What's up with Youtube and the Copyright wars?

[Aldurin]

So I've been trying to follow what's been going on very recently with Youtube's copyright management system going tits-up against gaming videos, but I haven't found any details on what actually started this iteration of the debacle. Are more companies pulling a Nintendo, or are random people calling copyright claims on videos from a library computer for shits and giggles?

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To give you an idea how well this recent change is received.

[Aerozord]

I think its probably their automated system is more aggressive. I had one of my videos taken down within literal minutes of me uploading it. I doubt even one person saw that thing

[Bells]

It's the corner of the abyss.

Essentially this si the crux of what happened... Youtube is trying to change it's rules as to accomodate better the huge boom of gaming channels. In as such, it is coming down harder on Networks.

From Polygon: "We recently enabled Content ID scanning on channels identified as affiliates of MCNs [Multi Channel Networks]," a YouTube spokesperson told Polygon. "This has resulted in new copyright claims for some users, based on policies set by the relevant content owners."

Essentially, there is so many Youtube channels for games now, and so many for Networks, which were semi-protected, that youtube was loosing the grip of control over Ad revenue and legit claims... so they did this.

Problem is two fold...

1- Many companies (one example: Ubisoft) have made NO claims. And even have gone public to state that they will not and don't want to do any Flag Claims... even for monetized content. Yet, Youtube's automatic system did for them.

2- The system is bugged. And many claims are being made towards Youtubers and associating their content to companies that are NOT the actually owners of the rights of certain audio or video content...

So you end up with a lot of youtubers who pay their bills with this stuff being unable to make revenue from their work by companies that don't have the actual right to stop them and even from content by companies that support what they do.

Needless to say... the pro youtubers are pissed.

For people like me with tiny and young channels, this is not a big deal... simply because the tide hasn't hit my front door yet... i had no flags on my 96 videos. but people who post daily and have over 1000 are reporting up to 300 flags, which is a bitch.


Youtube also added a feature that allows you to request removal from your network if you wish. And the network has to respond... supposedly this is a combined effort to "level" the playing field for gameplay channels by cutting out the larger masses of people that are clutterig the system right now in a way that only people who actually work with this stuff in a serious manner may survive...

Problem is... it's not working. nobody knows what final form this will take, and this leaves the future of gameplays and let's plays (monetize or otherwise) with a huge question mark above it.

For me for example, i don't pay my bills with my Youtube channel. it's a hobby... but even i managed to nab a few contacts and even a couple of companies to support this. I would love to go pro with this stuff i just can't right now... and these changes on youtube might make it easier for good contet creators to grow and show up on the long run... or everybody crashes and burns.

So i'm posting Indie stuff and live action sketches until then...

[Aldurin]

Well that sucks, the whole point of being part of a network was to avoid copyright claims and to simplify authorizing more content.

If this goes under, we might see a resurgence of entertainment being primarily hosted off-site with self-dependent software structure similar to Roosterteeth and the now-dead Normal Boots. At the very least Twitch is going to be far more attractive to livecomm gamers when held against this shitstorm.

[Bells]

That's for sure. You can already find people praying for Twtich to be more friendly towards "non live" content...

And the Networks are also pretty pissed simply because they were not told anything or warned in advance about any of this. It just happened... Machinima for instance, had a daily barrage of "guys don't panic we're on it" on twitter, because it was one of the most affected by this... but so far no official stance or solution was sent to the partners.

[Loyal]

Needless to say... the pro youtubers are pissed.

For people like me with tiny and young channels, this is not a big deal... simply because the tide hasn't hit my front door yet... i had no flags on my 96 videos. but people who post daily and have over 1000 are reporting up to 300 flags, which is a bitch.

Oh yes indeed. (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQfHdasuWtI)

I seriously hope this leads to some other system rising to prominence, but at this point the Youtube behemoth is running on simple inertia; people continue to use it because it's already there, and useful, and moving off-site would be difficult and time consuming. I doubt Youtube is ever going to get better unless there's an actual, mass exodus from the site which forces them to acknowledge that there is a problem.

Twitch is cool, but I'm hoping for something smaller to rise so that there's actual competition.

[Bells]

Loyal, your link is broken. By any chance was this one? Cause this is a good one...

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The problem is that there is no system that can be birth right now that would rival Youtube without being slaughter by lawsuit from game developers who don't want their content there or Networks that don't want to deal with a new system...

Even if you think of something like "Oooh a network of reviewers fueled by donations, like wikipedia!" it still falls on the same pit...

Irony is the word of the day though, since PewDiePie is in Youtube's rewind 2013 video and HE is likely to be affected by this (but wont...) and i think he was the only Gamer Youtuber on that video at all...

I mean, if i had a dream scenario to put on the table? Youtube will split. There will be a "Gametube" or something of the sort in 2014 with it's own set of rules and geared 100% towards gaming content. And the original Youtube will remain for everything else.

[Aldurin]

Maybe Valve will announce Steam Video, changing the world forever.

[Bells]

Steam Stream Machine?

Steam Network?

If you publish a game on Steam you have to Opt in or Out of allowing monetize gameplay on the selling page of the game?

Holy hell i would opt for that...

[Aerozord]

Maybe what we need is a new start-up. One dedicated to lets plays and other gamer content. Tempted to do it myself but not sure if I have enough clout to raise money, plus its hard to find help in the technical fields

[Bells]

The problem is that any platform that dedicates itself to hosting gameplay or game trailers will have to sort out some form of legal common ground with the publishers... that's when things get tricky. Cause Google has the balls to walk into a negotiation room for that stuff and dictate stuff... but who else has this kind of sway?

