Why do we love black mages so much?

[Godefridus]

This is not specifically about BM of 8BT, but that's definitely an element. I'm curious as to the mysterious appeal of Square's black mages. Not just the fact that they can cast "black magic"; but everything else about them, from the pointy straw hat to the shoes. The kind of appeal that makes an FF1 player think, "Gee, if only I wouldn't get ripped apart by imps and wolves, it would be damn cool to play the whole game with four black mages." The stuff that makes any FF Tactics player without a black mage in his party certifiably insane (whatever their merits in battle).

I mean, it's the certain something that made Vivi the only redeeming feature of Final Fantasy IX; the special whatever that made Lulu not interesting (not having a pointy straw hat, after all).

I have a couple of ideas.

First, with regard to the costume, it exemplifies two (or three) features that have a certain fantastical appeal on us: anachronism, eccentricity, and possibly asceticism. It is anachronistic in that the robe and hat appear to have been ripped out of a forgotten age, a time before our modern banality and boredom--this is the same sensation one gets when seeing authentically ancient European churches and artwork. It evokes a strong sense that, "in all history, only this has not changed." The black mage costume, in context, plays with our imagination, suggesting that we associate it with tapping into timeless truths, reaching out to us from forgotten depths. For that very reason, it implies a separatedness from the world. This is a people "set apart".

It is also somewhat ascetic, as opposed to the Red Mage who looks more like an aristocrat. The hat is straw, not expensive fabric; the robes (which we freely imagine are frayed at the edges) convey a sort of pilgrim or wanderer. Everything comes together to evoke an "otherworldliness"--a person or being not quite at home in this world, and yet uniquely expressive of its mysteries and adaptable to every corner of it.

The shadow face, I'm going to go out on a limb and say, is not so much a matter of evil or even obscurity/mysteriousness. Rather, it is that the mortal person underneath the robes of the black mage literally fades or withers in the presence of the timeless forces he calls to his service. Just as the broad straw hat casts a shadow over his face, the sources of Being he summons and manipulates casts a shadow over his very self. He is as nothing before his own power. Thus no part of his flesh may show--neither his face nor his hands. Consider the fact that the Final Fantasy Origins "black wizard", unlike the original NES version, retains the obscured face and the point hat. The NES black wizard looks like a Benedictine with a bad haircut.

Importantly, black mages in the Final Fantasy worlds wield a power which is indifferent to purpose or value. It is in this sense absolutely analagous to what we regard as technology. Yet unlike machines, which demand newness and cutting-edge technology, magic increases in power and terror as its sources become older and closer to the origin of being.

Note the flavor text of Final Fantasy Tactics' BM's (Wizard's) spell "Flare": "Inscript a dark god on a rotting body! Flare!" Flare is BM's most expensive and powerful spell, and accordingly it is the only one associated with divinity, implying an absolute origin.

The presence of the White Mage's (Priest's) spell, "Holy" implies that the assumed theology of Final Fantasy worlds is essentially Manichean--the early Christian heresy that the world is created and ruled by two equal and opposite spirits, one good, the other evil. There is no room in Final Fantasy for the Augustinian association between goodness and being (where evil is regarded as merely the absence of good, as cold is to heat and darkness to light). Rather, destruction is regarded as a positive and competing force.

Thus black mages may be heroes or villains according to their disposition. This is not surprising to anyone here, obviously; but consider the converse: white mages may also be villains, without necessarily casting any different sorts of spells.

Comments?

[kam_islash]

They're just cool is all.
People likes the spells that makes the people fall down.
Plus Lulu is full of fanservicey goodness :)

The only difference as far as spells goes between black and white is the usage, one for offense, one for defense. Neither is inherintly evil....it depends on the user.


///

[Wetflame]

Lulu is VERY interesting. Take that back :P

Damn Goth haters...

[Godefridus]

She's interesting because she has big boobs, not because she's a black mage. And the boobs aren't even that interesting; damn pale skin looks like you're oggling a dead person.

