God Bless You, Bill Cosby

[KhanFusion]

Discuss (http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38565)

[Hamelin]

The best part is that the NAACP can't call Racist on Cosby.

[Sithdarth]

Its about time for minorities to realise that not everything is th fault of "whitey." That view is just as bad as the sterotypes some of us no minorities have about minorities. You can't stand there complaining about racism and sterotypes while in the same breath your accusing a whole race of people of particapating in an act. The majority of whites no longer care about race, or don't let it show. Its just that the ones you hear about most are the ones who are racist. To judge a whole race on the actions of a few is exactly what they are condemning us of and exactly what they are doing. Also, they have to take responsiblity for some of the bad things that happen. If "whitey" really wanted to keep minorities on there "place" there wouldn't be any black people with wealth or power. Need evidence? Just look at the events right after the civil war. Are you telling me that minorities back then were somehow less able than minorities today? So in other words take some of the blame and quite complaining and do something.

[Toastburner B]

Yay! It's always good to see someone stand up to the NAACP.

Yeah, I know...sounds racist, but I've had an experience with them that wasn't good at all.

In Jr. High School (grades 7-9, about 12-15 year olds), someone changed the letters around on our school marque and created a racial slur.

In comes the NAACP, proclaiming that we are a gang school with racial problems. They hold press confernces and all that jazz. Made the news and everything.

It turns out it was some 20something year old who stood on the roof of his truck to reach the letters.

I took it kinda personally because I was the Student Body President at the time. I don't like people who have never even heard of this school before, but know for a fact its a gang school with racial problems.

</rant>

[MP37a]

Way to go Bill! I agree with all of what he said.

[Jagos]

I love Bill...

I'm so glad someone has common sense and is respected

[Bob The Mercenary]

He kind of reminds me of my grandpa, in a non-black kind of way. He agrees with everything Bill said, only he can't come out with it or he'll be called a racist.

Way to go, Cos! :D

[Forever Zero]

He is a great comedian and a great man! Go Cosbey, sock it to the NAACP!

[Martyr]

I said this on MT Forums and I'll say it now.

Not a bit of this is new or original or unknown. I pray for Bill Cosby's career.

Everybody seems to forget that this is obvious information, and, if anybody wanted to act on it, they would have already.
I'm not going to give a crap until I see something change.

[h4x.m4g3]

Hey I'm black and proud. 1/2 black but still
No I'm not going to be the black guy who blames everything on "whitey." Its not the fault of "the man" that some black people are the way they are. In some cases the racist allegations are true, but that doesn't mean everytime something goes wrong minorities can blame "whitey." If anything in today's society blacks are becoming the racist (in my community at least). If a black guy goes out with a girl that happens to be white all of a sudden he's going out with that "white skank". And if a guy who happens to be white starts listening to hippety-hoppity or slurring their speach he's "acting black."

On a side note I'm extremely smart (smarter then all the "whiteys" at my school, [I'm in a magnet school]) i'm not poor, I don't buy $500 shoes, If anything I am the Computer Geek, not the hippety hoppity black guy.

the point is you can't blame things on race, only yourself, unles you happen to be in the pressence of an actual racist, but that's gotta be what 20% of any claims based on race. You can only blame yourself, and in some cases your upbringing.

[Martyr]

Hey I'm black and proud. 1/2 black but still
No I'm not going to be the black guy who blames everything on "whitey." Its not the fault of "the man" that some black people are the way they are. In some cases the racist allegations are true, but that doesn't mean everytime something goes wrong minorities can blame "whitey." If anything in today's society blacks are becoming the racist (in my community at least). If a black guy goes out with a girl that happens to be white all of a sudden he's going out with that "white skank". And if a guy who happens to be white starts listening to hippety-hoppity or slurring their speach he's "acting black."

On a side note I'm extremely smart (smarter then all the "whiteys" at my school, [I'm in a magnet school]) i'm not poor, I don't buy $500 shoes, If anything I am the Computer Geek, not the hippety hoppity black guy.

the point is you can't blame things on race, only yourself, unles you happen to be in the pressence of an actual racist, but that's gotta be what 20% of any claims based on race. You can only blame yourself, and in some cases your upbringing.

