regarding hell

[Jack of Spades]

This thread is not meant to hit-off a religious debate or make a religious point.
If it does then I'm glad I started some discussion

This semester I enrolled in a class entitled "Roots of Hell" which is about seeing how hell is represented throughout time and in different cultures. Our final project for the class is a self styled 5-7 page essay about hell.

We need 3 references about hell and I want to do something original so I thought I'd use the NP forums.When I make the paper I'd like to use quotes from people on this forum. So if you want to help simply post your answer to this question.

What is hell?

[adamark]

Quite a while ago I heard a radio broadcast discussing just this. Apparently it was one theologian's belief that "your mind creates its own idea of hell." basically if you subscribe to the very belief that a hell exists, and indeed, if it does exist, no two hells will be totally alike. your worst case scenario will be totally tailored to who you are, what your phobias are, what you abhor, etc.

i myself don't believe in heaven/hell so i'm not really a suitable source to quote.

[Gilgamesh in a Hat]

I beleive in the generic flaming hot hell, with the lakes, and the skelotons and the stabbing. But if hell were to be my mind's view of it, hell would be really, really, Really, REALLY, HELLA-COLD. i live in Michigan, cold is my enemy. :o

[Gorefiend]

This thread is not meant to hit-off a religious debate or make a religious point.
If it does then I'm glad I started some discussion

No, you won't be. There is a rule about no religious discussions on these boards. I'd say that this will be borederline. Don't be surprised if it is closed.....

However, for some good ideas of hell.....

The Inferno, by Dante (not OUR Dante, of course.....)
Part 3 of 1984, especially the part with the rats and Winston.

Or, try thinking to yourself whats the worst possible place/situation you could be in. Then, imagine having to experience that constantly, for ever and ever and ever. Ouch, huh?

Or, if you ask me, a very uncomfortable and crowded place where, knowing my luck, I'll end up becasue of some mix-up....

Or, think of the place where bad souls are punished. Or, perhaps it would be like a huge prison, where inmates are the souls of the damned, and demons are the wardens. This one comes from a movie released in spanish, titled Bendito Infierno, or, in English, Blessed Hell, or Holy Hell.

I hope I helped. And, mods, if I accidentally spammed the discission boards (since I'll admit that my post isn't too serious, though I'll argue in my defense that it's on topic....) please forgive me and let me off with a warning. PLEASE! PLEASE! PLEASE! I meant no harm I swear!!!!!! (and, yes, I worry a lot.....)

And, Gilgamesh, I hate cold too. I hate it oh, so much! My hell would be freezing, fly-infested, and very high (as in, witht he thin oxygen of high mountains. It would also have tons of computers with internet access. But, the internet would be slow, laggy, and stupid, and the service would go down frequently.

[Jack of Spades]

No, you won't be. There is a rule about no religious discussions on these boards. I'd say that this will be borederline. Don't be surprised if it is closed.....
ish...that'd definately(sp?) suck. Mods if this violates the "No Religious Discussion Rule" I'm sorry

Or, try thinking to yourself whats the worst possible place/situation you could be in. Then, imagine having to experience that constantly, for ever and ever and ever. Ouch, huh?
hmmm...my personal hell is to be locked in a room with no sensory input. No light, no smells, no feeling, no taste, and no sound. Just me in darkness as my mind falls into insanity and reality ceases to exist in my mind.

[Robot Jesus]

That’s easy, complete loss of personal identity would be my idea of hell, to lose ones self and merely be part of something greater to me is the most horrid form of death. For while your heart still beats you are nothing and are therefore dead. The individual is all important the horde meaningless. This is also why I hate clubs.

[phil_]

Since religion is frowned upon, I'll use the magic of (crummy) similes. Hell is like if, after waiting all your life, you finally got to meet the greatest person you'd ever heard of and found out that he was even greater than you thought he'd be. Then you're pulled away in less than a second never to see him again. You'd know that there are others who get to chill with him all the time, and some of those guys used to be jerks, but you'd have to spend forever away from him. Your anger and indignation of being stuck away from him would grow forever and eventually comsume you entirely. Kinda like Gollum, only worse.

It is a simile if I don't capitalize the 'H", right?

