The Dark Knight Rises

[Magus]

I got some mixed feelings on this one. Let's go over it:

1. Unlike the Dark Knight which seemed to focus on greater thematic elements or social commentary, this movie is pretty much just a Batman movie through-and-through. The trailers are basically lies--there's no real anti-capitalist or anti-socialist rhetoric in this movie, nothing really resembling a comment on Occupy Wall Street or the Recession or whatever. In fact the class warfare element is probably about the same or less prevalent than it even was in Batman Begins. All we really get here is some acknowledgement that there are some poor people in the city, and...that's about it. There's one or two other scenes that fit into this "theme", but it's so thin and basically absent that I think it was almost tacked on as an afterthought. It falls to the wayside pretty quickly. Sure, Bane makes a couple of speeches, sets up a kangaroo court, does his "breaking out of the Bastille" thing...but it basically has nothing to really do with an allegory. It's to torture Bruce. Bane says as much before even doing it, and the specter of the nuclear bomb basically puts the nail in the coffin of any real symbolism. I wish Bane HAD fulfilled the promise of the trailers in creating a real dystopia, but what actually happens is much more by-the-numbers and driven more by character-motivation. For instance, in my opinion, Bane breaking the prisoners out of jail is more about the fact that he was a prisoner, not really because of class warfare, whereas the commercials make it look like this is part of his "revolution". It's really just part of his plan to destroy Gotham and mentally torture Bruce.

2. Of course, failing to do another allegory might be for the best. Then we don't have to argue over it. Now, as a film about Batman, I think it excels. This movie is pretty deeply involved with the character. There is such an indepth exploration of his psyche that it's almost to the detriment of the film in its first half-hour (which mostly consists of exposition--it really picks up after Bane takes Batman down, when things really start to get rolling). I feel Nolan probably could have easily cut 15 minutes of this movie, mostly from that first segment. It's also probably the best live-action adaptation of Knightfall and No Man's Land we're going to get, for what that is worth. Sometimes it pays to just do a comic-book movie, and while I think it's not exactly what people were expecting with this movie given the second one, I think people who appreciated Batman Begins more than The Dark Knight will be pleased.

3. There are one or two major plot holes, leaps in logic, Deus Ex Machina. You will probably identify them pretty quickly.

4. On the other hand the second half of the movie was incredibly fun.

So. Eh. What do you think? I definitely don't think it's better than The Dark Knight but is it on par with Begins? Probably. With a little editing I could say it was better than Begins but at the moment I'd put them neck-and-neck.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

Bane was a force of nature in this movie. Very entertaining to watch on the screen too. You gotta admire a guy that can take an entire city hostage and pit it's citizens against each other. Sure, the means by which he achieves it might seem more comic booky but it's no worse than the microwave emitter from Begins.

The reason why this doesn't work as an allegory like The Dark Knight is the difference in the villain's motivation. The Joker wants to tear the system down to prove a point while Bane's mission is more personal.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

This movie was so bad it turned me mormon.

[The Sevenshot Kid]

That sounds like a winning endorsement.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Planning on seeing it sometime next week. Since the actual movie doesn't really have all that commentary on Occupy the trailers were hinting at did it seem like they added any relatively out of place scenes just so they could be put on the trailers?

[Magus]

This movie was so bad it turned me mormon.

But they still got your money! THE PLAN WORKED

Planning on seeing it sometime next week. Since the actual movie doesn't really have all that commentary on Occupy the trailers were hinting at did it seem like they added any relatively out of place scenes just so they could be put on the trailers?

No, I think it was more just taking them out of context combined with people's interpretation of what they were seeing, which then fed back into the ad-campaign.

For example (minor spoilers, if you have seen the trailers, I think you are safe) when Bane's men attack the stock exhange it is merely a plot device. It has nothing to do with a commentary on capitalism like you might think when it is shown in conjunction with the later scenes involving the looting of the houses of the rich, which is closer to being part of an allegory at that point than a mere plot device. But the trailers try and make it look like these scenes are connected to one another thematically.

