Brian, if I had to make one complaint about the book...

[Bongo Bill]

...which, granted, is pretty much what I'm doing right now, it would be as follows:

The passages containing social commentary were, in my opinion, often very clumsy - that is, lacking in subtlety and depth, making their point with a sledgehammer, and occasionally (gasp) just not very funny or interesting (in comparison to the rest of the book, that is).

Not that it didn't have its high points. The later developments in the dichotomy between Dr. Genius and Dr. Menace, for instance, and the whole mall incident before Nihel showed up. They were mixed with story development, interesting characters, and silliness; they presented the point without insulting the reader's intelligence if they thought otherwise; and basically they were a good read.

But the low points are there as well. The dialogue between Television and America was enjoyable for what it was, hyperbole, but as honest social commentary the same hyperbole that made it interesting also made it unusable. It seemed to me to be exaggerated just barely too far beyond accuracy.

And, of course, the whole part where the key to making a grand and highly enviable galactic empire is to do everything the opposite of the way we're doing it now ain't exactly Mark Twain either. I don't doubt Jonathan Swift would've given it a try, but that's because he's Jonathan Swift. And he'd devote the whole book to that idea, rather than just sort of making it a significant but not strictly necessary footnote.

I love the book, Mr. Clevinger, but I thought that there's no one so good that they couldn't stand to benefit from a little criticism coming from a new direction. Is all.

[Kurosen]

Well, those jokes are supposed to be funny because of how hamfisted they are. They lacked subtlety because I wanted them to. Sometimes you're just in the mood for a pie in the face.

[Kairamek]

I found the conversation between Television and America to be quite hilarious. Because it's so true I have to laugh or I'll get really scared. I have quoted the line "I shall believe it for it word of the Magic Box" in casual conversation as well. Though I don't believe I'll use the term "Bovine Audiance" because that would be in the presence of a half dozen female co-workers who would take exception to be related to cows. I can't imagine why.

[Gary Thunder]

I too doubt the fact that Earth's civilization could be used as a direct counterexample to society. Hell, we aren't THAT flawed.

[Kurosen]

The history of Earth's nations should be called "The 10 Do's and 500 Don'ts of Civilization." We've come a long way, mostly after fumbling through all the stupid and bad parts on our own. The people on that planet basically recieved a blueprint to avoid the bad parts.

[Slackbot]

Planet, singular? ;)

[Kairamek]

I too doubt the fact that Earth's civilization could be used as a direct counterexample to society. Hell, we aren't THAT flawed.

We aren't? We subjegate people based on the color of their skin, or their genitilia, or mere differences of opinion as a matter of course. We squander natural resorces at a far higher rate than nessisary can call it a divine right. We continue to repoduce without reguard for the concequences, thus consuming those resources even faster when large populations are desperate for those very resources. Our systems of aid to the disadvantaged teach those who are responsible, ie don't bring children into the world they can't care for, that they are expendible by giving all the aid to baby machines who don't work and have kids regularly to draw a bigger goverement check. We are greedy, self serving people who rather risk causing other people harm than inconviencing ourselves for five seconds and be polite. Our society promotes those who grab for power and money at the expence of others and tells the other's "tough luck." Our "enlightened" society is made of assholes and is ruled by shitheads. I'm sorry, modern civilization in first-world countries is an excelent counter example to build a civilized society.

[Jhonka]

Planet, singular? ;)
Yes, singular, because the disk only landed on one planet.

[Slackbot]

Yes, singular, because the disk only landed on one planet.Fair enough. I was thinking along the lines of it having been used as a kind of anti-Bible for "every sentient being within the Galactic Territories," therefore ultimately being received by everyone in said territories. But, yes, it was initially found on one planet. My correction stands corrected.

[Kairamek]

Yeah, I have one huge complaint about the book. Mine was STOLEN! So, Brian, any idea when the revised version will be available? If I have to lay down another forty bucks for another one I might as well get the typo free version.

[Kurosen]

We are closing in. I'm also thinking about releasing it in three volumes (each one spaced out a couple months) to make it easier on people's pockets. I know I could trick myself into buying three items for $15 - $20 each across half the year easier than I could convince myself to put down a big one time $40 purchase.

No guarantees though. I think it works better as a single volume. But it's something I'm considering.

[Jhonka]

Honestly, I'd rather see you keep it in one physical book. Although, it doesn't make a whole lot of difference to me, since I already have mine and will never relinquish it.


Never, I say!

