Final DS Design Revealed

[Lockeownzj00]

http://www.gizmodo.com/archives/nintendo-shows-final-ds-design-018399.php

FINALLY! That e3 motherfucker was ug-lee.

[Deathosaurus Wrecks]

hmm, interesting. no real reference to scale though. from the looks of it though it should be comfortable even in my massive hands.

[MasterOfMagic]

No headphones agian? Other than that, it looks great.

[IHateMakingNames]

Why does Nintendo hate headphones?

[BMHadoken]

Because outside of the occasional Castlevania games, all Gameboy games soundtracks are three second annoying ditties on repeat. I never play with sound so its not much of a problem for me.

But hey, stylus holder=good idea.

[Lost in Time]

Looks sleek, and shiny. No headphone jack is a down, and it still looks like a makeup case. Still better then the one released at E3 though.

[AndyBloodredMage]

Looks pretty nice, but I still might not get it anytime soon (with respect to launch time) if they don't have any good launch titles.

[Iced Earth]

It looks good but I still like the look of the psp better.

[The Mirror Emperor]

The titles I know of so far for this system:

Table Hockey
Carving
Special Effects
Mario's Face
Balloon Trip
Nintendogs
Submarine
Super Mario 64 recreated?

This will fall faster than Virtual Boy for sure.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Perhaps this article meant that the system isn't coming with Headphones on launch (a reference to how the original GB system came with a pair of headphones). But who knows. In other words, if you have heard someone say 'it has no headphone jack', I'd like to know. I personally really like headphones and sure as hell used them alot on Fire Emblem and FFTA.

And I like the new design alot. The old one I could have managed and I admit it looked too plain for my tastes, but this is just what I like. I like simple designs that look unique.

[Stover]

It looks like there's a headpones port on the bottom right. It could be a headphones port, or it could be a DC power input.

[KefkaTaran]

Yeah, I'd heard all over that DS WILL have a headphone part. Can anyone give any solid information on this? Supposedly that was for sure.

Anyways, that looks sexy as hell. I'm glad. Now it truly can compete with the PSP visually.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

The titles I know of so far for this system:

Table Hockey
Carving
Special Effects
Mario's Face
Balloon Trip
Nintendogs
Submarine
Super Mario 64 recreated?

This will fall faster than Virtual Boy for sure.

The only titles (actually title) on your list that has been confirmed for launch is the Mario 64 'Battle' demo, where you will be able to use Mario, Luigi, Yoshi and I believe Wario, Waluigi and probably all the other bunch to fight in a 3D multi-player enviorment. Also what has been confirmed is the 3D Metroid game, originally also just made as a demo for E3. Add this to another 18 Nintendo Internal developed launch games and another 100 games being created at the moment or already DONE by over 100 companies already commited to the system....you might want to give it a chance before you claim it will flop to a system that only saw 6 games at launch, not even a dozen companies trying to make games for it and had far infirior technology for what it was trying to acomplish.

Oh yeah, mind you that you haven't even played any of the games. Unless you were somehow at E3....which I doubt.

[Reno]

Why does Nintendo hate headphones?

They don't hate headphones. They love them. That is they love making us fork over the $20. :D

[boarder]

So how much longer before they make a hand-held GameCube complete with all the fun games to amuse 10-year olds? It'd be nice when Nintendo grows up. I've seen screenshots of the upcoming zelda and I'm sure it'll just be more of what we've already seen just with different graphics.

I am interested to see if the stylus will be useful, or wind up like the mouse for the snes did, along with all the other peripherals they've tried to use.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

-sigh- Another newbie to the board brandishing the 'Nindento Kiddy' stick.

I just never get tired of them. -_-

[KefkaTaran]

Boarder: No offense, dude, but I don't think it's Nintendo that needs to grow up here. Especially when the topic at hand is the Nintendo DS's design, which happens to be one of the most stylistic and smart decisions I've seen the big N make in a while.

