesome, I have to admit.

See, what's great is that everyone else gets the lame 80s cartoon one-liners, then Panthro shows up (and he does this consistently) and it's like "PANTHRO GON CHOKE A BITCH!"

I've always felt that they should have had the cast do double takes at some of the things he said.

[bluestarultor]

http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc230/Shyria_Dracnoir/gio81-n1297067971364.jpg

My diagnosis is that I should probably just give up. When you get called something by Shyria, you know you deserve it. I don't know what it is, but I've somehow managed to get by for a full year on FFWiki without getting myself the reputation I've developed here. :J

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Uhm, maybe its been mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but how do you come by that info? Via IMDB, I can only find indication of a guy named Todd Casey (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2591926/) has a piece of this project (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1666278/). From what I've read, Todd had a piece of Batman:B&B, Transformers: Animated, and GI Joe: Resolute. Didn't seen any indication of Spectacular Spiderman involvement.

Maybe you're confusing him with Greg Weisman (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0918852/)? He's seen as the main creative force behind Spectacular Spiderman/Gargoyles. (Currently pitching in on Young Justice.)

Couldn't find any indication that he's got any connection to the new Thundercats series, but maybe IMDB is behind the times.

SWB

The guy that did the artwork for it. my bad.

Found it on his DA page. Will post a link once I find it again.

[Viridis]

The guy that did the artwork for it. my bad.

Found it on his DA page. Will post a link once I find it again.You mentioned Spectacular Spider-man. Are you talking about Sean Galloway (http://cheeks-74.deviantart.com/)?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Yeah, that's him. The guy I was talking about.

[synkr0nized]

I don't know what it is, but I've somehow managed to get by for a full year on FFWiki without getting myself the reputation I've developed here. :J

Probably 'cause you're all huge Final Fantasy nerds over there.

[bluestarultor]

Probably 'cause you're all huge Final Fantasy nerds over there.

More like for some reason, I'm crap at showing who I really am over here, which I believe I mentioned last time I took a break from the forum.

But I'd rather not derail the thread any further. That initial post was me being butthurt over Shyria's comment on me being butthurt. If I still feel the need in five, I'll make my own "trash Blues" thread like people tend to do in these situations.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Yeah, that's him. The guy I was talking about.

Ah, so we're talking about character design, not story. And you can also chalk up the animated Hellboy movies & Young Justice, to the same artist.

SWB

[Magus]

What they need to do is forget Thundercats, and remake She-Ra. Shapely, shapely She-Ra.

[Fifthfiend]

At its worst, it was typical of eighties toons, and at its higher points was Panthro being awesome, Cheetara being pretty darn well done, and Snarf being a Complainer who is consistently right, and not just a purposeless snivelling coward (also his design is based on animated Smaug, which is hilarious).

When I talk about Snarf secretly being the best, this is what I mean.

He bitches about everything, all the time, because he was 100% correct and the other Thundercats are fucking dumber than bricks, and then they'd all be fucked and he'd be like WELP and do something incredibly brave that saves the day and he would never get any credit, ever - not even from MOST OF THE PEOPLE WHO WERE THE AUDIENCE OF THIS SHOW - which just made him even better.

It is actually something that would have been ruined by Thundercats being a 'better' show because that would probably have meant a show with a hero who wasn't like, SUPERHUMANLY stupid the way Liono was, denying Snarf his chance to be totally great all the time.

http://i73.photobucket.com/albums/i229/BryndenTheBlackfish/iroh.jpg

I am going to go on record as saying you literally did not read the post of mine that you quoted and responded to with this.

[Magus]

Was Snarf like the equivalent of a bobcat or something? I'm presuming they were all based on cats (I was never that into thundercats), and he's like half the size, so is this his "thing"?

[Locke cole]

Snarf was a Snarf.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I doubt Snarf was even based off of any wild cats. He always seemed to be a lizard with fur and cat ears to me.

[bluestarultor]

I doubt Snarf was even based off of any wild cats. He always seemed to be a lizard with fur and cat ears to me.

Pretty much this. He's got maybe a bobcat-like face, but he's not really feline and combines simian, reptilian, and maybe feline traits.

[Premmy]

This isn't about how space marines look (and for me it never has been, since they look fine design-wise - if you'd ever paid attention, my issue was always ridiculous hyper-masculine stereotyping), or even about how Tygra looks. Individually, everyone but Panthro looks fine, but together they're utterly, ridiculously inconsistent.
Cause, you know, people from different backgrounds who have different skills and likes tend to do things, like dress, differently.

