Explosions at Boston Marathon

[Loyal]

http://i.imgur.com/6LacfLM.jpg

Bear in mind this is breaking news still in development, but holy fuck. (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2013/04/boston-marathon-explosions-live/64246/)

Multiple outlets and law enforcement officials are reporting what a horrific looking scene makes clear: The headquarters at the Boston Marathon have been locked down after two explosions were reported near the downtown finish line mid-Monday afternoon, near the Boston Library. Boston police confirmed that there were two explosions — and doctors were told to expect casualties — but no one was saying who or what might be responsible. "There were two booms heard from near the finish line inside the Fairmont Copley Plaza Hotel," reports the AP. Here are a couple of many images flowing in from social media current scene there:

The article contains some very graphic images. Blood and the like.

The Boston marathon is run each year on Patriot's Day. The city basically gets shut down for it and a LOT of people participate. Schools and workplaces are closed for the day so people can watch this thing go... and then this happens.

Who the fuck bombs a marathon and why?

[Tev]

To save on the thread surgery later, I'll just move my stuff up here.

This just came across my news thing a little bit ago (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/15/boston-marathon-explosion_n_3086665.html).

The headquarters of the Boston Marathon is on lockdown following two explosions near the finish line, Reuters reports.

The blasts occurred just before 3:00 p.m., according to MyFoxBoston.

Seems two explosions erupted from the finish line around 3:00pm their time. Stragglers in the race have been diverted and paramedics are still on clean-up. It looks pretty bloody from the pictures.

EDIT: This doesn't bode well:

Michael Ditto @janus303

Oh jeez, AP reporter on TV says Newtown families were in the VIP section right by the explosion. No injury reports, she's locked down w/ one
7:29 PM - 15 Apr 13
The 26th Mile of the Marathon was to be dedicated to the children of the Newtown shooting.

[Flarecobra]

I'm hearing reports of a possable third device found, and more evacuations... and possable deaths as well.

EDIT: From what I'm hearing on the radio... 2 dead, 22 injured. And police did find a third bomb, and removed it in a controlled detonation.

[Bells]

its not about the Marathon, is about a public day related to goverment where you can know for fact where a lot of people will be at any certain given time of the day. In harsh words... easy pickens for a domestic attack.

Now, i just try to force myself to see the least horrific possibility, like an accident or maybe a gas line rupture. Nothing with malice, nothing with intent and planning... as far as i know (and would like to hope) this is very much a possibility. Call it 1% but its there.... until it isn't anymore

However, right now is the time to firmly shove your foot to the ground and look around before taking a step... cause people are going to freak out at any other outcome. ANY thing beyond a stupid accident is going to cause major uphoar...

Seriously, i'm counting the days right now untill they relate this somehow to the Tea Revolution, or the boston tea party or whatever the fuck they can... just you wait.

It is hard to even imagine what the hell is going on on people´s mind behind stuff like this right now....... i can only send my best throughts to the people injuried and hope the first panic wave passes so we can see what this truly is.

[Tev]

I'm waiting for the conspiracy theorists to work out that this is some NRA plot to eliminate the Newtown families because they continue to be vocal proponents of gun control as well as scare the average American citizen into a terrorism induced gun buying frenzy.

It's only a matter of time.

[Bells]

from what im reading, the explosions took place in that "spot" where the winners would have already crossed the finnished line, which happens in very small groups of 3-5 people... but right in time for the "second wave' of runners to come by, which are usually larger groups of people together.

[Red Mage Black]

I'm... kind of shocked to hear about this. So much for traveling to Boston this week.

There was also something crazy I thought about that I don't know if I should state. I'm going to anyway. I met some crazy guy some time before I moved.(Still live in Mass, just a different town) Said he was going to do something big in Boston, but didn't state when. I never got his name, but he had some big crazy grudge against the government. He was convinced he was unemployable since he would... and I quote, "Tear shit apart." Like he could actually say something that would rip people's minds apart instead of just sounding like a cospiracist. While I'm not totally convinced it was him since he stated it was just minor anarchy he wanted to commit, it makes me paranoid to think he may have been involved. Guess I won't know until the perpetrator is found.

[phil_]

I think the first thing to not do is start speculating on who did this and why until people with the means to find out these things give us more information. Like, I know we're not doing any harm here pointing fingers at the NRA or the Tea Party, but I'm worried for the safety of some of my friends, not because any of them were at the marathon (I hope), but because "retaliatory" attacks against The Terrors could very likely happen as a result of people naming them as potential culprits. Plus it's just kind of a gross thing to do, anyway. Gross and human, like pooping, but still.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Who the fuck bombs a marathon and why?

The same reason a person decides to shoot up a theater at a packed showing, or a school in session. Unfortunately, outside of that person, no one ever really knows the reason why. It's something that only makes sense to them, and all the rest of can do is pick up the pieces and try to make amends.

In any case, I'm hoping the people in the hospital pull through and I'm hoping the justice system pulls through in getting us at least some answers.

[Flarecobra]

I'm hearing reports that 2 more bombs have been found.

[Mr.Bookworm]

http://proxy.storify.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimages.scribblelive.com%2F2013%2 F4%2F15%2F8db827d2-5c2c-4948-9208-132490581b49_400.jpg&resize=1&w=490

A map of the explosions so far.

It was also just confirmed that there was another blast at the library.

[Loyal]

JFK Library's a fair distance from Copley Square. They can't confirm the source of that particular explosion much less if it's related. I'm not sure what the purpose of a bomb there would be since there aren't likely to have been many people there today.

[Mr.Bookworm]

JFK Library's a fair distance from Copley Square. They can't confirm the source of that particular explosion much less if it's related. I'm not sure what the purpose of a bomb there would be since there aren't likely to have been many people there today.

They've said it was an "incendiary device", so I dunno. But, yeah, being hopeful.

Also, the cell towers in Boston have apparently been shut down and they're asking people to call 617-635-4500 if you need to find family.

[Sifright]

http://live.boston.com/Event/Live_blog_Explosion_in_Copley_Square/72926110

video link of first explosion.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Fire at the library is back to being unrelated.

The New York Post is reporting that there's a Saudi suspect in custody, but it's the fucking New York Post. Not that it's stopping people from running with it. EDIT: Boston PD just confirmed this was total bullshit. (http://livewire.talkingpointsmemo.com/entry/boston-police-no-arrests-have-been-made-in)

Boston Globe is saying the injured count is now upwards of 90.

[Magus]

It had to be more than 23 because it was at least two hospitals both reporting at least 2o wounded, so over 40 people.

[Kim]

Let's see what a Fox News employee has to say (https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews/status/323929131588919298)

[Red Mage Black]

I think I'll take a break from 4chan today, not that I ever needed to go there in the first place. Pictures from what happened are up and... it really makes me sick. Opportunists taking those kinds of gruesome pictures. This isn't new in terms of 4chan standard fare, but considering this happened near me. I got to get a hold of my cousin and make sure he didn't head in-town Boston today.

[Krylo]

Let's see what a Fox News employee has to say (https://twitter.com/YourAnonNews/status/323929131588919298)

Can't tell if satire or reverse Poe's law.

[Magus]

At least we know he'll be fired. Fox News lets their anchors get away with a lot but just straight up saying in plain English "let's kill all the Muslims" without any kind of code words or innuendos they aren't going to put up with.

[Bells]

According to him it was "sarcasm" cause "Muslims do that to the USA everyday".

he is on all out flamewars taking all comers on twitter... my 2 cents? There is a LOT of other places and people more deserving of focus right now...

[POS Industries]

So I got to walk into the breakroom just now to hear everyone pointing their proverbial finger at every nonwhite ethnic group they could think of, so I'm already not looking forward to the continued aftermath.

[Loyal]

I just hope they're able to resolve this without more people getting hurt. I don't believe anyone I know was in the area, so that's a relief.

[synkr0nized]

So I got to walk into the breakroom just now to hear everyone pointing their proverbial finger at every nonwhite ethnic group they could think of, so I'm already not looking forward to the continued aftermath.

This kind of reaction makes me hope it's a white, heterosexual, Christian male. But I suspect even then these kinds of people will find someone else to blame.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I've assumed from the very beginning it's going to be a white male gone off the deep end. Absolutely none of this points towards a foreign terrorist group.

Had an interesting conversation with my dad today about the differences between "everyday violence" today as opposed to the 60s with the race riots and assassinations. Though, he's of the mind that back then was much more turbulent then today. Even with schools getting shot up every ten seconds.

Praying for the families. An eight year old girl just there watching a race. Fuck.

[Magus]

I don't know that it points to anybody yet. The lack of intelligence beforehand seems like it might not be Muslim extremists, true, but then again, just as likely as anything else. White nationalists/religious extremist (or a lone white nationalist/religious extremist) and Muslims extremists (or a lone Muslim extremist) are the only two groups or types of people I could really fathom. POS breakroom story must be at least sort of "funny" if they could really be blaming other groups besides the two most obvious possibilities.

[Bells]

Right now it doesn't bother me who could potentially have done this... but the fact that it seems like a overly organized attack is way more troubling.

[Magus]

Right now it doesn't bother me who could potentially have done this... but the fact that it seems like a overly organized attack is way more troubling.

That's why it's probably organized by a group instead of just one lone nut. I suppose one person could build, place and arm four bombs, but it would be easier with a cell.

[Bells]

Remote detonation is not really a thing usually used. Timer is more reliable for "home made stuff" that's why is more commonly used. And if it fails its more likely to simply not go off instead of exploding at the wrong time, which could happen with remote detonation.

Also, wasn't the 3rd bomb not detonated? It was recovered right? If that's the case, it makes it MUCH easier to track down who made it. You can do it out of fragments, but having the full intact explosive makes it a ton easier.

The news here reports at least 130 people injured, 3 dead and apparently a good dozen still in life threatening risk. That plus the people who got amputations or severe wounds of some other sort.

The entire world is out to see the most paranoid 4th of july in the USA in the last few years...

[Aerozord]

I've assumed from the very beginning it's going to be a white male gone off the deep end. Absolutely none of this points towards a foreign terrorist group.

Had an interesting conversation with my dad today about the differences between "everyday violence" today as opposed to the 60s with the race riots and assassinations. Though, he's of the mind that back then was much more turbulent then today. Even with schools getting shot up every ten seconds.

Praying for the families. An eight year old girl just there watching a race. Fuck.

no he is correct, it just gets reported on more often. You heard about this bombing mere minutes after it occurred. Back then how many people questioned if violence against protesters even happened.

Statistically violent crimes and terrorism have been in decline since then. I mean come on do you seriously think today has more animosity and inequality than a time when most of the US population couldn't even vote.