[Dynamite220]

Ignoring these shallow minds, I have to agree with you, but not on the same level. I play Magic the Gathering, and I was reading some articles by one of the card makers, Mark Rosewater. The articles were about the philosophies used to make cards of any particuler collor. Here is what he said. Some people mistake Black for evil, but black is not immoral, it is ammoral. It does not break morals out of malic, it just doesn't believe in them. It sees the world in terms of what it needs to do to stay alive, even if that means taking the lives of others. It is my belief that all humans are inherantly black. That is what Black Mage represents. He is the embodiment of the human soul.

[Silly Kitty]

She's interesting because she has big boobs, not because she's a black mage. And the boobs aren't even that interesting; damn pale skin looks like you're oggling a dead person.
Thats not very nice!!

We love them beacuse they stab things. Everyone likes to stab things. Evil is fun.

[Kike14]

I loved Black Mages because they were very cute, the I saw Vivi and Cuteness mixed with Mass Destruction, making them even better. Now BM has the cuteness, the mass destructive power and he is evil and funny n_n

[Killer_Nacho]

I like :bmage: for three reasons:

1) Stab. Stab. STAB!

2) Has the worlds greatest magical spells.

3) I feel sorry for him. :wmage: is too harsh :( Poor poor :bmage: ....

But just for the record BM IS NOT cute. You don't even know what he looks like...

[Squall Leonhart]

Lulu is an intresting character, dammit! Weather you like her or not does not make your opinion universal. I agree, however, that she didn't get as much character developtment as the other main characters, which was kinda dissapointing. Vivi was a major character in his game, developted, and that's why he was a big hit too.

[Silly Kitty]

But just for the record BM IS NOT cute. You don't even know what he looks like...

Ok that seals it. BM is now very very cute.

Now i like BM cuz he stabs and hes adoreable.

[liam_yates]

I suppose another reason is that people see Black Mages as "evil", and many people like playing the amoral character. For example, if you ever played a Star Wars game where you could choose force powers, which were you more likely to choose? Force Choke or Heal?
In the films, who did you think was "cooler", Darth Vader or Luke?

In my oppinion, people like the Black Mage because they think he is "cool" because he can cast spells like Flare and Ultima. I sure as hell do, anyway

[Nikose Tyris]

okay, Luke. Darth vader was gay. Anakin, cool. Evil anakin in new hope? gay.

also, Vivi and all the other incarnations of BM are cool, not CUTE, due to the fact that everyone has inherent destructive tendencies, which is why n00bs are obsessed with Fireball and lightning bolt. to admit that is to prove my point. quid qio pro.

[Silly Kitty]

Also, Vivi and all the other incarnations of BM are cool, not CUTE.

Okay, BM is cool not cute. And the reason i like him the most is he is hilarious. Always trying to kill silly silly Fighter. One thing you cant convince me out of is Fighter is adoreable in his own stupidness.

[darkimp]

okay, Luke. Darth vader was gay. Anakin, cool. Evil anakin in new hope? gay.

also, Vivi and all the other incarnations of BM are cool, not CUTE, due to the fact that everyone has inherent destructive tendencies, which is why n00bs are obsessed with Fireball and lightning bolt. to admit that is to prove my point. quid qio pro.
I'm assuming by gay you meant, completely awesome, and by cool you meant stupid little jackass.

Anyways, back on topic. I agree with you. BM is cool, not cute. But even being a guy, I can say that Vivi WAS cute. He was like a little confused kid. But at the same time wielded destructive power. And I think he had the most character development in the game. And I love black mages because:
1)They're evil(or atleast can be)
2)They wield destructive power.
3)They wear an awesome hat and cloak.
4)They have that big black head with absolutely no facial features whatsoever.
So there.

[Killer_Nacho]

Ok that seals it. BM is now very very cute.

Now i like BM cuz he stabs and hes adoreable.

This just prooves my point that no one listens to me :eek: Evil people... HES NOT CUTE, he is MYSTERIOUS and EVIL! Is this entire forum filled with fangirls?!

GAH! :bmage: <- Kiss your computer screen if you think hes so cute >_<

[Silly Kitty]

This just prooves my point that no one listens to me :eek: Evil people... HES NOT CUTE, he is MYSTERIOUS and EVIL! Is this entire forum filled with fangirls?!

