Fuck DC

[The Sevenshot Kid]

OH GOD. I was pissed about the DC thing, but damn. You reminded me of OMD. Thanks for the perspective.

But seriously though.

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfko7gsfWH1qafrh6.jpg

I hate myself for saying this but this might be a bigger fuck up than "One More Day" and that was enough to make me stop reading Spider-Man titles that weren't Ultimate Spider-Man.

I just don't get it. DC had seeminlgy brought back the Silver Age. Heroes were being heroes and everything was fantastic. Why do this?

[Token]

I hate myself for saying this but this might be a bigger fuck up than "One More Day" and that was enough to make me stop reading Spider-Man titles that weren't Ultimate Spider-Man.

I just don't get it. DC had seeminlgy brought back the Silver Age. Heroes were being heroes and everything was fantastic. Why do this?

Because Geoff Jones needs to get his tongue out of the massive festering anus that is silver-age nostalgia. Jordan coming back and invalidating everything Kyle did isn't "fantastic." Barry Allen coming back and completely relegating Wally West to the sidelines is even worse. The only series with anything resembling decent writing in years has been Morrison's run on Batman, and while I'll be sad to see that go, all in all, this is a move for the best.

[Kim]

DC thread to be rebooted. Those bastards!

[Bard The 5th LW]

wait what

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Did DC just pull a Crisis on the thread?

[Kim]

wait what

In the new "Fuck DC" thread, POS still isn't a mod, Token's been permabanned, and Nique is actually a Nazi spy working for Lex Luthor's grandfather.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Would you believe that the irony of the situation hurts me a lot more than any punch ever would?

[Token]

IToken's been permabanned

Oh, I swear to primus, if I get brought back as a Black Lantern in a few years I will kill the fuck out of whoever wrote this plotline.

[Kim]

Oh, I swear to primus, if I get brought back as a Black Lantern in a few years I will kill the fuck out of whoever wrote this plotline.

:ohdear:

[POS Industries]

In the new "Fuck DC" thread, POS still isn't a mod
Fuck mods. I'mma be Sinestro Corps.

...Oh man they're gonna reboot the Sinestro Corps out of existence, aren't they? :(

[Token]

:ohdear:

FEAR.

[Fifthfiend]

Another perfect jumping-off point for soon-to-be-former readers.

Great job DC!

Because Geoff Jones needs to get his tongue out of the massive festering anus that is silver-age nostalgia.

If you think all of this isn't going to be "more silver-agey than ever (plus rape/gore)" you're kidding yourself IMO.

I'm guessing Johns takes the opportunity to kill off a few more minority characters / retcondivorce Lois & Clark.

EDIT: I love that this post is here in the middle of the thread BUT still shows up in forum view as the most recent.

[Token]

Another perfect jumping-off point for soon-to-be-former readers.

Great job DC!



If you think all of this isn't going to be "more silver-agey than ever (plus rape/gore)" you're kidding yourself IMO.

I'm guessing Johns takes the opportunity to kill off a few more minority characters / retcondivorce Lois & Clark.

Yeah, it almost definitely will be, but I'm trying to be a little optimistic. about this

[Bard The 5th LW]

was this an accident because if it was it is the best accident to ever happen since fifthfiend

[Fifthfiend]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/31/flashpast-brian-clevinger-dropped-from-firestorm-before-you-even-knew-he-was-on-it/

l o l

was this an accident because if it was it is the best accident to ever happen since fifthfiend

It's heartbreaking that this is just slightly too long to be my new user title.

[Fifthfiend]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/31/flashpast-brian-clevinger-dropped-from-firestorm-before-you-even-knew-he-was-on-it/

ha ha ha ha what

split off from the general "fuck DC" thread because seriously lolwut

[POS Industries]

Clevinger hired and immediately fired for not being Geoff Johns or Grant Morrison, film at 11.

[Token]

But... but I like Firestorm. This could have been brilliant.

[Fifthfiend]

Yeah, it almost definitely will be, but I'm trying to be a little optimistic. about this

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/31/flashpost-the-hooking-up-of-superman-and-wonder-woman/

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhhahhahahhahaha

edit: I can't wait for my posts to catch up wiht the original timestamps for this thread and start being randomly interspersed among them.

[Token]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/31/flashpost-the-hooking-up-of-superman-and-wonder-woman/

Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaahahahahhhahhahahhahaha

edit: I can't wait for my posts to catch up wiht the original timestamps for this thread and start being randomly interspersed among them.

Everything hurts. Nothing is beautiful.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm2navrH6d1qafrh6.gif

[Fifthfiend]

Everything hurts. Nothing is beautiful.
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lm2navrH6d1qafrh6.gif

I'm going to write DC a thank-you note for finally making it possible for me to never give a shit about anything they do ever again.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Those bastards are rebooting everything. Every. Single. Thing.

Link (http://comics.ign.com/articles/117/1171671p1.html).

Seriously, what the fuck are these people thinking? DC comics have been getting better and better over the decade and I was really excited to see where they were gonna go but now they're copping out. The experiment in great storytelling is fucking over.

And no more Dick Grayson as Batman. That was the most interesting and exciting thing that DC has done in a long time and now it's all over.

I'm going back over to Marvel.

[Nique]

Fuck DC


Hoo hoo this thread should be good. Be sure to talk about Frank Miller at some point!

I'm going back over to Marvel.

Where they will be doing the exact same thing within 6 months?

[Jagos]

I'm going back over to Marvel.

... I can't tell if this is serious or damn near trolling...

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Where they will be doing the exact same thing within 6 months?

When Marvel fucks up they find a way to "fix" it without throwing away all the continuity. "One More Day" for example. They screwed up on that but it didn't mean throwing everything away.

[Lumenskir]

Those bastards are rebooting everything. Every. Single. Thing.
So, what they promised and should have actually done post-Crisis?

[Aerozord]

they all reboot, all the time, period. If not nearly every single one of them would be dead from old age, and it would probably still be 1970

[Marc v4.0]

Obviously serious. How can you not believe they aren't going to do the exact same thing as well later?

[POS Industries]

Well, at least they'll be able to get rid of a little bathwater while throwing out all those babies.

