The New 52

[The Sevenshot Kid]

A while back I started a thread about DC's decision to relaunch all of their titles and now the time has finally come where they've begun to do just that.

The first title to be released was Justice League #1 by Geoff Johns and Jim Lee. It's not bad but it's nothing really special yet. In simple terms, the first issue is a buddy cop film with Batman and Green Lantern set five years in the past right before the formation of the League and relatively early in the superhero timeline. Superman makes a brief appearance at the end that includes a callback to an earlier joke in the issue that I found fairly humorous. The villain of the opening arc is revealed in a way that's both slightly perplexing but logical enough not to make the reader drop the book in disgust.

There's another minor intro for Cyborg before becoming, well, y'know, Cyborg. Other than that, the rest of the League doesn't really show up. The writing is pretty good, par for the course with Geoff Johns, but the art isn't all that special. This is highly subjective though since I've never been that big of a Jim Lee fan. The issue provides a good set-up that has potential to make something good so I'm pretty optimistic. If I had to rate it I'd give the issue a 4 out of 5 based on it's accessibility to new and old readers.

I'm still cautious about the new DCU but this issue has actually chipped away at my cynicism. I'll be buying a lot of these titles as they come out this month so I can see which ones are worth reading. I'll drop a mini-review for each one I get so you guys can decide if you're interested in what the relaunch has to offer.

Feel free to drop your own opinions on the titles and discuss what you think about them.

[Magus]

The only thing I have to add is a Batman and Green Arrow team-up would make way more sense than pretty much all the Batman team-ups in comics thus far. I'll read this and get back to you, though.

EDIT: Okay, what I find to be the worst thing about this is for something that isn't really much of a reboot, they did a crap ton of infodumping in this about the powers (for a comic book, I mean, which is mostly about dispensing with the talking). Also Green Lantern talking in the third person about himself (comes off as kind of a douche bag, all told).

The handholding must lull new readers into a sense of security and then WHAMBAM later on they find out Batman has had like, five Robins and the current one is his son to a villain they may or may not have ever heard of, and btw all that Brightest Day shenanigans happened too.

However, maybe stuff is going to happen "five years ago" a lot. So that might be good. They could always run a "past" and "present" concurrently in the comics.

So in a way it's good, in other ways, it's kind of silly.

As for Jim Lee, his art is just...it is. It's all pretty good and anatomically correct and all, fairly interesting visually, but there's nothing really special about it in any way shape or form. I think in a way that's its strength, you don't really notice it, good or bad, so you can be drawn into the story better. There's nothing about it that sets it apart uniquely, it's just all around great. Compare to like, Rob Liefeld for instance, you can immediately recognize Liefeld by how astronomically horrible his art is. BUT it is certainly different. There are other artists who are pretty good but the characters stances are stiffer, less fluid...with Jim Lee you can just focus on the events of the story.

ANOTHER EDIT: Okay, I can find two flaws with Jim Lee: too many lines/shading (it's too busy), and he enjoys gritted teeth almost as much as Rob Liefeld (but fortunately seems aware of how many humans actually possess).

Also the new Superman costume is pretty horrible, but that's not really his fault...wait, is it? Did he design it?

YET ANOTHER EDIT:

Hahahaha, omg, hahahaha what is up with this hahahaha Green Arrow redesign hahahahaha

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4052/greenarrow1cover280x420.jpg

Hahahahaha why hahaha who hahahaha who came up with this ahahahahahaa...

...BWAHAHAHAHAHA IT'S THE DUDE FROM SMALLVILLE RAHAHAHA

[Nique]

There are too many Batman comics running in the new 52. Like, a stupid amount of Batman comics.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4052/greenarrow1cover280x420.jpg

Hahahahaha why hahaha who hahahaha who came up with this ahahahahahaa...

...BWAHAHAHAHAHA IT'S THE DUDE FROM SMALLVILLE RAHAHAHA

Maybe he finally realized being the one guy in Star City with a forked beard was giving his secret identity hell. As a fan of Smallville, I'm actually pretty cool with this design choice.

Edit:

There are too many Batman comics running in the new 52. Like, a stupid amount of Batman comics.

I can already tell you which ones will be good and which will be shit.

Good:
- Batman
- Detective Comics
- Batgirl
- Batwoman

Shit:
- Batman: The Dark Knight
- Batwing (the title alone spells certain doom for this book)
- Birds of Prey
- and most likely Catwoman

One the Fence:
- Red Hood and the Outlaws
- Nightwing

[POS Industries]

There are too many Batman comics running in the new 52. Like, a stupid amount of Batman comics.
And yet with all those Batbooks, they somehow managed to cancel all the ones I was reading. Go figure.

Good:
- Batgirl
Haha, no. There has so far been nothing about this, from the basic concept to Barbara's costume design (though everyone's new costume design looks awful so in this case it's par for the course) the first few preview pages they released, that has suggested that this series is going to be any good whatsoever. I will grant that it does appear to have the best art out of any Batgirl title ever published, but so far that's the only improvement I'm seeing so far.

After the release of the preview, it has been suggested that Gail Simone is actively sabotaging the book in an attempt to give it a quick death, seeing as her stance on putting Babs back in costume was staunchly in the negative (and rightly so!) right up until the moment she was put on this book. Of course, I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory myself, since I'm well aware that Gail's writing is of inconsistent quality regardless of her motive, and it's more than likely that the task of taking a character whose personality has been built around being a brainy, paraplegic computer jockey for the past two decades and then suddenly transplanting her into the role of a roof-hopping, high-kicking costumed crimefighter is more than most writers could handle.

But if the number of preorders are any indication, this book's probably going to be around for a while anyway. Of course, before the relaunch, "Batman: The Dark Knight" was apparently both the highest selling Batbook and generally considered the absolute worst, so I'm not going to try to find any sort of logic here.

As for Batwing, I wouldn't necessarily say the title is what spells certain doom for it so much as lack of adequate promotion, not giving the main character time to build up any interest before giving him a solo title (as of right now he's just a guy that briefly appeared in Batman Inc and did fuck all), and having it written by Judd Winick pretty much means it's going to be utter joyless crap.

Everyone should buy Batwoman, though. It so far looks like it's easily going to be the best thing DC is putting out, and not even just by comparison to the complete horseshit they're otherwise shoveling. The art is breathtaking, the writing solid, the characters interesting. This is pretty much exactly what a comic book should be.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Everyone should buy Batwoman, though. It so far looks like it's easily going to be the best thing DC is putting out, and not even just by comparison to the complete horseshit they're otherwise shoveling. The art is breathtaking, the writing solid, the characters interesting. This is pretty much exactly what a comic book should be.

DC needs to cook up some absolute editions for all of the Batwoman stuff because the art is absolutely gorgeous and needs to be seen on a larger and higher quality scale.

As for Batwing I'm just not feeling it. The idea of Batman is most suited to a crowded city-scape so having a Batman in Africa doesn't really make sense to me. Especially not with that awful costume. I like Judd Winnick but I don't see why he would get brought on this book.

I only have faith in Batgirl based on the art and not necessarily the writer behind it.

But if the number of preorders are any indication, this book's probably going to be around for a while anyway. Of course, before the relaunch, "Batman: The Dark Knight" was apparently both the highest selling Batbook and generally considered the absolute worst, so I'm not going to try to find any sort of logic here.

Don't get me started on that book. Terrible art, terrible story, just terrible. How David Finch gets work is a mystery to me.

[Magus]

All I can say about Batgirl's "cure" is that since they are moving Batman Beyond into the regular DC Comics timeline with the inclusion of villains like Hush,, we knew she would be able to walk again eventually.

Personally I figured it was because in the future they actually invested in stem cell research.

EDIT: I bought the first few issues of Batman: The Dark Knight because my comic books store guy recommended it to me. In retrospect it's probably because it cost a dollar more than the other books. Personally it didn't seem to be very interesting so I dropped it.

ANOTHER EDIT: I loved the original Detective Comics run of Batwoman based simply on the gorgeous reds and blacks. The plot, though, was not the most amazing thing I ever read, personally...but visually it was an A+.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

All I can say about Batgirl's "cure" is that since they are moving Batman Beyond into the regular DC Comics timeline with the inclusion of villains like Hush,, we knew she would be able to walk again eventually.

Personally I figured it was because in the future they actually invested in stem cell research.

EDIT: I bought the first few issues of Batman: The Dark Knight because my comic books store guy recommended it to me. In retrospect it's probably because it cost a dollar more than the other books. Personally it didn't seem to be very interesting so I dropped it.

My understanding is that they've always been able to cure Babs but she decided that she was okay with living with her disability. Which makes the decision to make her Batgirl again very perplexing. Like Dick Grayson outgrowing Robin, it seemed like Babs had outgrown being Batgirl and become more effective as Oracle than she ever could have hoped to as Batgirl.

