Boycott Atlus

[Drownball-Champ]

Originally Posted by shiney

This is an argument that will go nowhere, because some women don't mind being objectified, and some women feel strongly opposed to being objectified. Women wouldn't appear nearly nude on magazine covers, or fully nude inside some, or be more or less blatantly used as sex objects in a multitude of advertising venues if those women themselves were opposed to it. Conversely, the very appearance of those women make other women feel uncomfortable as their gender shouldn't be reduced to a simple sexual image or object.

You will find two camps regarding this issue, strictly within the female gender, never minding the shades of grey, and to argue it in this arena is going to end up going nowhere. We as a culture celebrate sexuality while simultaneously repressing it, and there are arguments both for and against it. Making blanket statements about a nuanced issue is only going to end up looking foolish.

Edit: so quit sniping at each other you two.

I can agree with this. Neither side will ever convince the other.

[shiney]

I mean ultimately, continuing on from prior rant, it's the woman being objectified, and the viewer being stereotyped. The advertising exists because the market assumes you want to see breasts and big full dick suckin' lips. Is this what will sway you to buy this new brand of paper towels? Probably not, but the market dictates. So women are objectified, and the viewer is stereotyped. Bad! But wait, the women volunteer for this knowing full well what the outcome will be. So they are being objectified, but willingly? So, bad? Probably still a poor mark on our cultural report card. But hang on, the marketing tends to work, resulting in profits and creating an industry of sexually charged advertisement. Probably even more bad. So people protest, saying "women aren't just sex objects". Which is true. For those women, but maybe not the ones who appear in these ads? Maybe some women like being a sex object and don't care about the broad (snerk) implications of it.

Bitching at each other about the minutia of a forum post is the least productive way of discussing the issue, in any case. Taking words out of context, or utilizing ridiculously poor phrasing and shoving the equivalent of three feet, half a leg and maybe a knee in one's mouth. Unhelpful.

[Ramary]

Originally Posted by shiney

This is an argument that will go nowhere, because some women don't mind being objectified, and some women feel strongly opposed to being objectified. Women wouldn't appear nearly nude on magazine covers, or fully nude inside some, or be more or less blatantly used as sex objects in a multitude of advertising venues if those women themselves were opposed to it. Conversely, the very appearance of those women make other women feel uncomfortable as their gender shouldn't be reduced to a simple sexual image or object.

You will find two camps regarding this issue, strictly within the female gender, never minding the shades of grey, and to argue it in this arena is going to end up going nowhere. We as a culture celebrate sexuality while simultaneously repressing it, and there are arguments both for and against it. Making blanket statements about a nuanced issue is only going to end up looking foolish.

Edit: so quit sniping at each other you two.

I was gonna type out a huge long thing buuuuuut yeah this is basically what I was gonna say.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Drownball-Champ

I messed up on that message. The edit was posted simultaneously with your message.

Your edited version still says "I have no problem with objectifying women."

Which is fucked, because women being objectified is never okay. Women should never be treated as a mere object of sexual gratification, and studies have shown that, because of our sexist culture, people's minds interpret sexualized women differently than they do sexualized men.

Where did I say others doing it makes OK? I said women allowing it implies they have no problem with it.

This is stupid.

No woman or group of women speaks for all women. Saying, "Well, they don't mind so obviously women don't mind," is absurd.

That said, I'm not going to get on any woman's case for trying to succeed in our sexist society. I have all sorts of hatred for Maxim. I have no hatred for the women who work for Maxim, at least for them doing their jobs. Maybe some of them are super racist. Fuck if I know.

There's nothing wrong with sexuality. However, the way our culture constantly sexualizes women does contribute to sexism as a whole. That is why I'm calling out examples of Atlus doing it.

[IHateMakingNames]

Originally Posted by shiney

want to see breasts and big full dick suckin' lips.

Comparing how he wrote these I'm pretty sure we know what shiney likes to see on a woman.

[shiney]

Or on my nuts!