GAH! :bmage: <- Kiss your computer screen if you think hes so cute >_<


Don't have a fit. See my earlier post.
BM is cool not cute.

Anyways i was just kidding. But to defend myself he's cute in his own evil way. Not to say that he is cute. Because if i say that of course everyone will say im wrong, so, not saying hes cute.

[Continuum]

A lot of people love BlackMages just because they embody the kind of power and amoral freedom that they THINK that they want to have.
It's a great power WITHOUT the inmediate need of great responsability. Their Mage class doesn't force them to practice a set code of morals, quite contrary, it teaches them that they can do whatever they want for their own benefit.
They wield a great deal of power, without any set of morals to control their destructive impulses.
People have envy of that kind of oportunity. The fools.

[Demi]

Seems some people didn't bother reading the first post. Godefridus said NOT 8BT's BlackMage.

[Silly Kitty]

Seems some people didn't bother reading the first post. Godefridus said NOT 8BT's BlackMage.

Acually, yes, I did read the first post. Some how the topic got switched to BM.

Black mages in general are cool in all different ways. They have this mystery that gives off an essence of cool..ness..

Black mages are well likes because everyone likes to think they have an evil side. Or everyone(or most everyone) likes to go for the evil side rather than the good. Of course some people do like the good side and all its good..ness..
But i would much prefer a black mage over a white mage anyday.

[Terex4]

BM is cool not cute.
Why not. It all matters by what you think is cute. I think he is quite cute....in a maniacal blast you to bits sort of way.....

BM appeals to me because I prefer black magic over white magic. I don't just look and say "holy crap random destruction woot!" I feel that black magic has more advantages than white magic. In the time it takes me to properly defend myself with my white magic spells, I could have obliterated the oppossition with black magic.

I also have a thing for shrouded faces. Other people who appeal to me are in D&D the priests of Lliera (I think) they have a glass mask that hides their faces, and the priests of one of the dead three (Baal or Myrkul...I think Baal) has a face shroud to make their hoods look empty.

I'm not big on the knife bit. If a mage must use his knife in combat, his magic is probably weak.

[PhasmaRok]

Just for the record, Vivi is definately cute, but he's also very bad-ass (if you don't believe that, just play FF9 until the "Fight with Dark Waltz No. 3" FMV). I dob't know why a character design like Vivi is cute, he just is. Maybe just by virtue of being so chibi-ish, yet possesing so much power. Personally, I think it's directly related to the eyes, somehow.

However, I also think that Vivi is the only Black Mage character who looks cute drawn in their real-life proportions. An 8 bit BM sprite is capable of looking cute, but a real-life BM would probably just look mysterious and cool.

And in regards to FFT, I love Black Mages in that game, but I think that the Summoner class has fewer disadvantages.

[Killer_Nacho]

And in regards to FFT, I love Black Mages in that game, but I think that the Summoner class has fewer disadvantages.

Yes, the Summoners are the "Ultimate" Spell caster (besides the Calculator that is) in that game.., even if *technically* they are called Wizards. I actually thought Black Mages sucked in that game, personally. In Chapters 1 and maybe 1/3 of Chapter 2 they are alright, but after that thier attacks are too slow and too weak for thier own good.

[kam_islash]

Hey I wasnt KNOCKING her for being fanservice....Im a fan and I love service!

///

[Godefridus]

Yeah, I notice a lot of people saying, "because they're just cool;" "I have a thing for shrouded faces;" "people like amoral power." I was trying to get underneath those very opinions--you know, like an anthropology of black mages. WHY are they cool; WHY do people like shrouded faces and glowing eyes.

This is a subjective judgment, but for me it is the pointy straw hat that makes the black face and glowing eyes come together. I mean, Star Wars Jawas have black faces and glowing eyes, but they aren't cool like blackmages. It's all about the hat.

[Nucleus]

damn pale skin looks like you're oggling a dead person.
What does particularly dark skin look like, then? Is the darker extreme preferrable over the lighter? Or are both extremes ugly to you? If pale is 'dead', is dark 'extra crispy'?

