Hatland Mafia

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Lovers is generally 1 town, 1 mafia so that makes sense.
None of my CL Gem suspicion was based on the moogle thing so that doesn't shakemy conclusion on that front.
Does mean that potentilly the cult has at least two dudes though.

[BahamutFlare]

We have no real proof that a cult exists. I mean CL attempting to cult Moogle and Moogle killing himself since he was mafia would be a likely explanation. Now lovers? While it could make sense...

I really don't like the Gem bandwagon guys and girls. I haven't seen any proof except for feelings. And feelings aren't proof except in YuGiOh or some other anime. At this point, I feel like I would agree with going to try to find the mafia. Maybe we can have someone investigate Gem.

Whatever happened to Greed, RO, Viridis, and Gregness? RO was active on D1 if I remember correctly, but D2, these 4 are just fading blips on the radar.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

The "proof" is that he is playing a game exactly like a cult leader would play it until he was called out. Like I'm going to bed so I'm not goign to go through and recut together all his posts but go read it yourself, particularly day 2 aat the start and day 1 just before and prior to snake blowup.
I was waiting for more till Sif buggered it up but tht is about as much proof as you get Day 2.
But shitis there even a bandwagon on gem? I don't think anyone is even voting for him.

All those quiet dudes need to post or we lynch them hard out.
RO has been active day 2 though and I think Greness too. Greed and Virid arethe realquietones.

[P-Sleazy]

I will say this about Cult Leaders. If they're ever successful at making it past the first few days, they tend to "disappear" on those days. Meaning not post much. I've enlisted that strategy before, and IC should remember it too, cause I culted him in that game.

A cult leader would typically be relatively inactive during most of the game (maybe post once or twice to show they're there) and let his culties do most, if not all, of the legwork in trying to lead town discussions. The ideal situation for a cult head though, is ALWAYS going to be to enlist the mafia. Cause for the price of one, he typically gets 4-5 people (assuming he then gradually cults them and doesn't bastardize his agreement by letting one of them take a lynch to distract town)

FOS: Silent people!

Also, this is quite possibly very close to my end for me if votes don't change soon!

Also, YAY! I tried to be helpful for post Sleazy death!

[Geminex]

In regards to hawk:
How did we not see this? It totally fits! The suicide, the hat (I'm guessing a townie-mafia couple), the fact that Kerensky (Lady in the sunhat) died on that night. This has gotta be it.

I mean, even if we forget the currents discussion: It makes a lot more sense for a desperate lover to kill himself than a culted mafiate. Kerensky died that night (assuming lovers in this case are male-female). It fits. So I'm gonna assume this is what happened.

And that kinda invalidates your argument, doesn't it, Sifright? Your point was that I knew that the cult had tried to convert moogle, and subsequently tried to suppress that by claiming that moogle had been suicidal. But if the cult wasn't involved, then I couldn't have know that in the first place.

I'm not saying there's no cult, and smarty still has points against me as well, but see, dude? People make mistakes. I was mistaken on the moogle thing, and so were a bunch of other people. But if the lovers thing turns out to be right, that wouldn't have been mailicious manipulation. We'd just have been us drawing the wrong conclusions. Mine were a bit more wrong, admittedly, but do you see?

As for your points, Smarty... again, I really don't know how to respond, since you didn't bring many examples. Well, except for this:
But basically it's day 1- he echoed both Snake and I arguments when we were the two most active posters in the thread. Then actively pulled away from my position after I gave a hint of what i thought he was doing.
Then early day 2 he engaged me early on, with our little theory discussion,once again walling himself off behind me. It's a consistent pattern of being with the primary posters (not with as in always agreeing with but ina ctive dialogue with) as a way of deflcting attention.
It is a hunch but that's what I'm going off.
In regards to echoing your arguments, I... guess I did, at times? I was uncertain in day 1, cause of a lack of information. And the conclusions you drew normally made a good deal of sense. Though even then, I stayed far away from your lynch on snake, even though you seemed quite in favor of that, and I even clashed with snake a few times.

Also, I can't find you giving me a hint that you thought I was doing anything. I probably just suck at searching, but I don't remember anything either.

And day 2, I posted my thoughts about the night post, yeah. I wanted to give input. Some of those thoughts coincided with your thoughts, some didn't. As for seeking dialogue with heavy posters... Are you sure you're not seeing a pattern that doesn't exist here? Cause if you're an active poster, and I am too, then we are, in many cases, going to be interacting with each other. And if you think I'm seeking dialogue with you more than is usual, I'm pretty sure you're one of the more experienced players here. And from what I've seen so far, I also think you're a townie. I guess I'm just looking for some good input.

You'll note I'm hesitant in my denial, because I'm not sure the trends I'm denying/justifying even exist. I'm just trying to be a productive townie.
But yeah, we can talk about this later.

As for RPG, you asked who I thought was suspicous, right? Well, I'm voting for P-sleazy at the moment, and despite all my apprehension, my vote's staying there. The roleclaim didn't sit well with me at all, in the context of his behavior, and his posting style and voting is really wonky.

I've FOS'd sifright cause of his constant hammering of, what I thought, was a very weak point, though I'll probably unFOS him later. He's zealous, but not necessarily malign.

Earl is a big target, because he's just been weird. I know we had the PO investigation, and there's probably no need to lynch him this soon, but I'll wait and see how things turn out.

I also gave RO a FOS, back when he said he was half-tempted to policy lynch sifright, but I'm withdrawing that. He's been okay otherwise.

Those are really my targets. I try not to declare anyone a suspect unless I'm really sure that they're planning something.

And with that, I, too, head to bed. Night all. Please don't lynch-train me while I sleep.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Guys, I just had a revelation (possibly). Been re-reading the thread, trying to make sense of it all, as well as looking over mafiascum again, came across something interesting, which kinda links in to something Karesh said a while back

I knew I liked something about you, Hawk. The suspicions I'd been having had no focus. But your suggestion matches the stimuli and the supposed power vacuum Moogle would have had.

[Mr.Bookworm]

If there's anyone who has not posted Today, you need to start posting Tomorrow, or I'm going to have to go through and gather player post counts, which is just a gigantic pain in the ass. So get posting.

Vote Count

P-sleazy - 5
Smarty
Bahamut
Ocelot
Geminex
Karesh

rpgdemon - 2
Sifright
B_real

Sifright - 1
IC

Geminex - 1
Ravashak

9 to lynch. ~6 hours left.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Go to the Forum Games page, and on the far right of the title of this thread is the current number of replies.
If you click that number it opens a small window which displays all the posters amount of posts.
Karesh 64
Sifright 64
rpgdemon 43
Solid Snake 38
Geminex 38
Smarty McBarrelpants 36
BahamutFlare 24
Fenris 23
Hawk 21
Bard The 5th LW 20
Kerensky287 18
Mr.Bookworm 18
Aldurin 17
P-Sleazy 17
Gregness 12
Ravashak 12
Revolving Ocelot 11
Inbred Chocobo 11
greed 10
Moogle0119 5
Viridis 3
Nikose Tyris 1
Shyria Dracnoir 1

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Technically mine would be 65, and now 66.
In your face, Sif.

[BahamutFlare]

I thought a LOT more people were voting for Gem. I guess I missed all the unvotes?

Smarty, I read your arguments and Gem's. But that's not proof. Or at least, I don't have the capabilities to understand how a cult should act like because this is my first game. Any theories I thought of were of a cultless mafia game. For me to be persuaded to chase a might be ghost, I'd need to see some hard proof.

[P-Sleazy]

as far as chasing down a "might be ghost", thats exactly what the Cult leader doesn't want you to do and counts on people like you to not go after them sing that logic. And from the looks of it, "hard proof" of cult existence is only gonna come in the form of a lynch or PO claim. Otherwise, you probably aren't gonna get much in the form of confirmation of alignment from night deaths.

[Revising Ocelot]

The Lovers thing makes sense. It's not unprecedented in NPF Mafia games, as Smarty would be all too eager to elaborate on (at great length).

The cult... I'm really not sure about. My only experience with them was in MLP Mafia, where they all got slaughtered in Night 1, and had their presence announced in the opening post. And I wasn't even in the game on Day 1 when they were actually alive. So like rpgdemon, I don't really know their tells - especially since I mostly skim read the thread for when I came in because there was a titanic number of posts. Given the evidence for Moogle's death not really fitting any sort of cult roles, I'm assuming for now there isn't one.

P-Sleazy hasn't convinced me to remove my vote from him, but I'm highly suspicious of Sifright now. Mainly his absolute certainty of Gem being a cult leader on presumptions... and then advocating not voting him? You let the cult live, they gain more power. That's self-destructive. And before anyone starts having a go at me again, NO I'M NOT ADVOCATING A POLICY LYNCH ON SIFRIGHT.

And Smarty? Don't call me active, that postcount speaks for itself. :(
I've been trying to avoid my usual verbal diaorrhea today on account of wanton stupidity early on.

[BahamutFlare]

If I had to chase something I knew existed or something that may or may not exist, I'd go for what I know exists.

Most games should tell you if there is or isn't a cult. They are a major party group. It'd be a dick move to have them and not even know they existed until midgame. That is my entire reasoning behind not solely focusing on cult. I get cult could be a big problem, but there's still 4 mafia assuming 25% of the population was mafia. Correct?

[P-Sleazy]

I don't want to die. At least not when people are more suspicious of there!

[P-Sleazy]

Well...I guess I'm dead! There ain't no mafia voting on me though.

[BahamutFlare]

He said 6 hours. And there's still 2 left. How do you know no mafia are on you?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

He said 6 hours. And there's still 2 left. How do you know no mafia are on you?

At a guess he's referring to the secret vote we saw the day before.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Vote Count same as before, ending this at 1:00 AM EST, the official time of Knit Cap Jesus.

[rpgdemon]

The Lovers thing makes sense. It's not unprecedented in NPF Mafia games, as Smarty would be all too eager to elaborate on (at great length).

Can someone explain the lovers role to me? Do they have an alternate win condition (Be the only two alive?), or something? Or is it just a thing for flavor?

[Aldurin]

Here (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Lovers)

[greed]

We have no real proof that a cult exists. I mean CL attempting to cult Moogle and Moogle killing himself since he was mafia would be a likely explanation. Now lovers? While it could make sense...

I really don't like the Gem bandwagon guys and girls. I haven't seen any proof except for feelings. And feelings aren't proof except in YuGiOh or some other anime. At this point, I feel like I would agree with going to try to find the mafia. Maybe we can have someone investigate Gem.

Whatever happened to Greed, RO, Viridis, and Gregness? RO was active on D1 if I remember correctly, but D2, these 4 are just fading blips on the radar.

Just going to say, I was more active earlier because I had more time. This thread has been going apeshit the past few days and I've largely only had a few hours very late in the evening to spend on the net. Expect another burst of activity after the night. I'm busy mid week. Probably should organise some time for this next week so I'm not mainly active at the start of the day. But yeah I'm not inactive, I just have limited periods of activity.

Honestly not sure who to vote for, but it's 10 minutes to deadline so it's definitely P-Sleazy going down, so not much point voting I guess. I'm gonna read all of this week's activity so I can come in fresh after the night and really step up.

[Mr.Bookworm]

As the day draws to a close, the gathered mob turns to their next victim. He attempts to run, but the crowd grabs him and drags him to the lamppost, ignoring his rants of conspiracies, before he is choked silent by the rope.

P-sleazy, the Man in the Tinfoil Hat, Paranoid Insomniac, self-aligned has been hanged.

Day 2 over, Night 2 begin. 48 hours to send in Night roles.

[Mr.Bookworm]

A new day, a new set of strange, grisly murders.

Two bodies lie in the streets, in a bizarre repetition of the previous day. One is a once elegant woman in a bergère, stabbed to death. The other is a child in a dunce cap, clutching a blood knife, with a single gunshot wound to his head. The child was also apparently mutilated after death, by some sort of brutal slashing instrument.

Hawk (shot to death) and Inbred Chocobo (stabbed to death) are DEAD.

Night 2 over, Day 3 start. 7 to lynch. ~96 hours to go.

Also, in the absence of a replacement, Shyria is modkilled and out of the game.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Do we have three killers? Previous we had shot, stab, mutilated. This time it seems we still have shot stab mutilated but two of them targetted the same person.
Like I thought Fenris was one of the night kills but were we wrong?
Here is Night post 1

As the day dawns, you wake up to a string of grisly murders and crimes.

A child wearing a propeller beanie was shot in the head from behind, and was found holding a bloody knife. He was found lying next to the body of a woman in a sunhat, brutally stabbed to death by the child.

A man wearing a trilby was later seen standing on top of the bridge, before jumping off. His trilby later washed ashore, and he is presumed dead.

A man wearing goggles was found in his home/laboratory on the edge of town, in several pieces, hacked to death.

In addition, there was a break-in at the home of Aldurin, although nothing appears to have been taken.

Fenris (shot to death), Kerensky (stabbed to death), Moogle (suicide), and Bard (hacked to death) are DEAD.

Night 1 over, Day 2 start. 9 to lynch.

Now we have a new child with a knife.
Going by the conclusion last time:
Gunshot=vig, hit IC
Chop up= Mafia, also hit IC
Stab= SK, attacked hawk.
Is it possible that there are a group of children with a night kill or maybe a second sk who picked up where Fen left off.
Is it possible Fen wasn't a lone killer but a child mafia or something?

[Sifright]

A new day, a new set of strange, grisly murders.

Two bodies lie in the streets, in a bizarre repetition of the previous day. One is a once elegant woman in a bergère, stabbed to death. The other is a child in a dunce cap, clutching a blood knife, with a single gunshot wound to his head. The child was also apparently mutilated after death, by some sort of brutal slashing instrument.

Hawk (stabbed to death) and Inbred Chocobo (shot to death) are DEAD.

Night 2 over, Day 3 start. 7 to lynch. ~96 hours to go.

Also, in the absence of a replacement, Shyria is modkilled and out of the game.

okay, i'm not nearly as confident at deconstructing this night post as the last.

My take. Hawk is the woman, killed by inbredchocobo (A SK aligned with Fenris?) Both the Vig and the mafia took him out? Gunshot being the Vig and the Mafia being the hacking up the corpse?

So yea, alot more tentative this time. I think that means the SK faction is out of the picture, so the only confirmed faction left is the Mafia, I still believe Gem to be the CL, although I had to admit the possibility of Kerensky and Moogle being 'lovers' does stay my hand. I'm not sure who to vote for at the moment, but my FOS on inbred was totally right *smug face*

Will make a post deconstructing previous events if i can find a thread of commonality linking people together.

Parting thought, No break in this night suggests hawk might have been the PO or that the break in was caused by Mafia.

[greed]

That was my conclusion Smarty 3 kill roles, looks like the children are the mafia. They kill with knives and stabs. The SK and the Vig kill with guns or mutilation, though given that it looks like the kids are the mafia it's pretty possible that either the Vig or the SK could use either remaining murder method. As it seems like people's fluff is not exactly what we expect from their roles (the SK could be a gunman and the Vig could be ultra aggressive and prone to mutilating people).

On the plus side if this is right the mafia is down two members already.

[greed]

Hit post too early

On the downside this means that unless someone who's been nightkilled was a cultist, that the cult is quite likely at 3 out of 7. One more night without losses to them and they win.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

My problem with kids being the mafia is why do they have respectively a beanie hat and a dunce cap. Mafia would wear same hats I feel.
Both of the two hats we have seen on the kids are like "crazy" hats so that's why I think the kids are a third faction- possibly SKs because they have crazy type hats. If they are a third organisation I would suggest the difference in hats means they don't know each other.
Also that would mean Moogs wasn't mafia at all and the trilbys are something different.
Possibility- could a trilby be a PO (detective styles) and Moogs was a lover PO whichi s why we had no break ins tonight. A lovers role with both sides town and one of them the PO would be prettystrange though.

But then again, we've seen two kid killers so maybe they are the mafia. Not sure.

[greed]

Two SKs seems a little odd. Also if there were two individual knife wielding child SKs we'd have had two stabbings on night one.