[Loyal]

Remote detonation is not really a thing usually used. Timer is more reliable for "home made stuff" that's why is more commonly used. And if it fails its more likely to simply not go off instead of exploding at the wrong time, which could happen with remote detonation. Considering the bombs went off just as people were crossing the finish line in large groups, remote detonation is by far more likely.Also, wasn't the 3rd bomb not detonated? It was recovered right? If that's the case, it makes it MUCH easier to track down who made it. You can do it out of fragments, but having the full intact explosive makes it a ton easier.
The police did a controlled detonation of the third bomb, and mentioned they might be "blowing up things" throughout the next few hours as of their press conference. I doubt they have intact explosives they can mess with. If they do, they haven't mentioned it.

[POS Industries]

POS breakroom story must be at least sort of "funny" if they could really be blaming other groups besides the two most obvious possibilities.
South Americans and "11 million Mexicans" we're named along with such gems as "all those middle easterners are crazy" so it was pretty much just a racist free-for-all. Also noted was "they just let anyone in there" in regard to a public street in a major metropolitan city so the running theme was pretty much "blame anyone with a melanin content."

I'm sure it would have been a laugh riot if it weren't in light of a bunch of innocent people being maimed and killed.

[Kim]

This kind of reaction makes me hope it's a white, heterosexual, Christian male. But I suspect even then these kinds of people will find someone else to blame.

They will blame those with mental illness.

Like they always do.

Because it's only because of the group they belong to if they're not white or not christian or not straight or not cis or not whatever. If you're white, it must be because you were mentally ill, regardless if we have any info validating that and regardless of the fact that such assumptions increase the culture of ableist bigotry.

[Bells]

Considering the bombs went off just as people were crossing the finish line in large groups, remote detonation is by far more likely.

Its not impossible, that's for sure. But less common certainly.

Considering the amount of injuries at no more than waist high and the fact that (unless i got this wrong since its all new info) all explosions took place on the same side of the street down from one another, it could just as well be a bag or box placed down on the floor , maybe like an hour or something before detonation...

Still, the place, the date, the time... i gotta tell ya, maybe its just a bad gut feeling, a reactionary thing... but this feels like domestic political fueled terrorism to me.

[POS Industries]

Apparently numerous Murdoch-owned media outlets are reporting that a Saudi national is in custody as a "person of interest," which may be true but I'm skeptical due to not being able to find a source that isn't complete shit and even then it's sounding right now like he may just be the nearest arab they could grab at the scene.

[synkr0nized]

They will blame those with mental illness.

Like they always do.

Because it's only because of the group they belong to if they're not white or not christian or not straight or not cis or not whatever. If you're white, it must be because you were mentally ill, regardless if we have any info validating that and regardless of the fact that such assumptions increase the culture of ableist bigotry.

Yeah, exactly. By golly, Billy Everyteen must have some kind of issues or something! <cue the manhunt into a suspect's life to uncover clues of illness regardless of anything>

@POS: I cannot help but feel that's them pushing an agenda / view.



When this happened, I was in a meeting. My colleague had a cousin (I think he said cousin) that had been planning on getting to the finish line around that time, but unsurprisingly he wasn't able to get through to him for most of the afternoon. I suggested that it was likely due to a lot of congestion as folks called one another to check up, spread the word, etc. and hopefully he'd get through to him later. Hell, even walking out of Beaver Stadium during a big game provides a slim chance for your phone to connect and actually get on the network, and that's hardly a fraction as big as this.

To go back to Bob's post about what his dad said -- it's certainly true that the ever-increasing prevalence of mobile devices and networks makes it far easier for news, or even just chatter, about any event to permeate the nation much more quickly and more explicitly. I believe folks in my department -- certainly those who study the use of technology as "sensors" and their potential impacts in crisis and emergency response -- could point to a few studies that affirm the [likely common sense] claims that this kind of news spreads faster and wider.

I think it is interesting that someone who's gone through race riots and the civil rights era or the Vietnam protests, etc. and the like feels that today doesn't compare. I've only minimally talked one-on-one with folks about what that was like, about the raw impact of the events and how the news carried them. There's the sense that, if it was covered nationally, it really was an issue or big event. But I am straying off-topic.


I, initially, was thinking timers, like he/she/they knew roughly when folks would be hitting the finish line in groups and worked it that way, but signs sure do point to a remote detonator (I suspect during my errands and lack of checking up on the story I have missed the obvious articles claiming the latter?). It is my opinion that it takes a little more anger or "evil" to be willing to sit and watch your detonation as opposed to leaving it.

[POS Industries]

@POS: I cannot help but feel that's them pushing an agenda / view.
I'm leaning heavily toward that. The most I can find is a couple local news affiliate sites saying "such and such told CNN" about it, but then I can't find anything on CNN about it. So it's possible CNN initially reported it but weren't able to confirm it, so they stopped. However, it's something that furthers the Murdoch agenda, so they're continuing to report it.

Although apparently I'm hearing that it was reported heavily on TV, since my dad heard about it from CBS, but the internet isn't giving me anything other than Republican propaganda outlets.

---------- Post added at 11:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:04 PM ----------

Hey wait, hang on, I found something from 4 hours ago from Boston.com, which seems like they'd have a good handle on the situation and I'm not finding anything more recent:

Boston police commissioner says no suspect is in custody in marathon explosions. (http://www.boston.com/news/local/massachusetts/2013/04/15/boston-police-commissioner-says-suspect-custody-marathon-explosions/4eFH8vdHpMB6dGJHV17veK/story.html)

Seems pretty clear cut there.

[Aerozord]

They will blame those with mental illness.


aspergers is the latest scapegoat.

[Bells]

on CNN there is this new info

Authorities in Boston found at least one other explosive device that they were dismantling, Boston Police Commissioner Ed Davis said.
Rep. Bill Keating of Massachusetts, meanwhile, said two more were found.
One unexploded device was found at a hotel on Boylston Street near the bomb site and another unexploded device was found at an undisclosed location, Keating, a Democrat and member of the House Homeland Security Committee, said. He called the bombing a "sophisticated, coordinated, planned attack."

In addition to scrutinizing images of surveillance cameras in the area, the FBI likely was issuing subpoenas for records from cell towers in the area to isolate and trace calls from around Copley Square at the time of the blasts, according to a former federal law enforcement official who now works in the intelligence community.
The unexploded devices that were recovered could provide a treasure trove of information such as fingerprints and indications of the bomb maker's design, and from the bombs that did explode, investigators would be looking for fragments and anything indicating the "signature" of the bomb makers, the official told CNN.

But also this....

Investigators warned police to be on the lookout for a "darker-skinned or black male" with a possible foreign accent in connection with the attack, according to a law enforcement advisory obtained by CNN. The man was seen with a black backpack and sweatshirt and was trying to get into a restricted area about five minutes before the first explosion, the lookout notice states.
Also, a Saudi national with a leg wound was under guard at a Boston hospital in connection with the bombings, but investigators cannot say he is involved at this time and he is not in custody, a law enforcement official said Monday evening.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I'm glad they at least have a person of interest. Hard to fathom how you would go about investigating something like this, narrow it down to one person, then actually go out and find them.

[Red Mage Black]

Not that I have much to add on this issue, but from watching Fox news last night, I heard there was a bomb found in the hospital garage, I believe it was. So they targetted not only the marathon runners, but also apparently the emergency crews.

Though honestly, while not insane in the sense of a psychopath, anyone who has the mental capacity to injure and kill without remorse has something wrong with them. That's just my two cents about it though. I heard about the 8 year old girl last night. That's pretty horrifying to think about when I'm around just my 6 year old nieces.

[Bells]

Be glad you didn't see the worst pictures of the bombing... some of that stuff is really gut turning. Looking from afar or from what we see on TV, one might think there is just some blood and shrapnel... then the internet steps in with full glory with the pictures of the young runners and crowd members that had their legs blown off.........

i'm a safety technician, i work with a fire brigade, i've seen my fair share of severe injuries up close... but the context around this one makes me wish my curiosty had let this one pass by...

I mean, you have to take in account the fact that this was an attack made to be seen. in full notion of all the cameras and live coverage that goes in events like these... it was designed with that in mind.

[Red Mage Black]

Oh, but you're wrong on that count. I HAVE seen the severe injuries from the bombing, as /b/ and some people on Facebook made sure of that one. Including some that were killed. The only picture I didn't see and don't wish to see, was what happened to the little girl.

[RobinStarwing]

I've been watching some of the news since last night regarding this bombing.

My mother thinks this was a loner doing the deed.

I...am not so sure. Too much of it seems too well-planned and thought out. So far, no one has yet claimed responsibility for the bombing as of my last viewing but that could of changed seeing as I just got up and read up on the NPF forum.

FUX News will always further it's agenda though and if it means saying someone did it and that they are in custody furthers it (even when false) well...no surprise there.

I think right now, rather then speculating about who did it...we need to put our prayers and energy towards the victims and their families as well as Boston as a whole. Grieve first...than find the bastard(s) who did this and make them Eunuchs before shipping them off to some cold dark place for all eternity.

If we truly want to find who did this...let's put the power of the internet to work. An asshole or assholes like this have to had blabbed about it somewhere.

[Bells]

doesn't have to babble. he was probably on camera. I think it was on CNN where i read this, but there was an effort to collect photos and videos from the day around the hours of the event, cause it is believe that it is quite likely that someone caught the person in picture even if by accident...

Security cameras and footage is already being looked through. It is very much likely that the bombs where placed during the event, amidst the crowd. And considering how afar they where from each other... i'm on the fence about a single person or a group effort.

With one of the explosives being studied and footage and pictures being delivered in, i wanna be hopeful and say that by the weekend we will have someone to look for.

[Red Mage Black]

On another note and I know this was pointed out, but, "Everyone board the Blame Train! Toot! Toot!" (http://publicshaming.tumblr.com/)

[shiney]

The thing that upsets me about this (outside of the fact that it happened at all) is how instantly it was politicized. Damn muslims, damn right-winger tea partiers, damn left-wingers trying to blame right-wingers, damn anarchists.

America has/had a chance to show some solidarity and leadership regarding how we handle this, but as soon as the political machine sinks its teeth into it you can bet this will become just another bitter divisive issue that will serve only to separate the people of the nation.

/bitter today

[RobinStarwing]

I agree with shiney. We should be standing united...not climbing aboard the blame train en masse to blame everything and everyone we can possibly think of.