What sucks is that a TON of what youtube is was built on top of these guys... not only that, let's players and independent game reviews, journalists, commentators and even enthusiasts had major impact in the industry in the last decade... you can't just shit on that.

[Aerozord]

The problem is that any platform that dedicates itself to hosting gameplay or game trailers will have to sort out some form of legal common ground with the publishers... that's when things get tricky. Cause Google has the balls to walk into a negotiation room for that stuff and dictate stuff... but who else has this kind of sway?

Google doesn't, or atleast they aren't making use of it. Maybe its coincidence but since google has taken over they seem to be making more and more effort to appease them. To a degree you can hardball them.

I think the best solution is to literally make a federal case of this and see if the supreme court rules that its protected under freedom of speech. While this wont solve things globally the US market makes up a huge chunk of revenue for all involved so it will pressure others to follow suit. Admittedly this also runs the risk of them ruling against it and then what little ground people have will be gone. Though unless something extreme like that is done it will slowly degrade

What I really mean with the idea of a new outlet for gaming is to encourage that mass exodus. If enough people focus on this Google will push harder to protect its content providers. Obviously nothing can rival youtube, but if you can atleast appear as something that threatens one of their main revenue streams they will do something.

[rpgdemon]

I'm a little surprised that none of the companies who AREN'T filing claims, but are having content removed against their will are suing Youtube for defamation, and for opening them up to lawsuits about the removed content. Especially considering some content has been removed that was in fact IP of the uploader. In a situation like that, the uploader has to take action against the company who "filed a complaint", or risk losing the IP.

[Aerozord]

I'm a little surprised that none of the companies who AREN'T filing claims, but are having content removed against their will are suing Youtube for defamation, and for opening them up to lawsuits about the removed content. Especially considering some content has been removed that was in fact IP of the uploader. In a situation like that, the uploader has to take action against the company who "filed a complaint", or risk losing the IP.

I'm guessing fear. I looked into challenging the claim against my stuff and found some fine print, which basically said that if you are found to falsely challenge a claim your entire account could be deleted. Considering this is primarily an automated system I imagine few uploaders are willing to risk absolutely everything to try and win over an international corporation.

Google thinks nothing of companies and users tossing out false accusations of copyright infringement, but they come down hard on uploaders trying to protect their own IP

[rpgdemon]

I'm guessing fear. I looked into challenging the claim against my stuff and found some fine print, which basically said that if you are found to falsely challenge a claim your entire account could be deleted. Considering this is primarily an automated system I imagine few uploaders are willing to risk absolutely everything to try and win over an international corporation.

Google thinks nothing of companies and users tossing out false accusations of copyright infringement, but they come down hard on uploaders trying to protect their own IP

I mean, why aren't the companies who DON'T want videos being taken down, and who are not making any such claims, press against Youtube with legal action? It's defamation against the company which is supposedly making the claims, forces them to deal with the claims, and opens them up to potential lawsuits from the users, as outlined above.

[Aerozord]

I mean, why aren't the companies who DON'T want videos being taken down, and who are not making any such claims, press against Youtube with legal action? It's defamation against the company which is supposedly making the claims, forces them to deal with the claims, and opens them up to potential lawsuits from the users, as outlined above.

Because the companies have no legal claim over what was taken down. The companies that support these works make the legal argument that the content the uploader creates is their own and are free to upload it and profit from it.

Plus pressing legal action against google is gonna cost them. They wont do that so other people can make money. While one can argue that these videos act as free advertisement few companies have enough faith in that argument to risk a legal battle not only against google but also the companies that dont want to risk legal rulings that would weaken their own claims.

It would be a high risk low reward situation.

[Doc ock rokc]

Also the entire thing is misrepresenting them. They probably didn't think the automated system would do things like this and/or thought that it would be smart enough to figure out fair use or parody.

Then there is the opposite. the people who HAVE to make claims on their own customers because other companies were trying to. making them have to go through and contact each one individually to get them out of flagging people.

[akaSM]

Eh, I'm not sure about that, we're talking about the same company that won't let you comment on videos because of how awesome Google + is and, how much you need it because of REASONS.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

Eh, I'm not sure about that, we're talking about the same company that won't let you comment on videos because of how awesome Google + is and, how much you need it because of REASONS.

I think that's more Google's fault then Youtube's. Since google owns that site now.

[Aerozord]

Youtube wasn't great before (seriously a three strike system?) but it was better before Google got their hands on it. Now that might not be google, its possible this was the road they were going down. But clearly google doesn't really care about uploaders unless said uploader generates alot of income for them. In other words big names will likely get a free pass while smaller users will get shafted. The only way google will actually make an effort to reform youtube is if, say, pewdiepie was being threatened they may do something. Most likely that wont happen as right now by letting a few people go companies can attack most users with impunity. If they did attack users google cares about keeping they might push back.

Keep in mind I'm just guessing. All the LPs I watch are either part of networks, focus on indie games, or broadcast on blip so I dont notice much direct action. Though I did hear Two Best Friends had a close call before and VGA was outright removed for awhile, but nothing that would worry google

[Aerozord]

So Movie Bob (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/the-big-picture/8592-Copywrong) brings up a point I didn't consider. Yes how this hurts content makers is a problem, but there is another one. Since its the copyright owners that get to say yay or nay on who gets targeted.

This adds the danger of companies using this to stifle specific critics of their work. It can be used as a tool of censorship that cuts down the the very core of free speech