Exalted: Shadow and Steel, Discussion I: We are making this happen

[Arhra]

Soooooooooo

When we doin' this?

Now. (http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthread.php?p=1147818#post1147818)

I ran into some stumbling blocks with RMB and KP, so I'll be doing them tomorrow instead.

RMB: I wasn't sure if you'd be checking the place out as a manly man, or trying a more stealthy approach by going in as a gecko or something.

KP: Since your thing will involve much social, I am planning to corner you on a chat client tomorrow and thrash something out.

Lastly, Phoenix has informed me she'll be dropping out.

I decided it was best to split KP and Sith up after all, so it's Syren, Masik and Cap'tn all on the caravan.

I found myself halfway through writing an intro with people trying to talk their way onto the caravan and then I went "Argh, what am I doing?! Cut to the chase!"

So ambushes with smoke instead.

Feel free to fill in the background of getting to where you are now. You have a lot of latitude to make stuff up as far as that guys. I'm sure you already have a pretty decent idea of what SERGA VELL, ENTREPNEUR EXTRAORDINAIRE is like. He also has a mustache.

For Sith, I'd been debating the captain of the guard, Nahan Brosmoth, was going to get you to prove your worthiness by beating up a few poor, random guys.

The Peer is named Ward of Emerald and is a jackass! Rides a horse, has a bow, doesn't afraid of anything.

Any questions, ask away.

[Red Mage Black]

Yowch, knew I should have clarified that one. I think the more 'manly man' approach of 'what the hell do you think you're doing?' is more in the order of how he'd do things. As you can see, he really isn't into stealth.

[Arhra]

Bluh, I am a creative void right now.

I will get everything updated tomorrow, even if I have to beat up the devil until he grants my wish!

[Overcast]

For a thousand summers...

[Arhra]

Alright, so the secret is out. You are being ambushed by demon percussionists. They have been kidnapping people to join their band, since it is the only instrument they can play according to cruel demonic laws penned in azure ink.

If Masik wants to keep running, it'll be a Dex + Athletics roll to see if he makes it. I did a Wits + Athletics roll to see if he thinks he can, seeing it's a snap decision sort of thing.

Take that as you will!

RMB, just ask for any informaion you need on the village. I have left it pretty open ended right now, since I wasn't sure what info you need. Apply your plot finding skills in whatever way you find most suitable! Also if you could provide a quick outline of Harken's appearance, I will be able to decide on an appropriate level of 'Ahhhh, barbarian!'

KP! I have been unable to speak with you properly yet so that's waiting some more.

[Overcast]

Heya, out on deployment right now. Slow internet and no access to messengers, when I do I'll be right on the messenger so I can better figure out what to do right now. But still part of this if we are all still cool.

[Krylo]

Work (last week) + Deus Ex (this week) = Slow posting.

Also: wasn't sure if you wanted to be doing the rolls or if we should do our own. If the latter just ping me on AIM when you aren't away anymore.

[Arhra]

OK, time to talk about one of the reasons for delays.

The more I look at Exalted's system, the more convinced I become that parts of it just aren't going to work in a forum based game. Most specifically the combat and, to a lesser extent, the social combat.

Problems as I see them are firstly that resolving even a single attack requires response from the attacking and defending players at several points in the ten step process. God forbid if they do something like flurry. Other deal breaker is a structured initiative system that requires everyone to post in a specific order.

So we basically have two options:

1) Simplified rule set. Most things seem like they'd be fine as is, priority would be vastly simplified combat rules.

2) Freeform! On the plus side, it saves me work and should be pretty fluid. On the downside, slightly trickier to handle such things as anima flare, limit breaks and clear indication of the level of danger something poses.

What would people prefer?

[Krylo]

Try 1 first, go to 2 if 1 turns out to be too much work or still doesn't work right.

[Arhra]

OK, if everyone's still in, this is going to be a little adhoc for a while.

I will be rolling combat a lot like skill checks until I have a more solid system in place since the full system is going to be a nightmare.

On the smoke, Syren will be the only one suffering the full effects this round, which are startlingly like tear gas!

Everyone else has a small penalty on account of stinging eyes and runny noses.

Pillar's on the right side of the caravan, there are gas-mask men approaching from both sides, lots of them.

