Man of Steel kinda sucked but not painfully so.

[POS Industries]

So I went to see an early showing of Man of Steel tonight since my store was selling them for less than a regular movie ticket due to no one wanting to buy them, and since no one was buying them I wouldn't have to deal with a full theater which is pretty much the best way to see movies. It was not horrible.

I actually really liked the first act, which explored Clark's early life and motivations via a series of disjointed flashbacks. Going back and forth between his childhood and his adult life worked a lot better visually than simply progressing through his life chronologically, at least in terms of not feeling cheesy. It then all works to come back around later, since it leads to Lois discovering Clark's identity in what was sort of a hilariously easy manner. The fanboy in me reacted negatively to this at first, but on the other hand it makes more sense given that Lois is supposed to be the greatest investigative journalist ever and it was always pretty stupid that she couldn't figure out that Superman was the big dork in the glasses sitting next to her every day for years.

Of course, Clark does a shitty job keeping his identity a secret through the whole movie anyway, so it's no surprise that he thought putting on a pair of nerd specs would fool people. Son of Krypton's greatest genius, indeed.

Otherwise, the movie was just a mess of Michael Bay-esque explosions, destroyed buildings, product placement, and authoritarian military dicksucking thinly hidden behind a veneer of high-minded introspection and washed-out broodiness that I've come to expect from the team of Christopher Nolan and David Goyer. In fact, the plot was very much along the same vein as Transformers: Our heroes in the US military battle an invading alien menace while the good guy alien punches them throughout a destroyed urban sprawl, ultimately creating more destruction and death than they stop.

At least a hundred thousand people had to have died during this movie, but Superman managed to catch a falling Lois a couple times so he saved the day enough to satisfy the audience, apparently.

Speaking of, this movie has not one, not two, but THREE damsels in distress. Lois Lane (naturally), Martha Kent, and a Daily Planet intern trapped under a pile of rubble. Superman also manages to snag a couple male soldiers out of harm's way, but none of them are played for the same degree of emotional impact as the women in need of rescue. It's a cheap dramatic tactic employed to appeal to the presumably mostly male audience a superhero movie would draw, and its overuse here is disappointing.

Kevin Costner's performance as Jonathan Kent is excellent--in fact, the acting from everyone here was great--but I feel that the writing was often confused about his motivations, though that may have simply been because the character himself was just as confused about what to do. He dies, of course, but the way he dies was changed from how it's typically presented in other media and didn't feel right to me. He's killed by a tornado as Clark and Martha watch, and while I get what they were trying to convey here, I feel it loses the lesson that Clark learns in other stories where Jonathan dies from a heart attack, because that's a thing Clark can't save people from. That inevitable, unstoppable fact of human mortality, a thing Clark may never have to experience himself but will inexorably have to suffer the pain of losing everyone around him, is something that has motivated him to make the most of being there for every loved one in his own life and to make the world a better place for the comparatively short time that everyone else on Earth gets to experience it. Jonathan dying in a way that Clark could have stopped, but didn't at his father's behest, robs Clark of this part of his personality, and merely transplants the "with great power comes great responsibility" lesson from Spider-Man. It's not a bad lesson, either, but it's not Superman's. The whole rest of the movie taught him that already.

Overall, I appreciate that this movie at least tries to explore Superman as a person more than previous movies have done, but I feel like it still ultimately failed to get a lot about the character than it could have, all while kinda rehashing a third act already done in the Avengers without any of the fun that Avengers had. Like the recent Batman movies before it, Man of Steel manages to deliver in everything but the writing, and I'm really hoping that people start catching on sooner than later that David Goyer is the worst part of every recent movie he's been a part of.

[Bells]

Surprised to see this, the movie was getting a LOT of positive feedback so far... but there were problems it seemed. I won't spoil myself just yet, i want to see this... but there is MY question:

Does it allow for justice league?

[POS Industries]

Does it allow for justice league?
Yeah, a little. They showed a Wayne Enterprises satellite in orbit during the final battle scene, in fact.

But I'm not too thrilled at the prospect of a JL movie with these guys in charge.

[phil_]

I'm looking forward to all the people who come in for the rest of the weekend with Walmart tickets expecting to get in. There will be shouting matches, most certainly.

[Aerozord]

while there is a range, generally I'm hearing, good. Not great, not horrible, just, good.

[Magus]

It's about 3/4 of a good movie, yeah.

