DARK SOULS 2: The Search for Solaire's Gold

[greed]

Not thread for it so I suppose I'll make it, Dark Souls 2 is out and it's actually somehow better than the last one. I'm nearly at NG+ and I'm still finding shit. One thing I've noticed is they seem to have responded to the criticisms about the drop in quality after Anor Londo in DS1, the content seems to be somewhat backloaded, the start is good (but even harder than DS1's) but it gets better as the game goes on and the later areas seem to have noticeably more budget behind them, which is unusual for games and a welcome change.

Multiplayer also seems to work better, they've toned down backstabs and the servers instead of PnP means lag is much less of an issue and matchmaking is fast if you're in somewhat decent level range. I've spent most of today infuriating people in the successor to the forest covenant.

Oh there's also a ring which allows for higher multiplayer matching by players naming the same god to worship. Should we pick one?

Oh and

PRAISE THE SUN

[Revising Ocelot]

Dark Souls 2 is out

No it's not.

http://i.imgur.com/NVbDTuy.png

Mumu you're a slacker

So, how about all that downgrade stuff? Like the graphics in the demo and all pre-release screenshots looking almost nothing like the final game. The website itself still shows them. Biggest case of bullshots I've ever seen, even counting most Ubisoft games. Doesn't bother me too much, but there is a hell of a lot of internet rage about "Scamco lies".

[greed]

No it's not.

http://i.imgur.com/NVbDTuy.png

Mumu you're a slacker

So, how about all that downgrade stuff? Like the graphics in the demo and all pre-release screenshots looking almost nothing like the final game. The website itself still shows them. Biggest case of bullshots I've ever seen, even counting most Ubisoft games. Doesn't bother me too much, but there is a hell of a lot of internet rage about "Scamco lies".

I think the downgrade stuff was for consoles to get it to run smoothly, which it does it has none of the framerate issues DS1 had. They're less bullshots and more shots taken from the PC version. I thought you'd be crowing about that RO. It still looks better than DS1 anyway so I'm not too bothered.

[Revising Ocelot]

Evidence currently suggests that PC's getting the same lighting as the consoles, though. Details aren't exactly forthcoming from FROM. I guess I'll find out on the day.

[greed]

Evidence currently suggests that PC's getting the same lighting as the consoles, though. Details aren't exactly forthcoming from FROM. I guess I'll find out on the day.

And beaten it, 60 hours in and it's better than the 1st (or 2nd really with Demon's which it is also better than). The graphics thing doesn't matter it's a fantastic game. Make sure to explore thoroughly from Majula, there are 3 level paths you can go on right from the start and two that unlock by going some distance down some of the others.

And that's all that really needs to be said.

[Raiden]

Been playing it since it came out. Even only going after work you can get through it fairly quick.

Up to lvl 110, going a Polearm Lightning Cleric Build. Began as Cleric and currently have a Lightning Halberd +10, Lightning Estoc +9, Binoculars (They come in super handy to aim Miracles), Royal Knight Shield +7, and Lightning Priest's Chime +7 (to be replaced with a Lightning Dragon's Chime). Wearing the Saint's Hood +1, Creighton's Chainmail +6, Engraved Gauntlets +1, and Drangleic Pants +2.

Then all the lightning miracles and Sun Blade. I'm made of lightning.

[Aldurin]

It might just be a side effect of me region-locking my multiplayer experience, but the invasion side of summoning seems to be pretty lax outside of the goddam belfry. The only non-gray invasion I've seen so far is a guy invading in the Forest of Fallen Giants while I was summoned into a Pursuer murder party, and that guy was glomped before the dagger wizard at the front of the group could land a backstab.

Maybe the invasion changes are less appealing, or it might be my tendency to overlevel but I get the feeling that hostile invasions are falling out of style.

[Revising Ocelot]

Red orbs are limited in supply before NG+, and in NG invasions are tied to both Soul Level and Soul Memory whereas in NG+ it's tied to just Soul Memory. And most people going through the game for the first time probably don't want to invade as a red phantom, anyway.

I did one red invasion myself in the Forest, where I introduced a person to guard breaks. I also got invaded yesterday by a red, in Black Gulch. Insane decision, so I killed him for it.

As for the Belfry... which Belfry? :smug:
Rats.

I'm made of lightning.
Do you let yourself get stabbed so you can then commit wanton acts of REVENGEANCE?

[greed]

Yeah NG+ is loaded with invasions, I'm getting at least 2 or 3 an hour playing NG+. Also I found something amazingly dickish. You can invade in the Abyss covenant levels.

Also my favourite Belfry trick is to run around with high stamina chuggging green leaves til the host gets sick of it and tries to climb the tower. Then lightning bolt them as they climb. DS has so many fun dickery options.

[Aldurin]

The belfry would be better if doing the boss fight without summons isn't near impossible with certain builds. And the invade rate is insane since I can't even throw down a white soapstone before having to dagger wizard on two gray invaders.

Dagger wizard actually works amazingly well in PvP. Sorcery them down at long range, and when they wise up and come in close you backstab them or punish them for having stupidly low poise.

Black Mage tactics are legit.

[Revising Ocelot]

If you've got a Name-Engraved Ring I believe that increases summon ranges. I was 600k SM and got summoned by Ryong using the ring, and he was 950k. Currently I'm 874k and SL 87, but if I dump my sign at the start you might be able to catch it using the ring. When would be a good time?