[Bells]

Bullshit floats to the surface. Look past the partisan stories and what you see is a LOT of great people doing good work to help others. From the runners who went from the marathon to the hospital to donate blood for those who need it, to the many drives and group efforts for relief, first responders... there are a ton of great stories and hopeful ones too... but it gets muffled under by the sound of Hyper extreme news media cycle...

[Sifright]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/16/boston-marathon-explosions-notes-reactions

I read this article and it struck a bit of a chord with me in how true it rings.

[POS Industries]

So they're still looking into this "person of interest," but they don't actually have any hard evidence linking him to the crime whatsoever. (http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57579774/fbi-boston-pd-very-interested-in-saudi-person-of-interest/)

I'm still chalking this one up to a case of "being arab at the scene of a bombing" until there's actually something substantive here, and I'm certainly dismayed that merely being arab at the scene of a bombing is apparently reason enough to have a search warrant for your apartment obtained.

[RobinStarwing]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/16/boston-marathon-explosions-notes-reactions

I read this article and it struck a bit of a chord with me in how true it rings.

I want proof of what he says about how the US does the same thing. As far as I know, this kind of thing is against the Geneva Conventions and I think we are still a signatory member.

So, he needs to cite sources that are mainstream newspaper sources rather than online blogs were people can spew shit. I want hard facts. The sources listed either are drawing conclusions from published articles that don't even make those conclusions or are listening to propaganda from journalists paid by or working with the Taliban/Al Quaeda to disseminate misinformation/propaganda to further their cause.

[Bob The Mercenary]

http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2013/04/16/saudi_national_no_longer_person_of_interest_in_bos ton_bombings_no_other_suspects

Probably the same thing as has been posted, but apparently the Saudi is no longer a person of interest, along with everyone else.

[Osterbaum]

I want proof of what he says about how the US does the same thing.
Proof like any wars in recent memory the US might have started? Or any funding to extremist groups in the past? The multiple drone attacks going on all the time in Qatar, Yemen and Pakistan? And the list goes on, take your pick.

[mauve]

According to CBS News, authorities have determined that the Saudi national who was held for questioning and whose home was searched was NOT involved--rather, it turns out he was an injured victim of the bomb.

[RobinStarwing]

Proof like any wars in recent memory the US might have started? Or any funding to extremist groups in the past? The multiple drone attacks going on all the time in Qatar, Yemen and Pakistan? And the list goes on, take your pick.

I think you miss what I am talking about in my request.

I want proof that rescuers and civilians were attacked willingly with the intent to hurt civilians as per the claims made. I can understand cover-ups but so far the only name names and no citing of local paper sources. There is also the fact that their Researchers could be looking and interpreting what they find to fit their world view.

I am not arguing the funding of extremist groups or anything but my knowledge of that is so far only from the Cold War and not many others in recent memory. I may be missing holes in my knowledge and memory. As to the recent wars; it's war...crap happens.

What happened in Boston was a deliberate attack on civilians and government officials to instill terror and fear through the use of cowardly bombs.

[POS Industries]

According to CBS News, authorities have determined that the Saudi national who was held for questioning and whose home was searched was NOT involved--rather, it turns out he was an injured victim of the bomb.
Yeah, that was pretty much the most obvious scenario and it's horrible that he had to undergo even more trauma as a result.

[Magus]

I think you miss what I am talking about in my request.

I want proof that rescuers and civilians were attacked willingly with the intent to hurt civilians as per the claims made. I can understand cover-ups but so far the only name names and no citing of local paper sources. There is also the fact that their Researchers could be looking and interpreting what they find to fit their world view.

I am not arguing the funding of extremist groups or anything but my knowledge of that is so far only from the Cold War and not many others in recent memory. I may be missing holes in my knowledge and memory. As to the recent wars; it's war...crap happens.

What happened in Boston was a deliberate attack on civilians and government officials to instill terror and fear through the use of cowardly bombs.

Shh, it's Glenn Greenwald. Writing articles like that is his entire schtick.

[shiney]

Robin, what does intent matter if innocent people still end up dying? The US perpetrates a program of targeting and killing suspected insurgents with reckless disregard for collateral damage. There are mountains of documented evidence on this. Don't try to make an equivalency that somehow the US is not as bad because we don't explicitly and purposefully target random civilians. At the end of the day, the survivors don't care if we say it was an accident. Their loved ones would be alive if we weren't flying around dropping bombs on shit in the name of "national security".

[Magus]

I don't think you can make an equivalency that they are AS bad, either, though. They're slightly less worse.

Greenwald is making an analogy. I think people forget that analogies are not one-to-one equivalencies. It is a comparison made to point out similarities, in this case, the end result is civilian deaths. It is not taking into account intentions.

[Osterbaum]

Here's (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/comment/2013/04/the-saudi-marathon-man.html?mobify=0) something about the saudi "person of interest".

A twenty-year-old man who had been watching the Boston Marathon had his body torn into by the force of a bomb. He wasn’t alone; a hundred and seventy-six people were injured. But he was the only one who, while in the hospital being treated for his wounds, had his apartment searched in “a startling show of force,” as his fellow-tenants described it to the Boston Herald, with a “phalanx” of officers and agents and two K9 units. He was the one whose belongings were carried out in paper bags as his neighbors watched; whose roommate, also a student, was questioned for five hours (“I was scared”) before coming out to say that he didn’t think his friend was someone who’d plant a bomb—that he was a nice guy who liked sports. “Let me go to school, dude,” the roommate said later in the day, covering his face with his hands and almost crying, as a Fox News producer followed him and asked him, again and again, if he was sure he hadn’t been living with a killer.

Why the search, the interrogation, the dogs, the bomb squad, and the injured man’s name tweeted out, attached to the word “suspect”? After the bombs went off, people were running in every direction—so was the young man. Many, like him, were hurt badly; many of them were saved by the unflinching kindness of strangers, who carried them or stopped the bleeding with their own hands and improvised tourniquets. “Exhausted runners who kept running to the nearest hospital to give blood,” President Obama said. “They helped one another, consoled one another,” Carmen Ortiz, the U.S. Attorney for Massachusetts, said. In the midst of that, according to a CBS News report, a bystander saw the young man running, badly hurt, rushed to him, and then tackled him, bringing him down. The bystander thought he looked suspicious.

What made them suspect him? He was running—so was everyone. The bystander handed the man to the police, who reportedly thought he smelled like explosives; his wounds might have suggested why. He said something about thinking there would be a second bomb—as there was, and often is, to target responders. If that was the reason he gave for running, it was a sensible one. He asked if anyone was dead—a question people were screaming. And he was from Saudi Arabia, which is around where the logic stops. Was it just the way he looked, or did he, in the chaos, maybe call for God with a name that someone found strange?

What happened next didn’t take long. “Investigators have a suspect—a Saudi Arabian national—in the horrific Boston Marathon bombings, The Post has learned.” That’s the New York Post, which went on to cite Fox News. The “Saudi suspect”—still faceless—suddenly gave anxieties a form. He was said to be in custody; or maybe his hospital bed was being guarded. The Boston police, who weren’t saying much of anything, disputed the report—sort of. “Honestly, I don’t know where they’re getting their information from, but it didn’t come from us,” a police spokesman said. But were they talking to someone? Maybe. “Person of interest” became a phrase of both avoidance and insinuation. On the Atlas Shrugs Web site, there was a note that his name in Arabic meant “sword.” At an evening press conference, Ed Davis, the police commissioner, said that no suspect was in custody. But that was about when the dogs were in the apartment building in Revere—an inquiry that was seized on by some as, if not an indictment, at least a vindication of their suspicions.

“There must be enough evidence to keep him there,” Andrew Napolitano said on “Fox and Friends”—“there” being the hospital. “They must be learning information which is of a suspicious nature,” Steve Doocy interjected. “If he was clearly innocent, would they have been able to search his house?” Napolitano thought that a judge would take any reason at a moment like this, but there had to be “something”—maybe he appeared “deceitful.” As Mediaite pointed out, Megyn Kelly put a slight break on it (as she has been known to do) by asking if there might have been some “racial profiling,” but then, after a round of speculation about his visa (Napolitano: “Was he a real student, or was that a front?”), she asked, “What’s the story on his ability to lawyer up?”

By Tuesday afternoon, the fever had broken. Report after report said that he was a witness, not a suspect. “He was just at the wrong place at the wrong time,” a “U.S. official” told CNN. (So were a lot of people at the marathon.) Even Fox News reported that he’d been “ruled out.” At a press conference, Governor Deval Patrick spoke, not so obliquely, about being careful not to treat “categories of people in uncharitable ways.”

We don’t know yet who did this. “The range of suspects and motives remains wide open,” Richard Deslauriers of the F.B.I. said early Tuesday evening. In a minute, with a claim of responsibility, our expectations could be scrambled. The bombing could, for all we know, be the work of a Saudi man—or an American or an Icelandic or a person from any nation you can think of. It still won’t mean that this Saudi man can be treated the way he was, or that people who love him might have had to find out that a bomb had hit him when his name popped up on the Web as a suspect in custody. It is at these moments that we need to be most careful, not least.

It might be comforting to think of this as a blip, an aberration, something that will be forgotten tomorrow—if not by this young man. There are people at Guanátanmo who have also been cleared by our own government, and are still there. A new report on the legacy of torture after 9/11, released Tuesday, is a well-timed admonition. The F.B.I. said that they would “go to the ends of the earth” to get the Boston perpetrators. One wants them to be able to go with their heads held high.

“If you want to know who we are, what America is, how we respond to evil—that’s it. Selflessly. Compassionately. Unafraid,” President Obama said. That was mostly true on Monday; a terrible day, when an eight-year-old boy was killed, his sister maimed, two others dead, and many more in critical condition. And yet, when there was so much to fear that we were so brave about, there was panic about a wounded man barely out of his teens who needed help. We get so close to all that Obama described. What’s missing? Is it humility?

[RobinStarwing]

Robin, what does intent matter if innocent people still end up dying? The US perpetrates a program of targeting and killing suspected insurgents with reckless disregard for collateral damage. There are mountains of documented evidence on this. Don't try to make an equivalency that somehow the US is not as bad because we don't explicitly and purposefully target random civilians. At the end of the day, the survivors don't care if we say it was an accident. Their loved ones would be alive if we weren't flying around dropping bombs on shit in the name of "national security".

So basically, you are saying everything the US has done to try to make bombs smarter and minimize Civilian Casualties is a load of bumkiss?

Are you aware of how the Taliban/Al Queada and similar groups like to use Hospitals, Schools, and even Mosques as headquarters? That they do and will make sure there are as many civilians around them as possible? If not, than consider this an eye opener as to the fact that the people who perpetrate these kinds of acts like Boston and other attacks don't give a damn about civilian casualties.

