What characters do you deem 'cheap' or 'too good?'

[Mirai Gen]

Sorry to open another topic so close to opening the Tales of Phantasia one..but this has been on my mind since yesterday.

I was fighting in Soul Calibur II and throwing some shit down with Mitsurugi. As I got a 'flawless victory' against Cassandra one of my friends said, "Damn...Mitsurugi is cheap."

and it got me thinking. Mitsurugi wasn't cheap, I was just really good with him. On the other hand, I've heard far too many people say how cheap Raphel is since if you press B and K he can dodge any attack. I've also heard how Necrid is really too good because he's got a compilation of all of the characters best moves (true, but does it make him too powerful?)

Which is why I'm here. We all know Akuma is cheap with his air-fireball that keeps him 'bouncing.' Even Capcom admitted it. Who do you think is too powerful?

Personally, I don't think Necrid is cheap, because he's got all of the best moves of the game, but you have to be good to use them efficiently. Plus, he's not that good anyway IMO, so I don't like to use him. Raphel isn't cheap, because if he does that pary technique just walk up and grab him. "Parry this."

What I CAN agree to, however, is how Talim is way, wayy too good. I've seen far too many men pick up a controller and button mash with her and unleash a can of whoop ass on me. Kilik seems just slightly above average considering his amazing range, but if you sidestep or parry effectively he's no better than the others.

Many say Sophitia is cheap. No, she's just hot.

Ken and Ryu, the BREAD AND BUTTER of Street Fighter, are they 'cheap' or 'too powerful?' They were like the first balanced combatant...

this is mostly aimed at fighters, but it could be games like War/StarCraft. It's a free form topic...

oh, and by the way, let's keep this as little arguing as possible - you can disagree or say "But you can do this," but I don't want this to be closed because it turned into "No, his __ tech is easy to counter if you ___" for five pages.

Well, fire away.

[Reno]

I hate Dhalsim from SFII. Even though I can kick practically anyone I know with Ken, Dhalsim's rubbery arms just gets on my nerves. Name ONE person in life that can stretch his arms out further than his total hight? I thought so.

Yoga Yoga Yoga! Yoga Flame! Yoga Fire!

SHUT UP DHALSIM! NO ONE LIKES YOU!

[IHateMakingNames]

Akuma was only cheap and over powered in one Street Figher game (I forget which one though).

As for Ken and Ryu being over powered, never. They are the most even and balanced. characters ever (Ryu more so, since Ken has more focus on the uppercut move and the spinning kick move). Of course I can kick anyone's ass with Ryu, but that's besides the point.

And I wouldn't call anyone in SCII cheap, since I can beat anyone in SCII with Ivy (Of course, all but 1 of the people I know completely suck at most video games).


Some over powered characters though,

Juggernaught from Marvel vs. Capcom 2. You can just keep doing his down, downforward, forward+punch and win, since he doesn't get stopped by attacks, just slowed down.

Besides that, I don't know. I don't get good references to tell if some one is over powered or not.

[Otaku Son]

M. Bison was also cheap during the early SF games.

In fact, all the bosses of old fighting games were really cheap. Now they're just a bunch of pansies. Though, boss Iori in SvChaos is still cheap.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

There are countless over-powered characters in games...especially fighting ones.

King and Balanka in CvsSNK2
Bison in CvsSNK1
Kirby in Smash Bros Original
Terry in Virtual Fighter 4
Almost every end boss in any SNK game
Voldo in SCII (when the computer uses him)
Ein, 'Jannie' and Hayabusa in Dead or Alive 2 (Especially Jan Lee)
Hayabusa and Kasumi in DOA3
Etc.

So, I really think in almost every fighter there's an over-powered character. About the only one I can think of that's not like that is Smash Bros Melee. Everyone is equal in the game and there's only one UNDER powered character and that's Pichu. There's also alot of wrestling or scrolling Double Dragon type games that have characters way stronger or better skilled than others. Final Fight 2 comes to mind along with all the WWF SNES games. Probably alot more but these are just off the top of my head.