EDIT: Also POS it didn't remind me of Transformers so much as Independence Day.

ANOTHER EDIT: Also Pa Kent wasn't quite as stupid as Uncle Ben in the Amazing Spider-Man but he was pretty close.

[POS Industries]

Also POS it didn't remind me of Transformers so much as Independence Day.
Yeah, I can see that. I mostly felt the Transformers parallel insofar as the involvement of good guy aliens, which Independence Day didn't have at all. Like Transformers with Independence Day's mood and ultimate solution, I guess.

[Magus]

There was also the shaky cam during the Krypton stuff which was terrible film making, ala Transformers. I think there was some at other points but much of the later action at least TRIED to be viewable. That Krypton stuff with the zooming in and out and the shaky cam was absolutely terrible, though.

EDIT: I actually hated everything about Krypton. I hated the design of the robots (I really hated the super-goo that is like, some futuristic 3D printer), I hated the dumb alien creatures, I hated the Matrix-esque cloning facility, I hated that Jor-El couldn't just keep his mouth shut and quietly sneak in, instead denouncing Zod to his face (for the terrible crime of shooting one of the dumb Elders and saying he will no longer clone their blood lines, when in fact he is not going to do that anyway because Jor-El is going to steal the codex, and also who cares if Zod kills people when they're all, literally all, going to die), I hated that Jor-El, Lara, and Zod all had completely different accents despite this being a unified mostly homogenous clone-based space society for 100,000 years. I hated that thing where Jor-El's wounded mount crash lands on the landing pad, because I knew it was coming.

Like I understand this movie had to have a lot of CGI, but all that Krypton stuff felt like completely overreaching when the original movie accomplished far more at creating an alien, otherwordly environment by just having everything glowy and white. This Krypton felt like a rejected Mars from John Carter or something.

---------- Post added at 02:44 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 AM ----------

Also some people are REALLY hating on this movie for the changes it made to Superman's origins and such. These are the same people who absolutely HATED Superman Returns for being boring, staid, and afraid to try new things with the characters. I wonder how they feel now vis a vis this movie versus Superman Returns? Are they just both equally bad in polar-opposite different ways now, I suppose?

[MSperoni]

*review of Superman*

That was a really good review, POS. It actually made me think about Superman in a way I hadn't before (but I really thought much about him, since out of the DC people I'm mostly a Batman fan). I was kinda curious to see it, but mostly because I like Kevin Costner and Michael Shannon. :P

Speaking of Batman, the last of the "trilogy" is on HBO tomorrow and I'm going to give it a whirl...

[Magus]

Another thing: am I correct in assuming Jenny is now a gender-swapped Jimmy for this new series?

I mean, I get you want to diversify the characters, but why not just go with gay Jimmy? That's pretty diverse! I liked Fishburne as Perry White (except for that stupid stud earring, which didn't seem like a Perry White thing to do). Well, I mean. I liked him to the extent that he and the other ancillary characters were just there to show people almost getting crushed by buildings, which did not appeal to me.

[POS Industries]

I was kinda curious to see it, but mostly because I like Kevin Costner and Michael Shannon. :P
Those are still perfectly good reasons to see this movie. Henry Cavill and Russell Crowe really nail it as Superman and Jor-El too, in my opinion. The only really weak point in the cast to me was Amy Adams, who wasn't all that bad either but I felt she played Lois too softly. That take-no-shit hard edge that really makes Lois work was missing here even if the writing in her introduction tried its best to sell it.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Those are still perfectly good reasons to see this movie. Henry Cavill and Russell Crowe really nail it as Superman and Jor-El too, in my opinion.

That's actually what I wanted to hear; I can stomach a lot of things in the Giant Shaky Explosion genre, but a bad Superman in a Superman movie is not one of them.

With the other stuff, though, I'll probably try to catch a matinee showing or something.

[Nique]

I saw it last night and I can confirm that POS review is 100% objectively correct because science.

[Azisien]

Saw it in 2D IMAX and do not regret the choice. All that shaky-action would have been extra hard to follow as my frontal lobe sizzled from the caked on 3D post-production.

Oh, right, the movie itself. I actually thought it was pretty awesome. A few questionable actors (Supes biological mother, trapped secretary) and a few questionable plot points (Jon Kent death scene, nanite tentacle world engine filler fight, magic black hole prison that doesn't destroy the Earth and disappears). Small bonus points for at least two Battlestar Galactica actors being in the movie and an AI that sounded like EDI.