[Token]

When Marvel fucks up they find a way to "fix" it without throwing away all the continuity. "One More Day" for example. They screwed up on that but it didn't mean throwing everything away.



OH GOD. I was pissed about the DC thing, but damn. You reminded me of OMD. Thanks for the perspective.


But seriously though.

"fix"

"One More Day"

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lfko7gsfWH1qafrh6.jpg

[synkr0nized]

Reading this thread with everything out of order is kind of amazing.

[Seil]

Call it a "deal with the Devil." (http://digiwallpaper.com/walls/deadpool_and_spiderman-other.jpg)

[Aerozord]

Call it a "deal with the Devil." (http://digiwallpaper.com/walls/deadpool_and_spiderman-other.jpg)

now THATS perspective

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Uh... DC... why don't you kill these fucking superhero fossils off already?

As long as you let Grant Morrison write for you everything that ever happened will be canon anyway, even if it doesn't make any sense. Because at least I won't have to guess what happened in the past now and what not. It's fine when Morrison does it, though. Because for some reason he can write really really good.

Aside from whatever the hell Morrison does a reboot is much better than letting that mess that is the DC Universe as it is live on. Who knows? Maybe I'll even pick up one of those books. I'd much rather see DC give up it's random superheroes and the fucking DCU completely, though and focus on, dunno... new original stuff? How about that? More writer owned stuff? Or at least stuff where they get full creative control. I'd be all for that.

[Arhra]

Hey wait a moment, you mean they're just going "Hey guys, we're doing a reset" instead of inventing some stupid crossover plot tangle whatsit that is going to CHANGE THINGS FOREVER which really involves halfassedly changing a few things back to the way they were and making whatever passes for continuity in comics even more inbred?

And this is a bad thing?

EDIT: Oh wait, so it is some big event whatsit? Kinda jeopardises chances of a clean reboot by doing that. Eh, it's not like I really read comics anyway.

[Revising Ocelot]

Reading this thread with everything out of order is kind of amazing.

I echo the concerns of Red Tahoma. Did some funky time travelling posts get spliced around?

[Sky Warrior Bob]

Didn't Marvel claim they were doing this with the Ultimate line of comics? Not producing anything but Ultimate, until they switched back to the older series?

Or am I just getting my memories wrong again?

As for DC, I figure they'll make the change & find out nobody likes them anymore. Then change most of the stuff back. Maybe.

Not that it matters to me. I like some of the stories that come from the comics originally, but I'm not an avid reader, so every time I pick up a single issue of anything, I'm utterly lost.

So as long as cartoons & movies are uneffected, I don't think I care much.

[Osterbaum]

As someone who hasn never intensively read DC's or any other company's long standing series but maybe like to, I see some potential in this. Maybe now I'll be able to get into some comic series without having to instantly feel like I need to familiriaze myself with a vast universe and it's lore.

[Fifthfiend]

As someone who hasn never intensively read DC's or any other company's long standing series but maybe like to, I see some potential in this. Maybe now I'll be able to get into some comic series without having to instantly feel like I need to familiriaze myself with a vast universe and it's lore.

Hahahahahaha no you totally still will. It's a "soft reboot" so they're totally keeping random bits and pieces of the various characters' legacies and backstories while getting rid of randomly selected other things and alternately grafting on entirely new bits of backstory that nobody will know anything about because they'll just have been invented.

It's the kind of super-sharp sure-fire comic book company business move where you leave all the current readers adrift and not knowing what's going on, while at the same time ensuring that new readers can't make any more sense of anything than they ever have.

inventing some stupid crossover plot tangle whatsit that is going to CHANGE THINGS FOREVER which really involves halfassedly changing a few things back to the way they were and making whatever passes for continuity in comics even more inbred?

This is more or less exactly what they're doing.

[Fifthfiend]

Like the last time DC decided to do one of these Big Jumping On Points for Nu Reedurz, you pretty much got stuff like... Robin, aka Tim Drake, finding out that Batgirl, aka Cassandra Cain, had started hunting down and murdering her sisters as part of her revenge plot against her dad, and had also become obsessed with fucking the shit out of Robin and convincing him to join her craaaaaaazy evil scheme. While Dick Grayson, Nightwing, became a serial killer, who turned out to be Jason Todd, Nightwing, who Dick Grayson, Nightwing punched until he, Jason Todd, turned out to actually be a huge purple pile of ooze.

Depending how much you know/care about any of these characters, that all makes you so furiously mad you can barely see straight, and/or makes no earthly sense to you whatsoever.

Congratulations, you've just experienced a Jumping On Point for New Readers. Now go buy Atomic Robo or something that won't pull this kind of shit on you.

[Krylo]

Hey wait a moment, you mean they're just going "Hey guys, we're doing a reset" instead of inventing some stupid crossover plot tangle whatsit that is going to CHANGE THINGS FOREVER which really involves halfassedly changing a few things back to the way they were and making whatever passes for continuity in comics even more inbred?

And this is a bad thing?

It is, because IDEALLY they wouldn't do either, because both are stupid as hell. And they would instead write a continuing story about these characters until they die of old age or in battle, at which point they would stay dead, and the mantle would be passed on to newer characters who may or may not take up the old character's persona.

Not that it'll ever happen, and it's blind wishful thinking to believe, or expect, otherwise.

However, as Fifth said, this is a soft reboot anyway, so it's not even the lesser of the two possible evils. And you should just not read either Marvel or DC at all, because of this kind of stupidity.

[Jagos]

It is, because IDEALLY they wouldn't do either, because both are stupid as hell. And they would instead write a continuing story about these characters until they die of old age or in battle, at which point they would stay dead, and the mantle would be passed on to newer characters who may or may not take up the old character's persona.


I truly wish I could see one character in DC or Marvel stay dead.

Robin doesn't count because they got a new one.

It's also a reason I like to stay with manga over American comics. Once a series is done, that's it.

[Aerozord]

well for all the fanboy complaints I think deep down this kind of thing is exactly what they want. I mean if they didn't want this tangled nightmare of a continuity then American comic industry would have died a long time ago. This is reinforced by how these more convoluted series are the ones that tend to sell the best

[Bard The 5th LW]

The only comic, Marvel or DC, that I read at all is Deadpool, so I'm pretty much unaffected. However, if this means I can ignore the shit that has transpired beforehand, then maybe I'll start reading Batman or something.