I'm looking at the designs and saying "Jesus, did they just throw darts at a wall? What the fuck kind of committee designed this shit? How MANY committees designed this shit? Is this some sort of multiple-universe crossover? What the hell kind of story is going to support all this? These guys are all extremely boiled down to very base marketable tropes and those tropes are based purely on aspects of their combat abilities without any regard to personality traits or non-combat abilities!"
I know, man, they're all, Like, distinct from each other so you can tell them apart and glean some aspect of their skills/personalities/history and stuff. They should all be distinguished purely by the color/pattern of their spandex and their faces/hairstyles.

And specifically on Panthro's design, he already started out with something roughly akin to ninja booties to go along with those chucks. I could see them taking him into samurai territory. What I can't see is why they decided to make him an unkempt, balding half-barbarian samurai who looks about as capable of inventing advanced technology as I look of throwing a truck. They can do the whole "looks are deceiving" thing, but that really only works once and then you're left with a guy who's obviously been a military grunt his whole life incongruously being a genius scientist. The reason it works for Beast is because Beast isn't covered in massive scars because he actually spent his life doing scientific work.
Or, you know, he's a mechanic, he's good with machines, he creates mechanical devices, so, he's a big, blue-collar type of guy, then. when he busts up some ass, no incongruity there, he just lifted that engine block into that tank, then threw it at somebody.

I could handle the balding and horrid mutton chops and frankly pretty much everything else if they'd left out the scars. The reason I take issue with Panthro is because they took a guy, a respectable guy, who was a genius inventor, and gave him the design of a common grunt.

I am sure all the mechanics, large people, and smart people of the world thank you for your insult.


Again, this isn't about a modern look so much as it is that they should PICK a modern look. I fully expected changes when I heard about this ages ago and accepted they'd happen. The new He-Man made some pretty significant changes to the style and I personally liked the remake. But those changes were internally consistent.
Well, yeah, they all had furry bits, I guess.



The first part of this I agree with, but on the second part, they seem to be taking several things to the extreme. Tygra could always cloak, but they took him to a technological extreme. Lion-o has his sword and gauntlet and they took him to a Medieval extreme. Cheetara has odd abilities and was fast and suddenly she's some Amazon or something. Panthro had some martial arts going and they took him to a samurai extreme, in the process ignoring another, very integral, part of his character.

Spandex, again, then? I mean, I love super-heroes, but Thunder-cats wasn't a Super-hero show, it was a fantasy with some sci-fi action/adventure show. Maybe they could dress their parts instead of Spider-man's part.

This is not tropes being used responsibly. This is tropes being used with all the grace, subtlety, and finesse of a drunk elephant smashing a watermelon with a Mario mallet. This isn't a team that looks like they come from the same setting, much less like one that wouldn't suffer extreme divisions. If the royal house is medieval and the common military is feudal, Panthro is going to be tied to Lion-o by the tendrils of his soul. If the military is feudal and special ops are futuristic, two branches of the armed forces are going to be handled irreconcilably differently and the people in them aren't going to understand or probably even like each other in the least. If special ops is futuristic and the castle is medieval, Tygra is going to feel that all the castle decorum is soft and backwards. And what the hell is Cheetara? A peasant? A street thief? Some amazon tribe cut off from the civility of the modern world? She's not liable to understand a thing about anyone else.
This is just silly. I hope you never, ever play any JRPGs or party-based games, like, EVER.

Assembling a team of these people, judging things based entirely on appearance at the moment, is like sticking a mongoose as the leader of a cobra, an eagle, and a coyote, then locking them all in a cardboard box to "LET'S WORK TOGETHER, GUYS! 8D" If these people had a whit of something in common, why are they all dressed so differently? People with things in common share common aspects, like social class, or interests, which manifest in their appearance.
Blues, is this you?
http://images2.fanpop.com/image/photos/11100000/Billy-Numerous-teen-titans-villans-11120516-512-384.jpg

[Kim]

This is just silly. I hope you never, ever play any JRPGs or party-based games, like, EVER.

Man, Vanille and Fang's character designs totally don't match Lightning's or Hope's. And what's Snow supposed to be, some sort of surfer dude? WHAT WERE THEY SMOKING???

