Music and self-mutilation

[The_Phat_G]

It occurs to me that a thread similar to this one would have already come up at some point in time, but after a relatively thorough search, I found none.

While it's not a new development in any sense, it seems to me that the music aimed at adolecents and young adults (the particular demographic I have in mind are also from middle to upper-middle class families) is beginning to endorse, albiet not always knowingly, self-destructive habits.

The vast majority of this comes from current pop-culture trend known as "emo". It's difficult to define exactly in which genre of music emo resides, because there are elements of it in any genre, be it alternative, rap, country or whatever. However, it's most apparent in the alternative genre. Bands like Good Charlotte, Simple Plan and Bowling for Soup are some of the more popular ones at the moment. Many of their songs and more than a few of their hit singles seem to encourage the listener to feel sorry for themselves. The listener is drawn to the song usually because they feel that they identify with whatever is happening to the singer in the song. It's the typical teen angst story: "No one knows how hard I have it, the world's against me." But instead of feeling better after listening to the song and finding out that they are not in fact alone in their situation, they feel even more alienated and alone. There is no logical explaination for this, but there hardly ever is when considering emotional behavior such as this. This is often as bad as the situation becomes, the result being a slightly more angsty and rebellious teen. However, when serious depression is brought into this mix, it becomes a much more serious situation.

Adolecents and teenagers are not known for their capacity to make wise decisions. They often look for the quicker and easier ways to complete tasks, rather than take their time and find more solid and plausible solutions. Depression is no different. This is where music often comes into play. The fact that the songs they listen to are already depressing doesn't help, rather it serves to bolster the depression. The actual topic of the song doesn't matter, it could be about losing a girlfriend or problems with bullies at school, anything that would make you have a shitty day. Then they catch a lyric about cutting wrists or some other form of self-mutilation, and how it might help releave the mental anguish that the singer is going through. To person with a normal mindset, this would sound like an extremely stupid idea. Unfortunately for our hypothetical teen, the mindset they are in is not normal. The idea seems plausidble, so they try it. At first it's not a deep cut, but it still bleeds and it still hurts. But they notice that for a short time, while they were focusing on the pain from the cut, they forgot about whatever had been making them feel terrible on the inside. So they continue, and eventually, cutting themselves becomes a habit.

It seems to me that while the music is not the actual cause of a teen's self-mutilation, but it doesn't do much to discourage it. Some bands do make a valient effort to tell their fans that it's not the right thing to do. It doesn't seem to be making much of an impression though. Whenever I try to convince one of my friends who cuts themselves that it doesn't help, they adimantly defend their habit. This of course is frustrating to me, and I've almost given up on them at times.

My question is, is it possible to stem the tide of this new epidemic of self-mutilation, and how can we save these people from themselves? What could pop culture do to help, if indeed it can?

Sorry for taking so long to get to the point and making such a huge post. I'm fresh out of my first year of college, and I haven't gotten out of essay-writing mode yet.

[Lucas]

Pop culture's responsability doesn't lie in preventing the youth of today from hurting themselves. That responsability lies with the youth of today (and their parents.). Being depressed, being hurt, feeling left out are all emotional tribulations that teens undergo, yet they are critical to the development of said teens.

The gulf between child and adult is thusly so because of the chasm some call adolescence.

To be honest, i think that the new wave of self mutilation is hardly a product of music or media. Nowhere have i ever seen mutilation as the overpowering positive in a work of art, or in other media. When the subject has been approached, it has always been treated as a negative. Think the Royal Tennenbaums. If it turns out that the youth are using mutilation as a form of rebellion (because it certainly doesn't seem like they'd use it for constructive purposes), then there's no real way that media could combat the spread of mutilation.

Working against the initial feelings of alienation might work, but it could never be brought down to nothing, since teen years are biologically unsettling, as well as culturally difficult. That said, i think that the main cause in the recent upswing in self-mutilation is caused by a lack of parental influence on the youth. Due to the recent migration towards 2 income families, many youths don't really have a strong parent figure to watch over them. It would be awfully difficult to hide leg or arm full of scars if your mother took you to the doctor, for example.

Without a strong tie to a parent, youths with poor social skills will find themselves adrift in the sea of change without a shoal or rock to hold onto, in such situations mutilation must be far easier to rationalize.

Simply put: parents are more important than music, or other media when it comes to a youth's ability to cope.

[Red Fighter 1073]

Originally Posted by Lucas

That said, i think that the main cause in the recent upswing in self-mutilation is caused by a lack of parental influence on the youth. Due to the recent migration towards 2 income families, many youths don't really have a strong parent figure to watch over them. It would be awfully difficult to hide leg or arm full of scars if your mother took you to the doctor, for example.

Without a strong tie to a parent, youths with poor social skills will find themselves adrift in the sea of change without a shoal or rock to hold onto, in such situations mutilation must be far easier to rationalize.