Do they call you a traitorous black gone white?
Where I come from, that's what happens to all the black people who break the mold and go for that lifestyle where pants wrap around the waist and average GPA scores exceed 1.9.
Or are you just "ghetto fabulous."

Edit: I'm deleting all that crap. I don't even think it properly represents my side. Mixed up words, for sure. I'll get into a fight that I don't even understand why I'm in if I leave that stuff there...

[h4x.m4g3]

Not really I just don't hang around them. Don't get me wrong I don't avoid black people, but let's just say I have more white friends then black friends. Rae doesn't matter to me just personality, and I can't stand their "black personality."

[Lycanthrope]

Its the same deal here. I'm white. I have black friends, but just can't stand people being loud and "ghetto." And it isn't even that all of my black friends are complete conformist "oreos," they just people I can have an intellegent conversation with. Same goes for white people to, and latinos, and anything else. Its not about race, its about intellegence, and it often saddens me that so many minorities dumb themselves down by buying into stereotypes.

[Fifthfiend]

Mostly it just reads like the standard Old Man Rant. "Damn kids today and their clothes being too baggy/too tight/ of ideal tightness/looseness but in the wrong color. When I was their age we had respect for our parents/spoke proper english/worked harder for less money/walked a suitably long-sounding distance to school. When are these kids going to stop arguing with their elders/enjoying sex/going around being all young?"

He's black, so he's bitching about black kids, seems like about the only difference to me.

[Martyr]

Mostly it just reads like the standard Old Man Rant. "Damn kids today and their clothes being too baggy/too tight/ of ideal tightness/looseness but in the wrong color. When I was their age we had respect for our parents/spoke proper english/worked harder for less money/walked a suitably long-sounding distance to school. When are these kids going to stop arguing with their elders/enjoying sex/going around being all young?"

He's black, so he's bitching about black kids, seems like about the only difference to me.

Yea, but... Why are people 70 years younger than 80 having the same complaints?

[Jagos]

i'm not poor, I don't buy $500 shoes, If anything I am the Computer Geek, not the hippety hoppity black guy.

Don't confuse common sense with stupidity. All those shoes cost about $20 bucks to make. The main thing you're "buying" is not only an image but for some kids in China or elsewhere to have it made and shipped to the US.

And I know that not all blacks, whites, Asians, nor any other race is filled with every last person that falls into a category.

Still, I'm kinda glad to see that there's other people that don't fall into traps that plague so many. No matter the skin color.

[cellar_door]

just out of interest, how do you think this would have been recieved if it was robin williams saying it?

i mean its all good and common sence stuff, but do you think it would be swamped down by the racist thing? or would people see it for what it really is?

[Omega Mage Zero]

It's great that Cosby said this, but it's not a new thing for a black man to say. Check out a guy called Thomas Sewell.

On a personal note, I'd like to say that I work in a elementary school. It's about 50% black, 40% some odd white, with a few Latino and Asian children thrown in. And there are some deep problems in African-American culture and families. An even bigger problem is that everyone,black and white, is scared to call them on it. This may be changing now. The Latinos(or hispanics, whatever is appropriate) are the largest minority now. When they surpass blacks(and they will) perhaps the African-American "community" will run out of excuses. Why will the Latinos succeed? Strong families and a good work ethic. It's really as simple as that.

[h4x.m4g3]

Don't confuse common sense with stupidity. All those shoes cost about $20 bucks to make. The main thing you're "buying" is not only an image but for some kids in China or elsewhere to have it made and shipped to the US.

I was trying to say I prefer my $20 Walmart shoes and a good computer over an pentium two and these OM!FG!!! it has some company's symbol on the side of it shoes for only ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS!

[Martyr]

I was trying to say I prefer my $20 Walmart shoes and a good computer over an pentium two and these OM!FG!!! it has some company's symbol on the side of it shoes for only ONE HUNDRED BILLION DOLLARS!

Not to mention, it's a combination of orange, red, and blue colors, and it's made of styrofoam.

You know what kicks ass? Those shoes are so popular, that I can get more durable, nicer looking shoes now for a much lower price. I got some nice shoes the other day for only $20.00. Stuff that cost me $45.00 a few years ago.