[Intern Nin]

This movie was so bad it turned me mormon.

And now you can't drink or smoke or shoot yourself up full of... I don't know what kind of drugs you use. Heroin? Meth? Your own special New Zealand designer drug with trace amounts of kiwi liver and vegemite?

Point is, we all win.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

For example (minor spoilers, if you have seen the trailers, I think you are safe) when Bane's men attack the stock exhange it is merely a plot device. It has nothing to do with a commentary on capitalism like you might think when it is shown in conjunction with the later scenes involving the looting of the houses of the rich, which is closer to being part of an allegory at that point than a mere plot device. But the trailers try and make it look like these scenes are connected to one another thematically.

Works for me.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

But they still got your money! THE PLAN WORKED



No they didn't- you forget I'm a homeless vagrant who doesn't have that kind of cinema monies.
Somebody bought me a ticket- probably to listen to me bitch about it afterwards.

Also this movie was pretty in your face with political commentary- I think Magus wandered into a showing of Ice Age 4.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Something tells me they don't draw much distinction between your money and your friends money.

[Magus]

No they didn't- you forget I'm a homeless vagrant who doesn't have that kind of cinema monies.
Somebody bought me a ticket- probably to listen to me bitch about it afterwards.

Oh, man. That's like the perfect reason to buy you a ticket to a movie, too. :D

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Something tells me they don't draw much distinction between your money and your friends money.

But my money smells like friendship.



Oh, man. That's like the perfect reason to buy you a ticket to a movie, too. :D

This movie enraged me so much I got a noise complaint while doing the drunk stream.

[Nique]

Smarty, sometimes Batman is just a cigar.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Freud's theories have all been discredited. His quotes can be thrown out too.

[Gregness]

I liked it, but Bane's voice somehow didn't seem to fit him. Like, he's this 6.5ft tall ripped-ass brawler, and he sounds like Deckard Cain.

So, Mike Tyson Effect I guess.

I did appreciate the part where Talia told Bane to keep him alive so he'd feel the heat of the bomb, and as soon as she left he turned to him and said: "We both know I have to kill you now, right?"

[Fenris]

I actually disagree on the point about it not being as politically charged as the trailers made it sound, but I guess I didn't actually watch any of the trailers and went into it fairly unaware of the theme beyond "Bane is the villain," which doesn't mean a whole lot to me as I'm unfamiliar with Batman mythos and run-on sentences.

Phrases like "Now it's everybody's house," and such really painted the terrorists as communists to my unitiated eyes.

But overall, I felt like it was a decent movie. Not worth seeing twice in theaters but definitely worth seeing once. My family will probably get it on bluray when it comes out, but I can't see it becoming a part of a timeless collection or anything like that.

[Magus]

Uh, yeah, I mean, I think there was some allegory but it was so thin and poorly developed it was like there wasn't one. Like Bane's dystopia is like, '80s-action-flick vision of Soviet Russia or something. It's not very modern and felt fairly stereotypical, like just your everyday "evil dictator" thing as opposed to something contemporary. Like this movie felt very much like a Batman comic book movie as opposed to the Dark Knight where it was both a crime drama and morality play that also had Batman in it.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

It was poorly developed like Triumph of the Will was poorly developed- by portraying one side as cartoony villains because you want to show the other side as ace. That's mmore of an argument for the prosecution than the defence.

One good thing I forgot to mention- everyone complaining about the bullet reconstruction and the sonar in the second film, he trolled them even harder in this film. Nuklear reactors totally turn into nuclear bombs if you just flip some switches! He was probably paid off by the oil companies for that one.