[MuMu]

Honestly, if you want to read comics, just read independent stories, one-shots and mini/maxiseries. No monthlies or big events(Well, except maybe Cosmic Marvel) that try to pretend they have a continuity and destroying it at the same time.

Also, Vertigo.

[Osterbaum]

Hahahahahaha no you totally still will. It's a "soft reboot" so they're totally keeping random bits and pieces of the various characters' legacies and backstories while getting rid of randomly selected other things and alternately grafting on entirely new bits of backstory that nobody will know anything about because they'll just have been invented.
In that case: Fuck DC.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

In that case: Fuck DC.

And now we've gone full circle.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I read some comics once. Some blue guy punched some red guys. It was pretty funny. They should just do that more.

[POS Industries]

Robin doesn't count because they got a new one.
Also because none of them have stayed dead, either. Jason Todd is now a shitty supervillain as the Red Hood and Stephanie Brown is Batgirl.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Also because none of them have stayed dead, either. Jason Todd is now a shitty supervillain as the Red Hood and Stephanie Brown is Batgirl.

And Dick Grayson was Batman! And it was awesome. That's the jumping off point that got me back into Batman comics. It gave me a new place to start off at without having to dump all continuity. I only ever read Morrison's run on Batman because I was so interested in seeing what he had done with the characters prior to "Batman & Robin."

So that's how I look at jumping off points, do something that introduces new aspects without throwing all the old ones away.

[POS Industries]

That's what's got me most pissed off about this. Dickbat and Damian, against all odds, have been a joy to read. Tim's run as Red Robin has been pretty great, and I'll even admit I've enjoyed Batsteph quite a bit.

But nope, probably about to get stuck with the old Bruce-Dick-Babs trifecta and it's a damn shame...

[Token]

Babs is Batgirl, and Dick is Nightwing. I couldn't care less about Cass or Steph, mostly because I haven't read most of their shit, but I'll miss Damian and Tim.

[POS Industries]

Babs is Batgirl, and Dick is Nightwing.
http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o159/posindustries/facepalm/1299967577226.jpg

[Fifthfiend]

I am so excited for Cass to be raptured up into Retcon Heaven, you have no idea.

Oh dear baby Jesus Superman please, please let this mean nobody at DC writes a story about her in anything, ever again.

[Fifthfiend]

At the same time I'm pretty sad about Damien not existing anymore because of this event, because it means I'll never get to see him stop existing anymore due to being thrown off a cliff and then repeatedly run over with a truck.

OH WELL

[Steel Shadow]

Damnit, Steph's the only character I buy comics for these days. She damn well better make it through this ok. (SPOILER: She wont.)

[Magus]

Goddammit, I got into comics one year too early, I just spent like a hundred bucks getting into this shit. Luckily it was mostly Batman, Inc. which seems enjoyable on any level...I hear that is the only one that is going to get finished so I guess I chose the right "batcomic" to get into.

I've also been getting the new Batman Beyond, are they going to leave that one alone, because it just started this year...besides it's set in the future or whatever, it has nothing to do with the current shit...unless they retcon Hush out of existence or something I'd say it's not a big deal at this point. So hopefully they leave it alone.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Apparently Morrison's Batman work won't all be undone.

Link. (http://www.comicvine.com/news/batman-incorporated-will-return-in-2012/143165/)

Not gonna lie, that's a major relief to me. I'm still pissed that Dick won't get to be Batman anymore but maybe he'll get the title back someday soon. But here's something else that's driving me up the wall: Barbara Gordon is back as Batgirl. Not only are they taking her out of the wheelchair but they're also taking Stephanie Brown out of the costume.

DC, why can't you just let your characters grow? Dick made real progress and for the first time ever Stephanie Brown wasn't annoying as all hell.

[Nique]

DC, why can't you just let your characters grow? Dick made real progress and for the first time ever Stephanie Brown wasn't annoying as all hell.

Personally, I'm fine with re-using the same characters forever-and-ever amen, just as long as they used within stories that end. (Elseworlds and One-Shots like 'Birthright', for instance). Even an ongoing complex continuity that lasts for a decade or two is fine, I just don't want them to try and retain previous continuities by crazy 'crisis-themed' specials.

I don't see a model like the one you're describing working out very well for anybody - I mean, you really want your superheores to age in real-time and then have them invent new, (potentially sucky) super heroes to replace them when they are too old? On the other hand, it sort of works for Doctor Who I guess.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Personally, I'm fine with re-using the same characters forever-and-ever amen, just as long as they used within stories that end. (Elseworlds and One-Shots like 'Birthright', for instance). Even an ongoing complex continuity that lasts for a decade or two is fine, I just don't want them to try and retain previous continuities by crazy 'crisis-themed' specials.

I don't see a model like the one you're describing working out very well for anybody - I mean, you really want your superheores to age in real-time and then have them invent new, (potentially sucky) super heroes to replace them when they are too old? On the other hand, it sort of works for Doctor Who I guess.

I'm more in support of seeing sidekicks or some other person take over the mantle. It works for plenty of other superheroes and Dick Grayson proved that it could work for a major one.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

As far as I know Batman Inc. was supposed to be the last of the five part Batman saga Morrison wanted to do. Morrison is one of the few reasons (for me) to read comics, so it would be a stupid bitch move if they didn't let him finish his story.

I never really was into main continuity superhero stories, in fact it was a particular one that got me out of comics way back. I only gave Batman a chance because Morrison wrote it, and while they aren't really the same kind of Holy Shit as his own stuff, they are still enjoyable on 9 out of 10 levels.

Of course, I actually have no idea which of Morrison's Batman books actually belong to the five-parter that keeps getting mentioned, I only know R.I.P. and Batman & Robin, (which happen to be the two I read/started) belong to it, to be honest, because he wrote so fucking much.

[Fifthfiend]

I mean, you really want your superheores to age in real-time and then have them invent new, (potentially sucky) super heroes to replace them when they are too old?

Are you talking shit about Spider-Girl because I will literally reach through the internet and slap you

[Nique]

If Spider-Girl is basically the same thing as Batman Beyond then... No. Becuase have you read the new Batman Beyond? It's pretty good.

