Boycott Atlus - Page 21

Solid Snake · 07-03-2012, 03:10 PM

Heck, there are ways for an author to inform the reader that 'homophobia / transphobia is a character flaw' even in the context of writing a homophobic or transphobic character who never receives a literal or metaphorical karmic comeuppance. It's much tougher to write, and it requires a degree of skill in narration that I doubt most writers possess (let alone the ones employed by Atlus), but it's certainly been done.

You can have Yu get all the ladies, all the respect and all the friendship is magic and still have an undercurrent in the narration of "It's totally not okay for Yu to be homophobic, and the fact that society still adores him unequivocally despite his prejudices is society's fault because society is shallow and superficial and prejudiced." Writers have a lot of tools in their arsenal to attempt just that feat, but the degree of subtlety makes it a better approach in literature than in a mainstream, mass-market video game.

rpgdemon · 07-03-2012, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fenris

Probably for the best.

No it's not! Pip was someone who was at one point interested in the message to some extent, who is now disenfranchised. This is the opposite of the best! This is actually the worst.

***Fenris*** · 07-03-2012, 03:12 PM

@rpg what thread are you reading

e: It seems to me that Pip was mostly interested in trying to explain why this is Totally Not A Bad Thing That Is Happening and not somebody who actually acknowledges that This Is A Pretty Terrible Thing That Is Happening.

CABAL49 · 07-03-2012, 03:16 PM

I feel this is relevant.

rpgdemon · 07-03-2012, 03:19 PM

Funny thing is, I'm still more comfortable with that than the CoP art.

Pip Boy · 07-03-2012, 03:20 PM

I feel Fenris has been insensitive to me in this thread. Does that mean I can call him an idiot fuck three times, once in all caps, without disciplinary action?

I mean I can see how insensitive jerk would be a more appropriate phrase that is both more accurate and more conducive to a thoughtful discussion, but I'm just really getting an "idiot fuck" vibe so Im going to go for that and its okay as long as I act offended enough about something that Im too victimized to be held accountable for anything.

***Fenris*** · 07-03-2012, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

I feel Fenris has been insensitive to me in this thread. Does that mean I can call him an idiot fuck three times, once in all caps, without disciplinary action?

You're welcome to try!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

I mean I can see how insensitive jerk would be a more appropriate phrase that is both more accurate and more conducive to a thoughtful discussion, but I'm just really getting an "idiot fuck" vibe so Im going to go for that and its okay as long as I act butthurt enough about something that Im too victimized to be help accountable for anything.

So are we straight up admitting that you don't view that transphobia is a societal issue and is instead just something that Liz brings upon herself?

Just want to make sure this isn't just another case of you wording things in the worst possible way, because that is literally what you just said.

rpgdemon · 07-03-2012, 03:26 PM

It comes to my attention that I WAS reading different things than you, Fenris, since I'm privy to what posts I've been repped on, and forgot that I read it in a rep message.

http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthr...75#post1204075

Rep message: "Thank you for writing the post I almost wrote but then said "IDGAF""

So, that's where I'm coming from regarding Pip Boy being interested but disenfranchised, and shooing him out being the worst thing.

Pip Boy · 07-03-2012, 03:26 PM

no, I feel that transphobia is a very real society issue that nonetheless is being used to give anyone supporting it free reign to be idiot fucks without consequence.

***Fenris*** · 07-03-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pip Boy

no, I feel that transphobia is a very real society issue that nonetheless is being used to give anyone supporting it free reign to be idiot fucks without consequence.

Yes, people supporting transphobia are idiot fucks, I'm glad we agree.

That's the only thing I'm getting out of your post, verb the adjective noun?

07-03-2012, 03:10 PM	#201
Solid Snake Erotic Esquire Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 5,563	Heck, there are ways for an author to inform the reader that 'homophobia / transphobia is a character flaw' even in the context of writing a homophobic or transphobic character who never receives a literal or metaphorical karmic comeuppance. It's much tougher to write, and it requires a degree of skill in narration that I doubt most writers possess (let alone the ones employed by Atlus), but it's certainly been done. You can have Yu get all the ladies, all the respect and all the friendship is magic and still have an undercurrent in the narration of "It's totally not okay for Yu to be homophobic, and the fact that society still adores him unequivocally despite his prejudices is society's fault because society is shallow and superficial and prejudiced." Writers have a lot of tools in their arsenal to attempt just that feat, but the degree of subtlety makes it a better approach in literature than in a mainstream, mass-market video game. __________________ *WARNING:* Snek's all up in this thread. Be prepared to read massive walls of text.

07-03-2012, 03:12 PM	#203
*Fenris* Administrator Join Date: May 2005 Location: East Coast Posts: 6,806	@rpg what thread are you reading e: It seems to me that Pip was mostly interested in trying to explain why this is Totally Not A Bad Thing That Is Happening and not somebody who actually acknowledges that This Is A Pretty Terrible Thing That Is Happening. __________________ "FENRIS IS AN ASSHOLE" - shiney

07-03-2012, 03:19 PM	#205
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	Funny thing is, I'm still more comfortable with that than the CoP art. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

07-03-2012, 03:20 PM	#206
Pip Boy Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: A right and proper Nerd Cave Posts: 2,460	I feel Fenris has been insensitive to me in this thread. Does that mean I can call him an idiot fuck three times, once in all caps, without disciplinary action? I mean I can see how insensitive jerk would be a more appropriate phrase that is both more accurate and more conducive to a thoughtful discussion, but I'm just really getting an "idiot fuck" vibe so Im going to go for that and its okay as long as I act offended enough about something that Im too victimized to be held accountable for anything. Last edited by Pip Boy; 07-03-2012 at 03:24 PM.

07-03-2012, 03:26 PM	#208
rpgdemon Not a Taco Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 3,313	It comes to my attention that I WAS reading different things than you, Fenris, since I'm privy to what posts I've been repped on, and forgot that I read it in a rep message. http://www.nuklearforums.com/showthr...75#post1204075 Rep message: "Thank you for writing the post I almost wrote but then said "IDGAF"" So, that's where I'm coming from regarding Pip Boy being interested but disenfranchised, and shooing him out being the worst thing. __________________ I did a lot of posting on here as a teenager, and I was pretty awful. Even after I learned, grew up, and came to be on the right side of a lot of important issues, I was still angry, abrasive, and generally increased the amount of hate in the world, in pretty unacceptable ways. On the off chance that someone is taking a trip down memory lane looking through those old threads, I wanted to devote my signature to say directly to you, I'm sorry. Thank you for letting me be better, NPF.

07-03-2012, 03:16 PM	#204
CABAL49 Not bad. Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Senatus Populusque Americanus Posts: 1,584	I feel this is relevant.

07-03-2012, 03:26 PM	#209
Pip Boy Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: A right and proper Nerd Cave Posts: 2,460	no, I feel that transphobia is a very real society issue that nonetheless is being used to give anyone supporting it free reign to be idiot fucks without consequence.