[Magus]

Heh, well it was some kind of super-sciencey fusion bomb or something. I guess if you know nothing about fusion you're just supposed to assume it is somehow more unstable than a regular bomb, even though they said it was due to what, the uranium core degrading or something? I don't see how that would make it blow up, so obviously the science makes no sense. And comparing it to Triumph of the Will is giving it too much credit, it was more like just your stereotypical anti-Russian plot, like Red Dawn or something. It failed to do anything more than an '80s action movie would in its portrayal of the bad guys. It just wasn't creative. They could have gone all the way with Bane's dystopia: regular people joining Bane's army, children denouncing their parents, secret police doing raids on houses. Instead we get a couple scenes of a kangaroo court, one scene with some squatters in a mansion, and...that's it.

I'm more concerned with the plot holes and other problems: John Blake: "I know you lost your parents because I saw your eyes (for five minutes 8 years ago); therefore you are Batman." Or Batman just straight up shooting that driver of that truck at the end, unless he was just somehow knocked unconscious or whatever. Or even the fact that he basically directly caused Talia's neck to break by wrecking the truck. Then you have the Talia "twist" which unless you are interested in Batman lore would come off as dumb. Then you have the Deus Ex Machina in Catwoman just shooting Bane when he's about to kill Batman right at the end there. The dumb statue of Batman. And finally, that whole "YOU SHOULD GO BY YOUR LEGAL NAME. ROBIN IS A NICE NAME" which was such a dumb corny metajoke which apparently was just to beat the audience over the head with the fact that yes, Blake was much like a Robin-figure in the movie, and now he is going to be Batman. As if seeing him in the Batcave wouldn't get that across to us. Like TDK had a lot of plot holes, deus ex machina, or dropped plot tangents, but this one took it to a whole new level.

EDIT: Although if Triumph of the Will is just like that then I guess? I saw it more as like an American 1950's level of propaganda film, the Red Scare, etc. You could maybe argue it was at least topical during the Soviet era if just as jingoistic but now it just feels uncreative, like they didn't want to really spend much time on that part of the movie so they were just like "Okay, Bane is just a super bad guy, Batman is super good." It's much more like a stereotypical comic book story in that sense.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Actually the biggest problem was them straight up lying about the characters. They were asked if Marion was playing Talia which they denied. They were asked if JGL was playing Robin- they said he's not and Robin wouldn't even show up. Like if your plot is so shitty you need to lie to reporters to keep some kind of "suspense" you can just fuck off.

[Magus]

Yep, they did indeed. Nolan especially. It reminds me of how Ridley Scott kept insisting Prometheus had nothing to do with Alien, and then everybody goes and sees it and it's like almost a direct prequel to Alien.

Of course, half of the problem was that little kid who played young Talia running her face. But their response should have just been to not say anything.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Less charitable people would say its major problems are its terrible pacing, atrocious script that just meanders all around the place over and over again picking up threads- dropping them-repeatng them, some uneven performances and a strange wavering of tone constantly leaving a movie with a great climax but a terrible first 2 hours but good thing they are not here.

[Magus]

Well I for one am glad that our membership does not include such uncharitable souls.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Here here.

[Azisien]

It was pretty shitty, except for a decent end. Kind of the opposite of what you expect out of the third movie in a trilogy! Way to mix it up, Nolan.

I totally called that Blake shit like a year ago.

[Magus]

It was pretty shitty, except for a decent end. Kind of the opposite of what you expect out of the third movie in a trilogy! Way to mix it up, Nolan.

I totally called that Blake shit like a year ago.

Yeah if the internet had avoided all the fake spoilers I would have taken it more seriously when it apparently came up with some of the real plot twists.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Pretty much everyone alive called every plot twist until they started just being flatout "no that doesn't happen in the movie, you're stupid"

[POS Industries]

Welp, that was the angriest a movie's made me in a long time.

On the bright side, I can rest assured that there can't possibly be anything redeemable about Man of Steel if this is the direction DC's happy with letting Nolan take their characters.

[Kim]

Now can jerks stop telling me I have to watch movies before deciding I don't want to watch them because they are shitty now that Nolan has made a Batman movie that is really, really shitty?

[Betty Elms]

Just because it's bad capitalist propaganda doesn't mean it isn't capitalist propaganda.

