"Phase Four: Successful" aka the "Thor" thread

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I just got back from seeing Thor and my only thought is that Marvel must have kidnapped a leprechaun cause they hit this ball right out of the park. There was not a single thing about this movie that detracted from the experience for me. I even saw this in 3-D and I forgot all about those stupid glasses.

This movie is better than Hulk, it's better than the Iron Man movies and that't because it does not shy away from it's comic book roots in the slightest. I didn't believe Kenneth Branagh when he said he had been a fan of the comic when he was younger but now I have no choice. Everything in this movie is lovingly adapted from the source material in a new and interesting sort of way that doesn't betray it's roots.

The cast is superb, the story is superb, the writing is great, and the effects are pitch perfect. Special mention has to be made of the performance Hiddleston gives as Loki. He portrayed a wildly complex character that he and Branagh had to have worked on together a lot to get right. This movie is unashamed of where it comes from and it has real weight when events unfold on screen.

Seeing how well this was done makes me worried about Captain America's potential (or lack thereof) of successfully following this film. You should see this movie even if you only have a passing interesting in movies in general.

[Bells]

The romantic subplot WAS rushed though and Thor's ability to see the error of it's ways was a bit "too fast", But this is all forgiven for what the movie is and everything it does right it does SUPER right, and the comedy was tuned to perfection in a way that i feel it should be used as a teaching tool in Cinema classes

[The Sevenshot Kid]

The romantic subplot WAS rushed though and Thor's ability to see the error of it's ways was a bit "too fast", But this is all forgiven for what the movie is and everything it does right it does SUPER right, and the comedy was tuned to perfection in a way that i feel it should be used as a teaching tool in Cinema classes

I agree on some of those problems but the thing about the first issue you brought up is that they didn't try to sell you too hard so much as lay a realistic groundwork. And the second thing was forgiven because of how the character was portrayed. He wasn't trying to do the wrong thing but was just so wrapped up in himself until he hit that wake up point.

Although I did have a problem with the slanted camera angles. It bugged me quite a bit at first.

[Mannix]

I liked Iron Man 1 better than Thor. I'd say Thor was about on par with IM2, which still puts it way above the vast majority of other comic book movies.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

Saw it about a week ago with a friend. The 3d didn't really do much for either of us to be honest, but the rest of the film was great all round. Special mention has to go to Idris Elba who played Heimdall. Out of all the secondary characters he was by far the most interesting and best played.

And the super not-so-secret after credits scene was interesting too, Cosmic Cube now in SHIELDS possession, hints possibly towards Thanos being the main villain in Avengers maybe?

Still really looking forward to Capt. America and Avengers now.

[Amake]

I didn't like that they gave Loki some kind of cockeyed humanoid motivation. He's all "I have to protect my people" and "The Aesir need a sense of consistency and security" (at which point by the way someone in the theater stage-whispered "He must have confused the Aesir with the Americans" (it was me (I said it (I regret nothing)))), which IMO is pretty weak for the God of mischief and betrayal and chaos. Also pretty weird how everyone's all surprised when he turns out to be evil. Good character and all, but it's like they were scared to write him as something other than human. Although they might not be supposed to be gods in this movie I think.

Other than that, I loved every moment without even recognizing any of the several favorite actors all over the place.

Interesting tidbit: Heimdall was chosen to guard the bridge because can see for a hundred leagues and hear the grass grow. And he has nine mothers.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I didn't like that they gave Loki some kind of cockeyed humanoid motivation. He's all "I have to protect my people" and "The Aesir need a sense of consistency and security" (at which point by the way someone in the theater stage-whispered "He must have confused the Aesir with the Americans" (it was me (I said it (I regret nothing)))), which IMO is pretty weak for the God of mischief and betrayal and chaos. Also pretty weird how everyone's all surprised when he turns out to be evil. Good character and all, but it's like they were scared to write him as something other than human. Although they might not be supposed to be gods in this movie I think.

I think they were more concerned with creating a complex and interesting villain rather than a one-dimensional god of mischief.

[Amake]

You can see Loki written as a complex, interesting and relatable character that's still true to his mythical archetype in Sandman. One doesn't necessarily exclude the other.

[BitVyper]

Terrible film. Female lead was bland as fuck and all her interaction with Thor sucked, and everything she touched became cliched as hell. Thor and Heimdall were pretty rad, but all the other characters were meh at best, and the humans were mostly annoying. Story was not particularly interesting, and Thor's character arc (probably the best written part of the film) was rushed as all hell and not very believable. Visuals were nothing we haven't seen done more effectively before, but I did like Thor and Heimdall's costumes - the other gods, again, weren't that exciting. Thor's buddies were all walking cliches, but at least fairly likable ones. And uuugh, it was just not a very good movie at all.