Left off NPC reactions for the moment because Solars are more important and should get the first words in.

[Overcast]

Still in, will get post up likely this weekend if I can get away from the leadership long enough. Peace and love, with a side of tear gas.

[Sithdarth]

Here's hoping between the smoke and the things attacking us no one takes a super close look at what just happened. In other news I also hope at least some of the attackers are capable of fear. In any event pretty much everyone should know exactly where I am now.

[Overcast]

Due to the bad schedule here on the boat I have decided to post an action without feedback first and then wait for someone to tell me all the checks I actually need to do in post so I can edit them in.

[Red Mage Black]

Truth be told, I thought this whole thing was abandoned. Until I saw the post in the RP at least. I apologize if my post makes it hard for you to continue that line of RP. Just playing him as the heartless cold bastard that he grew up to become.

[Arhra]

Hmm, I had a closer look at the Dawn anima power and was all "Holy crap, it makes mortals flee?!" but then looked closer and it turns out it's just a standard difficulty Valour check. Kinda underwhelming.

So I looked at the semi-offical erratta:

While this power is in effect, the character exudes a fear aura which causes all opponents attempting to attack or oppose her (socially or physically) to suffer a -1 external penalty on all attack rolls. This unnatural Emotion effect costs five points of Willpower to ignore for the rest of the scene. The Dawn’s terrifying glory unbound also disrupts attempts at coordinating attacks against her, increasing the difficulty to arrange such attacks by 2. Additionally, the immense essence pressure within the character’s anima slows all incoming attacks, increasing the character’s DVs by 2. Finally, Solars of the Dawn Caste are immune to all fear-based Emotion effects while their anima power is active. If a complementary mass combat unit is forced to check for rout because of the Dawn Caste’s actions while this anima is active, they suffer a -2 external penalty to the roll.

Am thinking it is somewhat overcomplicated. Debating using a -2 Fear internal penalty on actions involving Dawn (5 willpower to resist, no checks) and immunity to fear effects for a cost of 5 motes.

This Fear penalty is consistent with the effects of failing a morale check. Enemies who need to make a morale check (i.e. extras) flee if they fail the check instead of suffering the normal result.

How's that sound?

[Sithdarth]

Sounds good to me.

[Krylo]

Hmm, I had a closer look at the Dawn anima power and was all "Holy crap, it makes mortals flee?!" but then looked closer and it turns out it's just a standard difficulty Valour check. Kinda underwhelming.
Dawn anima power has pretty much always been considered a joke.

[Red Mage Black]

When you think about it, the difficulty should probably be based on Essence score instead of just giving it a fixed value, because then it becomes useless at higher experience levels. That kind of reminds me to skim through the Lunars book again. Since the break in RP kind of killed my concentration on Exalted stuff.

[Arhra]

Actually, that was the other thing.

I've decided to use variant chargen rules for Lunars (http://fixalted.bazzalisk.org/index.php?title=Domino%27s_Original_Chargen_Rules)

It gives them slightly more stuff than Solars starting out, but that's no different than Abyssals getting more support on account of having a ton of guys backing them up.

Also better pick out some Intimacies, yo! Houseruled to Compassion + (Willpower / 2).

That was the other, other thing come to think of it. For the love of Luna, take a Dexterity Excellency! Unless you like flying apart in bloody chunks on account of being unable to boost your accuracy and DVs.

[Krylo]

Except heroic mortals at least.Nah, even they are just meat for the grinder. Maybe one could last a round or two if no charms were used.

Unless you like flying apart in bloody chunks on account of being unable to boost your accuracy and DVs.

Well I know I do!

[Arhra]

OK, debated combat lite system:

First off the intent is basically to add special effects to attacks through stunting and charms to make it more than a raw damage race. Defences have exploitable weaknesses for that reason. Also hoping to make Dex less of a god-stat.

An attack is abstracted to 'anything offensive I can do in five to twenty seconds' to give more freedom on what it is. No flurries unless combining an attack with a different action. All multiple action things just subtract a number of dice from all pools equal to the number of actions taken.

You can use any number of charms in a round. The attacker must declare all charms they intend to use to modify an attack before rolling any dice. They don't have to use them, but there's a one mote charge for every unused charm at the resolution of the attack. There might be a lmit on the maximum number of motes you can spend on a single attack.