[A Zarkin' Frood]

I was very disappointed with Dark Souls II at first because the world isn't as interesting and the a lot of the bosses are uninspired in visual and game design. Same is true for quite a few areas that are regular souls fare by now. And whatever intern designed Black Gulch is an idiot. I know people like that area but it can't possibly be for gameplay reasons. Then again, it's still a fantastic game, even though its highs aren't quite as high as those of the first game. The endgame is kind of a let down here too, but there's nothing like Lost Izalith or Crystal Caves here at least. And all tings considered: If this (http://i.imgur.com/6qDe287.jpg) is possible it has to be awesome.

[Ryong]

I see Dark Souls 2 as an improvement in some areas - non-shit physics, better movesets on everything in general, more reliable summons, more variety in builds...

But it does have a generally weaker boss design, a less interconnected world and FUCKING BELFRY LUNA.

[Ramary]

The bell towers are optional areas so I did not mind them too much, with the exception of the boss of luna being the most lazy boss in a game full of lazy bosses. I played bell tower invader for awhile since free chunks that early is an insane reward and had some fun with it.

I finished the game over the weekend, and although I did enjoy it, when you compare it to Demon and Dark Souls the game is just lammmmmmmmmmme. With the exception of the two bosses of Huntsman's Corpse Whamu and his vampire horse from JoJo and THE LORDS OF SKELETONS none of the game's bosses really felt memorable, in fact manly of them blur together because they are all just dudes in armor with a big weapon most of the time (or multiple dudes in armor with a weapon). Speaking of muti dudes, the reliant on hordes in the game itself and certain bosses FUCK YOU AND YOUR TOXIC RATS ROYAL RAT AUTHORITY really made the game feel like such a slog. It did not help that your character feels super weak till about 60% in because of the lower starting stats and the lack of decent gear early on, on top of large titiante+ being far less easy to obtain (sans bell towerin for chunks), in fact it feels almost all the twinkling titaine was place in the post-castle dranglec areas.

While I am on that topic, Dark Souls biggest flaw was its last act, with the 4 big bosses and their areas being less then great compared to the parish, sen's fortress and anor londo. This was the one thing I expected them to fix but amazingly they kept that tradition up. With the exception of Dragon Town USA the game post the 4 great souls is such a slog, the bosses just get worst and worst, one boss is just a normal enemy you fight again in greater numbers IN THE VERY NEXT LEVEL. To top it off, the final boss is so pathetically easy. I know that is kinda a Souls thing at this point, but the other two were meant to be easy because of lore reasons. This person is apparently at full power.

I will say NG+ is way more interesting then it's previous incarnations and overall mutiplayer is way better (although soul memory causes issues) but this game was totally a disappointment to me (still better then most games these days but hey, the feeling is still there).

[A Zarkin' Frood]

This person is apparently at full power.

Well...
Nashandra is a fragment of Manus. The smallest one in fact, furthermore it could be argued that she wants the PC to win in the most hollowed out state possible so he's closer to "Dark" when he sits down on the throne raising the chances of him doing... dark stuff... I guess. Hence all of her attacks inflicting curse.

I have written 10000 paragraphs on why I think Dark Souls II is both better and worse than the first game in some other forum but mostly I agree with what you said.

[Arcanum]

2 handed heavy attacks break poise, regardless of what weapon you're using. The more this knowledge spreads, the more I face people using a weapon with an easy to hit 2H heavy attack. The current offender is the Estoc, since it has a massive range thrust with good tracking. You can't trade hits unless you have a weapon with equally long range, and if you try to roll past the attack to get in range, they recover from their own attack and roll away before you can get off a roll attack with most weapons.

Not to mention you can enchant any weapon, be it infused or a boss weapon, so there's literally no point to not have Crystal Magic Weapon, Lightning Weapon, or Fire Weapon.

Fire Weapon is its own set of ridiculousness, since at 35 int it gives me the same damage as CMW, and fire weapon has 4 charges compared to CMWs 1, and I'm currently debating on if it's even worth keeping my spellsword build or if I should just ditch all my int for more health and stamina and stick with Fire Weapon.


Anyway, with all that bitching aside, I'm thoroughly enjoying the game. There are only three boss fights that I have an issue with (1.Smelter Demon, because he takes hardly any damage and it feels like there's a gimmick to stop him from powering up, but no, it's just a lame fight. 2.Darklurker because you have to use an effigy every time you want to fight it, and trek through one of the Chasms. This one is just a personal dislike though, since he gave me a lot of trouble and I got frustrated and kept fucking up. 3.And the biggest offender is the Ancient Dragon. Massive AoE aerial fireblast that's a one-shot kill. And you can't even get him into a pattern because sometimes he will fly up on the spot and rain fire at that location, other times he will fly up and move forward and then rain fire down. The fight is a combination of pure luck, patience, and even more luck. Not to mention the run to the fight is horse shit, although I did perfect running through all the enemies on the big stairs. Still, I'm never fighting him again.) And sure while some others are lackluster there's still way more bosses in DkS2 than there were in DkS1, so I can forgive them for the lackluster ones.

[Azisien]

Hurray for PC release!