[Sifright]

My problem with kids being the mafia is why do they have respectively a beanie hat and a dunce cap. Mafia would wear same hats I feel.
Both of the two hats we have seen on the kids are like "crazy" hats so that's why I think the kids are a third faction- possibly SKs because they have crazy type hats. If they are a third organisation I would suggest the difference in hats means they don't know each other.
Also that would mean Moogs wasn't mafia at all and the trilbys are something different.
Possibility- could a trilby be a PO (detective styles) and Moogs was a lover PO whichi s why we had no break ins tonight. A lovers role with both sides town and one of them the PO would be prettystrange though.

But then again, we've seen two kid killers so maybe they are the mafia. Not sure.


I would suggest that fenris and Inbred had to communicate assuming both were sk faction otherwise how would they coordinate their kill presumably it would be a vote thing, the more i think about it though the more it makes more sense for that to be a mafia thing... but children as the mafia still kind of weirds me out.

In which case that would change things... a little.

Mafia down two members. (presuming the children were mafia.)

SK still active. (Hacking people to pieces?)

Vig still active. (Gun shot?)

Cult (unconfirmed assuming moogle/kerensky were lovers the cult is now three members strong, slight evidence in favor of this mafia would have killed Gem if moogle was a mafiate as they couldn't risk him being CL)

Parting thought, do we go for inactives or go for some one previously scummy like Aldurin, given that it looks like the PO is either dead or the break in was a mafia ploy.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I'm saying that IC could have been the second SK who becomes an SK when first SK dies. I've seen it happen.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

But probably best to run with assumption of chidren=mafia for now and see if that throws up any leads and see what we can get from Fen + ICs posts.

[Geminex]

Aaaargh, what is this.

Okay, I'm thorougly confused. Let's see.

First, what was up with P-Sleazy? Self-aligned paranoid isomniac. Anyone have an idea what he could have been doing?

Second. okay. Two night-deaths.

IC was yet another kid with a knife. I'd be inclined to agree with Greed that both IC and Fen were members of the child mafia. But if that's the case, then what's up with Moogle? He was a man in a trilby, not a kid. Either he was a mafia member (maybe as the don?), or Smarty's suggestion that IC succeeded Fen as SK is pertinent.

Gah.

In any case, IC stabbed Hawk (woman in a berege) and then got hit by the Vig and the SK. Not sure anymore which is which, but that's secondary.

As for PO absence... either his investigation is an x-shot ability, and he didn't want to use one tonight, or he got roleblocked, or he's dead. I'm leaning towards the latter, since there was plenty of suspicion going around yesterday. He would've investigated if he could have, and a roleblock would be really bad luck. Thing is, the only people it could've been were Sleazy, Hawk and IC. IC was obviously a mafiate, and neither Hawk nor Sleazy look like a PO to me. Mind you, we don't know whether or not the break-in was PO work at all. Given the circumstances, maybe Sif's suggestion was right, and it was just a watcher of some sort?

[rpgdemon]

First, what was up with P-Sleazy? Self-aligned paranoid isomniac. Anyone have an idea what he could have been doing?

This has been bothering me. With no kill role, and no actual powers, he'd never be able to be the last one standing. It's not really relevant, but I'm confused about it.

I've got to go to class, I'll think about the rest there.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Whoops, sorry folks, I made a mistake with the Night post. IC was the one stabbed to death and Hawk was the one shot to death.

[Sifright]

Wait, IC was stabbed and hacked up?

[Mr.Bookworm]

No. The top of the post is correct. My listing of who died of what at the bottom was not.

[BahamutFlare]

Is Hawk the child or the woman though? I'm thoroughly confused.

I'm going to be really curious to know what P-Sleazy's win condition was. Is cult self-aligned? Cuz a crazy guy with a tinfoil hat...that may have been cult?

I believe Hawk was the child and the woman was IC. Meaning IC would be town. Time to find what clues were left by IC I guess.

[BahamutFlare]

Can we know what Shyria's hat was? Or anything about her?

[Sifright]

Is Hawk the child or the woman though? I'm thoroughly confused.

I'm going to be really curious to know what P-Sleazy's win condition was. Is cult self-aligned? Cuz a crazy guy with a tinfoil hat...that may have been cult?

I believe Hawk was the child and the woman was IC. Meaning IC would be town. Time to find what clues were left by IC I guess.


okay, i've been getting massively scummy vibes off you all game, totally going to go back and quote all the posts that give off that vibe basically it feels like your giving off loads of faux confusion, every post from you has been I'm alive i'm here but i'm confused and not sure what to do. Will make a better case for this once I get home. Will be at least two hours due to public transport.

[rpgdemon]

okay, i've been getting massively scummy vibes off you all game, totally going to go back and quote all the posts that give off that vibe basically it feels like your giving off loads of faux confusion, every post from you has been I'm alive i'm here but i'm confused and not sure what to do. Will make a better case for this once I get home. Will be at least two hours due to public transport.

I'm glad someone else felt the same way. This recent post really made me think scum. It's like, there's only a certain amount of time that you can be the unknown who sort of is lingering around, and it's been crossed.

I don't think it's scummy necessarily because he's confused this time, but more because we KNOW the alignment of Tin-Hat, and it's self, not cult. It feels like the post was a distraction.

[Aldurin]

My take. Hawk is the woman, killed by inbredchocobo (A SK aligned with Fenris?) Both the Vig and the mafia took him out? Gunshot being the Vig and the Mafia being the hacking up the corpse?

The flavor association is starting to bother me to no end, specifically why very few people seem to be saying that being hacked to death would be most likely a SK kill, since that sort of fucked up stuff is what serial killers do. Knives and gunshots seems more conventional and more "civilized" than the other kill method and would make sense to be mafia and/or vig kills.

Just using Sif's post as an example. I can't really say if the SK is trying to cover his trail or not since I think multiple people have made the assumption that hacked to death was either mafia or vigilante.

[BahamutFlare]

I really don't know anything about cult. I don't mean to sound scummy when I honestly don't have that big an idea.

Sif: I am not going to go around quoting dead people and bringing up points. Rather I will use it to see behavior in how most people are acting. I've been psycho-analyzing people the entire time. I'm pretty sure I know who at least 4/5 mafia are. 2/5 being dead. But I did predict them too. I've been putting small traps like Snake did, but rather than make it known, I let people fall into them and make a footprint. They get out thinking that nothing ever happened. The reason why I'm going back to look at IC's posts are that because he was town, and I assumed he was town. He was making really good posts, it's probably why the mafia took him down. I shall learn his wisdom because I thought he was a brilliant person and pretty good intentions with his words.

I'm sorry I'm confused about self-aligned P-Sleazy. And from what I can tell, I am willing to bet RPG is scum. Sif too maybe...I don't know. I believe Gem is town. And I'm a bit suspicious of the people that went on the bandwagon of him. RPG, you've gone on the bandwagon, then off the bandwagon whenever people called you out on it. You are the next person on my FoS. You're acting so hard to look like a good guy.

If I was scummy in anything, please I'd like to know. I wasn't here at the end of D1, so I didn't vote. Besides, I didn't think the choices given to me had enough evidence to warrant a vote. D2, P-Sleazy was self-aligned, so granted I didn't recognize mafia for a vote, I recognized someone that wasn't town.

[rpgdemon]

RPG, you've gone on the bandwagon, then off the bandwagon whenever people called you out on it. You are the next person on my FoS. You're acting so hard to look like a good guy.

That's a point to call you to be scum, as well as the, "I know who they are, but I'm not saying." First, addressing that point, I voted for him, then I myself called out everyone voting for Gem as bandwagoning and unvoted, after some reflection.

Second, "I know who they are, but I'm not saying, but I've had perfect accuracy so far" is as far from helping the town as you can be. If you think you know who the scum are, you say so, especially since if you were really town, you'd be running the risk of a night kill tonight, and then we wouldn't get any benefit from your information unless you told us. If you're scum though, you need to look valuable, so that the Vig won't kill you, and that's all that you're doing.

You're pretty much saying, "I've been completely accurate thus far (Despite not saying anything about it), and am totally 4/5 accurate in the future, kill this guy, and if I'm alive, I'll keep telling you who to kill". You never made those predictions in the past that you say you had, we don't even KNOW who's what role so you can't have confirmed your predictions, and the only role you could have confirmed was the one that you self-admittedly are completely confused about.

What doesn't add up is, after one of these hits, you lose credibility. You're no longer going to have a "perfect record" going, and no one is going to listen to you in the future. But maybe they don't have to, you just have to have them not suspect you. I'm postulating that you're trying to convince not only the town, that you're on their side, but also the scum that you're incompetent at being on the town's side, and not worth a hit. Thus, I can only assume that you're none other than the dreaded Serial Killer.

##vote: BahamutFlare

[Sifright]

I really don't know anything about cult. I don't mean to sound scummy when I honestly don't have that big an idea.

Sif: I am not going to go around quoting dead people and bringing up points. Rather I will use it to see behavior in how most people are acting. I've been psycho-analyzing people the entire time. I'm pretty sure I know who at least 4/5 mafia are. 2/5 being dead. But I did predict them too. I've been putting small traps like Snake did, but rather than make it known, I let people fall into them and make a footprint. They get out thinking that nothing ever happened. The reason why I'm going back to look at IC's posts are that because he was town, and I assumed he was town. He was making really good posts, it's probably why the mafia took him down. I shall learn his wisdom because I thought he was a brilliant person and pretty good intentions with his words.

I'm sorry I'm confused about self-aligned P-Sleazy. And from what I can tell, I am willing to bet RPG is scum. Sif too maybe...I don't know. I believe Gem is town. And I'm a bit suspicious of the people that went on the bandwagon of him. RPG, you've gone on the bandwagon, then off the bandwagon whenever people called you out on it. You are the next person on my FoS. You're acting so hard to look like a good guy.

If I was scummy in anything, please I'd like to know. I wasn't here at the end of D1, so I didn't vote. Besides, I didn't think the choices given to me had enough evidence to warrant a vote. D2, P-Sleazy was self-aligned, so granted I didn't recognize mafia for a vote, I recognized someone that wasn't town.

Nope IC and Fenris are either an SK alignment or Mafia. P-Sleazy is self aligned that means he isn't aligned with any one else, doesn't mean himself and others can't end up winning just that he primarily concerned with himself. I'm assuming his win condition was to survive until the game was concluded.

You are doing exactly what I felt gem was doing earlier in the thread but like a million times more at least Gem tries to add stuff you just kept going "Hi i'm alive but confused about everything"

There is no way IC was town, given that he was found dead holding the knife used to kill Hawk. I think all your posts have been made to act as a distraction and confuse issues.

##Vote:BahamutFlare

Parting thought if we presume the stabbings are mafia and the SK is the one hacking people to pieces we should know at the end of night three that SK is still in business this does mean that the mafia would be down at least two members though. Priority finding out whether cult exists as next night they will be the massively dominant faction if they do exist.

[rpgdemon]

To clarify the Gem bit: When I thought about it, it didn't make sense and just felt like a "Quick, get 'im! He's cult!", and I unvoted. I even said that it felt like a bandwagon, either right when I unvoted, or immediately after, I don't remember.

[rpgdemon]

I'm off to class, any response will have to wait an hour.

[BahamutFlare]

Sorry Sif, you're going to quote me. Not me going to research IC. Ok gotcha. I misunderstood.

Aldurin, from this flavor, mafia is the children stabbing. I would say vig is the shooter, but...I don't have proof. SK should be the hack and slash.

Vote: RPGdemon

while I'm at it.

2. Gregness
5. Viridis
7. Sifright -- Mafia -- You were aggressive D1 and D2. I'm not 100% sure about you, but I'm leaning towards Mafia.
8. Karesh -- Town -- Hunch. I have a few reasons to back it up, but nothing concrete.
9. Revolving Ocelot
10. Aldurin --Town -- Had a big bandwagon on him D1, survived
11. Geminex --Town -- I believe the bandwagon on him D2 was horribly justified. I made that clear before. I think mafia tried to make him it then went to P-Sleazy since he wasn't their own.
14. Greed
15. Smarty -- Town -- I believe so based on the fact he's been doing what I'm doing. D1, he pointed people who were dropping hints of information on page 27. I'm pretty sure I would trust Smarty on his words when he isn't drunk.
16. Ravashak
18. rpgdemon -- Mafia -- On and off the bandwagon.

I'm not sure about the others to put out my word. But I believe this to be the case. I'm still unsure about Sif though. I really think it's a coinflip, but his aggressiveness kinda makes me seem scum. IC thought he was scummy D1 too, so I'm not alone there.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Quick pop in to say that I'mnot seeing the Bahamut lynch. Go read his posts again. Both day 1 and day 2 he had some insightful glances. Sort but useful.
RPG is still ringing up the radar for the same reasons as outlined day 2.
If we were to go anybody right now it should be RPG

[BahamutFlare]

A new day, a new set of strange, grisly murders.

Two bodies lie in the streets, in a bizarre repetition of the previous day. One is a once elegant woman in a bergère, stabbed to death. The other is a child in a dunce cap, clutching a blood knife, with a single gunshot wound to his head. The child was also apparently mutilated after death, by some sort of brutal slashing instrument.

Hawk (shot to death) and Inbred Chocobo (stabbed to death) are DEAD.

Night 2 over, Day 3 start. 7 to lynch. ~96 hours to go.

Also, in the absence of a replacement, Shyria is modkilled and out of the game.

Bookworm had it switched. IC was shot. Hawk was stabbed. The mafia killed Hawk, not IC. IC was town. That's how I took it. That's what I'm saying. So Sif and RPG, you two trying to start a bandwagon on me?

The reason I didn't reveal my information is that you don't reveal your hand in poker. Now, I've made personal goals for my first mafia to see how good I could be at reading information without feelings being involved. You don't have to trust me when I say I thought Hawk and Fenris were Mafia. But I did. I set up a trap for Hawk and I think the Vig saw it and took him out. As well as the SK. As time passes on this game, I'm slowly becoming more confident...not that I'm going to live to the end, but that the mafia is going to go down.

[rpgdemon]

So Sif and RPG, you two trying to start a bandwagon on me?

No, we independently both thought you were scummy, and both independently voted at the exact same time.

If I were in cahoots with Sif, and trying to start a bandwagon on you, I'd have waited until hours and posts later, and then voted for you, not simulposted with him.

You say you set a ton of traps, but don't explain what you did that gave you that proof. As much confusion as his "TRAPPED!" statements caused, Snake at least said why he thought that people were scum, not just that they were because there was a trap totally guys trust me on it.

You keep saying, "On and off the bandwagon", when that isn't even a thing that happened. Smarty and Sif started a bandwagon against Gem with little substantial evidence, and I was pulled in out of fear of the cult. I realized that it was an insubstantial bandwagon with no real evidence, and pointed it out saying, "Guys, don't do that." Like, if I were interested in a bandwagon, I wouldn't have pointed out that it was a terrible idea to be all bandwagonning on Gem.

[Sifright]

Hawk isn't mafia, hawk was the woman stabbed by IC, IC was the mafiate Shot and hacked to pieces.

Go back and reread the top part of Bookies night post.

[Geminex]

Sif, how about you reread it? Bookie made an edit. He even told you guys that he had been mistaken. How did you miss that?

Hawk got shot. As such, he'd have been the kid. IC got stabbed. As such, he would've been the woman.

Or am I missing something here?

[Sifright]

disregard that I am mistaken >.<

[Geminex]

A new day, a new set of strange, grisly murders.

Two bodies lie in the streets, in a bizarre repetition of the previous day. One is a once elegant woman in a bergère, stabbed to death. The other is a child in a dunce cap, clutching a blood knife, with a single gunshot wound to his head. The child was also apparently mutilated after death, by some sort of brutal slashing instrument.

Hawk (shot to death) and Inbred Chocobo (stabbed to death) are DEAD.

Night 2 over, Day 3 start. 7 to lynch. ~96 hours to go.

Also, in the absence of a replacement, Shyria is modkilled and out of the game.


Look, here is the edited nightpost.

