Boycott Atlus

[Aldurin]

Since I'm popping in here for off-topic reasons, I might as well leave that while I have reservations about the effectiveness of a boycott, transphobia or really any stigma based on someone's personal choices is wrong and props to Liz for taking initiative to take action against it.

Back on my off-topic.

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

BRB going to cry tears of blood like Enoby in My Immortal

The fact that you read that (or claimed to read that, I can't tell since the most I could do was listen to 10 seconds and post a video of the reading) leaves me with a simultaneous feeling of "Snake makes complete sense now" and "What? What? Whaaaaaaaaaaat?". Congratulations for ruining my faith in the integrity of the universe.

As you were, people.

[EVILNess]

Originally Posted by synkr0nized

holy fuck
Can we move forward instead of continuing to make posts about "You shouldn't use this word" or "Don't be mad." ?

Yeah, that's cool.

I ain't telling Liz not to get mad though. I was just trying to say don't get into a mud slinging match with every naysayer, cause she would probably choke on all the bile and hate.

EDIT well crap accidently deleted middle part. Basically, said keep up the good content on your blogs and dont let your temper undermine that work

Honestly, I think Liz is doing pretty good on this front so far, because dayum some of those reblogs are fucking mean.

[Kim]

That sure looks like a tone argument.

Ended up making a post about "Why target Atlus?" because it is a question I am sick of getting and now I can just past this link over and over again when people ask or make dumb arguments about how Atlus is a bad target.

[Nikose Tyris]

Originally Posted by Liz

That sure looks like a tone argument.

Ended up making a post about "Why target Atlus?" because it is a question I am sick of getting and now I can just past this link over and over again when people ask or make dumb arguments about how Atlus is a bad target.

I am confused and it may be because I have not played any Atlus titles, so I am going to ask as a genuine question:

Are all games social commentary, or just Atlus titles? And if so, what defines them as social commentary?

I fully believe you when you tell me they are social commentary but I am confused and would just like clarification

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

I am confused and it may be because I have not played any Atlus titles, so I am going to ask as a genuine question:

Are all games social commentary, or just Atlus titles? And if so, what defines them as social commentary?

I fully believe you when you tell me they are social commentary but I am confused and would just like clarification

Most games tend to be mindless fun, although you can still infer some obvious info from them *think Military shooters where the enemy is almost always brown people terrorists that need exploding* or have nothing to do with society at large puzzle games or platformers set in alternative worlds.

What sets games like Persona apart, is that they take place in a world that is supposed to be much like ours, The protagonist is kind of a blank slate and we get to direct story flow (to a limited degree) the game focuses very heavily on a social dynamic between the cast members/characters which is why it is a social commentary the way the characters interact with each other is supposed to be realistic even if the premise of the game (TV alt reality) isn't, the character interactions are mostly idealized and show how we should treat each other. For many of the character in persona outside of Kanji and Naoto, you learn about their pasts and treat them in a friendly and respectful manner, with Naoto and Kanji that disappears completely as you learn about their insecurities.

Edit: I hope that helps, I'm not very good at writing down my thoughts in a coherent manner if anything is still confusing don't hesitate to ask.

Double Edit: it's also probably better to get Liz's views on this as i'm sure she will be able to articulate the hows and whys more eloquently.

[Ryong]

Originally Posted by EVILNess

because dayum some of those reblogs are fucking mean.

While this is true, I'd like to mention that some of the reblogs about Naoto shed some light on that there are a lot of different character interpretations, just as there was a post here from that one Atlus thread. Okay, the whole "let's sexualize this character because she's a girl" and how the other characters go check her medical records are dickish, yes. The "let's pick on this person by putting her in a situation she's not used to" I'd say is a common enough thing not to warrant complaints. Otherwise let's complain about Celes feeling shy about wearing a dress for the opera in FF6, for example.

No, I don't believe Naoto actually wants to be a man any more than she's influenced by media that, if she wants to be a hero/cop/detective she has to be a man. I don't see you making social commentary on how Mulan actually wanted to be a dude and yet it's the same thing.

The result is a strange mix of trying to show how media influences people and, ironically, of the game itself being sexist with the outfits and some of the interactions between characters.

[Kim]

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

I am confused and it may be because I have not played any Atlus titles, so I am going to ask as a genuine question:

Are all games social commentary, or just Atlus titles? And if so, what defines them as social commentary?

I fully believe you when you tell me they are social commentary but I am confused and would just like clarification

Many of the characters are commenting on aspects of Japanese society or society as a whole.

1. Ginko in Persona 2 is partially a commentary on racism in Japan.

2. Naoto is intended as commentary on sexism.

3. Kanji is intended as a criticism of gender roles.

4. Catherine is a heterocentrist commentary on Japan's declining population or some shit.

Etc.

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Ryong

While this is true, I'd like to mention that some of the reblogs about Naoto shed some light on that there are a lot of different character interpretations, just as there was a post here from that one Atlus thread. Okay, the whole "let's sexualize this character because she's a girl" and how the other characters go check her medical records are dickish, yes. The "let's pick on this person by putting her in a situation she's not used to" I'd say is a common enough thing not to warrant complaints. Otherwise let's complain about Celes feeling shy about wearing a dress for the opera in FF6, for example.

No, I don't believe Naoto actually wants to be a man any more than she's influenced by media that, if she wants to be a hero/cop/detective she has to be a man. I don't see you making social commentary on how Mulan actually wanted to be a dude and yet it's the same thing.

The result is a strange mix of trying to show how media influences people and, ironically, of the game itself being sexist with the outfits and some of the interactions between characters.

WRONG. I'll explain just why this is outrageously wrong.


Remember in Person 4 All the of the dungeons represent the characters INNER FEARS and INSECURITIES

With Kanji we learn in his dungeon that he is Gay and afraid of being outed the reason why becomes obvious when the female characters want to beat the shit out of his shadow persona for being flamboyant and gay.

In Naotos case the Dungeon shows Naoto wanting a sex change surgery specifically through the 'mad scientist experiment' some one that merely wanted to escape sexism doesn't secretly want to actually be a man they just want people to stop being ass holes.

This is a very very very simple part of the game. Every ones dungeons show their deepest darkest fears and insecurities if other people aren't seeing it in this way it is literally because they are misinterpreting the story cues the game gives.

Edit: there is a huge difference between wanting to avoid sexism and wanting to fucking change gender. Naotos dungeon show cases wanting to change gender not wanting to escape sexism.

Double edit: Basically all the shadow personas are aspects of themselves they are heavily supressing or hiding from those around them. Notice how every other character has to accept their shadow aspects to survive? Where as Kanji and Naoto the resolution is much more wishywashy and they don't truly accept their shadow personas.

[Nikose Tyris]

Alright, Thank you Bells and Liz, I understand now.

[Sifright]

Originally Posted by Nikose Tyris

Alright, Thank you Bells and Liz, I understand now.

did... Did I just get called Bells? I mean it was funny when that happened to snake... but man..