I feel bad that an innocent man got railroaded for a little bit but at least his name was cleared.

As of this morning, they believe they are looking at a Pressure Cooker IED filled with screws, nails, ball bearings, and bebes with gunpowder possibly as the explosive. Crude but still effective.

[Bells]

Robin, there was never any real reason to consider him anything but "clear of all suspicion"... kinda like being arrested for a crime you didn't commit. You might just spent the night in Jail and be released once the confusion gets cleared out... but its not simply "let us all put this behind us"...

Specially since in this situation, we have clear cut examples of explicit prejudice against him.

Also, what i THINK shiney was getting at... is that no amount of civilian casualties is ever "ok". And that the USA reducing the number of deaths caused by an action they initiated is nothing to praise about. It doesn't matter who started what, ordering a strike that will take innocent lives out is, and always will be, a terrible thing regardless of scale.

Also, you are linking the Boston attack to Al Queada... nobody can make that affirmation right now.

[tacticslion]

The thing that upsets me about this (outside of the fact that it happened at all) is how instantly it was politicized. Damn muslims, damn right-winger tea partiers, damn left-wingers trying to blame right-wingers, damn anarchists.

America has/had a chance to show some solidarity and leadership regarding how we handle this, but as soon as the political machine sinks its teeth into it you can bet this will become just another bitter divisive issue that will serve only to separate the people of the nation.

/bitter today


... this was something that really surprised me as well. I guess it shouldn't have, but it really did.

We've no hard evidence at all. I mean it's like blaming the violent crime (whatever it is) that statistically happened about 23 seconds ago (https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sclient=psy-ab&q=how+often+are+violent+crimes+committed&oq=how+often+are+violent+crimes+committed&gs_l=hp.3..0.9459.22228.1.22559.30.23.0.7.7.3.142. 2085.18j5.23.0...0.0...1c.1.9.psy-ab.jmkp21uB_K8&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.45368065,d.eWU&fp=b438cf73bc656435&biw=1007&bih=631) on <insert group here> for all the evidence you have. I mean, it's human nature to speculate, but speculation is one thing, outright politicizing and blaming/finger-pointing any of them is really bizarre.

I'm praying for the for those harmed and killed and their families, that they heal quickly (when applicable), and really hoping those responsible are swiftly brought to justice.

EDIT: nevermind I rethought my edit.

[shiney]

So basically, you are saying everything the US has done to try to make bombs smarter and minimize Civilian Casualties is a load of bumkiss?

Yes. They put an awful lot of research into making sure they can kill more accurately and efficiently, and still there are stories constantly, if not daily, about another innocent killed by the US. We are a nation of killers, and our leadership are a group of murderers. It is not a crime to be anti-American in the middle east, but we sure as hell are trying to make it be one.

Are you aware of how the Taliban/Al Queada and similar groups like to use Hospitals, Schools, and even Mosques as headquarters? That they do and will make sure there are as many civilians around them as possible? If not, than consider this an eye opener as to the fact that the people who perpetrate these kinds of acts like Boston and other attacks don't give a damn about civilian casualties.

They certainly are monsters. Does the fact that they are monsters make it OK for the US to kill innocent people and then say "Oops"? Let's say, let's just say, someone from Yemen, or Pakistan, comes to the US and kills a military member along with several innocent bystanders. But, they didn't mean to kill those bystanders. By your argument we would have no right whatsoever to argue this person is inherently wrong, because "oops".

Al Qaeda is certainly comprised of horrible people who do horrible things. The US has a great opportunity to be the country we proclaim we are, and stand firm against that, and stand for justice. But instead, we end up killing innocents in high-profile cases and end up making ourselves look even worse, because of an off chance that the person we were actually targeting might be planning an attack on the US that, given precedent, will fail miserably.

We bomb brown people and suffer NO repercussions apart from making more brown people hate us harder than before. We then bomb those brown people, and the cycle continues. Our smart bombs are not smart enough, and they never will be. We need to stop bombing brown people altogether and fuck off from that part of the world.

[RobinStarwing]

Robin, there was never any real reason to consider him anything but "clear of all suspicion"... kinda like being arrested for a crime you didn't commit. You might just spent the night in Jail and be released once the confusion gets cleared out... but its not simply "let us all put this behind us"...

Specially since in this situation, we have clear cut examples of explicit prejudice against him.

Also, what i THINK shiney was getting at... is that no amount of civilian casualties is ever "ok". And that the USA reducing the number of deaths caused by an action they initiated is nothing to praise about. It doesn't matter who started what, ordering a strike that will take innocent lives out is, and always will be, a terrible thing regardless of scale.

Also, you are linking the Boston attack to Al Queada... nobody can make that affirmation right now.

I was not. I was trying to make a comparison. You are right, no amount of civilian casualties is acceptable.

The point I was trying to make was that the US policy is to go out of it's way to minimize civilian casualties. The people responsible for Monday don't give a damn about who is around when they do shit like this..or they want as many civilians around as possible.

And Shiney, you have good points. But may be that these civilian deaths are because the people we are going after are using civilians as Human shields and forcing the people on the ground to make hard choices that they will have to live with. Also, again I point out that war sucks.

I understand you are former military yourself and respect that and ask you, if it was you on the ground and you had intel linking a group of terrorists using a functioning hospital or school or mosque to an attack on either nearby civilians or even the country.

What would you choose to do if using manpower on the ground is out of the question due to logistics or political concerns?

I know, the math sounds cruel and cold and I personaly hate it. I also understand that this is the nature of things. If I had my choice, I would make every last bastard who wanted to fight a war do it all themselves and leave people out of it. As Lelouch said, "The only ones who should kill, are those who are prepared to be killed."

[Sifright]

I was not. I was trying to make a comparison. You are right, no amount of civilian casualties is acceptable.

The point I was trying to make was that the US policy is to go out of it's way to minimize civilian casualties. The people responsible for Monday don't give a damn about who is around when they do shit like this..or they want as many civilians around as possible.

And Shiney, you have good points. But may be that these civilian deaths are because the people we are going after are using civilians as Human shields and forcing the people on the ground to make hard choices that they will have to live with. Also, again I point out that war sucks.

I understand you are former military yourself and respect that and ask you, if it was you on the ground and you had intel linking a group of terrorists using a functioning hospital or school or mosque to an attack on either nearby civilians or even the country.

What would you choose to do if using manpower on the ground is out of the question due to logistics or political concerns?

I know, the math sounds cruel and cold and I personaly hate it. I also understand that this is the nature of things. If I had my choice, I would make every last bastard who wanted to fight a war do it all themselves and leave people out of it. As Lelouch said, "The only ones who should kill, are those who are prepared to be killed."

Bullshit.

[Kim]

The point I was trying to make was that the US policy is to go out of it's way to minimize civilian casualties.

This is fucking bullshit. We do double-tap drone strikes, which are against international law and that kill civilian first responders.

[shiney]

I would say "Let's get the fuck out of here, quit killing them altogether, and beef up our incoming security to determine point of origin and affiliations."

I would not say "I have to kill this guy even if it means women and children die."

I would also suggest that, if the people of that area of the world want to depose these horrible people from corrupting their lives, culture and religion, then maybe we shouldn't actively participate in empowering them by murdering friends and family that are uninvolved in the conflict. Maybe, just maybe, we don't exactly have a sovereign right or moral superiority when we are in someone else's country killing their citizens on the shadiest of permissible grounds.

e: and, per the above, in violation of international law.

[Sifright]

This is fucking bullshit. We do double-tap drone strikes, which are against international law and that kill civilian first responders.

I know guys who served in the Us military, supposedly there is a running joke when training people to use 50.Cal mounted machine guns on vehicles that if you are asked about it you should say you using it against the enemies equipment because using 50. Cals against people is against the Geneva convention.

[RobinStarwing]

I would say "Let's get the fuck out of here, quit killing them altogether, and beef up our incoming security to determine point of origin and affiliations."

I would not say "I have to kill this guy even if it means women and children die."

I would also suggest that, if the people of that area of the world want to depose these horrible people from corrupting their lives, culture and religion, then maybe we shouldn't actively participate in empowering them by murdering friends and family that are uninvolved in the conflict. Maybe, just maybe, we don't exactly have a sovereign right or moral superiority when we are in someone else's country killing their citizens on the shadiest of permissible grounds.

e: and, per the above, in violation of international law.

So you are saying we sit back and let them come to us or maybe they will leave us alone if we leave them alone?
...
Missing the point entirely.

This is a case of being damned if we do and damned if we don't. If we don't do anything, we get painted as cowards. If we do something, we get painted as evil baby-killers.

Also, how much of it is their own propaganda machine just as much as we have one here state-side? Do you think their own media they control is any more truthful than ours? I think both are full of bullshit.

EDIT: I should point out that I've never served myself and quite frankly...I couldn't order a weapons strike knowing even one civilian is in the area. But I can try to see it and think about the possible actions they have for taking on the ground over there.

[shiney]

Robin, I think it's a good time for you to get over the naivete that the US is somehow the good guys on the global stage. We're not the good guys. We're not necessarily the bad guys either, but we're definitely not the good guys. We perpetuate double-tap drone strikes. We interfere in other countries governments. We invade countries based on lies. We kidnap people and hold them indefinitely without trial. We torture people. We rig the system against the common man both domestically and abroad. We protect the rich and condemn the poor. We imprison people for minor offenses, in facilities run for profit. We enable a state of increasingly militarized police. We actively perpetuate racism as a major tenet of a party platform. We engage in socioeconomic engineering to purposefully suppress upward mobility. We discriminate against huge swaths of people whose only crime is being different from the perceived norm. We allow the media to run rampant through our society, destroying the lives of people who should be well-adjusted except for being presented 24/7 with an image that is completely unattainable.

We kill innocent people in a misguided war on an intangible thing called "terrorism".

We already lost, Robin, and we're just making it worse every single day.

[RobinStarwing]

Robin, I think it's a good time for you to get over the naivete that the US is somehow the good guys on the global stage. We're not the good guys. We're not necessarily the bad guys either, but we're definitely not the good guys.

I know this. Hell, I hate it myself. I'd rather this whole fucked up game we play get the reset button hit on it and we try again. We as a species are FUCKING BETTER THAN THIS SHIT!


We perpetuate double-tap drone strikes. We interfere in other countries governments. We invade countries based on lies. We kidnap people and hold them indefinitely without trial. We torture people. We rig the system against the common man both domestically and abroad. We protect the rich and condemn the poor. We imprison people for minor offenses, in facilities run for profit. We enable a state of increasingly militarized police. We actively perpetuate racism as a major tenet of a party platform. We engage in socioeconomic engineering to purposefully suppress upward mobility. We discriminate against huge swaths of people whose only crime is being different from the perceived norm. We allow the media to run rampant through our society, destroying the lives of people who should be well-adjusted except for being presented 24/7 with an image that is completely unattainable.