Ken: I believe they've also announced a new 2D Mario title for the DS that was shown at E3.

[Peo]

well,seeing as how Im poor and all, I wont be getting a ds any time soon, I didnt get an sp even. Though I did have two original advances, I broke them both. Here's a tip for you guys, dont put a gameboy in your pocket and then fall onto the black top, its not a pretty site.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Ken: I believe they've also announced a new 2D Mario title for the DS that was shown at E3.

Oh yeah. and there's that too. And that's looking quite fun, where Mario uses Mushrooms to grow to be like 4-5 times his normal size and walk over all his enemies and the terrain. And then the monsters can use mushrooms too!

Its like an entire game in Giant land in Mario 3!

[KefkaTaran]

Ken: It looks quite awesome. And let's just admit, who of us here hasn't yearned for a NEW 2D Mario? 3D Marios? Fine... but we all know he's much more fun in 2D.

Peo: I actually never bought a GBA either. I simply got a Gameboy player which works pretty much just as well. BUT... I don't see that being an option for the DS, so it looks like the DS (and possibly the PSP with it) will be the first handhelds I've ever owned.

[felth]

I didn't think the unit shown at E3 was that ugly, but even so, I like this new look even better. Stylus storage? Maybe they'll take the next step and include one with the unit, perhaps.

[The_Bear]

Cool new look, I just hope it fits in my pocket. I'm still a little iffy about the two screens, but I think I'll give it a shot.

[Sithdarth]

Here (http://www.nintendo.com/ds/overview.jsp) you go. Lots of info to be had here. I'm just wondering but did anyone other than me bother to check the site of the company creating this for answers.

[MasterOfMagic]

Nah. I was just too lazy.
Looks real interesting though. I'll probably have to wait for the price to drop though. That or start saving pennies now.

[Wolf99x]

Wow...the DS looks great. I agree that the E3 design was ugly as hell, but this thing looks awesome. As to everyone complaining about price...here's some fun facts that will later get me shot or set ablaze.

Price of Nokia N-Gage: $300 (IT SUCKED!!!! HAHAHAHAHAH)

Price of Nokia N-Gage QD: $300 (it too...SUCKS! HAHAHAHAHAH...although admittedly, Ghost Recon looked cool.)

Price of Sony PSP: $200 (last I checked...and this thing has a 2 hr. battery life at most. "You can watch a movie" my ass. Later Sony will probably make a 6 hr. battery and gouge people for money by making them buy it separate...just like that goddamn multi-tap.)

Now...all of the three examples I have only have...1 screen...minimal battery life...and may be prone to exploding (Nokia N-Gage).

The DS on the other hand, has a battery life longer than that of the GBA SP, has two screens in vivid color (one of which is a touch screen), a microphone, a stylus, and possibilities for wireless internet (or at the very least, wireless online gaming like that of the new N-Gage). So when you think about it...$170 doesn't seem that bad (especially since most color Palm Pilots are $200-500)...although I admit it is kind of high.

[Lockeownzj00]

It's not 2 hours. It's 2 hours if you only watch a movie. It's 10 hours if you only play games. But most likely people will use it for many different things, making it probably not long enough to watch an entire movie, but play games too.

[Wolf99x]

<crickets chirping>

So...not pushing buttons uses more battery life than pushing buttons and interacting constantly...all right...I get it now.

Actually...no I don't. That makes no sense. How can the battery last longer if you are playing games...which require more media intearaction and more processing power...than if watching a movie, in which interactivity takes a back seat?

Case in point, my portable CD player lasts 8 hours on 2 AA batteries if skip protection is disabled, but only 6 if it is. This is because more power is needed to use the skip protector.

Of course...if there is proof to back up your statement...

[Satan the God]

I went and checked my GMR (a gamer magazine) and looked up the stats, and it states headphone and microphone jacks as input, so apparently they have the jack, you just provide your own like Kenryoku segested.