[Bongo Bill]

We aren't? We subjegate people based on the color of their skin, or their genitilia, or mere differences of opinion as a matter of course. We squander natural resorces at a far higher rate than nessisary can call it a divine right. We continue to repoduce without reguard for the concequences, thus consuming those resources even faster when large populations are desperate for those very resources. Our systems of aid to the disadvantaged teach those who are responsible, ie don't bring children into the world they can't care for, that they are expendible by giving all the aid to baby machines who don't work and have kids regularly to draw a bigger goverement check. We are greedy, self serving people who rather risk causing other people harm than inconviencing ourselves for five seconds and be polite. Our society promotes those who grab for power and money at the expence of others and tells the other's "tough luck." Our "enlightened" society is made of assholes and is ruled by shitheads. I'm sorry, modern civilization in first-world countries is an excelent counter example to build a civilized society.
Maybe that's true. Maybe it's not. You seem to think it is. And what are you doing about it? Helluva lot of good it does to go around complaining "WTF we're evil."

I was about to go on a big rant about that (in fact I had it mostly written) but I decided that in the interests of keeping this thread from derailing I'd simply advise you to read this (http://www.pointlesswasteoftime.com/monkeysphere.html) and mull over it for a while. Also, and I mean this in the nicest way possible, lay off the emo.

Anyway. Back on topic. The problem with putting it in three volumes is that the purchase is not likely to be spread out across half the year. It's a gripping read; as soon as people get through one part they'll want to jump immediately into the next, especially from the Superion part to the Nihel part. It will result in either buying all three volumes at once (which means more money for Brian per sale of the book but fewer sales) or not being as satisfied with the text. Personally, I think it works excellently as a single volume.

[Slackbot]

I'm also thinking about releasing it in three volumes (each one spaced out a couple months) to make it easier on people's pockets.What would the publisher say about that? I believe you said that they were the ones who determined that the book would be printed in such a large, pricey format.

[Kurosen]

That's another consideration. Just wanted folks to know that the idea was floating around in my head. I'm a bigger fan of the total package, as it were, but I know the price scares off a lot of people who want to read the book.

[Freeq]

The book works best as a single volume mainly for the ending. The punchline would feel kind of... I don't know, cheap if delivered as the final part of a series. The way the tone of the book takes a complete 180 works best within the single volume, I think, than as the third part of a trilogy.

Actually, looking back at that sentence you'd think the opposite would be true, but this is just what I think. I guess it's mostly to do with the characters. If you were to read the first book, read a few more books before purchasing the Superion book and then read a couple more books before reading the last installment you wouldn't get the same impact as reading the book through.

[Kairamek]

Bongo Bill, and I mean this in all sincerity, you can go have aerial intercourse with a revolving pastry. I was laying out what we all "know" about humanity and why the entire subplot of using us as a counter example was even possible. I was also disagreeing with Gary Thunder. I am not a goth (that emo stuff is just etymology bullshit). No I'm not doing anything about because, basically, I can't. I can't force people to think the way I think. I can't make anyone believe what I believe. I can't make anyone do what I do. That last guy I saw try that wound up thrown down a Deathstar reactor by a dude in a robot suit. No thanks, I'll just sit here being apathetic.

[Gary Thunder]

Here's the way I like to put it.

Yeah, we cheat, steal, rob, beg, assault, rape, murder, lie, and discriminate. We also love, cherish, donate, help, renew, save, give, heal, and tell the truth. The very fact that we aren't in a state of anarchy with everyone murdering each other is a good example that we're in a basically good civilization. Not perfect, but basically good. Materialistic? Yeah. Is that a mortal sin? Better than all-encompassingly murderous, like Nihel.

Besides, don't you think it's just a teensy bit arrogant to assume that you alone can recognize the depravity and disrepair of civilization? And if you say "Well, I'm part of it too..." then how would you be able to recognize it for what it is?

[Mashirosen]

Kairamek, Bongo, you're both warned -- Kairamek for flaming, Bill for provoking it. Either agree to disagree or take it to PMs or e-mail. Also, Gary, you've been here long enough by now to know not to double-post -- this isn't a warning, but please don't do it again or there will be one.

[Gary Thunder]

Sorry. I frequent most a series of boards where it's impossible to edit your post, so when I had a new idea a few minutes later, it was kind of instinct to write a new post.

[Freeq]

My two cents on the whole "we're bastards" thing? Well, first, yes we are. Or were. But we're learning.