I liked the fight in Jhotunheim, and I liked the whole bit with the Destroyer. Everything else just sucked. Mass produced Hollywood crap.

Edit: I did kind of like Loki's dad, but then they did almost nothing with him.

[Marc v4.0]

I think someone here saw a different movie then the rest of us.

[TDK]

I loved the movie and found it to be entertaining, but I feel like it was missing something. It didn't really have a big climactic fight scene. It had plenty of fighting, but not a Big Fight. Like it could've been either Loki vs Thor or Thor vs The Destroyer but both of those as far as actual Fighting were over shortly.

Did the destroyer remind anyone else of the automoton from the Day the Earth Stood Still? The remake, specifically.

[synkr0nized]

This movie was dumb. It was predictable, failed to inspire excitement, had bland, unmotivated "villains", and forced a rushed, frivolous romance. The decent action and few points of humor didn't salvage the rest, and even the action fell short thanks to a lack of any kind of climax and a pretty weak "boss fight".

[Magus]

I liked it. I liked Thor's anachronistic behavior freaking people out and I liked Thor and his posse's plucky attitude. I even liked that Loki guy despite his motivations and overall "plan" being somewhat confusing.

Most of the criticism mainly seems to be "It ain't The Godfather" to which I can only say of course, but for a comic book movie it was pretty good. It is not the absolute best comic book movie but it is certainly better than many of them, and better than a lot of action or science fiction films.

Also, as far as the "action" kind of tapering off, pretty sure Destroyer was the "climax" of the film's action, fight with Loki seemed fairly drawn out/ten minutes long though? Seemed like a decent ending sequence, it was certainly longer than what we got with Iron Man 2's final battle with Whiplash, especially if you add in the obligatory "post-credits scene", and the final battle managed to have some level of emotional weight since Thor is cutting himself off from his one true love, which is fairly more than they manage in most of these things.

[Viridis]

I liked Odin, Loki, and the bridge guy a lot better than Thor. Like, Loki seemed like a pretty complex guy what with the "Oh no I'm a frost giant" stuff.

The romantic subplot WAS rushed though and Thor's ability to see the error of it's ways was a bit "too fast",
This I agree with. Very much a feel of 'obligatory romance plot' the way they handled it.

[BitVyper]

Most of the criticism mainly seems to be "It ain't The Godfather"

Uh, no. Try again. This is not an issue of setting the bar too high, it's an issue of having standards at all.

I mean, if they don't match yours, or you liked the movie, that's fine and all, but this is just belittling other peoples' problems with it. It didn't need to be this generation's Godfather for me to like it.

[synkr0nized]

Also, as far as the "action" kind of tapering off, pretty sure Destroyer was the "climax" of the film's action, fight with Loki seemed fairly drawn out/ten minutes long though? Seemed like a decent ending sequence, it was certainly longer than what we got with Iron Man 2's final battle with Whiplash, especially if you add in the obligatory "post-credits scene", and the final battle managed to have some level of emotional weight since Thor is cutting himself off from his one true love, which is fairly more than they manage in most of these things.


man

All Thor had to do was sacrifice himself for the others to get his powers back to defeat that thing. If a person didn't see that coming from the beginning then I guess the story would seem interesting to that person. It was a terrible fight since no one did ANYTHING to it until he confronted it, got Mjolnir back, and went super saiyajin Thor on it. His band of friends were, as throughout the movie, unable to do anything (speaking of it's like the Asgardians only win wars because Odin can defeat armies by looking at them and Thor's powers are ridiculously OP). And the sacrifice of contact as having emotional weight? Please -- I'm supposed to believe that having Natalie Portman hit him with a car a few times and drive him to Mjolnir is enough for epic love? Even the Transformers romance was more solid. Plus what's-her-name (Sif?) is totally carrying a torch for him. What a jerk.

And then there's Loki. Was I supposed to feel sorry for him or consider him a compelling villain with motives? hahaha OK.



e: We're on the way to the Avengers, though, and that could be awesome. I think I might enjoy Captain America's movie -- who'll come after that (Iron Man, Thor, Cap, ...)?

[BitVyper]

See Thor's "redemption" annoyed the shit out of me. Like, he somehow goes from being such an arrogant brat that Odin will straight up cast him out of Asgard and take away all his powers to like, full personal revelation, realising the error of his ways, and completely turning over a new leaf in what, a day? Two? It's not even that I don't believe he'd stand up for people in the situation he was in, but getting the fullness of his powers back plus entry to Asgard should not have been that easy. I'm sorry, but if you want to make me believe he's actually grown as a person, you're gonna at least need to show some time lapse with him having to get used to living with weakness or something.