[WanderingActor]

Hell is a broad term. If you were to associate it with say, hell on earth, that would be a tangent idea, where everything that could possibly go wrong does and all things bad seem to happen to you.

However, hell is, unnavoidably, spiritual.

The real defenition of hell is where a soul finds eternal punishment for sins and crimes commited while living.

Laymans: You get what's coming to you.

However, to believe in hell you must believe in an afterlife, which requires you to be at least a little spiritually open-minded. If you don't believe there is life after death, then hell is just a way to scare people into doing what society deems correct.

[Robot Jesus]

You also must believe in the concept of universal justice. That in fact the universe is a fair place and you get what’s coming to you. It’s entirely possible to believe in an afterlife without any form of judgement, punishment or reward.

[Thanatos]

Ok the idea of the firery pits of hell comes from misinterpretation. The original Hebrew word Sheol (sp?) was actually an eternally burning trash pit just outside of Jerusalem. The term sheol also means the grave, so the two were combined as one idea in the greek tradition which has carried on to this day.
My idea of hell...I'll try not to get to religious on this, but it's difficult not to. Hell is to be outside the glory of God. Heaven is to be with God placing us completely in his glory. On Earth his Glory can reach us, but it is not nearly as strong. But God's glory does not extend to Hell.

[RevolverXOcelot]

Hell is the absence of God, and those who go to Hell are people who don't believe in God, and instead believe what they want to. Hell is where God grants that person their wish and they live as their own God. Here's the rub:in life God is with us, in Hell, God is never there. Hell is COMPLETE emptyness and aloneness. You are the God you set out to be, the God of nothing.

[Packman]

Life (j/k)

Hell is a place devoid of God.
I equate God with Love.
That should be enough for your imagination to work. Imagine if you existed, but you couldnt love anything. If you couldnt love your computer, food, mother, freedom, or anything else that has a meaning in your life.

This is what it is to die without God. That is traditionally the true meaning of hell. Yet many people are confused they think that if they live a 'good life' or 'good enough life' that they will be exempt. Rather all people who die without God will not find him in the next life. Fundamental stuff! Not really a religious view considering its public knowledge.

[Archbio]

Lets join in a prayer...

"O Great Mod, won't you grant us this boon, and close this thread (or at least set it back on the path of The Rules). Save us from the hell that is religious discussion, that makes all sound like loons."

Edit:

To be more on-topic, and less on-probation, I'd like to comment on the actual subject.

Hell is to be outside the glory of God. Heaven is to be with God placing us completely in his glory. On Earth his Glory can reach us, but it is not nearly as strong. But God's glory does not extend to Hell.

I think that's close to the meaning of damnation (state of dam) as explained by scholars of theology in the middle ages.

Personally, my favorite "hell" was the one in the manichean religions. The one that is basically the home base of evil, and can be cleansed and simply added to the rest of the world at the very end of the battle of good and evil.

[Funka Genocide]

hell is the boogeyman waiting at the end of your journey. Hell is the single greatest mind control device ever created. Hell is a fiery pit of damnation, wherein your eternal soul will be tortured endlessly in pain and terror. Hell is a theoretical construct of absolute nothingness, a place which is not a place as it is devoid of all things.

Hell is the single greatest idea man has ever thought. It allows anyone to be controlled, from the base idiot to a genius level intellect. Its the other side, where the grass is not so green.

hell is a perversion of mans greatest asset, hope. so is heaven.

I've got so much more to say, but I'm breaking the rules right now as it is, so I'll apologise abd go on my merry way...

tr la la!

[shiney]

Dammit Packman, you can't bust out the G word and they claim it isn't religious because it's public knowledge. Jesus, are you two years old? If you can't realise a simple concept like that then quit participating in discussion threads.

This one will remain open because apart from one slight bump people have behaved themselves quite nicely.

[ronny]

You can think in a religious way and look for definitions of hell in christianism (Most of them are greek terms) or look in chinese believes. They have an interesting concept of hell, looking at them in seven dimensions I think... (someone who really knows about this please help)

The other way is an ethereal, yet material concept. You can think of hell as your worst situation. Ie your house could be a place of peace, or could be a hell as well, depending on the situations you are living there.

