Batman Vs. Superman was the worst superhero movie ever made

[Bard The 5th LW]

Just watched Batman vs. Superman and I was so disinterested in it that my soul almost left my body right there in the theatre.

Lets bitch about it on the internet so i can mentally justify having seen it.

First up: I understood absolutely no one's motivations for anything.

Batman apparently kills people now and wants to kill Superman because Superman is really really tough and Batman doesn't want to live in a world where people are stronger than him. This version of Batman apparently isn't a thinking man at all and has no interest in sparing anyone and even though he thinks Superman is a danger to everyone for destroying all of Metropolist (which is legit), he goes ahead and does the same exact thing, launching his fucking tank car wherever he pleases and also blowing things up wherever he goes.At one point he crashes his car through a building and then breaks out the other wall just to hit the car on the other side. How did he know no one was in there? How did he know the car he wanted to hit would make that turn? He is such a bad superhero its astounding. He shows no willingness to make any sort of compromise with Superman, he just wants to prove he's the biggest kid on the playground. Apparently though, after a whole movie of being on a fucking termination spree, all it takes for him to spare superman is to learn that their moms have the same name. Then their besties because that makes sense.

Then there's Lex Luther. Oh boy. Aside from making him fucking Martin Shkreli with longer hair and some sort of mental disorder, literally nothing he does makes sense. At no point did the movie ever give me a reason to think he had any motivation at all aside from like, destroying the world because he was bored? I know he's the villain, but he has nothing that made him interesting to even a little bit. Every second of the movie that no one was killing him was SO exhausting. Why did he want to kill Superman? Why did he want to kill Batman? How did he learn their secret identities? How did he somehow know everything both of them would do forever? Why? How? Uggggh.

And then they have the stupid ass edit at the end where Batman leaves the fucking funeral for the man no one in the audience believes is dead only to go NOT punch him in the face and then come BACK to the funeral which is still somehow happening because why fucking not. Sure! Don't give us any catharsis for the character we don't like at all!

What the fuck did he want out of that? To kill everyone? Because that's the only thing I can extrapolate; he just wanted to end the world because he was bored or because OH NOES THE CRAZIES which is a pretty fucked up attitude to take towards the mentally ill.

Second: I didn't like any of the characters. There was nothing in this movie to make me care for them at all.

I was emotionally numb for this entire film. Everything was nonsense and I just. couldn't. care. When the film FINALLY got to the fight it promised it still failed to make me care because it had no stakes. Batman and Superman literally did nothing to eachother. At no point did either combatant leave a significant mark or injury on one another until the very end when only the most cosmetic shit goes down. They proceed to go the rest of the movie without any consequence from that fight. They're neither tired nor injured. It was pointless as the rest of the film.

Third: It was so fucking long.

Uggggggh goddammit DC I know you want to make your own Avengers but fuuuuuuuuck just let that movie happen when it happens. Wonder Woman plays the most extraneous and stupid role possible in this film. She does nothing of value. No. Don't try to convince me she was important to that last fight or any scene at all. I could've digitally removed her from the whole movie and rewrote the fight with Doomsday in five minutes to just be Batman distracting him until Superman finished the job. Nothing she did was important enough to warrant her and the subplot about the other superheroes was also completely irrelevant to the actual conflict of the film.

You know what makes a good movie? Not setting up movies we won't see for another 2 yeas. Just make the movie you're at now and let those movies set themselves up like a GOOD film.

You can't even say that they gave people a reason to be afraid of Superman; Zod already filled that narrative purpose. He was the Boogie man that gave people a reason to fear superman and possible people like him. The Superheroes that weren't Superman or Batman contributed nothing to this movie aside from padding out its already bloated length and making me watch a dumb movie for longer than I had too.

Also they shove so many fakeout dream sequences/hallucinations into this movie that I feel like Batman and Superman shouldn't be given any responsibility at all. Also is Batman like, the Oracle at Delphi? What was even with that scene after his Mad Max styled vision of the future? It made no sense and there was no effort to explain it. And I'm still not done.

Fourth: This was perhaps the most pretentious destruction porn I've ever watched.

This movie begins by doing something ALMOST interesting by replaying the fight between Superman and Zod from a street view, using Bruce Wayne's perspective. Even though he's Batman, he's still just a dude and you get to see the impact of a mindless action film like Man of Steel from the ground level and it actually gives you a sense of context for why Batman might dislike Superman before he ends up just doing all of the exact same shit.

The movie actually opens making you think its going to own up to all the shit Superman did in the last movie instead of pretending that his Godzilla inspired rampage across the city was fine and that the whole place was fixed an afternoon later the way Man of Steel did. It does not follow through on this promise AT ALL. God forbid the hero maybe be forced to feel long term moral weight of his actions.

Like, Superman NEVER does ANYTHING to warrant legitimately changing Batman's mind about him. Nothing. He reveals he has a mom. That's it. Furthermore, the movie never comes to any sort of CONCLUSION about Superman and what it means for him to exist. Like, I don't even mean they leave it up to the audience; they just blow up more shit and forget that they asked that question.

