471: And then I died [Archive] - The Warring States of NPF

The Warlock

10-16-2004, 12:04 AM

Brian pretty much verified that it was BM. But I've always thought that Fighter was the red speaker myself, because the few times Brian has alluded to future events fighter has actually appeared competent.

Just one man's opinion.
No way, BM is definately the yellow speaker. Maybe he's both sides of the conversation, but I don't think so. But his comment "someday I'll look back on this and find it funny" combined with "that was funny, wasn't it" means that he's the yellow one.

When Fighter is competent, he doesn't think about big things like space/time, causality, and how to speak in a completely cryptic, obtuse way. But BB's thougts definately put him at least in the running for Red. In fact, I'd go as far as saying that it's either BB or White Mage (or someone we haven't seen yet) that's the Red speaker in that strip. None of the others would be that serious.

shiney

10-16-2004, 12:08 AM

You must have edited your post. Previously it had said you wondered if BB was the yellow speaker. I think that's where this little bit of confusion came in.

Mike McC

10-16-2004, 12:10 AM

The Warlock: Yeah, BM is the Yellow speaker. That's what shiny was talking about, what with Brian confirming it and all. shiney's speculating that the red speaker is Fighter.

darkie: No, I think that the one comic there is foreshadowing something that happens at the end of the road, much further along than the story currently is.

Now then, I have a feeling that the resolution to all of this will end up being a lot more serious than what everyone here is saying. No offense, but Brian always has a knack for doing the unexpected with the story.

Archbio

10-16-2004, 12:25 AM

The best comic line related to BB ("stop her with your violence!") followed by a very effective dramatic moment, including BB.

Awe.

Also makes Kary extremely convincing (incidentally it's also what happened when I played the game. Over and over and over again).

MFD

10-16-2004, 12:29 AM

The red speaker is either Fighter or RM. WM has pink textboxes, and BB has blue ones. You can see these boxes in this comic. 471 def. rules OUT BB as the red speaker.

Joseph Pandora

10-16-2004, 12:31 AM

But serious endings make Joseph Pandora cry!

Damn you Brian.

Writers need to relise that killing off a charicter only adds cheap drama to a story. You only bump off a charicter if completely nessicary and never to lead to a ending with half the charicters dead. People will say they enjoyed the story but the end will just sort of spoil it for their mind. I have a hard time reading the last book in the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy for this reason.My brain just sort of pretends the series ended with everything ok at the end of So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.

Stil I am jumping to conclusions. I should see where this takes 8BT before I decide that it is a bad thing. Still it needed to be said.

Person

10-16-2004, 12:31 AM

Even though I kept thinking "Well, all they'll need to do is fish his duplicate (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=020410) out of the lake BM dumped it in and cure him," I still teared up a little. I'm just a sad little person.

Chargos

10-16-2004, 12:43 AM

hmm...crazy idea here...BB comes back to life...but opposite...he becomes evil and becomes the fourth dark warrior, I think I remember Brian having said the 4th DW had already been introduced, and was male. This would be a definate interesting plot twist.

Sky Warrior Bob

10-16-2004, 01:01 AM

Personally I ask myself if Black Belt's inner speach is an exaggeration, or not. I mean, afterlife aside, you generally don't get to announce your own death like that.

Beyond that, people keep suggesting that this Black Belt's going to somehow suddenly twist the fabric of space & time, just to make himself alive again. That's not going to happen.

Not to say that this hasn't already happened (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=020410).

Sky Warrior Bob

Ren

10-16-2004, 01:07 AM

Wow. I still hold firm to the fact that Brian is a serious and talented writer.

Aside from that, I will admit...that didn't really SOUND like Black Belt...too...I don't know. Serious. Smart. Coherent.

Krylo: Yah... but you try to think of a death speech that DOES sound like black belt
Me: How about
Me: "BLARGgurgle."
Krylo: hehe

But I digress. Who knows? We've never gotten much of a peek into BB's head.

Chief Justice Ninja

10-16-2004, 01:30 AM

:eek:

Black Belt Down!

Not only that, but he got seriously owned, from the looks of it.

Can't wait to see :fighter: make his stand against Kary. (readies Duel of the Fates for maximum visual-audio synergy...or something).

Mike McC

10-16-2004, 01:55 AM

Writers need to relise that killing off a charicter only adds cheap drama to a story. You only bump off a charicter if completely nessicary and never to lead to a ending with half the charicters dead. People will say they enjoyed the story but the end will just sort of spoil it for their mind. I have a hard time reading the last book in the hitchhikers guide to the galaxy for this reason.My brain just sort of pretends the series ended with everything ok at the end of So Long and Thanks for all the Fish.

I think Brian realizes this. And, if past comics are any indication, he has a plan for where he's going. So, it leads me to believe that if he kills a character, it will be important to the plot.

On a side note, Douglas Adams was working on a new Hitchhiker book when he died, I believe. I mean, if there's anything that was constant in that series of books, it was that nothing was constant and definate.

Amake

10-16-2004, 02:21 AM

Awesome! Uh, I got something in my eye. >.o

Fabricated

10-16-2004, 02:39 AM

Rather well written. Neato.

My guess: BB dead, probably brought back to life by WM. I mean, she's a white mage.

Also, with BB dead that means WM would either have to go it alone after this, get a new bodyguard (no other classes left, so that's out), or join with the "light warriors" (doubtful).

If she goes it alone that means she'll no longer have a foil. That's bad for the funny making. Duh.

Violetta

10-16-2004, 02:40 AM

BB is smart, but he only shows it when a special event happens. Remember when WW asked him if BM and etc were not the LW?

Trixbeat

10-16-2004, 03:05 AM

WM is now guilty for sending BB to his doom. Nobody's perfect :P. But then again, WM should have a life spell

Loyal

10-16-2004, 03:16 AM

'Tis a pity. But I guess there's some sort of ironic humor in BB narrating his own death like that. Almost like it's in his future memoirs or something. Heeeeey... that might actually work!

Meister

10-16-2004, 03:36 AM

Holy crap. Great comic, Brian.

I don't think Black Belt will return just like that. Not if his death is that much emphasized.

Arlia Janet

10-16-2004, 04:21 AM

Chief Justice, you gave me the idea for this one, (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v39/palinurus/blackbelt.jpg) but I the real reason I made it was out of spite and sibling rivalry.

Back on topic. This is almost as powerful as Fighter's, "Get up and yell at me BM... Please..." speech over BM's body. I'm going to go sleep now. My eyes feel very heavy after reading this comic.

Dragatus

10-16-2004, 04:23 AM

Fighter still has that fire-proof armor from the dragon, right? That ought to be of some use against the fiend of fire. Unless of course Fighter never gets a chance to fight.

Also, did anyone else notice Thief is nowhere to be seen? He may have some stealthy plan (which may fail most horribly).

Well, until now everything I predicted was wrong (except the part with BM not staying dead for long) so I'm going to shut up and let Brian surprise me.

Nucleus

10-16-2004, 04:30 AM

Bah! NO way BB is just coming back via his idiocy after such a dramatic death scene.
Indeed. Not to mention that there is no body to push his soul back into, unlike what happened with Black Mage.

There were not even ashes.

Sky Warrior Bob

10-16-2004, 05:18 AM

On a side note, Douglas Adams was working on a new Hitchhiker book when he died, I believe. I mean, if there's anything that was constant in that series of books, it was that nothing was constant and definate.

Actually, when Douglas Adams died, he was working on Dirk Gentley book, called Salmon of Doubt. Which did get kinda released, at least the chapters Douglas had finished, along with everything elese that resided on his computer at the time of his death. He had expressed an intent to do another Hitchhiker's book at several events, but I don't think he put anything down on paper as to what he was thinking of doing.

Sad really, and it makes me hate those arseholes in the Scifi.com chat room all the more, as some were pretty disrespectful to DA, as I vaguely recall.

Sky Warrior Bob

Violetta

10-16-2004, 05:55 AM

yoav

10-16-2004, 06:00 AM

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040212 Here i think.
Anyway i don't think BB will stay dead for long probaly he will warp time and space around him so he will arrive into being the second kary get wasted

SuperSaienBlackFighter

10-16-2004, 06:33 AM

Personally, I like these occasional serious comics, and think Brian should do a bit more. It seems sorta too random and pointless (in a bad way) if there's no tension, if they naver follow the rules of drama (rightous anger>all). I liked the BM death scene, although fighter should have been beating Lich harder. though, what with all he was bragging about, It's probably impressave for him to have been holding his own. Anyway, I'm not sure how BB will come back, but I think he will. It doesn't seem in 8-bit theatre's nature to leave a main character dead for too long. It won't happen for a while, though.

Jarlax

10-16-2004, 06:40 AM

The thing we need to ask ourselves is: was this a "battle" or did it take place outside of battle? Because thats the real question of if WM can just cast a life spell. It like the whole "Why can't aeris be revived with a phoenix down?" argument.

Amake

10-16-2004, 07:14 AM

I don't think Phoenix downs revive the dead. Nobody is ever killed in fights; the status is usually "K.O." or similar. One of the things that make the fights in the games surrealistic, impressionistic, opera-like business. The logic of FF fights shouldn't - and doesn't seem to - have any relation to the comic.

Oh, and let me add to the chorus of voices saying "great strip". I <3 the drama. :D
If there was more strips like these 8BT could compete with Jack (http://www.pholph.com) for the webcomic throne. . .

Loyal

10-16-2004, 07:21 AM

Amake

10-16-2004, 07:33 AM

That's an interesting theory L2NES, but I'd argue RM is closest to the element of water. WM more likely. In my mind, anyway.

Kraken isn't by nature a water creature, though, even if it lives in water. Its essence is size; it's supposed to be the most gargantanic* creature this side of Chthulu. The only light warrior to match that description is the physical powerhouse, Fighter.

*Gargantanic = Gargantuan times Titanic

Skyshot

10-16-2004, 07:34 AM

Hey, I think I am beginning to see a pattern here. For each Fiend encountered, a LW has died. For Lich, it was BM. For Kary, it's BB. Now, Lich, and BM are both pretty much the essence of pure evil, while Kary and BB are from "mountain strongholds in the East."