Whoops, sorry folks, I made a mistake with the Night post. IC was the one stabbed to death and Hawk was the one shot to death.
And here is bookie telling you that he had made a mistake with the nightpost.

Did you just willfully ignore this?

[Sifright]

disregard that I am mistaken >.<

Clearly I managed to confuse my self, because when bookie said in response to me that the top part of the post was okay I made the incorrect presumption that it meant what I originally thought wasn't invalidated.

[Geminex]

Argh, sorry. I didn't see you'd responded already.

Anyway, bahamutflare. Lessee. Just got home, I'll go through a few of his posts.

Respond later.

[Ravashak]

What I find most interesting about the night post is that there's no mention of a break-in this night. I'm unsure how to interpret it, but it's bound to give some info to us.

Was the one breaking in the PO? Unsure how to feel about a PO breaking in, but nothing was stolen. If we assume the PO was the one breaking in, what does letting us know do? On the one hand, it could be that it was done just to let us know the investigation happened, maybe in order to lure out a fake role claim which could be counter-claimed? It could also mean that we should be more suspicious of the one investigated, letting us know something's not quite right.

Another potential roles that I can think of that would break in are the watcher (less likely, just putting it out) or the roleblocker (preventing an action by stealing something necessary, like a gun/knife/...). In this roleblocker theory, the announcement could mean that Aldurin didn't perform a night action, though this doesn't remove the possibility of him being a mafiate, just not the one doing the killing (and getting shot, if the little kids are the mafia, as opposed to the other option mentioned earlier that we had a master and apprentice SK, for lack of better terms, in which the apprentice became able to kill after the master got shot).

Anyway, now in night 2, there was no mention at all. Does this mean that the one that performed the break-in (PO or roleblocker are what I assume) is no longer alive, or that nothing worthy to let us know was found?

[BahamutFlare]

Look, here is the edited nightpost.


And here is bookie telling you that he had made a mistake with the nightpost.

Did you just willfully ignore this?

Thank you. That's what I've been trying to say. Bookworm did something a bit confusing, and I'm not sure if people are trying to take advantage of it or what.

Sif, I'm not sure if you misinterpret what I say or what, but most of my points aren't mistaken. There's a reason why I was a bit confused with this night. And you being confused too? That's where I was. And it came off scummy I guess to you? Maybe what I said will make more sense now.

[Sifright]

okay so looking back day 1, we have such insights from Bahamutflare that fenris play style is totally A-ok.

The two people I am most suspicious of are P-Sleazy and Shyria.

P-Sleazy has posted about 5 times. Most of them at the beginning and none of them have any insight or concrete information. All of them are jokes.

Shyria posted one vote for P-Sleazy and is now outta here. No reason. Seemed like a joke vote.

If you're confused and don't have any insight to add, then I like how Fenris acted. He just flat out stated it. He said he was active, but didn't have any clues. To me, that's seems less scummy than the jokes that Shyria and P-Sleazy made. I'd be curious to hear what everyone's thoughts are about these 2. Please?

Given that Fenris was a mafiate and that his play style was utterly scummy, "I'm going to sit on the side lines and eat popcorn nomnomonom" Included the entire post for more context.


Other choice posts


We have no real proof that a cult exists. I mean CL attempting to cult Moogle and Moogle killing himself since he was mafia would be a likely explanation. Now lovers? While it could make sense...

I really don't like the Gem bandwagon guys and girls. I haven't seen any proof except for feelings. And feelings aren't proof except in YuGiOh or some other anime. At this point, I feel like I would agree with going to try to find the mafia. Maybe we can have someone investigate Gem.

Whatever happened to Greed, RO, Viridis, and Gregness? RO was active on D1 if I remember correctly, but D2, these 4 are just fading blips on the radar.


Like, I get I was probably totally wrong about Gem I don't think I was, but at the same time there was NO bandwagon on gem. The highest it reached was three votes on him. during that entire time Sleazy was massively close to being lynched off even with his roleclaim, you don't kill a roleclaim like bulletproof with out at least a little proof and all the people that voted him are totally partially fosed due to that.

Day 1 => He doesn't vote for any one. (Not voting is scummy as hell as it doesn't give voting pattern info)

Day 2=> Votes for Sleazy a claimed bulletproof who is actually Self aligned (Mafia would totally vote for bulletproof claimed player if that player has acted suspiciously enough to garner attention and other votes)

Many of his posts are devoid of actual content and insights basically his posts are enough to show he is active but attempts to avoid getting into any protracted conversation where he has to take more of a stand. The one time he has done so is in defense of Gem when I had an admittedly very weak case, it was an easy way to look active and be considered an important part of the game by deflecting a weak lynch attempt on a player with out doing anything that could cast any suspicion on him whilst still seeming to actively contribute.


Parting thoughts, Lets look at who Hawk and Fenris thought were scummy, might be a decent starting point to find out who not to vote for. (Unless I'm utterly mistaken both were mafia)

[Sifright]

Well a quick once over the thread shows how useless that idea was

[Gregness]

Okay, I don't have much time (since I really should be working on a programming assignment at the moment), so I haven't completely caught up on the backlog but the lynch and night posts, as well as some information of my own have given me some suspicions about the very nature of this game that may shed some light on the confusion flying about.

So, in a nutshell: what if the self aligned players are, in fact, the majority?

I can give a more detailed reasoning later, but first we never got confirmation of what factions actually exist in the first post. We've seen evidence of at least one SK, as well as P_sleazy being self-aligned but not a serial killer. I'll go ahead and just state that I'm self-aligned, but without a kill power.

Basically, that all seems weird as hell to me.

So, what if there's a very small town, and a cult and a mafia that all have the ability to recruit the (apparantly large amount) of self aligned players?

It's the best I've got and I'll do my best to catch up tonight, but I've been thinking about this since the night post went up (and, indeed, since I was given my role) so I figured I'd see what y'all think.

[BahamutFlare]

okay so looking back day 1, we have such insights from Bahamutflare that fenris play style is totally A-ok.


Given that Fenris was a mafiate and that his play style was utterly scummy, "I'm going to sit on the side lines and eat popcorn nomnomonom" Included the entire post for more context.


He was playing smart. I had a hunch that he was scummy. I liked the intelligence he portrayed. However, other people are a higher priority. On D1, nothing is certain. I wouldn't vote to lynch someone on a hunch. I'd like to see how they act for the rest of the game to see changes in the behavior so they can out their mafia friends.


Other choice posts

Like, I get I was probably totally wrong about Gem I don't think I was, but at the same time there was NO bandwagon on gem. The highest it reached was three votes on him. during that entire time Sleazy was massively close to being lynched off even with his roleclaim, you don't kill a roleclaim like bulletproof with out at least a little proof and all the people that voted him are totally partially fosed due to that.

Day 1 => He doesn't vote for any one. (Not voting is scummy as hell as it doesn't give voting pattern info)

Day 2=> Votes for Sleazy a claimed bulletproof who is actually Self aligned (Mafia would totally vote for bulletproof claimed player if that player has acted suspiciously enough to garner attention and other votes)

Many of his posts are devoid of actual content and insights basically his posts are enough to show he is active but attempts to avoid getting into any protracted conversation where he has to take more of a stand. The one time he has done so is in defense of Gem when I had an admittedly very weak case, it was an easy way to look active and be considered an important part of the game by deflecting a weak lynch attempt on a player with out doing anything that could cast any suspicion on him whilst still seeming to actively contribute.


Votes on Gem seemed to appear and disappear quickly. Once no proof on Gem was found, it would appear scummy if they continued it. That's why I think people that voted but quickly got off of it realized that their plan may have backfired.

D1: I didn't vote. I thought the choices among who to vote for was pretty poor. That and I wasn't here at the end of D1 or N1. I posted that I wouldn't be here that weekend before the game started.

D2: P-Sleazy was not being helpful towards town. I thought he made it clear that he wasn't town. And I mean while he wasn't mafia, he wasn't town. Was it risky? Sure, but he was acting suspicious the entire time.

My posts were never devoid of content. I was short, clear, and concise. The way of an engineer. I'm overly cautious too. I wanted the tinfoil hat. That would so have been me in real life. hahaha.

[BahamutFlare]

Okay, I don't have much time (since I really should be working on a programming assignment at the moment), so I haven't completely caught up on the backlog but the lynch and night posts, as well as some information of my own have given me some suspicions about the very nature of this game that may shed some light on the confusion flying about.

So, in a nutshell: what if the self aligned players are, in fact, the majority?

I can give a more detailed reasoning later, but first we never got confirmation of what factions actually exist in the first post. We've seen evidence of at least one SK, as well as P_sleazy being self-aligned but not a serial killer. I'll go ahead and just state that I'm self-aligned, but without a kill power.

Basically, that all seems weird as hell to me.

So, what if there's a very small town, and a cult and a mafia that all have the ability to recruit the (apparantly large amount) of self aligned players?

It's the best I've got and I'll do my best to catch up tonight, but I've been thinking about this since the night post went up (and, indeed, since I was given my role) so I figured I'd see what y'all think.

What's your win condition? Maybe we do have a group of self-aligned people that are mercs. That's kinda weird then. It prolongs the game if nothing else. Anyway, I'm going to hear what everyone else thinks about this and answer anymore questions you guys have when they come up. Peace out until later tonight.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Sort of a busy time for me at the minute, buuuut:

HEY SIFRIGHT
REMEMBER WHEN YOU SAID LYNCHING P-SLEAZY WAS A BAD IDEA?
YEAH.
FUNNY STORY.

[Revising Ocelot]

Gregness saying he's self-aligned all of a sudden? That's making you a target, but obviously a lower priority target than Mafia. Which also leads one to the possible conclusion that you are actually Mafia, you're sweating, and you want to survive as long as possible? Hm.

Anyway, if you're leaping out like this, you may as well state what your hat is as a frame of reference.

[Revising Ocelot]

Yay double post. But yeah, we need your hat. It may just be that all self-aligned players have "silly" hats (dunce, beanie, tinfoil) with the killing ones being the "kid" hats. While Mafia have, well, Mafia-associated hats.

[Gregness]

Okay, I guess I'll Hatclaim: I am the Man with the Balaclava, self-aligned.

I guess I'm a target technically, but as I said I don't have a kill role so I'm not a threat to town. My win condition is standard self-aligned win condition: be the last man standing. But, without a kill power there are only a select few corner cases where that could concievably happen. Much more likely given my own information, as well as the roles and hats we've seen in Book's posts, is that from a game design perspective I'm just recruitment fodder.

Also, we were all sort of confused by Snakes "peacemaker" role. What if he had some power over self aligned players? It would make sense given the apparantly large number of self-aligned players. A lot of us being self aligned would also explain the large amount of nonspecific scum tells everyone is noticing.

[Geminex]

Okay, lessee.
First, Bahamut: I've actually noticed him doing this as well. He's around, and he contributes a few tidbits here and there, but aside from that, he's pretty withdrawn. And while I'm loathe to call him suspicious for defending me, Sif's logic does make sense. The lynch was never really coordinated, and it would've been a good opportunity for a mafiate to gain some brownie points. Hell, looking back Hawk did it as well.

On the other hand, Bahamut could really just have been calling Sif out on his admittedly weak arguments. And honestly, so far, I had put his sporadic activity down to inexperience. Gonna file this away for now.

Second, PO and Earl: We've agreed that Earl has been pretty suspicious. The fact that he (apparently) got investigated in night 1 stayed our hand, and with good reason. We weren't sure, and we knew that the PO could enlighten us later on. But I've been having second thoughts about that.

First, was it really the PO that investigated earl? I've already mentioned that a PO with 'public' investigations seemed weird to me, and it still does. Plus, I've found this (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Reporter). The reporter. Investigates by checking a player's house to see if they're home and find out whether the player was active that night. Given that this description matches the nightpost pretty well, I'm starting to think that whoever broke in at earl's was a reporter, rather than some modification of the PO role. And if it was a reporter, then we'd, at best, be learning whether or not earl was active night 1. That's still helpful of course, but even if the reporter came out and told us, we still wouldn't be much further, since a night-active role could still be any alignment.

And secondly, whether it was a PO or a reporter, we didn't get news of any break-in this night.That can mean several things, obviously. But right now, I'm inclined to believe that it's because whoever was doing the investigating is dead. Maybe it was Sleazy (if we assume that the self-aligned players are meant to be recruited, that'd make sense and fit in with his 'paranoid' aspect), maybe it was Shyria. In any case, I don't think we'll be getting the information. Maybe that's just me.

But ultimately, our situation is this: We have a player who we're pretty sure is scum (Earl). We know that maybe someone has definite information regarding his alignment, and we know that maybe that person is still alive. That's too many maybes for me. Bahamutflare is worth keeping an eye on, but I think we should to go after earl first.

In regards to the whole 'Town recruits self-aligned players', that's really interesting. I'm not sure I buy it yet, since I'm not sure how that mechanic would even work, and it doesn't really fit in with the theme of the game. I mean, the only confirmed self-aligned player we've discovered so far is Sleazy, and Gregness could be lying.

Given that his claimed win condition is unfullfillable (it's close to impossible to be the last man standing when you don't have a kill power), and I don't think bookie would hand out that kind of roll without some compensating factor, I see three possibilities here:

1: Greg's telling the truth, and there really are a bunch of unaligned players around that are meant to be recruited by the town. These players' only way of winning would be aforesaid town recruitment.

2: Greg really is self-aligned, but his win condition is different. There's a variety of self-aligned roles like lynchers (their goal is to get one specific player lynched) or survivors (who have to survive up to a certain power to win). He could be one of these, and it'd make sense for him to try and hide it. The question is, why would he come out and tell us that he's self-aligned in the first place? Afraid of getting investigated and lynched as the SK?

3: Gredg is scum, and this is just a ruse.

I don't think it's 3, honestly. It's a toss-up between 1 and 2, and I'm willing to give Greg the benefit of the doubt, for now, and go with 1. If it is 2, we'll find out soon enough, and he'd still have difficulty harming us until then.

So. That's my 2 cents. Keep an eye on bahamut, lynch earl, try and see if Greg's roleclaim makes sense.

[Sifright]

Sort of a busy time for me at the minute, buuuut:

HEY SIFRIGHT
REMEMBER WHEN YOU SAID LYNCHING P-SLEAZY WAS A BAD IDEA?
YEAH.
FUNNY STORY.

So yea, lets explain the distinctions between me saying lynching sleazy was bad and bahamut saying lynching Gem is bad.

Gem
No chance of being lynched low vote count.
No role claim
Weak argument against him for lynching

Sleazy
High chance of being lynched
Role claimed bulletproof
Weak - Moderate argument against him

Defending gem, minimal controversy easy to justify thus safe tactic for a mafiate Hint that Bahamut is a mafia in this context, blowing out of proportion the chances of Gem being lynched, I don't have the exact numbers but I don't recall the vote count for gem ever going above 3.

Defending Sleazy, vote count was high, already had made odd statements which are slightly scummy. Would cause large controversy defending player in this situation would be far to attention getting for mafiate. Role claimed bullet proof, killing power roles with out a little bit more solid proof is terrible with out a counter claim or conflicting evidence.

Going the whole but every one roleclaims power role when about to be lynched is terrible because when it comes down to it that argument could be used to kill PO/Doctor roles.

Thoughts on gem post, PO investigations being public weirded me out last game night post but I thought it could make sense, given the latest night post I no longer think the break in was the work of the PO as it would be likely to be something we would see every game night. It's possible the break in was a mafia ploy to help keep him alive or to cast more guilt on him i'm unsure.

Parting thoughts, lets see every ones fos lists I'm not happy with how many people are withholding information that town desperately needs.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I wasn't posting yet because I wanted to go check out IC and Fens posts and quite busy at work today but my FOs list is basically
RPG
Aldurin

For now with assorted other minor ones (Gem, Sif mostly, maybe Karesh). RPG is target number 1 however, so
Vote: RPG
I would be ok with an Ald lynch but RPG is most scummy to me.


I don't know what is up with Gregness claim. Seems a bit suspect. I'm town-aligned, not self aligned and I find the idea of self-aligned with no kill a bit weird.
He did offer up the info out of nowhere and I have no real reason to suspect him of anything. I don't think he's mafia because this would be a ridiculous play for mafia to try and there isn't any real evidence he is mafia.
Gem summed it up pretty well. We can keep an eye on greg but no reason to lynch.