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I was more intriguied by the medieval King/Lord comparision. Cause medieval kings ruled fuck all and the lords pretty much did what they wanted and the king really only ruled by consent. There was no centralised power mechanicisms and the kings power and wealth came pretty much from his own lands. Military expeditions were basically- go beg some lords to help you out and raise an army for them.
Like absolute fuck would a lord wear the colours of his king. That would be admittnig you had no power of your own, only his direct staff would wear his colorus, much as the lords military units would wear the lord's colours not the kings.
So actually, if its a feudal kind of thing- it makes sense. It wouldn't make sense for them to be dressed the same, unless Lion-O is say the king and the other dudes are like common grunts - they wouldn't really be inchamber advisors cause then the vassal states would be like "Yo, you got to listen to us too".

[Aerozord]

Personally the art style that always got me most was Naruto because it made no practical sense, ignoring a ninja wearing fluorescent orange, why in the same climate do you see one character in shorts and a t-shirt, and another in a heavy fur coat?
I was more intriguied by the medieval King/Lord comparision. Cause medieval kings ruled fuck all and the lords pretty much did what they wanted and the king really only ruled by consent.

isn't this all government though? I mean whatever ruler is in charge is still just one guy whose "power" is really just assumed. This is actually one of the reasons they had lords of equal standing. Each lord figured if they attempted to take kings position others would stop him, if they dont well no reason they cant do the same, then a domino effect as a series of battles until its a unified whole simply because you are the only one left, or variations

Never looked it up but I'm betting thats how most feudal eras ended, mergers and conquests until one remained.

My point is, all rulers rely on their military and government officials simply accepting they are in charge, one of the reasons they do accept this is because they atleast believe most others do and they will be shot down if they disobey. Revolution is when people try and test this assumption

[Gregness]

Naruto wearing orange never bothered me actually. I mean, what does it matter what you're wearing if you can just magically transform into damn near anything if you need to?

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Personally the art style that always got me most was Naruto because it made no practical sense, ignoring a ninja wearing fluorescent orange, why in the same climate do you see one character in shorts and a t-shirt, and another in a heavy fur coat?


isn't this all government though? I mean whatever ruler is in charge is still just one guy whose "power" is really just assumed. This is actually one of the reasons they had lords of equal standing. Each lord figured if they attempted to take kings position others would stop him, if they dont well no reason they cant do the same, then a domino effect as a series of battles until its a unified whole simply because you are the only one left, or variations

Never looked it up but I'm betting thats how most feudal eras ended, mergers and conquests until one remained.

My point is, all rulers rely on their military and government officials simply accepting they are in charge, one of the reasons they do accept this is because they atleast believe most others do and they will be shot down if they disobey. Revolution is when people try and test this assumption

It's a lot easier to have centralised power these days, however, when everything in the world is basically instantly accessible. If your vassal is like 10 days ride away, you're not going to keep that close an eye on him.
Feudalism basically ended, though the point of when and where and how is ended is arguable, because of the rise of money, industry, merchants, the middle class. Feudalism relied on control of farmlands and once this didn''t become as valuable they lost a lot of their power.
Feudalism was not even really "accept this guy in charge" more "helping this guy suits my interests but the moment it doesn't I will fuck him so hard".

[BitVyper]

For those of you who don't remember that G1 optimus was the fucking man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fB0_vJUc3o4)

I should point out that when I said the G1 cartoon was terrible, I meant the G1 cartoon itself. The movie is awesome no matter what people say.

[bluestarultor]

Man, Vanille and Fang's character designs totally don't match Lightning's or Hope's. And what's Snow supposed to be, some sort of surfer dude? WHAT WERE THEY SMOKING???

You know that doesn't hold any water. For starters, all the people from Cocoon have design similarities in their outfits that makes it clear they're from the same culture. The cut of the clothing is all in the same range, with consistently large collars and lapels, gloves all suited to their jobs and weaponry, and all four are wearing boots with similar design specs between them. Sazh and Lightning share a pauldron on one shoulder. All four wear a jacket.

These similarities suggest fashion trends in their society. I could continue with the inspirations for Vanille and Fang's outfits, but I think I've made my point.

[Fifthfiend]

Man, Vanille and Fang's character designs totally don't match Lightning's or Hope's. And what's Snow supposed to be, some sort of surfer dude? WHAT WERE THEY SMOKING???

Risible suggestions according to noncon: that the characters of FF13 look like they were designed by someone on drugs

[Fifthfiend]

BRB guys, I have to go buy half a skirt.

[Fifthfiend]

And an arm-length fingerless glove.