[Kairamek]

Let me quote the Dungeon and Dragon Player's Handbook. "Humans tend toward no particular alignment, not even neutrality. The best and the worst are found amoung them." That's pretty much my stance. I was pointing out the worst intentionally as a counterpoint to an earlier statement. You want positive? How about this: According to the company paper, Wal-Mart, the bastion of disposable consumerism, reciently turned over a $300 million check to Children's Miracle Network. But that's not what makes it into the 6 o'clock News. Both what does make it into the 6 o'clock News and reason it makes it in are two seperate problems.

Besides, don't you think it's just a teensy bit arrogant to assume that you alone can recognize the depravity and disrepair of civilization? And if you say "Well, I'm part of it too..." then how would you be able to recognize it for what it is?
Two things. 1) You are more likely to be sensitive to things you are. For example, I'm a bit spastic and high strung, and those are two character traits that annoy me in other people. 2) I never siad I was the only one who could see the evil of humanity. Don't put words in my mouth, it makes me very angry very fast.

[Mashirosen]

Don't put words in my mouth, it makes me very angry very fast.
If you can't control your temper, maybe you'd better stay away from threads where anything more involved than "do u say coke, soda, or pop wich 1 is right????" is being talked over.

[Kairamek]

Quite the opposite, I have excelent temper control. There are just a few things that push my buttons, such as words being put in my mouth. Add to that descrimination, crimes of a sexual nature, accusing me of either, drunk driving, and if I'm in the right mood, stupidity. A few random other things will get my goat if I'm in the proper frame of mind. For example, yesterday I wasn't in the mood to deal with what I percieved to be a condencending attitude. You see my reaction to what I believed was condencendance. Note the emphasis as I don't actually know what tone was intended. And that was extremely mild for me. Which is why I have such good temper control. When I loose it, it is very lost. Feelings get the kind of hurt usually assosiated with a nasty car wreck.

So as not to be completely unrelated, will the publisher allow you to have two versions? One would be the original all-in-one format and the other would be three seperate books. Thus you would give people the choice they so desperatily want to call free will. (Like picking brands of cola!)

[Gary Thunder]

Well, as long as you recognize that humanity isn't in an infinite doom spiral of destruction.

And if you think your temper is bad, you should see mine. Seriously. The last time I got really furious, great sheets of ethereal flames roared from my mortal frame at the speed of light and obliterated Pyongyang. (Don't ask why I was in North Korea at the time.) Oh, you say that's unlikely? Have you been to Pyongyang lately?

[Kairamek]

Great sheets of etherial flames? Okay Sparky, next time pick a superpower that is NOT assosiated with forum in which you are posting. It's funnier.

[shiney]

Enough of this crap. Kairamek, Mashirosen gave you friendly advice. Seems you didn't heed it, which is why I am giving you an official warning. Keep up this attitude and that warning will become a ban. I am the poster boy for angry fast, but I also cool down fast. Cause when I get angry, I make the problems go away.

Only takes maybe ten clicks and your username.

Do settle down. :)

Edit: Upon investigation, it seems you got a warning two weeks ago as well. Since this is your second offense in a short period of time, bye bye for a couple of weeks. And please don't register another account in the meantime, since then we'll just have to permanently ban you.

[Gary Thunder]

Okay, Shiney, what the hell? I mean, Kairamek was being slightly hostile, but is that really an offense? Hell's barnacles, man, I visit a forum where people are completely free to post ten pages on the exact points of why a certain person's mother is a prostitute, and yet it's mostly civil enough. What you did seems a little much, honestly.

[Kurosen]

That's great for those forums, but they aren't this one. We run a pretty tight ship around here. He got a couple warnings and got banned. It's only temporary anyway.

[RaiRai]

There were reasons for the banning, I don't feel that Shiney needs to explain himself. He did post the reason for the ban, as Kairamek had already had previous warnings which, in time, warrant a temporary ban. Nothing to get yourself too worked up about.

(Damn you Brian, one click ahead!)

[Gary Thunder]

Eh, fair enough. I suppose that these forums are meant only for the discussion of the book, and not insulting.

[Ticeorama]

(Paragraph removed by Mashirosen because trying to put an end to a pissy little shoving match by bringing it up all over again and trying to get your own licks in to boot is extremely goofy and Ticeorama is surely never going to do it again. Ahem.)

Anyway:
If I have to lay down another forty bucks for another one I might as well get the typo free version.
Dispite my :bmage: finding your lack of faith, dare I say, disburbing :bmage: (HA I can be funny too!), I acctually enjoyed the typos. I know that sounds kinda odd but if you know what I mean by "Organic Potery", I think you'll get my drift. It really makes you see that a person wrote this (dispite the ease of correcting some of these FRIGGIN SPELL CHECK! (ironically, I can't spell)(and i like ( )'s)). I don't know that really just clicked with me.