We kill innocent people in a misguided war on an intangible thing called "terrorism".

We already lost, Robin, and we're just making it worse every single day.


We as a species have lost this whole thing. We go about our lives like sheep and when all our needs and most of our wants are met, we do not give a fucking crap about anything else unless it affects our life directly. We go gaga over the latest idiot with a song, preteen porn book about fantasy creatures, etc. while in other areas of the world kids and infants starve to death or are marked as witches just for symptoms of malnutrition.

Quite frankly...ugh...I need to ponder and think. But I am not blind or naive or overly patriotic...I know the US sucks on many levels these days (I for one live in the results of that suckage). I am sick and tired of the fact we know we can do better but choose not too. The ultimate Act of Sheer Stupidity on our species part.

EDIT: I do apologize for the stance I took and this post is actually how I feel at the heart of the matter. We as a species, with all our intellect and ability are far better than how we act. I know this because of what I try to hold as ideal and what I believe in. We are capable of great amounts of good and yet many of us choose to either be blind and not actively fight against the evil nor do we accept how capable some of us are of doing depraved acts and learning to channel that energy to more positive actions and thoughts. Some even instead choose to embrace doing evil in the name of God or gather power for power's sake "in the name of God."

These are many of the reasons I dropped out of church and went Pagan. (Sorry to bring religion into this but I felt saying this might give some insight into how I think.)

[shiney]

We as a species are absolutely fine. All you need for evidence there is to watch the responders running toward the injured people yesterday, in spite of the bombs. The people who continue to live in spite of bombers in the middle east. The push toward equality we are still going through, progress every day.

We as a nation are completely fucked and run by despots. They are no better than the dictators of the middle east, except that they don't use the military to brazenly and openly murder citizens in broad daylight. They let the police do that.

People would also be well served to rise up against the rich who dictate the terms of our survival in re: food, economy & environment. Those guys are basically responsible for everything that's going wrong and the people feel like they are powerless against it. It's a remarkably low percentage of our total population, in the thousandths or millionths of a percent, but given their power and wealth they have a disproportionate impact on the entire world.

[Bob The Mercenary]

Hoshit!

http://www.fark.com/goto/7704494/http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/us/boston-blasts/index.html%3Fhpt%3Dhp_inthenews

Also, my roommate was in one of the first units to enter Iraq. He said they absolutely despised one of the higher ranking members because he had a tendency to go from house to house through villages, lob a grenade through the door, and move on. He said he saw entire families laid waste by this guy. In the end he was arrested and sent through whatever criminal process they have in the military. Not sure what the final sentence was though.

[tacticslion]

I find it interesting that a pressure-cooker bomb would be a thing so shortly after this what-if xkcd strip (http://what-if.xkcd.com/40/).

Of course, this has absolutely nothing to do with the bombing itself (and in that strip he basically says that pressure cookers aren't bombs), but the timing is kind of... well, it's not "ironic" (though common use would probably accept it as such) and because of the serious subject matter, it's not "funny", but you guys know what I mean.

Strange, I guess.

[POS Industries]

Hoshit!

http://www.fark.com/goto/7704494/http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/17/us/boston-blasts/index.html%3Fhpt%3Dhp_inthenews
And now we're back to no arrest having been made. (http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2013/04/17/source-arrest-made-in-boston-bombing/)

---------- Post added at 03:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:21 PM ----------

Also I feel exceptionally dumb that it only just now came to my attention that the bombings were perpetrated on tax day.

GEE GUYS I WONDER WHAT THE MOTIVE WAS HERE

[Sifright]

It was obviously a North korean, mexican, communist muslim.

[POS Industries]

It was obviously a North korean, mexican, communist muslim.
Well, obviously.

[Tev]

Well, obviously.And not at all some person (let's not rule out the ladies here) who just was mad that s/he had to pay taxes.

[Menarker]

Westboro Church intends to picket funeral of Boston Victims. Claims God sent bombs to punish USA for not having death sentence for homosexuals. (http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/04/16/boston-bombing-funerals-will-be-picketed-westboro-baptist-church-says)

If it wasn't enough proof before that this particular sect are scum, this should be convincing enough.

[Red Mage Black]

Westboro Church intends to picket funeral of Boston Victims. Claims God sent bombs to punish USA for not having death sentence for homosexuals. (http://www.usnews.com/news/newsgram/articles/2013/04/16/boston-bombing-funerals-will-be-picketed-westboro-baptist-church-says)

If it wasn't enough proof before that this particular sect are scum, this should be convincing enough.

I've been waiting to hear their bigoted take on this and it's no surprise. Lets just say that where they'd go, Dorcester,MA, is not a very friendly place to be in Boston. I don't even need to state what will happen if they show up and start spouting their hatred. As much as I hate violence upon other human beings, not everyone shares that same view.

As for that petition to keep them out of Boston? I doubt it will work. They haven't been here yet, so they've given no reason to be banned from Mass yet.

EDIT: I don't mean to say they'll get violent unless someone provokes them in such a way, but they will be very belligerant locals.

[POS Industries]

I don't mean to say they'll get violent unless someone provokes them in such a way, but they will be very belligerant locals.
Considering that the WBC's entire scam revolves around doing this shit to provoke locals into giving them any reason whatsoever to file a lawsuit, let's just hope that the locals are only belligerent up to a point.

[Loyal]

The news has been circulating around us for the past couple of days now and responses have ranged from counter-protests and human blockades to boxing in their cars, refusing to serve them at restaurants, and generally making their stay as miserable as possible.

Also, interesting article (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/04/why-bostons-hospitals-were-ready.html?mobify=0) on the level of preparedness displayed by Boston medical personnel following the explosions.

---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 AM ----------

Update: Human wall was formed, (http://i.imgur.com/v9Ntju6.jpg) but WBC wound up no show-ing.

[RobinStarwing]

Update: Human wall was formed, (http://i.imgur.com/v9Ntju6.jpg) but WBC wound up no show-ing.

Not surprising...I think they got the memo they were not wanted.

The other option is they've become Attention Sluts (Whores get paid for it) and will say anything to get a reaction...AKA Trolls.

[Sifright]

Not surprising...I think they got the memo they were not wanted.

The other option is they've become Attention Sluts (Whores get paid for it) and will say anything to get a reaction...AKA Trolls.


well now... I... You... it.......bluh

::V::ohdear::crying:

[Red Mage Black]

The news has been circulating around us for the past couple of days now and responses have ranged from counter-protests and human blockades to boxing in their cars, refusing to serve them at restaurants, and generally making their stay as miserable as possible.

I don't find that surprising at all. When you're talking about people staying in your city and coming to mock the tragedy that happened so close to home. (Figuratively speaking) Saying that it was 'an act of God'. As far as 'human kindness' can go, I think they deserved what they got.


Also, interesting article (http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/newsdesk/2013/04/why-bostons-hospitals-were-ready.html?mobify=0) on the level of preparedness displayed by Boston medical personnel following the explosions.

I feel incredibly proud of them. They knew what to do and saved dozens of lives. Makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.


---------- Post added at 11:45 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:55 AM ----------

Update: Human wall was formed, (http://i.imgur.com/v9Ntju6.jpg) but WBC wound up no show-ing.

That many people is kind of daunting, but as I stated above, no big surprise.

[Kim]

The other option is they've become Attention Sluts (Whores get paid for it) and will say anything to get a reaction...AKA Trolls.

Yo can can we talk shit on the WBC without slutshaming please?

[Amake]

The thing to remember is, as POS already pointed out, Westboro Baptist are trolls, who pretend to believe a thing and then argue for it in order to get a reaction. They're literally not worth listening to, engaging with or acknowledge in any way. Their business model only works as long as they can get us to care about them.

[shiney]

The other option is they've become Attention Sluts (Whores get paid for it) and will say anything to get a reaction...AKA Trolls.

The irony of this statement is not lost on us. Be aware of the language you're using, if you haven't noticed we're trying to clean up our discourse around here and that's not helping.

The word slut or whore would be best left in the dustbin of history at this point.

[Odjn]

Yo can can we talk shit on the WBC without slutshaming please?

This, please.

The last time WBC promised to protest New York they sent like two guys. We had a pretty fun time protesting them anyway.

[Kim]

Current suspects are two white dudes.

All the media are leaping at, "Well, you can't be sure they're American based on the video," and, "They might be part hispanic!!"

This shit is fucking disgusting and I want every news station to burn down.

[Bob The Mercenary]

http://www.theonion.com/articles/jesus-this-week,32105/

Well...the Onion's always good for a laugh.

[shiney]

Current suspects are two white dudes.

All the media are leaping at, "Well, you can't be sure they're American based on the video," and, "They might be part hispanic!!"

This shit is fucking disgusting and I want every news station to burn down.

When it's determined they are both white guys, it will become a right vs. left thing. The media needs a scandal, god forbid they let a crisis go to waste.

[POS Industries]

Current suspects are two white dudes.

All the media are leaping at, "Well, you can't be sure they're American based on the video," and, "They might be part hispanic!!"

This shit is fucking disgusting and I want every news station to burn down.
They seriously look like every fratbro ever, I really don't know where the wiggle room here is.

[Bells]

it doesn't have to be a Physical trait to there be wiggle room... all they have to do is have a Foreign last name, a religious reading material at their home or make any sort of political comment at all if and when their voices are heard for there to be an "angle" to put a label on them and transform the evil person who did a shitty thing into a member of a much bigger group who is now scary cause someone "from there" bombed innocent people...

Also, i woudln't expect the FBI to release videos and photos of them unless they already knew where to look for them. So is this they baiting the guys out? Like... trying to force them to flee while they look on every terminal and check most roads?

Or maybe they already know where the guys are and are just checking to see if they are more than just suspects.

Gotta remember... there was a LOT of finger pointing not too long ago. A suspect is still a suspect afterall. Gotta have some confirmation...

[Magus]

I'm not going to jump to any conclusions about their race, since even the best picture is just a long-distance profile pic of the one guy. The rest are blurry as all hell.

[synkr0nized]

There's a lot happening in Boston tonight, it seems. There was a shooting of an MIT officer, and currently reports claim one of the suspects is in custody after some kind of engagement.

example coverage (http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/19/us/boston-area-violence/index.html)
live coverage (or was still running when I posted) (http://livewire.wcvb.com/Event/117th_Running_of_Boston_Marathon)

e: Someone also vertical-recorded** video on their phone of a gunfight, as well, like within this last hour in Watertown.