[bluestarultor]

Methinks you're mistakenly associating "consistent" with "good." :P

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If I show up to save the world and some body else in my rag-tag team of ne'erdowells is wearing the same or similar outfit to me I'm going to change first town we come across. Cause when they right tales about our adventurers you can beat the bard is going to remember the guy in rainbow flares and a mohawk over the five guys who were just weraing like jeans and a shirt.

[Aerozord]

my rag-tag team of ne'erdowells

though his point was more, this isn't a rag-tag team, its a group of politically aligned aristocrats

[Fifthfiend]

I think really the ideal approach for this new series would for all of the Thundercats to be naked and just have no genitals, like they were in the first episode of the original series, but then instead of getting costumes, they just go on bein' naked all the time.

[Aerozord]

I think really the ideal approach for this new series would for all of the Thundercats to be naked and just have no genitals, like they were in the first episode of the original series, but then instead of getting costumes, they just go on bein' naked all the time.

you just want to see a naked Cheetara every episode, be honest

[Professor Smarmiarty]

though his point was more, this isn't a rag-tag team, its a group of politically aligned aristocrats

Then why are they fighting and not like rounding up some peasants to do it for them?

[Fifthfiend]

you just want to see a naked Cheetara every episode, be honest

I don't know how anyone could possibly conclude I was being or was in any way planning to be dishonest about that.

[bluestarultor]

Then why are they fighting and not like rounding up some peasants to do it for them?

If we go by the original series, it basically was "Krypton's gonna splode! Save the nobles!" and so they did, and the nobles all went to a new planet before finding out much later that some of the peasants had survived, so they plopped the peasants on their new planet and gave them a hand-me-down castle before rebuilding their sploded planet into a NEW new planet and making another castle that was even better than the old one just to enforce some class divisions.

[Aerozord]

If we go by the original series, it basically was "Krypton's gonna splode! Save the nobles!" and so they did, and the nobles all went to a new planet before finding out much later that some of the peasants had survived, so they plopped the peasants on their new planet and gave them a hand-me-down castle before rebuilding their sploded planet into a NEW new planet and making another castle that was even better than the old one just to enforce some class divisions.

thats why the plot never made any sense to me, the bad guys basically wiped out an entire society, why even bother with them

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Bam!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=opB2f1BUvPk

[Bells]

That's... not bad.... i guess.

But "I ask you to fight like cats" made me chuckle a little bit. I Foresee memes

[Tev]

Yeah, that seems very watchable to me. Though the mixed dark ages/future tech is a bit harder to swallow now that I'm older than ten.

[Locke cole]

Hm. Was that blast of red from the sword's logo the usual Cat-Signal, or was it some sort of beam weapon?

Also; why no Panthro in the trailer? It showed everyone else...

[Jagos]

Yeah, that seems very watchable to me. Though the mixed dark ages/future tech is a bit harder to swallow now that I'm older than ten.

I still like mad max ...

[Tev]

I still like mad max ...Mad Max is post-apocalyptic tech. Thunder Cats is more Roman legions mixed with mecha.

[Fifthfiend]

No Panthro/Snarf, trailer is buttz

Hm. Was that blast of red from the sword's logo the usual Cat-Signal, or was it some sort of beam weapon?

I think the Cat Signal was a beam weapon?

[Fifthfiend]

I mean I'd feel bad about judging things based on ~my nostalgia~ except that everything in that trailer is 100% shameless pandering to nostalgia which makes it pretty hard to ignore that they're doing it wrong.

[Locke cole]

I saw Snarf on the balcony with Lion-O when the city was being bombed.

Some screenshots (http://www.thundercats.ws/news/thundercats-conventions-news-7/thundercats-images-from-wondercon-2011-98/). Thunder Tank in the 12th one.

[tacticslion]

I'd watch that!
...
... if I had tv.

[phil_]

The mascot characters are all very cute, and that's enough to make me watch this.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I'd watch that!
...
... if I had tv.

Do you have a semi Fast connection, & can watch YouTube? Most new shows can be found there. Sure, they get periodically pulled, but they'll be back soon enough.

SWB
-Also, CN tends to host the occasional episode here & there.
-Try looking for Young Justice, that should be up on the Tubes and is a good example.

[bluestarultor]

I saw Snarf on the balcony with Lion-O when the city was being bombed.

Some screenshots (http://www.thundercats.ws/news/thundercats-conventions-news-7/thundercats-images-from-wondercon-2011-98/). Thunder Tank in the 12th one.

Still, no Panthro.

This is inexcusable.