Too bad the game is just coasting on Dark Souls' success and I haven't really seen a single mote of innovation, the game is so far less dark, the bosses are easier (though some correction for "I am more skilled post-Dark Souls" is warranted), and because of the lighting changes I find the PC version hard to look at it. Like it's actually disgusting. It looks like a game from 2006. And I'm too afraid try out mods because I keep hearing rumours FROM is banning for any modification at all. But there is that huge silver lining because...

ONLINE GOD DAMN WORKS! WOO! Used to take 15-40 minutes to connect with my ample supply of Dark Souls friends for some co-op action. Now it takes 15-40 seconds. Huge, huge, key improvement and the sole reason I will keep on playing it until games I'm more interested in come out.

[greed]

.... all these people down on it, I actually liked it more than the first. I thought that while the highs might not have been as high, the game as a whole was much better and the lows were nowhere near the worst part of DS1 or Demon's. It just seems tighter and more competent.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Just because I have complaints about the game doesn't mean I don't think it's fantastic. However, loving Dark and Demon's Souls to death I'm of course highly critical of anything the game does. Mechanically the game has clearly improved. It's true that it's more consistent in quality than the first game. But it doesn't really have anything that stands out particularly (Like Anor Londo and the fantastic O&S fight, which is among my favorite bosses ever, my favorite one is actually Gwyn, lore, music and challenge-wise. It's not the hardest but a worthy final boss (If y'all fuckers would just learn to just not use parrys). Neither when it comes to design nor challenge. The game seems to like just throwing higher numbers of enemies at you.
I also get the feeling that they focused too much on making the game harder (I personally think it's easier) But the thing is for me the games have never been about difficulty, neither have they been for the devs or the old lead designer. I have the feeling that they focused on a part of the game that was a side effect from wanting to give you a feeling of hopelessness earlier and made it the main attraction. Well, whatever, marketing has done that ever since Dark Souls and for a lot of people it totally is the one part of the game that is noteworthy. As I said, I think it's easier. The thing is there are a few cheap shots the game pulls. Like ambushes you can't defend yourself against unless you learn to avoid them completely which you can only do on your second attempt because they are basically enemies that attack you as you open doors. There's other stuff too, like one infamous example is the Shrine of Amana: An area that's actually really cool looking and has a great Atmosphere, it was the first time in the game I actually really felt something unique was going on. And honestly, I didn't have a hard time with it because I always carry a ranged weapon of sorts with me but quite a few players really have trouble with this areas because it flat-out favors ranged builds. For the most part going close-range isn't too hard either but there are bits that just flat out punish going in. Y'know, like the rest of the game, only now you're forced to do it. This could have been a fun gimmick to the area but it just goes on for too long. Contrast the Greatbow Silver Knights in Anor Londo which does the same thing. One short bit that gets the point across, people get mad at it but they don't consider it a show stopper and it doesn't force those who play more restrictive builds to change it fundamentally..

As for the world itself: I'm a little sad the interconnectivity of the first game is gone. But while some argue that being able to warp from the beginning is merely used as a design crutch but I personally see it more as a return to the way Demon's Souls did it which I'm perfectly okay with, although I hope From revisits the more interconnected way to design their world which made it kind of feel like a 3D metroidvania in some later game. I don't think the lack of interconnectivity is laziness, it's a deliberate design choice. They wanted to make Drangleic feel bigger because it's an entire continent. And at that they have succeeded. Sure, some people complain that a few areas technically overlap but people who give a shit about that should just stop looking at map viewers because aside from using one of those you could not hope to tell. Plus the same was true for Dark Souls. Both games used various tricks to make you believe that this is not the case and people only found out once the PC version was out and they could just find ways to look at the maps. What I think is inexcusable though is one particular transition. Of course you know what I'm talking about Earthen Peak to Iron Keep. That is, no argument, just plain lazy. Simply because the solution to would be as simple as making the elevator go down instead of up. Naturally, I was thinking maybe there's a lore reason for that. But learning about the lore of the area made it even clearer that they just wanted to somehow transition from area A to area B but decided not to really bother with it and just throw in a long-ass elevator ride in some area somewhere and it ended up being an upwards elevator ride from a poison windmill with nothing but clear sky above it to an underground lava castle that has sunken into the ground due to its immense weight. A cool setpiece ruined by a lazy transition. It's one thing, but it's really bothering me because both Demon's and Dark Souls had very cohesive world design and while Dark Souls II relies on tunnels and elevators a lot it still felt like one world until that point. Naturally, a majority of players don't give a shit about that because it's just a video game and people who think about stuff in video games are nerds and that's perfectly fine, I'm happy for those who don't care.