[Josey]

Well a good deal of the current situation might due to thuggish slang throwing rappers and badly behaved athletes being held up as the ideal black men in popular culture. When you have a culture where extremely high illegitimacy rates have wrecked havoc over the last half century the young men (and young women) pretty much have just these commercial figures to look up to as male role models. Of course, you can see this in large numbers of white kids too who are from similar situations, though there tends to be a lot more commercial variety in figures for the white kids to look up to.

[Lockeownzj00]

That was pretty lame of cosby. He's one of those rigid americans who thinks you have to be an eloquent doctor to be acceptable in his clique. Apparently, if you weren't in English J^, you clearly can not have any sort of valid viewpoint.

While I'm not too much of a fan of the quote unquote "ghetto" scene, I do think the mindset that many people have is still racist. As long as they "break the mold" I'm ok with them. I remember the Steve Biko movie I saw again, where the "liberal" white author is shown the error of his ways by the blacks, who say, "no, you do not want us to be liberated. You will feel you have freed us when we act like you. When we use forks and knives and dress in suits and ties." (paraphrasing here)

I am clearly not saying black culture = ghetto, but just like white culture has its staple concepts, so does black culture. What is wrong with that? If someone directly from china didn't use chop sticks, would you happy for them for "breaking the mold?"

I'm just saying, what if it is an entire culture? People seem to think that blacks grow up "inherently" "normal" until they are given a path and are "corrupted."

[h4x.m4g3]

That was pretty lame of cosby. He's one of those rigid americans who thinks you have to be an eloquent doctor to be acceptable in his clique. Apparently, if you weren't in English J^, you clearly can not have any sort of valid viewpoint.

While I'm not too much of a fan of the quote unquote "ghetto" scene, I do think the mindset that many people have is still racist. As long as they "break the mold" I'm ok with them. I remember the Steve Biko movie I saw again, where the "liberal" white author is shown the error of his ways by the blacks, who say, "no, you do not want us to be liberated. You will feel you have freed us when we act like you. When we use forks and knives and dress in suits and ties." (paraphrasing here)

I am clearly not saying black culture = ghetto, but just like white culture has its staple concepts, so does black culture. What is wrong with that? If someone directly from china didn't use chop sticks, would you happy for them for "breaking the mold?"

I'm just saying, what if it is an entire culture? People seem to think that blacks grow up "inherently" "normal" until they are given a path and are "corrupted."

I think you misunderstood the point of this thread. The point is not wether African-Americans have the right to be "Ghetto", but rather that the Black Community needs to stop blaming "whitey" for its problems. If African-Americans are going to act Ghetto go for it, but don't blame "The White Man" when they can't get a job because they chose to act "Ghetto" and skip school, hang out on the streets all day, and as such they can barely read. It's not whether they (we) have the right to act like we do, but wether we (they) have the right to blame others for the way we/they act.

[Lockeownzj00]

Well, in all fairness I must make my rebuttal by saying:

If Caucasians are going to act nerdy go for it, but don't blame "The Black Man" when they can't get a job because they lived in their parents' basement using irc, hang out in the dark all day, and can barely lift a book. It's not whether we have the right to act like we do, it's whether they can improve themselves to meet my standards.

[Josey]

If African-Americans are going to act Ghetto go for it, but don't blame "The White Man" when they can't get a job because they chose to act "Ghetto" and skip school, hang out on the streets all day, and as such they can barely read..

Like my previous post, I think it might be because the popular and often romanticized vision of a black person in the media today. Everyone wants to see either the a) lecherous entertainer surrounded by loose women or b) the black man struggling against the white world. You do have black lawyers and doctors on the casts of several largely white shows, but they don't seem to be able to pull in the viewers as central characters. I think that a concious change in cultural priorities would have to change before everyone can move on.

[Martyr]

I'm rethinking this...

[Illuminatus]

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm all for the "mixed but different" view of cultural mixing. I want minorities in America to maintain their individuality. Mainly because American culture sucks. But the thing is...this whole ghetto culture sucks too. IMPORTANT NOTE: There are whites, asians, latinos and native americans in the "ghetto culture:. This is not an assault on blacks.