As for the breakins, I'm sticking with Moogs as the breakin PO for now.

[Ravashak]

Guess if we're gonna start roleclaiming, I'm the Woman in the Beaver Hat, self aligned, no killing role and the same win condition as Gregness claimed before. I was thinking the same thing, that there would be no vanillas this game, and Gregness' claim reinforced that idea. In other words, I think one of Geminex' first idea regarding Gregness' roleclaim is correct, based on my own situation. In addition, I like Gregness' idea that Town is actually the cult in this game.


I don't know what is up with Gregness claim. Seems a bit suspect. I'm town-aligned, not self aligned and I find the idea of self-aligned with no kill a bit weird.
He did offer up the info out of nowhere and I have no real reason to suspect him of anything. I don't think he's mafia because this would be a ridiculous play for mafia to try and there isn't any real evidence he is mafia.
Gem summed it up pretty well. We can keep an eye on greg but no reason to lynch.

As for the breakins, I'm sticking with Moogs as the breakin PO for now.

And this is where I disagree very strongly with SMB. As I've said above, we know Sleazy was self-aligned, Gregness has no reason at this point to claim self-aligned if he's town or mafia (it'd only make him a target), and I know myself, this is too much self-aligned chars based on the info we have to think any town claims are what they claim they are. This adds to the blips SMB caused with his voting. On day 1, he stuck with his vote on Snake, even after the announcement that Snake'd leave, instead of going after the other main suspect at the time (and remember, there needed only be one person to switch for the lynch to have happened on Aldurin instead). Then on day 2, SMB was part of the Sleazy lynch bandwagon, and pre-emptively called out people that'd leave the bandwagon, even after the rolecall. Wanting to lynch a potential bulletproof (as it turned out, an insomniac) is not in the town interest. By doing this, I feel he both protected his fellow mafiates that were voting for Sleazy (as he was an easy target at the start), and scare those that aren't scum from leaving the bandwagon.

Vote: Smarty McBarrelpants

In addition, the vanilla claims of Karesh and Aldurin are under strong suspicion, so
FoS: Aldurin, Karesh

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Snake was ruining the game he needed to go as well as being the most scummy day 1 player I've ever seen. He was having a hissy fit and would have come back the next few days or so and started causing all his shit again. Lynching snake was the correct move and I stand by that decision.
P-Sleazy- When did I call out people leaving the P-Sleazy vote? I repeateadly said muiltiple times that I wanted to lynch Gem and not P-Sleazy but I was onlny voting for him because we didn't have any other targets. The only person I called out was RPGDemon who has done it multiple times and constantly whenever anyone draws attention to his vote.
Further his roleclaim came after he was about to die- a common scum tactic.
Thirdly people were saying to leave him alive and we can find out his role later. This had two major problems. Firstly HE WASN'T POSTING. We would never find out his role. And secondly- nobody offered any other real targets.

Thirdly- I didn't bandwagon Sleazy. I voted for him second then I just didn't change my vote because I had no other targets. He died during the night when I was sleeping, well before I expected the day to end.

Finally what would I gain as mafia from forcing a lynch on a self-aligned townie. That makes no sense.
ANd I didn't force a lynch on him at all. I wanted Gem to be lynched I didn't berate anyone for leaving the bandwagon.

WTF Ravashak. WTF indeed.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

You're just making shit up out of your ass and trying to pervert the discussion. I don't think you're scum but you're certainly running the town discussion like one.

As for the self-aligned roles I said in my very post that I don't think he's scum, just that there is something weird and he is not telling us everything.

I find it hard to believe Snake was a CLtownie. Cause he no way would have acted as he did if he was. He made himself instantly a big target for everyone which is a ridiculous way to play as a CL

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Also this line of thinking is totally dangerous. Trying to work out hte makeup of the town only helps the mafia. I'm tots suspicious of everyone who is pursuing it.
FOS: Ravashak, Gregness.
One of three things- either you are scum trying to buy information out of the town, or you are trying to buy protection from the mafia bullet by claiming self aligned (another reason that your "You tried to lycnh P-Sleazy makes no sense") or you just want to get more info out.
This is not a good avenue to go down and I tried to avoid it.

[Ravashak]

Other thoughts- watch out for people leaping off the Sleazy bandwagon now that its nature has been called out.
RPG brings up the most suspicon. He jumepd on the wagon with Sleazy is confusing, then as soon as it was brought up as a wagon he jumped off again.
This combined with his pidgeonholing of arguments leads to me to
FOS: RPG

I woud vote him but:
Psleazy, I'm really not sure. like he's been quiet but that's not necessarily a scum tell.
His bulletproof claim could be an easy lie.
I wnat to hear from RPG first before vote switch.
This is where you told people to beware those jumping off after this roleclaim
Man, can't you guys just accept a simple explanation?

ROLECLAIM: Tinfoil Hat

I'm paranoid so I can't be killed at night. (incidentally, I also think you all can read my mind).Note that Sleazy did NOT claim being self-aligned here.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I was specifically referring to people jumping off the wagon after it was called out as a wagon. Because scum don't want to be seen as on a votewagon.
And RPG had been suspicious anyway.

I didn't remember the Sleazy didn't claim self-aligned. I was voting fo rhim well before the claim however and all my activity was before it- I didn't really do anything after he claimed.

But I'm going to com eclean. I'm self-aligned too. I didn't want to let it out because I didn't want scum to figure out that town is mostly (all?) self-aligned. But I think that the theory is probably correct,there is a high percentage of self-aligned, possibly everyone.
This is what I was getting at with my SK theory- I think there are two SK and when they die a new self-aligned becomes SK and they don't know about it beforehand. It's the only way to make sure that an all self-aligned game didn't just crush into a stalemate- ensure there is lots of night kills and that whoever is left as self-aligned has a night kill.
It doesn't change much though. We need to sniff out the mafia still.
There could still be a cult, it makes snese to me to have a town cult and another cult.

[Geminex]

I'm honestly not sure about the majority of your points. That is to say, I'll have to reread them and sort my thoughts on them later. This is certainly a development... gah.

There could still be a cult, it makes snese to me to have a town cult and another cult.
This is kinda silly, though. Uhm. Unless there's a rule in place preventing people from faction-switching more than once, multiple recruiting factions would mean that people could, and would, switch alignment more than once. There could be townies who know all about the cult, or culties who know which townie recruited them. Silly.

That's all for now, though. Got class, I'll read through stuff when I get home.

[rpgdemon]

I find it hard to believe Snake was a CLtownie. Cause he no way would have acted as he did if he was. He made himself instantly a big target for everyone which is a ridiculous way to play as a CL

I dunno, he made that whole, "I don't want you to win!" post, might have been him going, "I'm the only one that can let people win, you're fucked."

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

In addition, the vanilla claims of Karesh and Aldurin are under strong suspicion, so
FoS: Aldurin, Karesh

Oh hey! It's page 58 of this thread and people are still fucking trying to lie about what I said.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Re multiple cults- I was just thinking if I was GM and I had a town cult starting from 1 I would have multiple cults because there is way too much chance that the town cult dies day early then you just have everyone unaligned. I'd want multiple factions growing. YOu could easily put in rules that say if you try to cult someone in another cult it just fails. Makes far more sense than having the town be one dude.

I think we should lynch Karesh for having a stupidly low post per page setting though. Cause it's clearly page 8 not 58.

[BahamutFlare]

So maybe town lost on D1. Now it's up to the unaligned to fight off the mafia. Or maybe unaligned is like another town. When only self-aligned players are left, then they win? But they have to be alive unlike dead townies can win.

That being said, I am of course insinuating I'm self-aligned too.

I think the mafia is the children. So if 2 are gone, then that would mean 3 left. Flavor wise, if a mafia member was dying, it'd make the most sense for him to be the one killing someone in the field. I think that children being copycat serial killers just doesn't make sense. If that's true, we've been horribly lucky to nab the SK and the kid that turned into SK. The odds of that seem low. Killing 2 mafia members is a lot higher. I believe that anyone who is a child with a stupid hat is mafia. Maybe the Don is a dad?

[BahamutFlare]

Revelation: Scenario:

What if in this game, the world consists of 1 Townie that recruits people to town? and 5 mafia members. The rest are self-aligned.

Now, we kept thinking that there is a town vig, mafia, SK, doing the kills at night. Well, if we are all self-aligned, then we got Mafia, and 2 SK's that could be potential Town Vig's had Snake stayed in the game. Now that Snake is gone, none of us can convert to town, and we may have 2 different SK's, self-aligned PO may have been Moogle in the detective hat (He broke in and could have died N1. Therefore, no information about Aldurin may ever be known.), a self-aligned Inventor, self-aligned vanillas.

In this case, anyone that role claimed in the very beginning to have been town may be lying out their butt. There may be no townies left. And of course scum is going to role claim townie D1 especially. So he may have role claimed something that doesn't exist anymore.

[Revising Ocelot]

I think there'd be 4 Mafia for a 20 (well, 21, but Snake was late) player game, not 5. AFAIK it's almost always 20% Mafia compared to the rest of the game, cult or otherwise. 25% would be too powerful? Then again, anything's possible given the deliberate ambiguity about roles in the game. I'm currently of the opinion that there's NOT an insane amount of self-aligned players. Just because Greg says he's self-aligned does not equate to 'everyone is self-aligned', because we've only got true evidence of ONE self-aligned person. We've got kid killers, and presumably adult mafia killers, and there could be any number of possible scenarios stemming from this.

[Revising Ocelot]

If Snake truly was the only townie then he's either an idiot for making himself a target for policy lynching, or he's done it deliberately to troll the game. Given his behaviour I doubt the latter. And if it was, well, he can go on my ignore list for being so egotistical.

[Gregness]

Yeah, I really doubt that snake was the ONLY townie on D1. This being only my second game I'm not really sure what makes a "balanced" setup, but I figured it was something more like 4-5 mafia, 5 or so town (with at least one recruitment power), possibly a cult leader, and the rest self-aligned.

It would really suck if Snake was the only recruiter for town and he died day 1, but there's a possibility that someone is a sort of deputy mayor who could have picked up his duties (and powers) afterwards.

@RO: You're right that there could be quite a few different scenarios that explain the night kills and lynch posts, but there's no way my role makes sense unless there's recruitment powers around.

[Sifright]

I think there'd be 4 Mafia for a 20 (well, 21, but Snake was late) player game, not 5. AFAIK it's almost always 20% Mafia compared to the rest of the game, cult or otherwise. 25% would be too powerful? Then again, anything's possible given the deliberate ambiguity about roles in the game. I'm currently of the opinion that there's NOT an insane amount of self-aligned players. Just because Greg says he's self-aligned does not equate to 'everyone is self-aligned', because we've only got true evidence of ONE self-aligned person. We've got kid killers, and presumably adult mafia killers, and there could be any number of possible scenarios stemming from this.

This is incorrect on the face of it we know there is at least a serial killer as well so that is direct evidence of two self-aligned players. You then go on to say that the chances of multiple self aligned players is very low


If Snake truly was the only townie then he's either an idiot for making himself a target for policy lynching, or he's done it deliberately to troll the game. Given his behaviour I doubt the latter. And if it was, well, he can go on my ignore list for being so egotistical.

Then you make this post implicitly outing your self as not town and you implied earlier you weren't self aligned and for people to hold off.

unvote:bahamutflare

Vote:Revolving Ocelot

I'm calling you out on that mistake you are scum and probably Mafia, You also tried to rejig the number around amount of mafiates you could be right but erring on the side of caution is always better and we had 21 players in MLP mafia there were 5 mafia 3 cultists and an SK to begin with, so your percentages would be off any way.

So yea totally running the lynch train on you for that.

[Revising Ocelot]

You then go on to say that the chances of multiple self aligned players is very low
No I didn't. I said it's possible that there are lots, and also the other way.

Then you make this post implicitly outing your self as not town and you implied earlier you weren't self aligned and for people to hold off.


I assume it's not necessary to claim I'm town, as that's the Captain Obvious approach to "Snake is not the only townie".

When did I imply earlier I wasn't self-aligned and that people should hold off? The initial voting on me? That wasn't "defending myself from self-aligned accusations", that was defending myself from a comment that was interpreted as being an actual statement of intent

and we had 21 players in MLP mafia

Lies.

##Vote: Sifright

Based off this and your behaviour in earlier days, which I've already pointed out previously. And don't you dare say that I'm trying to policy lynch again.

[Sifright]

No I didn't. I said it's possible that there are lots, and also the other way.



I assume it's not necessary to claim I'm town, as that's the Captain Obvious approach to "Snake is not the only townie".

When did I imply earlier I wasn't self-aligned and that people should hold off? The initial voting on me? That wasn't "defending myself from self-aligned accusations", that was defending myself from a comment that was interpreted as being an actual statement of intent



Lies.

##Vote: Sifright

Based off this and your behaviour in earlier days, which I've already pointed out previously. And don't you dare say that I'm trying to policy lynch again.

You are right, We had 22 players in MLP mafia!

[Sifright]

No I didn't. I said it's possible that there are lots, and also the other way.



I assume it's not necessary to claim I'm town, as that's the Captain Obvious approach to "Snake is not the only townie".

When did I imply earlier I wasn't self-aligned and that people should hold off? The initial voting on me? That wasn't "defending myself from self-aligned accusations", that was defending myself from a comment that was interpreted as being an actual statement of intent



Lies.

##Vote: Sifright

Based off this and your behaviour in earlier days, which I've already pointed out previously. And don't you dare say that I'm trying to policy lynch again.

I don't need to make up a case for lynching you, you


If Snake truly was the only townie then he's either an idiot for making himself a target for policy lynching, or he's done it deliberately to troll the game. Given his behaviour I doubt the latter. And if it was, well, he can go on my ignore list for being so egotistical.

Yea, no. See the way you phrased that post above, totally outs you as not a townie. Given you don't think there are a crazy number of self-aligned players and the fact that I AM SELF-ALIGNED There is no way in hell i'm not leaping on this. 4 people have claimed self aligned with Direct evidence of two others, I'm totally going to gun for you.

The four claims prior to me: Gregness, Ravashak, Smarty, Bahamut flare

Direct evidence: Sleazy, SK

[Revising Ocelot]

See the way you phrased that post above, totally outs you as not a townie.

Sigh. You want an explicit statement? Fine. I'm The Hatless Man, Tricksy Miller, Town. I refuse to wear a hat and scoff at the conventions of everyone else, and I have to dodge the ire of those who look down on 'my bare glory' in disdain. THAT's why I think Snake's not the only town guy, because I'm also town.

[BahamutFlare]

That would completely refute my revelation. If RO is telling the truth, which how he wrote up his words, he was right to be skeptical, and I could see him as town. It'd be nice to see one more townie, but hmm.

I'm going to think about this new thing for a moment.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Unvote: RPG
Vote: RO
"If snake truly was the only townie".... that's a pretty suspect thing to say if you were a townie.
A miller who is told he is a miller thus mitigating the entire point of the miller role? Seems unlikely.

Also the only way to check millers is to actually lynch them because no point sending a cop after you.

[Aldurin]

I don't know, the miller claim seems iffy, especially since it is such a convenient claim for scum.

FoS: Revolving Ocelot

I'll give it some more time before I decide on a vote. I want to see how strong of arguments you guys can put forward.

[Revising Ocelot]

A miller who is told he is a miller thus mitigating the entire point of the miller role? Seems unlikely.


I was Miller in Homestuck Mafia too. I was told I was Miller (Rose Lalonde) in my role PM in HS Mafia, and the same here, too. Difference is that in HS Mafia I didn't know that the Miller was an actual role, so I never acted upon it. Anyway, under your assumption that Moogle was the PO and is now dead I'd have no reason to label myself as Miller since nobody can investigate me now, anyway.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

If you knew you were miller off the bat you woud have claimed it post 1 so copdoesn't waste an investigation on you. No point hiding a miller role, it just fucks the town.
also moogle is onlythe PO according to my mad ideas, I have no evidence for this except that detectives could wear a trilby and there are no more breakins.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Vote Count

Ocelot - 2
Sifright
Smarty

BahamutFlare - 1
rpgdemon

rpgdemon - 1
BahamutFlare

Smarty - 1
Ravashak

Sifright - 1
Ocelot

7 to lynch. ~59 hours left.