Then there's the general progression with a slight sprinkle of lore relevancy. At first you have two paths open. Three if you're willing to shell out some souls. And that's great. As a new character you could reasonably go down all three of those paths. Of course we have no idea why the fuck we're there, even less so than in Dark Souls (because no matter what people say, that game did give you an explicit goal and some direction), which ties nicely into the theme of loss of identity and memory introduced in the intro cinematic as well as the sequence leading to character creation. We get our first goal from an NPC I missed for a while on my first playthrough, wondering if I can only level up after the first area like in Demon's Souls and it's not like I wasn't looking. Anyway, we complete that task we are given get some hint that the Emerals Herald is also the old (fourth) Firekeeper from the intro cinematic who guides cursed ones to Drangleic but we don't really know where to go, well we might if we found some of those mysterious doors. But aside from that we "don't really know why". Which is a phrase we've heard twice in the game at that point. It's kind of a nice touch but makes the endgame feel like there's no direction whatsoever. It would help if the endgame areas were actually good. Aldia's Keep is a straight corridor with big dudes, Dragon Aerie is nice looking but boring as shit gameplay-wise. The only enemies that matter are basically the boss of the previous area, only you fight him three times here. Dragon Shrine is... well people like it so I'm a little reluctant to say it, but neither does it tickle my fancy with its visuals nor does the gameplay part of it. It's just a ton of big dudes with big weapons, like 90% of the bosses of the game. Lastly... the fucking Ancient Memories... a cool idea in theory, but why does it have to be three (four if you count the Dragon Memory) micro areas? We can plainly see that the areas technically connected at certain points but the path is obstructed by rubble. Why not have one big final area in ONE memory without a time limit(say, maybe the one of the Last Giant to give it some significance?) instead of having me go to a completely different area to grab an item just to have access to the boss of that area located in an entirely different micro area (I'm ignoring the Ancient Dragon as a boss of Dragon Shrine here because it's a horrible boss, instead I consider the Giant Lord the boss of Dragon Shrine)

I almost feel bad for highlighting what I perceive has flaws of the game because despite all those complaints I still love the game, have sunken plenty of hours into it and will probably get the PC version as well once it goes on sale.

tl;dr: Snake? SNAKE!? SNAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!

[Solid Snake]

tl;dr: Snake? SNAKE!? SNAAAAAAAAAAKE!!!!

...What?!?

[Revising Ocelot]

...What?!?

You're pretty good.

[Solid Snake]

Kept you waiting, huh?

[Kim]

I started up my second character. Running around without shields. Primary weapon is dual fists in power stance. Gonna infuse the fist weapons with lightning and I'll be a Hamon user. ALSO I named my character I'm Sad

[Solid Snake]

I started up my second character. Running around without shields. Primary weapon is dual fists in power stance. Gonna infuse the fist weapons with lightning and I'll be a Hamon user. ALSO I named my character I'm Sad

It's moments like these when I force myself to wonder why I haven't even started Dark Souls 1 yet.
(...Then I remember everyone harping over the difficulty and the ability for jerks to enter into your game and fuck you up, and I'm like, yeah, that's why.)

[Kim]

You can play offline if you don't wanna be harassed and honestly the difficulty isn't as bad as people make it out to be. It's mostly sort of a back and forth between you and the game where you push forward a bit, it pushes back, you regain your footing and push some more. I'd actually say Dark Souls 2 is more outright difficult and unforgiving but even that is still more fair than a lot of games that sell themselves on challenge.

[Arcanum]

I finally farmed up my 50th awestone on my second character (gotta love using ascetics to reset the respawns on an npc phantom that invades 12 times per ascetic). So now he has a ring that makes his bare hands stronger than a +10 Caestus. At 50 str, 20 dex, (and ring of blades +1) Caestus +10 deals 290-ish, while my hands deal 371. It's fantastic. The only downside is I can't enchant my fists, or use resins, but who cares when you can punch smug ultra greatsword or rapier users to death.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

It's moments like these when I force myself to wonder why I haven't even started Dark Souls 1 yet.
(...Then I remember everyone harping over the difficulty and the ability for jerks to enter into your game and fuck you up, and I'm like, yeah, that's why.)

Here's something you have to know: Prior to Dark Souls II the difficulty was a side effect of the atmosphere the game tried to convey and it never was nearly as bad as the collective internet makes it out to be. It's definitely not a game for everyone and whether it is one for you or not isn't something that I can make a reasonable guess about. People either love it or hate it. Because of that I'd say it's definitely okay to get a used copy or buy it when it's on sale so it makes less of an impact on your wallet in case you don't like it.
Also: Playing offline doesn't really hurt the experience, had to play Demon's and Dark souls offline for the first few times. The only thing that might become an issue that you'll have more trouble finding some of the secrets because you can't see hints by other players.

[Marc v4.0]

The only places I've had to deal with invasions were Belfry Luna (fuck those belltowers, thank god they are optional) and the Rat Covenant Area. Ratbros can summon YOU into their world as a Grey Phantom, and your objective is to not get killed by traps and NPCs and make it to the next part of the area. Those have been very fun encounters so far, and each win has netted me a Lockstone.

Seriously, though, belltower guardians can go to hell.

[Solid Snake]

Oh, I own the first Dark Souls, I just haven't gotten around to playing it yet.
But, yeah, it definitely sounds like it's worth playing.

[Marc v4.0]

Doors of Pharros Rat Covies are lazy as all hell. They activate all the traps and then just idle, auto-summoning in Players and letting the traps do the work. Easiest lockstones I ever earned

[Ramary]

I was summoned into one today on my way to kill Poor Man's Sif and he was waiting at the very end thinking he was a final boss of it all, all the traps were unlocked and he was just spamming gestures...

All the traps except the one that blocked me from just walking into the bonfire room. I bet he was super disappointed I did not come fight him (It was probably better that way for him after all, I am a dirty dirty dark magic user this playthough).

[Aldurin]

Beat the game as my Sorcerer-turned-Hexer-turned-Miraculer, and I like it. While some things don't entirely work out too well nothing beyond the Black Gulch was enough to make me paralyzed with "FUCK THIS".