Now, the next fiend, Kraken... he's the Fiend of Water. Water is basically ice. RM can cast Ice spells. Who here is beginning to think that RM will die at the hands of Kraken?

Now, who here thinks I'm just a paranoid conspiracy theorist?

Hey, I do.

And I'll be the first to point out that BB isn't a LW.

You know, I can't really picture BB actually dying after this, myself. I think it'll come out more like the infamous episode 434, where you have this serious, in-depth discussion followed by a funny image and quote at the end.
Chances are, BB won't die, he'll just get "blown clear" as Bob & George and Fairly Aimless RPG Talk Show so famously put it.

darkie

10-16-2004, 07:35 AM

Oh my! Very good teory, Loyal2NES! I have to go with you in that. Lets see what Brian have to say to that. ;D

LordZoma

10-16-2004, 08:54 AM

You guys forget -

This is final fantasy 1. you don't need fenix down's or life spells. you just drag BB's corpse to the nearest house with a heart on it, and pay a variable amount of money depending on how powerful he was when he died to bring him back to life.

Of course, who's going to want to shell out the money to bring BB back to life. Chances are it will be subject to an argument, and no one will want to do it, thus forcing White Mage to do it out of her own pocket.

Then again, BB could be gone forever. In any case, I support the inevitable outcome, because if I didn't, I wouldn't.

Skyshot

10-16-2004, 09:20 AM

WM took a vow of poverty, remember? She can't pay for it.

Say, does anyone want to start up a meaningful discussion about BB's philosophy in this strip? I'm all for one.

Ganurath

10-16-2004, 09:39 AM

As for my opinion on the strip: I smell a Monty Python reference coming up. "I'm not actually dead yet."

My opinion on the previous cryptic scene: I think the red texted talker is kary herself. A showdown of the magically enhanced, pointy object wielding, homicidal psychopaths.

As for my opinion on philosophy: Every choice eliminating thousands of other choices makes sense, but we aren't born with limitless possibilities. For example, Sara, Thief, and Drizz'l were born with better opportunities than Pjoe or King Steve's messenger boy.

As for my opinion on the future: What would be a fantastic follow up would be for someone to cast some spell to give fighter an extra pair of arms so he can wield all four swords at once, which would level him with Kary after his new fire armor.

Decoy

10-16-2004, 09:49 AM

You guys forget -

This is final fantasy 1. you don't need fenix down's or life spells. you just drag BB's corpse to the nearest house with a heart on it, and pay a variable amount of money depending on how powerful he was when he died to bring him back to life.

Judging by the comic, he doesn't seem to have much of a body left to drag back.

Also, can :wmage: learn life spells? i thought that was only something White Wizards could do.

swifters

10-16-2004, 10:00 AM

As for my opinion on philosophy: Every choice eliminating thousands of other choices makes sense, but we aren't born with limitless possibilities. For example, Sara, Thief, and Drizz'l were born with better opportunities than Pjoe or King Steve's messenger boy.

"I'm lucky that way. My path was already there." The comic didn't state that the thousands of possibilities applied to everyone, it left room for special cases. That said, I disagree with the examples you provided. Though some have different oppurtunities, they all could have ended up in very different circumstances than they are in, and they can all still end up in a million different situations from here.

Skyshot

10-16-2004, 10:04 AM

Judging by the comic, he doesn't seem to have much of a body left to drag back.

Also, can :wmage: learn life spells? i thought that was only something White Wizards could do.

:bmage: knows a level 9 spell. He hasn't used any, say, level 8 spells, but he seems fairly accomplished in that area.

Xellos

10-16-2004, 10:33 AM

Now that/if WM has lost her travelling companion, does that mean that she will have to travel with the light warriors indeffinatly. After all, WM won't be very good at watching the light warriors on her own. Also, we can't always assume that main characters will come back to life esspecially if they get a whole strip (possibly two) to their own death. BM got, like what?, two or three pannels. It was a quick spine snap really. Though I suppose that WM can always find another compannion, and Brian was just making room for them.

On a second note, someone should make a magic card for Kary.

Mikaga

10-16-2004, 11:16 AM

Judging by the comic, he doesn't seem to have much of a body left to drag back.

Also, can :wmage: learn life spells? i thought that was only something White Wizards could do.

Feh, BM's spine had snapped in numerous places (among other injuries) and yet he was fine when "revived".

IIRC White Mages can learn Life in FF1. It's Red Mages that need to become Wizards before they can learn that spell.

Finally, :wmage: may have already used Life, considering the state :rmage: was in after being stabbed in that tent. She does state that she recovered him "from the brink of stabbity death", but that could mean that without her around he'd have stayed dead, or it could've been poor wording.

swifters

10-16-2004, 11:30 AM

Finally, :wmage: may have already used Life, considering the state :rmage: was in after being stabbed in that tent. She does state that she recovered him "from the brink of stabbity death", but that could mean that without her around he'd have stayed dead, or it could've been poor wording.

You're reading too much into what should be very simple. Obviously, the "brink of stabbity death" meant nothing more than he was near death, but did not require more than a powerful healing spell. Life would've been inneffective, unless she'd got to him too late.

Now, I do believe WM has the Life spell, as all of the LW's express their essential nature in some extreme ability. Like Thief's ability to constantly fool others into signing over everything but their souls to him, RM's ability to convert to any nessicary class, the ultimate demonstration of Black Magery that is Hadoken, etc. It would be only fitting that WM could heal nearly any wound deadly or otherwise.

Someone said something about WM not being able to use Life if the reciever died out of battle, but I don't think that's true. Correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you faint from lava (out of battle) and still be revived? I'm not 100% sure on this, I think the HP meter may just go to 1hp and not go down any further. Either way, it's obviously an in-battle scenerio, BB died assaulting Kary (edit: oh, and some might argue and say that the entire LW party wasn't involved in the fight so it wasn't a battle, but since WM and BB aren't LW's but are more of their own party, I believe it still counts as a battle).

Amake

10-16-2004, 11:44 AM

Now that/if WM has lost her travelling companion, does that mean that she will have to travel with the light warriors indeffinatly. After all, WM won't be very good at watching the light warriors on her own.
Yep, it would make sense, and it would be a liberating step away from the game mechanics. They don't have an actual reason to be limited to a team of four these days. :D

Neutral

10-16-2004, 11:57 AM

Notice that BM's death was not serious at all comparing BB's death. It was spmthing like: BM died. That's all. While BB's death was much ,uch more dramatical.

Lost in Time

10-16-2004, 12:23 PM

Yeah, BM's death wasn't that serious. But the way Fighter took his death was powerful...

Ganurath

10-16-2004, 01:20 PM

On a second note, someone should make a magic card for Kary.Kary, Fiery Mistress of Mount Gurgu 3RRR
Legendary Creature- Elemental Shaman
Doublestrike
1R: Deal 1 damage to target creature or player.
1: Deal 1 damage to target creature Kary damaged this turn.
3/4
"Why do they come to die?"

Fighter took it even worse than when the giant smashed BM.

01d55

10-16-2004, 02:02 PM

Whether WM knows the life spell, and uses it to restore BB, depends entirely on whether Brian wants her to.

So far, it looks like everyone of importance comes back. But that doesn't mean it will be easy.

SpawnOfThrawn

10-16-2004, 02:14 PM

Hmm, Now that I've had to think about it, I wonder if losing her traveling companion and confidant is going to make WM snap. Not "make out with BM" snap, but "suddenly turn evil and lay waste" snap.

My Lead Airbag

10-16-2004, 02:14 PM

I think BB's still alive, or will at least come back. If you wanna compare BM's to BB's, you also have to remember Fighter's half-page long reaction to his friend's death (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040214), his page long remembering of how they met (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040217), and another half a page reminiscing on their junior adventures. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040219)

Ganurath

10-16-2004, 04:15 PM

Hmm, Now that I've had to think about it, I wonder if losing her traveling companion and confidant is going to make WM snap. Not "make out with BM" snap, but "suddenly turn evil and lay waste" snap.The latter snap will make the former snap more likely, wouldn't it? Not to mention BM, in a way, tried to prevent it from happening. (Let's reason with her.) He may bring this point up on Tuesday.

SpawnOfThrawn

10-16-2004, 04:36 PM

The latter snap will make the former snap more likely, wouldn't it? Not to mention BM, in a way, tried to prevent it from happening. (Let's reason with her.) He may bring this point up on Tuesday.
Perhaps, I could even see WM tossing out some major innuendo. But, knowing Brian, she'd snap out of it for some reason or other (BB coming back as an angel?) before anything happened.

Dragonsbane

10-16-2004, 05:12 PM

This comic got me thinking of the overly criptic 434 (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040626) again. Could BB's "walking the path" view of life have led to the Yellow Speaker's "inevitable chain of events" mentality?

Could Black Belt be the Red Speaker?

From the dialogue in that comic, BM is the only potential Yellow Speaker, and he would never talk to BB like that, with anything resembling respect...unless BB somehow becomes the avatar of all good, just like BM became (and might become again, if Kary kills him too) the avatar of all evil.

That could be the dialogue of their final battle!

swifters

10-16-2004, 05:25 PM

Judging by the more respectful tone of BM and the Yellow Speaker's agitated tone, I'd say the Rep Speaker is probably WM. (Oh, and in regards to the poster who used the text color to decipher who the speakers were, the text color doesn't have anything to do with it. I mean, come on, no one has yellow text.)

Trixbeat

10-16-2004, 06:31 PM

Interesting theory about heroes dying to fiends. If that's the case, it would probably be thief who falls against Tiamat, but I dunno.

Ganurath

10-16-2004, 07:14 PM

Two new theories as to who the red speaker is: Fighter. This (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030819) proves that BM's malign nature is getting through Fighter's thick skull. BM has always wanted to confront Fighter in wanton violence. Fighter may decide he needs to stop BM, possibly from annihilating RM and Thief.
Or: WM. In this case, it isn't a final showdown that's about to happen. It's BM and WM getting down. If you read the dialogue in that context, it still makes sense.

Wetflame

10-16-2004, 07:38 PM

Brian is a great writer who is ALWAYS one step ahead of everyone.
NOBODY could have guessed that; really; if anything they would have guessed White Mage died.