[BahamutFlare]

Even if we have a PO, there is no way to confirm or deny the miller claim right? If they're mafia, they show up as mafia. If they're a town miller, they show up as mafia.

If even 1 more townie can role claim, that would at least have a much better shot of saying there is town. 1 thing that bugs me about RO is that he is hatless. HATLESS. Does his character hate hats? Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like a townie would not wear a hat. The entire flavor of his character seems awful. It's such a handicap if he is town.

PS: Sifright doesn't get 2 votes does he? I believe he unvoted me.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Yeah miller is like the perfect scum claim because there is no way for PO to confirm. The onlyway to confirm a miller is by lynching him generally.

[Revising Ocelot]

1 thing that bugs me about RO is that he is hatless. HATLESS. Does his character hate hats? Flavorwise, it doesn't seem like a townie would not wear a hat.

That's why I'm Miller. The existing self-aligned people have been shown to possess hats, be they balaclavas or tin foils.

[BahamutFlare]

As a game designer, who would decide to create a role that says "You're screwed"? I hope I never ever am a Miller ever.

Unvote: RPGdemon

I'm not sure who the bigger target is. We got time before the deadline, so let's just see what happens. Apparently, the majority of the players now are self-aligned. There is no way to see if a miller is telling the truth or not. My suggestion for the rest of this day is to find stronger arguments elsewhere. If we run out of leads, then we can lynch the 'townie'.

If I'm to be honest I can't get any advancement in this organization.
The Boss is a nepotist.

Karesh, from what seems to be the case, I'm curious to who your boss is. It seems most of us are our own bosses.

One last point I want to make is that I have absolutely 0 data on Viridis. Is this inactivity or lurking?

[greed]

Yeah roleclaiming Miller after day one is not a good thing to do Revolving it's far too convenient for scum. I mean even if the PO verifies you they can't can they?

Vote: Revolving Ocelot

Hopefully you're lying.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Karesh, from what seems to be the case, I'm curious to who your boss is. It seems most of us are our own bosses.

One last point I want to make is that I have absolutely 0 data on Viridis. Is this inactivity or lurking?

It.
Was.
A.
Joke.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Like, I'm sorry but, really? I'm so fucking sick of that already.
Three goddamn days, 61 pages of 602 posts and for whatever fucking reason I'm still going over this shit again and again when it's real simple what the damn answer is.

[Sifright]

Like, I'm sorry but, really? I'm so fucking sick of that already.
Three goddamn days, 61 pages of 602 posts and for whatever fucking reason I'm still going over this shit again and again when it's real simple what the damn answer is.

Karesh, i'm going to go out on a limb here, I don't think you are mafia. If RO turns out to be Mafia, which I am pretty certain he will do it will be very easy to work out who the other two mafia members are, one of whom i'm sure is Bahamutflare.

I know you personally were joking day 1, However it is Aldurin whose claim did not come across as jokey day one, maybe that is just me regardless I actually don't think either of you is mafia now.

[Geminex]

Gonna start with
##Vote: RO

Cause that's just... incriminating. It's not even the post so much as it is that, when he could have defended himself, he roleclaimed miller. And I really don't believe the roleclaim. And that kinda calls all the other stuff he's said into question.

In regards to Viridis, I think bookie said at the end of day 2 that he wanted the inactives to start posting or get modkilled.

Karesh, I totally read that as a joke. I think so did most everyone else.

Also, I'm moving at the moment, so my internet access is gonna be severely limited for the next few days. I'll try to contribute as much as I can.

[Ravashak]

Unvote: Smarty McBarrelpants
Vote: Revolving Ocelot

Not much I feel I can add that isn't already said, your last couple posts just show you as scum that made a misstep.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Karesh, I totally read that as a joke. I think so did most everyone else.


THEN WHYYYY DO PEOPLE KEEP BRINGING IT UUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUP

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Also
##Vote: Revolving Ocelot

[rpgdemon]

I think RO and Bahaumut are equally probably scum, might as well vote for the one where it'll mean something.

##unvote: BahaumutFlare
##vote: RO

[BahamutFlare]

Karesh, most all jokes have some truth behind them. I thought it was a joke for D1 and D2, but just the boss line was the part that got me.

I get RO can't be confirmed but wow did this fill up fast. I get the strategy behind it. I get the reasons. We have time. Heck, if Sif and RPG think for sure I am scum and they think that RO could maybe be scum. They should vote for me.

I don't see it being a good mafia tactic to lynch someone when you have leads. Or if this person ends up being mafia, then this guy is mafia too. If this guy is town, then whoops, our bad! I didn't see RO being that scummy the earlier parts of the game.

Why would he role claim the worst job ever? If he was scum and trying to lie, I'd go with the mass amount of self-aligned people. It's seeming like it's safe and easy to blend in then. RO did not come across to me to make such a simple mistake if he was against town.

Vote: RPGdemon

I'd rather go with who I thought was scummy before the role claim rather than worry about a shot of if RO is town or mafia.

[Gregness]

So, here's a thought: how about instead of doing the lynch now we actually make use of the time we have left for discussion?

FoS: Aldurin

Everyone pretty much agreed the D1 roleclaim was scummy but we haven't done anything about it yet since we thought we'd get PO info eventually. Now that that seems unlikely this may be a lead we want to follow up on.

FoS: Revolving Ocelot

I honestly haven't thought he was that scummy, but the timing of his roleclaim was a touch... off. Sif applies just a little bit of pressure and all of a sudden you're claiming? Like, Sif's arguments honestly weren't even that good but you still cracked. That said, with no PO there's basically no incentive to claim miller so I dunno.

[BahamutFlare]

Greg, if there is no reason, then why would he lie about it? You might as well think he claimed town vanilla. That's why I don't think we should vote for him. And I think most of the mafia is voting for him. It's happened way too quick.

[Ravashak]

Unofficial vote count:
Ocelot - 7
Sifright
Smarty
greed
Geminex
Ravashak
Karesh
rpgdemon

Sifright - 1
Ocelot

7 to lynch

(BahamutFlare posted after the lynch, see below)

During the Day:

1. 'Days' last a default time of 96 hours. I will periodically remind you of the approaching deadline. 'Days' will never last longer. Even if I'm not present, the 'Day' will end 96 hours after it began, and all votes tabulated or posts made after the 'Day' ends will not count.
2. Deliberately posting after 'Day' ends will get you Replaced or Modkilled. I'll accept a short 'grace' period because sometimes we make mistakes, but votes will never count if cast after the deadline. If you're still posting content long after 'Day' ends, expect consequences.
3. 'Day' may end before the 96 hour period passes. Whenever anyone has more than 50% of existing players on their lynch, day will automatically end early with the lynching of the player. Again, same rules apply here as with the 96 hour deadline; after more than 50% are on a lynch, you're not supposed to talk.

[Gregness]

Hence FoS and not Vote. I mean he could be claiming miller to throw off suspicion precisely because there's no incentive to, but that's getting into Battle of Wits territory so whatever.

But yeah, more than anything we need to stop this lynch train. Even if you're 100% SURE of your vote, there's basically no downside to discussing as much as possible now and then you can still lynch later.

[Revising Ocelot]

So someone badgers me with 'You Didn't Say Who You Are So That Means You're Automatically Scum", I roleclaim in response and that's considered to not be a defense. Huh.

Smarty said himself that there's no reason to delay roleclaiming Miller, so what's the problem with saying it now instead of when I would be under the true spotlight? And since there's no PO, I wouldn't need to mention I'm Miller anyway, as there's nothing to be gained from it besides, y'know, being truthful. So stating the truth gets a large bandwagon going on me. I don't get it.

Since Moogle seems to have been the PO, he commited suicide after investigating Aldurin. I've been thinking that Aldurin must have had some kind of protection to make the investigation fail with deadly results. It implies the Mafia - or someone self-aligned - has some kind of Bodyguard/Roleblockerish type role, who protected Aldurin and effectively made Moogle suicide when he targeted Ald.

Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on Sif for his weird arguments. Gem and Rav notched themselves higher on my suspicion list though, and as for Viridis... well, if he's not been modkilled by now, that means he's sending night roles. Which implicates him massively.

[BahamutFlare]

I didn't know we made it that high that quick. I thought we kinda still had time. Sorry. I'm done until Bookworm comes then.

[Mr.Bookworm]

As a consensus is reached, the mob readies the rope and looks around.

But the victim is nowhere to be found...

Day 3 over, Night 3 start. 48 hours to send in Night roles.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Another night, another few murders.

You find two people lying next to each other in a pool of blood, one holding an ax. The man wearing a gatsby has been rather messily hacked to death. The woman with the ax has a massive hat made out of fruit lying near her, and has been stabbed in the back and the legs several times.

Across the town, you find a woman with a cloche hat lying on top of her face, her hands folded neatly across her chest. She has been shot in the head.

Smarty (stabbed), Viridis (hacked), and Sifright (shot) are all DEAD.

Night 3 over, Day 4 begin. 5 to lynch. ~96 hours left.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

So lets think about Ocelot again:

One, he is either ignorant of facets of his role, was protected by someone else or lied through omission about his roles capabilities. I find the first two unlikely, and the third rather incriminating.

I can't quite make up my mind on it through the flu I've come down with. But I'll say this: By tomorrow I'll have made up my mind on whether it's more likely a mafiate that has a saving grace, or a townie.
FOS: Revolving Ocelot

[Professor Smarmiarty]

DICKS

[Mr.Bookworm]

GET THE FUCK BACK IN THE BOX

[BahamutFlare]

About RO:

1) Do Mafia Lords get 1 life? Is that a possible theory?

2) If he is unlynchable, then that seems like the Tricksy part of his name. Also, a mafia man being unlynchable is really overpowered. The town wouldn't have a chance of killing him without a SK or a Vig.

About the fastest bandwagon that happened while I slept, I believe that town started the bandwagon and scum finished it. There was no reason for that to fill up so quickly. We had time to get more information and not have needless deaths. A night was not what we needed.

If #1 is the right method, then scum would have no problem using one life to mess with everyone. They could vote, and send it into night, so more people die. And with a good chance nothing bad happens to them. To those that claimed self-aligned yesterday, I trust you. Anyone that didn't claim, I bet those are the people we need to look at.

Whoever were the last couple to vote, please tell me why you wouldn't FoS instead of vote? Why end the day that early?

FoS: Most of you.
Hugs: Smarty's dead body.

[rpgdemon]

I voted since I didn't know it'd end the day early, since I figured we were still a ways off. I was actually worried about my vote going to waste, and since I thought they were both equally shifty, I decided to go for the one who I thought would count for something.

[Aldurin]

Well this night was pretty good news. The serial killer is gone (you can never trust those fruit ladies) but unfortunately we didn't nail any kids. Since we appeared to have lost mafiates on the other 2 nights I think it's very safe to assume that there is either 1 mafia left or (I hope not) there's 2 left.

Hopefully our vote or the vigilante can take him down so we can win.

On the matter of that.

FoS: Revolving Ocelot

I want an explanation for that, if he really is townie then he should fully describe just what the fuck happened when we wasted a lynch on him. Being able to dodge a lynch once bothers me immensely since we don't know if whatever caused that to happen was an x-shot or unlimited. If his story checks out then we should not waste votes on him.

[Ravashak]

So, Mafia stabbed the SK (SMB)
SK axed an inactive self-aligned (Viridis)
Vig shot an agressive self-aligned (Sifright)

It's a pity noone targetted RO at night, though I guess that's due to our inability to lynch him last day. My theory on that is that RO is the don, and that the don is invulnerable until all regular mafiates are dead (this is the reason I'd have liked a night kill to attempt to kill him). This would help explain the quickness of the lynch, mafiates were free to vote for RO in the knowledge that it'd cause a no-lynch and thus alleviate/spread possible suspicion.

[greed]

The problem with this is if RO is mafia there is likely to be at most 1 more mafiate. 1/5 of the town is the normal size, so 4 is the most likely size. And as the kids seem to be mafiates it's likely two are already gone. I think we just thought lynching RO was a good idea, and it was, and it got away from us cause we forgot how small the game had gotten.

You're right that if that was RO's power as mafiate the other scum probably did join the lynch train though.

With Sifright and Smarty dead and confirmed as not being children (and therefore probably not mafiates) that leaves

-Me
-Geminex
-Ravashak
-RPGDemon
-Karesh

As potential mafiates under this hypothesis.


Of course this could all be bull and someone else could have used that power on RO cause they thought he was innocent but that seems unlikely. He couldn't have used that power himself and been vanilla either, seeing as he wouldn't have said he was a mason then and I doubt he'd be a mason with an another power.

[rpgdemon]

Of course this could all be bull and someone else could have used that power on RO cause they thought he was innocent but that seems unlikely. He couldn't have used that power himself and been vanilla either, seeing as he wouldn't have said he was a mason then and I doubt he'd be a mason with an another power.

Woah woah woah what?

Did Greed just completely screw up and let an important thing slip? He never said anything about being a Mason, he said he was miller.

[greed]

Screw up, I meant Miller

[greed]

Additionally I was also thinking of posting about Aldurin at the time who I think might be a mason for reasons I outlined earlier.

[Geminex]

One, he is either ignorant of facets of his role, was protected by someone else or lied through omission about his roles capabilities. I find the first two unlikely, and the third rather incriminating.

Hmmm. Looking at the thread, Ravashak votecounted, and posted that snippet from the rules at 10 past 7 (German time). He drew our attention to the fact that the day was effectively over, now that there were 7 votes on one person.

RO still made a post defending himself after that, though, even making a point of keeping his vote on Sif. Given that the day was over, and he was, by all appearances getting lynched, it seems strange that he'd bother to write out a defence, unless he knew he'd survive the lynch.

Mind you, he might just have written up the defense before Rav posted, and then gone "Eh, screw it, ima post it anyway", but given the suspicion he's already drawn, I'm inclined to believe that he knew he wouldn't die.

What allays my suspicions a bit is a point that's already been made. The thought of a mafiate with immunity to even one lynch seems really weird (read: unbalanced). And despite his previous contradictions, and his failure to claim it when it made sense (day 1), I could imagine him having an immunity to a single lynch, in order to make up for the downsides of the miller role.

Anyway, those are just preliminary thoughts. I'd like to hear from him before going any further.

Don't really have any comments on the nightkills. Good to see the SK's dead. No idea what Viridis or Sifright could have been, but neither of them really had any distinctive hat, so Ima assume some nondescript role.

With Sifright and Smarty dead and confirmed as not being children (and therefore probably not mafiates) that leaves

-Me
-Geminex
-Ravashak
-RPGDemon
-Karesh
A few more than that. Here's everyone who's ~still alive~

2. Gregness
8. Karesh
9. Revolving Ocelot
10. Aldurin
11. Geminex
13. BahamutFlare
14. Greed
16. Ravashak
18. rpgdemon

None of us have really proven their innocence yet, have we? Or am I missing something?

[greed]

As potential mafiates under this hypothesis.

You left this out. I'm not saying those I listed are definitely the only candidates for scum I'm just saying I agree that the idea that RO is scum and knew he had this lynch avoidance power and that he may have gotten his scumbuddy/ies to vote for him knowing he'd be fine, makes sense and that I think that the ones I listed (excepting me of course) are the most likely to be scum.

[greed]

In addition this makes two people with lynch avoidance powers, Aldurin or whoever helped him with the green text bribe power, and RO. The chances of both these people with similar powers being town seems pretty unlikely.

I stated earlier that green text is probably unlikely to be mafiate as thus far the revealed roles have come up with traditional colours, indicating mafiates should show as red. Green is usually masonry or secondary mafia. And this game is probably too small for two mafias so to me Masonry or self aligned seems more likely.