Hathaway and Hardy were good. The action sequences were more effective. Absolutely every other aspect of the film was the trilogy at its worst.

[Magus]

Yeah, but why does everyone care so much that the Batman movies specifically are capitalist propaganda? They seem to be everybody's go-to flicks on the topic of mainstream Hollywood's penchant for fellating the U.S. Even I mentioned it, probably due to an earlier topic on the same subject. You'd be hard-pressed to find one of these Hollywood blockbusters that isn't inherently capitalistic/jingoistic, though, especially superhero movies (where there's usually some level of "defending the American way", be it Iron Man shooting terrorists or Superman punching General HitlerZod). Is it because of people fellating The Dark Knight for the past 4 years for supposedly being more artistic/cerebral than the usual action-flick?

[Krylo]

Now can jerks stop telling me I have to watch movies before deciding I don't want to watch them because they are shitty now that Nolan has made a Batman movie that is really, really shitty?

No.

Now go watch this shitty movie.

[Nique]

Lego Batman 2: A better Batman story than TDKR.

[Magus]

Lego Batman 2: A better Batman story than TDKR.

Oh, yeah, I heard they got Clancy Brown to come back and reprise Lex Luthor for that game.

[Bells]

I wanna share this cause i couldn't wait i only get to see the movie tomorrow and i spoiled myself, but i spoiled myself in a funny way so hooray!

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[BloodyMage]

I dunno what Hathaway was doing but that wasn't Catwoman.

[POS Industries]

I dunno what Hathaway was doing but that wasn't Catwoman.
I thought she was all right. It was still closer to the source material than most of the other characters in these movies.

[BloodyMage]

She wasn't really treated like a villain (which she technically was at the start) or an anti-hero (which she technically was by the end). She was like a very disobedient Bat-girl. She didn't really do anything by herself. Just set up the plot, waited for Batman, drove a motorcycle. She had a couple nice moments but the character felt like it was missing something to make her more like catwoman. That's no fault of Hathaway's depiction though, more so Nolan's creative decisions regarding the character as a whole.

[POS Industries]

Oh, on that, I agree. I feel that, for the most part, the actors did a fine job capturing the personalities of their characters, but they were given a script that in no way understood the motivations of any character involved. This is something that has happened throughout these movies, and seems to be just about what you'd expect to happen when you have the guy who wrote Kickboxer 2: The Road Back, Dollman vs Demonic Toys, The Puppet Masters, Puppet Master vs Demonic Toys, Jumper, and The Unborn to write your Batman trilogy.

[BloodyMage]

He also writes the story for the Black Ops games which I think says more than enough.

[POS Industries]

Yeah, but he got that gig for being the guy that wrote the Batman movies.

Also, I assume he keeps getting work because he's willing to be paid in gum.

[Nikose Tyris]

This entire movie was just one big setup for Nolan to make the most underhanded "Somedays you just can't get rid of a bomb" joke ever.

[Bells]

i don't know what kind of crack you people are on, but i just watched it and i loved it.

It's not so much a self-contained trilogy as it is a Self-Contained Universe. Nolan created his own Batman Mythology and i had fun with it from beginning to end...

And this is the first Batman movie where they kinda made me give a shit about Batman, which is a really big deal for me, even thought not that much... Bane was awesome. Way above anything i was expecting, The twists were good for me, the passing of the torch felt pitch perfect for the narrative they were telling.

And "Do you feel in charge?" is one of the most Crowning moments of awesome I've seen in the last few years.

[phil_]

All the bad guys were presented as sniveling cowards with no redeeming qualities, out of control of their own designs which ended up overwhelming them, and they all end up dead by the end, killed by either Bane or Ichabod.

Overall, I liked it.

[Loyal]

Bane's voice was silly. Even disregarding that Bane is typically Hispanic (or thereabouts) the voice just didn't work, especially with the mask muffling it. I had to stop myself from bursting into giggles when he said "I wondered what would break first; Your spirit, or YER BODY!"