This is a simply amazing comic. It's so freaky to look back and the other comic, and see it representing it like a warped dream. I love being freaked out like that, sort of like the ending of the Usual Suspects, but more mystical; like in Sandman where you see bits of the end of the series long before it actually ends; but never make sense of them until it does.

Gets you wondering.

8 Bit Theater is much more dark, and has much more of a backbone than I ever thought, and still manages to be so random and funny. This makes it, without a doubt, one of the best comics I've ever read, let alone webcomic.

Hmm, it would be interesting if they fought BM. I wouldn't be surprised, because he says "I'll kill them all anyway, but at least we can laugh about it". And he does.

I'm pretty sure Black Mage is the Red speaker. It sounds like him.

Also, remember this - http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010925 ?

Chaos is meant to be one of the most horrible creatures
Wouldn't BM be a more likely candidate to be Chaos than Garland?

The description of Magick in that comic reminds me of some decriptions of Chaos - Chaos is the possiblity; the will to choose - which Black Belt didn't have; and Black Mage too. Maybe it's a dramatic irony that Chaos himself is forced to be him?

There *is* that Wallpaper of course; but maybe they put Chaos in Garland's body? Or of course, it's just pretty wallpaper.

Remember, we *never see* what Black Mage's face looks like; maybe it's because it's the face of Chaos, only his body is in the shape of a man?

Red Mage's comment interests me too - http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=011010

I really get the feeling there's a Kaiser Schoze thing going on with Black Mage.

Also, remember Fighter's destiny? Maybe that's why Black Mage *really* keeps trying to stab him; perhaps he can't harm him with Magic.
Similiary, this may be his motivation to mate with White Mage; coax her onto his side, maybe he could use her healing magic? Or if they mated, they would create the ultimate being?
And perhaps stabbing Red Mage was to prevent his ascension.
Or maybe RM was talking about BM's ascension?

If BM was Chaos, this would explain *exactly* how he was able to take over "hell". He was Chaos! When Chaos was freed from his "mortal body" - his power no longer had any limits. Chaos no longer limited.

If BB was truly meant to oppose him,

It would explain why he can cast a Level 9 spell, too.

Just some strange insight.

I think his heart may be "changed" by the Light Warriors in the end; to fight against a greater evil.

So maybe BB does die; and the ending is sooner than you think.

So, that would make 4 light warriors, Fighter, Red Mage, Thief, White Mage, up against Chaos.

Or maybe all 6 up a Chaos 2...

Maybe BM finally turns into Chaos, and uses his power to save everyone instead?

Who would be more evil than Chaos?

I'd really love if a lot of seemingly random things were connected like this, especially because of Chaos. And then of course a whole load of stuff really IS still random, and it makes it seem even stranger.

Actually, that "another weird comic" one *really* does seem to scream to me that Black Mage is Chaos.

Best theory yet =P

Lycanthrope

10-16-2004, 07:43 PM

Wetflame, the redspeaker cannot be black mage. Black mage had nothing funny happen at Gugru that he was not the victim of. I think the prophecy that episode represents hasn't come to fruishion yet...

Wetflame

10-16-2004, 07:47 PM

Sorry, I clicked post before I got to finish. Re-read =P
Also, the "we" interests me... maybe it's Black Mage fused with Chaos =P I dunno. or the lightwarriors speaking as one.

talse

10-16-2004, 08:00 PM

actually, i do think that the red is :bmage:. it could be after the quest is done, and brian is thinking, "People are made happy by my comic, i want to keep making people happy!" so he thinks up an extended plotline. in this plotline, the evil has been defeated, and after a while, :bmage: just starts to kill people. and after he's killed 4 of our 6 heroes, all thats left is white mage. as he walks up to her with a sack in his hand, he takes out fighters hand and throws it at her feet and says. "The poor idiot wanted a hug." and this is what causes the blood on the robes we saw in the vision. but anyway. then he goes on his diatribe. and from then on it gets up to speculation.

and people can observe things after the fact and find them humorous even it if was bad for them at the time. also, it could just be that :bmage: sarcasm we've grown to love.

Robo-Ninja

10-16-2004, 08:03 PM

I think that the red speaker could be Thief after he becomes a ninja. If there is a class change, anyway. Fighter never talks like that and neither does Red Mage. I think that White Mage's textboxes would be pink, so that rules out her.

Skyshot

10-16-2004, 08:05 PM

Impressive, Wetflame. I like your logic.

However, how do you figure these into your theories:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010521
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030923
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010618

Wetflame

10-16-2004, 08:13 PM

Wait a second...
You're forgetting one thing:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040911

I bet that was Black Belts double; talking with Black Belt. Maybe Black Belt only *has* one double, and Black Mage never really killed him =P

EDIT: Sorry, didn't see that. Anyway, I don't see how the White Mage thing goes against it, except that he really is attracted to White Mage =P Opposites Attract remember? Naturally rivarly is against the males; and if he "mates" with the only female who can oppose him, he's invincible.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010618

Now that's interesting, but I think that figures in with my theory better. If you notice it's quite similiar to the "Ley-line" comic.

Maybe the Onion Kid will be the "Final Boss"?

Ganurath

10-16-2004, 08:25 PM

Wait a second...
You're forgetting one thing:

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040911

I bet that was Black Belts double; talking with Black Belt. Maybe Black Belt only *has* one double, and Black Mage never really killed him =PNegative. BB's double is a statue in Garland's pond. As for BB's ultimate fate, I'd theorize that his martyrdom while make the Light Warriors the full circle of five:

Roles:
Melee- Fighter
Ranged- RM (twinky throwing knives!)
Stealth- Thief
Healer- WM
Blaster- BM

Idealogies:
Orderly Zealot- WM
Life-loving simpleton- Fighter
Emotional berserk- BM
Self-serving backstabber- Thief
Logical adept- RM

Thus, his death serves a higher purpose.

Wetflame

10-16-2004, 08:29 PM

Okay!

I found something REALLY fucking cool. Notice in the Onion Kid comic,

Do a search on Hyle, and Chaos.

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/forman_chaos.html

Apparently Hyle and Chaos are some kinds of opposing Kingdoms in some Christian or Jewish Religon (is it Kabblah?)

I also found this:

"First Order: Elementary."

"1. Chaos, Hyle, the first matter.
2. Formless, void, lifeless.
3. The Abyss.
4. Origin of the Elements.
5. Earth (no seed germs).
6. Water.
7. Air.
8. Fire.
9. Differentiation of qualities.
10. Mixture and combination."

Just a *very* interesting little tidbit.

As for "Idealogies"; it's probably best to go with the alignments. As I see them -

Thief - Chaotic Neutral
Black Mage - Chaotic "Evil"
Fighter - Chaotic Good
Red Mage - Lawful/Neutral Neutral (Neutral when changing char sheet =P)
White Mage - Lawful Good
Black Belt - Neutral Good

I'm not sure about Black Belt though... It makes sense that all of the main 4 except RM would be chaotic =P

Loyal

10-16-2004, 08:35 PM

Quite. It is, indeed, something to think about...

Or, it is until you consider that BM is a mass-murdering psycho, and is only out to gain power. WM is a tool of lust to him, not a means to power. BM stabs Fighter because of Fighter's overwhelming incompetence; The same holds true for RM. He is evil, and takes pride in it. He embraces the side of evil; His very essence is that of pure evil. He cares not of the means to the end, and would rather do something that would gain him the power he seeks in one fell swoop. He wants any and all forms of power he can get his blood-stained hands on. Forms of power such as these:

Transformative Magic. (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030712)

Control over hell (Which was lost, much to his chagrin). (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040228)

The exponential power increase from being a giant (Only speculation, but still a desire) (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=020611)

Immense power from Chaos (He wants to team up with Chaos. You can't team up with yourself). (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030325)

Rebuttal, please!

EDIT: That was responding to Post #73.

Wetflame

10-16-2004, 08:36 PM

Also, just one point - in the first BB weird comic, it had a pic of chaos, in the second, a reference to anyone who cared to look it up.

Also, I wasn't stating his approach to the light warriors as firm support to my theory; more just extras if the theory proves right.

And I don't think the "teaming up with chaos" holds much ground - if anything it's an ironic foreshadow of the theory being "proven".

Also, he DID go to Hell, and did he Team up with Chaos? No, but he did get an incredible amount of power.

So that means if I'm rigth, that the Lich overthrew Chaos. Interesting :)

Oh - and just because he's Chaos doesn't mean he's reached he's all powerful. He's yet to reach his final form, for one ;)

Also, did you notice how Matoya called RM skippy, and then the Head Demon dude gets called by BM, skippy?

And doesn't it sound more right that Chaos rather than black Mage would get an entire section of Hell?

Mad Jack the Pirate

10-16-2004, 08:53 PM

maybe BM is chaos, but he doesn't realize it?

Ganurath

10-16-2004, 09:24 PM

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010925
There are places of power.
Hadoken.
Places of DESTINY.
Meeting Fighter, followed by Thief, followed by WM. RM was just nosey, and Red Mage would have gone for the job.
Holy places where ley lines cross and the whole countryside surges with magical energy.
The little kid's mind would've snapped to previous mages coming and going. BM must have an intersection in the leylines.
Some say the forces of fate are drawn to these places.
WM follows the LWs around constantly because of their great destiny.
That each is a nexus.
BM's demonic lord aura.
The point where the tides of history will be turned.
He ended the war between Dwarves and Elves in favor of the Elves.
Where the world is forever changed.
The wizard who did it accidentally destroyed a Utopia to shut BM up. BM's botched Hadoken reshaped our own planet, proving 8BT takes place 6.5 bil years ago.
A Nexus is both a blessing and a curse.
Omnipotent, yet fickle and insane.
They are a powerful resource to whomever claims them.
Thief got BM to rout the dwarves.
He who possesses a Nexus, it is said, has the power to change the WORLD.
He created a hellhole, destroyed an ancient empire, and indirectly commited genocide twice.
But they are so hotly contested among mages and kings that meerly defending a Nexus can be the dismantling of an entire nation.
Prontera. Nuff said.
Ley lines are eternal but they are not unchanging. Indeed, it is in their very nature to be in a constant state of flux, to be ever-changing.
BM's imfamous day of dual Hadokens.
This is life. This is magik. Not the mere parlor tricks of circle sorcery.
BM could put the wupass on Matoya if he didn't want to know here Frog Spell.
Magik is the incarnation of will and it's impression upon the face of reality. Not a sad scrawl upon an ancient parchment.
BM's ugliness drove a kid insane. That's an ugly face of reality.
As such, one may never predict when a Nexus may fade away or where a new one may be born.
Gurgu must be a Nexus to keep a dragon and Kary peacably close.
But what would happen if a Nexus was not born as a place... but as a man?
We have 471 episodes of comics explaining what happens.