I'm seeing that Wendy chick from the last really great Batgirl series becoming the new Oracle now that Babs has left the chair empty. All in all, I do feel like this was a bad choice.

[Magus]

My understanding is that they've always been able to cure Babs but she decided that she was okay with living with her disability.

Maybe they decided this was grossly unrealistic and made zero sense? I'm pretty sure she can still do surveillance and hack the web for Batman while being able to walk to the bathroom under her own motive power. Like if this was actually the explanation then they are silly, it would have made more sense to blame it on lack of technology and just pretend they don't know anything about magic (despite it cropping up all the time). Just explain it away the same way they do when people ask "Why doesn't Superman just kill all the Batman villains since they are all worthless mortals? It would take him one night, tops."

Also, I could maybe forgive the Green Arrow redesign if it weren't for the really dumb beard he now has. Oliver Queen doesn't deserve to have something that looks better on a frat dude.

Also goggles are dumb 95% of the time.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Maybe they decided this was grossly unrealistic and made zero sense? I'm pretty sure she can still do surveillance and hack the web for Batman while being able to walk to the bathroom under her own motive power. Like if this was actually the explanation then they are silly, it would have made more sense to blame it on lack of technology and just pretend they don't know anything about magic (despite it cropping up all the time). Just explain it away the same way they do when people ask "Why doesn't Superman just kill all the Batman villains since they are all worthless mortals? It would take him one night, tops."

This is totally off-topic but have you read any of the New Krypton stuff from the past couple of years? There's this great scene where all the Kryptonians head out and start murdering Superman's enemies as a thank you for fixing Kandor only for him to freak the fuck out. And their reaction to his freak-out is priceless. They basically tell him, "We're just doing you a favor, man. You don't have to be a dick about it."

Also, I could maybe forgive the Green Arrow redesign if it weren't for the really dumb beard he now has. Oliver Queen doesn't deserve to have something that looks better on a frat dude.

May I refer you back to the previous fork beard that went out of style hundreds of years ago.

[Magus]

This is totally off-topic but have you read any of the New Krypton stuff from the past couple of years? There's this great scene where all the Kryptonians head out and start murdering Superman's enemies as a thank you for fixing Kandor only for him to freak the fuck out. And their reaction to his freak-out is priceless. They basically tell him, "We're just doing you a favor, man. You don't have to be a dick about it."

No, I haven't followed that, but I do remember that Justice League episode where the alternate dimension "Justice Lords" version of the heroes had made the world into a fabulous utopia by demolishing world governments and lobotomizing violent criminals like the Joker. The Justice League's response is to ruin their wonderful paradise 'cause "something something authoritarianism something something free will."

May I refer you back to the previous fork beard that went out of style hundreds of years ago.

Yeah but it went with his Robin Hood get-up. If they want to modernize him just give him a normal beard or fumanchu. Not muttonchops or an Amish beard or a neckbeard or whatever is going on there.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Yeah but it went with his Robin Hood get-up. If they want to modernize him just give him a normal beard or fumanchu. Not muttonchops or an Amish beard or a neckbeard or whatever is going on there.

Ollie's a douche! They gave him a douche beard! And millions of douches have that beard. It makes him less distinguishable than some crazy beard-strosity that no one in their right mind would wear in this day and age. Although there was a comic where some random dude with that same beard in Star City chewed out the Justice League which lends credence to the theory that Star City is loaded with douche bags with fork beards and-

Oh my, I've gone cross-eyed.

[Magus]

Can he really be more of a douche than Green Lantern in that comic, though?

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Can he really be more of a douche than Green Lantern in that comic, though?

Have you read the solicitations? They're turning him into a globe-trotting douche who breaks the law in order to fight crimes on a whim. You were right, it's Smallville Ollie without the inherit likability or Clark to contrast him.

[Jagos]

So here's a question from the picture thread...

How is Supes a "shitty" character? I haven't followed the DC universe, merely knowing the characters. Yes, I know that he got married for a while to Lois Lane, but the interest in the DC uni is limited to only Batman and possibly Wonder Woman on the side.

I can't relate to Superman. He has a high moralistic background and he's been damn near godmoding Scott Summers for a while.

The Green Lantern I hadn't heard of until the movie... Yeah...

I remember watching Wonder Woman on TV so I've never seen why she's such a draw. I later found out she was done by a psychologist who modeled her after his wife and her mistress' relationship.

I think that's about it for the DC Uni for me.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

So here's a question from the picture thread...

How is Supes a "shitty" character?

Supes is old. Really old. Pretty much everything you could imagine doing with the character has been done. Twice. That and the nature of his abilities makes it really hard for writers to make him interesting. That's been averted recently with some very good arcs and series (All-Star Superman and New Krypton being stand-outs). He's just a hard character to get right so a lot of writer's don't even try or they end up going too far.

I can't relate to Superman. He has a high moralistic background and he's been damn near godmoding Scott Summers for a while.

This is a trap that a lot of people fall into. You're not really supposed to relate to Superman. You're supposed to relate to Clark Kent but sadly this side of Supes is ignored too often. Superman is supposed to be a role model. He's the guy you look up to as a beacon of hope. All-Star Superman is a good example of a writer taking Superman and Clark Kent and making them the same person (this might sound weird but it's hard to explain.

And Scott Summers is the most interesting and compelling character in all of X-Men. Anyone who says different is wrong.

The Green Lantern I hadn't heard of until the movie... Yeah...

Read Secret Origin if you can. If it doesn't make you like the character than nothing will so it'll save some time.

I remember watching Wonder Woman on TV so I've never seen why she's such a draw. I later found out she was done by a psychologist who modeled her after his wife and her mistress' relationship.

Oh, Wonder Woman... Another character that is almost never written well.

I think that's about it for the DC Uni for me.

If you want something awesome from the DCU that isn't superheroes you need to be reading Jonah Hex. He's being featured in All-Star Western during the relaunch and that's looking to be a good title.

[Magus]

I've also found things only tangentially related to the main comics are usually way better. Batman Beyond or Secret Six, for instance.

Have you read the solicitations? They're turning him into a globe-trotting douche who breaks the law in order to fight crimes on a whim. You were right, it's Smallville Ollie without the inherit likability or Clark to contrast him.

I dunno, that sounds exactly like Batman...and they're basically the same character with different costumes and motifs. I've said about a hundred times they should just team them up instead of bothering to have a separate Green Arrow comic. They can just write Bruce as the insufferable conservative and Ollie as the bleeding heart liberal. Wacky hijinks ensue.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I dunno, that sounds exactly like Batman...and they're basically the same character with different costumes and motifs. I've said about a hundred times they should just team them up instead of bothering to have a separate Green Arrow comic. They can just write Bruce as the insufferable conservative and Ollie as the bleeding heart liberal. Wacky hijinks ensue.

Batman as a conservative? No. No, no, no, no, no, no, no. No. No. NO!

And they're not the same. Bruce fights crime in Gotham because he has been psychologically scarred. Ollie runs around being a dick because he's a dick who just so happens to have dead parents.

[Jagos]

This is a trap that a lot of people fall into. You're not really supposed to relate to Superman. You're supposed to relate to Clark Kent but sadly this side of Supes is ignored too often. Superman is supposed to be a role model. He's the guy you look up to as a beacon of hope. All-Star Superman is a good example of a writer taking Superman and Clark Kent and making them the same person (this might sound weird but it's hard to explain.

That's the problem. He's non-existant. There's maybe ONE comic about Clark Kent. If anything, Spiderman is a flawed character. But the movies never talk about Kent except how he's the alter ego of Superman. I can relate to Spidey because of how effectively different Spidey is from Peter Parker. Balancing the life of a superhero is rough. I just don't see where Supes actually suffers or complains.

And Scott Summers is the most interesting and compelling character in all of X-Men. Anyone who says different is wrong.

BWAAAHAHAHAHA... Oh wait, you're serious.

I'll laugh harder.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Ok, on a serious note. His powers are great. His character is that of a brown nosing boyscout, hence the comparison to Supes. He might be a great tactical leader, but I just can't stand how much of a Marty Stu character he is! He always knows the right thing to do, what people should do...

Ok, I'll make it simple. The Boyscout characters are just a pain in the ass overall. They come so close to preaching to the audience, it's a reason I don't use them in my stories. I like a flaw here or there, that says "damn, I fucked up". The Scott and Wolvie wars are good for them, but it always seems that Scott is always preaching to someone which just annoys me. "You have to do X" "Over here, do Y!"

GRRR!



If you want something awesome from the DCU that isn't superheroes you need to be reading Jonah Hex. He's being featured in All-Star Western during the relaunch and that's looking to be a good title.