Also NG+ is slightly disappointing since it looks like a half effort to shake things up from standard NG. Sure they open up with falconers asking if you're tough enough to not back down but beyond the extra enemy here and there and some blindingly obvious red phantom extras it seems like they did just enough to get away with saying that NG+ is different enough.

Having the PvP open past the beginner stage is nice though, and nothing is more satisfying than being the steaming turd on top of the jerk cake that an invader has turned around on him. Sentinel of the Blue here to shove lightning bolts, dark humanity and soul energy up your ass while you try to dodge the host who may or may not be attempting the same thing.

Sentinel of the Blue is an enjoyable evil thing since you're basically ensuring an unfair matchup for someone, which would be mean if they weren't already being mean by invading in the first place. Counter-assholism for the masses!

[Ryong]

NG+ in Dark Souls was the exact same game with higher numbers and you could get gravelorded.

NG+ in Dark Souls 2 has several new enemies, new loot, bosses ( apparently ) learn new attacks and you get to fight two Pursuers at once.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

bosses ( apparently ) learn new attacks
Nope, not as far as I can tell. Their AI remains completely unchanged too, bosses sometimes get help from some additional enemies. Lost Sinner gets two pyromancers, because she's influenced by the soul of the Witch of Izalith, duh, Flexile Sentry gets two really annoying adds you can grind for their armor. Right now I don't remember anything else that changes during boss fights, though.

I honestly don't see a reason to complain about NG+. Especially if you compare it to the NG+ of Demon's Souls and Dark Souls which, to my knowledge no one has complained about. Sure most of the enemy placements are just more dudes, at times it gets cruel, though. Like in Huntsmans Copse before the boss door, sure, there's an easy way to deal with those two artificial undead, but you won't know that the first time around. Other than that I'm not really fond of all the high-HP red phantom randoms in NG+, because, well, they are not fun compared to their non-phantom counterparts. They just take more hits.

In other news. I recently finished a playthrough with a dual Caestus build and it was fun. Be sure to go shirtless and get a strongman mustache. Only true way to play a build like this.

[Kim]

I've been playing dual Cestus and banning myself from using shields at all and I've temporarily given up on the game because I really genuinely hate the gargoyle boss. It doesn't make me angry it's just tedious.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Just beat this game on PC a little while ago after having beaten the original back in March. Really liked it. A few changes I really appreciate are the simplified methods of equipment upgrade and repair, as well as bonfires being placed in a much more merciful way. Some people would tell me that in the first game "Oh the bonfires being so far was just to make it more difficult" but I think thats bullshit, it just makes it tedious. I never had a Tomb of the Giants or Lost Izalith moment which is a definite positive. The climax was a bit unsatisfying though. The last boss was difficult, but more in a frustrating way rather than a cool way. The last boss of the first game was just easy, but that one had Kalameet to make up for it. Something I kinda miss was the way that the first Dark Souls would scatter ridiculous enemies around the world early on, like Black Knights or Havel, to give some value to backtracking, but maybe some enemies just seemed easier to me after having been a veteran of the original. Overall though, Dark Souls II definitely smooths out its predecessor in a lot of good ways, and I hope that it has even more to offer on a second play through.

e: While I feel the gameplay has been overall improved and made more interesting, I will agree that the boss fights are generally less interesting the first game. Also, I really am not fond of the Hollowing system. I got used to it after a while, but the whole mechanic felt really backwards and artificial to me. It works well with the revamped Curse effect, but on the whole it strikes me as a very artificial way to inject more difficulty. Also, this is probably just my fault, but I just don't understand parrying and riposting at all in this game. I've gotten riposte to work, like, 5 times. I suppose that, on the flipside, backstabbing is more reliable.

e2: I actually didn't mind the Gutter or Black Gulch at all. In fact, I was sorta amazed at how SHORT that whole area was in contrast to Earthen Peak/Iron Keep.

[Arcanum]

You have to wait for them to fall on their ass after parrying before you attack. I didn't know that until an invader did it to me. Apparently you can also get a riposte-like animation stab when you shield-break someone (forward + light attack) but I've never been able to get the timing right on that one.

[Kim]

Black Gulch is genuinely one of the more interesting areas in Dark Souls 2 and that it is as short as it is is a real shame. What I WOULD change about that area is make only a few of the statues spit poison. That way, it's less about destroying every statue, changing a cool aesthetic into a nuisance, and more about figuring out which is shooting you.

[Ramary]

The one thing I liked about Black Gulch was The Rotten, which even though this game has the weakest Archdemon bosses overall (that is saying a lot with Dark Souls one and Bed of Chaos) Rotten was pretty cool since you could literally tear him apart. Also the idea of Black Gulch just being his personal art project you stumbled into is pretty funny to me.

[Kim]

Apparently the statues in the Gulch are supposed to look like Maiden Astrea from Demon's Souls

[Ramary]

I doubt that is actually relevant to the lore since different universes but that is pretty cool if that was the case, I'd buy it since Velstadt was shamelessly Garl Vinland, so I could see them making an Astrea reference somewhere too, and I am okay with it since that fight was the best part of that game to me.

Almost made Valley of Defilement worth it.

[Marc v4.0]

The game is pretty heavy handed in it's theme of being about memory and cycles, so it's not just tongue and cheek having imagery referencing Garl and Astrea, it's an intentional design choice to make you look twice.