SpawnOfThrawn

10-16-2004, 09:25 PM

That would explain why he dreampt of being Chaos instead of talking about it.

This could also explain why the onion kid was traumatized so badly by seeing BM's face. What would drive someone more insane than seeing the infinate choices ahead and behind them. The only reason a kid wouldn't be driven insane is that he would still see many paths, instead of having chosen one.

Bauglir

10-16-2004, 09:57 PM

As has been said repeatedly, Hell King BM has the yellow text.

talse

10-16-2004, 10:35 PM

As has been said repeatedly, Hell King BM has the yellow text.

we shouldn't base off of that, but that just supports my theory more. post adventure, :bmage: becomes hell king again and :wmage: becomes white wizardress. but keeps the robes for kicks.

SpawnOfThrawn

10-16-2004, 11:20 PM

we shouldn't base off of that, but that just supports my theory more. post adventure, :bmage: becomes hell king again and :wmage: becomes white wizardress. but keeps the robes for kicks.
...I thought she'd keep the robes to stay warm and dressed...

talse

10-16-2004, 11:25 PM

...I thought she'd keep the robes to stay warm and dressed...
oh don't be such a :fighter:, she'd keep them as an alternative to her wizard robes. which were differn lookin, and i think intended for manly use.

mepersoner

10-16-2004, 11:43 PM

Kary could've been narrating, BB could've gotten passed the point where he requires the chucks to fight and flung them aside.

Chief Justice Ninja

10-17-2004, 12:41 AM

Now that's just wishful thinking. Otherwise, why would WM be looking so glum and saying "Black-belt?" as though something terrible just happened to him.

Joseph Pandora

10-17-2004, 12:42 AM

Kary could've been narrating, BB could've gotten passed the point where he requires the chucks to fight and flung them aside.

Possible but infinately unlikely.

Psycrow

10-17-2004, 12:55 AM

The "mystery episode" is easy to figure out. BM says "One day I'll look back on this and laugh... I'll still kill them all but it'll be funny" or whatever he says (too lazy too look up the exact words). But that's exactly what the episode's about. You'll notice the last box before that says, "Heh, that was pretty funny", indicating him laughing about it. It's BM in the future, talking to WM (the only one of the group who were there who talks the way that the person in the pink box did), at the end of the mission, whatever and whenever that may be. (Some of this was said here too but I'd figured it out already, but this is my first post lol)

Unrelated, I think the theory about BM becoming chaos sounds very possible. And if BB really did die (phoenix down or life would still have to be accounted for) and BM became Chaos, then that would mean the new light warriors are RM, Thief, Fighter, and White Mage... those 4 fighting BM at the end.

If BB really died though, pity, he's the least known of the bunch (though this also makes his death the easiest to accept)-- coulda used some character development there. And some more foreshadowing for what was going to happen, so it doesn't just seem random. Just my opinion.

Incidentally, if everyone had an element like they do in Chrono Cross, I'd associate BB with Earth, Thief with Air, Fighter with Fire, and RM with Water (BM and WM's are obvious). The Fire vs Water thing is why Fighter is kicking so much ass there (he's in his own element, Fire-- when they entered he read the runes easily, and killed a monster during someone else's conversation effortlessly, and he's also the one who got the fire armor and can walk across the lava); and why RM got his ass kicked on multiple occasions in this place but he also defeated the fire dragon (water/ice vs fire). It's either going to be Fighter who kills Kary, or RM. Fighter because he's in his element, or RM because he's very much not. I'm guessing Fighter because RM dispatched the dragon.

Mike McC

10-17-2004, 01:36 AM

Just a few things.

Observation: Brian never does the expected, unless the expected is unexpected in and of itself.

Speculation: Comic 434's content isn't important to the battle with Kary right now. And I think it will be quite a while before it's true meaning is apparent. The fact that there is so much division over what it means is proof of that.

As to why Comic #434 isn't important right now, look to the 'bloodstained' panel. They way they are tralking about Gurgu Volcano shows it had happened quite a while in the past.... they wouldn't be talking like that now in the fight with Kary, as it happened around a day ago.

Bells

10-17-2004, 04:31 AM

I cant belive that only one of yopu guys really give the credit to the BB Being 4th DW idea... it really makes sense!! it could be happening (althought i stil thhink that i can be Ranger....)

As for the time being... WM will do something.. but she wont gho bersekr,,, simply because that was done already... as prior stated here they wont use Phoenix down, because really, when did you guys see any of then buying ANY thing?
MAYBE WM could use a Life Spell, but is unlikly... either way, some big change is coming to her, and i belive that WM and BB will be living the scne for a while... ( Redenption? maybe WM went to give BB a decent funeral, and they come back later on, both alive )

shiney

10-17-2004, 06:25 AM

BB won't be the 4th DW, of that I am certain.

And BM is the yellow text, as Brian made moderately clear, in saying "Look at such and such episode where BM has the exact same text. Gee. :B"

He may be ridiculously secretive and make obscure references, but when he gets fairly direct he doesn't tend to purposefully mislead people.

The only bit left unsaid is who the red text is. Believe me, I wouldn't spread random crap around unless it were to benefit me in some way. Mwaha.

swifters

10-17-2004, 07:33 AM

I think it's pretty well established that WM is the Red Speaker. For one, she's the only one intelligent enough to speak to BM that way, and she's the only one BM respects enough to speak two panels with without mentioning a stabbity death. Some mentioned Fighter somehow gaining enough of a brain to speak like the Red Speaker, but that doesn't mean much. Fighter respects BM, the Red Speaker does not. Two, the text hasn't anything to do with it, so that can't be a factor (I wasn't aware BM's text was yellow during the Hell King stint, but that doesn't change the fact that WM could still become an ultimate good and change her text.) as some have suggested.

I think one big question besides who the speakers are is what exactly is taking place/about to take place when the two are speaking. I'm gonna say it's dialogue before the final or some major fight. After all, it's WM talking to BM for one. That almost always assures some violence.

shiney

10-17-2004, 07:51 AM

If you think about it though, if it's far into the future, who's to say fighter hasn't come to terms with his own naiveté, understood what Vargas and Dr. Swordopolis were trying to tell him so long ago, and realised how BM is? Maybe they've both come to terms with it and drudged out a mutual respect for each other.

There's no guarantee in any way whatsoever of who the red speaker is. All we have is how people act now, only having just gotten to the second fiend. And even now they are very different from how they were in the very beginning. WM is slowly losing her competence and sanity it seems. Fighter is still dumb but he's having more flashes of competence and insight. RM is a bungling idiot who sometimes has workable plans. Thief isn't obsessed constantly with thievery. Even BM doesn't take every opportunity to stab something or to talk about stabbing something. Given the chance for a single gag Brian would no doubt revive every aspect of those characters in a heartbeat, but the fact is they are developing beyond the one-dimensional constructs they used to be. They are becoming real characters.

So there's no guarantee of if the red speaker is fighter, RM, WM, or even thief - I mean there's a class change coming right? If BM (blue text now) became yellow, then anyone could be red.

Wetflame

10-17-2004, 08:01 AM

I agree with Shiney - there has been some real character development.

And after rereading the panel, yes it is very obvious that the orange/yellow text box is Black Mage.
Red Box is probably either White Mage; or Black Belt, because they're the ones that opened the door on him, and ignored him. I'd nearly swing towrds Black Belt, as the panels *do* foreshadow BB's death.
It's possible it's Fighter, but I'm not so sure.
And if WM finally realised it, then she would probably appear a lot more competent.

"Don't you hate yourself for it? For never having seen it coming until now?"
"Every little thing is so painfully obvious now, isn't it? Now that it's too late, you have all the answers don't you?"

Hmm, what could he be talking about...

Also, further effort to support my theory.

If BB dies, and BM becomes Chaos, who would be left? Red Mage, Fighter, Thief and White Mage.

Who are the "real" Light Warriors?

Red Wizard, Knight, Ninja and White Wizard.

I always *Wondered* why he chose those 4, and had White Wizard instead of Black Wizard.

Either that, or Black Mage ebcomes White Wizard XD That'd be pretty funny.

Maybe the "Real" Light Warriors are the current ones sent back in time, trying to fix what "went wrong" and not doing a hugely good job of it...

swifters

10-17-2004, 08:10 AM

Shiney, you bring up some good points. However, the changes the characters have undergone so far are quite minute in relation to the thought of Fighter actually becoming competent. Theif still likes to steal and run away, RM is still obsessed with stats, WM is still a traditional goody-goody with a hatred for BM, and Fighter is still the dumb one with a reverance for BM. And we're nearly halfway through the FF1 storyline. It's simply not plausible that any one character would undergo enough change to gain enough intelligence to be the Red Speaker.

Edit; Uhh... I think I accidentally reported someone's post while trying to press the next page link. I didn't intend it, so please don't ban me for frivolous reporting.

Wetflame

10-17-2004, 08:14 AM

So who is the red speaker then?

Skyshot

10-17-2004, 08:26 AM

I personally always thought that the red speaker was someone omnipotent, i.e., Fate, Chronocops, Sarda the Red-Robed One, etc. "Why did you do it like that?" "We thought it'd be funny." That indicates a mortal speaking to an omnipotent to me.

Brian has stated in the official thread for #434 that we'll have to wait a LONG time for the answer, and it's only been several months. I can't help but think that Gurgu plays a role only in the blood panel, and the rest refers to something else.

Wetflame

10-17-2004, 08:40 AM

Yes, I did consider it could be Sarda, or a god.

Also, I wonder if we'll ever see Summons in 8 Bit? I thought Brian hated them, but thinking back, it was only the long drawn out 5 minute long seqeuences, rather than the FF4/5/6 ones.