I sincerely hope that it's better than the movie... DC just does NOT make good movies unless it has Batman.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

That's the problem. He's non-existant. There's maybe ONE comic about Clark Kent. If anything, Spiderman is a flawed character. But the movies never talk about Kent except how he's the alter ego of Superman. I can relate to Spidey because of how effectively different Spidey is from Peter Parker. Balancing the life of a superhero is rough. I just don't see where Supes actually suffers or complains.



BWAAAHAHAHAHA... Oh wait, you're serious.

I'll laugh harder.

HAHAHAHAHA!

Ok, on a serious note. His powers are great. His character is that of a brown nosing boyscout, hence the comparison to Supes. He might be a great tactical leader, but I just can't stand how much of a Marty Stu character he is! He always knows the right thing to do, what people should do...

Boyscout? Cyclops as a boyscout? Okay, now it's my turn to laugh at you.

We're talking about the same guy that has taken to assassinating anyone that could pose a threat to mutant-kind and has made more unpopular decisions than you can shake a fist at, right? He's done shit that even Wolverine doesn't think is alright.

Cyclops ain't no boyscout. He's the leader of an endangered species out to make sure nothing fucks with them.

Edit:

That's the problem. He's non-existant. There's maybe ONE comic about Clark Kent. If anything, Spiderman is a flawed character. But the movies never talk about Kent except how he's the alter ego of Superman. I can relate to Spidey because of how effectively different Spidey is from Peter Parker. Balancing the life of a superhero is rough. I just don't see where Supes actually suffers or complains.

NEW. KRYPTON.

[Jagos]

Wait, what...?

When did Cyclops... Change? (Haven't paid attention to XMen since the 90s TV show)

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Wait, what...?

When did Cyclops... Change? (Haven't paid attention to XMen since the 90s TV show)

Dude. The 2000's have been great to Cyclops. In fact, he's always been a great character outside of adaptations where they tend to focus on boring ol' Wolverine.

[Jagos]

... Damn...

[POS Industries]

But the movies never talk about Kent except how he's the alter ego of Superman.
DC just does NOT make good movies unless it has Batman.
I believe quote B has just explained quote A.

When did Cyclops... Change? (Haven't paid attention to XMen since the 90s TV show)
Cyclops has more or less been the same character in the comics since the 70s. It's the 90s cartoon that's kind of off base here.

Don't get me wrong here or anything, it's nice to get in touch with what impression the average joe who doesn't really keep up with these characters in their original format has been given, because it helps the rest of us understand the audience to whom DC is currently trying to market itself.

But the long and the short of it is that nearly everything that Hollywood has told you about these characters is wrong.

[Jagos]

Well, having 80 years of backstory really doesn't help...

[Nique]

Any word on DC coming totally clean about what the timeline all of these books fall under is supposed to be?

[POS Industries]

Any word on DC coming totally clean about what the timeline all of these books fall under is supposed to be?
So far all answers from DC editorial have boiled down to "Everything happened except the stuff that didn't."

[Magus]

And it all took place within the span of 5 years or so.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

And it all took place within the span of 5 years or so.

I'm guessing Batman's been around longer than that because it would make more sense for him to be active at least another five years earlier. You can't go through five Robins in five years straight.

Edit:

Dude. Interview with Scott Snyder. (http://www.comicvine.com/news/exclusive-scott-snyder-goes-in-depth-on-his-plans-for-batman-in-dcs-new-52/143552/)

It's awesome. This gets me really excited for Batman in the new 52. And something I didn't realize, the co-author from Gates of Gotham is the guy writing Nightwing (I hadn't noticed) and now I'm really excited. Snyder gets Bruce, Dick, and all of Gotham. This is a man that knows his shit and is excited to prove it.

Double Edit:

Apparently Detective Comics is also taking place five years in the past and in this preview (http://www.comicvine.com/news/detective-comics-1-preview-batman-still-at-odds-with-the-gcpd/143548/) he mentions the Joker having been active for six years so this seems to confirm that Batman has been active for about eleven years.

[Fifthfiend]

If DC hadn't worked so hard over the years to convince me that anything apparently good that they're doing is actually going to turn out to be shit, I'd be ruining my khakis right now.

[Marc v4.0]

Lex tried to warn us!

[Amake]

I was just getting nostalgic about that time they made comics where Superman fought the KKK. You know that story? Their recruitment dropped to zero. Good times. But now what will happen to the police force service?

[Aerozord]

by fight you of course mean casually swatting them away like flies

[Professor Smarmiarty]

awesome.

[POS Industries]

So, I just read Batgirl #1. Spoilers ho!

The villain, having watched one too many Final Destination movies (by which I mean he watched at least one Final Destination movie) is going around killing people who he feels have cheated death or something. And he has a list! And Barbara Gordon is the next name on that list! So, naturally, he goes to Gotham to murder... a member of some random group of serial killers that Barbara stopped at the beginning of the issue, that she was able to track down with her genius detective skills by deducing the location of their next victims, who they randomly chose out of a phone book.

There was something about recognizing their vintage movie monster costumes and using that to find them, so I dunno, maybe she followed them there? But that begs the question of why she would wait until the group of armed killers had already broken into their victims house and were about to pull the trigger to burst in, putting innocent lives in danger, instead of just grabbing them at any time before that. But this is why I am not a nighttime costumed vigilante, I guess.

Anyway, once the villain arrives at the hospital and starts murdering police officers on his way up to the serial killer's room (the first of Gotham's finest gunned down after threatening to shoot the bad guy with a cup of coffee), Batgirl springs into action, riding her motorcycle to the scene of the crime and... kinda slowly driving it into the elevator as she asks people to move out of her way. Then once the elevator reaches her floor, she tears out, batcycle and all to drive into the room, hop off, and then become paralyzed with fear as the villain points a gun at her, setting off her PTSD over the Joker (because it's not like she hadn't worked through the trauma years ago or anything) and letting Mr. Final Destination roll the serial killer, hospital bed and all, out the window. Then Detective Not!Montoya calls her a murderer and the book ends.

It's like, I didn't think it would get worse, and then I'd turn the page and there it would be, getting all sorts of worse.

Other stuff:
Jim Gordon has apparently invested in a heavy supply of Just For Men: Ginger Edition.
How Babs got her groove back is not explained.
Where either of the preceding Batgirls went is not explained.
Where Barbara's costume and array of gadgets came from is not explained, as none of them were part of Steph's arsenal.

This book will run for years.

[Fifthfiend]

I guess I could have posted about the comic where Superman picks fights with the police here in this thread, but that actually looks like it has maybe a tiny, tiny chance of being sort of slightly good, so, you know.
So far all answers from DC editorial have boiled down to "Everything happened except the stuff that didn't."

NEW READURZ

JOMPONG NONN

[Fifthfiend]

He goes up to a crooked old rich guy and hangs him off a balcony, suge knight style.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Next up he should like go join like the journalists union and beat up strike breakers. That would be awesome.

[IHateMakingNames]

So far all answers from DC editorial have boiled down to "Everything happened except the stuff that didn't."
This is the part that confused me for a bit. I thought it was like Ultimate Marvel where they take all the basic outlines but start over from the beginning. But they are just resetting the comic numbers and are allowed to retcon anything they want. Nothing is really new or accessible about this, since you still have 20 former Batman side kicks running around or being dead. I feel like new readers will be confused a lot because there will be back story that likely won't get explained.

[Dracorion]

I'm not sure I like how the timeline seems to be all over the place. Action Comics is just starting Superman's career, but in Justice League he's already in a proper costume, and then in JLI the Justice League is recognized as an actual team.

I dunno, it feels like they just want to be able to go "OMG BATMAN AND DICKROBIN" while still keeping Nightwing going. Or having more Joker stories after they just killed the Joker in Detective Comics.

Instead of, y'know, properly starting from scratch. But I guess that's no surprise.

Also, apparently they're merging Wildstorm with the DCU? I didn't hear about that.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Here's what I was able to pick up today at the shop:

- Batgirl: Meh. They turned Barbara into a victim. Totally got the character wrong right off the bat. Pun intended!
- Animal Man: Best book on the stands this week. The art is gorgeous.
- Justice League International: Meh.
- Action Comics: Actually pretty good. Supes in this isn't reactionary in the slightest. He goes out and does stuff of his own accord.
- Static Shock: It's alright but lacks a "wow factor."
- Green Arrow: Not bad in the slightest. Still not the biggest JT Krull fan but he's delivered on the first issue (it's a little too on the nose, though, about Queen Industries being DC's Apple).
- Swamp Thing: Pretty good. I've never read the character before but it seems really interesting.

[Nique]

I got to meet the artist of Justice League International, Aaron Lopresti, at my local Things From Another World tonight. He signed issue 1 for us and also did a sketch of Batgirl and one of Harely Quinn for us for free.

Also they had free beer and homemade food so all in all I've had a pretty good day.

