"Rapists Set On Fire In Revenge" or "I Have A Hard Time Sympathizing With Rapists"

[Seil]

Thought that this could go in the Picture thread, but we haven't had a big polarizing discussion for a while. (Or at least that I can remember.) I saw this on Facebook today:

http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u59/Poetisch/1531902_696885980344861_1845608759_n_zps9d1a3964.j pg

Which obviously mocks what several politicians say about rape and rape victims. Rape doesn't seem to be a crime that's high on the political radar, seeing as how Detroit is under fire for not testing thousands of rape kits. (http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/05/18777133-more-than-10000-forgotten-detroit-rape-kits-to-be-tested?lite) While vigilante justice is usually wrong (and pretty brutal) outside of comic books, I always try to fact check the images I see online, found out that setting fire to rapists has happened more than once.

Spain (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/spain/1492839/Mother-sets-fire-to-her-daughters-gloating-rapist.html)
India (http://theurbandaily.com/2013/09/10/rapist-killed-fire/)
India again (http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-news/patna/bihar-woman-avenges-crime-burns-down-rapist/article1-1036745.aspx)

And while I realize that burning someone alive in an act of revenge is probably not the best way to go about it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zU3U-9B3fE), why do I sympathize more with the victim than the rapist?

[Satan's Onion]

...
And while I realize that burning someone alive in an act of revenge is probably not the best way to go about it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2zU3U-9B3fE), why do I sympathize more with the victim than the rapist?

I understand the conflict. My head tells me that no matter how repellent and horrific the crime, base vengeance is worse than useless in an allegedly civilized society. My gut says this:

P3ALwKeSEYs

On the bright side, this has brought us the phrase "kindling cuddling", which is perfect and priceless and makes me cackle like an idiot.

[Hatake Kakashi]

I would advocate...

I....

Nope.

Fuck the rapists. I award the arsonists and these folks who provided us with this color commentary one internet.

[Aldurin]

Rapists don't get automatically neutered upon conviction, so something needs to happen.

[Amake]

Maybe if enough rapists are set on fire we'll see some sort of sex education reform where more people understand what rape is and why they shouldn't do it, and some legal reform where more than one in thirty rapists face some kind of consequences for raping.

Yeah, as long as rape remains essentially a moral and legal grey white area , I expect people will deal with rapists any way hey have to. Yes, I'm strongly in favor of vigilantism in this instance. I've always said you should be prepared to go to prison if you want to do what you think is right.

The only question here I think is "Should this vigilante go to prison?" And the answer is, of course she shouldn't. She shouldn't have been put in a position where setting a person on fire was the most appealing choice available to her to begin with. The world is obviously wrong. If we wanted to put it right, this would be as good a place to start as any.

[Red Mage Black]

Maybe if enough rapists are set on fire we'll see some sort of sex education reform where more people understand what rape is and why they shouldn't do it, and some legal reform where more than one in thirty rapists face some kind of consequences for raping.

What about consequences longer than 'months' for some?

Yeah, as long as rape remains essentially a moral and legal grey white area , I expect people will deal with rapists any way hey have to. Yes, I'm strongly in favor of vigilantism in this instance. I've always said you should be prepared to go to prison if you want to do what you think is right.

What about vigilantism for murder? For assault with a deadly weapon? For the love of all that is logical, do not say, "Because rape is worse," because you might run back into the question, "Why is it worse?"

The only question here I think is "Should this vigilante go to prison?" And the answer is, of course she shouldn't. She shouldn't have been put in a position where setting a person on fire was the most appealing choice available to her to begin with. The world is obviously wrong. If we wanted to put it right, this would be as good a place to start as any.

My answer? Yes, because it's still murder. No matter how many ways you flip it, that's what it boils down to. Unless they were constantly harassing her and she sought a self-defense method, that's what it was. Then if you start allowing vigilantism now, it sets an example for others to misinterpret it for their own gain and leads to grossly exaggerated punishments for lesser crimes. Please don't tell me, "But that's always rare," because killing someone is never the answer. To anything.

Now, I know this is going to be brought up, it's the laws concerning rape. I think it's the people carrying out said law that are to blame and defense lawyers are paid to misconstrue the meaning of those laws, but just how do you write them to the point that it's impossible to do so? You would need to cover a lot of possible situations which could happen and the variables of said situations. The laws themselves would quite literally need volumes of it's own to define it.

Now, despite what I wrote above, I agree. The law does need to be revised so there's no questions about the definition, but how does one make it so ironclad?

And Amake, I'm kind of shocked at you advocating this kind of thing. Especially after your responses in the thread about the baby girl that was raped to death by her mother's boyfriend. Was there vigilantism in the incident? Nope, but you objected to the outcries for it to happen. Not saying you can't have a change of heart, but it is strange to see.

[Amake]

What I argued against in that thread was torturing and killing a man under the pretense of higher moral authority and the protection of law for the sake of satisfying the bloodlust of the collective of civil society. The crucial difference is that that baby-raper was caught and made to face the consequences of his actions. It's when that fails that vigilante justice replaces the rule of law. Same thing with murder and non-sexual assault. The system often works to protect against those things. Sometimes it even works to protect against rape.

When it doesn't, yes, you may have to go to prison to do what's right, like I said. I don't think I said we should allow vigilantism. If I was trying to dictate policy I would have said yes, she needs to go to prison because that's the price you pay for taking the law in your own hands. It was more of an observation about the way the world should work.

[Bum Bill Bee]

I don't pretend to be any saint or genius with moral issues but this....I just plain don't approve of overly violent vigilante actions against people, regardless of how bad the deed is, or wether he actually did it. Balls, I'm not even a fan of killing i nself defence. Treat people the way you want to be treated and let God and law enforcers handle the ugly stuff.

Seil made a good point with how vigilantism is only cool and fun in the comics and toons.

[Magus]

Did she sneak up on him and set him on fire or something?