Because the movie spends its buildup trying to pretend its going to deconstruct destructionporn action movies and then just becomes a destruction porn action movie. Legitimately, they just start destroying buildings again as though the first half of that movie never happened. Then the military gets in on it by launching a nuke over what is basically New York because that'd be fine, right? No one would get cancer from that radiation at all nu-uh. They do it in fucking seconds too. Like, there was NO waiting for them to fire that missile, its like they just wanted to do it because they were bored.

"Oh holy shit Superman is taking the monster to space as though he doesn't want to destroy the city."

"Oh okay sweet lets launch a nuclear bomb at them and fuck things up."

"Lol okay."

Its kind of a pet peeve of mine how readily the army fires nukes in both movies and videogames. As though there's like, no oversight or alternative AT ALL that ANYONE could suggest. Like, oh, I don't know, all the oversights that the USA and USSR put into place to stop themselves from pointlessly firing nukes during a little 45 year long period called the Cold War. Nah, you just got to press a few buttons. And there's not going to be ANY lasting consequences ever at all.

And the way they brush aside all the destruction is hilarious. "Oh no that building full of empty was just destroyed!" Yeah okay, no one is in a highly populated urban center at night. Everyone has gone home to their countryside haciendas for the night. There's no such thing as a graveyard shift or cleaning people at all ever. Its fine guys, its fine.

The movie's attempts to brush aside all the deaths that were surely happening in Metropolis and Gotham were so laughable that I legitimately expected Batman to say that Superman got sent to the Shadow Realm at the funeral scene.

Now someone tell me they liked it so I can tell them I hate them.

[Aerozord]

FOr point one, apparently there is a rumor the Joker was supposed to be in the movie too and they just mashed them together and thats why his personality jumps around so much. I mean thats stupid on a base level because they are VERY different characters. The whole idea of them being effective together is because they bring each other ideas that they wouldn't think of.

But I knew this would be bad the moment the called it Batman vs Superman. Thats not a plot, that isn't even a title, thats a marketing ploy. Thats someone going "hey fanboys talk about this all the time lets do that." It cant really work if for no reason but the fact they both are pretty strict on the "dont kill" thing and you have to severely gimp Superman for it to work. And I mean to the point of character destruction.

[Bard The 5th LW]

FOr point one, apparently there is a rumor the Joker was supposed to be in the movie too and they just mashed them together and thats why his personality jumps around so much. I mean thats stupid on a base level because they are VERY different characters. The whole idea of them being effective together is because they bring each other ideas that they wouldn't think of.

My little brother theorized that in the movie itself and it seems likely. I'm not like, HUGELY familiar with the DC universe (I've only ever consistently watched the Animated shows/films), but Lex is usually like, controlled, intelligent, and at least a little bit charismatic. This Lex Luthor was just tiresome; like, he never did anything on screen to make me think he was smart. It just felt like he arbitrarily knew everything without having to do any work for that knowledge and also everyone else was really dumb at the same time.

[Nique]

Superman is a character close to my heart. That doesn't give me any special insight into the character or anything, but it made watching this film actually emotionally difficult for me.

Maybe the worst sin is the wasted potential. Affleck was good! Cavil was good! They inhabit these characters well. But the film is still awful. How do you even manage that?

Snyder also forced totally such totally uncharacteristically violent, mean-spirited, irrational bullying and also actual murder onto characters who were otherwise trying to do good both in this universe and in literally every other interpretation of the characters, I was literally in tears during the titular fight when in became clear that it was Snyder's intent that BATMAN'S intent was to actually just kill Superman. I've never seen these two characters be THIS adversarial.

[Kyanbu The Legend]

I'm just sitting here wondering, how in the world did they manage to botch this movie? Especially with all the source material they have access to for reference sake. Even if they wanted to go with darker versions of Bats and Sups, they still some how end up botching it by not go through with that interpretation.

This could have been a great film... oh well looks like the DC Cinema curse continues.

[Solid Snake]

The asshole Marvel fanboy in me is excited that this means I'll get to see something I never imagined possible in my lifetime: A year in which Iron Man and Captain America kicked Superman and Batman's asses with critics and in the box office.

I mean, do you know how implausible that would've seemed like, a decade ago? Back in the height of my Avengers fan days I was just kind of like, "Yeah, they're always going to seem like the B-league to the Justice Team to most people." It was practically an act of hipster-esque contrarianism that led me to knee-jerkingly defend Captain America as a better character than Superman, or desperately trying to defend Daredevil as a character independently of Affleck's awful portrayal.

Now it's like I live in this Bizzaro-world universe where the real world's going into Donald Trump-led dystopian bullshit, while the world of comics has finally seen the light and accepted Marvel's innate superiority. Was it worth sacrificing our world to see fiction sorted out properly? Alas, probably not, but at least I'll be able to act like a pretentious douchebag about Batman and Superman being as terrible as I always envisioned them once I'm in prison after Trump locks me up as a political dissident.