[Nique]

Yeah I have to say that I don't get it. Like it's not even that the police just misunderstand him but he actively taunts them.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Here's how back to basics Supes is in this new comic: He heard a woman screaming and went to her home where he found out her husband had been beating her nightly so he threw the guy out a window into the river where he broke a lot of bones.

This Superman is so proactive it's scaring me.

[Fifthfiend]

So I read Action Comics #1.

Yeah mods you can move this into the new 52 thread with all of DC's other shitty comics now.

[POS Industries]

Yeah, I figured I'd have to eventually.

[Fifthfiend]

Somebody please make Grant Morrison stop writing comics in bullet points.

[Jagos]

Gaddamn you Fifth, I can't rep you right now...

[Fifthfiend]

Either that or explain to him that if you want to do everything in your Action Comics #1 that Siegel/Schuster did in Action Comics #1, you gotta make the fuckin' panels smaller.

[Jagos]

He's too busy checking out Superman's package

http://forbiddenplanetblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/05/Grant%20Morrison%20FPNYC.jpg

Link (http://www.forbiddenplanetblog.com/2007/fp-nyc-grant-morrison-signing-pics/)

[Magus]

Figured I'd give my opinions on the ones I've read so far:

Batgirl -- This is going to be the most divisive one. You already had people who hated that they were having her overcome her paralysis and walk again after the Joker shot her (they kept that as canon, by the way, she has simply been through all the physical therapy, surgery, magical cantrips, etc. over the ensuing three years that would allow her to make a full physical recovery). Now you will have people disliking the fact that she continually fears being paralyzed again, and it makes her freeze at the climax of this comic, allowing new villain Mirror to murder his latest victim right in front of her. Now, Sevenshot is saying this gives her a "victim" mentality. Well, isn't that somewhat realistic? And how is it fulfilling when she eventually overcomes it if it isn't made an issue? They wanted to give her something to overcome, the fear of being shot and paralyzed again will be the thing. They have to have some sort of goal for their characters beyond "punch bad guy in the face". Bruce for instance always has all sorts of hang-ups with his parents and stuff (though he usually has to get a whiff of Scarecrow's poison to start hallucinting and lamenting his supposed failures). He overcomes them. Barbara will do the same.

Batwing -- I really enjoyed this one, if for nothing else but the art which is fantastic. You can tell a lot of real effort went into this one. They really wanted to give the debut of a new superhero a good showing. I can't say the plot revolving around this very original character is particularly original, but the concept of fighting bad guys in the Congo (which is apparently more of a savannah than jungle, despite that movie with the killer apes I saw) works fine for the character. Does he seem like Batman? Not really. He's a detective who investigates murders in his day job, I guess, which makes him more like Jim Gordon, if Jim Gordon were given a jetpack batsuit to fight crime with.

One thing I kind of disliked was the declaration of Massacre as his "archnemesis" by the creators. I kind of wish they had allowed an archnemesis to emerge gradually from the undoubtedly myriad villains they have come up with in advance for the character. I'm not sure if Kane and Finger figured on the Joker being Batman's archnemesis from day one--that kind of came about gradually when they later came up with interesting plotlines for the character. And Massacre doesn't seem very interesting at all in this debut. Sure, he murders a lot of people for unrevealed reasons. And he's apparently a much better fighter than Batwing since he pretty easily defeats him in the opening few pages (a flash-forward or the present, before we go back to "the beginning" of Batwing defeating a few drug dealers and beginning his first investigation of the grisly serial killer Massacre). But Massacre just seems like a psychopath, and without the dark humor of the Joker. There's nothing particularly interesting about him yet. Then again, he's only in about five pages of a 20 page book, so...

Anyway, I like Batwing and this is one I'll definitely be following.

Justice League International -- This one wasn't too bad. I have a vague idea of who Booster Gold is and he's kind of funny, so there's a little humor factor involved. I have a vague knowledge of the other superheroes on the team, too, so there's something to recognize here. This just seems like the same-old, same-old, though. They're even fighting monsters already. It's not as interesting as Justice League's number 1 where we're seeing the formation of the League and the paranoia of the police and government towards them. Here we actually see their response, which is to create a U.N.-controlled Justice League that can be controlled and directed by them (though undoubtedly this will cause conflict later).

Stormwatch -- Bleh. This was one of the more hyped ones, and I still don't know why. Maybe they though the concept of a group of superheroes that battles extraterrestrial threats would be an interesting concept. Let me just say this is no Psi-Lords (Psi Lord fans represent!). It's basically the same as the other two Justice League comics except with even more obscure heroes I've never even heard of except for their leader, Martian Manhunter. The plot is confusing and the looming threat not particularly fearsome seeming, a super-powered alien force with a motive that probably would have been best left as a "twist" later on, as opposed to just telling us it right out. That and the only hero that seemed interesting, the guy with the laser swords, is taken over by the alien parasite immediately. The main character is probably going to be Apollo but I don't know who Apollo is and why I should care (he seems like Superman if Superman actually went out of his way to kill people). I do like the last page, though, which is an interesting twist and set-up for the series. But I was so bored with this comic that I can't see myself really wanting to read number 2. It's pretty bad when I get bored in the middle of a comic that is only 25 pages long or whatever.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Figured I'd give my opinions on the ones I've read so far:

Batgirl -- This is going to be the most divisive one. You already had people who hated that they were having her overcome her paralysis and walk again after the Joker shot her (they kept that as canon, by the way, she has simply been through all the physical therapy, surgery, magical cantrips, etc. over the ensuing three years that would allow her to make a full physical recovery). Now you will have people disliking the fact that she continually fears being paralyzed again, and it makes her freeze at the climax of this comic, allowing new villain Mirror to murder his latest victim right in front of her. Now, Sevenshot is saying this gives her a "victim" mentality. Well, isn't that somewhat realistic? And how is it fulfilling when she eventually overcomes it if it isn't made an issue? They wanted to give her something to overcome, the fear of being shot and paralyzed again will be the thing. They have to have some sort of goal for their characters beyond "punch bad guy in the face". Bruce for instance always has all sorts of hang-ups with his parents and stuff (though he usually has to get a whiff of Scarecrow's poison to start hallucinting and lamenting his supposed failures). He overcomes them. Barbara will do the same.

I wouldn't be angry if she hadn't already gotten over all of this shit already! Recycling character arcs makes me... angry.

[Jagos]

No No... wrong universe.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

No No... wrong universe.

You talking about Stormwatch? Cause all of that Wildstrom stuff is being folded into the DCU along with Vertigo. I'm interested in seeing if Apollo and Midnighter retain their homosexuality and how prominent it stays.

[POS Industries]

I wouldn't be angry if she hadn't already gotten over all of this shit already! Recycling character arcs makes me... angry.
I would've been more angry about it if it had been the only problem with the book.

[Magus]

I wouldn't be angry if she hadn't already gotten over all of this shit already! Recycling character arcs makes me... angry.

Probably due to the reboot they figured they could get away with just going ahead and rehashing it. It's not like they haven't rehashed character hang-ups 900 times with all their other heroes without even the excuse of a reboot.

Some more impressions:

Action Comics #1 -- Okay, I don't necessarily have a problem with the younger Clark thing, where they focus on his human side (although I do question the need for a separate Superboy comic at this juncture). I'm just not into copy-pasting Peter Parker onto Clark Kent. Works for a newspaper, has problems paying his rent and balancing his life with his superheroics, dresses like a nebbish outside his superhero gig, where have I heard this before? Also, I don't necessarily have a problem with his costume being blue jeans and a t-shirt. But blue jeans, a t-shirt, and a big red cape? It's idiotic.

Oh, and Lex Luthor is drawn pretty badly. When I think Lex Luthor I don't think a fat baby face like is going on here.

All that said, the plot was fine (outside of the Peter Parker parts). I'm glad they're actually bringing up the government paranoia from the beginning so that Cadmus/Checkmate (whatever they're calling it now) makes sense later, since originally it seemed a bit out of the blue, since everybody but crooks seems to like Superman. I like what Lex Luthor does here, as well, even if I don't like how he's drawn.

Detective Comics #1 -- So there's this guy cutting off people's faces and wearing them, or whatever. He even cuts off the Joker's face, who's totally into it. Yeah, I dunno where this is going. Batman v. Buffalo Bill, I guess.

You talking about Stormwatch? Cause all of that Wildstrom stuff is being folded into the DCU along with Vertigo. I'm interested in seeing if Apollo and Midnighter retain their homosexuality and how prominent it stays.

If we're just going to go by Midnighter's costume, it appears to be alive and well!

Interested to see what they're going to do with Grifter who is getting his own comic.

Anyway, I'm actually thinking about..."acquiring" the new Hawk and Dove just to see if Rob Liefeld has created any new monstrosities he calls "art" to give me a good laugh.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Spoiler tag that shit! Spoiler tag that shit!