Maybe BM, in fact, has Chaos as his summon.

mammothtank

10-17-2004, 09:07 AM

My first post!

Here's a theory. If the yellow speaker is BM, then the red speaker is WM, but the conversation is occuring after the "final battle" as opposed to before it. Since the yellow speaker (i.e. BM) is looking back at his life, it is reasonable to assume that WM managed to beat him, and is discussing fate with him before he dies.

talse

10-17-2004, 11:37 AM

we know for a fact that there is indeed a corpse or corpse-to-be at :wmage: feet. i think it's one of the companions. but, if we're going into the whole time travel deal like wetflame said, then it is quite likely that it's :bbelt: who is a corpse. because then :bmage: gets beaten somehow by :wmage:, and then white mage, red mage, thief and fighter go back in time to try and fix how black mage really F'ed up the world.

Skyshot

10-17-2004, 11:38 AM

One problem I'm seeing in these theories is people assume that the "Why did you do it like that?" line refers to something that has already happened. They haven't left Gurgu yet, people.

Actually, one confusing part of that was it seemed to be set in the future, what with the above-quoted line, but then we see Black Mage plastered to the ex-DeathTrap in the present. Clearly, Brian wants us to be clueless.

Chances are, the answer is something nobody has come up with yet, and never will come up with. In that case, all we do is speculate while Brian sits at his computer and laughs his head off at how wrong we are. Then he fuels that spite into his comics with more confusing stuff.

Anyways, isn't this the episode 471 thread? Talk about BB's philosophy in this one and bump the 434 one if possible.

Loyal

10-17-2004, 12:33 PM

If BB dies, and BM becomes Chaos, who would be left? Red Mage, Fighter, Thief and White Mage.

Who are the "real" Light Warriors?

Red Wizard, Knight, Ninja and White Wizard.

I always *Wondered* why he chose those 4, and had White Wizard instead of Black Wizard.

Well, I've laid down my weapons and surrendered with that. That has convinced me that BM may very well take Garland's place as Chaos.

And now to see Brian's response to it (If any).

Wetflame

10-17-2004, 12:38 PM

I really hope I didn't spoil it now. Although, even if I have, there's going to be another incredible plot twist straight after that, so me predicting correctly will only give you a false sense of security =P

BM being Chaos is almost a little obvious, since Chaos was shown in his "character's mind" comic, so I'm guessing this is true.

Problem with Time Travel is that it opens up the doorway for just about anything to happen...

Such as this =P http://forum.nuklearpower.com/showthread.php?t=6595&page=2

Bells

10-17-2004, 12:58 PM

Who is the Red Speaker? Simply! Wait untill the flash version of that episode is realeased and hear it out u_u.... (well... you could...)

He... i dont belive that brian would make THAT easy... so, BM is Chaos, because the True LW dont have a Black WIzard with then? C'mon....

anyway... Brian Did make some observations crossing the ways that 8BT and His book wore written... so... maybe one can give clues about the other in a mather of comparing "developing curves" of the story.... well... if you read then both, you know what im saying now....... ( dont Spoil Dont Spoil Dont Spoil.... )

Remember, even knowing all fo this, this far, we all know a LOT of BM and Fighters young age and life, on the form of flash backs who wore given to us along the way, but there wasnt that much info displayed for the others (Thief would be a small exception since his "story arch" is kinda of conclued after his father was healed ) maybe now is the chance do get deeper on how WM and BB started together, their lives before all of this...

the true questions warent answered yet...
What is Fighters destiny? Why did his master toss him out of Fighters Camp'86 when he answered the last question ( wich would be the right answer apparently )

Isnt RM getting a little... set aside on all this? he is the character with less development until now... more of a "comedy sidekick" up to this point...

What will happend to WM now? how is this affecting her? After all... she kinda did... send BB to his doom.... and she is the most emotional character

With ALL os this happening, WERE could thief be now?!

And off course... would it be a little too obvious that BM becomes their last enemy? i dont think thats the way to go here...
And on a side note... if WM gets depressed with blame ( Evangelion Style... ) would BM try to confort her?

i really think that THOSE are better questions to hope for answers

Wetflame

10-17-2004, 01:00 PM

He... i dont belive that brian would make THAT easy... so, BM is Chaos, because the True LW dont have a Black WIzard with then? C'mon....

I made a hell of a lot more points than that, wheras this is your entire counter argument =P

Bells

10-17-2004, 01:14 PM

Im not ignoring the possibility o_O
just saying that THIS argument aint close to enough

it just like saying that Kary was fighter mom becuase they both had similar spirte colors and use swords u_u'....

Wetflame

10-17-2004, 01:30 PM

No, it isn't.

We never had a picture of Kary in the background of Fighter's "inside the mind of" comic (Was there even one of those?).
Kary and Fighter are in no way related in principle - wheras we know that both Chaos and Black Mage are extremely powerful yet power hungry beings, who are malign in intent; and are both sources of mystical energy.
They're both the "Epitomes of evil" in two different ways. Black Mage is just like the guy who comes to an RPG, who's a decent guy, but a bit too abstracted to realise what he's really doing.

I believe that Black Mage, deep down, is actually a decent but slightly bloody minded guy, being controlled by all the power. As he said, his path was laid down for him. He couldn't make the choice to be good.

I posted many points, please read over my post and respond to as many points as possible if you intend to argue.

Rhana

10-17-2004, 01:51 PM

I'd just keep in mind that this is a COMIC, a PARODY... whatever the answer is, it's probably going to be both bizarre and ironic. When has actual emotion and melodrama ever gone unmocked in this strip?
Sit back and enjoy the ride! :p

Wetflame

10-17-2004, 01:52 PM

I suppose, but if my theory proves right, here is a serious undertone that we didn't see in the first place.

And I don't remember the actual "Weird" comics being made fun of directly - not their content anyway.

evileeyore

10-17-2004, 02:24 PM

Episode 471 was so damn good, it caused me to register.

That is power, for I am to lazy as :bmage: is to stabbity, hadoken, and evil.

I think you guys are reading way more into the characters than they are. I see them as caricatures of basic bad roleplayers.

Black Mage= "I came to this game to kill things on a whim, gain power, and advance my own causes. I only travel with these other losers because otherwise there would be no game, and thus no fun for me." type player.

Points to remember about BM styles: 1-What does this situation have to do with me? 2-Why aren't we making it more about what I want? 3-You are stoopid for not doing things my way.

Fighter= "I want to kill stuff and go on quests. You guys are here to help kill stuff, do questy stuff, and gets me a new (insert favorite weapon). Buyah, a quest with new weapons and stuff to kill!" type player.

Points to remember about Fighter styles: 1-Why aren't I killing stuff? 2-Why aren't we going somewhere to kill stuff? 3-Dude check out my shiny new (insert favorite weapon).

Theif= 'I want mad bling-bling. You guys are here to help fill my Bottomless Bag with Gil." type player.

Points to remember about about Theif types: 1-Why aren't I getting rich yet? 2-Why aren't we doing stuff to make me rich? 3-You guys need to give me all your stuff so I can be rich.

Red Mage= "I love my 'special' dice, they always roll high (or low as needed). Yes I took that class, don't you remember we needed those skills for that thing, so I got them. I only travel with you twerps so you can swoon over my massive stats and extensive abilities." type player.*

Points to remember about Red Mage types: 1-I have the perfect skills/stats/items for this situation, you may applaud now. 2-Those other guys are never around when I do ultra cool stuff, I'll have to tell them about it later. 3-Don't worry (insert other class here), I can everything you do, as well if not better.*

White Mage= "I want to do good. We should quest to do good. There isn't enough goodness in the world.' type player.

Points to remember about White Mage types: 1-That is not how we do good. 2-Yes the end was good, but burning down the orphanage to get there was not. 3-My soul feels dirty just being on the same continent with you.

Black Belt= "I do weird stuff the DM never plans for. I travel with these guys cuase weirdness abounds and it gives me more orportunities to do off the wall and impossible stuff." type players

Points to remember about Black Belt types: 1-DM you can't plan for me. 2-I can talk through walls and walk my way through conversations. 3-Your Kung-Fu is good but no match for my Deja-Fu attack.

Anyway that was long, and now I am too lazy to ...

[EDIT]
* I am ignoring the cheating aspect of Red Mage. That is a caricature all in itself. And my hate for cheaters is an unamed bonus.

Wetflame

10-17-2004, 04:13 PM

No body can stay that way for 471 episodes. Shiney said himself that Brian was developing the characters. I agree that that's what they began as, and made that point about BM myself, but they aren't 1 dimensional parodies.

evileeyore

10-17-2004, 05:18 PM

I don't see it.

Fighter is still talking about sword-chucks (hilarity ensues), Theif is still stealing/sneaking/lying, Red Mage is still MinMaxing/UberSkilling/Cheating, Black Mage is still a homicidal/powermad/WM lusting monkey, White Mage is still a goody-goody, Black Belt is still temporarily wacked/finds the 'backway'...

...right up till 470.

Then Black Mage promotes Reason (all be it stoopidly), White Mage promotes violence against the villian, and Black Belt makes a frontal assault. All things I don't believe were ever seen previously in 8BT (Okay :wmage: hammering :bmage: doesn't count as violence against a villian...).

Yeah the backstories have been developed, more insightful reasoning given for the way they are, but in the end they are the same characters they were over 3 1/2 years ago.

Not that thats a bad thing mind you. I was hooked back then, and have loved every episode since.

You can't convince me that easily rabbit--EvilE

anphorus

10-17-2004, 06:01 PM

(First Post, yay)

In reference to episode 434 (http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=040626) again, it’s been established that the yellow speaker is BM. My theory about the red speaker is that it is WM, from the perspective of BM dying far into the future; the text still makes sense in this context, as well as explaining the blood on WM's robes. ("It’s not too late," "It is for some people.)

:bbelt: As for Black Belt, the emotion in this comic tells me that BB either isn't completely dead, or he's just not coming back. Period. I honestly can't see Brian expecting us fans to accept BB using idiocy to bend space-time to save himself, not this time.