Also I liked all of the acting from all of the main characters. Henry Cavill is a good Superman, Russell Crowe was great, Michael Shannon was great, Amy Adams was good though I might have a decade-long crush on her that affected her grading, the Kents were both good.

I was once a total fan of Zack Synder's cinematography although this movie seemed extra heavy on the random shots that looked like they belonged on Instagram or something. I'm still glad he was director, the movie was visually incredible. Superman movies need to have at least that many momentum tumbles through buildings going forward.

The pacing was good, with the moving backward and forward in time in lieu of an hour and a half of pure linear origin story that would put us to sleep until the last forty minute PunchFest. Final score 6.5/10, would Man of Steel 2.

[Bells]

Now, here is a fair comparison... this put up against Iron Man 1. What's the impression?

[Azisien]

I would have given Iron Man 1 an 8/10 for a numerical impression, but I'm too tired to give that a review again.

e: oh apparently Synder is directing Man of Steel 2. Cool.

[Nique]

...two Battlestar Galactica actors being in the movie and an AI that sounded like EDI.

Tricia (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1540125/) Helfer (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0407362/) is your android god (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1812523/).

But in this case you're hearing Carla Gugino (http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001303/) as the voice of Kelar.

[tacticslion]

Also some people are REALLY hating on this movie for the changes it made to Superman's origins and such. These are the same people who absolutely HATED Superman Returns for being boring, staid, and afraid to try new things with the characters. I wonder how they feel now vis a vis this movie versus Superman Returns? Are they just both equally bad in polar-opposite different ways now, I suppose?

I both love and hate Superman Returns, and for some of the same reasons. It's funny you should mention it, as I was just talking to my wife about it earlier today.

I probably won't derail to go into super*-detail here, but, yeah, I love so many elements of the movie, but just really wish Lois and Supes weren't both rather terrible people in it.
(Also the age of the actors in the sequel being substantially younger than the age of the actors in the first movie of the series was jarringly dissonant, but that's hardly their fault.)

Love myself some of that Hackman-esque Luthor, though and subtle homages/nods to comic canon.

Anyway, looking forward to seeing Man of Steel, soon, maybe with a whole group.

* Haha, get it?

[CABAL49]

If they really wanted to make a different Superman movie, they should have based it off Red Son. Which is also the best Superman comic.

[Magus]

They are already so reluctant to make movies based on the actual mainstream comics without trying to do Elseworlds stories.

They should do a DCUOA movie of Red Son, though.

[Bells]

The thing is that Superman works best in a world where there are OTHER heroes to focus on. He works on Justice League, not solo.

[CABAL49]

Batman and Wonderwoman were both in Red Son. But seriously, go read Red Son.

[Premmy]

The thing is that Superman works best in a world where there are OTHER heroes to focus on. He works on Justice League, not solo.

Noone "works" in that world. Don't tell people that, they'll believe it. People are stupid.

[Lumenskir]

I'm glad I'm not a hardcore Superman nut, because knowing that Zack Snyder is in control for the foreseeable future would be bleak.

Gotta love that Soundgarden music cue when Clark grabbed some flannel; Who says this movie was overly humorless?

[Magus]

I like how Clark just steals those clothes. Can't hold down a job and is basically a shiftless hobo.

Superman? More like Super BUM.

[Aerozord]

oh you mean Crazy Steve

[Aldurin]

Shortpacked! has basically got this down (spoilers). (http://www.shortpacked.com/2013/comic/book-15/01-about-face/theliewetellourselves/)

[Bells]

Can we talk spoilers now for a momment?

Why are people so upset about Superman Killing Zod if the same thing happens in Superman II ? A movie, BTW, that people are using as a flagship to say "Better than man of steel".

Really?!

[POS Industries]

My only problem with it is that, given how much time the movie put into selling them both as completely invulnerable, what with them smashing into buildings and flying into space and then plowing right back down to Earth and being just fine, that it was even possible to snap Zod's neck, even for Superman. Granted, Goyer had pretty much written himself into a corner on that one, but it was just a resolution that I somehow couldn't suspend my disbelief within the internal logic of the rest of the movie.

Also leveling Metropolis totally sets up for the next movie and I get why they did it and am even kinda looking forward to how it could play out despite my better judgment, but in giving Lex Luthor a leg to stand on about letting a godlike alien just fly around, I still don't really enjoy leaving the theater thinking, "Damn, Superman, you lame."