I haven't read Detective Comics yet cause some dick bought all the copies at the shop!

EDIT:

Action Comics #1 -- Okay, I don't necessarily have a problem with the younger Clark thing, where they focus on his human side (although I do question the need for a separate Superboy comic at this juncture). I'm just not into copy-pasting Peter Parker onto Clark Kent. Works for a newspaper, has problems paying his rent and balancing his life with his superheroics, dresses like a nebbish outside his superhero gig, where have I heard this before?

Oh, I dunno... The original Action Comics #1?

Seriously though, a lot of the issues you seem to have with the new series have been integral parts of the series for a while. Well, probably not the rent thing but he's a new transplant into Metropolis so it makes sense for him to have a little trouble adapting.

Also, I don't necessarily have a problem with his costume being blue jeans and a t-shirt. But blue jeans, a t-shirt, and a big red cape? It's idiotic.

He's a farm boy from Kansas, not a fashion designer.

Oh, and Lex Luthor is drawn pretty badly. When I think Lex Luthor I don't think a fat baby face like is going on here.

I didn't like his design at all. And I wasn't too happy about his inclusion at all but kudos to him turning a train full of innocent passengers into a bullet!

All that said, the plot was fine (outside of the Peter Parker parts). I'm glad they're actually bringing up the government paranoia from the beginning so that Cadmus/Checkmate (whatever they're calling it now) makes sense later, since originally it seemed a bit out of the blue, since everybody but crooks seems to like Superman. I like what Lex Luthor does here, as well, even if I don't like how he's drawn.

I think what really works with this issue is that Superman is a dick! He's just a dick throughout this issue and it works perfectly because he's a dick that ultimately means well. I'm very interested in seeing how he goes from basically (keeping with the standard biblical analogies) Samson to Jesus/Moses.

[Nique]

He's a farm boy from Kansas, not a fashion designer.

Drawn by a supposedly experienced artist. It just doesn't look good.

I'm an activist! And I'm gonna show the walls of my apartment who's boss!

Mmhm. The pixie-girl roommate. A little annoying.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Drawn by a supposedly experienced artist. It just doesn't look good.

I might be alone on this one but I absolutely love the costume he has. I think it's nowhere as good as the real costume but it's miles ahead of the Jim Lee redesign.

Mmhm. The pixie-girl roommate. A little annoying.

Dude, after re-reading Batgirl I've decided to drop that book like a bad habit.

[POS Industries]

Mmhm. The pixie-girl roommate. A little annoying.
To be fair, though, I found her less problematic than the plot point that moving out of her dad's place, which is apparently Barry Allen's fault for erasing the fact that this had already happened a long, long time ago from history.

Also not mentioned in my earlier review: When Detective McSucksatherjob was calling Babs a murderer and pointing a gun at her, the actual murderer was still standing there, also pointing a gun at Babs.

It's like everyone involved with every step of the creation of this book was drunk.

[Fifthfiend]

It's like everyone involved with every step of the creation of this book was drunk.

I don't know if this should seem more or less true because Gail Simone wrote it.

[POS Industries]

I don't know if this should seem more or less true because Gail Simone wrote it.
Well, she's certainly written worse. Though that, too, could have been as a result of Gail's here-to-fore unknown battle with alcoholism.

[Magus]

Regarding Detective McSucksatherjob from Batgirl, obviously she's misplacing the blame but I'm pretty sure Mirror was long gone at that point that she calls Babs a murder. He ran away after pushing that dude out the window.

Also I have to go look at this roommate again, I must have completely ignored her.

Also I saw little reason to spoiler-tag Detective Comics because so little happens. It is seriously pretty pointless, but sorry if you had it spoiled. At least take comfort in that it's been statistically proven that spoilers don't really reduce enjoyment in a recent scientific study!

EDIT: Hur hur hur, FIGHT THE POWER!~

http://img43.imageshack.us/img43/3673/batgirlroommatehateswal.jpg

ANOTHER EDIT: Haha I guess Mirror is still there at the end of the comic. Herpa derp.

[Fifthfiend]

Though that, too, could have been as a result of Gail's here-to-fore unknown battle with alcoholism.

This is basically what I couldn't factor out, yeah.

Like, could you call that? I couldn't call that.

[Nique]

On the image Magus linked - Who whines about not 'letting strangers back in'?

I dunno, I liked the Batgirl comic overall but there were a few oddball things in it that kept it from being super great.

[POS Industries]

It'd be nice to have someone to have tea with.
What, Steph and Cass didn't like tea or something?

[Magus]

Well I'm not sure if you read The Killing Joke but the basic lesson to that entire novel was "don't answer your front door without looking through the little eyehole thingy first". So she distrusts strangers, I guess.

Yeah, it's a pretty big stretch here. I see this whole thing lasting like three issues before they move onto some new character hangup.

[POS Industries]

No, I get what they're going for there, my concern is how much of this is writer amnesia versus how much of the last few years of Barbara's life has actually been deleted? Because, her understandable difficulty in regards to letting new people into her life aside, she actually does have a pretty decent circle of close friends.

She's not some friendless loner. She already has people to have tea with.

[Magus]

SUPER SECRET BONUS REVIEW OF "OLD 52" SUPERMAN BEYOND #0 FROM LAST MONTH:

Okay, this comic proves that 'ol softy Superman is way better than young edgy Clark from Action Comics. Not only was the story great (with plenty of lampshading of The Death of Superman) with plenty of action and a Superman who is human in and out of the tights (well, black and white jumpsuit, in this case), and capable of sympathy even towards brutal criminals, it ties in with Batman Beyond so well with the final conversation between Clark and Bruce in the graveyard.

I dunno if it's just me, but I've found Batman Beyond to be better than pretty much every other comic I've been reading, and this new Superman Beyond comic illustrates exactly why. It's pretty much a perfect comic book without even seeming to try to be a perfect comic book, like DeFalco and Frenz know exactly what makes a comic book tick along perfectly and hit every beat with precision, like the Clock Kings of the comic book world.

Well anyway I'll quit blathering.

EDIT: Here's a review. (http://insidepulse.com/2011/08/26/superman-beyond-0-by-tom-defalco-and-ron-frenz/) CAUTION: He spoils the basic plot. Might want to skip that whole middle section there.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Okay, this comic proves that 'ol softy Superman is way better than young edgy Clark from Action Comics.

Whoa. Nobody said young, asshole Supes was better. I for one dug the idea of him not coming into the superhero gig fully formed like it tends to happen. Supes has got to start somewhere so that he can become the big blue boy scout. And oddly enough, I didn't like Superman Beyond that much. It felt a bit uneven.

[Magus]

It's uneven sure but so were the vast majority of the other comic books I've read. I based it more on my love for the story and how they actually managed to meaningfully establish characters like Mangler in only 44 pages, especially since he is just a one-shot villain ala Doomsday (who is a shell of a character compared to what they accomplished here despite both serving a similar purpose), while simultaneously commenting on both Superman and Batman's personalities and pasts and older storylines like The Death of Superman and so on...I dunno. Like this is the kind of concept that actually feels like it was aiming more for graphic novel territory but managed to get it done in about the equivalent of two comics pretty darn well. I wish they'd been given a graphic novel length stage, though, since then it could be paced even better and allow the writers to really go for broke.

[Fifthfiend]

So hey POS!

How 'bout that Amanda Waller, eh what?

[POS Industries]

So hey POS!

How 'bout that Amanda Waller, eh what?
I'm honestly under the impression that DC is trying to get someone to burn down their offices so they can cash in on the insurance, because it's the only way they can make any money at this point.

[Fifthfiend]

Hahaha wow, I only disbelieve that because it seems like far too rational of a business plan for me to imagine DC Comics pursuing it.

EDIT: God now I'm retroactively pissed off that they didn't cast CCH in their shitty Green Lantern movie.

Even if Angela Bassett ostensibly was one of the passably good-ish things about it.

[POS Industries]

DC announces that Batgirl is to appear in Birds of Prey #4, neglects to inform Gail Simone. (http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/09/14/the-problems-with-feeling-ownership-of-wfh-characters/)

Colorist incorrectly references Stephanie Brown's costume because "what do you mean 'there's more than one Batgirl'?! I don't read any of this shit!"

[Jagos]

It's becoming more and more clear, that the best way for DC to make money is to have executive shut the fuck up, get out of the way of the artists and writers, and just worry about the legal stuff.

[Fifthfiend]

It's becoming more and more clear, that the best way for DC to make money is to have executive shut the fuck up, get out of the way of the artists and writers, and just worry about the legal stuff.

"The executives" are like... Geoff Johns and Jim Lee.

...Like it seems more to me like if whatever other executives there got out of the way of the writers and artists, they'd get terrible writing and art, because their writers and artists are terrible.

edit:


T. Says:
September 14th, 2011 at 10:56 am

Wow, you know a transgression by DC must be really bad for Gail to break her usual consistent apologist stance toward the company.