I don't even know if I can call his growth rushed, because I'm not sure it actually happened at all. This just makes Odin look decidedly unwise.

I would have even bought Mjolnir coming to his aid because he was actually doing something right and worthy of it, but not actually fully restoring him to his former glory. In fact, isn't that how it went in the comics at first? He was only Thor when he actually had the hammer?

No wonder Odin's kids suck. He's a shitty disciplinarian.

Edit: Ugggh, and the worst part is that it was all because of his twu wuv, but the romantic subplot was complete shit. I never thought I'd miss the days of Dunst-as-Mary-Jane.

If you're going to make a movie with this poor of a plot, then it basically needs to be Ong Bak 2; just a long string of non-stop beating shit up.

[synkr0nized]

There's only so much time in a movie. I guess I should give the same consideration to the romance subplot, but *shrug*.

I hear in the comic, or one version anyway, Loki has Thor convinced he's not an Asgardian but rather a mental patient with an over-active imagination. That seems like a great story, but it wouldn't fit in a movie probably.

If you're going to make a movie with this poor of a plot, then it basically needs to be Ong Bak 2; just a long string of non-stop beating shit up.

hahahah That movie was awful.



edit 2: I kind of thought of it the same way as Sevenshot below; I had enough other things I didn't like that his redemption, while fully expected, wasn't so bad.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

See Thor's "redemption" annoyed the shit out of me. Like, he somehow goes from being such an arrogant brat that Odin will straight up cast him out of Asgard and take away all his powers to like, full personal revelation, realising the error of his ways, and completely turning over a new leaf in what, a day? Two? It's not even that I don't believe he'd stand up for people in the situation he was in, but getting the fullness of his powers back plus entry to Asgard should not have been that easy. I'm sorry, but if you want to make me believe he's actually grown as a person, you're gonna at least need to show some time lapse with him having to get used to living with weakness or something.

I don't even know if I can call his growth rushed, because I'm not sure it actually happened at all. This just makes Odin look decidedly unwise.

I would have even bought Mjolnir coming to his aid because he was actually doing something right and worthy of it, but not actually fully restoring him to his former glory. In fact, isn't that how it went in the comics at first? He was only Thor when he actually had the hammer?

No wonder Odin's kids suck. He's a shitty disciplinarian.

I didn't really have a problem with his short redemption time. The way I saw it was that Thor's heart was in the right place but he had never experienced any powerlessness and thus didn't understand the consequences of his actions. By breaking him down and showing him that there are some things he can't do just by rushing at it head first, he learned to be more thoughtful.

Then again, I am a sixteen year old kid so it could be that I'm just more willing to buy that.

[Kim]

Movie was great, but I don't like dissing on people who didn't like it. Romance was shit, but I felt like the movie focused on it so little overall and that it was just a means to an end (the end being Thor's redemption) that I really didn't mind it. I really liked Loki as a villain, but I probably would have done things a bit differently with his development were it me. Loki's development and motivations were good, I just don't feel like the transition between them motivating him positively to motivating him to be evil was done as well as it could have. Thor's redemption actually works from the perspective I viewed his character, which I'll probably go into more in a later post. So, great movie, but it's fine if you didn't like it.

[synkr0nized]

it's fine if you didn't like it.

What, people need permission not to like things?

If folks feel that any of us with negative opinions about the movie are stepping over some kind of line in the thread, please note it. But the implication that the above post contains and the idea that a discussion of a movie holds any bearing on attitudes about posters themselves are equally silly things.

[Kim]

What, people need permission not to like things?

I mean, I meant it as being directed at some of the people I thought were being a little annoying in their condescension towards people who didn't like it, but if you want to get bent out of shape over this then knock yourself out.

[Magus]

Well my main point was really just "not high art, action movie, not as bad as Transformers" but since you thought it was worse than Transformers then, man, I just don't know. I was all like "man, I should watch my words better, I totally offended Synk" but then I read that you though it was worse than Transformers and I was just like "Man, that's just crazy. This shit is not worse than Transformers." I totally disagree with you, good sir, on the very basis and nature of that assertion. That is a special kind of curse I expect to see reserved to see leveled at the likes of Catwoman or Elektra, not your average comic book film.

Anyway, did anyone else just see this because it is part of the whole overall Marvel-movie-verse arc leading up to the Avengers? 'Cause I seriously just went to it because of that. That I actually enjoyed it quite a bit was pretty surprising, so maybe I think it's better than it actually is, probably. I liked that it had Hawkeye and references to Bruce Banner and Tony Stark in it, I got more out of that than actual Thor who I don't really care about. He seems overpowered, for one thing, like a Marvel Superman. Does he have some special weakness in the comics other than losing the hammer or does he just lose the hammer a lot?