[Azisien]

My only problem with it is that, given how much time the movie put into selling them both as completely invulnerable, what with them smashing into buildings and flying into space and then plowing right back down to Earth and being just fine, that it was even possible to snap Zod's neck, even for Superman. Granted, Goyer had pretty much written himself into a corner on that one, but it was just a resolution that I somehow couldn't suspend my disbelief within the internal logic of the rest of the movie.

Also leveling Metropolis totally sets up for the next movie and I get why they did it and am even kinda looking forward to how it could play out despite my better judgment, but in giving Lex Luthor a leg to stand on about letting a godlike alien just fly around, I still don't really enjoy leaving the theater thinking, "Damn, Superman, you lame."

I thought the neck snap was fine, I mean, it had to be resolved somehow. I'm not into the Superman mythos at all really, but I was glad the movie got away with no Kryptonite at all. That is one of the most annoying plot devices with Superman. With the Zod kill though, I figured, Super Duper Strong vs. Super Duper Strong, it's still possible to kill one another. Zod probably took Superman to a "new level" at that point too, as the movie makes it clear both of them (and Zod much faster) are still tapping into their potential.

Nice Luthor stage set too, damn, I did not think of it that way, but that would be a good way to introduce him. Again, I know little about them, but if this big mega-rich guy shows up rebuilding everyone's homes and so on and is like "Hey y'all I'm the real superhero around here, he's just an alien" that could work as a premise. My fingers are crossed for no Kryptonite bullcrap, though I'm not sure how normal humans would challenge him, it seems to be near universal in all the non-comic exposure I've seen. Clever writing from Goyer... yeesh....


edit: After some reflection, I really didn't care for the 100,000 AD Nanite PowerPoint presentation explaining 90% of Krypton's history in 2 minutes, something about that whole scene came off as rushed (probably the 2 minutes) and a little lame. I guess AI-Jor-El was on short notice though, and just threw something together real quick.

[POS Industries]

but I was glad the movie got away with no Kryptonite at all. That is one of the most annoying plot devices with Superman.
Instead they replaced it with the far stupider "Kryptonian air." Because Superman can survive in space just fine, but he can't hold his breath for a minute to smash a terraforming machine without having an asthma attack.

I'd have rather had kryptonite than a contrived additional weakness that they made up to fill the same purpose that made no sense anyway.

[Bells]

Think about it now, not only that is a half decent stage to set up lex... but that's also a way to bring Batman into the fold without having him taking over the movie (showing up as Bruce Wayne)

I mean, there is a wayne tech satellite in the movie, ok fine. Lex comes around rebuilding the whole city, Wayne industries could just as well be it's direct competitor once Batman knows what Lex's real agenda is.

Also the fact that this Superman is just a super powered farmboy fighting the space military of his homeplanet motivated only by "doing the right thing", so you can still play out from the Guilt and "lessons learned" from what he has done and seen on this movie to justify Superman being the more "Comic Book Superman" that people seem to be waiting for.

it's a nice stage... might not have been set up in the best way possible, but this movie does have interesting possibilities for the long game.

[Azisien]

Instead they replaced it with the far stupider "Kryptonian air." Because Superman can survive in space just fine, but he can't hold his breath for a minute to smash a terraforming machine without having an asthma attack.

I'd have rather had kryptonite than a contrived additional weakness that they made up to fill the same purpose that made no sense anyway.

Great, thanks for convincing me that both are now stupid. Not having fun is awesome. :(

[Lumenskir]

Something I thought of when a Boardwalk Empire commercial came on:

Is there any specific reason why Earth and all its denizens had to be paved over for nuKrypton? Like, instead of Mars or whatever?

In thinking it over, the thing that really annoyed me was how Snyder's shitty directing pretty much took what could have been a great Michael Shannon role and set him to permanent "DOUBLE FUCKING NEWSFLASH" mode.

[POS Industries]

Is there any specific reason why Earth and all its denizens had to be paved over for nuKrypton? Like, instead of Mars or whatever?
Because fuck the El family. That's it. That's the only reason.

[Magus]

I'm fine with Michael Shannon being set to permanent berserker mode, I don't think that was a poor choice on Snyder's fault. Just all that other stuff.