[Bum Bill Bee]

Man, if this was supposed to be the launching point for about 10 films or so, they're off to a god awful start! Aside from the upcoming Wonder Woman film, which would be the first solo-woman superhero film since whenever that Supergirl one was made, I can't imagine how they could effectively promote any future films from this line, with the first two being so detested.


I mean granted, no one today really remembers much about Ironman 1, which kickstarted the MCU, and its fallen behind the other installments, but it DID have to be liked to start off the MCU, which it accomplished in its time.

[MSperoni]

Marvel isn't innately superior. Each company goes back and forth. Marvel is winning now, but it hasn't always been that way and it will change eventually. Marvel was pretty shit till the X-men saved them in the mid 70s, and then carried them into the 80s and 90s.

In my unprofessional opinion, DC's problem is they can't take a crap without stamping a Batman logo on it. They have a lot of other cool properties that aren't Batman but for some reason they won't do anything with them. I've seen them try, and when they try they make really good efforts, but then a month later there's another Big Batman Event that drowns everything else out.

Here's hoping this "Dawn of Justice" will lead to better and brighter things, but DC's gotta shake off the Bat. Not only as a character, but also as a tone. Even Superman has been swallowed up in Batman's grimdarkness.

Marvel's amazing for the risks they take and the properties they're willing to establish and dump wads of cash into. Can you imagine DC ever making a "Guardians of the Galaxy" level property into a movie?

Shit, if Avengers was B-rated then I don't even wanna think what GoG was. C-rated? D-rated?

Regardless, Marvel's willingness to establish and run with new properties allows them to have Captain America stay Captain America. They don't need him to cop an attitude to appeal to assholes, or pick up a gun to appeal to adult audiences. They have other characters for that.

DC though? It's Batman all the time. 24/7/365 Batman. Batman has the burden of appealing to everyone. Based on box-office figures, he does pretty well. However it's only Batman. Batman may be DC's ace, but that's all they got and all they're willing to play with. Yes, BvS is killing it at the box office but I'm talking long-term strategy here. DC's goal is to win against Marvel, and they can't do that with a single movie built around one character (they can say what they want, but this comes across as another Batman movie to me).

You'd like to think Superman could bring about a tonal variation that sets his movies apart from the Batman films, but not even the Man of Steel can break free from the shadow of the bat. I wish the Christopher Reeve Superman would show up and save us from what we got now. Wouldn't that be great? That classic music starts playing and he shows up and is like "Guys...just...settle down, okay?"

But I digress.

The best comics out of the New 52 that I read were Swamp Thing, Animal Man, the first 35 issues of Wonder Woman, and Aquaman. They were all Batman free, tonally different, and pretty great.

But then something happened. The creative teams shifted, Convergence started, and then...DK3.

Look, I dunno, maybe it wasn't that bad but I stepped away from DC for awhile and am only now finding my way back to them. I got absolutely zero interest in DK3 and trust Miller with Wonder Woman like I trust a doctor with razor-blades for fingers to give me a testicular examination. (though I do like the Carrie Kelley Robin)

Speaking of Frank Miller: AFIK Batman wasn't a top seller for DC till the post-Miller era. Up until then it was Teen Titans and Legion of Superheroes.

And speaking of Teen Titans: The Teen Titans animated series seems to be the most universally appealing thing DC has produced in years, yet you look at the comics and the roster isn't the same and it's boring as hell and confusing. Not to mention it's way too adult. It's also stuck on Robin because...y'know...DC can't take a crap without stamping a Batman logo on it.

Mark my words: if DC ever did a TT comic that had the roster and tone of the animated series and were willing to downplay Robin (who seems to be the least favorite character of everyone I talk to who watches the show or has kids who watch the show)...they'd have 'em a hit.

which would be the first solo-woman superhero film since whenever that Supergirl one was made

There was also Elektra and the Halle Berry Catwoman film.

Unless you're omitting those because you've blocked them from your memory.

(I actually kinda liked the Elektra movie though)

[Solid Snake]

Marvel isn't innately superior.

On an objective, rational level, as a human being who is capable of reasonable and impartial thought, I agree with your statement. It would be foolish to disagree with such a statement.

On a subjective, personal level, fuck DC, always fuck DC, Marvel's always been better, I hate the Justice whatever they're called, I wish there was some DC vs. Marvel Superhero movie that I could watch where all the Marvel heroes and heroines just beat the everloving crap out of their DC counterparts, and DC fans have terrible taste in everything ever made.

EDIT:
Man, if this was supposed to be the launching point for about 10 films or so, they're off to a god awful start!

I mean, sure, as critics and fans of the genre, we can attack DC as being off to a 'god-awful start.'
But given how Batman vs. Superman is doing at the box office, I highly doubt DC gives a shit. If the crappy movie makes plenty of money, can we really say they're off to an 'awful start?' Artistically sure, but there's still every incentive to keep making Justice League movies.
You see, I was hoping for a scenario where both the critical and the financial reception would've been so astoundingly bad that DC would've just conceded outright, publicly admitted that Batman and Superman have always been atrocities against the comic book industry, and cried themselves softly to sleep each night at how Iron Man and Captain America have stolen everything they've loved and cherished.