Like, seriously, fucking stop recording in portrait with your cellphones, everyone. Holy shit.

[Marc v4.0]

It's a good thing we spent so much time throwing blame at every slightly darker-skinned ethnic group for these terrible acts, otherwise we might not have caught these two white guys!

[Sifright]

White person commits crime!? UNPOSSABLE.

[Bob The Mercenary]

Anyone watching the news right now? They've completely locked down a few towns near Boston. Not letting anyone leave their homes or open businesses.

[Loyal]

Yeah, the MBTA got completely shut down till further notice. My dad tells me he literally cannot remember a prior time they've ever done something like this.

[Bob The Mercenary]

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/20/us/boston-marathon-bombings.html?partner=MYWAY&ei=5065&_r=1&

Holy shit.

---------- Post added at 06:51 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:31 AM ----------

Hearing a report that they are from either Chechnya or Turkey, military trained, been here one year.

[Sifright]

Great so still foreign nationals.

Time for more xenophobia in usa.

[POS Industries]

Great so still foreign nationals.

Time for more xenophobia in usa.
Yuuuuuuuup.

It looks like they're almost certainly Chechen, which really is a shame since the Russian treatment of the Chechen people is absolutely something that deserves more international interest and is now going to be completely disregarded by your average American in favor of labeling Chechnya a bunch of freedom-hating savages or whatever shitty thing we'll come up with for them.

Or we'll just stick with the usual Islamophobia.

[Bob The Mercenary]

Pretty much. But now they've changed the story to saying they've been here several years as legal residents. This is so bizarre, this whole thing.

[Bells]

its the second wave of shit storm in the media. Are you seeing any stupid "they are russian spies" shit yet? Cause even though that makes no sense, i would expect to see that.

The good thing is that they were caught. And fast. That's what really matters.

The rest of the stuff is left to still be figured out. That will take a couple of days.

[RobinStarwing]

its the second wave of shit storm in the media. Are you seeing any stupid "they are russian spies" shit yet? Cause even though that makes no sense, i would expect to see that.

The good thing is that they were caught. And fast. That's what really matters.

The rest of the stuff is left to still be figured out. That will take a couple of days.

They just had the Uncle of the two boys on. The two did not have military training and as of two weeks ago, were not radicalized. The family feels great shame for what these two did but they were not military trained nor did they hate America two weeks ago. He basically called them Losers and any use of Islam to justify their acts was cowardice and fraud of every Muslim's heart (and I agree).

Also, one of the two is dead by shootout with the cops. The other is either in custody or they got him pinned down and unable to run from where he is hiding. The worry right now is pipe bombs as it was confirmed both were still carrying lots of explosives when they were being chased by Law Enforcement.

News Conference on now so I will edit with the info from that.

EDIT: Lockdown still in affect. No one is to answer their doors unless they see it is a Boston Police or other Law Officer. They do not have him yet. I think it is rather awesome that the mayor is out and about even with a broken leg. :) I think the Gorvernor has soe injuries he should be staying in bed for but if I lived in the city and state...I'd vote for these guys again!

There will also be controlled explosion of some of the bombs they have found by Bomb Squad.

[Bells]

Just for the less educated me to know. Is "lock down" in the same line of thought that ends up with "under siege"? Cause from reports that i'm looking to everywhere, the city is pretty much locked down from end to end with FBI and the police force combing everything through, so i supposed this is not "Boston under siege" simply because the military is not on the ground? And a lack of Bruce Willis?

I also saw reports saying that the gunned down Bomber had explosives on him. Right this instant, i'm not 100% willing to believe that.... BUT... considering that it might just be true... the worries me that they may have though that "we are not getting away with this, so lets go out taking as many as we can with us" and the FBI simply got to them first...

But on that same note... not radicalized up to the last 2 weeks? Is that really all that it takes to break someone down from being a completely normal person to go "die or kill but do it big" ? Seems so little time to warp someone to that degree...

[phil_]

But on that same note... not radicalized up to the last 2 weeks? Is that really all that it takes to break someone down from being a completely normal person to go "die or kill but do it big" ? Seems so little time to warp someone to that degree...What it means is that jumping to blame religion or lack of religion or brainwashing or mental illness as explanations for crimes is lazy and unreliable. "Normal" people can do bad things just as well as The Other. These guys could very well have thought that blowing up runners would accomplish something worth killing people over. It's hardly a rare formulation *cough cough* killing terrorz *cough*. That doesn't make them insane or brainwashed, it makes them murderers.

[POS Industries]

It's also entirely plausible that the attacts weren't politically or religiously motivated at all. Apparently, combing through their social media pages showed feelings of isolation and depression over difficulties really connecting with people and making friends. They may have merely suffered from unresolved emotional issues that drove them to violence.

Much like the immediate aftermath of the Gabby Giffords shooting, we're looking at the greater political climate (which is especially easy to do because of all these surrounding circumstances) and then it could easily turn out to have nothing to do with any of it because we're only looking at them based on where they're from more than who they are.

We just don't have enough info to come up with a clear motive yet.

[Bells]

Indeed, sadly we already know that the narrative that can be pushed through that is one of "they are foreigners in america, being ostracized over a long period of time for being foreigners. Not being able to connect or relate in a country with a hair-trigger for blaming "the other", which eventually promotes an emerging sense of sociopathy in these teenagers towards their peers, which inevitably erupted in violence"

I'm not even saying that this narrative is absurd... just saying that i will not be surprised if i hear an analysis like this floating around before motive is even found.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I don't know, I just keep thinking that if it would have come out that these guys were Tea Party lifetime members of the NRA this thread would have taken a slightly different tone.

[Osterbaum]

I think it is rather awesome that the mayor is out and about even with a broken leg. I think the Gorvernor has soe injuries he should be staying in bed for but if I lived in the city and state...I'd vote for these guys again!
That's the point.

[POS Industries]

I don't know, I just keep thinking that if it would have come out that these guys were Tea Party lifetime members of the NRA this thread would have taken a slightly different tone.
We don't know that they're not. :smug:

But in all seriousness, I'm just as guilty of making assumptions about the situation based on surrounding circumstances that may turn out to be completely unrelated. After all, a bombing on a date that is both tax day and Patriots' Day is something that could cause a person to jump to conclusions about it being right wing anti-government terrorism, just as these guys' home country and religion can inspire the same sort of jumping toward other conclusions.

That was an error on my part, and I'm willing to admit tot that.

[Sifright]

nah, see they aren't equatable.

One is based around the idea of peoples life choices and decisions they have made, whilst the other is based on making a sweeping judgement based on a persons ethnicity and country of origin.

I would argue it's a false equivalence.

[POS Industries]

I agree, but I'm trying to be nice.

---------- Post added at 07:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:57 PM ----------

Also it's still kind of a dick move to be all "I BET THIS WAS REPUBLICANS" when it was not at all Republicans this time and really only circumstantial evidence that it might have been.

But it's nowhere near as bad as the treatment the Saudi victim that was tackled and investigated for no other reason than merely being arab at the scene of a bombing or any of the other abhorrent racist shit that's gone down as a result this week, which many on the right are not only refusing to apologize for but are celebrating as heroic vigilence.

I'm willing to admit to having been wrong and unfair in my misjudgment. That doesn't mean those guilty of worse shouldn't do the same and then some.

[mauve]

For those few who don't already know/ haven't turned on a tv in the past half hour:

Suspect 1 is dead. Suspect 2, the younger brother, is thought to be hiding in a backyard in Watertown MA. Police have the area surrounded. SHots heard; no official confirmation on what they were. CBS, CNN are live, other networks probably are as well.

[Red Mage Black]

Kind of sick of hearing some people say that Boston is under "Martial Law." When as far as I know, the police/FBI only made a 'request' of the citizens to stay indoors and shut off their cell phones.

Another thing I'm getting sick of seeing is people taking pictures of the police out in force and saying things like, "Do they really need all of this to capture one guy?" and "This is the beginning of the end for the United States," and my favorite one by people claiming to be from Europe, "Have fun with your Police State."

[Mr.Bookworm]

They just reported that he's in custody.

Confirmed, if anyone hasn't heard it by now. (https://twitter.com/Boston_Police/status/325409894830329856)

[Magus]

It's also entirely plausible that the attacts weren't politically or religiously motivated at all. Apparently, combing through their social media pages showed feelings of isolation and depression over difficulties really connecting with people and making friends. They may have merely suffered from unresolved emotional issues that drove them to violence.

Much like the immediate aftermath of the Gabby Giffords shooting, we're looking at the greater political climate (which is especially easy to do because of all these surrounding circumstances) and then it could easily turn out to have nothing to do with any of it because we're only looking at them based on where they're from more than who they are.

We just don't have enough info to come up with a clear motive yet.

I think the feelings of isolation and depression made the older brother easier to radicalize (not sure exactly how radicalized the younger one is, a lot of people seem to be implying he was more of a follower to the older one who had a lot of influence on him). After the trip to Chechnya apparently the older one started posting a lot of out-there Jihadi stuff on his Youtube channel and so on, whereas the younger one is by all accounts a very sociable person, even supposedly hanging out with buddies the night right before the bombing. It may not have been external radicalization by an specific outside group but rather internal radicalization within himself, though.

You're right the picture is not completely clear, but I think dancing around the fact that it does indeed seem to be connected to Muslim extremism is avoiding a subject which needs to be contextualized all over again in the media as soon as possible as clearly not representing the absolute vast majority of the members of Islam, because a lot of the Islamaphobia is going to pop up again to post-9/11 levels from where it currently is (which is still pretty high but not quite as bad as it was several years ago). I think the media needs to emphasize this probably starting tomorrow. NPR has done a good job of being very careful in how they 1. described the suspects all along and 2. the subject of it being a Muslim terrorist. Unfortunately we probably can't expect the same thing from the right-wing media outlets but if the center/left ones tackle the subject ASAP I think it can mitigate the public furor that might be brewing.

RE: The Manhunt

I am glad he has been captured, apparently still alive? It's important that he be brought to justice in the proper manner and I'm glad that despite the "Bruce Willis in The Siege" imagery that Bells brought up and which did indeed kind of describe how people were feeling towards the lock down, the authorities showed restraint which allowed him to be capture.

It's unfortunate that the security guard at MIT lost his life, especially in such a pointless scenario. These two guys, despite the planning that went into the initial despicable attack, clearly had no real "end scenario" in mind. The older one seemed to have something along the lines of martyrdom in mind with the further IEDs and suicide vest, but between the convenience store robbery and car jacking and all that, it's clear these guys were desperate and way out of their depth. I wish someone could have seen how they were going down this rabbit hole before any of this happened, and I wish they could have been stopped before even more pointless death occurred.