[Azisien]

Is there any specific reason why Earth and all its denizens had to be paved over for nuKrypton? Like, instead of Mars or whatever?

In thinking it over, the thing that really annoyed me was how Snyder's shitty directing pretty much took what could have been a great Michael Shannon role and set him to permanent "DOUBLE FUCKING NEWSFLASH" mode.

I had to laugh about that reason too, because there is none. If you have a super gravitic mega-future terraforming tentacle monster machine, and also FTL capabilities, your colonization options are pretty wide open. I'm not even sure why the Kryptonian empire imploded so completely, except that if they hadn't, the movie would be mostly void and none of the events would have had to happen?

Superman being the Codex or whatever was really the only remaining reason they could want Superman specifically, but needing Earth was a non-thing. But hey, maybe it would take like fifty years to terraform a dead world, versus a month to terraform Earth. Hard to beat those savings! And we're all a little insane at this point after the black hole prison/our world exploding thing. And that might actually be more to the point, because Zod travelled around for years and saw nothing but the death of his once glorious civilization. Enough to drive anyone insane. Then to come find his last living failure (not capturing Supes) on a planet that is full and vibrant with life that Supes loves, well, urge to destroy, rising.

Now plot convenience besides, I thought Zod was a pretty good, if uncomplicated villain. His goals are just pretty diametrically opposed to Superman, and one of them had to die, particularly by the end when all of Zod's hopes and dreams are crushed.

But here's my real gripe against the terraforming. Why, exactly, are they so dead-set on making the atmosphere way harsher and thus eliminating their god-like powers on Earth? Like, seriously, who would do that? If anything, I would start cleaning up Earth's atmosphere to get even more powerful. Then I would go punch Phobos.

[Aerozord]

For most of his run, the idea was Krypton was on the cusp of space travel (they didn't give much thought to the difference between space travel and FTL travel) They certainly could have saved more if they put the effort into their space program which is what Jor-El was trying to do. Since that didn't work he instead focused on a craft able to get a single baby off world, something he could manage.

Ignoring the vast distances of space which they simply didn't consider, that all makes sense. Though if FTL was something they had, hell it doesn't make sense why Krypton was even a big deal since who the hell wouldn't colonize other worlds when you have a freakin FTL drive. Especially with how many planets you'd be god-like on. I dont know about you but if I could get the power of flight and heat vision just by moving, I would.

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Maybe the colony worlds were settled with sub/at light speed sleeper ships, or FTL technology was lost or deliberately abandoned after the beginning of Krypton's decline.

But here's my real gripe against the terraforming. Why, exactly, are they so dead-set on making the atmosphere way harsher and thus eliminating their god-like powers on Earth? Like, seriously, who would do that? If anything, I would start cleaning up Earth's atmosphere to get even more powerful. Then I would go punch Phobos.

Zod is a slave to tradition. He cannot conceive of an existence outside the Krypton he was engineered to preserve, even when change is arguably better.

That, and to fuck over the El family, that too.

[Aerozord]

also possibly just indifference. Take humanity for example. We wouldn't think twice about wiping out several insect colonies to plop down a new house. Go a few centuries in the past.

"whats that natives? This is your land? See thats a problem because I kind of want my town here and see, we have guns." cut to a few years later when said natives are being tossed into mass graves.

For Zod to seek out another planet would mean he thought murdering indigenous life as morally wrong in the first place.

[Azisien]

also possibly just indifference. Take humanity for example. We wouldn't think twice about wiping out several insect colonies to plop down a new house. Go a few centuries in the past.

"whats that natives? This is your land? See thats a problem because I kind of want my town here and see, we have guns." cut to a few years later when said natives are being tossed into mass graves.

For Zod to seek out another planet would mean he thought murdering indigenous life as morally wrong in the first place.

You're probably right.

I just watched Superman II for the first time, having never seen it as a child. Man, what a terrifyingly awful piece of shit movie. I could see myself liking it, but only if I was 7, the same way I thought the Power Rangers Movie was the greatest achievement of humankind at that age. Superman is practically giggling when he kills Zod in that one. It's actually a comedy scene.

On the other hand, I stumbled upon this trailer of Man of Steel:

NlOF03DUoWc&list=FL3gcRCMKrW1OfjtVIAW_j_A&index=1

And it is such a misleading trailer thematically. Now I want to see Man of Steel remade with some horror elements. Now that's a fresh spin on Superman.