Instead of DV, you roll the dice pool for your applicable defence.

The defences are Dodge/Parry/Armour. You can apply up to two, but the second one has its pool halved. The secondary defence must be later in that list than the primary.

If both rolls are less than the Attack Roll, the attack hits.

Dodge: Dex + Dodge + Essence
Parry: Dex + Melee/Martial Arts + Weapon Defence Bonus
Armour: Stamina + Armour Rating

The armour rating is huge compared to other bonuses.

Each defence has a weakness to a certain type of attack. You get affected by it if you chose to apply that type of defence.

Dodge - Area Denial: You need to be able to move to dodge. All attacks force you to move a short distance as the enemy decides. The intent is that if you're dodging each round and not stunting or otherwise trying to break out, you'll eventually get pinned down. Exotic Area Denial attacks might be something like a grenade. It is usually resisted with Wits.

Parry - Onslaught: Attacks where having to stick your weapon in the way causes problems. The fencer having to give ground before a concerted attack or that guy just whalloping you so hard you go sliding backwards. Usually resisted with Strength.

Armour - Bad Touch: An attack where you really don't want the enemy to come into physical contact with you. Abyssal essence draining charms for example. Tripping or initiating a grapple is the more mundane example. Usually resisted with Stamina.

Stunts or charms will generally apply one or more of these.

Soak works the same, with our variant ping rules. However, extra successes on your attack roll do not increase damage. Armour soak will get tweaked to represent this. Hardness probably also needs a fix.

Probably going to reduce weapon damage.

Perfect defences only cost 1 willpower, can be used at any time, halve all damage you take and the attack cannot Incapacitate or kill you. Probably also removes the weakness of that defence type. Tempted to include also adding 1 Limit.

Other things under debate: Fleshed out called shot options, adding the ability to trade in raw damage and instead inflict a penalty like breaking an arm.

Basic idea is to try and give people a lot of stuff to do in a single round and try and win by stacking up interesting inflictions on the enemy instead of just reducing their HP to zero.

Main drawback is most combat charms need to be rewritten. However, since combat charms are disproportionately represented in Exalted, the simplificaiton means less should be eneded and they should be wider reaching.

EDIT: For reference, equal sized dice pools mean about a 50% chance of hitting.

EDIT2: Special effects on attacks generally only apply if you use a defence that's vulnerable to it. A powerful blow that causes sends you flying applies to both Armour and Parry defences for example. If you successfully Dodge, you're fine.

[Arhra]

OK, since I haven't heard anything from anyone except Krylo, I might have to declare this dead?

[Sithdarth]

Sorry I was away for a week with relatively little time for internet stuff.

[Overcast]

I have told you the things on the pad in the place!

[Arhra]

OK then.

Thoughts for charms. The idea is to make them do a little more, since the combat charms do practically nothing compared to other charms.

Hungry Tiger Technique is now basically 1st [Raw Damage] Excellency. It is capped by [Melee/Martial Arts] as appropriate for the attack. It can be taken if you meet the prerequisites for either. Debating whether it should also apply to ranged attacks.

Lunars use a Strength Excellency for the same purpose. Yes, I know this makes them slightly better at ripping and tearing than Solars.

One Weapon Two Blows no longer exists.

Peony Blossom Attack inflicts Onslaught and Area Denial. Would appreciate suggestions for the penalties it inflicts and an appropriate cost.

Iron Whirlwind Attack probably doesn't exist since it's just a better flurry unless anyone has something interesting to suggest.

Call the Blade is fine.

Sith gets two more charms to choose as a result of these changes. He should also spend his BP on something else now there's no combos.

Shadow Over Water is fine as is. Might increase the cost to two motes, given people can only attack once a turn now.

All perfect defences now just cost one Willpower and halve the damage before soak. They also mean the attack cannot kill you and negate any special effects of the attack.

Reflexive Sidestep is fine.

Flow Like Blood applies to coordinated attacks and gives a bonus to resist area denial effects.

Will cover the relevant Lunar charms once I have familiarised with them again.

[Sithdarth]

Sith gets two more charms to choose as a result of these changes. He should also spend his BP on something else now there's no combos.


That's actually quite nice because I sacrificed somethings I wanted to do that would've been essentially fluff to make Cap even more like his name sake in order to not die.