Thundercats 2011: Actually pretty damn good

[BitVyper]

So hour long special aired last night, and so far it's looking a lot better than it had any right to be. Anyone expecting something like the He-Man remake, where the various plot elements are essentially the same, is going to be disappointed. Actually, I think it's less a remake and more a distant future continuation. Okay yeah, the characters are the same, but shit, how many Links have there been who rescued a Zelda? Anyway, that at least seems to be what they're hinting at, but will probably never state. But yeah, don't go in expecting something made just "for fans of the original," 'cause it ain't. The premise, however, remains pretty similar. The opening episodes end with the Thundercats exiled from their home by their enemies. I kiiinda liked how in the original series they were really just trying to make a new life for themselves, but questing after The Book of Omens works too.

The writing is pretty good so far, with no blatant flaws or cringe-worthy bits. Plot and themes being handled are mature enough to appeal to those of us old enough to have watched the classic TCats. The animation is very watchable. We've all seen the character design, so I'll just say that everyone looks pretty good in motion. For once, cartoon characters are actually attacking other living things with sharp objects, so that's nice. In fact Liono's dad got straight up stabbed in the back. Not that there's any blood.

As far as characters go:

Liono: Much stronger character than he was in the old series. Also displays a surprising number of princess tropes. Think Ariel + Jasmine. They've managed to write him as being that sort of character without being too hamfisted about his fascination with ancient technology and his concern for life, or any of the traits we see him display. As a result, he comes off as a pretty complex character, and I found myself really feeling for him at bits.

Cheetara: I said in an earlier thread that Cheetara is the character I'm the most nervous about them ruining. Based on the first two episodes, I think they are doing OKAY with her so far, but I'm still feeling a bit cautious. She wasn't in these episodes a whole lot, but from what we've seen, she does seem like someone who could potentially grow into the old Cheetara. She's definitely NOT the old Cheetara though.

Tygra: Tygra is an ass, but I kind of like it. There's some hints of the old Tygra in him, mainly his being Lancer to Liono, but he's his own character. As long as they don't go too overboard with his being the ass who probably gets ALL THE LADIES, I think he'll be good. Tygra and Cheetara both seem like younger versions of their old selves.

Panthro: SIR NOT APPEARING IN THESE EPISODES

Wilykat and kit: Street urchin thieves with big dreams and possibly some special powers. Wilykat seems to be a bit older. I found their antics pretty enjoyable.

Snarf: I dislike his redesign, and I'm not really sure how I feel about his "voice." That said, while he can't talk in this iteration, his basic character seems to have been preserved.

Mummra: Pretty much exactly the same guy, except his weakness seems to be direct sunlight now, instead of his own reflection. Which was probably a good choice, as the reflection thing would have been pretty restrictive in a series that doesn't have 80s Cartoon Dumb working for it.

Overall, the whole thing felt a lot more on the quality level of an animated movie meant for theatrical release to me. It was very good, and way way better than I was expecting.

[Locke cole]

Aw, dammit. I completely forgot about the primeire last night. I don't suppose it's anywhere on Youtube yet? Or perhaps CN is doing a rerun tonight?

[BitVyper]

No idea. On an unrelated note, I PMed you some suggestions about your FILM STUDY.

[Locke cole]

Ah, thank you. I will have to review that in a few days. My usual computer is in for repairs, so I am internetting from a Nintendo Wii.

[Aerozord]

I find it hilarious that the character design people were most worried about is a character that is apparently dead.

Not sure yet how I feel about it, need a few more episodes. But the plot makes alot more sense and they even justified the fantasy and sci-fi elements. So even if over all series is equal to the original that would be enough to put it over the top. Lets be honest, wasn't really a plot in the original

[Bard The 5th LW]

I appreciated the scenes where Lion-o defended the Lizard people. That and a few other scenes make me think this series is worth watching for a few more episodes.

[Aerozord]

oh yea that was the other thing I liked. Before the bad guys were basicly just in it for the evulz, this one it seems they have some legitimate grievances, I mean the main bad guys are rather irredeemable, but the average soldier is not

[BitVyper]

Shit, I just realised that the thing Liono tosses to Cheetara out of that junk pile is a Robear berbil's hand.

