"Horror Movie Questions" or "How Does Leatherface Not Cut Himself On His Saw?"

[Seil]

So I've a day off, which I've spent in, going over a backlog of films I've wanted to see for a while. On my list, I've gotten Texas Chainsaw Massacre: The Beginning (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=16vUScpEtLI). Yeah - a prequel to a remake of a classic flick. Not that good. It's not the worst thing ever, but it's low on the list. Plotwise, it's pretty standard. Maniac chases teens - not the point here.

The point is to show more of the Hewitt family - the cannibalistic tribe who're the main antagonist in the TCM films. It starts with a woman giving birth in a meat packing plant, and her boss is so assholish to assume she's drunk on the job when she collapses. She does give birth to a boy, and dies during the delivery. The asshole manager puts the baby in the dumpster. "Mama," the matriarch of the Hewitt family, finds him and raises him as her own, and calls him Thomas. Thomas gets a job at the slaughterhouse, and works there right up to the point that it becomes condemned. The place closing leads to the death of the small Texas town which depended on it for work, and everyone begins to move away, meaning no money or food coming in. But tourists and biker gangs sometimes go by.

Anyway, I couldn't help but notice throughout the whole thing that Leatherface - Thomas Hewitt - likes using the chainsaw. He uses it for everything. Charlie, calls the chainsaw Thomas' "little buddy." Now, Thomas is retarded. (I don't like using that as a derrogitive, but that's what the condition is called: mental retardation.) He's also got a deformity - a flesh eating virus has taken part of his face, so he's taken to making masks for himself to cover it. So here's a large, slightly slow man wearing something over his face that's got to obstruct his vision somewhat, using a chainsaw to kill moving people. It's true, in the TCM movies, he meets his end on it, but how did he not lose a few fingers at least?

There's a lot of questions in horror flicks beyond "Why does the girl virgin die last?" and "Why are you running and screaming your location while a maniac chases you?" Anyone else got a question?

EDIT The whole bit of Hellraiser is that you've got that box thing, and before Pinhead can come through, you've got to solve the puzzle. Why the crap are people trying to solve the puzzle, even though when one gets closer to finishing it, a bell starts tolling?

[phil_]

EDIT The whole bit of Hellraiser is that you've got that box thing, and before Pinhead can come through, you've got to solve the puzzle. Why the crap are people trying to solve the puzzle, even though when one gets closer to finishing it, a bell starts tolling?Bell could mean prizes, man; you don't know.

[Seil]

Let's say I'm finishing a puzzle - like a really, well made, fine puzzle. As I begin to finish it, this happens:
The interior surfaces were brilliantly polished. Frank's reflection — distorted, fragmented — skated across the lacquer.... Lemarchand, who had been in his time a maker of singing birds, had constructed the box so that opening it tripped a musical mechanism, which began to tinkle a short rondo of sublime banality. And there was music too; a simple tune emerged from the box, played on a mechanism that she could not yet see. Enchanted, she delved further. Though one piece had been removed, the rest did not come readily. Each segment presented a fresh challenge to fingers and mind, the victories rewarded with a further filigree added to the tune.

...

The puzzle draws the player onward until suddenly the puzzle is solved and the gateway is opened. As the puzzle is nearly completed, the sound of a large bell can be heard tolling mournfully. The sound comes from the realm of the Cenobites, and announces their impending arrival. Once the gate is opened, the box begins reassembling itself.

You buy this totally cool puzzle box from... what, a garage sale? An antique shop? Then you go home and work on it for a bit. After a few hours you're starting to get into the swing of things, and after a bit, you trigger a music box. Then you look up and realize that it's night and you're solving a puzzle box that's singing to you in the dark. After a bit, a bell starts up and at this point you get totally creeped out and say "Fuck this," throw the box in the garbage and get your puzzle fix from Portal 2.

[Magus]

It's probably a curiosity thing, hearkening back to Pandoric myth.