[Deathosaurus Wrecks]

Actually...no I don't. That makes no sense. How can the battery last longer if you are playing games...which require more media intearaction and more processing power...than if watching a movie, in which interactivity takes a back seat?.

actualy, that might not be true. videos are tricky things to run. you figure that with most games on GBAs, all they have to do is find a sprite file and display that with a little looped animation in order for something to appear to move. with a movie it would have to continualy draw all that on screen.

[KefkaTaran]

I think Johnny's got it right, actually. FOR ONCE IN HIS LIFE.

Anyways, I'm not really sure of the physics of it, but movies obviously take more of the unit's power to run.

[Wolf99x]

Well...that is true...but...the PSP games, being in full 3D with AI and all that other great stuff, will have to do more calculations as things move. If you have 5 onscreen enemies, each acting a different way in a fully 3D environment, and the game is calculating that, then it's going to take up a lot of power anyway. This is why gaming laptops suffer from short battery lives (generally). This is why I think that the "10hr gaming, 2hr movie" battery lifespan is total crap.

And who knows? Maybe this will affect the DS's battery life as well.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Backgrounds can be stagnent (non-moving) and screens can load sprites and hold them in memory, repeating sprite movements instead of having to recall them from the cart. However, movies have to continue to load data from the source disk and project that to the screen, all the while dumping the last load of data and keeping the disk running and power at a constant. So, while it also kind of puzzles me that there would be an 8 hour gap between movie and game playing time, I can see how there MIGHT be the possiblity that games COULD leave longer amounts of battery life than a movie.

However I think when you start dealing with games with high polygon counts, non-stagnent components and PS2 sized games....uh...I gotta start wondering how that won't be draining the battery a TON.

[The Mirror Emperor]

I'm thinking of changing my mind and buying the DS...

I heard a couple more titles for the game from a different site:

Animal Crossing DS
Mario Kart DS
Metroid: Hunters
Some Super Mario Game
Pictochat
WarioWare DS

There's also Nintendogs and Super Mario 64x4 which I previously mentioned. The ones I previously mentioned but didn't post up here I got off of Nintendo Power.

[Wolf99x]

However I think when you start dealing with games with high polygon counts, non-stagnent components and PS2 sized games....uh...I gotta start wondering how that won't be draining the battery a TON.

That's exactly my point, Ken. Both PSP and DS will have to deal with moving backgrounds, high poly counts, AI considerations, etc. However, since Nintendo has proof that their batteries are built to last, and Sony only offered vauge statements, I tend to believe that they don't know how their battery will stack up with that of the DS.

[Windrift-RPG]

Both PSP and DS will have to deal with moving backgrounds, high poly counts, AI considerations, etc.

I don't know if this is on topic or not but, I love the GBA SP and I will be seriously disappointed if that system is abandoned. Some of my favorite games of all time have come out on the GBA. I love side scrollers, I love sprite-based RPGs. Now even handheld systems are moving into the world of polygons and 3D. I mean I dig those games too, I just really enjoyed the brief resurfacing of SNES era gaming on the GBA SP.

Does anyone know if the GBA SP is going to continue on as strongly as it has been? Or if it is going to get kicked to the sidelines as history shows most gaming companies do to their old consoles, as new ones are released. I know you can play GBA games on the DS, but that's not gauranteeing new games will still come out for the GBA...

[Sithdarth]

Nintendo says the DS is not a new Gameboy. It is their 'Third Pillar'. As far as movies go games would be easier. All removable digital movie storage is highly compressed. Either system would have to load the codec decompress the data, make sense of the data, and render the data, all at the same time. Where as when you play a game you only process and render the data, because whats on screen is drawn with instructions.

[Lockeownzj00]

Yeah supposedly (somehow) it will be a third system, which I doubt. I think GBA will become like the dreamcast--for some reason, people are still fraking making games for it (and I don't mean homebrew).