[Fifthfiend]

She's like Batman Beyond minus all the things that were lame about Batman Beyond

...and also minus the scifi-style future which admittedly was cool.

[MuMu]

On a second thought, I'm willing to give some of this a chance if it means bringing the Superbuddies back. At least Ted Kord.

[Archbio]

I mean, you really want your superheores to age in real-time and then have them invent new, (potentially sucky) super heroes to replace them when they are too old?

Better to try out a few new sucky characters than trying out a few sucky character phases and a few new sucky characters who can't stick around even if they hadn't been sucky anyway because the focus is on worn out icons.

[Fifthfiend]

It's not like both major companies haven't introduced loads of compelling and commercially viable new characters they just inevitably get fucked over either because the established names crowd out the market OR because some manchild asshole decides that the only REAL flash is the one that died when he was ten.

[Osterbaum]

The (American) Superhero comic book industry seems like the model of an entertainment industry catering to the peoples fears of everything that is different and new.

[Dracorion]

Wasn't Morrison the one that brought back Barry Allen?

[Magus]

I actually have a really hard time understanding why the regular series of comics are popular. The reason I liked Batman Inc. is it didn't seem to take anything particularly seriously and yet maintained a certain level of menace...insofar as Lord Death Man driving his stolen sportscar through a family's dining room and machine gunning them all to death was menacing.

And Batman Beyond actually allows them to be fairly creative since they aren't constrained by any of the 900 some issues of Batman history, only the TV series (which was mostly one-off episodes, so they can do pretty much anything they want).

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Here's all of the solicitations for the relaunched titles. (http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/joshw24/news/?a=39219)

I'm really confused. Some titles appear to be going on like nothing ever happened while others appear to be starting over from scratch. Some of these titles tend to share characters so starting over one and keeping another the same creates a shitload of continuity problems that are going to be a fucking nightmare to sift through.

I'll probably only bother to check out the Superman and Batman titles along with the Justice League ones (John Constantine is in one! but that's a continuity fuck-up too), Aquaman, Flash, and All-Star Western.

[Kurosen]

http://www.bleedingcool.com/2011/05/31/flashpast-brian-clevinger-dropped-from-firestorm-before-you-even-knew-he-was-on-it/

ha ha ha ha what

split off from the general "fuck DC" thread because seriously lolwut
Yeah, it sucks.

Basically, I was given Firestorm on a silver platter. But then it went from "Brian's Firestorm Project That'll Spin Out Of Blackest Night / Brightest Day" to "TOTAL DCU REBOOOOOOOOOOT"

So, everything I'd done was instantly obsolete. It's a shame. What I had cooked up was pretty goddamn swank. But, eh, that's the biz.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Yeah, it sucks.

Basically, I was given Firestorm on a silver platter. But then it went from "Brian's Firestorm Project That'll Spin Out Of Blackest Night / Brightest Day" to "TOTAL DCU REBOOOOOOOOOOT"

So, everything I'd done was instantly obsolete. It's a shame. What I had cooked up was pretty goddamn swank. But, eh, that's the biz.

I'm curious, what do you think about the reboot as a professional writer? Do you think it's a legitimate chance at reinvigorating the DCU or is it pretty much just a stunt?

[Dracorion]

Looks like Jaime is still the Blue Beetle.

This doesn't necessarily mean Ted Kord is still dead, but I'm leaning toward that.

And I don't see Booster Gold there, except in Justice League International.

[POS Industries]

Okay, can someone explain to me what the fuck Tim Drake is wearing?

We'll get to Connor Kent in a minute here but seriously what the fuck is Tim wearing?!

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Okay, can someone explain to me what the fuck Tim Drake is wearing?

We'll get to Connor Kent in a minute here but seriously what the fuck is Tim wearing?!

He's wearing The Falcon's costume. He is wearing a Marvel character's costume.

[Bells]

what the hell...

don't worry Brian, it's their loss. Even if you don't have a massive library of titles to your name (yet) we all know you already proven that you can hold a storyline together way better than those clowns at DC have been able to do for the last couple of years.

Also, i hope someone over there notices you soon enough to bring you to work on Batman Inc. I would certainly love to see your vision of a "Batman-like" hero in action.

[POS Industries]

He's wearing The Falcon's costume. He is wearing a Marvel character's costume.
I liked him better in Doctor Mid-Nite's costume. At least then he was ripping off a character in his own universe.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Damn man that sucks but hey, you got in the door of another major company. That alone is an accomplishment itself.

[Krylo]

I'm curious, what do you think about the reboot as a professional writer? Do you think it's a legitimate chance at reinvigorating the DCU or is it pretty much just a stunt?

Pretty sure it would be unwise of Brian to say if he thought it was a terrible idea on a public forum, considering DC is still a potential employer in the future.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Pretty sure it would be unwise of Brian to say if he thought it was a terrible idea on a public forum, considering DC is still a potential employer in the future.

Good point.

[Fifthfiend]

Okay, can someone explain to me what the fuck Tim Drake is wearing?

It's like the worst parts of the nineties puked up all over him.

We'll get to Connor Kent in a minute here but seriously what the fuck is Tim wearing?!

My biggest regret is that I started cracking "Jersey Shoreboy" jokes six months/a year ago because they'd all be so much better now.

[Kurosen]

I'm curious, what do you think about the reboot as a professional writer? Do you think it's a legitimate chance at reinvigorating the DCU or is it pretty much just a stunt?
Well, as a writer I don't like it because most of my DC pitches work only if there is no reboot. I don't know enough about the reboot to properly wrap my head around these characters or their world anymore.

As a fan I've never liked big reboots. I'm happy to ignore yesterday's continuity for the sake of today's content. You guys saw this all over 8BT.

My hope is that it works out. More readers is good for the industry.

Pretty sure it would be unwise of Brian to say if he thought it was a terrible idea on a public forum, considering DC is still a potential employer in the future.
Ha, I don't know. I've sent about 20+ pitches in the wake of the Firestorm Fiasco. By and large, the comics I want to write and the characters I want to read about don't fall in line with DC or Marvel's modern philosophies. It may be that sending these pitches is merely proving to DC to an absurd degree of accuracy that I'm not built to their specifications ;D

[Aerozord]

don't fall in line with DC or Marvel's modern philosophies.

what exactly are these philsophies? Nearest I can tell their tactic is to hype up a major change, but really just use it as a way to reboot so they can redo the old stuff.