The ghetto culture is BAD. First, I can't understand a damn thing ghetto kids say. Second, the culture encourages selfishness and ruthlessness. Third, the entire goal of the ghetto culture is to get filthy rich and get a bunch of "ice, rides and hoes". Fourth, rap sucks. There's no talent involved, I can talk loudly and curse while using a synthesizer and emulate perfectly the most popular rap/hip-hop moguls. They're selling an image, not music.

I don't really think that was on topic, but I'm angry and I needed to say it. Bill Cosby was right, and I don't think that anyone should be criticising him for what he said. He wants black kids, not to BECOME white, but maintain their individuality while competing effectively. As he said, this cannot be done when you use phrases like "Where you at?" and "Why you ain't?"

[Lockeownzj00]

IMPORTANT NOTE: There are whites, asians, latinos and native americans in the "ghetto culture:

True. So far.

The ghetto culture is BAD. First, I can't understand a damn thing ghetto kids say.

Hmm, you can't understand a thing they say. Funny, because I have a feeling you're exaggerating. Furthermore, if no one could understand them, they'd be dead as they would not be able to even buy food from the supermarket. The language is like any colloquial slang. It is simply more exemplified.

Second, the culture encourages selfishness and ruthlessness. Third, the entire goal of the ghetto culture is to get filthy rich and get a bunch of "ice, rides and hoes".

It does? Just because Puff Daddy wears a lot of jewelry, doesn't mean the rest are like that too. The ghetto culture is more about being raw and tough. While I don't think that's cool, it's just as valid as being an "intelligent" emo listener.

Fourth, rap sucks. There's no talent involved, I can talk loudly and curse while using a synthesizer and emulate perfectly the most popular rap/hip-hop moguls. They're selling an image, not music.

I used to think like you. Then I realized I was thinking in the 13-year old mindset. Music is music. Stop waging wars on other music to defend what's "right." Rap is as normal as metal or ska or idm or noise (the genre, not the noun). I often hear this argument. Alright--so rap is just people cursing with a synthesizer. Then metal is just people singing while ramming a guitar. And ska is just people wiggling their hands on the guitar. IDM is just people making sounds. Jazz is just people plucking the right notes that happen to make a song. I realized a while ago that people judge how valid a music form based on how hard it is to learn it. Think about art. You don't need to be fucking Goya to be an artist. Music is the same way. If it's good, it's fine. You don't think it's good? Congrats. Don't try to invalidate it, fucker.

Note: I do not listen to rap.

I don't really think that was on topic, but I'm angry and I needed to say it. Bill Cosby was right, and I don't think that anyone should be criticising him for what he said. He wants black kids, not to BECOME white, but maintain their individuality while competing effectively. As he said, this cannot be done when you use phrases like "Where you at?" and "Why you ain't?"

They are maintaining their individuality. Just like New Found Glory is a punk's nightmare, Puff Daddy and J-Z or whatever his name is are a rapper/ghetto's nightmare. They misrepresent the people. Ghetto is not just all bling bling. While I do have pet peeves I've decided to relax my thoughts on language. Why did I ever think otherwise? Language is constantly changing. You can't make it perfect. While of course you have to saty within reasonable bounds, the only reason I correct people nowadays is not because of how "wrong" it is, it's because it's just a little pet peeve. Slang is a wonderful, constantly evolving thing, and just because you want to be a little "perfect" English scholar, doesn't mean they want to be. You don't think people in the 1600s were thinking the same thing? History repeats itself, my friend. People then were saying how corrupted the language was getting and they're saying it now, too. You can't make language a thing set in stone. It's impossible.

I think there is a very pertenent quote by Jimmy Urine of Mindless Self Indulgence that I could use here:

It is whatever we feel is going to entertain us. I don't like guys who sit there and do nothing, it is boring. I really don't give a s*** if somebody is playing well or not, it is if you are entertaining or not. I hate musicians, we all really hate musicians so it is like, if the guy is going to eat his guitar, I think that he is a much better guitarist than if he is doing an E minor 7th chord or something. It really is whatever is going to entertain us. If Steve wants to go with his little wireless system and go up to a balcony and throw a chair at me, that is fine and that is fun. If I decide I am going to drink my piss that night then that is fun and if Steve wants to join me he can. It is pretty much whatever is going to entertain us and we do try to piss people off all the time.