In any case, I agree completely with your original post.

[Continuum]

Yeah, I notice a lot of people saying, "because they're just cool;" "I have a thing for shrouded faces;" "people like amoral power." I was trying to get underneath those very opinions--you know, like an anthropology of black mages. WHY are they cool; WHY do people like shrouded faces and glowing eyes.
You want to get 10 gallons of water out of a cartoon of milk.
The reason why BMages are so popular is because most of the members in the fandom are geeks. Teenage geeks tend to have temporal emotional problems and wish they could be more "powerful" and be able to do whatever they want. The BM class is the perfect embodiment of the kind of freedom and power most people wish they could have.
Somebody with amazing destructive power and total freedom to wander and USE the world. An amoral creature with nothing to stop him from getting whatever he wants from this world exhept for those that are a little more powerful than him.

Plus, you can dehumanize a BM, thanks to shrouded face, to the point where it becomes a "creature" and not a "mage".

[Terex4]

Yeah, I notice a lot of people saying, "because they're just cool;" "I have a thing for shrouded faces;" "people like amoral power." I was trying to get underneath those very opinions--you know, like an anthropology of black mages. WHY are they cool; WHY do people like shrouded faces and glowing eyes.
The only problem is that not everything has a reason. I don't know why I like shrouded faces and I doubt it has to do with some childhood experience or deeper meaning my subconcience holds. Some things simply exist without a purpose.

Or perhaps there's subliminal messaging hidden in the pixels of BM's robes that makes us love him........

[Nucleus]

You want to get 10 gallons of water out of a cartoon of milk.
The reason why BMages are so popular is because most of the members in the fandom are geeks. Teenage geeks tend to have temporal emotional problems and wish they could be more "powerful" and be able to do whatever they want. The BM class is the perfect embodiment of the kind of freedom and power most people wish they could have.
Somebody with amazing destructive power and total freedom to wander and USE the world. An amoral creature with nothing to stop him from getting whatever he wants from this world exhept for those that are a little more powerful than him.
So, Black Mages are popular because teenagers have, quote, 'problems'?

This is no better than saying 'because they're cool'.

[Continuum]

So, Black Mages are popular because teenagers have, quote, 'problems'?

This is no better than saying 'because they're cool'.
Not just teenagers. There's something about true amoral acts that attracts people. It's something in our nature.
All other classes tend to side to one side or another, or have a specific reason for what they do (Money, justice, vengeance, control, etc...). BlackMages can do whatever they want, please their desires without refrain, without being tied to any material, spiritual or moral value. Having power is all they care about, HOW they use it is merely an accidental thing that they can decide by themselves.
It's about total freedom, baby!

[liam_yates]

A lot of people love BlackMages just because they embody the kind of power and amoral freedom that they THINK that they want to have.
It's a great power WITHOUT the inmediate need of great responsability. Their Mage class doesn't force them to practice a set code of morals, quite contrary, it teaches them that they can do whatever they want for their own benefit.
They wield a great deal of power, without any set of morals to control their destructive impulses.
People have envy of that kind of oportunity. The fools.

I envy of that kind of oportunity :D

[Poru]

Well, seeing as Black Mages all have incredible power at their fingertips, and can wipe out life with the wave of a wooden stick, I think that says something about our subconcious. Maybe deep down we're all psychopathic, murdering crazies, and envy the power to end life with just a wand and a smile.

That, or they're just plain sexy.

[Dynamite220]

Well, seeing as Black Mages all have incredible power at their fingertips, and can wipe out life with the wave of a wooden stick, I think that says something about our subconcious. Maybe deep down we're all psychopathic, murdering crazies, and envy the power to end life with just a wand and a smile.

That, or they're just plain sexy.
No way, dude. Nobody envies the power to end life, though some may be sorely tempted to pick off members of their own personal "better dead" list. The idea isn't destruction, it's power. If people could all be black mages, most of them wouldn't have to use their power. It would be enough that they could. Only sociopaths and other fringe personalities would go around killing people.