[Bells]

just a fun coincidence that i thought i should share, but now you can pre-order Liono's ral sized gauntlet

http://www.bigbadtoystore.com/bbts/product.aspx?product=BANA10089&mode=retail

Seems like the first wave of toys is upon us

[Tev]

I was very pleased with the series opener. The few easter eggs and cameos I noticed (Robear arm, the old blind guy in the tower, etc.), as well as some familiar voices (Liono's dad is voiced by the guy who did the original Liono), kept me rather entertained. I was rather pleased with how they cleaned up the storyline and my favorite part was that they didn't give Snaf a voice.

Also, my bets on Panthro are that he is not dead, but escaped into the wilds when he was betrayed by the saber-tooth general guy and is working on some found technology to create a tank-like device that he can use to help re-take cat country and save his people.

[BitVyper]

There is no way Panthro is actually dead. Although it'd be hilarious if yep, he was, and they just went through the entire series without ever mentioning him again, thereby making everyone go on expecting his return.

I really liked that Claudus, when offered The Choice, was just like "uh yeah, no," and didn't bother with being tormented or anything.

[Magus]

That's cause he thought he had a super magic hyper sword that keeps you from getting stabbed in the back. But he was wrong! So very, very wrong.

By the way, if the clerics are so powerful and pretty difficult to beat...why did they wait until three-fourths of the city was destroyed to start blowing up those mechs? Ah, cartoon logic.

Also the use of technology as a super powerful "secret weapon" made sense right up until they introduced the clerics who use magic, I believe, which appears to be more than a match for the tech. So why is there so little magic in the Thundercats city? Just because they don't know how machines work, their ease of defeat doesn't seem to hold up to the fact that they have super powerful magic at hand.

[Aerozord]

I think both can be explained with one line "prepare your clerics", speculation but it might be magic that takes alot of prep work before you can use it at full power.

Plus while effective, they did still lose and it was implied they were killed off. Probably only certain people that can become clerics as well and requires alot of training. Remember when guns were first invented they were inferior to bows, but ability to hand it to a random soldier then with only a few weeks of training was a huge advantage.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I know I'm in the minority, but on it's own merit, I didn't think much of it. It spent the whole time setting things up for the series, but for me there really isn't much interest in rewatching it. It took it's time getting to the epic battle, but nothing feels resolved afterwards. No real direction, other than to find a book that's somewhere on the planet.

Mind you, my ideal opener is something like what Young Justice or Transformers Animated did. Give us a real story, but include elements to expand on.

They certainly can expand, the writing is good & everything looks pretty. I just didn't see anything in the opener that I want to watch more than once. Not that I think it was horrible, I certainly will check out the first episode, but if the series continues devoid of any story, I don't think I will keep watching.

SWB

[Aerozord]

SWB that is fully valid, but its an odd complaint when the original didn't really have a story either. I personally never had any idea what they were trying to accomplish in the original. Not like half a dozen people can revive an entire civilization. Bad guys won before the series even started, nor did I get why the bad guys bothered with them. They blew up a planet, not like they were worth the effort

[Sky Warrior Bob]

SWB that is fully valid, but its an odd complaint when the original didn't really have a story either. I personally never had any idea what they were trying to accomplish in the original. Not like half a dozen people can revive an entire civilization. Bad guys won before the series even started, nor did I get why the bad guys bothered with them. They blew up a planet, not like they were worth the effort

Didn't care much for the original series, only checked out the episodes occasionally on early Sunday mornings. But I didn't think the original was a prerequisite.

Look, I don't have a hate fest for the opener or anything, I just haven't seen enough story to sink my teeth into. At worst, it feels like a epic two part episode that spent too much time with the set up. I know it's a good set up, but alone, it doesn't grab my attention.

[Fifthfiend]

my favorite part was that they didn't give Snaf a voice.

Yet more gibberingly insane Snarf hatred, the mark of all maniacs and sociopaths.