This makes me believe that RO is most likely scum. If he's not then it's probably Aldurin and Bookie is screwing with us with the colours.

[BahamutFlare]

Gregness
Myself
Ravashak

We all announced self-aligned. Gregness did this first especially knowing that would make him the highest SK possibility. I think this would confirm at least him of being self-aligned. I feel inclined to believe Ravashak too.

These two may not have proven innocence, but I would feel it's a safe bet trusting them.

And as for proving innocence, I doubt anyone of us can prove it, Gem, but Greed's hypothesis makes sense. If mafia knew RO was a safe target for lynches, they would've facilitated it as much as possible for some free kills. If RO doesn't say anything, we have to be prepared to ask ourselves, do we try lynching him again hoping it works? Or take our chances lynching someone else?

[rpgdemon]

We don't actually know that SK is dead, it might be the Vig was the axeman, and the SK could shoot people. The flavor for this game is all sorts of weird.

[Ravashak]

True, but if my theory is that there is no town is correct, they'd both be self-aligned night killers at this point. Might as well call the one that does it cleaner the vigilante, though it's just what name you apply to it.

Furthermore, I agree with greed, that unless someone has a better idea, I feel our best option is to pick one from his list, as I feel there's at least one, possibly two mafiate(s) in it. Two mafiates is assuming a 5-man mafia, a size I believe they are, since I don't believe there's any non-mafiate that has no power (one-shots are possible, though, like I suspect the extra vote on day 1 to be). Currently, I'm most inclined to vote for rpgdemon, due to casting the last vote, ending the day quite a bit faster than necessary.

[BahamutFlare]

Something strikes me a bit suspicious about Karesh too.

I'd put RPG as top suspicion. There's really no excuse that can be made with proof. He could've not counted the votes or he could be scum that purposefully ended the day. What I don't get is why everyone went straight to vote instead of FoS. I still don't understand it. Your vote would've counted the same the next day. But this is just me being frustrated.

[Aldurin]

Well I'm going to go out and say that I think Ravashak is definitely non-scum given his behavior. The votecounts and other parts of his posting often help clarify and maintain facts and information, which is excellent form for town.

I also think greed is non-scum just because his behavior lacks any of the tells that I noticed last game when he was scum, so I would bet that he's not scum.

The fact that we have so many self-aligned people is worrying since I think part of Karesh's posting and coverups was him thinking that he was the only self-aligned and thus anti-town in his own way, similar to how I reacted. I think he's non-scum, though not as solidly sure as with the others.

I'll look at the others later, I just had to point these guys out since their behaviors don't seem as dubious as the others (though in Karesh's case I think it may have been a bad reaction to being self-aligned).

I kinda want to vote RO for now but I'm worried that more votes may pile on and then we get quickhammered for a wasted lynch or a townie lynch. FoS maintained.

[Aldurin]

Also, I recommend voting RO later if he doesn't respond before the final 24 hours of the day as long as we don't have any stronger leads. If he is non-scum then he should just show up and clarify our concerns.

[rpgdemon]

Anyway, I'm keeping my vote on Sif for his weird arguments. Gem and Rav notched themselves higher on my suspicion list though, and as for Viridis... well, if he's not been modkilled by now, that means he's sending night roles. Which implicates him massively.

I was looking through the old posts, and this caught my eye as odd.

Also, curiously, RO's name isn't at all changed in the OP. No "Missing" or anything by his name.

[Aldurin]

Oh right. HEY BOOKWORM! Is Revolving Ocelot actually missing in like he can't post at all or is he totally here and choosing not to post?

[Geminex]

You left this out. I'm not saying those I listed are definitely the only candidates for scum I'm just saying I agree that the idea that RO is scum and knew he had this lynch avoidance power and that he may have gotten his scumbuddy/ies to vote for him knowing he'd be fine, makes sense and that I think that the ones I listed (excepting me of course) are the most likely to be scum.
Oh, I see. That makes sense, then. Kinda, anyway.
First, I think there was something of a legitimate case against RO. Contradictory claims, and a buch of smaller stuff throughout the game. It made sense for non-mafiates to vote for him.

Second, assuming RO is scum... I think RO's lynch avoidance power would be one-shot, at best. You can't give a mafiate any more than that. As such, unless RO's demise was certain, it wouldn't necessarily make sense for other mafiates to vote for him. I mean, yes, they're earning themselves brownie points with the town, but they are also contributing to the lynch. And while RO didn't die, I'm pretty sure he lost his lynch protection. So if he was mafia, his scummates would've weakened their own team. Y'see where I'm going with this?

Mafia might have voted for RO, but it makes just as much sense, if not more (evidence, not weakening their own team) for non-mafiates to vote for him. I don't think we should just focus on that list.

We don't actually know that SK is dead, it might be the Vig was the axeman, and the SK could shoot people. The flavor for this game is all sorts of weird.
Lady with an enormous fruit hat, who hacks people apart with a giant axe? Even with super-weird flavor, that is never a vig. Like, I get that we can't take anything for granted, but I can't imagine any reason for the Vig having that flavor. It's gotta be the SK.

If RO doesn't say anything, we have to be prepared to ask ourselves, do we try lynching him again hoping it works? Or take our chances lynching someone else?
I wanna hear from RO. If that doesn't happen, and we don't get any further information on him, I'm gonna assume he's hanging back and hoping we forget about him. So pretty much what Earl said:
Also, I recommend voting RO later if he doesn't respond before the final 24 hours of the day as long as we don't have any stronger leads. If he is non-scum then he should just show up and clarify our concerns.
If he's innocent, he can come out and talk to us. If he's not talking, I'll vote, in the absence of other leads.

I also think greed is non-scum just because his behavior lacks any of the tells that I noticed last game when he was scum, so I would bet that he's not scum.
Which tells are these, out of curiosity?

[BahamutFlare]

It's all a waiting game right now. I don't like giving RO time to think of an excuse. And more time passing means more time to think of a valid excuse for him. If he was truthful, then a quick response should've come quickly. Correct?

It's been a few days and no one has claimed a town role. I've gotta believe that the rest of us are self-aligned people. We may as well consider self-aligned to be a town structure. Everyone that claimed town lied. Smarty was a SK/Vig. We can't prove RO yet, but he's high on the priority list.

Gem, someone else said it before, but I think we may have two SK's. And at this point, we could call them Vig or SK...depending on how you want to see things. Unless someone else claims town and IS town, there's no way for us to think that a town exists. We have a group of self-aligned people, and there's a good chance we all win if all other non-self-aligned are dead.

I'll be voting RO as long as nothing else happens.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Oh right. HEY BOOKWORM! Is Revolving Ocelot actually missing in like he can't post at all or is he totally here and choosing not to post?

Yes.

[Aldurin]

Which tells are these, out of curiosity?

That's the problem with it, I go by this very questionable gut instinct analysis of general behavior which you know all too well isn't reliable to a certain degree. It's like what almost made me auto-lynch him last game doesn't seem to show up to me this game. I think generally I just go by how much people contribute when they post and how often they post.

[Ravashak]

I think it'd be a mistake to lynch RO again. While it is possible that he only had a single extra life / lynch evasion, we can be pretty sure there's more scum in the game (3 just seems too few, I personally think 5 mafiates total). Why would we use our lynch on this while we should try to get the other mafiates? Especially considering that RO might simply be completely lynchproof (or until certain other criteria are met).

Then there's also still the option (though I consider this a bit less likely) that RO is what he said he was, a miller (self-aligned instead of town, though, i still doubt Town exists), whose "tricksy" special is an immunity (either one or unlimited times) to lynches. This would make voting RO this day an incredibly safe choice for the Mafia, they'd be able to vote for him relatively safely, while preventing any of them from being lynched.

Anyways, whether RO is scum (don) or not, I feel it's a mistake to vote for him now, and in order to hopefully get some more discussion, I'm going to vote for the one that showed the strongest intent on voting RO at this point in time.

Vote: BahamutFlare


Yes.<3

[rpgdemon]

I actually agree with everything that you said. I've suspected Bahamut for awhile as well (I voiced my concerns earlier), and the fact that he wants us to potentially throw away a lynch is just weird.

Like, with no clarification, we have no reason to think that we can lynch RO, and going, "I'm not gonna vote yet, but I will vote for him as soon as he doesn't post" is just kind of odd. I get not wanting to rush the day over, but at the same time, saying that if RO doesn't post means that he's still here and we should hit him is just poor logic. It's a 50/50 shot that it's a bust if we go for him.

[BahamutFlare]

If we get nothing by the final day, I'd feel inclined to vote RO. I've been saying I wanted to wait. I didn't vote him yesterday because I feel we were too hasty. By no way am I going to make a hasty decisions when there's 2 more mafiates. I'd rather figure out who those two are.

Aldurin seems just as inclined to vote RO if you really want to use that as a reason. That's just awful reasoning.

My gut is still telling me RPG is scum. That's my first reaction.
Karesh is second on my list. Karesh is a hunch tbh.
If RO doesn't say anything, I think he rises to the occasion as #1. But whether we lynch or hope that the Vig/SK targets him at night is what I'm not sure of. If he is town, he should be able to explain. If he isn't, then he'll probably stay silent. There's multiple scenarios that could happen. I'm thinking of the best one which is why I won't vote until the final day. Now is this fair to think about and ponder out loud? If this is scummy, then by all means, everyone vote me. Let's be hasty and get it over with.

Vote: BahamutFlare

Yes, I will probably be a tad more angry the rest of the game for everyone that voted RO on D3.

My claim is self-aligned btw. Decide to find out now or at a later time.

[BahamutFlare]

Well, I guess rules state we can't vote for ourselves. Even to prove a point.

Unvote: BahamutFlare
FoS: Everyone that voted for RO except for the dead ones and the first couple of votes.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Then there's also still the option (though I consider this a bit less likely) that RO is what he said he was, a miller (self-aligned instead of town, though, i still doubt Town exists), whose "tricksy" special is an immunity (either one or unlimited times) to lynches. This would make voting RO this day an incredibly safe choice for the Mafia, they'd be able to vote for him relatively safely, while preventing any of them from being lynched.


I don't find this very likely. There's no such thing as a Self aligned miller. Millers are townies that turn up as scum, so if you're already scum you can't turn up as scum and call it a power.
Further the flavor makes no mention of aid in the escape, so I don't believe it was anything but his own power that caused it to happen. The Double stacking of powers doesn't make sense.

[greed]

Which tells are these, out of curiosity?

At a guess I'd say it's the fact my playstyle has shifted entirely from "just enough activity to avoid being modkilled" to "active part of the game".

And yeah as I said above the whole disappearing thing makes me think claiming Miller was bullshit and his actual power was the disappearances. Which would mean the only reason to claim miller would be being worried about being investigated and found out as a mafiate.

[Aldurin]

I don't find this very likely. There's no such thing as a Self aligned miller. Millers are townies that turn up as scum, so if you're already scum you can't turn up as scum and call it a power.
Further the flavor makes no mention of aid in the escape, so I don't believe it was anything but his own power that caused it to happen. The Double stacking of powers doesn't make sense.

And flavor-wise it would make sense that a kid could have the ability to escape a lynch once since they're slippery little plotters. I am fully convinced at this point that RO is actually scum. The issue is if we test to see if the lynch immunity is an x-shot or we try to find other scum to see if that would bust that power.

[Aldurin]

24 hours left roughly, so I'm gonna follow through.

Vote: Revolving Ocelot

I just hope that nobody tries to run a quickhammer on this, we should milk this day for information.

Speaking of which, since we're now down to this point we really need to look at the inactives since that would be the best place to hide as scum at this point.

[rpgdemon]

In lieu of burning a potential lynch, now that we're down to 24 hours, I'm going to:

Vote: BahamutFlare

And I will be suspicious of people who potentially might throw away a lynch on hitting RO again, when we have other leads.

Like, I am suspicious of everyone who shut down discussion entirely by going, "Just wait until the last day, then we can talk since that will totally prove it!", despite there being no way at all to prove things by waiting.

[rpgdemon]

I just hope that nobody tries to run a quickhammer on this, we should milk this day for information.

Like, we could have been doing this exactly, already, if you guys didn't insist on waiting to the last day.

[Gregness]

I don't think the intention was to halt every damn thing 'till the last day. I think it was more that we should take all this time for actual discussion rather than losing a good 36 hours to a premature lynch like yesterday.

Of course, since discussion's been almost nonexistent it's been kinda pointless.

FoS: Aldurin

In addition to the suspicions surrounding his D1 pseudo-roleclaim never really being addressed, now he wants us to try and lynch RO again?

[Aldurin]

now he wants us to try and lynch RO again?

As a last resort in the absence of any strong leads, I'm still not convinced about the other votes floating about.

[BahamutFlare]

RPG, you already know who I am and it's not mafia. Quit trying to vote me. If you don't, then think a little. You're smarter then this. Yes it explains everything you think. If you're self-aligned, you'll realize how much sense this makes and unvote. I hope you realize what this cryptic message means.

Aldurin, I think is playing it smart, because he has no leads. However, his strategy is equally smart for a clueless townie or a mafia with inside info. And I never was able to get a read on him.

TBH, I want to take greed's list, and reverse it. What Gem said makes more sense to me. Mafia wouldn't want to waste a life on RO if he was don and had 2. However, realize that all this talk, we don't even WANT to lynch RO again until the end. Because this happened, he may be invincible until endgame.

I want to take who I think is most suspicious that didn't vote for RO, and follow what Gem said. This brings the list to me vs Aldurin. Which makes my path of thinking decide that I'm probably going to vote Aldurin. Besides first reactions usually are right, and it was weird on D1.

##Vote: Aldurin

Final note, everyone does know bookworm did not answer anything right? He just said yes. and there were two questions.

[greed]

Personally I think Bahmut hasn't been acting particularly scummy. He's been mostly acting inexperienced. So not going to vote for him, yet.

In my opinion the scummiest are RO and RPG.


Also I stick by my list. I think that however they may have jumped onto the train late when they realised it was inevitable and they weren't going to shift it. The last person to vote for RO was RPG.

Also when you think someone let slip that they're a mason like he did you don't call attention to it. You hope no scum notice. Putting it out in the open is scummy as hell as it calls attention to a town power role. Note I'm not a mason but RPG thought I might have admitted to being one (or the PO seeing as that's the only other way to know) and then jumped up and down alerting people to the fact.

so


VOTE: RPGDEMON

[Mr.Bookworm]

Vote Count

Bahamut
Ravashak
rpgdemon

RO
Aldurin

Aldurin
Bahamut

rpgdemon
greed

~17 hours left. 5 to lynch.

[rpgdemon]

Personally I think Bahmut hasn't been acting particularly scummy. He's been mostly acting inexperienced. So not going to vote for him, yet.

In my opinion the scummiest are RO and RPG.


Also I stick by my list. I think that however they may have jumped onto the train late when they realised it was inevitable and they weren't going to shift it. The last person to vote for RO was RPG.

Also when you think someone let slip that they're a mason like he did you don't call attention to it. You hope no scum notice. Putting it out in the open is scummy as hell as it calls attention to a town power role. Note I'm not a mason but RPG thought I might have admitted to being one (or the PO seeing as that's the only other way to know) and then jumped up and down alerting people to the fact.

so


VOTE: RPGDEMON

I thought that Mason was a separate scum faction? That's what everyone had been implying.

[Ravashak]

Not necessarily, last game, I was mason'd, but still town. It pretty much meant we were allowed to communicate outside of the forum thread.

As for me, I'm keeping my vote on BahamutFlare. The reaction to my vote (which wasn't too serious at that point, as I've stated in the post I made the vote in) seems excessively defensive, followed by a self-vote. Then, 8 minutes later, this vote was undone, due to it being "against the rules" (which isn't as far as I can tell, last game, Sifright self-voted pretty much every day the first couple days to strengthen his statements), this fast correction feels too much like someone pointing it out, and I suspect this is through mafia communication.

Besides, I don't feel that BahamutFlare's self-aligned claim was too strong, considering it happened after Gregness', mine and I think SMB's. Add this to the knowledge that Sleazy was self-aligned, as well as my theory when I claimed, and it wouldn't be too strange for a/multiple mafiates to do the same, trying to spread the risk.