[Silly Kitty]

No way, dude. Nobody envies the power to end life, though some may be sorely tempted to pick off members of their own personal "better dead" list. The idea isn't destruction, it's power. If people could all be black mages, most of them wouldn't have to use their power. It would be enough that they could. Only sociopaths and other fringe personalities would go around killing people.


Hm, you know that sounds pretty accurate. Yea power is what people want.

Its very doubtful anyone would accually kill with there power. Mostly I would just abuse it with threats.

[VA_Ninja]

I think its the sparkly animations their spells make

Pretty lights...

[mammothtank]

Its very doubtful anyone would accually kill with there power. Mostly I would just abuse it with threats.
Hmm... what would people do with black magic? Personally, I'd put it to practical uses such as clearing snow off the road with Fire 1.

[Silly Kitty]

Hmm... what would people do with black magic? Personally, I'd put it to practical uses such as clearing snow off the road with Fire 1.


I wouldn't have that problem. We don't get snow down here. But it would be nice if it did snow here. Theres a thought on how i would use them other than meaningless threats.

[Poru]

OK, so maybe I was just revealing MY subconcious psychopathic side, but still, the power thing was the gist of it.
But I don't care what anyone says, I bet lots of you would kill school teachers you hated/hate.

[Silly Kitty]

But I don't care what anyone says, I bet lots of you would kill school teachers you hated/hate.


I don't really think I could really do something like that. I couldn't be so mean as to kill someone. Sure I would threaten to kill them to make them do what i want, but never could i really kill someone. I'm sure many others couldn't as well.

[Slime]

Black magic would have a lot of practical uses though.

Lighting fires, power stations, and other such things. Oh yeah, you could also create a pocket dimension and cast Ice Nine inside it. You know, to keep the ice cream cold.

[liam_yates]

Hmm... what would people do with black magic? Personally, I'd put it to practical uses such as clearing snow off the road with Fire 1.

We don't get snow, so I'd use Ice 1 to make snow

[PhasmaRok]

Mmmm... instant snow-day...
I don't think I'd kill anyone, though I can name a few people who would start receiving electric shocks on a regular basis...

[RD^God]

with that much power at my disposal....
well lets say that no one would ever say shitty deal to me ever again...

[Wetflame]

Lulu's skin isn't that pale. And pale skin is much better than that icky fake tan "women" wear these days.

[Godefridus]

And yes, the opposite of extreme of being sickly pale--quite black--is preferable. :)

[Poru]

You people are too nice for you own good. Black Magic = destruction. Woo. \o/

[liam_yates]

Don't get me wrong.
Anyone who annoys me I'll just melt the ice when they're over a pond, a quick lit 2 and bob's your uncle (or possibly Fred), you're done

[Dynamite220]

Now that the conversation has nothing to do with why we like black mage, I would suggest that someone make a thread about the current subject, what we would do with black magic, so that the mods can close the thread. This is getting a little old.

And no more talking about Lulu. Stick to the bloody topic people. All this talk about Lulu being cute, or not, is spam.

[Lone Wanderer]

Lulu isn't a black mage?

Sure, she doesn't fit the stereotypical black mage archetype, but strict archetypes are the bane of a character-driven story.

As for the original topic, it's because they generally have a much broader range of destructive power; whereas a non-mage has to resort to hitting one opponent at a time, the black mage can nuke an entire unit.

Or maybe that's just me.

[Silly Kitty]

And no more talking about Lulu. Stick to the bloody topic people. All this talk about Lulu being cute, or not, is spam.

Uh, Lulu is a blackmage. Its perfectly safe to talk about her in this thread. It isnt spam.

[Warlock]

Why do I love the Black Mages? Because of the power. I mean, face it. That's the reason in FF you play the :bmage:. That feeling you get casting NUKE over and over. And in D&D, that's the reason people play wizards, to be able to do things like stop time, cast a few spells, and then have time start again, and all those spells go off at once. What's not to like? It is the same reason people IRL get the SUVs with the big wheels and the gun racks in the back. Power, that feeling of 'I could squish you like a bug'. I mean, you don't even have to use it. Just having it is enough.