[Premmy]

I LOVED how much of an Ass Tygra was and would just watch this show with him being better than everybody all the time. Just him and Gary Oak. Goin 'round. gettin bitches. hell yeah.

[Locke cole]

Is anyone else just a tad miffed by the use of "Technology" as a lost, mythological art?

I mean, Technology's a really wide term. Hammers are technology. If they'd just said "Lost Technology" or "High Technology" or something, it'd be less odd to hear.

[Magus]

I presumed they meant things involving electronics as their minimum baseline, not simple tools or even mechanical devices (such as winches, pulleys, spring-driven gears, etc.)

[BitVyper]

See, I figure literature from the period of high technology (as in: The Book of Omens) would use the word to describe stuff like their flying ships and whatever. How often do magazines actually refer to hammers as technology as opposed to the latest computer gadgets? The term falls into disuse because probably civilisation fell and people were rebuilding, and inventing isn't really a common thing under the feudal system, so when they see The Book of Omens and it talks about technology as bombs and flying ships and stuff, the term basically comes to mean "magic."

[Intern Nin]

Everyone take a good look.

Wilykat and Wilykit are adorable. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LdhlCLBauA&feature=channel_video_title)

[Magus]

See, I figure literature from the period of high technology (as in: The Book of Omens) would use the word to describe stuff like their flying ships and whatever. How often do magazines actually refer to hammers as technology as opposed to the latest computer gadgets? The term falls into disuse because probably civilisation fell and people were rebuilding, and inventing isn't really a common thing under the feudal system, so when they see The Book of Omens and it talks about technology as bombs and flying ships and stuff, the term basically comes to mean "magic."

It should totally turn out that the Book of Omens is Third Earth's equivalent of "Popular Science" and in fact originally had something like a million copies that all happened to be destroyed, leaving only one glossy-paged 150 page "tome" lying around in an abandoned rest stop bathroom.

[Gregness]

Everyone take a good look.

Wilykat and Wilykit are adorable. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LdhlCLBauA&feature=channel_video_title)

I... I think I just got diabetes.

[Kerensky287]

I think SWB's argument has some merit - I just saw most of the episode on youtube (some fragments were deleted, bluh) and it feels kind of like a prequel episode. I could totally see this being Avatar-esque (as in, Last Airbender/Legend of Korra) when it gets going, but for now all we have is backstory and some basic characterization. I guess it served to show what's different from the original series, though.

I like it so far. Will be keeping an eye on it.

[Aerozord]

My one issue with this episode was that it was insultingly predictable. moment I saw captain Ahab I thought, Liono is gonna learn a lesson. Sure enough the entire episode continued as one would assume

I did love the "Sand Sea" very Thundercats. You just dont get stuff like that anymore in fantasy. I missed it

[BitVyper]

Yeah, I figure I'll give them this one 'cause they pretty much had to do it eventually, and their Ahab was really cool. I'm liking Mummra a lot.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

This was the most moving episode I've ever seen, in any show I've seen, ever.

It really showed just how precious life is. And it was just the thing Liono needed to snap out of his depression wangts.

Also Panthor's bitch'n entrance in the Thunder Tank was all kinds of awesome.

[BitVyper]

Exploring existential themes was interesting.

[Bard The 5th LW]

And there's Panthro!

The thing with Emrik was also really sweet/sad/interesting.

[Sithdarth]

Ok so this show is officially goddamned awesome. Although it kind of worries me in that I'm not sure they can keep this up.

[BitVyper]

The problem is that there's no way they can make Panthro as rad as Earle Hyman Panthro was.

[Gregness]

I'm not sure what this says about me, but I actually felt a swell of something akin to pity when Emrik was trying to psych up the other petalars to help vs the lizard trackers. I dunno, something about his SERIOUS BUSINESS attitude even though it'd only been just a little while. I know it'd been literally most of the little guy's life to that point, but still.

[Locke cole]

The problem is that there's no way they can make Panthro as rad as Earle Hyman Panthro was.

His first act was to bust up a bunch of mechs with a laser-spitting tank. And he's got the voice of a giant Lion Turtle.