[Marc v4.0]

Well my main point was really just "not high art, action movie, not as bad as Transformers" but since you thought it was worse than Transformers then, man, I just don't know. I was all like "man, I should watch my words better, I totally offended Synk" but then I read that you though it was worse than Transformers and I was just like "Man, that's just crazy. This shit is not worse than Transformers." I totally disagree with you, good sir, on the very basis and nature of that assertion. That is a special kind of curse I expect to see reserved to see leveled at the likes of Catwoman or Elektra, not your average comic book film.

Anyway, did anyone else just see this because it is part of the whole overall Marvel-movie-verse arc leading up to the Avengers? 'Cause I seriously just went to it because of that. That I actually enjoyed it quite a bit was pretty surprising, so maybe I think it's better than it actually is, probably. I liked that it had Hawkeye and references to Bruce Banner and Tony Stark in it, I got more out of that than actual Thor who I don't really care about. He seems overpowered, for one thing, like a Marvel Superman. Does he have some special weakness in the comics other than losing the hammer or does he just lose the hammer a lot?

He is mortal when on Earth, as I recall.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I feel like this and everything else Marvel's doing is doing a pretty good job at leading up to the Avengers and I for one can't wait. They took a giant gamble on this project and I really hope it succeeds.

[TDK]

He is mortal when on Earth, as I recall.

The norse gods were all mortal, in mythology. I find the mythology to be far more interesting for it.

[Amake]

Let me quote a bit from Red Orm here:

"He's not a Jute", said Berse, "but he says he's a Jew. This is a people from the east who killed the man the Christians hold for god. He was slain a long time ago, but the Christians still hate the Jews for it and will gladly kill them, and will not take any settlement or weregeld."

Berse added that he had heard some similar stories before, and several of the men said they had heard rumors along those lines. Orm said he had heard the dead man had been nailed to wood, like the sons of Lodbrok did with the high priest of England in the old days. But no one could understand how he could be held for a god after the Jews killed him, for a proper god could not be killed by humans.

Aside from some hilarious insights in Viking psychology, we see the gods usually aren't entirely mortal, especially not when visiting Midgard.

But the thing with Thor in the comics, at least in the earlier versions, his alter ego Donald Blake is disabled and even weaker than most mortals. These days dramatic tension usually comes from having Thor being either away on business in Asgard or politically opposed to SHIELD's business. He's really the closest Marvel has to Superman.

[synkr0nized]

Magus, I wasn't claiming this movie was worse than the Transformers movie. Rather, I was noting that I felt the "guy gets girl" part of the latter worked better/seemed less arbitrary and illogical.

[Magus]

Ah, point noted.

You forgot those twin robots, what the hell was up with those?

BTW I seriously thought that the comic books Thor was always a regular dude but he finds the hammer and becomes Thor, here it is actually in reverse? Or was I just wrong on this account?

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Ah, point noted.

You forgot those twin robots, what the hell was up with those?

BTW I seriously thought that the comic books Thor was always a regular dude but he finds the hammer and becomes Thor, here it is actually in reverse? Or was I just wrong on this account?

That's how it started out at first but then the writer's realized that was stupid and retconned it into being a punishment from Odin.

[MuMu]

Asgardians being aliens is something from Kirby, or at least is what I heard. The rest, well, whenever a superhero gets a reboot or transfered to another media, some things change but they always keep a similar origin. Captain America will get frozen and thawed, Stark will be captured by whoever we're fighting, Uncle Ben will die and Thor will be an arrogant fuck and get banned by Odin. You can see a version of that in Thor: Ages of Thunder/ Thor: Reign of Blood/ Thor: Man of War.

[Magus]

They could kill Aunt May next time and leave Ben alive.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

They could kill Aunt May next time and leave Ben alive.

Too bad they hired Marc Webb instead of Shyamalan.

[Solid Snake]

Personally, I'm a lot more excited for Captain America (he's always been my favorite Comic Book superhero, and remains so even though I'm no longer an uber-patriotic Republican robot), but I'm glad to hear most people apparently liked Thor. I'll be watching it after I'm done with the finals stuff.

[Fenris]

This movie left me feeling rather incomplete. It set me up for... something... but I'm not sure what.

Also, the pet store scene was the best scene. If you disagree, you are wrong.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Personally, I'm a lot more excited for Captain America (he's always been my favorite Comic Book superhero, and remains so even though I'm no longer an uber-patriotic Republican robot), but I'm glad to hear most people apparently liked Thor. I'll be watching it after I'm done with the finals stuff.