EDIT 2: Wonder Woman and Supergirl are all right, though, and so is the Flash.
So maybe instead of being a raving fanboy frothing at the mouth at everything DC's ever done, I'm just a raving fanboy who hates everything DC's ever done that involves male characters who can't run very fast.

[Bard The 5th LW]

The trailer for the Lego Batman movie played right before this one started and I legitimately enjoyed all 2 minutes of it more than I enjoyed maybe anything in the 2 and a half hour runtime of the actual movie.

I guess Holly Hunter was okay? I liked Ben Affleck's Bruce Wayne and his Batman at the start but as the movie wore on I grew to dislike him as much as everyone else.

[mauve]

DC shoehorns Batman into everything because The Dark Knight was fairly groundbreaking for a superhero movie and it basically revitalized the genre. It revitalized Batman's popularity as well. DC's problem is that rather than attempt new ways to appeal to audiences or stay on the cutting edge, they just endlessly try to play off of Dark Knight's success. Everything is dark and gritty and vaguely nihilistic and filmed in muted colors. And Batman is there, because remember how cool Batman was in Dark Knight?

See how dark and gritty and edgy Batman vs Superman looks? Just like Dark Knight! We know we don't have a real compelling story like Dark Knight, but think how HARDCORE and edgy it is to have Supes and Bats hate each other! We don't need reasons if we have Batman!

See how edgy Suicide Squad looks? It's dark and pushing the envelope, just like Dark Knight! There's too many characters to be able to have any real focus or development for most of them, and they're all villains so it's not like we can do much here, but it's got The Joker, just like The Dark Knight!

See also: Wonder Woman movie promo picture, Aquaman redesign.

Don't get me wrong: I love Batman WHEN HE IS WELL-WRITTEN. But the Batman overload is tedious and dumb. There are other heroes, just like there are villains other than Joker (guess who still hasn't forgiven Arkham Origins?).

To DC's credit, this seems to apply mostly to their film offerings. I've heard very good things about their recent TV shows.

[Aerozord]

Part of their fear is probably because going from dark and gritty into the more camp silliness is what has repeatedly killed their franchises in the 80s and 90s. Which, to them, was proven right when they went back to dark and edgy Batman.

Is this a mistake? Of course it is, its a man dressing up as a bat running around fighting a clown. Marvel has been doing well because it realizes the need for a note of tongue-in-cheek comedy. You can have drama, seriousness, but the genre is based on the absurd and over the top.

WB are the only ones that dont seem to get this. X-men, Spider-man, regardless of the over all quality they do know not to take themselves too seriously.

Some of this might be my personal bias, I mean I was not a fan of the dark knight.

[mauve]

I'm honestly more optimistic about The Lego Batman Movie than I am about the entire Justice League series at this point.

Because the Lego Movie was actually fun.

[rpgdemon]

I used to not give a crap about DC at all. Superman? More like Super BLAND. Batman? More like "I wanna hit this guy with a bat, man". Then I had this weird feedback loop where Marvel led me into watching DC shows because I had just watched, like, one of their movies, and wanted more superhero goodness, and my roommates were watching Arrow, so I watched that.

Arrow had me caring about certain characters, but then I got into Young Justice via my roommates, that was the show that really got me into DC characters actually being pretty cool. It's all the sidekicks on their own team, and it's pretty awesome. Highly recommend it.

I know Snake will like it - Greg Weisman headed it up, aka the guy behind Spectacular Spiderman.

[Gregness]

Man, this thread is full of people who didn't come up on the DCAU, apparently.

People think Superman is boring because people keep getting it wrong on what exactly the good superman stories are. General Zod and the dark mirror bullshit? Nope. I can think of an interesting way to handle it, but it always devolves to flying around and punching each other through buildings. For me, the interesting Superman stories are the ones that discuss how Superman is a hero in spite of his power, not because of it.

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[Aerozord]

No one is saying Superman is a bad character... ok Snake is but we are saying is THIS Superman is horrible. Kinda, I mean he's not good but its really the script thats bad. Now this version of Batman yea he's bad even in a vacuum.

Batman suffers from the Chuck Norris effect where people treat the memed version of a character as the actual reflection of him. The infalliable unbeatable Batman that is so ingrained in fandom its taken as fact. Which is still possible to do but you have to be really REALLY good to pull it off. See Batman: The Brave & The Bold

[Bard The 5th LW]

The DCAU is literally the only media DC puts out I've ever given a shit about maybe with the exception of Arkham Asylum/City, and I still did not care for this movie's superman even a little bit.

[Token]

On a subjective, personal level, fuck DC, always fuck DC, Marvel's always been better, I hate the Justice whatever they're called, I wish there was some DC vs. Marvel Superhero movie that I could watch where all the Marvel heroes and heroines just beat the everloving crap out of their DC counterparts, and DC fans have terrible taste in everything ever made.


Tough talk coming from a brony.

[mauve]

Tough talk coming from a brony.

OOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHH!! FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT!

Seriously though some of the DC Animated Universe stuff is pretty fantastic.. I can't speak for all the new movies, but in terms of classic stuff, Batman: the Animated Series and Batman: Brave and the Bold were great, and I remember Justice League Unlimited having some really good episodes too. Currently DC's got some good shorts up on their youtube channel, showing off a variety of art styles and character reimaginings. The Deadman shorts are fun, and Animal Man, Plastic Man and even some of the DC Farm League's shorts can be legitimately funny. Not everything in the DCAU is good, but there are some really standout works there.

[Aerozord]

Plus DC was involved in the greatest crossover ever.
ac9ZxPHjBdU

[Solid Snake]

Tough talk coming from a brony.

Haven't been a brony in years; haven't even watched the show since, I think, 2013?
But I thought it was pretty clear that I was fessin' up to being a biased raving Marvel fanboy there. Objectively speaking, DC is fine; I just got into Marvel first, in the same way that I got into Playstation instead of XBox

[mauve]

Plus DC was involved in the greatest crossover ever.
ac9ZxPHjBdU

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Aerozord again."

Seriously though I forgot how awesome that short was. I remember seeing it back when it was originally on TV.

[Tev]

Apparently though, after a whole movie of being on a fucking termination spree, all it takes for him to spare superman is to learn that their moms have the same name. Then their besties because that makes sense. That can't be true right? Like, that seems so not possible and easily checkable that I'm going to go look that up right now...

Lara (née Lara Lor-Van) is a fictional character who appears in Superman comics published by DC Comics. Lara is the biological mother of Superman, and the wife of scientist Jor-El. Lara Lor-Van is Lara's full maiden name, as "Lor-Van" is the name of Lara's father.[1][2] Most depictions of Kryptonian culture show that Kryptonian women use their father's full name as their last names before marriage. After marriage, they usually are known simply by their first names, though various versions show they use their husband's full name or last name as their married last name.[3][4]

Martha Wayne (née Martha Kane)[2] is a fictional character of the Batman series of comic books, published by DC Comics. She is Bruce Wayne's mother and Dr. Thomas Wayne's wife. When she and her husband are murdered during a holdup, her son swears to avenge their deaths by fighting crime and fulfills this as Batman.[3]

That's what I thought. How does something like this go so wrong?

EDIT: Or did they mean Martha Kent? Because I actually never noticed that, but it is still silly.

[Arcanum]

Wrong mom, Tev. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_and_Martha_Kent)

e- aaannnd your edit makes my post obsolete. Screw it, I'm leaving it.

[Bard The 5th LW]

That can't be true right? Like, that seems so not possible and easily checkable that I'm going to go look that up right now...

Lara (née Lara Lor-Van) is a fictional character who appears in Superman comics published by DC Comics. Lara is the biological mother of Superman, and the wife of scientist Jor-El. Lara Lor-Van is Lara's full maiden name, as "Lor-Van" is the name of Lara's father.[1][2] Most depictions of Kryptonian culture show that Kryptonian women use their father's full name as their last names before marriage. After marriage, they usually are known simply by their first names, though various versions show they use their husband's full name or last name as their married last name.[3][4]

Martha Wayne (née Martha Kane)[2] is a fictional character of the Batman series of comic books, published by DC Comics. She is Bruce Wayne's mother and Dr. Thomas Wayne's wife. When she and her husband are murdered during a holdup, her son swears to avenge their deaths by fighting crime and fulfills this as Batman.[3]

That's what I thought. How does something like this go so wrong?

EDIT: Or did they mean Martha Kent? Because I actually never noticed that, but it is still silly.

It's mamma Kent. As some point out, this COULD have been an interesting plot point, but to me it just seems so contradictory to the way Batman acts towards Supes for the rest of the movie. And it doesn't just lead to Batman showing mercy; he is legitimately dedicated to Superman from that point onwards in the film.

[Nikose Tyris]

This movie was such a waste of money that I nearly walked out in the first 30 minutes to demand my money back. (My wife made me stay).

As I have expressed elsewhere, see a different movie. See no movie. Huff the crusty air from a jar of fecal matter in a misguided attempt to get high, and you'll have a better time than you will watching this movie.

I was hoping for a garbage B movie, and what I got was a reminder why Snyder shouldn't be making movies.

Edit: The only positive things in the entire movie were Wonder Woman, Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman Cameos.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Edit: The only positive things in the entire movie were Wonder Woman, Flash, Cyborg and Aquaman Cameos.


I felt those just dragged the whole thing out. Every time the perspective switched to Wonder Woman I just wanted to scream "GET ON WITH IT". I hate how modern movies are so obsessed with setting up sequels like, a year before they happen.

edit: I suppose I would be interested in seeing a standalone Cyborg movie, however, if its in the right hands and really is standalone.

[Nikose Tyris]

Honestly I'm so starved for quality Wonder Woman content that it was the real reason my wife and I went to the movie. What we got of Ms. Prince gives me some hope for that at least.