EDIT:

Republican Senators John McCain and Lindsey Graham called for Tsarnaev to be held as an enemy combatant.

Wow, these cocksuckers never stop.

The guy is guilty. There is enough evidence to easily give him life in prison. I think there is enough to give him the death penalty, honestly. Quit being douchebags, you stupid motherfuckers.

Jesus. I'm just so sick of stupid fuckers saying stupid things. Why do they insist on compounding the errors of recent history which will forever stand as a black mark on our country by continuing to make historical villains out of themselves? Do they have absolutely no shame for their own legacies that they will be leaving for future generations to look at? My God.

Also I heard the government officials are debating not reading him his Miranda rights before questioning him (he is in the hospital, I assume unconscious). So pointless. Just do things by the book, people. There's no reason not to, and every reason to do it, because you will just give his defense lawyer ammo when it goes to court (and I have no doubt it will go to civilian court, despite what Senator Fuckhead and Senator Doucheface are "calling for", like they have any goddamned authority to make a call like that as legislators).

[Osterbaum]

Another thing I'm getting sick of seeing is people taking pictures of the police out in force and saying things like, "Do they really need all of this to capture one guy?" and "This is the beginning of the end for the United States," and my favorite one by people claiming to be from Europe, "Have fun with your Police State."
Well you are already living in, or on your way to, and inreasincly policed state. The fact that the police even have this kind of resources on hand is indication of that.

[Magus]

Well, they're the FBI, not the regular state or local police. I am a bit surprised by the full-on camouflage gear and night-vision, though that might have been the Massachusetts national guard the reporter was describing as the FBI walking up the street. The FBI as far as I know wears dark blue uniforms/flak jackets with FBI on them in big yellow letters. I have the feeling that group of soldiers was actually national guardsmen since they were out in force as well, with two helicopters.

I don't see this as some kind of new found knowledge we live in a police state, we've lived in a police state since September 11, 2001. Anyone reading the new report on the use of torture by the U.S. military should know we live in a police state. Maybe the average person really is that unaware of their surroundings, I dunno.

National guardsmen having humvees/helicopters/machine guns is not some kind of new thing, so if that is the standard for a police state then we've been living in a police state for several decades and not just since 2001.

[RobinStarwing]

Well, they're the FBI, not the regular state or local police. I am a bit surprised by the full-on camouflage gear and night-vision, though that might have been the Massachusetts national guard the reporter was describing as the FBI walking up the street. The FBI as far as I know wears dark blue uniforms/flak jackets with FBI on them in big yellow letters. I have the feeling that group of soldiers was actually national guardsmen since they were out in force as well, with two helicopters.

I don't see this as some kind of new found knowledge we live in a police state, we've lived in a police state since September 11, 2001. Anyone reading the news report on the use of torture by the U.S. military should know we live in a police state. Maybe the average person really is that unaware of their surroundings, I dunno.

National guardsmen having humvees/helicopters/machine guns is not some kind of new thing, so if that is the standard for a police state then we've been living in a police state for several decades and not just since 2001.

The FBI does have camouflage outfits for situations like this and helicopters and heavy motorized vehicles as well for said situations. They were dealing with a potentially dangerous armed subject and needed him quickly.

[Sifright]

The FBI does have camouflage outfits for situations like this and helicopters and heavy motorized vehicles as well for said situations. They were dealing with a potentially dangerous armed subject and needed him quickly.

it's always a source of amusement for me, that USA police agencies have more fire power than some militarizes in other countries.

by amusement I mean i find it jarring and it subverts expectation.

[Osterbaum]

Yeah, it's also pretty much one of the staples of a police state to have heavily armed law enforcement.

Did you know that in the UK for example cops didn't use to carry guns? Of course, it's apparently become much more widespread to carry guns or have groups of officers with guns at the ready than before. Over here I don't think the police have any other weaponry besides pistols, except for the small SWAT type unit. Sometimes they borrow armored transports from the military.

Actually, and a bit more on topic, I heard reports that the police had been performing illegal searches of peoples homes during the manhunt on friday. This apparently included threatening random people with guns.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I heard they were getting milk for people who were out. >_>

[TheSpacePope]

Actually, and a bit more on topic, I heard reports that the police had been performing illegal searches of peoples homes during the manhunt on friday. This apparently included threatening random people with guns.

This is what frightens me the most, violation of our rights based on a premise that seems legitimate at the time. I.e. the bombers may be in your area, and then using information obtained during the search for subsequent arrests. (Not of bombers)

[Magus]

This is what frightens me the most, violation of our rights based on a premise that seems legitimate at the time. I.e. the bombers may be in your area, and then using information obtained during the search for subsequent arrests. (Not of bombers)

Well they would have to go get a warrant with the things listed that they saw during their initial search and do a re-search later, since the first would not be legal. I assume if you are a drug dealer and had coke all over the coffee table when the cops barged in looking for the terrorist, you would be smart enough to get rid of it in the interim before they return with the search warrant to look for cocaine so they can arrest you for it.

[TheSpacePope]

Magus, that is exactly what I mean. Technically they have no legal grounds for the second warrant, since the evidence collected to obtain it was illegal itself. Granted, these people would be criminals, but polive ciecumventing the law to make arrests is unconstitutional in its very nature.
To speak to the matter, I am glad they caught the second guy and am simuntaneously wierded out that I watched it on tv.

Kind of reminds me of a movie.

But to a far greater point, why bomb the marathon. All I've read seems to be dubious in nature minorly connecting them with islamic fundamentalists. Did I miss something?

[Magus]

Yeah it occurred to me after I posted it that if they could establish that the police investigation's beginning coincided with the day they did door-to-door searches and looked in their house that they would easily be able to get it thrown out, because they could establish that the police had no prior interest in them before getting into their house for ostensibly other reasons.

As for why they picked the marathon, most have theorized that as Boston residents for so many years, they felt it was the event that most represented Boston because it was not only this century old marathon but also a local Massachusetts holiday called Patriots day.

As for their connections to Islamic fundamentalists, I don't think there are any connections to an actual group. It's theorized that Tamerlane was indoctrinated on his last visit to Chechnya about a year ago since immediately after that he started a Youtube channel with dozens of videos about Islamic jihad prophecy and such.

Djokhar has been painted as sort of a hanger-on to Tamerlane, not particularly interested in the Islamic extremism but following his brother's commands.

I assume they'll clarify stuff as Djokhar continues writing things down.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Magus, that is exactly what I mean. Technically they have no legal grounds for the second warrant, since the evidence collected to obtain it was illegal itself. Granted, these people would be criminals, but polive ciecumventing the law to make arrests is unconstitutional in its very nature.

Possibly.

If I break into your house, find a bunch of child pornography, take the porn, steal your TV on the way out the door, and then give it all to the police, they have legal grounds to search your house (I'm forgetting exactly what that rule is called and am failing at Google) despite the fact that it was found through some illegal-as-hell means. I'm uncertain if it applies to the cops themselves, though.

As for their connections to Islamic fundamentalists, I don't think there are any connections to an actual group. It's theorized that Tamerlane was indoctrinated on his last visit to Chechnya about a year ago since immediately after that he started a Youtube channel with dozens of videos about Islamic jihad prophecy and such.

I think if they had any connections, they would have probably not been knocking over a 7-11 to get cash.

Which doesn't preclude them being religiously-motivated lone gunmen, but who knows.

Anyway, in saner news, they're not going to be doing that whole enemy combatant thing a bunch of Republican congressman wanted. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-22257451)

[Osterbaum]

Well, first of all
The surviving suspect in the Boston Marathon bombings has been charged with using a weapon of mass destruction, the US Department of Justice says.
what the fuck?

And here's (http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/20/boston-marathon-dzhokhar-tsarnaev-mirnada-rights) Glenn Greenwald again.

[Bells]

That... just... is that confirmed? Cause.. it feels so backwards. I mean, why the hell would you charge him with that? There is nothing you can achieve in this case with that sentence that you can't also achieve with other charges that actually make sense...

I mean, Home Made crude explosives constitue WMD's now?

[Mr.Bookworm]

A weapon of mass destruction in the criminal sense is not the same thing as a weapon of mass destruction as used elsewhere. A WMD is just defined as anything designed to cause, well, mass destruction. So, yeah, a bomb count as WMD.

[Sifright]

A weapon of mass destruction in the criminal sense is not the same thing as a weapon of mass destruction as used elsewhere. A WMD is just defined as anything designed to cause, well, mass destruction. So, yeah, a bomb count as WMD.

...

I'd love to see some case law regarding that, because calling it a wmd at this point sounds like a complete asspull.

Otherwise just owning a bag of fertilizer and a pressure cooker (I own both of these things) Means I have a weapon of mass destruction in my property.

the fuck dude.

WMD has always always always been used to refer to biological agents which cause mass death or nuclear weapons/Hyperbaric weaponry.

Lumping in any old bomb with that definition is disingenuous as hell

[Mr.Bookworm]

...

I'd love to see some case law regarding that, because calling it a wmd at this point sounds like a complete asspull.

Here (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2332a) and here (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/921).

It's not like legal definitions always match common-use ones.

Otherwise just owning a bag of fertilizer and a pressure cooker (I own both of these things) Means I have a weapon of mass destruction in my property.

Not unless you assemble a bomb and use it. Owning it is almost certainly illegal as well, but that's probably a different law.

[TheSpacePope]

BOOM, THANKS HUFPO (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/22/boston-suspect-denies-terrorist-groups_n_3135523.html)

Well here is an interesting story, they are not claiming that the bombings had anything to do with anything Foreign, just that they were acting alone.

[Magus]

I think it's clear they weren't actually in touch with foreign terrorist groups because otherwise that FBI investigation of Tamerlane would have turned up the connections. They acted alone. I didn't even know they were still investigating that aspect of it.

I think there is some idea in people's heads that its impossible for someone to be a Muslim extremist and not somehow be connected to some huge organization. The only requirement is to be 1. an extremist (the most important part), and then 2. also a Muslim. It's entirely possible to pursue a similar agenda as other groups while being entirely independent of other groups.

[Azisien]

We're just so instinctively used to large corporations being horrendously evil, we sometimes forget singular individuals can be too.

[Flarecobra]

And here, they mention their... motovation. (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/tsarnaev-condition-motive-wars-193132367.html)

Is there really such a thing as "Self-radicalization?"

[RobinStarwing]

And here, they mention their... motovation. (http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/lookout/tsarnaev-condition-motive-wars-193132367.html)

Is there really such a thing as "Self-radicalization?"