[Professor Smarmiarty]

This thread is terrible. This is what happens when you ban the smarts. Only I can hold back the darkness. I have embraced the madness and now it is my foe... and my secret guide.

[Jagos]

Maybe I'm in the minority, but Liz's argument is rather weak based on what rpg is saying.

I don't see the case that needs to be made in regards to boycotting Atlus when we don't do the same for other companies. If you want to expose and shame Atlus, it'll be rather difficult to have their example being used for others without a large number of people for support.

I've seen one screen shot of a guy talking about "Target Acquired" and a few screenshots of a scantily clad woman that's similar to WitchBlade. So why is this game to be "shamed" when you compare it to other games or other media where women will wear similar things?

Maybe it's because of my own naivete of transgender issues, but I would need more information before I'm throwing my support behind this. I have to say this sounds very similar to what Anita Sarkeesian is doing in regards women in media and I have to say that seems to make a far better case for women's rights. Can this work with gay rights? Sure, but there seriously needs to be a better case presented before I'll support this particular endeavor.

[Sifright]

....... Y'all seem to be willfully missing the point. It's like saying WELL GUYS I MEAN I KNOW YOUR SHIT FUCKING POOR AND CAN ONLY EAT A TIN OF BEANS once a day. BUT THEM GUYS OVER THERE THEY CANT EVEN DO THAT WHY NOT GO SUPPORT THEM INSTEAD.

and then you all disperse and ignore all the poor afterwards.

What aboutery is fucking massive nonsense.

"

Originally Posted by Jagos

Maybe I'm in the minority, but Liz's argument is rather weak based on what rpg is saying.

I don't see the case that needs to be made in regards to boycotting Atlus when we don't do the same for other companies. If you want to expose and shame Atlus, it'll be rather difficult to have their example being used for others without a large number of people for support.

I've seen one screen shot of a guy talking about "Target Acquired" and a few screenshots of a scantily clad woman that's similar to WitchBlade. So why is this game to be "shamed" when you compare it to other games or other media where women will wear similar things?

Maybe it's because of my own naivete of transgender issues, but I would need more information before I'm throwing my support behind this. I have to say this sounds very similar to what Anita Sarkeesian is doing in regards women in media and I have to say that seems to make a far better case for women's rights. Can this work with gay rights? Sure, but there seriously needs to be a better case presented before I'll support this particular endeavor.

more importantly i'm coming around to Liz point of view on the majority of people here being massively privileged and just flat out being incapable of understanding minority issues because you've never had to deal with being treated like shit on a societal scale, The correct answer to every thing is shit why don't you protest all these other worse companies because its fucking silly.

You choose a single point and you demolish it. It's the only effective way to send a message. If you try and distribute your message/attack/attempt at change at to wide a segment you will achieve nothing because we as consumers have little power on a wide scale it's only when focusing on a single target that consumers have any real power.

TL-DR your arguments are ridiculous, because you are willfully being ignorant of the nuances of everything.

Edit:

Originally Posted by Jagos

Maybe I'm in the minority, but Liz's argument is rather weak based on what rpg is saying.

I don't see the case that needs to be made in regards to boycotting Atlus when we don't do the same for other companies.

Wait wait I missed this. Are you fucking kidding me? Seriously?

"This group of people are fucking terrible but them over there THEY ARE EVEN WORSE AND NO ONE CARES.... SO FUCK YOUR PROTEST !!!"

Seriously Jagos what the fuck.

[Sifright]

hey pip boy, you miss the part where Jagos compares it to the rest of the shitty bullshit going around and says hey the worse stuff doesn't get boycotted why should i care about this. Basically saying because the majority dont give a shit i wont either.

I've seen one screen shot of a guy talking about "Target Acquired" and a few screenshots of a scantily clad woman that's similar to WitchBlade. So why is this game to be "shamed" when you compare it to other games or other media where women will wear similar things?

The obvious answer being because we don't compare shit to its peers but to how shit should be.