And hopefully Snyder will spontaneously combust from karmic overload of awful movies and someone else will write and direct a Wonder Woman movie.

[RickZarber]

And hopefully Snyder will spontaneously combust from karmic overload of awful movies and someone else will write and direct a Wonder Woman movie.

Well I've got some good news (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0451279/?ref_=nv_sr_1) and some bad news...

[Nikose Tyris]

Well I've got some good news (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0451279/?ref_=nv_sr_1) and some bad news...

He's a producer. I think that'll make this okay.

But honestly if Jay Mewes wrote Batman v Superman he would have made something worth the $12 ticket price. Or Matt Damon. Or Ben Affleck.

If Kevin Smith did a 72 hour writing challenge to write a batman v superman movie script it would have been better than this.

[Tev]

This entertained me.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/78d260fc07c600672bc3b17982da3894/tumblr_inline_o4x2h3ehiq1sukf5g_500.png

[MSperoni]

If Kevin Smith did a 72 hour writing challenge to write a batman v superman movie script it would have been better than this.

It'd be a two hour slice-of-life picture with Batman and Superman making banal observations about things. Like they'd talk about what it means to be a lesbian or the politicization of global warming or being bipolar or something. While sitting it a cafe. Then Wonder Woman would show up played by Sarah Silverman or Alanis Morissette and shit all over everything they just discussed then leave and then they'd spend the rest of the movie talking about her. Someone would be smoking a cigarette the entire time.

So it'd be like a more entertaining version of 90% of Kevin Smith's movies (I liked Clerks!).

[Gregness]

So it'd be like a more entertaining version of 90% of Kevin Smith's movies (I liked Clerks!).


Dogma was amazing.

[Nikose Tyris]

It'd be a two hour slice-of-life picture with Batman and Superman making banal observations about things. Like they'd talk about what it means to be a lesbian or the politicization of global warming or being bipolar or something. While sitting it a cafe. Then Wonder Woman would show up played by Sarah Silverman or Alanis Morissette and shit all over everything they just discussed then leave and then they'd spend the rest of the movie talking about her. Someone would be smoking a cigarette the entire time.

So it'd be like a more entertaining version of 90% of Kevin Smith's movies (I liked Clerks!).

Well that was kind of the point. I was naming not so hot writers who've made garbage before that was less awful garbage than this.

And Dogma was high art.

[mauve]

This entertained me.

http://41.media.tumblr.com/78d260fc07c600672bc3b17982da3894/tumblr_inline_o4x2h3ehiq1sukf5g_500.png

So it WAS going to be a shitty movie because it was gonna be too dark and "edgy."

NOW it's going to be a shitty movie because it'll be hastily rewritten and cobbled together over the course of a few months.

Good to know.

[Aerozord]

So it WAS going to be a shitty movie because it was gonna be too dark and "edgy."

NOW it's going to be a shitty movie because it'll be hastily rewritten and cobbled together over the course of a few months.

Good to know.

pretty sure it was an April Fools prank. But since its a DC movie I would be more surprised if it was a fun movie instead of dark and edgy.

Now from what little I know of Suicide Squad it was a very dark and edgy series originally cause it was the dark age of comics, but the version people speak highly of, the modern one, its a more light hearted afair.

[Token]

pretty sure it was an April Fools prank. But since its a DC movie I would be more surprised if it was a fun movie instead of dark and edgy.

Now from what little I know of Suicide Squad it was a very dark and edgy series originally cause it was the dark age of comics, but the version people speak highly of, the modern one, its a more light hearted afair.

yeah you are like
dead dead wrong there brohemian rhapsody

the original suicide squad was dark, yeah, but it wasn't an edgy gorefest. Ostrander's run is one of the best works in all of comics, as is usually the case when he's writing. It wasn't cheerful by any means, but the crapfest the modern run has been up until the new writer took over wishes it could be anywhere near as poignant as the original.

Anyone who's speaking highly of the new 52 is an absolute wanker. Even at its best, it was only ever not-awful.

ON A SIMILAR VEIN, Gail Simone's '05 run of Secret Six draws quite a bit from Ostrander's Suicide Squad, and is honestly a much better SS than current SS. Strongly recommended for everyone.

EDIT: i mean like come on 80's squad gave us oracle okay it turned pointless darkness and one of the worst cases of fridging into an amazing character

EDIT EDIT: i mean CHRIST

[Aerozord]

Was that the run that gave Captain Boomerang a freakin character arc or was that something else?

[mauve]

pretty sure it was an April Fools prank. But since its a DC movie I would be more surprised if it was a fun movie instead of dark and edgy.

Now from what little I know of Suicide Squad it was a very dark and edgy series originally cause it was the dark age of comics, but the version people speak highly of, the modern one, its a more light hearted afair.

April Fools or not, it's still gonna be a shitty movie.

'Course, I'm heavily biased in that I hate Harley Quinn with a burning passion in about 99% of things I've seen her in. She is the absolute worst.