I also agree that the characters are developing, all you have to do is read earlier comics and then compare them to the latest comics; sure they still retain the core of their personality, that's what makes them who we love: BM's desire for chaotic destruction; Fighter's stupidity; Thief’s desire to steal everything that isn't nailed down or on fire and RM's cheaty/twinkery nature, and so on. But the characters have changed, perhaps subtlety, but they've definitely grown.

swordmaster

10-17-2004, 09:19 PM

It was bound to happen eventually.

Morat

10-18-2004, 12:09 AM

...White Mage promotes violence against the villian, and Black Belt makes a frontal assault. All things I don't believe were ever seen previously in 8BT (Okay hammering doesn't count as violence against a villian...).
White Mage told BB to use violence against Garland.

Black Belt made frontal assaults against both Garland and that random monster that nearly ate him.

Nugan

10-18-2004, 12:42 AM

Wow, I can't believe I'm about to make some ub3r-fanboi post on a webcomic message board, but I have to admit it, Brain hooked me with that cliffhanger.

Anyway, my little bit to add to the speculation about 434:

I agree that there's no question that the yellow speaker is BM. I don't think there's any question there. I also think this takes place sometime near the end of the comic, possibly after BM becomes and/or teams up with Chaos.

However, I have trouble believing the red speaker is WM, because of the following lines: "That's not how it works. There is no grand story to history." "Things just happen. Its the act of looking back on them that interposes a sense of narrative." My issue is that WM has always been a believer in fate. That's what's driving her to do just about everything she does. A belief in fate doesn't jive well with those two lines. Those lines are from someone who thinks of history as a bunch of random events we bring meaning to through our own perceptions, not someone who would embark on a quest to save the world based on a vague prophecy. Of course, BM's lines also sounds somewhat like a role-reversal, so its possible that whatever happened changed both of thier perspectives on fate.

If I had to guess, based on the personalities of the light warriors right now, I would say those statements would most likely come from RM, since he's more given to philosophy, or thief, since he tends more towards a chaotic view of existence. However, if this is the "last battle", I would almost lean towards an enlightened fighter, only because things tend to come full circle in fantasy, so it would make sense to end with the same two characters you began with.

A few other thoughts:

"Its not too late." "It is for some people." - This seems to imply that not only one major character has died, but several. Now, that could simply mean BB plus EPS plus KS plus some other less important recurring characters, but it could also mean we'll be waving goodbye to at least one more big name.

The backrounds - I think they may foreshadow important events that have yet to happen, but will not happen at the same time. First frame looks like a volcano, so it probably foreshadows BB's death. Second and third frames are beyond me, but we should probably keep our eyes open for similar images. I think the fourth frame foreshadows not some dying person bleeding on WM, but WM's death, which I think will either be caused by BM in the act of gaining power or be the event that pushes him over the edge. I think she and BB are the best canidates for the "some people" in the comic.

Just my thoughts.

Mike McC

10-18-2004, 01:07 AM

Out of all the speculation on comic #434, Nugan's seems to be the most likely. I've looked at the backgrounds of the panels people don't seem to be able to decipher in that one, and what I see is:

1st panel's background looks to be water, land, and clouds, as if one is looking down upon them from a great height.
2nd panel's background is the one people relate to lava or the volcano.
3rd panel's background looks like something is moving very fast, perhaps through the sky.

.... This may be wrong, but I would think those two panels (the first and third) would be what BM was seeing in the present of the comic.

And to all those peopkle who are interpreting the "We thought it would be funny" line as proof of a combined conciousness or omnipotent beign... come off of it. Seriously. The most likely explination is "We (me and the other four in the deathtrap) thought it would be funny." I mean, does every single time you use 'we' make it so you have combined conciousness with another person? This isn't the borg, people. You're reading way too much into a little pronoun.

Krylo

10-18-2004, 01:56 AM

Actually, the first panel looks more like the sky to me, with dark clouds. It has a water painted feeling to it. It could be looking down, but really, that's beside the point.

The point is that the second panel's background is EXACTLY the same as Hell King BM's energy, followed immediately by a background that looks like a flash of pure light in a very akira toriyama looking blast. Then you have the blood smattered on white mage's robe.

And, if you look at the text, it's obvious that they're both at the end. "It's all going to end here" and "One last thing," followed directly by the blood smattered robes of white mage.

Further, the change is already beginning in white mage. She even asked Black Belt what he thought the consequences of using the wrong heros to stop chaos would be, and he told her it wouldn't really matter. She's been doubting destiny, and the longer she goes along with them the more she's going to doubt. Look at her even in the fight with Kary. With Lich she refused to interfere because the light warriors must defeat the fiends, with Kary she ordered Black Belt to attack.

That whole thing foreshadows the end when Black Mage kills them all and then dies in the process of killing white mage. Hell, the last line in it even says that he'd kill them all. It's classic foreshadowing.

...And didn't we discuss the hell out of this back when THAT comic came out?

What is Fighters destiny? Why did his master toss him out of Fighters Camp'86 when he answered the last question ( wich would be the right answer apparently )The correct answer is one. One style. There are twelve techniques/forms/schools but they all should come together into one style. Fighter didn't realize that and that's why he was thrown out. Probably didn't realize it because he was too busy watching chicks in chainmail.

Bells

10-18-2004, 01:58 AM

i Take Shinryuu and Nugan's point of view and sign my name on then u.u

So... i Concur !

BTW.... red speaker....
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030821

RMS Oceanic

10-18-2004, 04:39 AM

Now to swing back through countless galaxies to return to the land of 'Topic'...

The grey blurs across BB make me reckon Kary used her Swords to end what was, at heart, a great character. :(

I hope he doesn't end up like that Aeris Fanfic I read where he comes back to life only to become evil and run off with Zack. Anyone but Zack!

Mad Jack the Pirate

10-18-2004, 05:02 AM

oh, come on people, do you really think Black mage bleeds red?

Mike McC

10-18-2004, 05:54 AM

The grey blurs across BB make me reckon Kary used her Swords to end what was, at heart, a great character. :(

Well, those grey blurs? Nunchucks, whirling at great speeds, being whirled by BB. Then BB hits Kary (as shown by the little shot of Kary with the blood being splattered a bit), then boom. Disintegration by fire, completely anhillating BB, but not his nunchucks.(which were probably thrown clear of the blast, given my primitive but workable knowledge of physics). So, no swords, just burnination.

And krylo, the green and browninsh blurs in the first panel look suspiciously like landmasses. It just looks so blurry and undefined because that's what Brian does to all the backgrounds nowadays.

RMS Oceanic

10-18-2004, 06:04 AM

Interesting point, but BB's chucks are brown, and the chains of them are the wrong shade of grey, by my reckoning.

I reiterate for my request for there not to be a change in the line up of the side of 'Good'.

And please, not Zack!

Mike McC

10-18-2004, 06:14 AM

Look closely at the blurs. If Brian is anything, he seems to do his special effects with meticulous detail. Now, looking at those blurs, you'll see ares with a lightish-'chain grey' color, and then other areas with a brownish-'wood stick' color, and the expected blurring gradiant bettween the two. Nope, no swords, just nunchucks being spun around at the speed of chuck.

Besides, why would Kary need to use her swords when it's much more efficient to just burn the fuck out of anyone, especially with her insanely-short-perhaps-even-nonexistant fuse? Swords have the tendency of not always killing things in one hit, and can be quite the annoyance for your impatient villain on the go.

Hawk one

10-18-2004, 07:01 AM

My obviously moronic and unsupported theory is that it -might- be Kary who's thinking all those things, and that she is the one dying.

The one thing that goes against me is the colour of the thought boxes. Clearly, it's more indicative of BB being the one thinking, what with the light blue shades and all.

And also, the few panels are indicating that BB is hitting the big one...

...But therein lies the whole issue: It's not acually showing the death of BB outright. So my entire point hinges on everything done in this strip was to make you -assume- it was BB that died when Kary was hitting the big one. Thats' all I have. And remember, there is a difference between outright lying and letting one lie to himself based on assumptions.

Oh well, it's 99.95% certain I'm wrong anyway.

evileeyore

10-18-2004, 08:02 AM

Besides, why would Kary need to use her swords when it's much more efficient to just burn the fuck out of anyone, especially with her insanely-short-perhaps-even-nonexistant fuse?

Oh maybe becuase she drew them?

Swords have the tendency of not always killing things in one hit, and can be quite the annoyance for your impatient villain on the go.

Because sword like slicey death is how Clevinger wants BB to die? Besides the blood spray and multiple 'sword-slash effects', tend to lead me towards believing BB is cut down by Kary's four armed sword technique.

I foresee a Fighter vs Kary sword battle with Figther somehow manging to defeat Kary and realizing the 'Only One School, but Twelve Techniques Destiny', or something.

--EvilE

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 08:19 AM

... yes, I agree. She drew her four swords, probably just to show off. Read the previous episode!

And maybe with ONE sword he stood a chance, but with 4, it's going to be more effective to cut off his legs before using her "Burnination".

I don't think I've ever anticipated a new episode as much as this. Brian's really holding us at the edge of our seats. I just hope he doesn't let us fall off.

secretskull

10-18-2004, 08:31 AM

What is Fighters destiny? Why did his master toss him out of Fighters Camp'86 when he answered the last question ( wich would be the right answer apparently )
The correct answer is one. One style. There are twelve techniques/forms/schools but they all should come together into one style. Fighter didn't realize that and that's why he was thrown out. Probably didn't realize it because he was too busy watching chicks in chainmail.
Acually the correct answer in my opinion would be too many to count because each fighter adapts the styles to their own uses creating practicly infinite styles.

SpawnOfThrawn

10-18-2004, 09:21 AM

PhantomFox

10-18-2004, 10:35 AM

Well, we now have the answer to that old riddle.
What's a worse idea than sword-chucks?
Two swordchucks

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 11:11 AM

But she doesn't have legs to cut off....

Anyways, who says he can't match her sword for sword? That's right, DUAL SWORDCHUCKS
:fighter: Sweet!

I said HE.

Bells

10-18-2004, 11:12 AM

Acually the correct answer in my opinion would be too many to count because each fighter adapts the styles to their own uses creating practicly infinite styles.