I am not worried in the slightest.

[Gregness]

Small detail: was this episode four or five?

[Locke cole]

Four.

If you count the hourlong pilot as two episodes.

Otherwise, three.

[Aerozord]

His first act was to bust up a bunch of mechs with a laser-spitting tank.

oh and the first thing he did after getting out was grab one by the throat and smack him with nun-chucks

So panthro, thundertank, giant glowing thundercats signal, at this point I cant think of any legit reason for old school fans to complain unless they REALLY got a thing for snarf playing mother hen

[Locke cole]

I wonder if the spikes on his armor work like a bunch of hookshots in this version of the show, like they did in the old cartoon.

That was a thing that was real, right? I didn't just make that up now?

[Gregness]

I couldn't find a video of it on Youtube, but I definitely remember that Locke.


Also, did anyone else think that Lion-o's decision to charge the lizards was retarded? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YKHloVKsW8) I mean, I know they were trying to make a point about living to the fullest, and if they're cornered then you might as well take some baddies with you but that wasn't really established. Actually, charging the lizards would have involved going through the most intense parts of the fire I'd think.

[Locke cole]

Well, the lizards had already caught up with them once before, when they thought they were making at least decent time, and were willing to burn down the entire forest to flush them out; they knew that the fire was a trap, and if they'd retreated, they'd be waiting for them to come out that way. Perhaps they thought that fighting them head-on, when they weren't expecting them to come that way, was the only way that a victory was even possible, unlikely as it was, as they'd just be run down over time if they ran from the fire.

[Aerozord]

Well, the lizards had already caught up with them once before, when they thought they were making at least decent time, and were willing to burn down the entire forest to flush them out; they knew that the fire was a trap, and if they'd retreated, they'd be waiting for them to come out that way. Perhaps they thought that fighting them head-on, when they weren't expecting them to come that way, was the only way that a victory was even possible, unlikely as it was, as they'd just be run down over time if they ran from the fire.

problem is Lion-o was totally right to not fight them head on. You have it backwards, they had a chance to escape, they had no chance to beat them. It was a stupid move and if not for a deus ex machina they'd all be dead. The only reason they survived is because the plot demanded it. There is a difference between bravery and stupidity, that was stupidity

[Locke cole]

Don't get me wrong, I know it was almost suicidally risky to fight them head on. What I meant was they had little choice at that point. The fire was made with the express purpose of flushing them out, which means they expected them to take a path out of the woods, and were planning an ambush. So if they ran, they'd probably end up being run down by that same group of mechs. It wasn't a pretty situation. It was basically a choice between "run and die" and "fight and die".

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I wonder if the spikes on his armor work like a bunch of hookshots in this version of the show, like they did in the old cartoon.

That was a thing that was real, right? I didn't just make that up now?

No you're right, it was a thing.

[Gregness]

problem is Lion-o was totally right to not fight them head on. You have it backwards, they had a chance to escape, they had no chance to beat them. It was a stupid move and if not for a deus ex machina they'd all be dead. The only reason they survived is because the plot demanded it. There is a difference between bravery and stupidity, that was stupidity

Granted, it was a totally bitchin' deus ex machina.

[Sithdarth]

This show continues to not disappoint. It's almost like American animation has finally learned the lessons of Anime.

[BitVyper]

I believe it's actually a Japanese studio doing the animation for this.

[Gregness]

So, is it just me or are we missing some exposition somewhere? In the pilot, Lion-O had no idea what the sword's powers were and in this episode he knows the invocation for Sight Beyond Sight? None of the episodes so far have focused on Lion-O mastering the sword so what gives?

[Locke cole]

Isn't the invocation for that just "Sword of Omens, give me Sight Beyond Sight"? To the uninitiated, it would sound like a guy just pleading with the sword.

I haven't seen the most recent episode, but he could've just gotten lucky. He knew that "Sight Beyond Sight" was something he should have, so...

[Sithdarth]

Psst. Cheetara is some form of cleric and apparantly was Jaga's right hand or something. If anyone in the group knows about the special code words to work the sword it would be her.

