Nothing is as it Seems Mafia: The Game

[Pink Bunny]

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

I've been in cults WAY to many times to know how they work. If you have a sensible cult leader who knows what he's doing, its remarkably easy to win (See Bleach Mafia and Totally Rigged Mafia in particular).

Its a good thing you have experience then. You may win this game using it.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

To put it simply, the cult isn't about offing everyone else from the game, its about survivability while everyone offs eachother off. You have to carefully monitor EVERYONE in the game at all stages and pick and choose the people you beleive will not be killed. In addition, player history matters alot too. People like me probably aren't gonna get culted unless theres a guarantee that I have something they want. Why? Because I talk to much. I also go to the border of death way too often in most of the games.

You're correct. It is about survivability. In fact, you want as few killers out there as possible, or hopefully stir the pot a little if no one is incriminating each other. That way you won't get random killed. And if there's less killers, there's a lesser chance of you being killed.

Knowing how Cult ticks in that fashion and knowing its about survivability, I believe, no, I know, you're the one who just said they wouldn't change their vote from Demetrius until further notice because you want to slow the killing. Gee. Aren't we being a little obvious?

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

EDIT: Also, you forgot that if the cult head dies, the oldest inductee after 4 nights becomes the new leader, so its not just about cutting the head off and the cult head immediately dies if culting a mafiate. DOUBLE EDIT: correction, cult leadership doesn't pass down. Mixing up games here.

Heh, I was about to say...

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

So, of the people killed, who do I think may have been culted?

Tophat and Ugainus are the two most likely people to have been culted. They've kept fairly low profiles most of the game.

Ugainus wasn't Cult. He was a townie upon death and we all got to see his body. Tophat I can't say, but since you're willing to say Ugainus was likely cult I'm willing to chalk this up as you trying to cover up the numbers.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

I'm not gonna mention the living list. Because that'll just give targets to the anti-cults on who to kill and cults on who not to induct.

Fair.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

The bigger players who are fairly talkative in games are usually inducted later in the game once they've proven their usefulness to the town but not quite a threat to the mafia.

Yeeep. But we're not that far in right now, and its not like the Cult Leader chose to Cultify himself, did he?

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

And its not so much me stalling, as me trying to figure out how to deal with you at the moment. You haven't proven your towniness, but with phrases like these


You make it sound like you're part of a mafia now too.

Hahahaha! Funny man. I've got a cool quote for you, it sums up my feelings on the matter.

Originally Posted by Ape Boy

Hey, awesome!

Now I'm a Cult-Immune, Cult Leading, Mafiate Cop!

Role so bad-ass and ridiculously awesome, it has no concievable color scheme! It's THAT good!

[Ape Boy]

Edit: Awesome ninja, I was about to bring up my Village quote, as well. Then again, you were part of the group putting me with all those powers, so maybe it's just karma!:p

...And I think Newb's suspicion from the bottom of the last page may have legs.

[P-Sleazy]

Originally Posted by Pink Bunny

Its a good thing you have experience then. You may win this game using it.

Good thing I'm not trying to blend in with everyone else then isn't it?

Originally Posted by Pink

You're correct. It is about survivability. In fact, you want as few killers out there as possible, or hopefully stir the pot a little if no one is incriminating each other. That way you won't get random killed. And if there's less killers, there's a lesser chance of you being killed.

Thanks for agreeing with me on that, if for the wrong reasons. Cause cults want more killers out there for them to control.

Originally Posted by Pink

Knowing how Cult ticks in that fashion and knowing its about survivability, I believe, no, I know, you're the one who just said they wouldn't change their vote from Demetrius until further notice because you want to slow the killing. Gee. Aren't we being a little obvious?

I beleive I'm trying to speed up, not slow down, the killing if Demetrius is the best lead we have. Not to mention he has the most votes on him AND he's pretty much almost confirmed scum (Self proclamation can't be 100% proof of his scumminess)

Originally Posted by Pink

Ugainus wasn't Cult. He was a townie upon death and we all got to see his body. Tophat I can't say, but since you're willing to say Ugainus was likely cult I'm willing to chalk this up as you trying to cover up the numbers.

I said Ugainus and Tophat were the two most likely out of the dead people to have been culted. Just means those are two guys I'd have thought would have been culted, despite thier death and knowledge of one of thier roles.

Originally Posted by Pink

Yeeep. But we're not that far in right now, and its not like the Cult Leader chose to Cultify himself, did he?

No, but its also not like he's just sitting there twiddling his thumbs either.

Originally Posted by Pink

Hahahaha! Funny man. I've got a cool quote for you, it sums up my feelings on the matter.