Regarding the scene about Blake being all "Oh your hands are plenty filthy, Gordon!" and being all disgusted: Is it just me or was this issue just not addressed or acknowledged to happen at all through the entire rest of the movie?

Other than that I liked it.

On a side note, why, in the Superman trailer, did Supes have two contrails coming out behind him when he flew up?

[POS Industries]

On a side note, why, in the Superman trailer, did Supes have two contrails coming out behind him when he flew up?
Apparently his feet are jet engines.

[Bells]

Regarding the scene about Blake being all "Oh your hands are plenty filthy, Gordon!" and being all disgusted: Is it just me or was this issue just not addressed or acknowledged to happen at all through the entire rest of the movie?


Everything that happens to Blake beyond that point is painting the world that shows Blake why Gordon think the way he thinks now. Up to that point he was overly idealistic, after that he gets much more grounded and realistic as he goes walking towards the "Batman ideals"... it's acknowledge via his arc in the story, but they don't rub it in your face.

[Aerozord]

Apparently his feet are jet engines.

really? I always assumed his propulsion was powered by his digestive tract

[POS Industries]

really? I always assumed his propulsion was powered by his digestive tract
Yes, but this is Nolan Superman and we have to make this shit REALISTIC. Otherwise nobody's going to be able to believe this story about Space Alien Jesus from Kansas who gets a wide array of superpowers from sunlight. Anything other than jet engine feet would be silly.

[BloodyMage]

"

Regarding the scene about Blake being all "Oh your hands are plenty filthy, Gordon!" and being all disgusted: Is it just me or was this issue just not addressed or acknowledged to happen at all through the entire rest of the movie?

To build on what Bells said, remember the bit where Blake is trying to free the police men that are trapped underground and the military surround him and pull out guns on him. The bit where he puts up his hands and closes his eyes that you see in the trailer? Yeah, that's a visual representation of what Gordon had said to Blake before Blake got all self-righteous.

It's one of the few points where the film doesn't just use a speech to convey what's happening.

[Bells]

TgGCT6Ag4kk

Someone has talent

[Magus]

TgGCT6Ag4kk

Someone has talent

Sheesh that's combining together the Nolanverse, the sequel to the Dark Knight that might have happened if Ledger hadn't died, and Mark Hammil's take of the Joker from the Diniverse...basically everything good without any of the bad.

[Bells]

the best part is that it's not even Hammil's voice is just some really talented guy doing an impression. Really outstanding stuff..

[Bells]

Just a tossed idea cause the movie left itself just open enough for me to go there.

Oh, and Of course.... SPOILERS BELOW!!!!!!!!!!!

The end of TDKR is open enough... Batman is now a Symbol, Robin could become the next Batman, or he could simply follow in his shoes and creates his own Identity (Nightwing for example). This franchise is over of course, i don't think it's coming back... i think DC wants to push the Multiverse thing and try a Justice League movie, so they need to rework Batman for that...

But here is a funny thought that came to me when i placed the end of the movie next to the scene in the beginning with Bruce with a Cane... in a way that i think could even allow for a multiverse. So hear me out...

let Robin become Nightwing and work Gotham. At some point, it becomes too much for him (a new villain takes it to the next level) and at that point we're introduced to Terry Mcginnis and his story.

you can put 10-15 after the Dark Knight trilogy and that would work just fine.

At that point you have Terry's story and Nightwing not being able to handle this new kid who wants to be Batman for his own cause and reason... at that point, Bruce comes back in order to prevent the Batman Legacy to become tainted by a Hotheaded kid with a bloody vengeance in mind.

The catch is that Old Bruce from Batman Beyond should be Played by Kevin Conroy on screen.

Just let Joseph Gordon Levitt be Nightwing, dude was great as Robin Blake. Bring in Conroy as the perfect Batman role the man deserves and CAN play on a big screen and give Batman a new story that otherwise might never see the Theater release it could deserve.