Apparently Earthen Peak(Or maybe it was Harvest Valley) and Mytha are all but lifted straight up out of King's Field 4, area and boss almost exactly the same

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Apparently the statues in the Gulch are supposed to look like Maiden Astrea from Demon's Souls

Also Rhea from Dark Souls. They look almost the same. Astraea, Nito and The Rotten are linked in a way anyway. Astraea and Nito both being more "noble" enemies (in case of Astraea it's really obvious, though). What with Nito just chillin' in his coffin until the player comes along to take his Lord Soul because the plot demands it. You can even join his covenant before that and be grave buddies. The Rotten is basically Nito or at least holds the Lord Soul Nito possessed and seems to just try hang out in black gulch fixing the broken statues those dicks who come through there keep breaking. I like to think they only shoot poison to prevent people from breaking them. Of course, this is just what makes me break them.

I agree that Black Gulch would be a good area if it didn't have so many statues or no poison statues at all and more complex level design instead. Because as it stands the only reason you might not instantly zip through it is because of those statues. There's so much that could have been done with Black Gulch. Instead I consider it on par with Lost Izalith. At least it has a better boss.

[Ramary]

Oh come on, nothing is as bad as Lost Izalith. Hell even Upper Blighttown is worst then Gulch. Gulch is just kind of a nothing place to me, I don't consider it the games worst area, for me that would be Shrine of Amana or Aida's Keep, but if it was removed entirely and Rotten was just the boss of Gutter nothing of value would be lost.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

I'm basing this on the fact that you can just run through lost Izalith but can't run through Gulch. Having to stop every couple meters to destroy scenery to avoid being poisoned is just tedious Also: Upper Blighttown is awesome, so is lower Blighttown. I genuinely like that area, then again, I also liked Valley of Defilement. It did that whole poison swamp thing better than Blighttown.

Gutter is a neat idea in concept, being the toilet of the land all that but it feels like a lazy copypaste job with some alterations for every platform. I'd rather have a bigger Gulch than the Gutter. Would be awesome if it actually were a vertical area to give the player more of a feeling of going deep down below the earth. I know this is what they were going for anyway but it kind of got lost on me because there's only few portions of vertical travel and they are in the transition between Majula and Grave of Saints and from there to Gutter and it's too simple and quick to make an impact and get the point across, at least to me. I know others feel differently about that. But yeah, Gulch is actually an interesting area that could have a lot of atmosphere were it not so tedious. It has nice details like the hearbeat in the background. I just wish it were a little brighter beyond the actual map you are traversing because staring into blackness when looking into the distance is something the game just really does too much. Sometimes showing less can give you the feeling of being in a vast place even though it's technically small. Gulch on the other hand feels small and is small precisely because we see next to nothing of it except the parts we can walk on.

[Aldurin]

It would have been nicer if the Gutter and Gulch weren't such stark transitions. I liked both areas atmospherically, but the Gutter's fog effect on top of the heartbeats and the sliming walls why does the slime keep moving it scares me made it the better area. The Black Gulch would have been better if OH FUCK POISON STATUES didn't occupy 99% of your conscious brain capacity between the bonfire, the boss and the secret area.

The worst areas of the game are the optional ones dedicated to being playgrounds for the members of the jerk covenants there, because everyone loves an optional gauntlet with guaranteed invasions or worse. Shrine of Amana was definitely the worst non-optional area for abusing the combo of homing spells and waist-high water, almost necessitating summon support.

Worst boss is the Ancient Dragon, though. All you can really do is place your soapstone at the Dragon Shrine so that your repeated deaths are someone else's problem until you figure out the timing to avoid the radial fire breath. It's bad since the normal "make your own solution to combat" design of Dark Souls fades there with the two options being to juke the fire or be an over-equipped supertank that stands there and gives no fucks, which was all there was really since the its other attacks were negligible in comparison.

[Ramary]

I will admit that my problem with Upper Blighttown is my problem. In concept I like it way more then the swamp cause like you said, it is a mostly vertical level in which you try to make your way down. The problem with that is everything else about it. I hate how easy it is for you to fall off at random spots mostly, but that might be just me, but I am not alone on the noscopeMLG toxic snipers that you can barely see half the time. The swamp itself, even without the iron ring, is super relaxing to me compared to that. But I actually do not hate U. Blight that much NOW because I almost memorized the place after repeated playthoughs and even if I just do not want to deal with it, I always pick the master key as my gift.

Lost Izalith is the worst thing ever solely because Bed of Chaos. Sounds petty but...fuck that boss.

Ancient Dragon is terrible too, but he is 100% optional, you don't even get anything of real value for him, you don't need his giant soul for Vendrick and even his own boss soul is somewhere else because hes a fake dragon. Bed of Chaos is required if you want to finish the game.

As a side note to know how different our preferences probably are, I genuinely think Tomb of Giants is the best post Londo area if you don't count the DLC. I was super bummed when the torch turned out to be mostly worthless in DS2 outside The Gutter, which I liked more because I needed the torch despite having them dogs with the worst attack hitbox in the entire game.

[Ryong]

Lost Izalith has a fucking horrible design because they ran out of money and just went with a ton of dragon asses, another version of the tutorial boss that works exactly like a bonus boss you probably already fought but with a slighty different design and with fire instead of magic and then there's goddamn bed of chaos.