Hell has been always associated with punishment.

As some people said, my hell would be being away from the person I love the most: God

[C-dog]

This one will remain open because apart from one slight bump people have behaved themselves quite nicely.

PHEW! With the G word showing up all over the place, I was worried I wouldn't be able to sqeeze my opinion in before the thread was closed.

I once thought hell was the traditional lakes of laval and flames and red demons. The thing is, a person can get used to anything. If that's all that hell is, you'd get used to it within a couple years, even with all the torture. The mind has a way of blocking stuff out and adapting. Hell in that sense would only be 'hellish' for the first while. After that it would simply be the lava-filled underground cavern where you 'live' (for lack of a better word.) It wouldn't be a fun way to spend eternity, certainly, but you'd get used to it.

It could be argued that an eternity spent anywhere would be hell, even in the traditional heaven with all the clouds and angels and love. Eventually, you'd experience all there is to experience. Boredom and a sence of pointlessness would torment you for the rest of eternity, which, because eternity lasts *forever*, is infinitly longer than the time it took to get bored and depressed in the first place. By this thinking, heaven can't exist because everything would be hell. 'Course, you could remove 'eternity' from the whole idea, but that would remove the purpose of heaven and hell in the first place. Uhh, I think I just convinced myself that heven and hell don't exist...

...which is fine because that's what I believed anyway. I believe in reincarnation. It just makes sense to me. Boy have I gone off topic.

I agree with Adamark on the idea of hell. Hell is completely different from person to person. Hell takes a persons most horrible experiences/fears/thoughts, amplifies them a thousand fold, and feeds them back to the person. If the person started getting used to it (as I said above), hell would change, find new horrible fears/thoughts, and do the same thing. It would repeat this for eternity. In that respect, hell is proabaly a white room with a matrix-esce VR chair in the middle of it. Scary! (I'm not kidding.)

[RagnarofBurland]

Hmm, this is interesting. Let us hope it doesn't close.

I've found the description of the Greeco-Roman underworld interesting. The fact that Aeneas, Oddyseus, Orpheus, Hercules, Theseus and who knows how many more ancient heros can got in kind of takes away from it a bit but some of the decriptions are interesting.

In the Aenied for example, "Heaven and Hell" persay are both under the area near Lake Avernus. As Aeneas travels he sees the various regions of the underworld with the Sibyl. (Most of them unpleasant) At the end of his journey he reach The Fields of Elysium, where all the "Good Guys" ended up. I haven't done any great reading as to exactly what it meant to the Greeks/Romans to a a "Good Guy" just yet but Anchises the father of Aeneas seemed to be one of them, so if your at least a little famaliar with the story there you go.

The point is, Anchises goes on this spiel about how essentially the "Good Guys" come to Elysium and how some of the borderline people are not yet 'pure enough' and must go to the river Lethe and lose all memory of themselves just to be reincarnated. So, at least to the Romans for whom the Aenied was written They have Heaven (Olympus), Hell, Heaven for People (Elysium), and incarnation. And if you're particularly brave you can just go down and take a one time visit to any relatives assuming you can get some being to assist you or you posess godly heritage. Talk about a complicated view of Heaven/Hell/Afterlife. Fun though. :D

(Now I'm sad, My class involving all this Greeco-Roman myth is over...at least I've got the useful knowledge. :rmage: )

[WanderingActor]

More interesting is the basic Greek idea of hell. The Greeks thought hell was a place that all men go after dying, and what they did in life would reflect in their afterlife. People who were lame or mute or blind in life would be lame or mute or blind in death. Hades was just another part of life after death. They also believed that when a person died, a golden coin had to be placed under their tongue for them to take to the after life. With this coin, they could pay the boatman on the river styx, who would take them to Hades where they would live out their afterlife. Those who did not have a golden coin would wander the bank of the river styx, eternally angry and frustrated that they would never see their true afterlife.

I kind of like this representation of hell.

[RagnarofBurland]

That's odd, I was under the impression the waiting was not eternal but in fact a hundred years. Now I shall have to go re-read some things at Bulfinch.org among other sources. Damn inconsitent Mythos.