All we have to go on right now is your word that you're town and that you're unlynchable. Doesn't make it true since we haven't wasted a lynch to prove it. So anything is still possible with you. Only 2 people I'm relatively sure about is Newb and Ole Dude WTF.

EDIT NOTE: inserted a quote inside the last quote of pink bunny to clarify what she was talking about and what I'm later refering too.

[Pink Bunny]

I think so too. It looks like B_Real tried to cult RR, but failed because RR is already culted/believes in another power.

Which leads me to believe that the other Cult Leader is either Banana or Zilla. As it has already been implied by someone else, Zilla is more likely the culprit instead of Banana. Also because of her rather odd reason for wanting Demetrius dead; to verify his claim? That doesn't sound right. Just say you want the SK dead because he's the SK, don't say you want to see if he's telling the truth. Its illogical when there's such a better way to go about it like CC or Rydaman.

Why do I think it could be Banana or Zilla because of RR?
Because after those two voted, in particular Zilla, RR immediately changed his mind on voting on ODWTF without any explanation to join that bandwagon.

So I think he was helping his leader out. Please remember that this bandwagon became a third vote from RR joining, so it wasn't a very extensive bandwagon.

Edit: And reply stuff!

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

Good thing I'm not trying to blend in with everyone else then isn't it?

Thanks for agreeing with me on that, if for the wrong reasons. Cause cults want more killers out there for them to control.

No... Serial Killers normally can't be Culted from what few examples of SKs being targeted that I've seen. They want everyone dead, period. Also wanting more killers out there to control is illogical of the Cult Leader in question.

You want all of the killers on the field, but you don't want more. If there's a limited amount of killers as long as you aren't too outspoken you probably won't be lynched and you'll gather a larger arsenal of people under your wing. But you do want to control all the killers that exist to help set up clues and end the game faster before a lynch occurs-- and to avoid them from killing you. There should be no reason at all to wish for more killers to be in the game though, that just makes it harder to keep the game under your control.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

I beleive I'm trying to speed up, not slow down, the killing if Demetrius is the best lead we have. Not to mention he has the most votes on him AND he's pretty much almost confirmed scum (Self proclamation can't be 100% proof of his scumminess)

Do I sincerely have to dig up the post that said you were doing this to slow down the killing? Because you did say it. You wanted kills to SLOW DOWN.

Sigh. Fine.
Post number 607, in particular this nugget of wisdom.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

So in the interest of slowing the death rate my vote stays until further notice.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

I said Ugainus and Tophat were the two most likely out of the dead people to have been culted. Just means those are two guys I'd have thought would have been culted, despite thier death and knowledge of one of thier roles.

I think you posted them as red herrings to distract people and seed doubt. Personally I think Nayno is your inductee and RR is Zilla's.

Originally Posted by B_real_shadows

No, but its also not like he's just sitting there twiddling his thumbs either.

All we have to go on right now is your word that you're town and that you're unlynchable. Doesn't make it true since we haven't wasted a lynch to prove it. So anything is still possible with you. Only 2 people I'm relatively sure about is Newb and Ole Dude WTF.

EDIT NOTE: inserted a quote inside the last quote of pink bunny to clarify what she was talking about and what I'm later refering too.

I'm not all that threatening really.
I'm a nice, considerate person who admires and respects your attempt at tomfoolery.
Why, had it been another game or two ago I'd even support your madness! Honest and for true. You had a great run.

[P-Sleazy]

Originally Posted by Pink

No... Serial Killers normally can't be Culted from what few examples of SKs being targeted that I've seen. They want everyone dead, period. Also wanting more killers out there to control is illogical of the Cult Leader in question.

No, thats just the Serial Killers goal to win. And is it my fault the cult leaders never inducted the SKs?

Originally Posted by Pink

You want all of the killers on the field, but you don't want more. If there's a limited amount of killers as long as you aren't too outspoken you probably won't be lynched and you'll gather a larger arsenal of people under your wing. But you do want to control all the killers that exist to help set up clues and end the game faster before a lynch occurs-- and to avoid them from killing you. There should be no reason at all to wish for more killers to be in the game though, that just makes it harder to keep the game under your control.

Again, we're agreed that Demetrius is a bad to have around for the town and he should be killed.

And I beleive you took misunderstood what each is saying.

Originally Posted by Me

I beleive I'm trying to speed up, not slow down, the killing if Demetrius is the best lead we have. Not to mention he has the most votes on him AND he's pretty much almost confirmed scum (Self proclamation can't be 100% proof of his scumminess)

That was me speeding up the death of Demetrius by keeping my vote on him adding to his lynch count.

Originally Posted by ME

So in the interest of slowing the death rate my vote stays until further notice.