Random Newsarama commenter, I'm repping you in my heart.

edit:

DC announces that Batgirl is to appear in Birds of Prey #4, neglects to inform Gail Simone. (http://blog.newsarama.com/2011/09/14/the-problems-with-feeling-ownership-of-wfh-characters/)

Colorist incorrectly references Stephanie Brown's costume because "what do you mean 'there's more than one Batgirl'?! I don't read any of this shit!"

Are the lines on that even how Babsgirl's costume is supposed to look?

[POS Industries]

Are the lines on that even how Babsgirl's costume is supposed to look?
Pretty much. (http://www.dadsbigplan.com/2011/09/comic-rack-new-52-batgirl-1/) You just don't notice it quite as much because of the whole gold on black on even more black color scheme of Babs' costume.

However, what is seen on the cover of BoP #4 is undoubtedly what Steph's costume would have looked like if she'd remained in the role post-reboot.

EDIT: So, you know, the poor girl dodged a bullet on that one, at least.

EDIT EDIT: Unlike Babs.

[Fifthfiend]

Pretty much. (http://www.dadsbigplan.com/2011/09/comic-rack-new-52-batgirl-1/) You just don't notice it quite as much because of the whole gold on black on even more black color scheme of Babs' costume.

Ah okay, yeah.

I guess I still can't blame the colorist too hard because the padded/lined look was originally from Steph's costume (and was also a million times better looking there but w/ev).

EDIT: So, you know, the poor girl dodged a bullet on that one, at least.

EDIT EDIT: Unlike Babs.

Thank goodness it wasn't a drill.

[Jagos]

...Like it seems more to me like if whatever other executives there got out of the way of the writers and artists, they'd get terrible writing and art, because their writers and artists are terrible.



This is DC... I already had lowered expectations.

[POS Industries]

Meanwhile, in Batwoman, this reference happened and quite frankly I'm not sure which thread to post it in.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Holy socks

[Ecks]

What the fuck is Doc Scratch doing in the DC universe? Hussie's gone for a couple of weeks and he's already moving on to other projects, trying to bring Lord English into DC continuity... guy gets around.

[Magus]

BTW perhaps I didn't look closely enough at those old Detective Comics I was reading but was Kane made of pure ivory in those ones like she is in the new Batwoman?

Also something like three or four pages of that particular 16 page comic was devoted to looking at her and whatsherface stripping. Not sure how empowering that is to the LGBT community or whatever. :D

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Picked up a couple of books this week.

- Batwoman: Must buy.
- Detective Comics: It's a good book. It's not great but it's definitely on the higher end in terms of quality from writer/artist Tony Daniel. Bruce seems like a better fit for Daniel than Dick so it might be worth the read to people who didn't care too much for his run on Batman.
- Batman and Robin: Do you like Damien Wayne? If you do, buy this book. If you don't, leave this on the stand and pretend he doesn't exist. The dynamic in this book isn't as good as it was between Dick and Damien but it has promise. I for one will be buying this book monthly.
- Batwing: Oh, boy. I'm not really sure what to think of this book. The art is good, really fits the setting, and the writing's not bad but it doesn't leave a lasting impression. This book could get really good in a couple of issues or it could get really bad. Flip through it a bit at the store and see if the first couple pages grab you.

[Magus]

I think the most ironic thing about Batwoman was she called the other chick's original costume "too flashy".

That said, it was good.

EDIT: Flamebird? Is that her name?

[Token]

Not particularly digging Batwoman, but I'm not gonna give up on it.

I don't see where the Batman books fit into the new timeline. At all.

Action Comics was certainly a thing. Enjoyed it at the time, but it wasn't amazing.

Static was whelming, but I'll give it time. Definitely gonna keep reading it.

Legion Lost... I don't know those characters, and I don't know why I should care about them at all. Won't continue with them.

Green Lantern was alright, I guess. Sort of a mess. Hoping it'll get better, but it won't.

Red Lantern shows promise. I'll continue to read it.

Hawk and Dove: dear fuck, I'm back in the 90's. Probably won't continue.

Animal Man: Not what I was expecting. Got me to read Morrison's run. Also not what I was expecting. Sticking with it.

Stormwatch: got bored, stopped reading about seven pages in.

Superboy: legitimately enjoyed it, which I didn't expect at all.

Batwing: Pretty brilliant.

Suicide Squad: WHAT. I'll probably keep reading it, because I hate myself.

Swamp Thing: knowing jack shit about the character, it didn't really grab me, but, like Animal Man, made me want to read the original. I'll be checking that out later.

O.M.A.C.: I need to read that at some point.

Justice League: very meh.

Men of War: It's a nice change to see a non-cape comic that deals with capes.That wording didn't make sense, but idgaf.

Demon Knights: Enjoyed it. Worth reading.

Green Arrow: utterly unable to give the slightest of damns.

JLI: I was excited to see Guy. Then Guy left. Now I'm disappointed.

Still need to read the rest, but I'm looking forward to Blue Beetle. Naturally, this means it will suck ass.

[Magus]

I know what you mean about Men of War, since it reminded me of Gotham Central, a bunch of normals have to deal with the supernatural and superheroes, at least tangentially. But instead of cops they're Green Berets/Navy Seals.

I kind of think whoever's writing it has got a bit of a hard-on for military stuff, though. "THE PEACE CORPS WAS ALL WELL AND GOOD, BUT I REALIZED TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE I NEEDED AN ASSAULT RIFLE!" lololol Jingoism. But the Navy Seals back-up was a lot more thoughtful than the Sgt. Rock main story, so...

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Alright:

- Nightwing #1: Really good. Pick it up.
- Batman #1: Excellent. Must buy.
- Red Hood and the Outlaws #1: Good art, very lackluster writing. Skip it if you're trying to save on cash.

[Magus]

Hahaha I kind of get why people hated the new Suicide Squad, but I dunno, that was just kind of too zany not to have been done entirely on purpose, like "so bad it's good" or something.

Plus I love King Shark and hope that he gets his own comic, that would be the best thing ever.

I am a bit confused as to why Amanda Waller was rewritten from a stolid, paunchy, ruthless 50-year-old no-nonsense bureaucrat to an attractive 30-something with a sassy attitude (yes I can guess that much from one panel folks).

So yeah it's pretty terrible but it's kind of like the best kind of terrible you could actually make into a comic, sort of.

Deathstroke 1: I like that they had the balls to make Deathstroke an actual completely amoral badass. Like he is seriously freaking badass looking and acting. Also the whole Clayface-DNA mutant thingsgave me an intense Marvel feeling, like that's the sort of crossover-universe thing I'd expect from a Marvel comic.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I am a bit confused as to why Amanda Waller was rewritten from a stolid, paunchy, ruthless 50-year-old no-nonsense bureaucrat to an attractive 30-something with a sassy attitude (yes I can guess that much from one panel folks).

Green Lantern movie. That's why.

[Magus]

Oh dear god you're bringing back the flashbacks I just remembered that why would you do that THE PAIN

EDIT:

This version is what I'm talking about, folks:

http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/743/newamandawallercensored.jpg

Like seriously seeing this version of Amanda Waller say this just creates a huge "do not compute" in my brain (NOTE SPOILERS):

http://img59.imageshack.us/img59/4360/newamandawaller.jpg

I mean this was the woman (non-canonically, I guess, but still) who wanted to make a new Batman by purposefully killing a kid's parents. It takes someone a bit older and sterner to make proclamations like this!

This is the Amanda Waller who stole my heart with her bloodthirsty ruthlessness:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ef/Amanda_waller.JPG

[The Sevenshot Kid]

- All-Star Western: Best book on the stands this week. Jonah Hex teams up with Amadeus Arkham to track Gotham's first serial killer and find out they're in for more trouble than they though.
- Superman: This book has some seriously mediocre writing. It's embarrassing that this writing would be in one of DC's flagship titles. But it has a really good hook with what's going on in Clark Kent's life lately. George Perez isn't a bad writer so there's hope that he can salvage this book.
- Aquaman: Decent introduction to the character that makes him instantly accessible and likable. There's a new mystery set-up and some pretty funny bits aimed at Aquaman detractors. Give this book a chance.
- Justice League Dark: Good art, messy script. Thumb through it at the store and see if it catches yo but you probably shouldn't buy it.
- The Flash: Best art I've seen so far this week with some good writing to match. I'm not happy with a change made to the character but it has my attention.

[Viridis]

Aaron Diaz redesigns some heroes (http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/10830387057/5-essential-superhero-redesigns). I would definitely pay to read some of these.

[Fifthfiend]

Everyone thinks they're being really, really clever by turning Doctor Strange's cape into a coat, instead of just like, being the ten millionth person to turn Doctor Strange's cape into a coat.