[Gregness]

Yeah, I get that. It just seems odd to me that something like learning to use the freaking Sword of Omens would happen offscreen is all. I suppose this is the way they're trying to handle having story arcs while maintaining an episodic appeal? Like, there's certain things they assume happen offscreen so you don't need to follow every episode to know what's going on.

[Aerozord]

if I recall in the original series there was no training, he just knew how to work it.

say was I the only one that thought that was Tigra in the flashback?

[BitVyper]

I loved the water trap, and the secret switch. They would be great for trolling a D&D group.

Also loved how Cheetara didn't seem to be doing any super speeding when she went through the blades, then the camera shifted to everyone else's perspective, and they were spinning at a speed like helicopter blades.

Kiiiinda wish the flashback had taken place AFTER Mummra's first transformation.

Edit: As far as sight beyond sight goes, who says it's a specific invocation? Maybe it's just a prayer he came up with hoping for a vision. He knows it gives them, and even when it shows him nothing, it still shows him a big black nothing, indicating that something is happening. He found out that it could give visions in the first episode, and Jaga made reference to sight beyond sight, so it's entirely possible he's just praying.

I mean, what would YOU do with that much basic information? Think of all the shit people tried when their Nintendo cartridges weren't working.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

http://geek-news.mtv.com/2011/08/30/new-thundercats-silverhawks-tigersharks-reveal-episode-7-legacy/

Nifty. Silverhawk connection.

[Kerensky287]

I'm not really sure what to think of the show so far. Like, on the one hand, the fight scenes and art are fantastic, and it looks like it has the potential to be the next Reboot or Gargoyles.

On the other hand... the writing is terrible. Like, I get that it's a kids' show, but the fight to reach the Book of Omens was basically one Deus Ex Machina after another. In fact, most of the series so far has seemed to revolve around that. And with just a little more effort, it could actually feel like the characters are driving their own victories!

That water trap was solved by Panthro's brilliant ability to not swim. What if his hookshot spike thingies had come into play instead, letting him open the grate from below? That's the sort of thing I'm talking about.

And ugh, that dialog.

"What are you doing? I am your friend!"

"No! You are my enemy!!"

/oscarworthy

And yet I keep watching it. I'm really not sure why I enjoy it so much.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

So did anyone catch last weeks episode? I thought It was pretty heartwarming. Though I'm a sword fanatic so you probably shouldn't take my word for it. >_>

[phil_]

I thought it was the best episode so far, but I didn't feel like it was worth posting just to say so. Rabbit guy had me laughing whenever he spoke. Also, good on the animation staff for showing Lion-O's sword getting dinged up while he used it as a shield and good on the writers for not feeling the need to point it out.

[Donomni]

I'm honestly surprised that while a sword was made in an afternoon, it had the actual quality of a sword made in an afternoon.

As in, a piece of shit.

[synkr0nized]

So I have now seen all of the episodes available -- or that I am aware of, at any rate -- of this show. Liked it. Will watch more. Was pleasantly surprised. Noted faults, but come on I am pretty sure it's still aimed at kids/young adults, so that's expected. Run on sentences / sentence fragments.

[Gregness]

Speaking of, I haven't seen any new episodes in like three weeks. Have they cancelled it?

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Given the animation quality rather high for an american TV show. Enough to take a good while longer to finish then usual. They are probably on a season break to finish up some more eps. I'd imagen they'll have a new ep out sometime in the spring at the lastest.

[BitVyper]

They're on a six week break.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

If it means anything I checked around Toon Zone and found out that the toys for Thundercats 2011 have sold very well.

So it's safe to say this show will make it to it's planned 26th episode.

[Sithdarth]

Man I'm really starting to like this show. Panthro + cute robot teddy bears = awesome.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Verbes will give you diabetes.

An Willikit and Willicat hyped up on candy fruit is hilarious.

[Gregness]

Just checked out episode 10. Just as Wileykit was playing her flute and I was wondering if they were ever going to develop the motif further when BAM, flute/low brass goodness.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

So... anyone else still watching Thundercat 2k11?

