Blackmage needs to redeem himself somehow.

Sliths · 05-02-2009, 06:48 AM

Hell no I don't know how!

Thus far his character as been humorously 1-dimensional(or dare I say it, 8-bit). It's been great. But now that the comic is in it's final stretch anything can happen.

Black mage is also representing a classical RPG Archtype: The Dark Wizard. Whether it's Magus, Medivh, Illidan, or the cliche guy from that D&D movie who lost to some bad actor with a sword, Dark Wizards are more often than not given the same damn fate: They lose. And they don't lose for any good reason, usually. More often than not, they lose as a result of their morality choices through life. In most cases, they lose to teach the audience that bad magic is bad and we shouldn't like it cause it's bad.
The only Dark Wizard I know of who has thus far redeemed himself and proved that Dark Wizard's aren't really all that bad is, like I mentioned above, Magus. And if you haven't noticed, Magus was awesome.

Viridis · 05-02-2009, 06:53 AM

I want to see maybe one moment of regret. Like in the tone of the letter to WM.

Pip Boy · 05-02-2009, 08:04 AM

The only character growth in Black Mage is from one-dimensionally-evil to one-dimensionally-more-evil.

We like it that way.

iCat · 05-02-2009, 08:30 AM

I feel that unleashing awesome tentacles of black doom is redemption.

But that's me.

TDK · 05-02-2009, 10:02 AM

Black Mage stopped being one-dimensional a while ago. We see his pathetic approval-needing side all the time, as well as that whole deal with the letter to White Mage.

Not to mention the moment of self-introspection he goes through (The "glass cannon" thing where he starts crying.) which suggests a whole insecure thing and some fairly deep problems. He seems the kind of person (obviously) that keeps up the whole destructive/evil facade more than he wants to so that he doesn't seem vulnerable. Granted, he's still evil, but he probably doesn't want to be quite so evil, but has to because he craves everyone's approval (as demonstrated by when he tries to justify things, and rebuke the team's comments on his hygiene, etc). This all gets screwed up because he's short-sighted and doesn't get how people work too well.

Honestly, its a pretty common thing with intellectuals that he has going on there. Though its taken to extremes, obviously.

So he's still PRETTY one-dimensional on the whole, yeah, but more likely than not with what we've seen, there's more under there.

Codemonkey85 · 05-02-2009, 11:54 AM

I'm so torn about what would be a more satisfying character arc for BM by the end.

On the one hand, he could turn out to be everything everyone thought he could be, and wind up the harbinger of doom. He could face off against a (finally) wisened Fighter, who has sworn to protect the world from BM's wrath. It would be a major character development for Fighter, that's for sure... to have his eyes suddenly opened, and overcome his greatest weakness.

On the other hand, it could in fact be BM who's eyes are (re?)opened, as he finally understands that his place in the world is, in fact, to be its savior. The irony would ring clear. Of course, such a change would almost certainly accompany a tragedy... the death of WM and / or Fighter seems appropriate.

Or I guess nothing could change and the comic will end in some nonsensical shoutout to Monty Python and the Holy Grail like I used to assume.

I think no matter how the comic ends, the only disappointment will be the lack of new 8-Bit Theater. I'm not too worried about the quality of the ending.

iCat · 05-02-2009, 12:05 PM

I'd be quite unhappy if either Fight or BM died. To me their the base team of the comic.

White mage dying would suit to be a character changing moment to BM, as RM and Theif mean pretty little to him.

Codemonkey85 · 05-02-2009, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iCat

White mage dying would suit to be a character changing moment to BM, as RM and Theif mean pretty little to him.

Well, rest assured, someone you like is going to die.

Try not to take it personally. Brian's doing this to everyone.

Also, I totally agree with you on RM and Thief... which is why I figure Fighter or WM would be the martyr.

Ash Williams · 05-02-2009, 01:44 PM

If someone is going to die to have an impact on Black Mage, I think it would more likely be Fighter than White Mage.