[Kurosen]

The emphasis on the "importance" of events, their tie-ins, and spin-offs.

I tend to gravitate toward stories like, "What if Gravity and Darkhawk were roommates?"

[Token]

"What if Gravity and Darkhawk were roommates?"

There is now nothing in the world I want to see more than Guy Gardner and Booster moving in with the Waynes.

[Magus]

I kind of wish their strategy with this rebooit had been to consolidate their comic book titles. Why is there a Justice League and a Justice League International (especially when Batman is in both for some reason probably related to Batman Inc. or something)? Why is there a Batman and a Batman and Robin? The only reason is to have comics that conclude with an exhortation to go buy the other comics in that particular "family" (I absolutely hated reading Batman and then having it end with "see the conclusion next month in Detective Comics") in order to sell more comics. It's pretty annoying to have to buy multiple series to see the whole story, which is why I probably won't be buying the "main" comics but will instead continue with the "offshoots" (Batman Inc., Batman: The Dark Knight, Batman Beyond, etc.).

[Archbio]

Don't forget "Justice League Dark."

They kind of wanted to recreate the nineties... but they didn't want to put too much thought into that.

[Amake]

I'll go with Brian Michael Bendis: There should be no need for "events" because every single book should be an event. Like if you do make a comic about Gravity and Darkhawk (whoever they are) being roommates, I'm sure you'd like to make reading that book an eventful, maybe life-changing experience.

Query: How many titles published by DC over the last year does DC implicitly say you don't need to read, compared to the big event books you presumably need to read because they're super important and cool?

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I kind of wish their strategy with this rebooit had been to consolidate their comic book titles. Why is there a Justice League and a Justice League International (especially when Batman is in both for some reason probably related to Batman Inc. or something)? Why is there a Batman and a Batman and Robin? The only reason is to have comics that conclude with an exhortation to go buy the other comics in that particular "family" (I absolutely hated reading Batman and then having it end with "see the conclusion next month in Detective Comics") in order to sell more comics. It's pretty annoying to have to buy multiple series to see the whole story, which is why I probably won't be buying the "main" comics but will instead continue with the "offshoots" (Batman Inc., Batman: The Dark Knight, Batman Beyond, etc.).

The above is why I try and stick to trades. I'd rather wait a couple months to get the whole story than have to go treasure hunting at my local comic shop. The only series that I would bother to seek out individual issues for is Atomic Robo but the shop doesn't carry it.

Chances are that I will start buying more single issues when the reboot/revamp hits (mostly out of curiosity and, yes, cause it's a jumping on point for several series) because of my newfound ability to actually drive out to the shop myself. So I guess DC wins this round.

I'll probably keep buying trades until then.

[Magus]

I hate "events" because it seems to me an excuse to make me buy 20 comic books I normally don't read just to get the "whole" story. I should be getting the whole story in the series I'm reading, I shouldn't have to go buy ever Batman book to understand what is going on.

[Jagos]

The emphasis on the "importance" of events, their tie-ins, and spin-offs.

I tend to gravitate toward stories like, "What if Gravity and Darkhawk were roommates?"

That sounds like something Kevin Smith would do. XD

[Magus]

I like how the most exciting comics news I've heard is that Marvel is relaunching The Punisher and its being written by Greg Rucka of Gotham Central fame.

I mean, in the realm of "getting excited about new projects from favorite writers", if DC is going to hire Brian Azzarello...why not have him write a Batman comic? Why is he writing Wonder Woman?

And why is Brian Clevinger not being given his "what if this character and that character were roommates" comic book series?

[Fifthfiend]

Don't forget "Justice League Dark."

They kind of wanted to recreate the nineties... but they didn't want to put too much thought into that.

Justice League Dark would actually probably seem kind of interesting to me, if they weren't calling it Justice League Dark.

...and if Geoff Johns hadn't just done the worst, dumbest change to Swamp Thing that it was possible to make to Swamp Thing.

[Archbio]

Geoff Johns just has this weird thing with Alan Moore.

[Archbio]

That sounds like something Kevin Smith would do.

Lets not say things we can't take back.

[Premmy]

I liked him better in Doctor Mid-Nite's costume. At least then he was ripping off a character in his own universe.

I actually liked Red Robin's Costume Design a lot, particularly when he lost the tunic and went to just a straight tights outfit. The Chest-Shield/Utility Belt/Cape attachment/brooch bit was very cool.

I really don't get why DC and Marvel Aren't just producing one-shots featuring their characters anymore. You know, just bring in writers to do up original self-contained Spider-man/Batman/Superman stories that anybody could pick up and read. Kinda like movies or TV shows or video games don't have shit t do with continuity(outside their own series) in comics.,..... Oh wait, Jack-ass nerds, that's why

[Bells]

Just to add salt to the conversation

Ongoing series starring Batman from New Earth

Detective Comics #27-current (May 1939 – present) plus 12 Annuals
Batman (Spring 1940 – present) plus 26 Annuals
Superman/Batman (August 2003 – present) plus 5 Annuals
Batman and Robin (June 2009 – present)
Batman: The Dark Knight (December 2010 – present)
Batman, Inc. (November 2010 – present)

Can anyone tell me why do we actually need So many Titles starring batman? They all happen in the same World/Time Line and any big events to goes off in one has to reflect in all the others... so why the hell do i need all these Batman comics if they are all the same?

I know the "business" answer, to have more books on the shelf at the same time with varying prices, fragmented. Instead of one big book, with different writers and Artists and multiple smaller story arcs so DC can "dynamically" change what is needed and give focus to what works best (sells more) without harming the overall brand... But even that is kinda stupid... somehow.

Now these "huge" events are pretty much a Anual thing, and are turning into an Anal thing. Maybe the current model of Comic Book writing and delivery simply doesn't work anymore...

[Fifthfiend]

Geoff Johns just has this weird thing with Alan Moore.

In unfairness to Johns, he's done lots of shitty retcons of the work of other, better writers who weren't Alan Moore, as well.

Shitting on the work of Marv Wolfman or Mark Waid or Peter David just doesn't get people's attention like it does when you shit on Moore.