Captain America really worries me. I'm really not a fan of Joe Johnston's movies and the trailers are kind of off-putting. I remember hearing that this movie was pitched as "Saving Private Ryan but with Captain America" and that got me excited. But then the trailer comes around and it looks more like a James Bond style movie set during WWII.

I'm sure the movie will be alright but I'm just so disappointed that they didn't turn it into more of a normal war film. That's something that would have differentiated it from all of Marvel's other movies in a real big way.

[Solid Snake]

I'm nervous about Captain America because I fucking love the character so much, but I'm cautiously optimistic.

Very cautiously optimistic.

But if it is terrible and the worst Avengers movie I will not be happy.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I'm nervous about Captain America because I fucking love the character so much. . .

I'm in the same boat. He's such a good character and I do feel like they got him right from what I saw in the trailer if nothing else.

[rpgdemon]

I thought that Thor was pretty good, just got around to seeing it tonight.

[Viridis]

This movie left me feeling rather incomplete. It set me up for... something... but I'm not sure what.

Also, the pet store scene was the best scene. If you disagree, you are wrong.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/2383368/tumblr_lkviheXb0L1qjm6tmo1_500.jpg
“We don’t have horses, just cats and dogs and birds and lizards and stuff”

“Then bring me one large enough to ride!”

[Magus]

Captain America will be fine, I'm sure. It's hard to screw up Nazi-punching.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Captain America will be fine, I'm sure. It's hard to screw up Nazi-punching.

But they made Hydra the villain organization!

[Magus]

Nazi Germany was a front for Hydra or something, wasn't it? That seems like a fairly common comic trope so I'll just assume it was true. Basically if Red Skull is all like "I will aid Hitler in exchange for access to this ancient Thulian artifact" and uses Nazi henchmen then it's basically Nazi-punching.

[Kerensky287]

I just saw this movie tonight. I feel that they did as good a job as they could possibly have done with the source material.

By which I mean it was kind of crappy, but what do you expect when you have a cast too big to properly characterize and the main plot separates Thor from his powers until the conclusion of the central conflict?

You get a powerfully compelling protagonist who has dick all in the way of action scenes until the very end. And nobody is interesting except Thor, Heimdall and to some extent Loki.

Loki I'm not so sure about. He's a highly-intelligent God of Trickery, so it really depends on how much of that he planned out. If you interpret his actions as "one step ahead", then he becomes an engaging villain - notice that every time something happens that he couldn't have predicted, he STILL manages to turn the situation as much to his advantage as possible. The sad thing is that there's room for doubt, so maybe when he fell into the black hole at the end it really WAS a depressed suicide attempt? I mean, it looked to me like he garnered as much sympathy as possible from his family before throwing himself into a situation he explicitly stated that he knew how to escape from, while appearing to be killed for all intents and purposes. But maybe I'm giving him too much credit.

Still, let's look at what he managed to do:
-Form a plot to get his brother exiled, placing him as the heir, at the expense of starting a war he knew the Asgardians would win against a group he didn't care about. Succeeded.
-When Thor landed on Earth, Loki found him and tried to convince him that Odin was dead. Succeeded. Then managed to paint himself as the helpless good guy. Also succeeded.
-Ordered Heimdall to shut down Bifrost. Froze him when he proved to be disloyal. Would have succeeded in trapping Thor on Earth except that Heimdall is a total baller.
-Struck a deal with the Frost Giants, using their previous incursion as leverage, to put them in a position where he could kill their king just in time to save Odin, making Loki AGAIN look like the good guy. Succeeded, except that Thor showed up having learned of the previous trickery.
-Tried to gain face with Thor by destroying Jhotunheim, proving that Loki had no alliegance with the Frost Giants, eliminating a potential threat, and proving Loki's competence to any who might have objected to his reign. Would have worked if Thor hadn't matured while on Earth.
-After Thor destroyed Bifrost, they both fell toward a dimensional rift, which Loki couldn't have predicted. Odin woke up, saving them, which Loki ALSO couldn't have predicted. Loki let himself fall in what looked like a self-sacrificing maneouvre designed to let his brother live; instead, he fell into another realm (keeping in mind that he earlier told Heimdall that he knew of other ways to move between realms) as his family watched, letting them think he was dead so he could move on unimpeded.

The only shaky bit there is when Loki attacked Jhotunheim with Bifrost, but he might ACTUALLY have had a bit of the internal conflict he claimed to have, too. I figured he tried doing it just to prove he could.