[Bob The Mercenary]

I once thought hell was the traditional lakes of laval and flames and red demons. The thing is, a person can get used to anything. If that's all that hell is, you'd get used to it within a couple years, even with all the torture. The mind has a way of blocking stuff out and adapting. Hell in that sense would only be 'hellish' for the first while. After that it would simply be the lava-filled underground cavern where you 'live' (for lack of a better word.) It wouldn't be a fun way to spend eternity, certainly, but you'd get used to it.

If you look in the Bible itself, it says somewhere in there that even the gnashing of teeth won't sooth the pain. So I'm assuming it's something you don't get used to.

[Toastburner B]

Well...aside from stuff other people have said, I'll take a little more literal course.

Hell is the end of progression. You remain the same you are now (or when you are sent there), forever. After all, when you are sent to Hell, you are damned, right? It's the same principle as when you dam a river: you stop it's progession. Hence, when you are "damned" in the "Hell" way, you cease progessing. You don't improve, you don't learn, you don't grow, you are the way you are, forever.

Not really my belief, but something to think about.

[RagnarofBurland]

Actually, the english word Damn comes from the Latin word Damnum which means damage so I'm not sure how well that logic plays out, Toastburner.

EDIT: Actually if I want to get technical I'd use the adjective
damnosus -a -um act. [causing loss or damage , detrimental]; pass. [damaged, injured]; middle sense, [self-injuring]. Adv. damnose, [ruinously].

[Lycanthrope]

The only version of hell I can mentally justify is that portrayed in "What Dreams May Come" in which both heaven and hell possess the same powers, that in the afterlife has absolute control over their surroundings, its just that people who are good to one another go to one place while people who are bad to each other go someplace else. While in Heaven, everyone's personal heaven is reinforced and made stronger by everyone else, in hell, everyone makes everyone else miserable.

[Krylo]

I don't know if there can really be a hell. The greatest pains that we, as people, can feel are those of losing things we care about. Whether what we care about is a relationship with another person, another person altogether, or the 'grace of God', it is merely the act of losing something which causes us pain. Physical pain, such as a burn, is shallow and pointless compared to the pain of losing. It is something which is not more than a mild discomfort in light of heart break.

The pain of losing, however, can never be 'hell' because it is always a tainted pain. Tainted with memories of that one thing that you loved so much that losing it rips a hole in your heart and soul. So long as you have those memories the pain is bearable, and even beautiful at times. You can always look back at what you had and smile. And, devoid of those memories, you are devoid of pain, so it is an unavoidable circumstance, that, when trying to force someone to feel the deepest pain that you can, you will always leave them with a glimmer of beauty and hope.

But, then again, perhaps a world devoid of that very pain would be hell. Without that pain, you lack the risk of pain. Love with another person is no longer special, it's just asking and being accepted. It would never be challenged. There would never be, at any point, a reason for you to try to deepen it or make it stronger. It would never break anyway.

In this world, love is always tainted with the threat, the fear, the risk of pain. Your loved one can, and will, betray you at some point. Perhaps it will be a minor betrayal, such as a few cruel words that could never hurt you so deeply coming from somebody else, or perhaps it will be a brutal betrayal, such as leaving you for another. Either way, you will be betrayed, but that is what makes it real. That's what makes the love shine its brightest.

Without that pain the greatest joys that we could normally feel become nothing but an empty shell of what the emotions should be. They are actions without passion. They are thought without reason. Just minor dalliances into the realm of the human experience. A road block keeping you from truly experiencing life for all that it is.

Hell is Pleasantville.

[Gorefiend]

You saw that movie too, krylo? Or was it really a TV show? (knowing the preferred themes of the time makes me suspicious, but I really doubt it. In my defense, I was 12 when I saw it!)

Regardless, I agree with you krylo. Hell is the complete and utter lack of real pain.

Except that I still believe my theory that every single person's hell would be different, and involve that which they loathe.... Perhaps we'd go through various stages.... First, the simple tortures that seem unbareble, and the pits of lava, and all that.... Then the exposure to that which we truly loathe. When I say exposure, I mean more along the lines of being forced to live in/among that which you hate. Then, finally, we are dumped out of this system into a "real" world, only it's Pleasantville.