[Magus]

As usual, Hitler makes some very important points about this whole DC reboot thing (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UpUh_Yl49l4).

[Aerozord]

as you said business answer is obvious, but there is another reason, for the most part the people running these companies are comic nerds themselves and the fact they are comic nerds means they are ok with overly convoluted continuity. Alot of the people deciding what gets green lit, want this stuff to happen

[POS Industries]

Can anyone tell me why do we actually need So many Titles starring batman? They all happen in the same World/Time Line and any big events to goes off in one has to reflect in all the others... so why the hell do i need all these Batman comics if they are all the same?
I think the idea was that, with Dick Grayson having taken over as Batman while Bruce as "dead" and DC's plan to originally have him stay in the role, "Batman" and "Batman and Robin" were going to be Dickbat books while "Batman: The Dark Knight" and "Batman, Inc." where going to be Brucebat books, and Batwoman had actually taken over as the main character for "Detective Comics." Meanwhile, "Superman/Batman" was mostly just a vehicle for random fun stories that weren't intended to fit into the overall story arcs of the greater DCU.

Of course, with Dick going back to being Nightwing and Bruce I guess taking over all the books (all of them), it's just plain ridiculous.

Also, I'm gonna go ahead and merge this thread with the "Fuck DC" thread because, well, fuck DC.

[Magus]

Well ostensibly at least some of the Batman characters are interesting enough to have their own spin-off series, like Catwoman or Batwoman...it's not that there are 12 (though one could argue the necessity of a Red Hood comic or a separate Batman and Robin comic), it's that they make the plots crossover that is annoying to me. If somebody's really that big a fan of Nightwing (why I dunno, but anyway) they can get the Nightwing comic, I just don't feel if I'm reading Batman I should have to also buy Nightwing, Batwoman, Red Hood, Batman and Robin, etc. to get the full story. Everything should be partitioned 95% of the time. Instead every other month they were doing "crossovers" between those series, starting with Hush then moving into Batman RIP, etc.

One could argue why they think all the side Batman characters are interesting enough to pull their own series, but apparently they sell enough to make them worthwhile. It's just this crossover stuff that should stop. If they want Nightwing to be in this month's Batman, that's fine, but I shouldn't have to also know what's been going on in Nightwing comics for the past year to know what's going on.

EDIT: I'm kind of on the fence about Detective Comics, since from what I could tell the Batwoman/Question mash-up issues kind of helped them develop Batwoman at least into an interesting modern version of the character to the point where they can sell enough copies of a separate Batwoman comic to make it worthwhile. Basically, if they use Detective Comics for introducing and experimenting with new characters to the Batman universe, that would be dandy. If it's just another Batman story every month though it's pretty pointless (especially since they are keeping Batman: The Dark Knight, for some reason).

[Jagos]

Lets not say things we can't take back.

Hey, that guy is awesome!

I still think Clerks 2 was pretty damn funny. If you ever look at his stand up, the guy can really talk for hours and make it entertaining.

OT: I'm beginning to wonder if this:
as you said business answer is obvious, but there is another reason, for the most part the people running these companies are comic nerds themselves and the fact they are comic nerds means they are ok with overly convoluted continuity. Alot of the people deciding what gets green lit, want this stuff to happen

Is a necessary process... Why not just someone make a new damn character that's similar and tell a story?

[Fifthfiend]

Also, I'm gonna go ahead and merge this thread with the "Fuck DC" thread because, well, fuck DC.

But it was such a great application of the Warbot thread tag.

[POS Industries]

But it was such a great application of the Warbot thread tag.
It was.

Also, because of the time warp happening during this thread, I can't seem to change the tag or title.

[Fifthfiend]

http://nuklearforums.com/images/icons/warbot.gif

[Archbio]

I don't think it's fair to lay the reboot mania at the feet of too big (or too little) a concern for continuity. It's more a form of sacred stasis.

---

Hey, that guy is awesome!

I still think Clerks 2 was pretty damn funny. If you ever look at his stand up, the guy can really talk for hours and make it entertaining.

Well, parlaying an inability to think of a fight that could happen at the North Pole in a Superman movie into a paying audience does somewhat inspire awe.

[stefan]

...and if Geoff Johns hadn't just done the worst, dumbest change to Swamp Thing that it was possible to make to Swamp Thing.

I haven't read much of swamp thing aside from Moore's work. how did Johns fuck up this time?

[Fifthfiend]

I haven't read much of swamp thing aside from Moore's work. how did Johns fuck up this time?

http://scans-daily.dreamwidth.org/2938965.html

The all-new Swamp Thing is... ALEC HOLLAND

[Amake]

I remember Moore's Swamp Thing meeting Alec in Heaven. He was very happy there. But White Lanterns I guess can drag anyone back to life just cause they want to?

It'd be exciting if this new Swamp Thing decided to get himself killed as soon as possible.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I remember Moore's Swamp Thing meeting Alec in Heaven. He was very happy there. But White Lanterns I guess can drag anyone back to life just cause they want to?

It'd be exciting if this new Swamp Thing decided to get himself killed as soon as possible.

I can picture it now, "Geoff Johns presents 'The Endless Suicides of Swamp Thing!' "

[Fifthfiend]

"Be in heaven which I know for a certainty exists

OR

be a grody plant guy,

HMMMMM"

[POS Industries]

White Lanterns: Fucking dicks.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

White Lanterns: Fucking dicks.

The white man is always keepin' someone down.

[Kim]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/338353490.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1309844299&Signature=2CjBQ4J%2Br69XP2G%2BYZ73j7gKi8U%3D

[Loyal]

What... what did I just look at?

[Krylo]

A Subway ad.

Also: Green Lantern helping a basketball player cheat on his slamdunk.

[Archbio]

Prostitution.

[Premmy]

Green lantern and Super man saved Whoever Blake Griffin is and that Nascar guy from some kind of scheme involving Gorilla Grodd whilst Blake Griffin and said nascar guy were enjoying Subway sandwiches on their way to a basketball contest/exhibition.

[Archbio]

Gorilla Grodd's plan involved a Transformer winning a basketball race? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0O5OPlDXGg&t=0m21s)

[The SSB Intern]

Is Hal capable of a face that doesn't scream "deranged intergalactic rapist"?