[Red Apprentice]

I mean, Star Wars Jawas have black faces and glowing eyes, but they aren't cool like blackmages. It's all about the hat.

Actually, I've always thought Vivi/BMs looked a bit like a Jawa. *Dodges barrage of rotten fruit*

Now, to address a point made in the original first post...your analysis of the BM's clothing is quite cool. However, I've never thought the RM looks like an aristocrat. To me, he looks like an eccentric or huckster, which fits with his personality.

I doubt any of you here play BattleTech, but it's a sci-fi tabletop war game with companion a RPG. In the "Notable pilots" section of the "fluff text" for one particular class of mecha, a con man who went by the nickname of Madman was described. It said that when he had made a big score, he would often sport ridiculous hats and carry a sword. I immediately pictured a guy dressed like a RM. It fits quite well with the impression his outfit gives me.

Anyway, there's no denying he's got style. *Strikes cheesy pose.*

Sorry, just had to say a few words on behalf of my favorite character, even if it is a bit off-topic.

[Continuum]

Anyway, there's no denying he's got style. *Strikes cheesy pose.*

Sorry, just had to say a few words on behalf of my favorite character, even if it is a bit off-topic.
And on hehalf of MY favorite character, I have to do THIS...
*STAB*

[Lost in Time]

I don't love the 8BT BM, but he is cool. In FFIX with Vivi, he is just plain cool, he is just so in-depth that you just have to love him.

[Red Apprentice]

And on hehalf of MY favorite character, I have to do THIS...
*STAB*


*Examines his stab wound*

Problem?

[Chargos]

hmm...I like Black Mages because of their power and oft times complete disregard for containing their damage. Hell, thats the reason I love the RYNO on Rachet and Clank, the pure destructive power of it all. As far as anyone else, who knows but them really, some may have psychopathic tendancies buried somewhere that playing a BM lets them out for a bit of air and to let them calm down somewhat, I do it every so often when I've had a stressful day and feel like killing someone or something, just spend a couple hours torching people with meteors makes me feel better :D

[liam_yates]

I never had enough bolts to buy a RYNO :(

[Warlock]

hmm...I like Black Mages because of their power and oft times complete disregard for containing their damage. Hell, thats the reason I love the RYNO on Rachet and Clank, the pure destructive power of it all. As far as anyone else, who knows but them really, some may have psychopathic tendancies buried somewhere that playing a BM lets them out for a bit of air and to let them calm down somewhat, I do it every so often when I've had a stressful day and feel like killing someone or something, just spend a couple hours torching people with meteors makes me feel better :D

Ah yes, the joys of not caring about the consequences of your actions. Being able to lay waste to a town and all those who try to get in your way. Now I remember why I love games like Civilization, when I finally get nukes, and can blow up the entire world.

[Muffins]

People like to do the black magic thing simply because it's destruction without responsibility. Destruction has always been superiorly easier than creation. I can kill a person in seconds, making a person takes 80 years.

[Xellos]

Black is not evil, but most people who like black mages like them because they are evil. Evil, darkness, and all that jazz are appealing to people. Especially people of a young nature. That whole seductivness of it. I admit that other people's pain can bring bliss, even to me. When you are young, teens to twenties, it is the time that you first really start to think about such things. Some people like it more than others. Some people hate it straight off. However, there is always some degree of interest.

Thankfully, just about everyone grows out of it quickly enough. It almost never lasts forever. No one need worry about finding evil tempting for too long. Humans, after all, cnnot live on evil. We deteriate if we try.

Oh, and I don't HATE goths. I have a small gothic side. I just don't get along well with preppies.

[Dynamite220]

Uh, Lulu is a blackmage. Its perfectly safe to talk about her in this thread. It isnt spam.
Maybe you didn't understand the purpose of the thread. It has nothing to do with specific individual black mages. It is sopposed to be a look at the whole BM comunity as started by Square. Lulu is a BM, but if he never existed, Black Mages would still be Black Mages. It's alright to talk about Lulu as an example of something having to do with Black mages in general, but talking about weather he is cute or not has nothing to do with the topic and, therefore, is spam.