Here are a few games that piqued my interest in the list:

Boktai (Konami)
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles New Work (Square Enix)
Seiken Densetsu (Secret of Mana) New Work (Square Enix)
Sonic DS (Sega)
Castlevania (Konami)
Rockman EXE series (Capcom)
New RPG (GameArts)
Goemon (Konami)
Vandal Hearts (Konami)
New RPG (Namco)
New Mr. Driller (Namco)
Nintendogs (Nintendo)
Harvest Moon DS (Marvelous) <--what happened to serious fun?!
Original RPG (Marvelous)

Not to mention Animal Crossing DS, Super Mario 64 (hopefully with multiplayer!) DS, and that sexy instant messaging program ;D

Oh, and even though I knew it for a fact that Sony said the whole 2 hour movie thing, I was too lazy to find it. Here it is now:

"So, what is the battery life going to be on PlayStation Portable? It will be on par with traditional handheld systems, or approximately 10 hours. It is comparable to an ATC [ATRAC] portable music player, or approximately 8 hours. Or, it will be comparable to portable DVD players, which, in many cases, is about 2 and a half hours."
--Kaz Hirai, May 11, 2004

Like I said, though, this doesn't factor in mixed use.

Here's a roundup of general features from a *shudder* IGN article, which was in Famitsu. These are based on polls Famitsu took.

ROUND 1: Which do you think will sell better?
PSP = 102, DS = 137, SPLIT = 111

ROUND 2: Which will be cheaper?
PSP = 31, DS = 274, SPLIT = 38

ROUND 3: Which will be released first?
PSP = 98, DS = 152, SPLIT = 101

ROUND 4: Which will have more interesting software?
PSP = 66, DS = 172, SPLIT = 111

ROUND 5: Which design to you like better?
PSP = 251, DS = 42, SPLIT = 58

ROUND 6: Which one do you want to carry with you normally?
PSP = 134, DS = 69, SPLIT = 147

ROUND 7: Which one do you want to play while on the train?
PSP = 140, DS = 91, SPLIT = 119

ROUND 8: Which one makes a better present?
PSP = 104, DS = 89, SPLIT = 154

ROUND 9: Which one has more appealing functionality?
PSP = 113, DS = 149, SPLIT = 88

ROUND 10: Which will feature more fresh, new software?
PSP = 31, DS = 244, SPLIT = 74

ROUND 11: Which one is easier to develop for?
PSP = 114, DS = 98, SPLIT = 134

ROUND 12: Which do you want to be left standing in the end?
PSP = 84, DS = 156, SPLIT = 112

And the winner is:

NINTENDO DS

PSP wins five rounds and gets a total of 1269 votes compared to DS's seven rounds and 1629 votes.



Purely statistically speaking, of course.

[Sithdarth]

So they don't want to be seen with it but the still want to have it. Interesting to say the least.

[KefkaTaran]

Sithdarth: Well PSP is the cool thing to have. And it's sexy.

But I seriously gotta say, with DS' new design, I would no longer mind holding it in public. Hell, maybe the cool kids wouldn't even beat me up and steal my lunch money now!

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Does anyone know if the GBA SP is going to continue on as strongly as it has been? Or if it is going to get kicked to the sidelines as history shows most gaming companies do to their old consoles, as new ones are released. I know you can play GBA games on the DS, but that's not gauranteeing new games will still come out for the GBA...

I'm pretty much predicting the new DS will become the next Game Boy for Nintendo unless they decide to make a new system with one screen. The DS will be backwards compadable with ALL old GB games and so you shouldn't have a problem playing them. I don't know if the screens on the DS are smaller than the ones on a SP, but if not....I see little reason for the DS, if its other functions are good, NOT to replace the GB series.

[Wolf99x]

Well, I can finally put the battery thing to rest. The following was from a Game Informer interview with Kaz Hirai, Sony of America CEO.