[Marc v4.0]

good god, giant Chin Mcsmugface GL there.

[Aerozord]

Is Hal capable of a face that doesn't scream "deranged intergalactic rapist"?

He's a very bad liar

[Magus]

Former Oklahoma Sooners basketball star and the 2010-11 NBA Rookie of the Year Blake Griffin appeared in a strange place this week – the middle of a DC Comic Book.

As part of his endorsement deal with Subway, Blake Griffin appeared in the pages of the latest DC Comics, including “The Search for Swamp Thing,” as he teamed with NASCAR driver Carl Edwards to help the Justice League of America (Superman, Green Lantern, Wonder Woman and Aquaman) battle the evil gorilla Grodd.

Blake Griffin and Carl Edwards show up in time to see the Justice League failing to stop Grodd and his gorilla army. Luckily, the two save some innocent people and then face off with Grodd. Since Blake Griffin just ate Subway, he was not tired and used his skills with the basketball to peg Grodd in the bead with the ball and stop the mind control over the other gorillas.

After the battle, The Green Lantern made sure to get Blake Griffin to the Skill’s Competition where Griffin used the power of the Green Lantern's ring to win the Slam Dunk Competition.

If you think it sounds silly, you would be right but, at the same time, it is enough to make a Blake Griffin fan smile.

Continue reading on Examiner.com Blake Griffin joins forces with The Green Lantern in the pages of DC Comics - Oklahoma City Oklahoma Sooners | Examiner.com http://www.examiner.com/oklahoma-sooners-in-oklahoma-city/blake-griffin-joins-forces-with-the-green-lantern-the-pages-of-dc-comics#ixzz1RCxucyI0

Canonical? Subway gives you the power to "not be tired"?

[Premmy]

Gorilla Grodd's plan involved a Transformer winning a basketball race? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B0O5OPlDXGg&t=0m21s)
Yeah, Using the combined skills of Blake What-his-face and Nascar guy, he would change the body of Optimus Primal to go from gorilla to race-car and enter him in a basketball race and win.... somehow...

[Marc v4.0]

Canonical? Subway gives you the power to "not be tired"?

Yes, actually. Subway has little to no itis effect.

[Premmy]

Then they released their new "Soul way" line

[Loyal]

Is Hal capable of a face that doesn't scream "deranged intergalactic rapist"?

If that panel two face isn't a face in need a good punching I don't know what is.

[Viridis]

So I'm the only one who can't see the image, then?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/full/338353490.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAJF3XCCKACR3QDMOA&Expires=1309844299&Signature=2CjBQ4J%2Br69XP2G%2BYZ73j7gKi8U%3D

Can't see the picture.

[Marc v4.0]

Just imagine disgust and shame

[Token]

...Subway? http://i55.tinypic.com/2z8dssy.jpg

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I had a lot to do while I was banned for the day so I finally read through all of Gotham Central. Holy shit, that last issue hit me like a bullet right in the back. I did not see any of that coming. Ed Brubaker is a miserable sonuvabitch for doing that to his readers.

[Bard The 5th LW]

...Subway? http://i55.tinypic.com/2z8dssy.jpg

I'm sorry, I think my eyes just stabbed themselves. What context was that image supposed to be in regarding the comics?

[MFD]

Well, Brian, I guess being replaced by Gail Simone isn't the worst thing in the world.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Well, Brian, I guess being replaced by Gail Simone isn't the worst thing in the world.

But not having her write Birds of Prey and some guy named Duane Swierczynski doing it just might be.

[Magus]

I had a lot to do while I was banned for the day so I finally read through all of Gotham Central. Holy shit, that last issue hit me like a bullet right in the back. I did not see any of that coming. Ed Brubaker is a miserable sonuvabitch for doing that to his readers.

Actually it was the best ending ever, which was later ruined by bringing some of those characters back in later Batman series and having whatshisname's kid shoot Corrigan to death. As for Montoya, she became a private detective and then The Question which was kind of stupid, as well. Not a bad idea I guess if you just have to keep using old characters instead of letting their dramatic exits remain dramatic exits.

EDIT: Brubaker is writing the new Punisher series. I'm getting it just based on that mere fact.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Actually it was the best ending ever...

And that's what kills me! It was amazing!

... which was later ruined by bringing some of those characters back in later Batman series and having whatshisname's kid shoot Corrigan to death.

What book was that in? Because I'm very interested in reading that.

As for Montoya, she became a private detective and then The Question which was kind of stupid, as well. Not a bad idea I guess if you just have to keep using old characters instead of letting their dramatic exits remain dramatic exits.

I always wondered what the hell happened to Montoya because one day she's a drunk and the next I'm reading a Batwoman book (at least I think it was Batwoman but I'm not sure) and she shows up as The Question. Was this something that happened during 52? Cause I've been looking for a reason to read that.

But once again, holy shit! I did not read a single issue throughout the entire forty issue series that I didn't like. I pray to god that the Batman television show they're supposedly planning after TDKR is Gotham Central.

[Magus]

There was basically a plan to just go ahead and do a Gotham Central show back when it was originally coming out and both the creators and TV execs were on board with it and it looked like it was totally going to happen. BUT Batman Begins coming out put a nix on it because Warner Brothers/DC didn't want to have a TV series on at the same time as this current Bat trilogy was playing itself out. This is also the reason The Graysons was given the axe (other than it being a really dumb idea, of course, but that hasn't stopped them before), they don't want to have a live-action Batman TV show at the same time these movies are coming out.

As for "bad issues", the only bad one was the rather forced one that played into Infinite Crisis and had nothing to do with the overall storyline at all in any way shape or form. Also it kind of jumped from "police like Batman" to "police don't like Batman" from one issue to the next because War Drums came out in that interim as well. Those are the only two times I felt the narrative suffered and it is still easily one of the best if not the best comic series of all time.

As for where those things with Montoya and whasthisname's son happened you will have to look on Wikipedia as that is where I read about the happenings. I did not read those actual comics because again I thought it was really dumb to bring those characters back in that manner.