As for the newer Texas Chainsaw Massacre, I believe there is a scene where the heroine stabs one of her friends on a meathook to put him out of his misery...and then leaves the knife in his guts for no apparent reason. She is not even being chased at this time or anything, just moves off slowly. So the question is, why are horror movie protagonists so averse to actually having weapons to fight off maniacal killers?

[Seil]

As for the newer Texas Chainsaw Massacre, I believe there is a scene where the heroine stabs one of her friends on a meathook to put him out of his misery...and then leaves the knife in his guts for no apparent reason.

From what I remember, I think it was Jessica Beil's character. She had already seen her friend cut up by a chainsaw, the man who did it literally wearing her boyfriend's face which he got after skinning him, and was generally maltreated by the Hewitts - Hoyt in particular. She then is captured and held in the basement - the place where Leatherface "prepared the meat." Arguably, her boyfriend's skinless corpse is there, along with her friend stuck up on a meat hook, leg cut off and the stub wrapped in salt and butcher paper.

I can't remember if she left the knife in or not, but I think that it's forgivable. She wasn't even sure if she was gonna get out or not - and there's a bunch of knives and hooks to choose from in there. (Arguably.)

[Krylo]

EDIT The whole bit of Hellraiser is that you've got that box thing, and before Pinhead can come through, you've got to solve the puzzle. Why the crap are people trying to solve the puzzle, even though when one gets closer to finishing it, a bell starts tolling?

It'd be a shitty short movie if they didn't finish solving it.

[Seil]

It'd be a shitty short movie if they didn't finish solving it.

Yeah, but it'd also be a short movie if Leatherface only had one arm. He couldn't rev up that chainsaw.

[phil_]

I'm trying to find any scene from Hellraiser where someone does the box, but all I get are pages and pages of "Lookit this awesome Hellraiser puzzle box I made it sings!" I found something more promising, a video described as "The opening scene to Hellraiser," and I'm like, "Oh, maybe the movie opens with someone doing the box." And maybe the movie does start that way, I dunno, because it wasn't the opening scene to Hellraiser, it was some scrawny college kid with his shirt off re-enacting what may be the opening. There wasn't even any audio!

We live in a world where you can instantly find any Monty Python sketch down to the line, but, if I want to see a puzzle box drag people to hell, I gotta go to the video store.

So that's my horror movie concern.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I've always had one question about haunted house movies: Why don't you just pack up and get the hell out of that house?! "Insidious" may be the only movie to totally avert that problem.

[Archbio]

Yeah, but it'd also be a short movie if Leatherface only had one arm. He couldn't rev up that chainsaw.

How not groovy (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGyCXvzmdYc) of you, Seil.

EDIT The whole bit of Hellraiser is that you've got that box thing, and before Pinhead can come through, you've got to solve the puzzle. Why the crap are people trying to solve the puzzle, even though when one gets closer to finishing it, a bell starts tolling?

In the original, the guy who set the plot in motion wanted to solve the Configuration because he was a huge jaded pervert. He didn't know exactly what was in store for him, though.

A lot of problems with shitty horror movie sequels go away if you ignore the shitty sequels.

[Seil]

I've always had one question about haunted house movies: Why don't you just pack up and get the hell out of that house?! "Insidious" may be the only movie to totally avert that problem.

Well, Ju-On, but yeah. Then again, The Amityville Horror did have a slow buildup. Not so much in the recent version, but in the first one the only big clue that maybe something was up was that the house screamed "Get out!" at a priest.

We live in a world where you can instantly find any Monty Python sketch down to the line, but, if I want to see a puzzle box drag people to hell, I gotta go to the video store.

http://watch-movies.ro/imagini/drag%20me%20to%20hell%202009.jpg

In the original, the guy who set the plot in motion wanted to solve the Configuration because he was a huge jaded pervert. He didn't know exactly what was in store for him, though.

A lot of problems with shitty horror movie sequels go away if you ignore the shitty sequels.

I've heard there's a bit in the second one where a dude who collects the Lament cube things and he wants one opened, so he gives it to this girl. The girl opens it and Pinhead says to hold off on her, because "It is not hands that call us, but desire."