[Raerlynn]

*Ahem*

Actually Maxi is the worst for button mashing. He can chain an ungodly number of combos simply by mashing B over and over.
Talim actually has a weakness or two, her fastest attcks come from B moves. Try sidestepping her to see if it helps some.
Taki is awesome. The rolling and flipping moves are incredible when used properly.
Raphael as has been stated above can be be countered by grabbing. Also though, Many of Raph's most annoying moves target the legs, be ready for that.
Kilik is one of the easiest characters of all time. Damn near everything he throws at you can be Guard Parried. I mean EVERYTHING. (Except his pole-bitchslap)
Ivy is sheer murder against close range fighters, but anything with any kind of reach move (Raphael, Kilik, Talim, Taki, Cervantes, Necrid, Nightmare, etc.) Will get smoked in a hurry.
Mitsurugi is hard as hell to use properly, but the amount of damage you can do can be incredible when certain moves are chained just right (->K-B+VK-B+VA+B)
The sisters each have respectable reach and speed, but Sophitia is the more cautious ones, while Cassandra's attacks are more reckless.
Voldo fucking pisses me off so much it's not funny. The little bastard is near impossible to block!
Add Xiangua on that list as well, the various fake outs are irritating.

[Mirai Gen]

oh god. I forgot....I HATE Xianghua. HATE her. I LOATHE the very ground she walks on and the weapons she uses. I Hate everything about her, from her cutesy whiny voice in japanese OR english, her stupid fakeouts, etc...Every time It says "Mitsurugi versus Xianghua." I literally say "Aw HORSEshit..."

and Kenryuko, I don't see how anyone in Dead or Alive can be more powerful than someone else...they're all practically the same. Ein is pretty cheap but that's because he's a faster version of Hitomi. Kasumi is only good if you're REALLY good with her, as I've found out. And I don't know what makes Hayabusa cheap...

Also, we're forgetting Tekken. I don't like Eddie in the hands of rookies, you can button mash and kick ass. Yoshimitsu is only slightly cheap since he's a weapons fighter in a brawling game. Steve is REALLY fun, but if you do his bob-and-weave moves someone just has to kick you low and it doesn't work. He's pretty balanced.

Talim and Maxi are both aggravating, but at least I can handle Maxi...When Talim starts, that adorable little girl just unleashes a can on me...grrr....frustrating.

And as for under-powered characters...Jigglypuff from SSB original. Even IF you use her song and put someone to sleep you get to do 5% to them...WTF?

[The Oz Man]

You're all forgetting the cheapest move in the history of fighting games: E. Honda's Hundred Hand Slap in the SNES/Genesis era Street Fighter 2 games. Once Capcom gave him the ability to MOVE while doing it, it was over. Notify the next of kin. A winner is you.

I actually find Soul Calibur II pretty balanaced. I can cut a bloody swath through pretty much anyone.

Other than that, my fighting game experience only goes as far as early Mortal Kombat and the entire Smash Bros. series. The only major imbalance I can think of in the former is Sub-Zero, but even then, the CPU always seemed cheaper than me.

It's easy to get really good with just about anyone in Smash Bros., and I've seen people kick the crap out of anyone with just about any character. In fact, my friends and I usually picked out the characters we didn't have a typical player for and tried them out, just to see if they worked. This created some pretty bitchin' handlers of Donkey Kong, Yoshi, Marth, and a few of the other characters we previously reviled. The only one our group has yet to master is Roy, but he's stupid and smells like rotten asparagus anyway. So screw Roy. Screw him in the ear. In short, Smash Bros. Melee is quite balanced, and Roy is a girly-man.

And try Jigglypuff's Rest maneuver in the first SSB. Even though I agree the developers hadn't struck a balance yet, that move was still pretty insane.