And this ( http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=010412 )

Leads me to belive that you're probably right

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 12:18 PM

I think it's fighter.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=011003

swifters

10-18-2004, 03:33 PM

I think it's fighter.

http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=011003

You think what is Fighter? There was no correlation between that post and the post above it, and the post above that is your's. There is absolutely no way in hell for the reader to figure out what the point of that post was, and the arbituary comic didn't exactly help. Mind clarifying?

shiney

10-18-2004, 03:44 PM

Maybe because Dr. Swordopolis was trying to say there is a greater meaning behind who he is and why he is a swordman. Thus creating a relation between the knowledgable and wise red speaker, and fighter himself, and suggesting that perhaps, perhaps he won't be a complete naive loser throughout the course of the whole comic.

swifters

10-18-2004, 03:52 PM

Dr. Swordopolis seemed to be saying he runs into Fighter-like idiots all the time. His visit with Fighter doesn't really seem to signify anything special, other than just trying to speak some sense to the poor fool.

shiney

10-18-2004, 04:06 PM

Then you missed the entire point of that comic and should take literature courses so you can understand it more accurately. It's not the "why do I get the idiots" part, it's the bit before. "Did you choose the sword or did the sword choose you". It was a mix of Brian's typical joking with the seriousness of his so-called 'weird' comics.

Suggesting that either it was destiny or it was free will. The acts we take imposing a sense of narrative. Do you see the correlation?

MFD

10-18-2004, 04:08 PM

Wow... so much to respond too... geez.

My opinion on the previous cryptic scene: I think the red texted talker is kary herself. A showdown of the magically enhanced, pointy object wielding, homicidal psychopaths.
The fact that the red speaker references BM's ride on the deathtrap means nothing to you?

As for my opinion on the future: What would be a fantastic follow up would be for someone to cast some spell to give fighter an extra pair of arms so he can wield all four swords at once, which would level him with Kary after his new fire armor.
You say fantastic, I say odd. You say potayto, I say potahto.

Judging by the more respectful tone of BM and the Yellow Speaker's agitated tone, I'd say the Rep Speaker is probably WM. (Oh, and in regards to the poster who used the text color to decipher who the speakers were, the text color doesn't have anything to do with it. I mean, come on, no one has yellow text.)
Except BM had fiery-yellow text when he returned from Hell.

I don't see it.

Fighter is still talking about sword-chucks (hilarity ensues), Theif is still stealing/sneaking/lying, Red Mage is still MinMaxing/UberSkilling/Cheating, Black Mage is still a homicidal/powermad/WM lusting monkey, White Mage is still a goody-goody, Black Belt is still temporarily wacked/finds the 'backway'...
When was the last time Fighter mentioned swordchucks? Or liking swords for that matter? Thief has a purpose; his father convinced him to save the world. Red Mage's epiphany should come along soon, since he is likely the Bearer of the Fire Orb, but you seem to forget that he's also a crossdresser with Daddy problems. Thief isn't just messing with his mind. Black Mage has realized the futility of stabbing Fighter. This time, he let the idiot off with a slap. White Mage played hardball with the dwarves to repair the deathtrap. And Blackbelt... maybe this is his moment of character growth. I cannot view him in the same way now. I LIKED him, dammit. I still do, when he comes back. If.

I don't think I've ever anticipated a new episode as much as this. Brian's really holding us at the edge of our seats. I just hope he doesn't let us fall off.
And isn't Brian at Ubercon this week?

swifters

10-18-2004, 04:11 PM

MFD

10-18-2004, 04:14 PM

It does indeed have "shit" to do with an enlightened Fighter. Once he realizes what Swordopolis is trying to tell him, he'll be enlightened. And easy on swearing at the mods. It's not healthy.

swifters

10-18-2004, 04:24 PM

It does indeed have "shit" to do with an enlightened Fighter. Once he realizes what Swordopolis is trying to tell him, he'll be enlightened. And easy on swearing at the mods. It's not healthy.

I wasn't intending the swearing as disrespect towards the administrator. As far as I know, there's no rule against swearing, right? (Correct me on this if I'm wrong.)

Swordopolis hasn't been seen in a while, and the possibility of Fighter remembering what he said and saying "OMG IM ENLITEND NOW LOL" is zero. I don't think Swordopolis is even meant to break through to Fighter, doesn't he usually show up just to save him from death?

And, even if Fighter realizes somehow that the sword was always his destiny, is that really going to change anything? It's not as if that realization has any direct correlation with his intelligence.

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 04:25 PM

... What shiney said; that and we know that Fighter speaks in Red Boxes.

The white tint emphasises that he's gained some power.

Also, as further evidence towards the Light Warriors Time Travel theory;

1) It would explain where they got the Orbs
2) When Fighter/Knight turns to Wizard, and comments on the "levelling up". That's so Red Mage :) No doubt if it was a "true" Red Wizard he'd be a little more mature and focused. I'm not sure if Brian was thinking exactly that at the time, but he may work it into it.
3) Fighter appears to lead the party. Now, in a group with a charismatic Ninja, noble White Wizard, and Knowldable Red Wizard, why would he be the leader? Because of the damn destiny thing you always get in FF games =P
And if Fighter really did have this amazing destiny; it's really the only way anyone would let him lead.

shiney

10-18-2004, 04:29 PM

It feels as if you are being purposefully obtuse. Don't people grow up over time? Don't perceptions change? Assuming that fighter is now as he always will be until the end of the entire storyline is exceptionally close-minded. Maybe he won't remember and be enlightened in a snap, that's why it's a correlation, not an absolute. It's related to without necessarilly being the cause of.

You sure are fixated on being stubborn. Open your mind a little.

Edit: it could have an effect on his 'intelligence' - thing is, he's very intelligent. Just naive and immature. Maybe he'll become far more mature, and as a result the shreds of innocence will fall away and he can see things for what they really are. Who knows? But to discount it offhand is fairly rude.

swifters

10-18-2004, 04:30 PM

... What shiney said; that and we know that Fighter speaks in Red Boxes.

The white tint emphasises that he's gained some power.

... And I already replied to what Shiney said. As for the red boxes, that has nothing to do with it. Black Mage's regular text is blue, but it changes to red and orange/yellow. If anything, having red text is a mark against him judging by the change in BM's text.

MFD

10-18-2004, 04:33 PM

But we've seen that color text associated with BM before. No, YOU go look for it. It's in the Lich storyline.

swifters

10-18-2004, 04:43 PM

But we've seen that color text associated with BM before. No, YOU go look for it. It's in the Lich storyline.

Yes, but that's assumed to be the same BM that's talking in 434.

It feels as if you are being purposefully obtuse. Don't people grow up over time? Don't perceptions change? Assuming that fighter is now as he always will be until the end of the entire storyline is exceptionally close-minded. Maybe he won't remember and be enlightened in a snap, that's why it's a correlation, not an absolute. It's related to without necessarilly being the cause of.

You sure are fixated on being stubborn. Open your mind a little.

Could I not say these same things about you? Having an opinion on something and sticking by it isn't any different than what you're doing. So don't try using it against me. Just because my opinion differs from yours and that I have as much logic to back it up as you do your own claims doesn't mean I must be exceedingly stubborn or obtuse. If you're going to make a negative opinion on me, base it on something that doesn't apply to you (and everyone else who's ever stuck to thier opinion) as well.

Over the course of the comic we see one constant attribute: the characters change a little bit over time, but the core of their personality stays the same. For Fighter, the core of his personality (besides a complete and utter obsession for swords, but that seems to have a bit of a link to this as well) is ignorance and blind child-like innocence. It doesn't stand to reason that Bryan would change this one main pillar of Fighter's personality. To say Fighter will become intelligent is like saying Theif is going to give all his riches to the poor, WM is going to become a stripper, or that RM is going to throw down his stat sheet and act logically. It's not going to happen.

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 04:43 PM

swifters

10-18-2004, 04:51 PM

No... why should it be? Yellow is a good hell king colour AND makes for sense for Chaos. That's why it's yellow, it's not to say ALL The characters will have a complete colour scheme.

And he has Red to White Text. Which kind of indicates a greater sense of nobility.

I'm sure Fighter will always be a bit of a Klutz, but there's no reason why he can't grow enough to have one damn mature conversation, especially when it's obviously such a serious time.

Also, Shiney is a mod, and obviously friend of Brian's (NOT BRYAN). So who will the average reader trust more?

BM's yellow font color had nothing to do with Chaos. In fact, Chaos has white font on a black background. BM's color was probably just chosen because it looked more reminescent of the firey paths of hell. The font color of the Red Speaker has nothing to do with it. Get over it.

Shiney and I are both speaking from personal opinion, not from fact. If Shiney is a friend with Brian or not, it's still just speculation. (Also, if I said Bryan, it's because I have a friend named Bryan and I get the two names mixed up.)

shiney

10-18-2004, 04:52 PM

swifters

10-18-2004, 04:56 PM

I at least accept that it is a maybe, maybe not situation. You aren't. That's where I am coming from. You seem to assume that there is no chance that fighter could possibly become, gasp, mature and wise.

Who's to say? Maybe the class change will have that sort of effect. Maybe not. But can't you at least concede there is a remote possibility?

The only argument against the prospect that Fighter may become wise and mature is that he won't become wise and mature. Which I am sure he will not. I still accept that it's just my speculation, and that I can be wrong.

I don't think Brian would let the class change effect it. To make Fighter intelligent is almost like killing off his character all-together. It's taking away his essence.

Myst

10-18-2004, 04:57 PM

Just a thought on the whole Red/Yellow text (434?) but couldn't it just as easily be black mage talking to himself? He has done inner monologues in the past, even the occasional inner dialogue, so why couldn't both red and yellow be BM, distinguishing between his different 'voices'?

Archbio

10-18-2004, 05:05 PM

To make Fighter intelligent is almost like killing off his character all-together. It's taking away his essence.

I was under the impression that Fighter was more afflicted by ignorance and immaturity than by a true lack of intelligence, both of which can be changed over time. He's probably an absent-minded slow learner too, but that doesn't make him unintelligent.

Kurosen

10-18-2004, 05:07 PM

swifters

10-18-2004, 05:08 PM

I was under the impression that Fighter was more afflicted by ignorance and immaturity than by a true lack of intelligence, both of which can be changed over time. He's probably an absent-minded slow learner too, but that doesn't make him unintelligent.