[Jack of Spades]

Well I'd like to say that even if this thread is closed I would like to say this.

Thank you everybody for contributing to this thread. I'm sure it will be of great help when I write my report. In my bibliography I will be sure to thank everyone who posted here for thier opinions and a thanks to the mods for not closing this :)

I like the idea of every person having thier own personal hell. If everyone is given the same punishment it's highly unlikely that everyone will be in as much agony as everyone else.

[C-dog]

I like the idea of every person having thier own personal hell. If everyone is given the same punishment it's highly unlikely that everyone will be in as much agony as everyone else.

That's why I like it too. Twisted, sadistic, serial killers might enjoy time spent in a traditional hell. Not so with a hell specifically designed for the individual.

[The Mighty Penguinhead]

A true 'hell' isn't possible. One of the very things that makes us human, the ability to imagine complex versions of what could be instead of what is, provides an escape route of sorts from any situation. Even the 'Pleasantville' version of hell doesn't work because there would be nothing to stop you from sitting down and spending eons constructing a fantasy world in your head. yes, there could be distractions, but any form of distraction, even random, unpredictable occurences, will fade to background noise given enough time.

You may say, "Then isn't hell a place where there is no imagination?"

No. Imagination is tied in with human emotions and thoughts too closely to remove and still have a real conciousness. A sense of loss comes from the realization that you once had something but you no longer do. Within that thought is the implication that if you had done something different you still could have whatever it is you lost. Thinking of what could have been is what provides emotional pain with much of its weight.

[Bob The Mercenary]

The key word being human. Maybe in the afterlife you aren't really human anymore, but just a spirit. And just think about it for a second, if there is a Hell, then whoever made the Hell could probably make it so that you couldn't imagine or have any entertainment for yourself at all other than watching your skin boil off of you.

How fun.

[Sithdarth]

A lot of my reading have suggested the Hell was only a stop off. It was initially meant as a place to pay for your bad deeds until you were good enough to join the world or move up to what ever version of "heaven". Of course more than one system as twisted the intial ideas of redemtion through torture into eternity. Aside from that I'd say hell is taylored to the individual, that is if it exsists at all. Well my current theory says that depends on the person too. But thats another story.

[LadyJareth]

As much as I am intrigued by the traditional "Fire and Brimstone" conception of Hell set down by Christianity I don't believe it truly exists in any sense. True Hell must be tailor made to the one meant to suffer it's wrath. Personally my own personal Hell would be characterized by complete sterility of surroundings. No people, animals or living things of any manner. I would not even have the darkness to comfort me. The room would most likely be completely white-walled and there would be very bright lights shining all day and night preventing sleep or even the possibility of resting the eyes. In addition I would have carried all of my memories over from the living world. To me people and the natural world are what makes life worth living. I would remember everything, walking through the woods on a drizzling, foggy day. I would remember what it was like being held by my boyfriend and hiking with my father. Another component of hell would be the inability to harm myself or indeed to feel and physical pain whatsoever. I don't think my Hell would have any sort of Satan-like figure in it...nothing to add any interest or entertainment whatsoever.

[Gorefiend]

Ever read 1984? Know what happens when humans lose their humanity? They become shells, mostly belonging to a larger group, with no intelect or imagination. Trust me, it can be imagined. (ooh) My theory involves having the imagination and life sucked out of you, and then forcing you to live as if you were in Pleasantville, with, perhaps, a feeling like an itch you cannot scratch. One you don't want to scratch, as you're now affiliated with those who destroyed you. And you wouldn't know how to scratch it even if you wanted to. You're not longer able to feel those things. That itch is your humanity trying to return, constantly blocked by the rest of your mind.

And, was "What Dreams May Come" a movie. If so, was it about a guy who imagines his heaven is a painting? (there was tons more to the plot, but that part is good to figure out if we're on the same page, ok? I know it's about more....) If so, I have also seen that one. It, too was a very good description of Hell.

And, I'm sorry if there were spoilers to black out, but they were tied in too deplely in my arguement to black them out. Please, forgive me.

[Lycanthrope]

yes that is the movie, Gorefiend.