Upper Blighttown is a horrible place and then you get to lower Blighttown, with infinite mosquitoes and poisonous swamp water. Sure, poison is a lot stronger in dark souls 2, but you can see what's shooting you with it and you can make it stop - and also using a lifegem is almost good enough to nullify poison.

Also, apparently Darklurker, the bonus abyss boss, is Seath. No, not Seath from Dark Souls 1, no, it's Seath, the final boss of King's Field 2. King's Field series seems to also have had the giant mushroom dudes.

Also this is spoilered because I think most people have no idea about it, but Licia is the nameless usurper and you can invade her like you invaded Lautrec.

[Aldurin]

Dragon asses in a field of fucking lava. For corner cuts they could have done far worse.

. . . yeah, Lost Izalith was shit.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I skipped over most of the dragons, but what really killed Lost Izalith for me was the Bed of Chaos. Uggggggggh. As far as general level design though, I felt Tomb of the Giants was the worst area. The sheer GAUNTLET of monsters you have to run past EVERY TIME just to reach ONE boss that requires fall damage is sheer bullshit. "Oh hey before you drain like half your health on this fall, enjoy a tedious ranged battle with five Pinwheels too!"

Also, this may have just been my PC, but Lost Izalith really struck me as one of the UGLIEST areas of the game. All the lava rock looking things just seemed to have the same small texture spread out over them repeatedly. Dark Souls II had the same problem in some locations also, like in some of the backgrounds of the forest areas. It was almost like a bad minecraft mod. It was rather jarring as areas like Majula and the Dragon Aery were rather visually appealing the whole way through.

[Kim]

I actually didn't mind Bed of Chaos that much? It's really short, it saves your progress, and it's not really hard. Like, it's a shitty boss but it's a hell of a lot easier to get through than the archdemon dragon thing in Demon's Souls

[Ramary]

It is a real random boss, you could sail though it flawlessly, or the very edge of the branch hitbox taps you into insta-death pit. Dragon God is pretty crappy too, but I did not have as much trouble with him, maybe it was because I did Bed of Chaos first (I played Dark Souls first) so it did not seem as bad. Also the other 3 archdemons in that game were the highlight of the game for me, so I excused Dragon God a bit, while Dark Souls last 3rd is already infamous for being underwhelming and rushed and Bed of Chaos was the last straw sort of deal for me.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

It is a real random boss
It's not really random, you can always do it the same way.
Take out the right side first step out, block the first hit, turn around and block the second one (high stability shields make this much easier) then run out of its reach while avoiding the crumbling floor, stick to the outer wall as you make your way to the other side until you can't go any further because the floor has crumbled. Take out a bow and shoot at the root, do this as long as it takes to actually break through the smaller branches and then hit the actual thing. Lastly, go back to the middle. Bait its attacks until you get an opening, then approach it slightly from the right in order to drop just right. Be sure to be at full health because if it casts the fire tempest when you're down you can't dodge very easily so it's better to take a hit than risk falling.
Of course, this doesn't mean it's not a bad and unfun boss, I just really don't mind it as much as everyone else and while Lost Izalith isn't exactly good by any means I don't mind it too much either because it's easy to get through. I sure wish it were more fun and actually challenging, though. And I wish Bed of Chaos were a good boss. I like visual aesthetic of the area, though, it reminds me of lower Norfair from Super Metroid and its place in the lore makes it interesting as well. It's just that those aren't gonna make it any more fun to play through.

Unrelated: Dark Souls II in two minutes (http://youtu.be/Obkd0NeRWbg). We wary of spoilers, naturally.

[Ryong]

Funny you mention a "high stability shield" because it's actually easier to use a shitty shield to block the first hit and then you get knocked down which will automatically evade the second hit.

With a high stability shield you take damage from both hits which is usually enough to kill you.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Funny you mention a "high stability shield" because it's actually easier to use a shitty shield to block the first hit and then you get knocked down which will automatically evade the second hit.

With a high stability shield you take damage from both hits which is usually enough to kill you.
I don't think you know how blocking works. I don't know exact numbers but if your stability is high enough bed of chaos can't break your guard. In that case you can block both hits with whatever damage reduction your shield has applied. I think even the eagle shield has high enough stability and that's the lightest greatshield. I know for a fact that the tower shield works. I don't usually use greatshields but for that boss I make an exception. The highest stability medium shield I'm aware of is the Silver/Black Knight shield but I don't know if those work.
There's a reason I keep saying stability is the most important stat on shields. It allows you to take crazy shit like Smough's charge. At least for a couple hits. Also depends on your stamina of course.


If you're feeling gutsy I'm sure you can also dodge through it at the last second.

[Ramary]

I actually do bed of chaos with only a light weapon and the black robes with all the FR, I learned to dodge that boss pretty good.

Still hate it cause it is not fun.

[Kim]

I decided to make a Tumblor post about my Dark Souls II thoughts (http://kimmyredridinghood.tumblr.com/post/86222324769/dark-souls-2-thoughts)

I dunno, check it out if it seems like a thing you'd wanna read.

I don't get into it, but I definitely feel like the bosses in the game were a letdown tho. Most of them feel too straightforward, barring like the chariot or a couple others. I think I would have preferred shitty but kinda interesting boss fights over a lot of what we got.

