The EU...

[Osterbaum]

Ok, so I made this thread mainly for the european members (if there are more than 3 :rolleyes: ), but offcourse others feel free to comment if you really know something about this. I wanted to discuss the on going parliament elections and the new member countries, but offcourse if someone has another topic in mind...? First, what do you think about the new members? Are there too many? Or don't you just like the countries in general?

[Splinter]

I think the EU is growing a bit too high-and-mighty, to be honest... I'm very unsure about how it has come to be such a powerful governmental force. I don't think it should have the right to dictate laws to all of its members states; not in the way that it does. Still, it does have benefits, but the benefits seem far more pronounced for less developed member countries than countries such as England and France, which benefit little certainly in terms of regeneration and social inclusion schemes.

[Osterbaum]

You hav a good point there. The EU seems also more and more like the US. And, no offense, but I find it mostly bad. Not because the US system here wouldn't work, but also cause it's good to have a bit difference governing systems etc. than just one or a few differen. I'm not talking about democracy and dictatorship now, so don't trie anything related to that. The EU does have benefits and not only for the bigger countries, but for the smaller ones as well. If there would be a vote of either keeping the EU or...not keeping it(right) I'd vote for keeping. You couldn't just take it away in one day, besides if countries are united the lesser change for war. That was one of te reasons the EU was first formed actually.

Splinter, on a side note: Where are you from?

[Squishy Cheeks]

The other reason being a common currency.

[Osterbaum]

The other reason being a common currency.

The euro? Thats like two years old. The EU itself is much more older than two years...

[Squishy Cheeks]

Yeah and it took a lot of time to actually agree to use the euro.

[Splinter]

And not all countries use it.

I think the EU itself does serve a purpose, but I can't help but feel its spending more time interfering in other countries affairs and wound up in beauracracy that its no longer fulfulling the purpose as well as it should. Oh, and I'm from England, Osterbaum. You?

[Osterbaum]

And not all countries use it.

I think it's Sweden and England only who don't use it. All of the new ones I think desided to use it.

Oh, and I'm from England, Osterbaum. You?

I'm from Finland and we do have the €.

And Jad Guy. Where are you from? Your location doesen't really say it. :D

[Squishy Cheeks]

North America, I'm just a fan of the E.U.

[Osterbaum]

North America, I'm just a fan of the E.U.

I thought you were from there. Why are you a fan of the EU? You would think the EU doesen't affect you that much. You are offcourse welcome to comment this subject nevertheless.

[Illuminatus]

I'm a fan of the EU, because someday it might grow powerful enough so that my fellow American's would have to get off their damn high horses and realize that there are other people in the world.

[Osterbaum]

There are other people in the world besides us europeans too. :D No really, I get your point.

It's allready pretty powerfull. The EU. Especially after the (wast it) 15 new members joined last month.

[FunnyLooking]

So, the EU is like the European NAFTA, right?

Does the EU have any problems like countries refusing to cooperate, like Bush messing up NAFTA? I'm kind of curious.

In fact, why doesn't NAFTA just use the Dollar, rather than Canadian, American, and Peso, etc.?

[Viper Daimao]

a few countries do use the dollar (the economic term is "dollarization", Panama has done if forever, Ecuador made the switch in '99, Agentina has been talking about it since '99, and Boliva has "defacto" done it), and others like china have their currency pegged to it. the problem is with interest rates. like, if america starts having inflation expectations (which we are slowly starting to have) then we will raise interest rates. this will make the dollar stronger against other currencies thus making our exports more expensive.

the problem for other countries who use the dollar is that when we raise or cut interest rates, its done without regard to their economy. so if we raise rates, make the dollar appreciate in value, then make their goods more expensive. then they loose tons of exports because of the increased cost of the foreign countries goods.

This has also been a slight problem for the EU. what if Spain say, has a financial crisis, and needs interest rates lowered? if the rest of the EU is doing well, they wont want to lower everyone's interest rates just for Spain.

What you want is symmetric shocks, and more homogenus economies and nations. Nobel Prize winning economist Robert Mundell called this an optimal currency area. to reach one, you need product market integration (do they buy and sell stuff to each other?), and factor market integration (does labor and capital flow freely from one country to another?). Certainly the EU has achieved product market integration. However most agree that Europe has not achieved factor market integration. It can be argued that capital flows fairly freely now, however there are still too many regulations on labor moving from one country to another and working there for it to be considered optimal.

The EU was supposed to take off and rival the economies of America and Japan, however, this didnt happen, as the big economies of Europe (namely France and Germany) experienced slow growth. This along with the fact that EU is not an optimal currency area.

[Osterbaum]

All you are saying there right now Viper is true. Many didn't support the € and some still don't, but they didnt hold an vote for it in almost any country unless they were certain of winning.

Does the EU have any problems like countries refusing to cooperate, like Bush messing up NAFTA? I'm kind of curious

It's like this: All countries have representatives in the parliament. Some country can use their veto in some cases if voting against it simply doesent help.

Melfice! You went and published the results early. Just saw it on the news. They are thinking here of charging (or something like that) you with some thing in the comissions next meeting.

[Omega Mage Zero]

This is a question from an uninformed American, but has there ever been talk of Canada joining the EU. I know they're in NAFTA, but couldn't they be in both? Maybe they're not IN Europe geographically, but culturally and in government Canada seems to have much more in common with Europe than it does with the US and Mexico.

[Osterbaum]

Canada joining the EU

Never gonna happen. Only European countries can join. There has been talk about Turkey joining cause they have a small bit thats part of europe, but they don't meet the othr standards.