The Ms. Marvel look is interesting but I think the character would get lost under alla that, and if you're gonna call out Starfire's costumes for being impractical - and god knows i'm not disagreeing here - you cannot purport to fix this problem by having this woman who fights crime and punches spacemonsters wear a miniskirt. I mean, come on.

EDIT: Actually I take that last bit back, I think it's just the way he drew it that makes it look awkward, it could probably work okay.

EDIT: Re: his Superman redesign, someone should really let him know that Martian Manhunter already exists.

[Viridis]

I confess that I'm just in love with Diaz's art style (mostly the coloring/shading) and am completely blind to everything else.

[Fifthfiend]

At least 50% of that post was my reflexive need to poop all over anything Aaron Diaz does so it all evens out, really.

[Token]

Am I the only person who doesn't mind the way Superman's identity used to be handled? It wasn't "just glasses" like people say, it was mannerisms, posture, voice, and all sorts of stuff. Look at All-Star Superman for example. That's not my only problem with Diaz's design, but eh.

As for this week's books, they were... welp. I sort of enjoyed New Guardians, but I'm a sucker for Kyle and the Skittle Lanterns. Flash was brilliant. And I would have liked Aquaman. I wanted to. But it treats the idea that he's useless like it's common knowledge in the DCnU, when it's only said in the real world by people who don't actually read anything with Aquaman. It's even more ridiculous in the comic, because this is a man who was one of the founding members of the Justice League. The entire time, I was just wondering when the hell Marvel's obnoxious pedestrians crossed into DC.

Teen Titans was okay. Probably gonna keep with it, but that's just because I really enjoy Superboy's writing.

Superman was... decent? One of those things where I enjoyed it at the time, but upon thinking about it later I just felt ambivalent.

The Dark Knight: sweet zombie christ that was horrible.

All-Star Western: Please, DC, take my money.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Flash was brilliant.

But how do you feel about the young Miss Iris West?

And I would have liked Aquaman. I wanted to. But it treats the idea that he's useless like it's common knowledge in the DCnU, when it's only said in the real world by people who don't actually read anything with Aquaman. It's even more ridiculous in the comic, because this is a man who was one of the founding members of the Justice League. The entire time, I was just wondering when the hell Marvel's obnoxious pedestrians crossed into DC.

I'll admit that whole thing was ridiculous but they kind of had to do it since these books are trying to be accessible to new readers. A new reader doesn't know Aquaman is the shit so they had to tear down the classic complaints.


All-Star Western: Please, DC, take my money.

Why couldn't this be the Jonah Hex movie?

[Token]

But how do you feel about the young Miss Iris West?

I'll be honest, I never really payed much attention to Barry. Wally was my Flash. And while I understand that breaking up Barry and Iris is big, I'm not invested enough in the characters to mind.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I'll be honest, I never really payed much attention to Barry. Wally was my Flash. And while I understand that breaking up Barry and Iris is big, I'm not invested enough in the characters to mind.

I've never been a very big Flash fan myself either (save for his appearances in the Justice League) but I started reading some of Barry's old stories a while back. He's not nearly as fun as Wally but I love the contrast between his powers and his way of thinking. And I love seeing married superheroes. It's just such an interesting dynamic that a lot of writers try and cop out of (I demand your blood Quesada!) because it's more layered than the usual superhero/love interest relationship. This is why I loved Animal Man so much, it didn't cop out on the family side of things.

[POS Industries]

Aaron Diaz redesigns some heroes (http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/10830387057/5-essential-superhero-redesigns). I would definitely pay to read some of these.
The Wonder Woman design is neat, though I'd lose the stupid statue thing.

Superman's costume doesn't need to be redesigned, the whole purpose of it is supposed to be an inspirational icon that stands for something greater and basically no one has figured out how to do that better than the classic design, so they might as well stop trying. The Justice Lords redesign was the only good one, and that only worked because it was intended to communicate a complete departure from the Superman who stood for truth and justice.

Starfire idea was okayish. It doesn't fix the problem, but it is an improvement, though it's hard to do much with a character who was designed to be nothing more than the "hot chick" in both literal and figurative senses. It says a lot that the only really well-received design of her character is the one that's toned down for a younger audience.

Really, the only Ms. Marvel redesign I ever liked was when they just said "fuck it" and gave her powers to Rogue.

Everyone thinks they're being really, really clever by turning Doctor Strange's cape into a coat, instead of just like, being the ten millionth person to turn Doctor Strange's cape into a coat.
Probably because it's a completely obvious fix and Marvel should go ahead and do it already.

[Magus]

Well regarding Aquaman I never realized he was bulletproof. That shit was never advertised. So he's like Superman who can breathe underwater and talk to whales and stuff.

Can't fly, though.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Well regarding Aquaman I never realized he was bulletproof. That shit was never advertised. So he's like Superman who can breathe underwater and talk to whales and stuff.

Can't fly, though.

Aquaman's real power is landing the hottest woman in the DCU.

[Nique]

Well regarding Aquaman I never realized he was bulletproof.

I always thought it was implied that he was really dense. As in he can live under miles and miles of pressure.

Also um, he's stupid. hurrhurr

[Fifthfiend]

New News in Aaron Diaz asking What If (http://www.comicsalliance.com/2011/10/04/justice-league-redesign-aaron-diaz/): the entire JLA were made up of Aaron Diazes?

EDIT: His Powergirl concept is actually pretty good, although mainly because he's doing a near-total lift of Galatea from JLU, but Galatea from JLU was an excellent idea that writers should totally lift so I mean hey go for it.

[Magus]

I always thought it was implied that he was really dense. As in he can live under miles and miles of pressure.

That would imply that comic book readers regularly apply science to their comic book readings, something one has to explicitly not do to enjoy the vast majority of comic books.

Plus if we're gonna get all sciencey let's figure he has a series of bladders throughout his body with which he equalizes his inner and outer pressure at different depths! This is far more amusing.

[Fifthfiend]

That would imply that comic book readers regularly apply science to their comic book readings, something one has to explicitly not do to enjoy the vast majority of comic books.

Plus if we're gonna get all sciencey let's figure he has a series of bladders throughout his body with which he equalizes his inner and outer pressure at different depths! This is far more amusing.

Accepting bullshit pseudoscience is as time-honored a comic tradition as ignoring actual real-life science.

[Magus]

Accepting bullshit pseudoscience is as time-honored a comic tradition as ignoring actual real-life science.

You mean there is some kind of scientific basis behind hurricanes, not just God's wrath?

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Action Comics #2 fucking killed it! Holy shit, that was a good book.

[POS Industries]

Aaron Diaz really wants a job at DC. (http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/11174072014/rebooting-dcs-villains)

And if his ideas weren't somehow even worse than what DC's doing, was actually able to maintain a proper work schedule, and had any idea how to execute a natural panel layout, he probably would be a decent pick to illustrate one of their books.

As it stands right now I'd really prefer he just get on with working on his own damn comic already and quit trying to tell other people how to do a job he appears to know nothing about.

[Kim]

Every origin I read seemed really terrible, and half of them were ~mad scientists~ man what the fuck is this shit.

[POS Industries]

Because the only origins he knows how to write are ~mad scientists~. It's the whole premise of Dresden Codak.

Apparently no one told him that the Ultra-Humanite already exists when he was doing his Grodd redesign.

[Fifthfiend]

He put those leather professor-patches on Lex's coat.

What the fuck kind of Lex Luthor wears the leather professor-patches on his coat?

EDIT: Giganta kinda works.

EDIT:

Huntress is in there

But like this invalidates all of them, really.

[POS Industries]

EDIT: Giganta kinda works.
In fairness, it's kinda hard to make anything Wonder Woman related worse.

[Fifthfiend]

In fairness, it's kinda hard to make anything Wonder Woman related worse.

I'd agree except he already did that!

[POS Industries]

I'd agree except he already did that!
I said it's hard, not impossible!

[Fifthfiend]

Diaz just makes being terrible look so easy.

[POS Industries]

Well, he's a good artist, and I admit that I do enjoy Dresden Codak despite its flaws.

But I sure as hell don't want to see him writing anything else. Ever.

[Kim]

I think I'm less bugged that this person thinks that their ideas would be improvements and more angry that there are probably a lot of people who agree with him.

[Fifthfiend]

Well, he's a good artist

I think this is what makes the terribleness stand out. It's so well-presented.

[Fifthfiend]

In non-Diaz news I guess Paul Levitz is writing a Huntress comic wherein Helena wears her good costume and kicks the shit out of child slavers.

So that's one DC comic I actually kind of want to buy.

fuck

[Betty Elms]

It's cute how Diaz's apparent opinion on what's wrong with superhero comics is that there isn't enough pandering to nerds.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Diaz doesn't know his ass from his elbow when it comes to DC. He's going for a sort of Rocketeer inspired style and it just doesn't work with everything. That and he has a fundamental misunderstanding of most every single DC character. Seriously, how do you fuck up Gorilla Grod?