[Ryong]

I don't think you know how blocking works. I don't know exact numbers but if your stability is high enough bed of chaos can't break your guard. In that case you can block both hits with whatever damage reduction your shield has applied. I think even the eagle shield has high enough stability and that's the lightest greatshield. I know for a fact that the tower shield works. I don't usually use greatshields but for that boss I make an exception. The highest stability medium shield I'm aware of is the Silver/Black Knight shield but I don't know if those work.
There's a reason I keep saying stability is the most important stat on shields. It allows you to take crazy shit like Smough's charge. At least for a couple hits. Also depends on your stamina of course.

Stability only determines how much stamina it costs to block a hit. I don't quite remember the specifics, but I believe I'd take damage even when blocking and if I didn't use a worse shield I'd "block" the two hits and die instead of just blocking one and getting knocked down on the ground.

Not to mention there's a chance you can just end the slide directly on a fire pillar.

[Arcanum]

Stability only determines how much stamina it costs to block a hit. I don't quite remember the specifics, but I believe I'd take damage even when blocking and if I didn't use a worse shield I'd "block" the two hits and die instead of just blocking one and getting knocked down on the ground.

Yeah and if your stability is high enough, your stamina won't be completely depleted by a single hit. And in DkS1 all the shields with high stability, save the Eagle Shield, blocked 100% physical damage, so you wouldn't be taking damage from the hit as long as your stamina isn't drained.

Even if you just blocked 90% of the damage, the remaining amount wouldn't be enough to 2 shot you, so I don't know what you were doing wrong but it was something.


Not to mention there's a chance you can just end the slide directly on a fire pillar.

I've never had that happen, especially since you can move left and right while sliding down. So unless you had the misfortune for there to be a literal wall of fire upon landing, it's not too hard to avoid landing in fire.

[Ryong]

wait, fuck, I remember what it was
since it sweeps from one side to the other and then again, you have to face the arms to block hits
but if I used a high stability shield I'd tank the first hit then get hit in the back and either die or take a ton of damage
but if I used a crappy shield I'd take the first hit and get knocked down and then not get hit by the other arm

I've never had that happen, especially since you can move left and right while sliding down. So unless you had the misfortune for there to be a literal wall of fire upon landing, it's not too hard to avoid landing in fire.

I've managed to land on a fire pillar that hadn't started yet then dodged right and took one of those attacks from the claws. I'm dead serious.

[Arcanum]

I've managed to land on a fire pillar that hadn't started yet then dodged right and took one of those attacks from the claws. I'm dead serious.

Should've dodged left :smug:

[Ryong]

Should've dodged left :smug:

I guess precognition is a required skill for Izalith, what with saving Solaire by not talking with him in several places to kill the bug that would possess him or knowing that you can open a shortcut by giving humanities to The Fair Lady.

[A Zarkin' Frood]

You can actually always talk to Solaire in every place and still save him. All you need to do is murder the bugs. Well, most likely only the one, but I never risked that. It's still not anything I'd ever have guessed on my own.

[Arcanum]

I feel like you aren't meant to save Solaire until NG+ or your second character. You run into him so often, and he helps you with so many boss fights that it's hard to not get attached to him. And then the game reminds you it's Dark Souls and forces you to kill a friend, or leave him to a fate that might be worse than death.

Then through trying to complete covenants, or simple curiosity, or hearing it from a friend or reading it online, you find out about the door, and you go the extra mile to save Solaire since the game almost forced you into knowing what would happen if you don't.

Also, to save him, all you have to do is kill the bugs before entering Lost Izalith (by which I mean walking far enough into the zone so that "Lost Izalith" pops up on your screen). As soon as that happens, the game checks to see if the bug is alive, and if it is then Solaire is doomed. Also I'm pretty sure you only need to kill the red-eyed bug that drops the Sunlight Maggot helm, but I kill all 9 (I think it's 9, can't remember) just to be safe.

[Bard The 5th LW]

I like how labyrinth Solaire's subplot is because it reminds me of myths and stuff I would used to read online about old games, with things like "Use strength on the truck by the S.S. Anne to catch Mew" or like "Beat the Final Boss of Majora's Mask [x] amount of times to get the title mask" only its actually true.

[Azisien]

Beat it on my main yesterday. Not very climatic and final bosses are rather easy. Took me about ~24 hours, which is significantly shorter than Dark Souls 1, though I have not created as many alts.

I came up with an analogy for the game. Dark Souls II is to Dark Souls I as Batman Arkham Origins is to Batman Arkham City. That's what I'm thinking as I reflect on the game. It's not really a linear improvement that a sequel should have, it's more of a rehash. The game's level design is on par, or even a little less inspiring than DS1. The game's arguably intriguing minimalist lore seems empty and obtuse to the point of not really being good, just forgettable. The game's core systems are perhaps a little polished, but more or less unchanged from DS1. Online works, and that's awesome, but online should have worked for DS: PTD edition anyway, so they fixed a broken thing. The bosses are almost all terrible. They are either outright lazy or rehashs of DS1 bosses. How many bosses had the exact same vertical/horizontal beam attacks?

Dark Souls II: Prepare to Strafe Right Edition!

So, did I hate it? Nah. I like Arkham Origins a lot actually, because I like the core gameplay. I'd say the same is true for Dark Souls II. Even though it is a shadow-copy of its predecessors, I still had a good time, and I'm still going to play co-op with friends now that that works.