In another interview he goes on to say how music wars are stupid and that's why they're breaking boundaries and doing whatever the hell they want. That's open-minded, right there.

[Jagos]

Third, the entire goal of the ghetto culture is to get filthy rich and get a bunch of "ice, rides and hoes". Fourth, rap sucks. There's no talent involved, I can talk loudly and curse while using a synthesizer and emulate perfectly the most popular rap/hip-hop moguls.

Look into a group called the Jurassic Five. Had a song on Jet Set (Grind) Radio that wasn't all about cursing or anything else of that nature.

Look into MC Chris who's a "white guy" rapping about Boba's Fette. Fave song of mine.

While I listen to more of a remixing of game songs, I do like specific artists. Their style of music doesn't matter. Yes, I'm particular to jazz beats myself. But saying that people need to rhyme one way or another (which is basically the difference in how rap and punk sound so different) without trying it out is kinda...

Yeah...

[h4x.m4g3]

Look into a group called the Jurassic Five. Had a song on Jet Set (Grind) Radio that wasn't all about cursing or anything else of that nature.
Ahh yes Jurrasic 5 there Rap is awesome Rap I can actually stomach "together we'll show you how to improvise."I think I need to make one last comment Ghetto can do whatever Ghetto wants to do just don't blame anyone else. They choose the lifestyle they can live with it. They deserve to be judged on the same scale as everybody else. How many times have you seen when a black person gets arrested some old black woman always says "Why you putting another innocent Black Man in Jail, you're just continueing the cycle" Lets see how they think when that "Innocent Black Man" robs them at gunpoint. Whatever they do a crime they go to jail, we commit a crime we go to jail, all men are created equal.

[Fifthfiend]

Locke -- I was with you on the open-mindedness in entertainment right up to the bit about waxing philosophic on the act of drinking urine from a man who, in fact, calls himself Jimmy Urine. That's pretty much where I draw the line on open-mindedness right there.

[Lycanthrope]

I am open minded, but I am also an intellectualist. The rule for slang, in my belief, is the same rule for art: know the rules before you break them. If you choose to talk one way, fine, be my guest. But be capable of speaking properly. I just see far too much connection between the people who always talk in ebonix and the people who constantly cut class, then don't go to college and get themselves stuck in a low-wage job for the rest of their life.

[Lockeownzj00]

Err, actually, he doesn't drink his piss...that was an example. He does weird things on stage, like pull out his...thing and then light himself on fire. Yeah.

If you read an entire interview, you would see they are smart people who just like to push your buttons. A lot of their songs are made to confuse and to get people angry, but not in the personal way (they don't scream "fuck god" or anything to instigate stuff). They just don't care what people think because they want to bring originality to anything and everything.

Yeah.

Ebonics? I thought that term was extinct.

I'm going to have to disagree. It's all or nothing here, man. If that's the way they talk, that's the way they talk. There are just as many eloquent assholes as there are street ones. cough tom clancy.

[Lycanthrope]

Suffice to say I disagree respectfully. I'm not making this an issue about "assholes." I'm talking about being able to communicate. Face it: how you speak lables you, more than gender, race, sexuality, or anything. The english language, like any language is one where in there is a vast degree of expressive quality, in some ways more than most languages. And speaking in slang, and only in slang, reguardless of the circumstance, is not, as you put it eloquent. To be eloquent is to be able to efficiently speak ones mind, and there are situations.

It is not all or nothing. I know people who speak in slang amongst friends but who can then sit down and write a lengthy, eloquent essay.

Allow me to put this another way. Who do you respect most on this forum? Chances are, it is someone who writes properly and has a mastery over the language. And now, how much to you respect someone who consistently uses leet-speech, garbles up their gramar, and neglects punctuation.

Its the same issue.

[Mashirosen]

Face it: how you speak lables you, more than gender, race, sexuality, or anything. The english language, like any language is one where in there is a vast degree of expressive quality, in some ways more than most languages. And speaking in slang, and only in slang, reguardless of the circumstance, is not, as you put it eloquent. To be eloquent is to be able to efficiently speak ones mind, and there are situations.