[POS Industries]

Oh hey, looks like Wonder Woman lost her pants again. (http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/2011/07/13/dc-comics-%E2%80%93-the-new-52-1-available-at-san-diego-comic-con-and-comic-book-shops-worldwide-on-072011/)

Also, the new main character of the flagship Green Lantern series is... Sinestro, apparently. I can't say I'm not okay with that.

[Fifthfiend]

It's fantastic that someone looked at that costume and decided that pants-having were what needed to be changed about it, it is like, everything about the clowncar merry-go-round that DC Comics clearly must be.

...Everyone finally agreeing to shrug and say bygones over Sinestro being a galactic-scale mass murderer is also pretty good.

[Fifthfiend]

The great thing is that Johns apparently doesn't even remember any more that when he decided to call takebacks on Hal killing the entire universe, he did it by blaming the entire thing on, you know, Sinestro, so Sinny's on the hook for all of that too.

But I dunno, maybe Superboy punched all of that out of causality? Who can even tell anymore.

[POS Industries]

Well, I just read the latest issue explaining all this and basically everything went batshit because of a rogue Guardian doing some technicolor evil, Sinestro showed enough will while jumping in to help Hal that a ring from one of the dead Green Lanterns chose him, and then Hal did a big green willpower Kamehameha and killed the rogue Guardian and saved everyone, most notably including all the other Guardians.

And since he showed he was strong enough to kill one Guardian, the other Guardians (except Ganthet, as always) immediately decided to keep their streak of being complete awful dickholes running uninterrupted and kicked him out of the corps, and I guess they're having Sinestro take his place, which has pretty much everyone in the fucking universe cheesed off.

TL;DR Sinestro being a mass murdering fascist hasn't been forgotten, it's just that the Guardians are terrible, ungrateful bastards.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Also, the new main character of the flagship Green Lantern series is... Sinestro, apparently. I can't say I'm not okay with that.

Well, I won't be picking up that book now. I like Sinestro as a villain but I'm just not interested in a book with him in the lead.

[Magus]

I like how this reboot quickly turned into "not actually a reboot at all with most of our franchises" and then "not actually a reboot at all with any of our franchises".

[POS Industries]

Well, I won't be picking up that book now. I like Sinestro as a villain but I'm just not interested in a book with him in the lead.
Conversely, this has joined Suicide Squad as one of the two books I'm even interested in picking up.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Conversely, this has joined Suicide Squad as one of the two books I'm even interested in picking up.

I'll probably be picking up either Suicide Squad or Red Hood and the Outlaws but I'm not sure which one to get. They both seem to have similar concepts at play: a Batman villain is involved with some other neerdowells on a mission. I might just have to get both and see which one is stronger.

Edit: Y'know what? I won't be picking up Suicide Squad because I can't believe we got a Suicide Squad book instead of Secret Six.

[Fifthfiend]

Well, I just read the latest issue explaining all this and basically everything went batshit because of a rogue Guardian doing some technicolor evil, Sinestro showed enough will while jumping in to help Hal that a ring from one of the dead Green Lanterns chose him, and then Hal did a big green willpower Kamehameha and killed the rogue Guardian and saved everyone, most notably including all the other Guardians.

And since he showed he was strong enough to kill one Guardian, the other Guardians (except Ganthet, as always) immediately decided to keep their streak of being complete awful dickholes running uninterrupted and kicked him out of the corps, and I guess they're having Sinestro take his place, which has pretty much everyone in the fucking universe cheesed off.

TL;DR Sinestro being a mass murdering fascist hasn't been forgotten, it's just that the Guardians are terrible, ungrateful bastards.

Here's the thing I'm getting at, is back when Geoff Johns did his whole big crazy Let's Give Hal A Do-Over On That Destroying The Whole Universe Thing, they did that by pinning the whole thing on A. Parallax and B. Sinestro. Like the whole thing where Paralaxx posesses Hal and Hal goes crazy and then kills all the guardians of the galaxy and then the universe was Sinestro's crazy-ass idea.

So they are pushing aside a guy who killed one guardian in favor of a guy who killed all of them.

Like I guess maybe Johns at some point retconned his retcon because I mean it's not like I'm going to start reading Green Lantern comics to find out but I'm just saying if not that's fairly ridiculous, I mean like even for a Green and Blue and Red and White Rangers Comic by Geoff Johns that is fairly ridiculous.

[Fifthfiend]

I mean like the guardians have always been ridiculous assholes but "we will throw a party for the guy who literally murdered us all in order to spite Hal Jordan for saving all of our lives" is just this entire new universe of the guardians being ridiculous assholes.

I mean I don't even like Hal Jordan but come on.

[POS Industries]

So they are pushing aside a guy who killed one guardian in favor of a guy who killed all of them.
Actually, it's even more stupid since they're pushing aside a guy who killed a guy who the other guardians said wasn't really a guardian until after Hal killed him, at which point they decided that the guy might as well have been for no raisin because they all started shitting their pants about the possibility that Hal could kill them all (and has), whereas for the moment Sinestro's just sitting there looking at his new green ring going "WHAT IS THIS I DON'T EVEN."

Also? John Stewart just fucking killed Mogo. MOGO. And they don't even give a rat's ass.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it's insanely retarded considering Hal would never do such a thing under his own power and, if he could, Sinestro wouldn't hesitate to murder the fuck out of the lot of them. But this is still pretty much tied for "Worst Idiotic Thing the Guardians Have Ever Done" with every other idiotic thing the guardians have ever done, which is probably why we're also getting new guardians (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Lantern:_New_Guardians) that hopefully won't suck balls at their job.

In the meantime, I get a book starring Sinestro for probably all of one month before Hal gets his stupid ring back, so whatever.

[Viridis]

What? I liked Mogo. Okay, I don't read the comics but I liked the idea of Mogo.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I mean like the guardians have always been ridiculous assholes...

I thought it was sad that that was one of the few things that the movie got right but even then it felt fucking ridiculous. The Guardians are shitty at their jobs and always have been. Let's hope Hal and everyone decides to murder the fuck out of them cause it sure would make the universe a better place.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Also? John Stewart just fucking killed Mogo. MOGO. And they don't even give a rat's ass.

The same Mogo that dragged millions of Black Lantern zombies to his molten core by selectively altering his gravitational field and leaving them to burn for millenia? Yeah, John be hacking.