[Kenryoku_Maxis]

I forgot, in Smash Bros Melee, there actually is a stand out overpowered character. They tried really hard to balance everyone and I commend HAL for it, but actually Marth is over-powered. Whenever I play in Smash Bros tournaments, about 3/4 the people who are in it use Marth (including me). The thing is, dispite what Oz says, everyone else is pretty much balanced (except Pichu which I said before), but they tried to balance Marth and Roy by giving them somewhat opposite moves of each other. So Roy has that super charge attack that can kill in one hit while Marth has his B charge that always does the same damage. And Roy's counter move always does the same damage while Marths does a veriety of damage depending on what he reflects. The problem is...Marth is faster than Roy and also has a few moves Roy cannot do. There's a trick where when people are going to come grab the ledge you can time and on a third strike, knock them down perfectly (only the computer with 50% or more health can come back from it). Only other people that can do it are Young Link with his down swipe near the edge and another I forgot (I think Yoshi). And then you add that Marth has his Mid-Air downswipe....which is probably the cheapest move in the game. When you add it all up, Marth just has more moves than everyone else plus is the fourth fastest and can take almost as many hits as Link if you know how to come back well with him (as in, people usually only kill me when I'm using Marth when I'm at 150%-175%). So, everyone I believe is quite equal except Marth is rather over-powered and Pichu is under-powered (because his own moves damage him, his range is shorter in attacking and the moves aren't that much more powerful than Pikachu's to counter these two facts).

And as for DOA, it depends which one. In DOA2, Ein, Jan Lee and Hayabusa are cheap for different reasons. When comparing those three to any other character, they come out to be the strongest characters in the game and aside from Ayane, the fastest. If you use Kasumi or Ayane vs Hayabusa or Ein, you would think they are faster (which they can be). But the problem is that Hayabusa is just as fast as Kasumi in movement and his actions are even faster....plus it takes 3 normal moves of Kasumi or Ayane to equal just one normal attack of his. Add this as well to the fat that Hayabusa lives off strong counters and chain attacks using fake out moves (much like Voldo but getting hit about 5-8 times after he fakes you out).

With Ein, he is the most powerful guy in the game to equal out his seemingly slow speed. But in truth, almost half of his moves are stun moves in which you can actually chain all his moves to take out half a persons life just by pushing the right sequence of buttons, where all other characters cannot. So, eventhough he's slower than others, his moves are some of the strongest in the game (also a great deal harder than any of the female characters) and he can continually stun you. And I don't even want to get into what he does when he traps you on a wall....

And then there's 'Jannie'. He's not as fast as Ayane doing his moves.....however he's the fastest in the game by FAR in movement and like Ein, does alot of Stun chain combos. THEN he's also as strong as Hayabusa AND his counters are the second most powerful in the game. When you add it all up, plus the computer can use him perfectly.....you get a totally cheap and over-powered character. Not to mention all of his moves are the simplest to perform in the game.

But in DOA3 they tried to even things out a bit. Its a little more balanced and Jannie and Hayabusa are a bit weaker...or Kasumi and Ayane are a bit stronger, whatever you want to think. But still, Hayabusa uses all his fake out combos. But they really advanced Kasumi's character and gave her alot more moves in 3 so Kasumi came out to be one of the stronger characters in DOA3. And although Hitomi is my favorite character in DOA (and maybe any fighter).....she doesn't exactly have a chance this side of countering as defeating a well trained Kasumi or Hayabusa because she's the slowest in the game easily. I never thought they'd make someone slower than Lei Fang....but they did.

[Dante]

Originally Posted by Otaku Son

M. Bison was also cheap during the early SF games.

In fact, all the bosses of old fighting games were really cheap. Now they're just a bunch of pansies. Though, boss Iori in SvChaos is still cheap.

He's cheap, but not cheap enough. Boss Karate is bar none the most aggravating one you can fight. So many moves of his have autoguard, he has incredible horizontal range, and his Exceed is unblockable. That's right, UNBLOCKABLE. Akuma is almost as bad, though I haven't seen people fight him in a while, and his Misogi is unblockable and almost undodgeable.

It gets to the point where you NEED to use cheesy tactics against them