It is not all or nothing. I know people who speak in slang amongst friends but who can then sit down and write a lengthy, eloquent essay.

Allow me to put this another way. Who do you respect most on this forum? Chances are, it is someone who writes properly and has a mastery over the language. And now, how much to you respect someone who consistently uses leet-speech, garbles up their gramar, and neglects punctuation.

Its the same issue.


You mean like that?

Seriously, I'm about ready to start checking up on the quality of language used by each and every one of you guys who pulls this kind of grammatical dick-waving. Nitpicking other people's usage is the new lazy man's intellectual trump card. The sad thing is that to some degree I'm in agreement -- whether it's fair or not, proper usage of standard English is viewed in this country as a mark of superiority, and underprivileged people interested in movin' on up ignore this fact to their own detriment -- but you're not exactly making a sterling example of yourselves.

Some people have criticized what Bill Cosby said because they're concerned that, like Chris Rock, he's giving the relatively uninformed enough ammunition to imagine themselves perceptive critics of the black American experience. I'm beginning to see their point.

[AndyBloodredMage]

Locke, about what you said how a language is impossible to set in stone...
Sanscrit, a language existing a long time ago, stayed virtually unchanged for nearly a millenia. It would've stayed that way longer, but they got conquered. Impossible, huh?

[Fifthfiend]

grammatical dick-waving.

I think we've found our new line for the day.

Err, actually, he doesn't drink his piss...that was an example.

Example, shmexample, that's just not right.

[Lycanthrope]

You mean like that?

Seriously, I'm about ready to start checking up on the quality of language used by each and every one of you guys who pulls this kind of grammatical dick-waving. Nitpicking other people's usage is the new lazy man's intellectual trump card. The sad thing is that to some degree I'm in agreement -- whether it's fair or not, proper usage of standard English is viewed in this country as a mark of superiority, and underprivileged people interested in movin' on up ignore this fact to their own detriment -- but you're not exactly making a sterling example of yourselves.

Some people have criticized what Bill Cosby said because they're concerned that, like Chris Rock, he's giving the relatively uninformed enough ammunition to imagine themselves perceptive critics of the black American experience. I'm beginning to see their point.

I never claim to be perfect. And no, that's not exactly what I meant. Spelling and minor punctuation errors are not my top concern when posting, however, you must realize the difference between that and "1 4m teh l33t m4st3r 1 pwns j00 s0 1 4m teh r1t3," which is what I was really getting at (or close enough). I write as I speak, and since things like spelling and apostrophe's don't occur to me when speaking they don't occur to me when writing. Usually. I'd be more likely to check for such things in a term paper, of course, but... well, you get the idea.

[Illuminatus]

Locke, you have some very valid points, and I'm sorry I didn't make myself clear enough. There are exceptions to every rule, for example, I've very much enjoyed several underground rappers, and if they were the norm, instead of underground, I would have no complaints about rap.

Furthermore, until I graduated, I went to a school that was predominantly a minority school. I'm not basing my assumptions about ghetto culture on Puff Daddy's songs, I'm basing it on real life experiences, where people talk so fast or bizzarely that I'm completely lost. There are white black hispanic and asian kids who all perpetuate EXACTLY what I said about the ghetto culture. They were always inconsiderate to me, each other, teachers, and any one else who happened to disagree with them. I spent a good deal of time talking to many of them and could not identify any driving force behind their lives, not ambition, or hope, or achievement, just benjamins and bling bling.

I try not to make statements based on speculation. This one is not.

Oh and Mashirosen, I'm sorry about my "grammatical dick-waving".

Plus, you're very right about, well, rich suburban white folks coming out of the woodwork to criticise black people. While I like what Cosby said, it had as much negative impact as positive.

[Royalspork]

did you know that NAACP is sueing my school system and go cosby

[h4x.m4g3]

did you know that NAACP is sueing my school system and go cosby
Why are they sueing?

[Royalspork]

for not being intragated enough, I guess.

[AndyBloodredMage]

High, care to elaborate? And do you live in chapel hill? I used to live there, Chapel Hill NC, that is.

[Royalspork]

A)don't know about it enough
B)read the location

[AndyBloodredMage]

I did read the location, but there could be more than one chapel hill in existence.