And greed, I don't understand your vote on rpgdemon. You made a mistake and typed mason instead of miller a bit earlier, rpgdemon asked about what you meant, you corrected it, and now he's scummy for calling you out on a mistake (which, at this point, I believe was an innocent one)?

[Geminex]

I thought that Mason was a separate scum faction? That's what everyone had been implying.
That's cult, not masons. Masons are townies who know about each other. Masons are good for town. Cultists are bad.

As for the rest, still reading up on stuff, haven't had internet for two days now.

[Geminex]

Right. Couple of things.

First, RO lynch, I've been having second thoughts. I mean, yes, I said I'd vote for him if he didn't post in time, but that was more to get him to freaking post. And now that he hasn't, I don't believe that he'd risk another lynch just for the sake of keeping quiet and hoping we forget about him when we clearly haven't. What if he really can't post today, as a result of "disappearing" at the end of last day? Hell, what if disappearing wasn't even his own power? I could imagine a role that just removes a player from the game for a day. Protects them from harm and prevents them from doing anything. It'd just be a powered-up jailer (http://mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php?title=Jailkeeper). And if that was the case, that wouldn't tell us anything about RO, really.

I'm just not sure what the hell is up with him, and somehow, I think we should give him a chance to explain. I'm not exonerating him or anything, he's still suspicious as fuck because the stuff he said yesterday, but I don't think he's not posting because he wants to. And given that, I dunno about the people voting for him. We've got him in our sights, we can wait to hear what he has to say, and go for other people now. There's gotta be at least one mafiate still around.

Of course, who to go for?

Greed's arguments seem strange. There's been quite a bit of finger-pointing at RPG, but I've never noticed him doing anything really incriminating. Yes, he hammered the last RO vote without any explanation or justification, which in itself seems weird, but that happens. Someone has to be last to vote, and while the lack of explanation is fishy, it's not enough to justify a lynch in my mind. And I think cult and mason are sufficiently interchangable so as to make that kinda mistake. Hell, it wouldn't even have been in scum's interests to point it out publicly, since then can talk to each other in private. I don't think he's a good target.

Bahamut is weird, though. The overreaction to Ravashak is in itself suspicious, and his behavior is contradictory. He advocates lynching RO if no other leads pop up, and when the time comes to lynch RO, he unceremoniously votes for Earl. Earl hadn't done anything to warrant additional suspicion, and the argument that Bahamut's agreeing with is one I made a while ago. All that really happened between Bahamut defending his proposed RO vote, and voting for Earl is him getting called out on his RO vote. It seems like he's trying to dodge suspicion more than anything else, and that's scummy.

Plus, this.

RPG, you already know who I am and it's not mafia. Quit trying to vote me. If you don't, then think a little. You're smarter then this. Yes it explains everything you think. If you're self-aligned, you'll realize how much sense this makes and unvote. I hope you realize what this cryptic message means.
The hell? Cryptic message indeed, but I don't get it. Maybe there's something behind it, maybe you're bluffing. And given all the other stuff, I'm gonna assume it's the latter.

So ##VOTE: Bahamutflare

[greed]

Well admittedly I was adding to other stuff about him you mentioned in my head. But yeah good points actually. Alright I can accept he might have made a mistake and that pointing it out while not good for the town probably isn't scummy. More bad town move I guess.

Alright

UNVOTE: RPGDEMON
VOTE; BAHAMUTFLARE

[Ravashak]

Warning to those that want to use the full day, we are now at 4 out of 5 required votes for a lynch.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I still think RO is our best bet. But we can't confirm that lynching him again wouldn't just be a wasted vote, so I'll concede on that.

I'm somewhat concerned about your reasoning though, Gem.

It seems like he's trying to dodge suspicion more than anything else, and that's scummy.

To be frank... I believe everyone would be trying to dodge suspicion in that circumstance. Even a townie won't willfully do something that makes them seem like scum.
I kind of see where you're coming from with that argument, but if you could rationalize it a bit better that'd be nice.

[Geminex]

I kind of see where you're coming from with that argument, but if you could rationalize it a bit better that'd be nice.
Well, nobody wants to get lynched, that's true. But it's in the interest of town to lynch the mafiate. As such, they want to vote for the guy they think is the mafiate.

Whereas scum doesn't necessarily care as much whom they hit. They have nightkills to do the work for them, they simply want to survive the day. Sure, sometimes they're gonna push to lynch a specific target, but the rule, to me, is that mafia just want to survive the day.
-
When bahamut changed his vote, he showed that 'not seeming suspicious' is less important to him than 'targeting the player who I think represents scum'. At least that's how I interpreted it. Sure, he might be a self-aligned power role. But this is just one of three major scumtells. The overreaction, the contradictory behavior, and the really vague possibly-kinda-maybe roleclaim.

That make more sense`?

[BahamutFlare]

Well, F it. die tonight or die now. Let's go for tonight.

RPGdemon did guess who I am before. I am the dreaded SK or Vig if you want to think that self-aligned is a town faction. That's how I thought Fenris and Hawk were scum. I couldn't prove it. I couldn't say, "Oh I did do something about it. I targeted them." Sif was really just aggressive with little valid points made.

Gem, I may be acting that way for 3 reasons. I am the SK, and D3 just messed with my mind. I shouldn't have posted after RL traumatic events. I'm nowhere near as calm as I was before, and going with first instinct has been shot to heck. Really thinking in general has not been working. I've dropped SO many tells RPG picked up on.

[/cryptic message]

[BahamutFlare]

Actually, I am the Self-aligned Vig. I'm not a SK kinda. I thought it did day SK before. But I guess I forgot a few weeks later.

the Man in the Ushanka, Vigilant Killer, self-aligned.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

That make more sense`?

Yes, it very much does. I want to vote BF, and if nobody else does I will eventually. But for now I think we need more day time to discuss things.

[Aldurin]

Actually, I am the Self-aligned Vig. I'm not a SK kinda. I thought it did day SK before. But I guess I forgot a few weeks later.

the Man in the Ushanka, Vigilant Killer, self-aligned.

Actually, I have an idea for BF to prove his claim. If he really is the self-aligned vigilante, then let him target Revolving Ocelot. If he shows up dead by gunshot wound then we can pretty much tell that you are the vig.

Conveniently, if you are lying, the vig could counterclaim by simply killing you during the night.

I recommend we drop the BF lynch on the fact that we could easily work this out over the night.

The question would be, what do we do with the remaining lynch for today?

[BahamutFlare]

I think how it would go is the mafia would just kill me in the night. I'd get the target of RO in, but we don't know if there's a role blocker or bodyguard that the mafia has that can protect RO.

While, there are a few flaws with your plan, you guys decide whether or not to lynch the Vig. or how you want me to prove I am the Vig if it is possible.

To self-aligned town, I hope you guys have a back-up plan either way. Mafia would get 2 kills.

If you guys don't lynch me, then lynch whoever is second, tell me the majority for NK target, and then by the no counter-claim and that, I guess it'd prove I'm me.

[Gregness]

Okay, the problem I have with this is that it seems to me that ANY self aligned player with a kill role is basically identical to a SK. So, say we get to use your kill for our benefit for a night or two, we're still gonna have to lynch you eventually if there's no town recruiters left.

[Ravashak]

My main problem is that no one is bringing up a good case for a lynch on someone else. If there were decent cases against multiple persons at the same time, I might be inclined to shift my vote. As it is now, though I don't see an alternative that's acceptable.

[Aldurin]

My main problem is that no one is bringing up a good case for a lynch on someone else. If there were decent cases against multiple persons at the same time, I might be inclined to shift my vote. As it is now, though I don't see an alternative that's acceptable.

Exactly why I'm not sure if we should jump on the "harness the kinda-vig" plan. Regardless, I'm not going to vote for BF so that we can milk the day for information.

[BahamutFlare]

Gregness, it's why I assumed I was a SK for a while. If I was recruited, it sounds like I would be Town Vig, but Snake being dead, doesn't sound so likely now. Also, realize that your win condition is everyone else being dead, so you can't possibly win either. Your main goal should be to treat self-aligned as town. If self-aligned wins, town wins. That sort of deal.

What you get out of lynching me is the potential to kill a mafia at night. And if mafia has 3 members still, then they make up nearly 50% of the population.

Unvote: Aldurin

If he was mafia, he'd have jumped on the chance to finish me off. Is there a good reason mafia wouldn't jump on me as the final vote? A chance to kill the Vig would be such a help to mafia. They'd basically be at victory and with outing 1 member for a maybe easy lynch for town the next day?

To Gem...Smarty, Aldurin, and I have been seeing scummy things from RPG during the course of the game. You not seeing anything from him is kinda weird. You seemed insightful to glance over his things.

Vote: RPGdemon

[Gregness]

Yeah, I've sort of conceded the fact that I can't actually "win" at this point. I'm just in it to see the mafia lose. =8^)

[BahamutFlare]

No Gregness, you win if mafia loses. We are the town. Sure, we are just a group of misfits. All self-aligned and stuff, but we as our united self-alignedness becomes the power of town! And we shall smite those little children down in a barrage of ropes and gunfire. Or if I'm dead, ropes!

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

To be honest the whole thing sounds a bit like RPGs gambit to somehow win last game by getting cozy with the town, which was bullshit.

[BahamutFlare]

There was a town last game you know. In this game, there isn't a town. Or not a single townie has claimed other than RO and Snake of course. That would be a big difference.

Ask yourself, are you town? Or are you mafia? If you've answered no to both questions, you're in the majority. This game hasn't seemed normal by any means. And it's time to think outside the box. If I live past this day, do I intend to win? No. I expect mafia to kill me tonight if I live.

Sure, I'm a killer and in most cases a self-aligned killer is SK. But we are of the same alignment. Most of you are self-aligned too. Meaning we are on the same side. Town (self-aligned), you have to basically get EVERY lynch right these next few days to win if there are 3 mafia members. Good luck if I hang!

[Aldurin]

So are we getting an extra day or something?

[Geminex]

Dunno. (www.youtube.com/watch?v=t348e24vDyA)

Let's wait for Bookie to say something.

[Mr.Bookworm]

As you close in around the homeless man, lurking at the edges of the crowd, he pulls out a gun and waves it wildly, shouting for you to get away. Before he can fire it, the mob tackles him, kicks the gun away, and strings him up from a lamppost.

BahamutFlare, the Man in the Ushanka, Vigilant Killer, self-aligned has been lynched.

Day 4 over, Night 5 begin. 48 hours to send in Night roles.

[Mr.Bookworm]

At the dawn of the day, you awaken to find only a single body lying in the streets. You know the end is near.

You find a rather tough-looking man in a balaclava stabbed to death, bleeding out in the gutter.

There has also been another break-in, at the home of Karesh, although nothing has been taken.

Gregness (stabbed) is DEAD.

Day 5 start. 7 players left, 4 to lynch. ~96 hours left.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Also, sidenote: I just realized that I fucked up the Night 3 post. Smarty's house was broken into.

Nonsidenote: Everyone needs to post. Eveeeeeeeeryone.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Well, that's rather interesting. If the breakins were investigations why would they need to take something?
I think it was a roleblock, which failed because I have no night power.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Ah, what the hell.
##Vote: Geminex.

[greed]

Maybe it's because I just woke up, but why Gem?

[rpgdemon]

Maybe it's because I just woke up, but why Gem?

^This.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

I was about to go to bed so I just figured I'd vote whoever looked most scummy in case we could get a quick lynch going overnight.

[Ravashak]

That's incorrect, Karesh. The break-in can't be the roleblock, since it was used on SMB night 3, and he still murdered Viridis. This leads me to assume that it is the PO after all, who investigated both Aldurin and Karesh. That makes up almost 50% of town that would be investigated or known by the PO. At this point, I feel the PO might as well come out and claim and point out whether people are mafia or not. Sure, it'd make the person a prime target for mafia, but if not now, then when?

If we don't get anyone coming out, I'll throw a vote myself and explain it in about 24 hours, until then, I think we should hold off on voting as much as possible.

[Geminex]

I was about to go to bed so I just figured I'd vote whoever looked most scummy in case we could get a quick lynch going overnight.

... The hell?

You vote for me (seemingly) randomly, your justification is 'I was going to bed', and you admit to wanting to get a 'quick lynch' going?

That is scummy as fuck.

I mean, your vote for me might be legitimate, but if it was, then the proper response to "Why?" would have been to list your reasons for thinking me scummy. Instead you claimed that I "looked scummy", as if that was somehow plainly apparent (trying to get the rest of us to think that it was?), and then going on to say that you were hoping I'd get lynched quickly.

Given that "quick lynches" that end the day early are really only attractive for scum, and the fact that you've tossed out an unjustified vote at me with the hopes of achieving one going, you've just propelled yourself to the top of my FOS list.

So FOS: Karesh

The only reason I'm not voting is that I can't believe scum would be quite so blatant, and I wanna hear your response.

In regards to the roleblock thing, I agree with Rav. The breakins are not roleblocks. Might be whoever it is got roleblocked on night 2 (no break-in there, right?)

Mind you, I've already stated reservations about the "PO=break-ins" thing. It's probably an investigative role, but it need not be the PO. I'm working with the assumption that it is, for now, but ultimately the only way to tell one way or another is for us to hear the claim.
Just wanted to mention that.

Also, hey, RO! You out there? Cause I think it's time you said something.

Also, I'm still moving, so I probably won't be on for another 24 hours or so. Sorry 'bout that.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

That's incorrect, Karesh. The break-in can't be the roleblock, since it was used on SMB night 3, and he still murdered Viridis. This leads me to assume that it is the PO after all, who investigated both Aldurin and Karesh. That makes up almost 50% of town that would be investigated or known by the PO. At this point, I feel the PO might as well come out and claim and point out whether people are mafia or not. Sure, it'd make the person a prime target for mafia, but if not now, then when?

Oh, that's true.
Still, an investigative role that only acts once in a while, has his actions declared in the night flavor and can fail? That seems hilariously underpowered.

[Revising Ocelot]

Yes I'm here again, couldn't post at all in the last Day. Will type up something tomorrow, I've got no time today (staying overnight at mum's care home, stealing laptop atm).

[Aldurin]

My worry is that the break-in guy isn't really a PO. If he was he probably should have claimed in order to confirm people, since at the very least it rules out targets to lynch. Hopefully the break-ins aren't some kind of scum power.

[Ravashak]

Oh, that's true.
Still, an investigative role that only acts once in a while, has his actions declared in the night flavor and can fail? That seems hilariously underpowered.The break-in only didn't happen night 2, night 1 it was at Aldurin, night 3 SMB, night 4 Karesh. So it seems that it can happen every night. Where did you get the idea that it can fail, though?
My worry is that the break-in guy isn't really a PO. If he was he probably should have claimed in order to confirm people, since at the very least it rules out targets to lynch. Hopefully the break-ins aren't some kind of scum power.I'd be open to suggestions as to what it can be if it isn't the PO, since roleblocker's been ruled out already through what we now learned was night 3's actions.

[greed]

Alright seeing as they're is likely only one mafiate left and if I leave it much later I'll probably accomplish nothing here's my role claim.

I am greed, Detective, woman with a ear flapped traveling hat, self aligned. I have PO powers but am self aligned. My condition is to survive until all kill roles are gone. It's not exclusive either (if anyone else is alive they co win as long as they don't have kill powers).

Night 1 and 4, Aldurin and Karesh are probably not scum. There is a possibility they are cult but I believe based on the unclear text I got that they are self aligned masons. So self aligned but everyone seems to be. They are the green text faction BTW.

Night 3 Smarty was the SK. That was a waste.

Night 2 however was the interesting one. I did conduct an investigation that night. The reason it didn't show up? The subject lives in a treehouse because he is a child. No windows to break so no evidence of a break in. Now oddly he came up as a town aligned innocent child. But given that everyone seems to self aligned this time around I believe there is a good chance he is a mafiate with a reverse miller power and is scum like all the other children.

So yeah for that reason

Vote: Geminex

[greed]

In case it's unclear my night 2 investigation was Geminex. I worded that badly I now realise.