[ronny]

Another interesting thing for Jack of Spades' essay is the idea of the devil. There is two concepts about it. The first one is that hell is a place of punishment, including for him (believes of christianism) and the other one being him as the person that inflicts suffer, and punish the people in hell. This last one is probably due to the greeks and romans idea of the variety of gods, and that one of this directs the Hell department(CEO). Maybe this, or maybe it was just a terror tale that fathers tell to their children.

It's what I just figured out. Anyone who really knows something about this please correct me if I'm wrong.

[Robot Jesus]

I’m surprised no one had brought up Zoroastrianism’s concept of hell into it.

[Jack of Spades]

I’m surprised no one had brought up Zoroastrianism’s concept of hell into it
maybe you can?

One thing I've noticed about hell and the afterlife (just from stuff I've read the class this paper'll be for hasn't really gotten in depth yet) is that each culture has a very similar idea. They each have a place where you are rewarded for being good and one where you're punished for being bad.

The punishments are usually firey and/or pointy and demons are there to do the torturing.
Hell is also usually pictured as being underground. Odesseus goes down into hell so the dead can tel him how to get home, Baldur's mother in the Norse myths goes down into hell to ask for Baldur to be returned, and in Catholicism Dante journeys down into hell on his journey to heaven. All of them went underground into a firey place of torture.

[Evilhasreturned]

maybe you can?

One thing I've noticed about hell and the afterlife (just from stuff I've read the class this paper'll be for hasn't really gotten in depth yet) is that each culture has a very similar idea. They each have a place where you are rewarded for being good and one where you're punished for being bad.

The punishments are usually firey and/or pointy and demons are there to do the torturing.
Hell is also usually pictured as being underground. Odesseus goes down into hell so the dead can tel him how to get home, Baldur's mother in the Norse myths goes down into hell to ask for Baldur to be returned, and in Catholicism Dante journeys down into hell on his journey to heaven. All of them went underground into a firey place of torture.

Because humans mind hate solitude and darkness it scares them so it pictures a place that is exactly what you it thinks it should.

Who knows hell might actually be in heaven ;)

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

my personal hell is one of my friends takeing over the world and burning all my possesions and then burning microsoft

[Krylo]

One thing I've noticed about hell and the afterlife (just from stuff I've read the class this paper'll be for hasn't really gotten in depth yet) is that each culture has a very similar idea. They each have a place where you are rewarded for being good and one where you're punished for being bad.Not quite true. Sumerian culture believed that all people went to the same place when they died, regardless of how good or evil they were in life (unless they did something crazy like becoming a god). Further, this place wasn't underground, but was instead on the other side of the world. It was nothing but a giant plain of mud, and the people had nothing to eat except said mud. The sun god, Shamash, would also head there at night, giving them a little bit of day time. I guess so they could see the dirt they were eating.

Point being: They didn't have a hell. Just an afterlife.

[Squishy Cheeks]

I always viewed hell as being a two step process. First you experience heaven, and for some reason you reject it, mostly out of regret for your "sins" and instead you go to hell. Which I view as a very isolated dark cold place. Essentaily a formless void, where it is you, and only you. Alone in the dark for eternity. I formed this oppinion from the only real description of hell in the bible. A place where god does not exist. Personally I doubt the physical pain of burning for all eternity could be worse than to live alone in the absolute darkness for eternity.

[Skyshot]

Unless I'm mistaken, the conservative Presbyterian view of hell involves more of an emotional torture than a physical one. We believe God pours out his wrath on those in hell. After a brief period of wondering why the heck the damned would care about his wrath, I realized it was basically like being rebuked for eternity. That would hurt.

Regarding why you go there? Calvinism teaches that man is inherently corrupt,* therefore all who are not saved go straight to hell. Even if you're Ghandi, or however you spell that guy's name.

*A guy I know justified this a bit further. If someone smaller than you smacks you upside the head without provocation, what would your inherent reaction be? What would a corrupt person's be?

Did you notice how similar those two answers were?

[Lycanthrope]

krylo, an even more potent example of this form of afterlife was that of the early celts/britons. Essentially the afterlife was exactly like their life.