Episode 12 (new) gave us a taste of Cheetara's and Tigra's past. Tigra REALLY has issues about Lion-o getting not only the sword but Cheetara's attention as well. And the Elder Elephant Munk warns Lion-o that by the end of his and tigra's Journey through the astral plane. Lion-o will be betrayed by his brother.

Also gotta love how the Elephant Munks gave away the Thundercats when they were trying to rescue the munks from skelator's men without being spotted. XD

[BitVyper]

Giving Cheetara and Tygra a backstory together was kind of a cheat when it wasn't so much as hinted at before. The fact that they didn't even acknowledge each other gives me FFVIII vibes.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I'm still watching it, but Bearbils episode aside, haven't really gotten into it.

[phil_]

Also gotta love of the Elephant Munks gave away the Thundercats when they are trying to rescue the munks from skelator's men without being spotted. XDI like that Wilykat was all, "Oh, he did remember us." Looking on the bright side and all that.Giving Cheetara and Tygra a backstory together was kind of a cheat when it wasn't so much as hinted at before. The fact that they didn't even acknowledge each other gives me FFVIII vibes.Well, Cheetara probably never cared about Tigra, and Tigra keeps his thoughts to himself (Excepting "You're a loser, Lion-O"), so yeah. I feel comfortable hand-waving it away like that.

[Tev]

Giving Cheetara and Tygra a backstory together was kind of a cheat when it wasn't so much as hinted at before. The fact that they didn't even acknowledge each other gives me FFVIII vibes.Did you miss the first episode or something? Lion-o clearly called Tigra out for flirting with her in the throne room and it was established slightly before then that they knew each other.

Now they may not have had a defined "relationship" to this point but, as Tigra pointed out, he's always seemed invisible to Cheetara. She's thrown her whole life into being a cleric and probably didn't have time for him.

[Sithdarth]

Panthro is so getting badass mecha-arms. He also got a much needed shot of badass from the whole sacrificing his arms to get rid of Grune thing. Although somehow I don't think Grune is gone for good.

Finally the whole Cheetara thing is even more messed up now. Apparently she's just really damn mean or something. That or she just really doesn't think about other people's feelings much.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I'm banking on the later personally. Also looks like the cats will be paying the veerbals a visit.

[BitVyper]

Finally the whole Cheetara thing is even more messed up now. Apparently she's just really damn mean or something. That or she just really doesn't think about other people's feelings much.

Eh, no one can blame her for that whole business. It's not her responsibility to sort things out for two guys who haven't learned the cardinal rule. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bros+before+hoes) The whole thing of setting a girl up on a pedestal and suddenly making all your stupid rivalry her responsibility is so bullshit.

I really hope this doesn't get turned into a big deal between Liono and Tygra. I mean, come on Liono. This is not betrayal.

I also wish Liono would quit forgetting the things he's learned. It's getting tiresome.

[Sithdarth]

Eh, no one can blame her for that whole business. It's not her responsibility to sort things out for two guys who haven't learned the cardinal rule. The whole thing of setting a girl up on a pedestal and suddenly making all your stupid rivalry her responsibility is so bullshit.


Not a single one of them gets out of this one free and clear that is for sure. However, Cheetara has slightly, and I stress here very slightly, more blame. I'm not talking double standard here because she is female either. You never assume someone is going to correctly interpret physical contact no matter what gender both you and they are. As a rule people are idiots and physical action is generally ambiguous. It is not at all hard to remove the ambiguity with a simple statement.

Now I'm not saying she had to be all "Sorry Lion-O I'm in heat for Tygra" every time she so much as looked at Lion-O. That's patently absurd and an example of a logical fallacy. Just one clear statement of how exactly she felt about Lion-O at any point would have completely diffused the whole situation. Sure Lion-O might be a little upset that his crush thinks of him as a brother or what not but leaving it ambiguous was simply setting things up for disaster. Once again I would like to say that this response is entirely gender neutral and applies equally to any male that finds himself in a similar situation. If you're initiating physical contact that could in anyway be misinterpreted it is your responsibility to make sure that it isn't. Case closed, end of story.