The sequels get stupider over time, but sometimes you can give a fine character point to a villain.

[Archbio]

The sequels get stupider over time, but sometimes you can give a fine character point to a villain.

In that case, though, I think even fine characterization is stupid, from a sequelization standpoint. Watching the original Hellraiser film (which is by no means a great classic or anything, but still,) it really would never have occured to me to give the "Pinhead" Cenobite character a proper name (rather than just a descriptive moniker for the credits) and a distinct personality from the others. It kind of goes counter to the effect of having these alien fiends from another dimension.

[Seil]

The flicks are based on a book written by Clive Barker - The Hellbound Heart. They're all from Hell, and apparently, Pinhead is an boss/leader/thing of some kind.

[Archbio]

In The Hellbound Heart the Cenobites are numbered rather than named. I think in the original film it would be fair to call the "Pinhead" Cenobite the mouthpiece for the lot of them.

Anyway, on second thought, the quote you cited really refers to the Cenobites in a collective way, so I guess my complaint really doesn't apply specifically to that. It seems like a logical bit of characterization.

The chainsaw in The Texas Chainsaw Massacre actually pulls what I attribute to Pinhead, having been singled out in successive versions, with the role growing out of proportion to what it was originally (as the filmmakers go for the easiest marketing icon.) Sure, the chainsaw's in the title, but in the original film doesn't the killer just go in a rampage with it at the end? I never got the sense that it was meant to represent some kind of usual Modus Operandi or even weapon of choice, with the title referring to the in-story nickname given to that rampage.

That is, instead of being merely just a crudely descriptive, very shlocky title to a very shlocky series of films. Which is what it easily looks like with the sequels and remakes factored in. I've tried to explain this shift in meaning to someone once after having referenced the movie by title and feeling a little embarassed. Like the original was really classy, or something.

[Seil]

TCM is interesting, because Leatherface is not really a villain in a strict sense of the word. He's not even really part of the Hewitt family. He's just mentally deficient and does whatever they tell him to do.

As for the chainsaw thing, I think they went heavier on it in Beginning (or whatever it was called) than in the 200-something remake. People intrigued by the first remake went and saw a follow up that didn't follow through. (See also Halloween by Rob Zombie.)

[Amake]

I used to have one such question about The Ring, "What happens if you go deep into the woods where there's no television or cameras for the spooky girl to see you or appear out of?" But fandom set me straight about that. It turns out Samara doesn't use high technology to work her magic, but reflective surfaces. Alright, I thought, you could still go somewhere with no reflective surfaces such as deep into the woods. But I forgot one reflective surface which is the last place you'd ever want her to crawl out of. Can you figure it out?

[Kim]

I've always had one question about haunted house movies: Why don't you just pack up and get the hell out of that house?! "Insidious" may be the only movie to totally avert that problem.

Stanley Kubrick's The Shining handled it pretty well, I thought.

[Token]

I used to have one such question about The Ring, "What happens if you go deep into the woods where there's no television or cameras for the spooky girl to see you or appear out of?" But fandom set me straight about that. It turns out Samara doesn't use high technology to work her magic, but reflective surfaces. Alright, I thought, you could still go somewhere with no reflective surfaces such as deep into the woods. But I forgot one reflective surface which is the last place you'd ever want her to crawl out of. Can you figure it out?

Your eye?

[PyrosNine]

The only thing I think is unforgivable about some horror movies is the extreme DENIAL on the part of the main characters. They've already seen something freaky, a few people are dead and they are aware that they are dead, shit has gotten real, and then they just want to go deeper and deeper into that damn house to find out what happened to that one friend who disappeared like all the others before they died! And of course, the one guy who says "hey, let's gtfo, she's probably dead" is treated like an ass, or is believed to be the murderer.

Or like Halloween, where Laurie runs outside the hospital, and sees that her car tires have been deinflated, but the car still starts! Driving away from a maniac on flat tires is still better than walking! Heck, walking away from a maniac is still better than walking back into the hospital you just ran out of to escape from the damn villain!