Simply put: parents are more important than music, or other media when it comes to a youth's ability to cope.

i agree with Lucas on this point. the parents are the people that are one of the closest connections to the teen. though, if an adolescent has specifically an older sibling, then that older sibling will be closer because that person has gone through many of the same troubles that the younger one has. so, they both can relate.

what could be done is to find something that the teen likes or is good at. this could, in time, raise their self-esteem and encourage them to do better. though, the person closest to the teen has to, for the most part, let the person do their own thing. many times, a fault in parenting can be that the parent/child relationship becomes too seperate. the person needs to be able to rely on their parents for support.

Originally Posted by The_Phat_G

The actual topic of the song doesn't matter, it could be about losing a girlfriend or problems with bullies at school, anything that would make you have a shitty day. Then they catch a lyric about cutting wrists or some other form of self-mutilation, and how it might help releave the mental anguish that the singer is going through. To person with a normal mindset, this would sound like an extremely stupid idea. Unfortunately for our hypothetical teen, the mindset they are in is not normal. The idea seems plausidble, so they try it.

this thought is where the music idea becomes a little too farfetch'd. in with teens, there are ways to categorize them depending on their mental condition. there are those that achieve and feel great about themselves. then, there are those that might have bad connections with their family or they focus on things that they arent good at. the second type of teen is the kind of group that is plausible to self-mutilation and might actually consider it. to the 1st group, this idea would seem prepousterous and downright foolish. it always depends on the person's mental condition which factors in relationships, hobbies, thoughts, and other stuff.

i hope my post on this topic has helped because, after all, i AM a teenager. to be more specific, i am a 13 year old.

[Cracked But Not Broken]

I, also being a teenager (though 15), think that music like emo does help us get through angering or depressing times. I usually listen to classical and spanish guitar songs, lighter stuff which isnt just powerchords and a simple bassline, but when I'm in the "Nobody likes me, Everybody hates me" mode I listen to bands that have that kinda "I know what your going through" mentality to it, and afterwords I feel fine and relieved.

Now that could just be how I work, but I think that that is a pretty good explenation for how emo and similar genres help us teens deal with our angry or depressed moments.

[Staizer]

If pop culture wanted to do anything it would be to encourage communication. The reason teens have such a hard time is because they believe themselves to be the only ones suffering from whatever it is they are suffering from. If the teens were encouraged to discuss their lives they would see and understand that they are not alone in the world. If they were encouraged to discuss emotions and thoughts instead of being told that that is gay or pansy, or what wusses do, then they would be able to connect with people far better, and would feel far more reciprocation than when they display only their angst and anger.

[Dunxco]

Originally Posted by The_Phat_G

Bands like Good Charlotte, Simple Plan and Bowling for Soup are some of the more popular ones at the moment.

With the exception of Good Charlotte, you listed two Punk-Pop bands, rather than Emo. There's a real big difference between Good Charlotte and BFS or Simple Plan. A truer example of an Emo band would be My Chemical Romance.

Originally Posted by The_Phat_G

Many of their songs and more than a few of their hit singles seem to encourage the listener to feel sorry for themselves.

I disagree. Since when did "Girl all the bad guys want" (BFS) encourage me to hurt myself? It's a song about a hardcore rock n roll girl who everyone wants, and he's no exception. Then there's "You don't mean anything" (Simple Plan) is an upbeat song about someone breaking away from the grip of a relationship trying to change them into something they don't want to be. In contrast, My Chemical Romance's "I'm not OK" fits the mould more satisfyingly.

Originally Posted by The_Phat_G

Adolecents and teenagers are not known for their capacity to make wise decisions. They often look for the quicker and easier ways to complete tasks, rather than take their time and find more solid and plausible solutions. Depression is no different. This is where music often comes into play. The fact that the songs they listen to are already depressing doesn't help, rather it serves to bolster the depression. The actual topic of the song doesn't matter, it could be about losing a girlfriend or problems with bullies at school, anything that would make you have a shitty day. Then they catch a lyric about cutting wrists or some other form of self-mutilation, and how it might help releave the mental anguish that the singer is going through. To person with a normal mindset, this would sound like an extremely stupid idea. Unfortunately for our hypothetical teen, the mindset they are in is not normal. The idea seems plausidble, so they try it. At first it's not a deep cut, but it still bleeds and it still hurts. But they notice that for a short time, while they were focusing on the pain from the cut, they forgot about whatever had been making them feel terrible on the inside. So they continue, and eventually, cutting themselves becomes a habit.

I disagree again. You're making it sound like only Emo music is depressing, and that it's this small corner of the market that causes self-harm, which isn't true. If "My Greatest Day" or "Good Riddance (Time of your life)" serves to depress me, then I must have misread the lyrics. I thought they were about ditching school to have a kick-arse day and reminiscing about where you came from and where you're going respectively.