Unfortunately...yes. It's the reasoning behind some Lone Wolfs.

[Japan]

This is a pretty classical case of cause appropriation. Generally speaking "terrorists" are young men with a sense of frustration that attaches itself to an ideological narrative. Many times they are not actually of the oppressed, but can find some tangential connection between themselves and the oppressed to justify action which inexorably proceeds from nebulous to deadly specific.

These young men lived the relatively privileged life of United States residents. They had a tenuous cultural connection to those actually oppressed in Chechnya and so formulated a narrative consistent with their increasingly radical worldview. Sadly it all amounts to nothing more than public masturbation that just so happens to kill people.

Some people never attain wisdom, whether by choice or circumstance. These young men will have died young of their ignorance. The people who fund individuals like this, who provide that radically violent narrative, simply decided to eschew personal evolution for this grotesque infantilism. Ironically those who cry for blood in response, who so easily transpose vengeance over justice, suffer a similar affliction.

I am confronted with a realization, that perhaps the greatest tragedy is that the world has never wanted for brave men.

[Sifright]

This is a pretty classical case of cause appropriation. Generally speaking "terrorists" are young men with a sense of frustration that attaches itself to an ideological narrative. Many times they are not actually of the oppressed, but can find some tangential connection between themselves and the oppressed to justify action which inexorably proceeds from nebulous to deadly specific.

These young men lived the relatively privileged life of United States residents. They had a tenuous cultural connection to those actually oppressed in Chechnya and so formulated a narrative consistent with their increasingly radical worldview. Sadly it all amounts to nothing more than public masturbation that just so happens to kill people.

Some people never attain wisdom, whether by choice or circumstance. These young men will have died young of their ignorance. The people who fund individuals like this, who provide that radically violent narrative, simply decided to eschew personal evolution for this grotesque infantilism. Ironically those who cry for blood in response, who so easily transpose vengeance over justice, suffer a similar affliction.

I am confronted with a realization, that perhaps the greatest tragedy is that the world has never wanted for brave men.

Well now if we are waxing lyrical about this allow me to rebut.

All these shootings and bombings look the same to me. There's always a lonely, depressed young guy who thinks his life is shit. It might or might not be shit, but he thinks it is. He knows he won't get anywhere, won't do anything of note, that his life will soon be over and nothing will have changed.

He begins to wonder the point of everything. He has a job, he has people around him. Still he feels alone, like no one understands. Everyone seems to have goals and dreams, yet to him those dreams seem common, pedestrian, unremarkable. He envies those who so easily walk through life with none of these thoughts. And with time he comes to resent them. Even as he walks and talks and works among them, he begins hating every single one of them. Because they don't understand.

Now quickly it gets worse. His mind turns to dark thoughts. He walks the small, sharp corners of the life he has and sees the people he hates. Inside, he wonders what it might take to truly and forever escape this prison, to so completely change things. Outside, people walk past him, smiling, and though he spirals out of control, no one notices. He smiles back.

And then one day the thought strikes him. A show. An audience. No message, no reason. Just for the sake of breaking out. But he doesn't rush. He has time because no one sees him. So he thinks and plans and prepares. All the information is freely available on the web. All the materials are easily obtained. The stage is set and the props are in place. The audience is out there, always, just waiting for a good show. He's finally the protagonist.

Boom.

After the dust settles, the people who thought they knew him wander around saying things like, "I never would've expected it" and "He seemed so nice!" or "He was a quiet boy, came into my store every day". And finally: "Such a tragedy. I wished he'd spoken up. Everything could've been avoided."

Though they still don't understand, it doesn't matter anymore. Because he thinks he changed something, he left a mark. Now there's bullet holes in the cinema seats, and ashes and blood on the sidewalk, and rubble and broken glass in the park. For good or bad, everyone is talking about his show.

And somewhere out there, walking alone in the crowd, is another young man watching. He is fascinated. He wants to know why the kid did it. Because the kid's face is everywhere now, the news is flooded with people talking about him. And so the young man -- unseen, unheard -- wonders why, wonders how. He's not sure why the kid did it, but he's intrigued and eager to hear the answer.

And then one day the thought strikes him.

A show. An audience.

[Kim]

So, Reddit decided that they were fucking PROBLEM SLUETHS and sought out the True Bomber before the FBI announced any suspects.

The person they decided had done it has now been found dead. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/04/25/boston-bombing-social-media-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/)

EDIT: That article is shitty because it implies Reddit are responsible for the person being dead. I bought into it myself because I didn't have more information when I first saw it. It is worth acknowledging that Reddit have contributed to a family in morning having even more to be upset about, and that's still really shitty.

[Japan]

Sifright, what you are describing is quite literally the experience of every male between the ages of 14 and 20. Maybe that's a bit of hyperbole, but I'm sure you'd find a substantial majority of young men experience frustration and alienation to a larger extent than people in different age groups. Its called growing up.

Frustrated, angry, even violent young men do not all become terrorists however. That requires a special process and a particular subcultural influence. What you described is the soil into which the seed of extremism is planted, and it is a plentiful substance.

[Red Mage Black]

So, Reddit decided that they were fucking PROBLEM SLUETHS and sought out the True Bomber before the FBI announced any suspects.

The person they decided had done it has now been found dead. (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2013/04/25/boston-bombing-social-media-student-brown-university-reddit/2112309/)

EDIT: That article is shitty because it implies Reddit are responsible for the person being dead. I bought into it myself because I didn't have more information when I first saw it. It is worth acknowledging that Reddit have contributed to a family in morning having even more to be upset about, and that's still really shitty.

That is... I don't even know how to put it into words. Someone decided to enact social justice on an individual they believed to be responsible for Boston. A guy who... I think we pretty much confirmed... didn't do it. I can't tell if this person might have been influenced by stuff they saw on Reddit or maybe elsewhere on the net.

It's just getting scarier and scarier to see what the internet influences nowadays.

[Kim]

The person found dead was missing for a while before Reddit blamed them, so the death /probably/ doesn't have to do with the Boston bombing.

---------- Post added at 06:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:03 PM ----------

The surviving attacker for the Boston bombing was questioned for sixteen hours before being read his Miranda Rights.

[Ryanderman]

The surviving attacker for the Boston bombing was questioned for sixteen hours before being read his Miranda Rights.
Which I don't even understand. Everything he said in those 16 hours is now inadmissible in court. What exactly did they think they were gaining by not reading him his rights?

[Amake]

It's the next best thing if they can't ship him to Gitmo. If they can get him to spit out any terrorist connections off the record in that time, they (or more likely Homeland Security) can investigate those without leaving a trail. Which is probably important by some War on Terror kind of logic. It might interfere with the actual police investigation of this criminal but that's obviously a small price to pay for a chance to perpetuate the War on Terror.

[Geminex]

Which I don't even understand. Everything he said in those 16 hours is now inadmissible in court. What exactly did they think they were gaining by not reading him his rights?

It is, actually. There's an exception to the miranda rights called the "public safety exception". If authorities have "reasonable cause" to assume that you have information vital to public safety, they can interrogate you without legal council.

Reasonable cause, of course, can be something as petty as "this guy knows the location of an unattended gun". Which means it's less an actual exception, and more a license for authorities to ignore your Miranda rights when it's convenient, as long as they keep it under wraps. The supreme court's upheld this.

Whether statements are actually admissable is still up to the judges in question, but quite often, the statements are admitted in court.

In this case, the justification for the exception was that they claimed there might be more bombs out there, or that the Tsarnaev might have had more co-conspirators. Bullshit, of course, but there ya go. The task force that interrogated him apparently also included some gentlemen from the CIA, by the way, who, I'm sure, were more than happy to practice their craft far away from any pesky lawyers. The only reason they finally relented was that a judge ordered them to.

If Snake were still around, I'm sure he could give a better analysis, but there's an article that explains things in a bit more detail over here:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323789704578444940173125374.html

[POS Industries]

Of course, it's also worth noting that he wasn't in any condition to answer any questions during that period anyway due to the extent and nature of his injuries, so fat lot of good it did them anyway.

[Red Mage Black]

It is, actually. There's an exception to the miranda rights called the "public safety exception". If authorities have "reasonable cause" to assume that you have information vital to public safety, they can interrogate you without legal council.

Reasonable cause, of course, can be something as petty as "this guy knows the location of an unattended gun". Which means it's less an actual exception, and more a license for authorities to ignore your Miranda rights when it's convenient, as long as they keep it under wraps. The supreme court's upheld this.
Just one particular reason I hate our justice system.


Whether statements are actually admissable is still up to the judges in question, but quite often, the statements are admitted in court.
In which I think Judges tend to be 'one or the other'. They're SUPPOSE to be unbias, but we all know how that works out.


In this case, the justification for the exception was that they claimed there might be more bombs out there, or that the Tsarnaev might have had more co-conspirators. Bullshit, of course, but there ya go. The task force that interrogated him apparently also included some gentlemen from the CIA, by the way, who, I'm sure, were more than happy to practice their craft far away from any pesky lawyers. The only reason they finally relented was that a judge ordered them to.
Is there anyone else who finds it a little shifty when a major government agency gets involved? The FBI I can see, but the DHS and CIA are a little much. They were American citizens after all and despite the older brother's radicalism, it doesn't change what they were.

As for the Judge, I'd say it was a smart move as for what POS said. Can't get blood from a stone, after all. It was also likely that his brother didn't tell him everything in just the case that he got caught.

[Bells]

So, anybody following the super conspiracy about this case claiming irrefutable evidence that both accused were being chased by the feds way before they layed the bombs and that the arrested people were not the real culprits and that the one that was killed was killed after being in custody?

It even brought to my attention an actual picture of the one that got killed, and it is REALLY graphic. So please, if you don't like that shit, don't even bother to look it up.

[Glass Pencil]

I'm sure they were on someone's watch list by virtue of being foreign and Muslim. They're looking at a pretty basic procedural slip wherein a misspelling of his name on an airline ticket didn't flag his trip to one particular agency, but did for another. Apparently the two agencies do not share information as thoroughly as they should, nor do they share the same tools or practices.

Still, unless they had done something to warrant a... uh... warrant for full time surveillance I don't think anyone would have devoted enough resources to stop this attack before it happened. At this point its been turned into a political football and someone is trying score a touchdown by blaming someone else for fucking something up.

[Magus]

I think it's sad that people consider Reddit, which is basically just a glorified discussion forum, as a media source.

Like seriously, that would be like considering OUR discussions cutting-edge journalism.

[Marc v4.0]

Have you seen watch passes for journalism these days? I deserve a goddamn Pulitzer