[Tev]

http://45.media.tumblr.com/ba835717a7c82239d6d1be69e295883e/tumblr_o4oxakcOUP1snbzkeo1_r1_400.gif

I think I could watch this for two hours instead of BvS...

[rpgdemon]

Poor Pikasupes. :(

[Shyria Dracnoir]

Yeah, you gotta at least include the bit where they hug

[Magus]

I liked it a lot.

Most of the complaints about Superman seem to stem from critics ignoring everything written about the character post-1986. The character in film has never been reinterpreted like Batman has. People are still basing their assumptions on the Christopher Reeve rendition of the character, which was simply repeated in 2004 in Superman Returns. This is only the second interpretation of the character in film, ever. With Batman, we had Burton, Schumacher, and Nolan interpreting the character before. Despite the killing, I guarantee this is part of the reason people are still excited for a solo Batman film starring Affleck but some people are very down on an interpretation of Superman that is conflicted or unsure of his place in the world (and is depowered to a John Byrne or Superman: The Animated Series level).

The Suicide Squad reshoots were scheduled far in advance of BvS coming out, and the idea that the motive behind the reshoots is to shoehorn in humor is baseless speculation on the part of Devin Faraci of Birth.Movies.Death. He contends he has a single "reliable source" on that particular aspect, whereas he had several sources for the fact that it is having reshoots.

Many films have reshoots and the motivation behind them is merely speculation at this point until someone has more than one anonymous source.

EDIT: To talk about some of the stuff Bard brought up with Batman:

The character is framed as having gone off the deep end after Metropolis. By the end of the film he has found his humanity again, realizing he was about to become Joe Chill and destroy a family, and decides to rededicate himself to his ideals, by choosing not to brand Luthor and choosing to found the Justice League to honor Superman..

[Bard The 5th LW]

I have never extensively watched the Christopher Reeves Superman movies nor read the comics. I come from a nearly uncolored perspective (barring the DCAU) when I say I didn't like this movie because it was just a poorly constructed wreck.

e: Like, Superman's values and beliefs just strike me as completely backwards and bizarre. He openly expresses no regret or remorse for the destruction of Metropolis which he arguably could have averted, but then he DOES legitimately feel bad when SOME OTHER DUDE blows up a building he happened to be standing in. The movie tries to ask what it'd be like if Superman really existed in our world and never comes back around to ACTUALLY addressing the question in an interesting or thoughtful way because its easier to just have Superman and Batman fight a cave troll from Lord of the Rings and have us all pretend that Superman died.

[Magus]

I agree it has poor construction, the first hour is poorly edited, and has bad pacing (especially when it comes to a complete stand-still to insert things that in a Marvel movie would be stinger material for the credits). It appeals to much to fans already familiar with DC instead of being made for a general audience, which is a bad idea for a movie that is a 250 million dollar tentpole film that is supposed to be drawing millions of people into a larger universe.

And even within the fanbase, purposefully drawing on The Dark Knight Returns for the characterization of Batman, even if you intend to alter it by the end of the film, is a polarizing decision at best.

I disagree regarding Superman's culpability, I think his issue with feeling conflicted is that he is continuously blamed for things he has no control over, and that no matter what he does there will be a ripple effect that hurts people somewhere due to his intervention (this is touched on, although probably not enough, in the scene where he talks to his dad's ghost or memory or whatever on the mountain top and his dad talks about how diverting a flood away from their farm made him feel like a hero as a child, but then he found out it had simply washed away the next farm upriver). But I don't know how convincing that argument is for you or other people who contend that he is the one responsible for Metropolis suffering so much destruction at the end of Man of Steel instead of Zod.

I think he felt bad about the bombing because as far as he and everyone else (including Batman--this was part of Batman's motivation as well) knew, it was aimed at killing him. No one realized it was actually Luthor until the end of the film.

I think you're right in that it doesn't fully explore "what would it be like if Superman were in our world?", but it explored that somewhat, even if only to get to the extent that he would be ostracized in the media and a polarizing figure that people would take sides about.

[Premmy]

Dear everyone But Token and Matt talking about DC characters. You can just talk about the movie. You can just do that. The movie has enough to criticize without ya'll failing to know what you're talking about.

[Magus]

Dear everyone But Token and Matt talking about DC characters. You can just talk about the movie. You can just do that. The movie has enough to criticize without ya'll failing to know what you're talking about.

Hey, I know plenty about Detective Comics Comics characters, including their best-selling character, the Bat-Man. Did you see him use his gyrocopter to fight those monster men last issue? It was a real humdinger!

[Token]

like honestly the movie has flaws ain't no one disputing that

But the characterization really isn't one of them. They might not be the ones you remember from the cartoons, or even from the comics you were reading at the time, but lemme just quote past me here

but everyone has their own opinions on how dc characters should act because they grew up on wildly successful and acclaimed interpretations like the DCAU and (loathe though i am to admit it) nolan’s trilogy

does anyone even remember the fucking avengers cartoon from the nineties like damn that shit was awful

and so people get cranky when lex luthor isn’t some physically imposing badass businessman or batman isn’t objectively the best thing ever or wonder woman exists

but i guess that’s just one of those things you have to deal with when your characters have been in the public consciousness long enough to have multiple incarnations and interpretations!