I can't say for sure it would be great or even good... but i would sure as hell be Hyped if i heard something like this was in the works.

Hell, this might be pushing it but... if you wanna go full blown all out here, just Bring Hammil as the Old Joker. He can do it...

[POS Industries]

I have a better idea: Let's make Batman movies entirely unrelated to Nolan's films from here on out.

[Bells]

Oh it's certainly going to take a few years for them to reboot Batman... SPECIALLY if this new Superman movie kicks in right.

But on that note... the new Superman movie is also a "Nolan"... so if you like DC Heroes, you're stuck with the guy for a few more years. SPECIALLY if this Superman Reboot is made to allow a Multiverse.

But since Batman is a decent Milking cow right now and they can't reboot the franchise right now... they just might try to pull a spin off or something else from within this world.... Batman Beyond just seems like a solid place to put your money in THAT case.

EDIT: hell, as far as Nightwing goes, there is even some Fanart going around already

http://media.comicbookmovie.com/images/users/uploads/45811/Picture%209.png

[Magus]

I'm pretty sure they are already touting the next one as a reboot, although on the other hand Hollywood does like "safe" things and a reboot is something of a risk. But so is going forward with the same world/plot with new actors for all the roles or whatever. Like Blake as Batman or even just Nightwing is a 50/50 thing on whether or not people accept that.

A reboot I think would by necessity have to be somewhat lighter in tone. Not that the plots shouldn't have a certain momentousness to them (although maybe not as grim/ponderous as the Nolanverse movies), but they're going to have to move into a realm where the more fantastical elements are fair game or something like 90% of his Rogues Gallery is rejected. They'll have to allow in the supernatural or super-science elements or villains like Clayface, Mr. Freeze, Man-Bat, etc. won't work. Even characters like Poison Ivy or whatever are difficult to do. And the remaining characters seem similar to the others (the Riddler is like the side of the Joker where he was creating puzzles and leaving clues, Black Mask is like his sadistic side, the Penguin is basically just another mobster, etc.)

A lighter tone might be fun to do, too. It can be difficult to put both grim seriousness and comic relief in the same movie, but it's doable and it would be neat to see something more along the lines of The Animated Series. Like there is a balance somewhere between the Nolanverse and something like Brave and the Bold where they can do a "lighter" Batman movie while still making it seem like the events of the movie are important.

[Bells]

I think it will be fine as long as they fix the visual of the Batman and let leak a bit of fantasy into the world...

Like, instead of using super serious military armor, let Batman create a Kevlar-like cloth that is super resistant and cheap to make. So that he won't allow the large populace have it as to prevent bad guys from having it.

And let us stop the age of the Black eye paint. Just cover his eyes. Like in the Cartoon mask. Done right it will look menacing and awesome. Also, right now, Batman can be defeated with a well timed Flash of light... also would allow him to have his "eye gadgets" like in the Arkham games.

And learn to use the cape! The Nolan movies the cape gets less and less care, in this last one it's just there cause "its part of the costume"... batman is a detective ninja, the cape is to cover his arms and confuse enemies while cloaking in the shadows. Allow him to do so!

If they do at least that in a reboot, i'll be ok with it.

[Magus]

Yeah, one thing I liked about this movie is there was much more of the gadgetry. You have the robot knee-brace that lets him kick through walls, the EMP device, the Batcopter which was pretty awesome...with a new movie you could do all kinds of stuff just with the gadgets. Like his cape should be resistant to acid, for instance, like in the cartoon. And like you said he should have eye coverings. I know the main thing with these movies is they wanted to focus more on the characters and their motivations but there's no reason you can't also have a bunch of cool gadgetry.

[Bells]

one thing i could never 100% get past in these batman movies is that a speck of dust could at any moment hit Batman in the eye (or just the wind during the Batpod sequences) and that would be enough... hell, even pepper spray could take him down.

As if there was a cover, he could do things like have perfect night vision that is par for the character and just much more practical...