And I cannot recall any lyrics about cutting yourself in Punk-Pop/Rock bands (the one's you previously dubbed as "Emo") that even hints to self-mutilation. Heck, the only song I heard something vaguely related to hurting onesself is in Nine Inch Nails' "March of the Pigs" (Take the skin and peel it back, now doesn't it make you feel better?). I have friends who self-harm and avoid Emo like they would the Motaba Virus, and their arms are adorned with scars and cuts.

Originally Posted by The_Phat_G

It seems to me that while the music is not the actual cause of a teen's self-mutilation, but it doesn't do much to discourage it. Some bands do make a valient effort to tell their fans that it's not the right thing to do. It doesn't seem to be making much of an impression though. Whenever I try to convince one of my friends who cuts themselves that it doesn't help, they adimantly defend their habit. This of course is frustrating to me, and I've almost given up on them at times.

Of course it's not going to work - it's an addiction. My friends tell me the danger and harm of smoking all the time, and i'm yet to quit. I know coke addicts, and alcoholics, and just saying "You should stop, it's terrible for your health" doesn't work. Their drug of choice? The adrenaline rush that comes from the cut.

What could save them? Well, i'm sure something could, but the problem lies with the person, not the music. If you banned Emo music under the guise of "It's provoking self-mutilation" you'd suffer a horrendous backlash. I'd love to sit here and say "It's a fad, they'll pass through it" but it isn't. There's little to nothing you alone can do. You have to let the person work out that the knife/razor/sharp object at the end of the day isn't going to help, while their friends and family will.

[Mashirosen]

Due warning: if I see this thread turning into advocating cutting or my-mental-illness-is-worse-than-yours dickwaving, it's closing. This is not LiveJournal.

There's little to nothing you alone can do. You have to let the person work out that the knife/razor/sharp object at the end of the day isn't going to help, while their friends and family will.

This is pretty much it, Phat_G. Pop music can't make anyone do anything they weren't already inclined to do, whether that's cutting themselves or stopping, and until a person makes up their mind that they want to get better, there's really nothing you can do about it either, besides being there for them when they need it.

[Witness1]

I think the problem with Phat_G's arugment is that it follows so many assumtions.

Like this:
"Adolecents and teenagers are not known for their capacity to make wise decisions. They often look for the quicker and easier ways to complete tasks, rather than take their time and find more solid and plausible solutions."

Simply not true, now I am 21 years old and I no longer have the teen mind set. But I know for a fact that not all teens are like this, sure they can be moody and angsty, but thats ok and normal. Some teens might be this way, but not enough to label them all.

What I get from your arugment is that angsty behavior -> depression ->self-mutilation, with emo music being the catalist.

This is not true either, angsty beavior -> depression is sligthly true, but it has more to do with stress or going threw a rough time, like your parents divorice etc.

As far as emo muisc, I have found no scientific evidence that this type of music or any other type can lead a person who is borderline depressed, into fool blown depression.

Atbest its propably like the "videogame makes people violent" arugement. Its not true for the majority of people. With the exception of a small percent, and in that case there is useally something else wrong with them.

Also, I have found no evidence that depression will cause somebody to inflict self-mutilation.

On a side note: When I was in high school, I listened to Led Zeppelin and Pink Flyod. (Because, you know, I was one of the cool kids) There where alot of songs about drepessing things like your girlfriend leaving you, or about how lonely you felt. So I dont see todays music as some sort of pop culture trend to get kids to buy there music by appeling to there agnsty feelings.

[Mental-Rectangle]

I'm such a lucky bastard. The first music I got hooked on was and still is good, and my catalogue has expanded very positively from that. I managed to dodge the entire emo bullcrap thing, nu-metal, crappy bands pretending to be post-rock, or crappy indy rock, but I attribute it to dumb luck more than anything else. Seems like everyone's had a brush with one of those.

[P-Sleazy]

Im currently listening to the "Best of" CD of Pink Floyd and I havent heard anything that could be related to emo. I have been listening to BFS and have yet to hear a single lyric in thier songs that would even suggest self-mutilation. Same goes with Simple Plan in which thier first hit "Perfect" is about how a guy wanted to have a better relationship with his old man.

back on topic. All the people i know who cut themselves dont even come close to listening to emo. They hate bands like Good Charlotte. They OMNILOATHE THEM!

And in the one person who cuts themselves that im interested in helping has a very weak relationship with her whole family and the person has difficulty keeping friends due to her dads annual move cause of a job. When i talked to her about the self mutilation, she didnt lie to me about what they did to self mutilate themselves. she gave me the honest truth and showed me the scars and when asked why they did so she just flat out said that it temporarily numbed her emotional pain their currently feeling inside. I mean good grief, some of these people are that desperate that they will self mutilate themselves in public places. No its not the music thats causing this. Its their relationships with the people they feel closest too...or should feel close to that causes this self-mutilation.