I mean, there is diabolus ex machina, where coincidences keep our heroes stuck in the situation when all logic would state that they should have gotten out by now, or there's a malevolent force that isn't a hack of a writer keeping them there, but in realistic horror and even some supernatural, the characters are perfectly capable of surviving and yet DURRR. That, and none of them take their cars in for regular inspections!

Much of the death toll of The Ring and it's ilk is full of the derp, as even the creepy all knowing child knows he shouldn't watch the tape, and yet then he goes and watches it. and thent here are all the peeps and friends who actually go out of their way to take the tape from the main character (who said, hey, don't watch this, you've seen all the people who died from watching this) and then watch it, and when they're about to die they straight up admit that they are the dumbest individuals ever.

Nanashi no Game has the only person who routinely helps you and has a sane, rational mind lacking in interpersonal discord...play the accursed game FOR SCIENCE. A few days ahead of you. WITHOUT TELLING YOU. Probably because he realized you'd think he was an ass!

In terms of Japanese Horror though, they do always give a good reason for why the character's can't just leave, or runaway. The curse marks them wherever they go, and even has their cell phone number. The Durrr usually comes with people knowingly grabbing onto the vector, or being straight up told what to do about the curse and saying it's crazy after having been perved on in the shower by a meowing ghost child. Siren, Fatal Frame, and the like always trap the main character, either by a curse, a loved one, or putting them in the underworld, where the spirit realm meets the living world, and can't be exited so easily.

The Haunting (not the black and white one, the one where that dude loses his head to lion pendulum in the fireplace of all g-D places) managed to show how the characters couldn't escape so easily, with smashed windows repairing themselves, doors becoming unbreakable, etc. Of course, they still have some durr, when all the fence does when smashed with a car is drop a loose and inexplicably spiked headpiece thing on the car. At no point do any of the characters consider that since the spiked thing is gone, they could have climbed over it.

In more recent stories, apparently Daniel in Amnesia, the Dark Descent, would have been just fine if he'd just gone home after his stay in the hospital. The wiki brings this up, though this may have been a plot hole by the writers who still wanted him to be a little sympathetic.

[Seil]

That, and none of them take their cars in for regular inspections!

I thought it was Michael slashing all the tires when he walked in.

Much of the death toll of The Ring and it's ilk is full of the derp, as even the creepy all knowing child knows he shouldn't watch the tape, and yet then he goes and watches it. and thent here are all the peeps and friends who actually go out of their way to take the tape from the main character (who said, hey, don't watch this, you've seen all the people who died from watching this) and then watch it, and when they're about to die they straight up admit that they are the dumbest individuals ever.

The dude, I think, had his curiosity piqued - like "Do not watch this, this is bad." Of course he did it. And I dun think whatserface ever specifically told the kid not to watch the tape. He just saw a movie and was like "Hey, what's this?"

[The Sevenshot Kid]

My other problem with some horror movies is when the people just instantly get what's going on with almost no denial whatsoever. It's like they all got together at one point and said, "You know what, we're obviously dealing with some supernatural shit." That's what bothered me about Evil Dead 2, even though I absolutely love that movie, or in Death Note where the entire world seems totally willing to accept the idea of a supernatural serial killer.

[Seil]

"You know what, we're obviously dealing with some supernatural shit." That's what bothered me about Evil Dead 2, even though I absolutely love that movie,

I think the recording they play that recites the magic words give them some hint.

[Fifthfiend]

You seriously think that if you found some cool puzzle thing at a garage sale and then as you solve it you find out that it's an awesome glowing music-making magical puzzle of awesome that you'd stop?

If you found that puzzle at a garage sale you would totally fucking solve it and as crazy impossible awesome shit started happening you'd start solving it even harder probably believing you were about to open up a stairway to heaven or have a genie pop out of this thing and grant you wishes, which is the entire point of that storytelling device in the first place, which is all that shit is obviously the stuff your average puzzle-solving joker is going to imagine is about to happen right up to the moment that pinface pops out and murders you and drags you into his freakyass universe of nonconsensual S&M.