[BloodyMage]

I think they'd probably do well to actually use Joseph Gordon-Levitt as Batman, going into a Justice League film. For once, Blake is a lot more friendly and seemingly willing to co-operate with others than I could imagine Nolan's Bruce Wayne being. They'd also be pretty foolish to let the guy slip away given that he's very popular at the minute and he's got a youthful aspect.

Oh, him becoming Nightwing, While it seems the film was ambiguous about him becoming Batman or Robin, it would seem more more of a leap for him to become Nightwing. I'm pretty sure at one point the film Bruce Wayne says to Alfred or Fox or someone about the point of Batman as a symbol was that he could be anyone. That felt like a nod towards someone else taking up the same mantle at the end. Bit with the bats in the cave felt like a nod towards Bruce Wayne's own origin (in this universe) too.

That said, that fan made Nightwing above looks pretty rad.

[Bells]

The problem is that the Nolan universe just doesn't accept Mystical super heroes... and fans wouldn't accept another Batman that isn't Bruce Wayne in a justice league movie...

[BloodyMage]

They're already doing a realistic approach to Superman, and I'd imagine they'd do something similar if they were to reboot Green Lantern and include that character in the film too if they went with the ring just being alien tech. Wonder Woman could be included too because it would make sense that different aliens from different planets would evolve differently. Green Arrow is within the realms of possibility. Flash might be difficult since he is actually a superhuman.

I mean it depends on how far we're gonna debate realism in a film where a man is trained by ninjas, dresses like a bat, fights other ninjas, a chemist, a disfigured lawyer, a psychopath dressed as a clown, a ninja's daughter born in a prison and her masked terrorist lover. If those things exist it wouldn't be impossible for aliens to exist.

But yeah, fans definitely wouldn't like the Bruce Wayne switch out. Although they might like the continuity tie in.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

I always like how Nolan's films are supposedly "realistic" and wouldn't accept magical heroes.
There was more magical shit going on in TDK than in the Lord of the Fucking Rings (though that possesses a supringisly low level of magicons)

[Magus]

Well the Joker seems to bend space-time to get everywhere he has to get in the time allotted and he has a preternatural sense of timing and presumably the ability to read the future. But that's just a plot hole.

Maybe the Nolanverse accepts any kind of super-science explanation because there are some wacky things like the bat sonar signal in Begins that attracts the bats (which are powerful enough to break through glass) and the bat sonar thing in TDK that allows him to create realistic 3D images of entire cities.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Superman getting fantastic powers by being to able to harness and process the magnificent power of the suns radiation makes more sense than we can turn a nuclear reactor into a nuclear bomb by flicking the explodoswitch.
He is superstrong and fast because he has lots of energy, he can reemit the adsorbed sun radiation as eye beams and to fly he just shits sunlight- gravity is the weakest force afterall- what is it compared to the tremendous electromagnetic energy that is the sun.

[Magus]

I'm actually not even sure if Christopher Nolan even set this supposed "realism" rule for the Nolanverse or if this is just what has been observed by fans on the outside of the inner-workings of these movies. I think he mostly cared about having villains with human personality--there's nothing inherently realistic about Two-Face's burned-off skull or many of the gadgets in the movies or Scarecrow's toxin or whatever. I think most people get hung up on the Joker's wearing face paint instead of looking that way, but that's an idea from the comics themselves (for example in The Dark Knight Returns he had the pale skin and the green hair but applied the lipstick himself [because Miller is a homophobe but anyway]) and maybe he just thought that would have more of an impact as an interesting human foible of the Joker than something exacted on him by an outside force (i.e. an acid vat).

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Yep Nolan sure has realistic characters all right- I know I personally sit around all day explaining everything that has just happened to me and what I am thinking and what I am about to do so anybody watching me can follow along with minimal ease.

[Magus]

Yep Nolan sure has realistic characters all right- I know I personally sit around all day explaining everything that has just happened to me and what I am thinking and what I am about to do so anybody watching me can follow along with minimal ease.

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