GI: One thing we were a little confused about in the presentation (of the PSP), was the battery life. At first you said ten hours and then you seemed to say it could be as short as two.
Kaz Hirai Battery life is one of these things where if you state a number, then everybody's satisfied. The only problem, of course, is it never matches what you state. That's especially prevalent with the PlayStation Portable because it plays various entertainment content. If you're just listening to music with no visuals at all then it should last about eight to ten hours. If you are playing a game that is consistently cycling through and putting the CPU to good use, yeah, battery life is going to be shorter. Maybe about two and a half, three hours.


So there we have it. Sony's CEO answers the questions for us. Logically, if games take up that much power, then movies must take up almost that much too.

Also, Nintendo still maintains they will be encouraging software development for the GBA/GBA SP even after the DS launches. Something about different demographics.

[Lockeownzj00]

Not that it will happen. The DS is superior to GBA in every way.

[Wolf99x]

That is absolutely-freakin true, Locke. I think that the GBA SP will indeed fall from grace once the DS rolls around...but hey, we can still play GBA games on the DS...and until we get a DS Advance Wars...I'm going to like the backwards combatibility a lot.

[Atma]

I don't agree. I think many gamers would rather stick with their GBA's rather than switching to the DS, and Nintendo knows that. So they're still going to produce games for the DS and GBA as a result. And if the DS never takes off, they'll have the GBA to fall back on. It seems like a pretty smart way to go about it. With two popular hand helds on the market, I can't see the PSP getting very far.

[Wolf99x]

Hmm...up until this point, I never looked at it that way. That really is a smart move on Nintendo's decision...not that they've ever needed to employ such moves before. Anyone remember Neo Geo Pocket Color? No? didn't think so.

[Sithdarth]

The thing is they have over 100 companies developing for the DS and over 20 games that will be ready at or very near the launch date. Basically they are not going to let it flop.

[Lockeownzj00]

My point is: it's going to be like the NES and SNES. "Oh, we'll keep developing for the old one!" And slowly, ever so slowly, then incredibly quickly, the old system crumbles into dust. You can't have multiple systems of the same type out by one company or one of them, and possibly both are doomed to failure. Look at every sega console. EVER.

[Windrift-RPG]

Look at every sega console. EVER.

^ Yep.

Anyhow, I'm all about the DS. I think it will be freakin' fantastic. It is a superior system to the GBA. Mostly I'm looking forward to more freedom for developers to create higher quality music.

BUT...

I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sidescrollers rule. And so do 16-bit overhead view RPGs. You really only saw these types of games flourish during the NES/SNES era. There have been exceptions like CV: SOTN for PS1. But for the most part, the sidescroller market has been long dead, due to the popularity of 3D environments, and RPGs are also 3D now.

Then came the GBA, and those genres returned with a vengeance. I've been loving it. If the DS would release games like that, I wouldn't give a crap that GBA is going to fall away. I just know that with the more powerful DS, developers won't be interested in creating 2D/Sprite-based overhead games. And that is a real shame. I guess I'll just savor it while it lasts.

[The_Bear]

My point is: it's going to be like the NES and SNES. "Oh, we'll keep developing for the old one!" And slowly, ever so slowly, then incredibly quickly, the old system crumbles into dust. You can't have multiple systems of the same type out by one company or one of them, and possibly both are doomed to failure. Look at every sega console. EVER.

Agreed. Whichever system sells the most, either the GBA or the DS, will become Nintendo's main focus. I'm hoping for the DS to be successful, becasue now I'm really interested in what dual screens can accomplish. Backwards compatability will help some of the middle-ground gamers feel more secure about buying a DS, with its newer, awsomer design.

[Lockeownzj00]

I think the instant messaging services will rope in enough teenagers and cell-phone lusters to hold us gamers up.

[MFD]

I never hopped on board with the SP, because my GBA was working fine. So, I'm getting a DS.

[Otaku Son]

-sigh- Another newbie to the board brandishing the 'Nindento Kiddy' stick.

I just never get tired of them. -_-
Look again; Boarder's been around as long as you have.

Anyway, since when did Japan start using Euros for their currency? Outside of that, this design does look very sleek. Can I see a shot of what the E3 prototype looked like?