[Bells]

Hey let us just be thankful Tygra was not using a gun.. yet

[Ookalf]

Also; why no Panthro in the trailer? It showed everyone else...

I seem to recall hearing that he won't show up until a few episodes in.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I seem to recall hearing that he won't show up until a few episodes in.

From the trailer, it seems like the Cats get trashed from the outset. Possibly, because they don't use technology so much. Panthro & his tank, doesn't jive with this non-tech, so he might be an outsider Cat. So for the sake of setting up the premise, he's shunted off to the side.

Because otherwise the character might make things too easy from the start.

Like how Miss Martian was left out of the opener for Young Justice. A powerful psychic, like herself, would have just ruined the way the episode was played out & things would have been too easy.

SWB

[Locke cole]

Mmm.

Alright.

I mean, I've seen that screenshot with the new Thunder Tank, so all is right with me.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

New thunder tank looks awesome.

That's one more plus for this remake. The last plus being the thunder kittens turning out adorable.

[BitVyper]

Was that blast of red from the sword's logo the usual Cat-Signal, or was it some sort of beam weapon?

It DID occasionally shoot Zelda-style lasers in the old series.

[Fifthfiend]

I seem to recall hearing that he won't show up until a few episodes in.

First few episodes of the show = buttz.

[Observer]

I have no nostalgia for Thundercats because I watched He-Man instead. I admit the old He-Man cartoon was objectively terrible except for Skeletor's voice, which was awesome.

I have just two things to say from the outsider perspective.

1) Everything I have seen of the old show looked really dumb to me.
2) I thought the trailer looked pretty cool.

Feel free to roast me over the coals for not getting it, but I don't think it's just nostalgia fueled.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I have no nostalgia for Thundercats because I watched He-Man instead. I admit the old He-Man cartoon was objectively terrible except for Skeletor's voice, which was awesome.

I have just two things to say from the outsider perspective.

1) Everything I have seen of the old show looked really dumb to me.
2) I thought the trailer looked pretty cool.

Feel free to roast me over the coals for not getting it, but I don't think it's just nostalgia fueled.

Most things in the 80s looked dumb. That's pretty much it's charm really. That it's so campy it's lol good.

Well for everyone that's not a furry anyway.

[Kerensky287]

Most things in the 80s looked dumb. That's pretty much it's charm really. That it's so campy it's lol good.

Well for everyone that's not a furry anyway.

I assume you're referring to Cheetara in the 2nd bit, in which case I put forward that New Cheetara is way better in that she actually has the cat ear thing going on.

I'm going to reserve judgment (on the heavily skeptical side) however, because this could still easily range anywhere from Avatar the Last Airbender to the Zelda TV series.

A lot of my hesitation admittedly comes from seeing this image (http://www.thundercats.ws/news/attach/5/Thundercats-2011-Wondercon-Photos-006_1301916588.jpg) without context. I mean, is he gonna be like, Jar-Jar Binks, or is he gonna be more like Darths and Droids Jar-Jar Binks?

[phil_]

I'd imagine he'll be more like Hummy, who is the best character in her show. At least, I can dream.

[Magus]

Yeah, that seems very watchable to me. Though the mixed dark ages/future tech is a bit harder to swallow now that I'm older than ten.

Not a big fan of Final Fantasy, are you? ;)

[Fifthfiend]

Not a big fan of Final Fantasy, are you? ;)

Considering Liono is pretty much Furry Cloud

this image (http://www.thundercats.ws/news/attach/5/Thundercats-2011-Wondercon-Photos-006_1301916588.jpg)

ugh

Like there were literally two things they had to not fartz up for this show to maybe be good and they fartzed up both of them.

[Tev]

Not a big fan of Final Fantasy, are you? ;)I did okay in FFX when most of the tech was post apocalyptic junk called Machina.

[Krylo]

That link brings me to a white page that refuses to load.

What is this horrible image you speak of?

[phil_]

That link brings me to a white page that refuses to load.

What is this horrible image you speak of?Just new Snarf being adorable.

http://img861.imageshack.us/img861/4607/thundercats2011wonderco.jpg

It didn't load for me either, but using context clues I figured it out.

[Kerensky287]

(My bad, sorry about that)

I mean, like, it's not hard to think of a context where that makes Snarf awesome. Like... if they just sabotaged some crap and that's Snarf just trolling the shit out of the bad guy.

But I'm more inclined to think that it's like, some ancient war goddess going EVEN SNARF, WITH HIS TINY SHELL, HOLDS A HEART OF TRUE GOLD or something.