Every incarnation of DC is different, and honestly this is one of the better ones. Would I have preferred a straight Superman sequel? Absolutely. But complaining about "not muh supes" is a waste of time when we can discuss real issues like "cutting important scenes and context" or "not enough KGBeast"

[Bard The 5th LW]

I think no one's motivations particularly made sense and half the characters came across as mindless hypocrites (BATMAN). He can kill people, fine, but it seems like he's SUPER DOWN with mindlessly destroying the scenery, which makes his ire at Superman pretty misguided.

Sure, you can make characters different for new stories, I don't mind. But literally nothing that Lex Luther did made any sense to me from any angle possible. What was he trying to achieve? Did he... just want to destroy the world? Why? If not, what was his contingency plan for Doomsday. Why even have Batman fight Superman if he was just going to create Doomsday.

Superman was mostly okay I guess, but like he's pretty quick to kill people too. Like that guy holding Lois hostage at the start, or the part where he basically tossed the Batmobile. How'd he know Batman wouldn't get fucked up in the process? Why did he let the dude's Batman was chasing go free? You can argue that Superman just has no problem with killing in this universe like Batman, but then why was he so upset at killing Zod last movie? If he can just get violent at the drop of a hat like that, why didn't he just murder Zod right from the word go in Man of Steel?

[Aerozord]

Issue with Superman killing isn't the character or moral issues (though that does bother me personally) its the narrative issue. Because of Superman's power the story suddenly becomes alot more like Death Note. He can find, go to, and murder nearly any human being with relative ease. Society would begin to change as you suddenly have a very real and physical deity of justice executing any that he feels earns it. Even if its completely reasonable uses of that power it psychologically affects people. Superman becomes the boogy-man "be a good boy or Superman will come get you."

The reason his comics work is because he has morality as a limiting factor. He doesn't view himself as having the right to kill, to impose his ethical beliefs on others. So he just neutralizes threats and lets others decide. Its the basis of our entire criminal justice system.

[Magus]

Sure, you can make characters different for new stories, I don't mind. But literally nothing that Lex Luther did made any sense to me from any angle possible. What was he trying to achieve? Did he... just want to destroy the world? Why? If not, what was his contingency plan for Doomsday. Why even have Batman fight Superman if he was just going to create Doomsday.


Well clearly the "Communion" scene that was cut and which WB put up after the first weekend in seeming response to some of the complaints should have been in the movie, since that explains why his endgame alters from simply trying to turn the public against Superman to using Doomsday to try and kill him. Apparently the assumption was that we were all psychic or would pay closer attention to his ending speech (and know what that signifies).

The movie assumes too much. It assumes the viewer is steeped in DC lore. It caters too much to the fans instead of trying to appeal to a broader base of the general public.

[Premmy]

Well clearly the "Communion" scene that was cut and which WB put up after the first weekend in seeming response to some of the complaints should have been in the movie, since that explains why his endgame alters from simply trying to turn the public against Superman to using Doomsday to try and kill him. Apparently the assumption was that we were all psychic or would pay closer attention to his ending speech (and know what that signifies).

The movie assumes too much. It assumes the viewer is steeped in DC lore. It caters too much to the fans instead of trying to appeal to a broader base of the general public.

Doomsday is literally Plan B. He even says as much. Lex Luthor's Plan is to get Batman and Superman to fight/Kill each other. That's like, all there is.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Then why the hell was he making Doomsday during the time they were fighting.

Why does he want them to kill eachother so badly.

[Grandmaster_Skweeb]

A contingency plan amounts to little unless it is ready to be used as, y'know, a contingency plan. As for why? It's lex luthor. He don't want any interference when he's out to steal some cakes.

[Aerozord]

Doomsday is literally Plan B. He even says as much. Lex Luthor's Plan is to get Batman and Superman to fight/Kill each other. That's like, all there is.

That is a plan technically, but its not a goal. I mean what does he get out of it?

Also Plan B kind of sucks because THAT is not a plan. Thats an idea. For it to be a plan he needs a way to neutralize Doomsday. Otherwise all he's done is trade one threat for a bigger stronger threat. Its like trying to get an ocelot out of your house by tossing a tiger in there.

[Bard The 5th LW]

That is a plan technically, but its not a goal. I mean what does he get out of it?

Also Plan B kind of sucks because THAT is not a plan. Thats an idea. For it to be a plan he needs a way to neutralize Doomsday. Otherwise all he's done is trade one threat for a bigger stronger threat. Its like trying to get an ocelot out of your house by tossing a tiger in there.

Basically my problem. I don't know what he wants out of killing Superman and Batman, and his only OTHER contingency for killing Superman seems to implicitly include "Kill EVERYONE ELSE" alongside Superman because there's no evidence that he had any way of stopping Doomsday once it killed Supes. Fuck, he 'gave' all his kryptonite to Batman in a convoluted plan that apparently involves him being an actual psychic.