[Satan's Onion]

Wait. Why does Lex Luthor look less like Superman's nemesis and more like a professor who gives lots of "extra credit" to co-eds who make "appointments" with him in his car. Why is that.

On topic, very broadly speaking, I just started reading Transmetropolitan. It's pretty awesome.

[Nique]

In non-Diaz news I guess Paul Levitz is writing a Huntress comic wherein Helena wears her good costume and kicks the shit out of child slavers.

So that's one DC comic I actually kind of want to buy.

fuck

Huntress was not bad. Like... obviously pretty harsh subject matter and killing dudes but as far as I know Huntress has always pretty much done that. It was a good read anyhow.

[Magus]

I would just like to point out that most criticisms made here of Diaz were actually covered in his write-ups below. For instance, Fifth said "Someone should tell Diaz that his outfit for Superman is already Martian Manhunter's." In his write-up on his Superman outfit he points out something like "it's one half something something, one half Martian Manhunter."

On his write-up for Lex Luthor, he points out that he wants him "to look like Steve Jobs or Bill Gates". Hey, who wore tweedy jackets with leather elbow patches? Steve Jobs.

Not saying these are good! Most of them are pretty terrible. Just that he does indeed explain his designs if you bother to read it.

BTW what is Dresden Codak, anyway? I have never heard of this guy and I think I just heard of Dresden Codak tangentially.

[POS Industries]

BTW what is Dresden Codak, anyway? I have never heard of this guy and I think I just heard of Dresden Codak tangentially.
It's a real science fiction webcomic. (http://dresdencodak.com/) Great art, questionable panel layout, once in a blue moon update schedule, amusing enough writing when it's not taking itself too seriously, and can be a tad hard to follow at times.

Just the author's kind of a douchebag.

[Magus]

So I read Hawk and Dove, there were only about three instances of horribly malformed feet and a couple of oddly shaped faces with eyes at the wrong height relative to each other, etc. Also the plot was only mildly incomprehensible, the characters only somewhat horrible, only nine instances of gritted teeth.

I think Rob Liefeld is losing his touch.

[01d55]

It's cute how Diaz's apparent opinion on what's wrong with superhero comics is that there isn't enough pandering to nerds.

If you ask me pandering to nerds qua bein' nerds would be a vast improvement of DC's present policy of pandering to nerds qua penises.

I mean let's be honest, if nerds liked the comics they publish they'd sell a hell of a lot more comics than they do now.

My favorite of his reboot posts is "DC reboots Dresden Kodak" because it's the most negative & a couple of years of exposure to Fifthfiend has left me favorably disposed towards unalloyed negativity.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Diaz is rapidly bleeding any and all credibility he has ever had. (http://dresdencodak.tumblr.com/post/11344418364/rebooting-batman)

Does this guy just not get it or what?

[Token]

(Batman’s been handled better than a lot of DC’s other properties)

I will never stop laughing.

EDIT:

okay even ignoring the rest of his horrible robin redesign

Batman and Robin should always have a Bad Cop/Good Cop relationship.
Screw that. Damian and Bruce are my second favorite Batman/Robin team.

[01d55]

1) Make each character unique, in both personality & appearance

2) Each character should have something unique and useful to offer (ie: no one should be redundant)
Diaz' reboot proposals aim principally at those who don't know who Damian Wayne is and probably never will. This isn't a revision of comics as currently published, it's doing in comics what every animated show based on comics does as a matter of course. Remember when animated Superman made Brainiac a robot? Before that Brainiac was a circus dude who was possessed by a genius alien and/or said alien himself.

The whole point of Diaz' approach to rebooting is to not take anything in current continuity for granted and only introduce characters that he judges necessary. The reason Diaz' Grodd is just like the present Ultra-Humanite is because Diaz thinks the Humanite is a better idea & Grodd is a better name, so of Grodd, Humanite, and Monsieur Mallah, only Grodd's name and Humanite's concept survives. You don't have three (plus an entire city) different talking gorillas, five robins, 5 green lanterns from earth, god alone knows how many flashes, etc. One of each.

DC has a villain who is a super-intelligent psychic gorilla whose origin is that he is an exiled felon from Gorilla City, whose entire population is intelligent psychic gorillas. They think people might have trouble taking that seriously, and their general solution is to make it a grimdarky city full of intelligent psychic gorillas. Diaz' approach is to jettison the idea of a super-intelligent psychic gorilla from psychic intellectual gorilla city and have an idea that's less "out-there."

There's a little Chris Sims in me who really likes the giant mind control space starfishes & Who's Whos of comicdom, but I'm not going to kid myself that anything short of burning continuity to the ground & starting over is going to change the fact that people who can bring themselves to continue to give a shit about comics are an ever-shrinking rump minority of nerds. There's just too fucking much OF it for even a nerd to keep track of, and they insist on having Slade Wilson continue to call himself "Deathstroke the Terminator" years after his first name has proven to be more credibly sinister & intimidating.

If someone actually pulled the trigger on a Diazboot of DC I would probably like it the way I like most of DCs animated continuities.

[Magus]

That Robin looks more like...a Red Arrow to me!

BUTTONS

[The Sevenshot Kid]

BUTTONS

That is, in a word, the summation of the problem with his redesigns.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

So... The New 52 seems to be a success. DC has dominated sales for the months that the reboot has been going on and the reception for a lot of the new series has been pretty positive with the good outweighing the bad. I've got twelve series from the relaunch on my pull-list with a couple other series that I pick up irregularly.

And I think we can form a consensus on which series suck. I'll start:

Superman is some wordy bullshit. The writing is mediocre at best but there's so much of it that drowns the art instead of letting it speak for itself. This is an awful series with bad writing and bad art.

Red Hood and the Outlaws is a concept with potential and awful writing that is painful to read if only because it wastes some good art.

[Token]

You missed Batgirl. How did you miss Batgirl?

[Magus]

Read Hawk & Dove. It will make everything else look amazing.

Like Rob Liefeld just straight up used mutant zombies as an antagonist completely unironically.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

You missed Batgirl. How did you miss Batgirl?

I quit reading after the first issue so I thought I best leave the thrashing up to someone who went a little further than me.

Really though, fuck that book for replacing Stephanie Brown's.

[POS Industries]

Half this thread has been me bitching about Batgirl. I really don't think we missed it.

[Fifthfiend]

I disagree about Red Hood only in that I dispute the notion that it ever had potential.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Half this thread has been me bitching about Aaron Diaz. I really don't think we missed it.

.

[POS Industries]

That's the other half.

EDIT: Welp, caught up with the last two issues of Batgirl and it's still pretty awful. The mysterious mystery of the new villain was revealed by issue 2, his motive is spectacularly ridiculous, none of the lingering questions regarding Babs' recovery, Steph's whereabouts, or basically anything involving the transition involved have still yet to be answered, Babs has failed to save anyone, and now she even has boy problems!

For reference, the two previous Batgirl #3s involved the chilling reveal of Cassandra Cain's past as a child assassin and Stephanie Brown powering out of a fear toxin hallucination to defeat the Scarecrow, whereas Barbara Gordon let dozens die in a terrorist attack and then spent the next half of the issue reminiscing about her past romance with Dick Grayson.

How far we've come.

[POS Industries]

John Hodgman weighs in on the new 52. (http://www.newsarama.com/comics/john-hodgman-new-52-111115.html)

There's very little here that hasn't been said by many other people for the past couple months already, but what I really wanted to highlight was this part:

I would draw your attention to Atomic Robo, if you haven’t read it already. I went on a Twitter-rant about this stuff, and one of my followers brought their books to my attention, and I bought them and enjoyed them a lot.

I like them because they’re really good storytelling, and when you go and read their little manifesto on their website, it’s very inspiring. Their first point of order is that they’re not going to do fan service, they’re not going to titillate, they’re not going to churn through issues and issues just to set up a big reveal – their first principal is they’re going to tell a good story in this issue.
Remember when DC fired Clevinger before he even had a chance to write anything? Good times.

[Nique]

Did John Hodgman seriously just plug Atomic Robo?

[POS Industries]

Yes, that is exactly what just happened.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

I disagree about Red Hood only in that I dispute the notion that it ever had potential.

I gave the series another chance today at the store...

It's pretty bland but there was a great character bit for Jason Todd in the last couple of pages. For some arbitrary reason, Jason had to give up his favorite memory up to some wizard for collateral. It was this time he got sick as Robin so he couldn't go out on patrol and Bruce surprised him by taking the night off and watching a movie with him until Jason fell asleep. It was pretty sweet. But then he doesn't go back to collect it. That moment showed how much potential a series based around Jason Todd has and why this one just doesn't live up to it.