[Robot Jesus]

Another interesting afterlife is the one the ancient Greeks believed in. for the heroes, read exceptionally good, there was the Aleshan(sp?) fields. Where they get to spend eternity hanging out in the warm sun hunting. For the exceptionally unpious Hades beckons where they would spend all of eternity working as punishment. And for everyone else they just diminished into shadows and hung out in Tartaras(sp?). A bleak but not all together unpleasant place somewhat akin to Utah.

[ronny]

Hell is also usually pictured as being underground..... All of them went underground into a firey place of torture.

My guess is that people reasoning lead them to think something like this:
Good things-->Up (sky,heaven)
Bad things-->Down.
Remember that thousands years ago, earth was flat for them. So humans were in the middle. If they were good, they go to an upper place. If they were bad, they went to a place underground.

This makes me think, it's interesting that they figured out the inner places of earth as a fire place; and that actually, they were sort of right.......
coincidence?......
instinct?..........

[Archbio]

the Aleshan(sp?) fields

I think you are thinking of the Elysian Fields... which are like those in Paris, only with less shops.

This makes me think, it's interesting that they figured out the inner places of earth as a fire place; and that actually, they were sort of right.......

Thanks to volcanic activity, most of the things they would have seen coming out of the earth would have been fiery. But it's possible it's mostly just coincidence, fire being the most terrible/painful thing (which is still easy to imagine) you could imagine a place filled with.

[Sithdarth]

I was struck with an interesting thought today in my compostion class. Everyone "knows" that Santa doesn't exsist as a real person. Yet through his legend and the cultural structures built around him he continues to exert an influence. So basically the entire idea of a hell is all that is really needed. It doesn't matter if you believe in it or not, nor does it matter what you expect to find. The simple fact of hearing of such a place, and being exposed to the myths surronding it, as a lasting effect on people. In short "hell" may be only an idea and the less then pious may simply vanish at the end of their lifes or they may get another chance at life. There need not actually be a hell to have the mental effect of there actually being one.

[Packman]

Gospel of Peter. Yes, you read that right. Also another book about Daniel have a lotta questionable things about hell so they were left outta the bible. Milton is my favorite for descriptions. Dante also gives a full walkthrough.

Does anyone else know of anchient books (scriptures) left out of the bible? I think some of them would be interesting rare reads.

[LordTobias]

Interesting input. I can see that clearly some of you are afraid, but may not know why. And, clearly, some of you are religious. All fine by me.

Me, personally: I believe in no such things. Hell, to me, is something akin to the word "nothing," such that it, to me, does not truly exist. It can not exist. Thusly, it doesn't. I guess that could be some form of crazy logic, but, beyond that, it's something beyond basic understanding. Some of us find the answers from others (but realize we have been misguided...those that don't are blind fools), yet others find them from within ourselves. (Pardon if my rant makes no sense)

Those that find them within ourselves may take seconds, minutes, or even days, weeks, and months. Even years. This is something I have come to learn through experience and the endeavor to discover more of what exists beyond basic logic and thought. (Which is why I have, at least to most of you, such a peculiar view on this)

The end at which I arrived I have described already, but why do I say so? Look at things closely. Those of us who commit good deeds are not rewarded by the rest. We are taken advantage of, sullied, spit on, abused. Those of us who commit the abusing are left feeling shallow because of believing what others believe. And yet even if we DO commit "good" deeds, oft' we are left wondering what would have happened had we not done so. If hell were to exist, to me, it would be the place in which we live.

There is nothing glorious about our current state. Yet why is there such mention of closeness to one's deity or worship? As stated, all things are a matter of thought.

Once more, I shall say that, to me, there is truly no hell. An afterlife, oh certainly yes. But hell? None whatsoever.

If there are any questions about my senseless banter and need to hammer out some slight opinions on things, feel free to IM or PM me, or simply reply to the thread.

Yeah. At least something made sense...

[Cheerful Coffin]

After the expirience I can only describe to you as "talking to God" I can't define hell as Judeo Christian teaches it, it's more like a dimension-X. Bassicaly the inescapable plain 45% of the world is destined to go to their unchangable destiny of being yang energy.

They wouldn't like "hevean" much anyway..