His obsession with White Mage has been almost completely physical, he never really had an emotional connection with her. He doesn't even really care if she is happy with him, he'd be fine if he was just the guy she settled for as long as he is getting what he wants out of it. He pretty much outright said all he wants is physical gratification, even going so far as to say that as long as he gets what he wants he doesn't mind if she dies.

With Fighter, there is a big emotional connection. They have been together for a very long time, long before they even met the other Light Warriors. They've been through many hardships and experiences together. Sure Black Mage says he hates Fighter, but with all the times he's tried to kill Fighter he has never actually done it. He always just stabs him, knowing full well from experience that Fighter will survive it. If he seriously wanted to kill him he would have used some of his more powerful spells to take him out long ago.

With Fighter, he knows he will always be there so there is a sense of security in him. Not only does Fighter provide an outlet for his frustration and someone to blame when things go wrong as to avoid facing responsibility, but he also provides protection and a sense of safety. Whenever there is trouble Fighter is always there to take the hit, and to reassure Black Mage that he doesn't have to face fate alone. Fighter has pretty much been a pillar for Black Mage, the only thing that has really been supporting him no matter what has happened. He's always been there to care about him, protect him, help him out in any way he could. Without Fighter, he would have to face the reality that there is no longer that security from knowing that no matter what happens there will always be one person he can count on to be there, and will have to come to grips with the fact that the only person that ever really cared about him is gone.

I know I'm somewhat over-analyzing things, but I'm just saying that IF someone is gonna die to give Black Mage some character growth and depth, I can see it being Fighter. Of course, this is all going under the assumption that deep down Black Mage is at least a little human, but considering how evil he likes people to think he is everything I posted could be a moot point and no matter who dies it might not bother BM even a little.

The Wizard Who Did It · 05-02-2009, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TDK

Black Mage stopped being one-dimensional a while ago. We see his pathetic approval-needing side all the time, as well as that whole deal with the letter to White Mage.
...

Pretty much. A character can be entirely on one end of the alignment spectrum (evil, in this case) and still have depth.

On a similar note, redemption does not automatically equal depth. And when writers think it does, it generally ends up being poor writing.

05-02-2009, 06:48 AM	#1
Sliths Shyguy Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 122	Blackmage needs to redeem himself somehow. Hell no I don't know how! Thus far his character as been humorously 1-dimensional(or dare I say it, 8-bit). It's been great. But now that the comic is in it's final stretch anything can happen. Black mage is also representing a classical RPG Archtype: The Dark Wizard. Whether it's Magus, Medivh, Illidan, or the cliche guy from that D&D movie who lost to some bad actor with a sword, Dark Wizards are more often than not given the same damn fate: They lose. And they don't lose for any good reason, usually. More often than not, they lose as a result of their morality choices through life. In most cases, they lose to teach the audience that bad magic is bad and we shouldn't like it cause it's bad. The only Dark Wizard I know of who has thus far redeemed himself and proved that Dark Wizard's aren't really all that bad is, like I mentioned above, Magus. And if you haven't noticed, Magus was awesome.

05-02-2009, 11:54 AM	#6
Codemonkey85 Developer, time waster Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: New Milford, CT Posts: 173	I'm so torn about what would be a more satisfying character arc for BM by the end. On the one hand, he could turn out to be everything everyone thought he could be, and wind up the harbinger of doom. He could face off against a (finally) wisened Fighter, who has sworn to protect the world from BM's wrath. It would be a major character development for Fighter, that's for sure... to have his eyes suddenly opened, and overcome his greatest weakness. On the other hand, it could in fact be BM who's eyes are (re?)opened, as he finally understands that his place in the world is, in fact, to be its savior. The irony would ring clear. Of course, such a change would almost certainly accompany a tragedy... the death of WM and / or Fighter seems appropriate. Or I guess nothing could change and the comic will end in some nonsensical shoutout to Monty Python and the Holy Grail like I used to assume. I think no matter how the comic ends, the only disappointment will be the lack of new 8-Bit Theater. I'm not too worried about the quality of the ending. __________________ Follow me on Google+! Find me on GitHub!