[MasterOfMagic]

Otaku, click here (http://www.gadgetmadness.com/archives/20040511-e3_2004_official_nintendo_ds_picture_aka_game_and_ watch_2004.php) The silver one is the real one, not that ugly red thing. It really dosen't seem so bad too me. *shrugs*

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

Look again; Boarder's been around as long as you have.

I guess.....if you count 16 posts being around as long as you or I...

[MasterOfMagic]

He was talking about the join date I believe, which says he's been around since november. He might not be very active, but he has been around for a while.

[Otaku Son]

Otaku, click here (http://www.gadgetmadness.com/archives/20040511-e3_2004_official_nintendo_ds_picture_aka_game_and_ watch_2004.php) The silver one is the real one, not that ugly red thing. It really dosen't seem so bad too me. *shrugs*
The silver one is the E3 prototype? True, it doesn't look quite as ugly as the Donkey Kong Game&Watch, but it's still not as sleek as the final design.

I might finally get a handheld console. Though, will it be the uber-slick DS, or will it be the Metal Gear Ac!d-playable PSP? Hmmm...

[KefkaTaran]

I'm probably going to end up with both the PSP and DS eventually, which is really odd for me. I've also never really had a handheld. When I really want to play handheld games, I've generally bought the peripherals that allow you to play them on the television (the Gameboy one that came out for SNES way back in the day, and now the Gameboy Player for Gamecube).

Unless they do end up making something akin to that with PSP and PS3.

[Wolf99x]

I might finally get a handheld console. Though, will it be the uber-slick DS, or will it be the Metal Gear Ac!d-playable PSP? Hmmm...

There's something about Metal Gear Acid that even makes me, an MGS addict, want to run out into the streets screaming and cursing. I think it's the fact that it's such an avant-garde game. It's like, Magic the Gathering meets Advance Wars meets Metal Gear. Unfortunately, while that may sound cool for some people, to me it sounds like a recipie for disaster. But who knows? It might not be.

In any event, I'm definetly getting the DS first. I'll wait a few months to see how the PSP fares against Nintendo's iron grip on the handheld market. If it seems to be making it...then maybe I'll consider.

[Windrift-RPG]

Hmm. I expected much worse for the appearance of the E3 prototype. It wasn't that bad. Maybe the picture doesn't do the ugliness justice. In any case, the new model does look far superior.

I'm probably going to end up with both the PSP and DS eventually

I have no doubt I'll be getting both, as well. Ever since GBA SP I am addicted to handheld gaming. Probably because I'm on the go alot.

I'm just keeping my fingers crossed that nintendo won't abandon the GBA SP. I love those 16-bit RPGs and sidescrollers!

[MFD]

Well, the DS can't really do 64 bit graphics on both screens, so we might be seeing 32 bits on both, or something to that effect.

[Sithdarth]

Well, the DS can't really do 64 bit graphics on both screens, so we might be seeing 32 bits on both, or something to that effect.

Yes it most certainly can. That is why it has two CPUs. One for each screen and both are supposed to be better than N64 graphics. It's all on Nintndo's website. Which I have posted a link to.

[Wolf99x]

Speaking of 64-bit graphics...It'd be nice if they remade Perfect Dark for the DS. I don't know how they could utilize the second screen, but I'm sure they could find a way. Rare could even make it, because they still make games for The GBA. They haven't fully broken from Nintendo, they just chose to make games for the XBOX.

[Lockeownzj00]

they just chose to make games for the XBOX.

correction: they were just forced to make games for the XBOX because Microsoft bought them.

[Wolf99x]

Oh...right...I forgot that you can never put a positive spin on Microsoft's nasty habit of assimilating the best talent in video game design.

[Lockeownzj00]

I think this article is a very interesting 7-page debate.

http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/536/536537p1.html

[Mashirosen]

Page limit, but if you feel like the discussion's not over yet, go ahead and start a new one.