Your basic point is that the core points of Fighter's personality are things that can be changed.

Is this supposed to be news to me?

I'm just saying that to do so is like eradicating Fighter's personality, something that it just doesn't seem like Brian's nature to do.

swifters

10-18-2004, 05:10 PM

Wait, Swifters thinks that the "Red Speaker" can't be Fighter because the speech is too intelligent/wise?

Like I say at convention panels all the time: "Everyone thinks Fighter is the dumbest character, but he's probably the smartest."

So, yeah.

Oh, I can see the wave of "OMG U GOT PWND

BY BRIAN

;OLOLOL" posts coming from a mile away now. But, like I said, it was just speculation.

Archbio

10-18-2004, 05:13 PM

shiney

10-18-2004, 05:20 PM

I'll accept your double post this time swifters because I probably would have made the same mistake, but in the future there's an edit button.

And no I'm not about to go omg u got pwned u fag0rt lolz. I'm not petty, I just had a disagreement with you. Mighta overstepped my own boundaries too, sorry if I got personal.

swifters

10-18-2004, 05:22 PM

I'm saying Fighter being dumb isn't the core of his personality, the amount of knowledge someone has doesn't define who they are at the base, I think. Even if he were to have a revelation that'd make him more mentally efficient, he wouldn't be another character altogether. So no eradication.

That's true for most everyone, just not Fighter. Fighter takes it to the extreme. So much so that it has become a staple of Fighter's identity.

Anyway, I'm tired of this debate. Brian came in an destroyed me, boohoo I've lost, let's get on with our lives.

I'll accept your double post this time swifters because I probably would have made the same mistake, but in the future there's an edit button.

And no I'm not about to go omg u got pwned u fag0rt lolz. I'm not petty, I just had a disagreement with you. Mighta overstepped my own boundaries too, sorry if I got personal.

Yeah, sorry about the double post, I'd actually forgot I'd posted right before that (lots of posting on lots of different forums tends to get one dissoriented).

Bells

10-18-2004, 05:39 PM

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 05:50 PM

Rhana

10-18-2004, 05:57 PM

This is a heck of a lot of posting from one episode. The next one better be good. (I know you won't fail us Brian! Though I think it was rather cruel to drop in the discussion without explaining SOMEthing... :mad: Then again you're probably laughing)
I have 5 hours til midnight. Let the countdown begin!!

Edit: just a thought. BB was talking about his death in past tense. He may be dead, but I hope that means he isn't. He could do with more developement

Vidihawk

10-18-2004, 05:57 PM

Don't make a big deal out of it. And how can he destroy fighter if it's the end of the comic anyway?

And just because he's smart, doesn't been he can't still be a bit of an oaf, and like swords.

Also, Brian, it's cool the way you actually participate in these, wheras most people wouldn't let out a peep.

And which one of the LW's is called Barry? =P There could be any number of stories behind that.

*sniff* B- but... What about BB? I would love it if this 434 discussion and subsequent Time Travel discussion would be moved to their own threads. I wanna cry about BB! :bbelt: :(

The Argent Lord

10-18-2004, 05:58 PM

i Take Shinryuu and Nugan's point of view and sign my name on then u.u

So... i Concur !

BTW.... red speaker....
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=030821
I think everyone missed that we have a speaker with the same text box, namely, :rmage: .

SpawnOfThrawn

10-18-2004, 06:02 PM

Im reeeeeeally not 100% sure, considering that this thread is LONG...
but there is a theory that the True LW are the actual LW who had travel back in time?

thats kinda silly considering that one of then is called by the name of "Barry" when they visit Darwf Land...

Aaaaaaanyway...
The story isnt supposed to be THIS dense... its more comic and fun with a nice Epic touch here and there... i really doubt that Brian did the FULL script of this comic before making it real.... so they way things wore going on the first 100 comics maybe wasnt related to the next 100... is not Fully packed on symbology y'know....

I found the comic where he's called Barry:
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=031218

I have two ideas how this could be folded into the time travel theory though:
1) The LW's could have taken false identities when they went into time to help avoid creating a paradox (I can so see :rmage: doing a Doc Brown impression).
2) Barry could be one of the LW's real names. Red Mage had to be called something before he became a mage after all.

Loyal

10-18-2004, 06:02 PM

First, Barry is the Red Wizard, from what I remember on other threads discussing them.

Second:
Fighter appears to lead the party. Now, in a group with a charismatic Ninja, noble White Wizard, and Knowldable Red Wizard, why would he be the leader? Because of the damn destiny thing you always get in FF games =P
And if Fighter really did have this amazing destiny; it's really the only way anyone would let him lead.

Simple: He is a Fighter. He is the tank. He is the one with the highest Maximum HP and the Highest Absorb stat. He is the one that takes the hits. He is the one that (In FF and in 8BT as well, according to RM's chart) gets hit most often. It's only common sense to put the meat shield in front. You aren't gonna get much protection if your shield is still on your back, are you?

Third:
I was under the impression that Fighter was more afflicted by ignorance and immaturity than by a true lack of intelligence, both of which can be changed over time. He's probably an absent-minded slow learner too, but that doesn't make him unintelligent.

Or, simply put, Fighter is incompetent, and likely has ADD (He seems fairly artistic, with his like of Haiku, and the many variations of his sword techniques which, itself, could be called Art).

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 06:03 PM

TAL, Red Mage does have it, it's just far more likely that it's Fighter. But I'm guessing it's *meant* to be ambigious, just so you're not 99.9% sure.

Kurosen

10-18-2004, 06:50 PM

Let's try this again.

Wait, Swifters thinks that the "Red Speaker" can't be Fighter because the speech is too intelligent/wise?

Like I say at convention panels all the time: "Everyone thinks Fighter is the dumbest character, but he's probably the smartest."

MFD

10-18-2004, 06:54 PM

This just in...

Brian, THE AUTHOR OF THE COMIC WE ARE DISCUSSING, has just confirmed that Episode 434 was a conversation between BM and Fighter.

Lycanthrope

10-18-2004, 06:57 PM

actually, he hasn't, he has just told us that it may be fighter, and that we have no base to stand upon to say that it's not.

Hylarn

10-18-2004, 06:57 PM

This just in...

Brian, THE AUTHOR OF THE COMIC WE ARE DISCUSSING, has just confirmed that Episode 434 was a conversation between BM and Fighter.

I wouldb't say that he said that fighter is the red speaker but that we shouldn't discount him as a possibility.

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 07:06 PM

Naming Red WIzard could have something to do with his Gender Issue ;) Barry is a fairly typical "guy"'s name.

Still, if the LWs do face off against BM as suggested, they will end up the same part as the LWs. Maybe it's not Time Travel, but a Foreshadow.

Hamelin

10-18-2004, 07:19 PM

Someone said on the first page that Douglas Adams was working on another hitchhiker book when he died. This is untrue, he was working on the third Dink Gently book.

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 07:20 PM

I believe that was also said XD

Loyal

10-18-2004, 07:33 PM

I believe the Legendary Warriors are future selves of the LWs from a parallel universe (And so hence the fact that they actually have names).

'Course, it's just a thought, but an interesting one. Random speculation that goes on in my head all the time.

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 07:34 PM

I think I went a bit insane with the Time Travel thing, but it would make a lot of sense in a weird way.

talse

10-18-2004, 07:41 PM

I think I went a bit insane with the Time Travel thing, but it would make a lot of sense in a weird way.

read bob and george at www.bobandgeorge.com to really develop a hatred for time travel

Lycanthrope

10-18-2004, 07:43 PM

Read Scary-go-round www.scarygoround.com to learn how time travel can be fun and educational.

Loyal

10-18-2004, 07:44 PM

Exactly. Bob and George has introduced me to the evils of time travel. It's a paradox I can never solve. AND it causes massive plot holes!

Did someone say Plotholes?
Yikes!

Hylarn

10-18-2004, 07:48 PM

I'm fairly certain Brian said that there wouldn't be any time-travel weirdness.

talse

10-18-2004, 07:52 PM

I'm fairly certain Brian said that there wouldn't be any time-travel weirdness.

postulate: BnG is the grand father of sprite comics
postulate: brian is everybodies "daddy" cause he owns so bad.
postulate: you can not be you're grandfathers or fathers "daddy"
conclusion: like father (BnG:Grandfather of sprite comics) like son(8-bit Theater, "daddy" of sprite comics)
conclusion: time travel is an ineveitability, but will be hilarious and probably napalm induced.

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 07:55 PM

There's already been Time Travel crap in 8 Bit Theater.

The Wizard and his Breakfast; Megaman in the future if you want to count that :P

There has been more I just can't remember it right now.

And I'm still waiting for BnG to finish the new Cataclysm... for like a year.

Loyal

10-18-2004, 08:01 PM

Actually, Megaman in the future wasn't time-travel; It was a look into the future to poke fun of how RM's plans are VERY bad, and VERY frequent.

talse

10-18-2004, 08:24 PM

Actually, Megaman in the future wasn't time-travel; It was a look into the future to poke fun of how RM's plans are VERY bad, and VERY frequent.
which one is this megaman comic? i've looked through the first 300 and i can't find it.

Wetflame

10-18-2004, 08:34 PM

It's Battle Network/.exe Megaman, so you may not recognise him.

Rhana

10-18-2004, 08:42 PM

This probably means nothing, but remember "Barry" is the name Garland used when he was disguised. Then again, I use "Bob" whenever I need a random name.

2 1/2 hours to go...

Bells

10-18-2004, 09:46 PM

I found the comic where he's called Barry:
http://www.nuklearpower.com/daily.php?date=031218

I have two ideas how this could be folded into the time travel theory though:
1) The LW's could have taken false identities when they went into time to help avoid creating a paradox (I can so see :rmage: doing a Doc Brown impression).
2) Barry could be one of the LW's real names. Red Mage had to be called something before he became a mage after all.

Too deep!! Too deep!
and anyway... their lider its who suposed to be the improved Fighter... and at the same time is a totaly different charcter on personality bases... and as Brian COULD do such thing... i trully doubt he would....

Fighters name is Fighter McWarrior... of course RM could be RM since he was born...