[Revising Ocelot]

Innocent child? All of the kids so far have been deranged killers. Definitely sounds like a Godfather.

##Vote: Geminex, based off earlier suspicions and this. This also tests the PO claim anyway (I think he's being truthful, though), so if it's wrong we can lynch greed the next day.

[Ravashak]

greed, did you only get the faction color, or also things like what hat they're wearing? The lack of hat on the "innocent child" is also strange, in my opinion.
Before I'm going to vote for anyone, I'd like a response from Karesh, Aldurin and Geminex on what greed claimed.

And PLEASE do not vote yet, in the worst case scenario, we actually have 3 mafiates alive, which means that we only need one non-mafiate vote on someone, and the mafia'd be able to get someone lynched, thus giving them the win.

[greed]

How could we have 3 mafiates? That would mean them being 6 out of twenty which would be kind of weird. But yeah anyway

Unvote: Geminex

Anyway Karesh wears a bowler, and Aldurin wears a bicorn. Smarty wore the fruit hat (that was in his death text though so you all know that), and yeah Gem's text mentioned nothing about a hat. He was just "a completely innocent child".

Also said text said I ate some of his snacks and riffled through his comic book collection.

[Ravashak]

Where's the third child that got killed?
Thought we only had Fenris and Hawk taken down during the nights.

[greed]

Goddamnit


Oh well. Hope there's still a BG around.

[Revising Ocelot]

Actually, him being hatless reinforces his status as Godfather. I'm hatless and Miller, remember. He's basically the same thing, Mafia version.

[Ravashak]

Talking about you, RO, got an explanation for missing your own lynch? xP

[Revising Ocelot]

Nope. But I wasn't allowed to post at all yesterday, so it's certainly something to do with that. Someone mentioned a possible Jailer role? That's all I can think of, though I've never seen one before.

[Aldurin]

Night 1 and 4, Aldurin and Karesh are probably not scum. There is a possibility they are cult but I believe based on the unclear text I got that they are self aligned masons. So self aligned but everyone seems to be. They are the green text faction BTW.

THANK YOU, this is what we need. I will confirm that greed's claims for me and Karesh are true, and might as well declare that rpgdemon is our third mason. And now we should have ruled out the majority of possibilities.

Vote: Geminex

This will help test the rest of greed's claim. Though I don't get why he unvoted because of possible weird mafia math.

[Ravashak]

I want rpgdemon to first confirm this mason group. If that happens, I'll join in and vote as well. What I don't absolutely want to avoid is a lynch before said confirmation, though.

[greed]

THANK YOU, this is what we need. I will confirm that greed's claims for me and Karesh are true, and might as well declare that rpgdemon is our third mason. And now we should have ruled out the majority of possibilities.

Vote: Geminex

This will help test the rest of greed's claim. Though I don't get why he unvoted because of possible weird mafia math.

To prevent a sudden rush I guess. Besides even if we know who we are gonna vote some more time discussing stuff before another possible nightkill probably won't hurt. We got a day or two til night falls may as well give other people some time to discuss stuff. For all we know someone could have something useful to contribute.

[Geminex]

I'm not scum. Yes, I am a kid. I'm the child in the mortarboard, town-aligned. I never played with the other kids, 'cause I'm the teacher's pet. At the time, I didn't realize the significance of that.

Yes, I'm yet another town-aligned player. Vanilla, I thought, but the fact that you didn't get any info on my hat as well seems weird. I never claimed my flavor, because I was afraid exactly this would happen. Up until day 3, I had no idea that the mafiates were kids. And when we did make that particular realization, I thought that the investigator was dead. If bookie had told us that there'd been an investigation on night 3, I would have claimed on day 4 and set things straight. As it is, I thought the investigator was dead, and didn't see any point in distracting people.

I honestly have no idea why you didn't get my hat info as well. Could be that Bookie just forgot again? Or some hidden part of my role?

But to respond to the actual accusations. Yes, I'm a kid. But that doesn't mean I go around murdering people.

To the people who think I'm godfather, that doesn't make sense.The point of a godfather is that he comes up innocent. That effect is dashed if he has a flavor that clearly makes him a mafiate. I mean, I guess I could be a "mafia that comes up as town-aligned but is clearly scum", but that kinda defeats the purpose of the role, doesn't it? If I was scum, why would bookie bother to let me come up innocent in the first place? It doesn't make sense.

Let's discuss this. Go over my behavior. But don't hinge your vote on flavor alone, especially when the very same investigation that you're relying on also declares me innocent. I mean, have I seemed scummy, behaviorally? I've always taken the time to contribute to the discussion, when I could. I was hesitant when I realized that I was one of the few town roles, but I still tried to help. And hell, I clarified quite a bit of stuff. I counselled against an overly hasty lynch on RO yesterday (I'm the one who mentioned the jailer thing), I never struck back at Sifright, even when I had plenty of opportunity to do so. I've been careful, I've been productive, or tried to be. Don't ignore all that on the basis of flavor.

Look at it this way. We have 4 pretty-much-confirmed innocents, one confirmed-but-apparently-not-innocent (myself) and 2 unconfirmed. Between 1 and 3 mafiates, probably 2. If we take care, we can win this.

[rpgdemon]

I want rpgdemon to first confirm this mason group. If that happens, I'll join in and vote as well. What I don't absolutely want to avoid is a lynch before said confirmation, though.

I can in fact confirm this. Though, "Mason" wasn't used explicitly as our title, which lead to my confusion about what they were. We are allowed to talk amongst ourselves, were given one extra vote, and have nothing further.

I will now:

##Vote: Geminex, and the vote count is now one under the max. No one vote, unless you want an early day end.

[Ravashak]

...

Unofficial vote count
Geminex: 4
Karesh
Revolving Ocelot
Aldurin
rpgdemon

And we have a lynch >_>
Day's over

[Mr.Bookworm]

Geminex, the Child wearing a Mortarboard, Tagalong, playmate-aligned is swinging in the breeze.

Day 4 over, Night 4 begin. Day 5 starts as soon as the actions get in.

[Mr.Bookworm]

As the sun rises, for the first time in days, no corpses litter the streets. The most notable action during the night, for once, was littering, public urination, and a single break-in.

Day 5 Start. 6 players left, 4 to lynch.

[greed]

Okay the investigation results are in, we got something interesting here.

Ravashak is a mason. Mason aligned.

So guess the gentlemen are what? A cult? A second self aligned masonry? Can't be a cult actually they are half the town now and still haven't won. So two masonries? Whut.

[Aldurin]

Okay the investigation results are in, we got something interesting here.

Ravashak is a mason. Mason aligned.

So guess the gentlemen are what? A cult? A second self aligned masonry? Can't be a cult actually they are half the town now and still haven't won. So two masonries? Whut.

The fuck? I can definitely confirm that we're not a cult, but multiple masonries isn't as confusing in a game where the supposed town is all self-aligned.

But what about Revolving Ocelot? We've never got any clear explanations from him.

FOS: Revolving Ocelot

[greed]

The lack of night activity and the fact that we had a godfather with some degree of scan avoidance does buff up his miller story. I'm willing to believe that one of the players that has since died was a gaoler and saved him. I wonder if I can investigate dead people might check to see if one of them was a gaoler tonight.

[rpgdemon]

Well, process of elimination makes me think RO.

We have the three people who have been confirmed by Greed as being not-scum: Karesh, Aldurin, and Ravashak.

We have Greed, who has been confirmed as at least having an investigative role, by accurately giving roles of Karesh and Aldurin, who I can verify as well.

We have me, who has been confirmed by Karesh and Aldurin.

And no one has verified RO at all. He vanished for that day, and still hasn't really posted/given any sort of explanation for what he's been doing, or anything.

The alternate thing might be, if RO is telling the truth, he's town and we're all self-aligned. That might mean that for us to win, he has to lose, if the theory of needing only self-aligned players remaining to win is right.

I'm going to vote now, so that I don't have to miscount like I did last time, and kill the day. I mean, it worked out insofar as we hit scum, but I don't like the fact that I made the bad play.

##vote: Revolving_Ocelot

[Revising Ocelot]

So, the Night ended as soon as greed sent his investigation? Guess there aren't any killing roles left, because that was all of 2 hours. The previous night with Geminex, who was the Godfather, lasted full duration.
So now there's a win condition we've got to meet. I reckon the Masons would win if they were left on their own, and then there's the rest of the individuals who each have to be the sole survivor, presumably including myself.


Only person I can 'suspect' is Karesh for his weird early posts last Day, but given that he can't be a killer, that's no reason for voting him more than anyone else. I could vote rpgdemon for example because I have actually posted that it was impossible for me to post last Day, and I don't know the exact reason why (I had no flavour text other than "You have no idea where you are and cannot make any posts today.").
The Masons at least could swing the vote into whatever direction they fancy, which is a con for any non-Mason. So the concept of that in the situation we're in now is a 'Mafia' that can only lynch. So that's Ravashak, Aldurin, and rpgdemon... which leaves me as townie, greed as independent self-aligned, and Karesh as another independent self-aligned.



So unless one of the latter three votes for another, we've got a stalemate up in here. Maybe it'd be best to end the game on a stalemate so everybody remaining can be winners? http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a121/NuklearFenris/magnetsg.png

[Revising Ocelot]

That's assuming me, greed and Karesh would all vote for the same Mason, granted.

[Geminex]

It's a fair cop, guv.

[greed]

It is the optimum plan though assuming that the gentlemen win when they have the majority. If none of us have kill roles anymore we should probably split into gentlemen and non gentlemen blocks. Assuming they have lost their extra vote power due to it being a one off this would result in a stalemate.

With that said

Vote: Karesh

With the intention of forcing a stalemate.


I suggest you RO, and you Ravashak do the same. We don't want to not have voted or have a split vote and let the gentlemen run a lynch on one of us.

RO could be scum and not the miller but given the shortness of the night I doubt it, as it is the Gentlemen seem the more immediate threat.

[Revising Ocelot]

Oh wait, Karesh is a mason too. Durrrr. Completely skimmed over that in rpg's post.

##Vote: Karesh. Stalemating this up, yo.

[greed]

Now join us Ravashak, stop the gentlemen. Let the proletariat rise above their cultured bourgeois.

[Ravashak]

##Vote: Karesh

Sounds as good a plan as any. I can also completely confirm greed, he even got the colour right. I'm actually a mason (along with 2 others that are dead by now). This should explain why I wanted confirmation before the lynch in day 5 (we're at day 6 now, Bookworm).

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Much as I'd love a stalemate I can't shake the impression that the optimum plan for a last remaining scum player would be to stop killing in order to trick the town.

[greed]

Yeah here's the thing. Only RO can be scum. He's probably not but he might be. If we vote him out and he's not scum then you win and we other self aligned lose cause you have majority. If he is scum same deal. You have the majority and win.


This is the only winning move for me and Rav and probably RO too. He might be scum and we might still lose but deadlocking is all we can do.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Yeah here's the thing. Only RO can be scum. He's probably not but he might be. If we vote him out and he's not scum then you win and we other self aligned lose cause you have majority. If he is scum same deal. You have the majority and win.


This is the only winning move for me and Rav and probably RO too. He might be scum and we might still lose but deadlocking is all we can do.

We're a mason group and only a mason group. We don't congeal as one group. All we ever got was the ability to contact one another, and as I recall it Aldurin was given the extra power of casting a single secret vote. So, yeah. We've been helping one another because we're all confirmed to be on the same sort of side. But even we had no idea the extent of which the town was self aligned.
I don't really know what's going to happen when a town of self aligned people are all that's left, but I still feel like the best choice is RO at the moment.

[rpgdemon]

Yeah here's the thing. Only RO can be scum. He's probably not but he might be. If we vote him out and he's not scum then you win and we other self aligned lose cause you have majority. If he is scum same deal. You have the majority and win.


This is the only winning move for me and Rav and probably RO too. He might be scum and we might still lose but deadlocking is all we can do.

You don't win, either way, worst case scenario. No matter what, you lose if you deadlock.

Best case scenario, though, RO is keeping the unaligned "town" from winning, by being aligned, and taking him out causes you and us to win.

[rpgdemon]

Therefore, optimizing your play, the best move is vote RO. It's the only move that has the potential not to end the game in an unfavorable situation.

[greed]

No draw is better than loss. If you guys are the majority you win and we lose. We deadlock we draw We vote RO we lose anyway.

All we have on you guys not winning as the majority is your word. So yeah sorry sticking with the draw plan.

[Ravashak]

Besides, the incredibly quick night in my eyes proved that RO does not have a night role, meaning mafia's out, along with the SK and vig from earlier, meaning no night kills. This removes the idea that RO's a threat. Then there's the precision with which greed investigated me, as I mentioned before, meaning he's also no threat.

So I'm following my flavour text:
Now that you’re stuck with a bunch of a murderous lunatics, you might as well close ranks with the people that probably aren’t murderous lunatics, right?

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Besides, the incredibly quick night in my eyes proved that RO does not have a night role, meaning mafia's out, along with the SK and vig from earlier, meaning no night kills. This removes the idea that RO's a threat. Then there's the precision with which greed investigated me, as I mentioned before, meaning he's also no threat.


That bothers me because it'd be easy enough for someone to either preemptively decide not to act and inform Bookie of that, or if RO had just happened to be around he could have acted quickly anyway.

The "Night was quick" thing is flimsy logic at best.

[Mr.Bookworm]

I was merely trying to speed along the game, given how few the players now are.

[Revising Ocelot]

*twiddle thumbs*

[Mr.Bookworm]

3 votes for Karesh, 1 vote for RO. 4 to lynch.

[Fenris]

I was merely trying to speed along the game, given how few the players now are.

How's that working out for you?

[Mr.Bookworm]

How's that working out for you?

*facepalm*

You know what? Karesh dies. He was dying anyway, either by clock running out or by someone getting that final vote in.

KARESH IS DEAD, you murderers murdered him.

Night 5 start, Day 6 starts as soon as all roles get in.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Or, you know, as the time limit ran out the other two masons in my group and I might have tied it up on somebody else.
But hey, whatever.

[Sifright]

*facepalm*

You know what? Karesh dies. He was dying anyway, either by clock running out or by someone getting that final vote in.

KARESH IS DEAD, you murderers murdered him.

Night 5 start, Day 6 starts as soon as all roles get in.

Oh, bookie.

[rpgdemon]

*facepalm*

You know what? Karesh dies. He was dying anyway, either by clock running out or by someone getting that final vote in.

KARESH IS DEAD, you murderers murdered him.

Night 5 start, Day 6 starts as soon as all roles get in.

What the fuck that's dumb

[Mr.Bookworm]

Or, you know, as the time limit ran out the other two masons in my group and I might have tied it up on somebody else.
But hey, whatever.

SHOULD HAVE DONE IT QUICKER, FUCKNUTS.

Oh, bookie.

OH, SIFRIGHT.

What the fuck that's dumb

YOUR FACE.

[Mr.Bookworm]

But no really, after 24 hours of complete inactivity, I was kind of assuming that people weren't actually paying attention anymore, which was quite frustrating given that this is almost over.

Seems I was mistaken.

Karesh I declare you undead, but not in the stupid Romero sense, in the sense of you are now alive again.

Day is going to be over, in say, 24 hours.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Stick to your guns Bookie. Long days are shit days. Lynch all these dudes for lacking genitals. Massive ones.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Stick to your guns Bookie. Long days are shit days. Lynch all these dudes for lacking genitals. Massive ones.

DICKS

GET THE FUCK BACK IN THE BOX

.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Stick to your guns Bookie. Long days are shit days. Lynch all these dudes for lacking genitals. Massive ones.

Fool who done got stabbed to death says what?

[Mr.Bookworm]

Fool who done got stabbed to death says what?

Stick to your guns Bookie. Long days are shit days. Lynch all these dudes for lacking genitals. Massive ones.

.

[Revising Ocelot]

##Vote: Bookie

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

##Vote: Bookie

I can get behind this. If we're going to end on this "draw" idea I'd rather it end on the funny note of the tie being between us and the GM.

##Vote: Mr. Bookworm