05-02-2009, 06:53 AM	#2
Viridis oh, what fun we will have! Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Lafayette, LA Posts: 1,773	I want to see maybe one moment of regret. Like in the tone of the letter to WM.

05-02-2009, 08:04 AM	#3
Pip Boy Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: A right and proper Nerd Cave Posts: 2,460	The only character growth in Black Mage is from one-dimensionally-evil to one-dimensionally-more-evil. We like it that way.

05-02-2009, 08:30 AM	#4
iCat Troopa Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 37	I feel that unleashing awesome tentacles of black doom is redemption. But that's me.

05-02-2009, 10:02 AM	#5
TDK Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Reality Posts: 2,914	Black Mage stopped being one-dimensional a while ago. We see his pathetic approval-needing side all the time, as well as that whole deal with the letter to White Mage. Not to mention the moment of self-introspection he goes through (The "glass cannon" thing where he starts crying.) which suggests a whole insecure thing and some fairly deep problems. He seems the kind of person (obviously) that keeps up the whole destructive/evil facade more than he wants to so that he doesn't seem vulnerable. Granted, he's still evil, but he probably doesn't want to be quite so evil, but has to because he craves everyone's approval (as demonstrated by when he tries to justify things, and rebuke the team's comments on his hygiene, etc). This all gets screwed up because he's short-sighted and doesn't get how people work too well. Honestly, its a pretty common thing with intellectuals that he has going on there. Though its taken to extremes, obviously. So he's still PRETTY one-dimensional on the whole, yeah, but more likely than not with what we've seen, there's more under there.

05-02-2009, 12:05 PM	#7
iCat Troopa Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 37	I'd be quite unhappy if either Fight or BM died. To me their the base team of the comic. White mage dying would suit to be a character changing moment to BM, as RM and Theif mean pretty little to him.

05-02-2009, 01:44 PM	#9
Ash Williams Goomba Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 11	If someone is going to die to have an impact on Black Mage, I think it would more likely be Fighter than White Mage. His obsession with White Mage has been almost completely physical, he never really had an emotional connection with her. He doesn't even really care if she is happy with him, he'd be fine if he was just the guy she settled for as long as he is getting what he wants out of it. He pretty much outright said all he wants is physical gratification, even going so far as to say that as long as he gets what he wants he doesn't mind if she dies. With Fighter, there is a big emotional connection. They have been together for a very long time, long before they even met the other Light Warriors. They've been through many hardships and experiences together. Sure Black Mage says he hates Fighter, but with all the times he's tried to kill Fighter he has never actually done it. He always just stabs him, knowing full well from experience that Fighter will survive it. If he seriously wanted to kill him he would have used some of his more powerful spells to take him out long ago. With Fighter, he knows he will always be there so there is a sense of security in him. Not only does Fighter provide an outlet for his frustration and someone to blame when things go wrong as to avoid facing responsibility, but he also provides protection and a sense of safety. Whenever there is trouble Fighter is always there to take the hit, and to reassure Black Mage that he doesn't have to face fate alone. Fighter has pretty much been a pillar for Black Mage, the only thing that has really been supporting him no matter what has happened. He's always been there to care about him, protect him, help him out in any way he could. Without Fighter, he would have to face the reality that there is no longer that security from knowing that no matter what happens there will always be one person he can count on to be there, and will have to come to grips with the fact that the only person that ever really cared about him is gone. I know I'm somewhat over-analyzing things, but I'm just saying that IF someone is gonna die to give Black Mage some character growth and depth, I can see it being Fighter. Of course, this is all going under the assumption that deep down Black Mage is at least a little human, but considering how evil he likes people to think he is everything I posted could be a moot point and no matter who dies it might not bother BM even a little.