Key words bolded. Death Rate. The rate at which people die. By killing Demetrius, the death rate goes down in that there is one less killing at night. Where 5 people would have died at night, 4 die instead*.

So no, I'm not being contradictory to my self. By speedily taking out Demetrius (today mind you), we are slowing down the rate at which people die because Demetrius won't be there to kill at night whereas we're still gonna kill during the day regardless of wether Demetrius is in the game or not.

*the 5 and 4 are fictional numbers for night deaths. Just there as an example.

[Pink Bunny]

I'm aware. I've been arguing Death Rate all along.
We currently need a high death rate to stand a chance.

We want a high death rate to take out the Cult Leaders so they won't grow massive.
We want the Mafias to murder each other while they try to gun town. They're just as likely to kill each other as us.

Demetrius can't win. He ups the Death Rate on killing the Cult.

Although to be fair, I don't think we need Demetrius nearly as much as I wanted to keep him now. I'm fairly convinced you're a Cult Head.

If possible, I'd like to lynch you today and have Zilla killed tonight. Or ideally Zilla and Demetrius killed tonight. It'll be good for both Town and Mafia. As long as one cult head is killed today we'll eliminate another Cult victim from the mix.

If both cult leaders live this lynch, we'll get two people converted and we won't know who the converts are.

If we lynch a cult leader now, we'll only have one convert, and we will know who Demetrius kills if not roleblocked. Having one known, dead person and a convert is much safer than having two converts we can't trace.

Edited for clarity.

[bananarama]

As much as I hate this:

Unvote: Demetrius

I don't like the fact that I'm letting a possible SK go (yeah I'm still not sure if you're telling the truth or not) and there's the fact that I was trying so hard to kill the guy and now I'm letting him go... But PB's argument is sound. Letting Dem take out possible threats is a good idea and there's now no way Dem can win this so let him have his fun.

B_Real, you got suspicious vibes all over you. First, you want Dem dead just because he voted for somebody who wasn't in the game? Come on! Why didn't you vote for Silly Kitty? Her vote on everyone was also suspicious and yet you want to consistently want to lynch someone for making a joke vote. Why? And then, you want to waste a lynch to kill someone who has no chance of winning and your posts seem to be getting more and more frantic as you try ever so hard to kill Dem (though the fact that he's about to kill you may have something to do with it XD). At any rate, I don't trust you very much so I'll try to let Dem kill you and be done with it. Sucks to be you, I guess. (Oh yeah, and Dem? If you're still alive this night and you don't even attempt to kill B_Real, I'll assume you were bluffing about that roleclaim and immediately vote for you next day... that is if I am still alive of course....)

Now all that is left is DP, RR, Areozord, Zilla, and well... me. DP and Zilla have avoided posting very much and seeing how they're new to this game, I think they are trying to sit real quietly and hope that nobody suspects them. Also, all the people on this list have tried to kill Dem for really bad reasoning for so late in the game. I don't think DP is worth a lynch yet though. RR is gone for now and although we could lynch him so easily since he won't argue against it, I'd rather wait until he comes back and see he what he does. That leaves Zilla, Aerozord, and me (kinda funny that I'm suspecting myself, but let's face it. I'm pretty damn suspicious). And since I'm not sure about Aerozord and I know that I'm not scum (can't prove it to you guys, but I'm not), I'm gonna

Vote: Zilla

[Fenris]

Demetrius (10)
Zilla
russianreversal
B_real
deathpigeon
Aerozord
Demetrius
Captain Combustible
Zavage
Nayno
Giever

Russianreversal (4)
Roy
Newb
Ape Boy
Axl

deathpigeon (1)
Moogle

Pink Bunny (1)
OctoberRaven

Zilla (1)
bananarama

20 to lynch, deadline sometime between tonight and tomorrow afternoon

In addition to this, these people have not posted this day.

Loki
Inbred Chocobo
Masked Jedi
secretskull
Zell
Rygar
Mr.Bookworm
DarthMauler
Ole' Dude
IHateMakingNames
Major Blood
Marn of Mayhem
h4x
Ryanderman
Michael Valentine
Skyshot

PMs will be kicked out to those people.

[P-Sleazy]

Originally Posted by Pink

We want a high death rate to take out the Cult Leaders so they won't grow massive.
We want the Mafias to murder each other while they try to gun town. They're just as likely to kill each other as us.

Now see, this is why I'm argueing against the high death rate. The longer a game goes on, the better the odds are that the town wins, because the town roles are the most useful in the long run when we know the most information (via PO's and such). We don't need people who are just gonna go randomly killing people shortening the game.

Originally Posted by Pink

Demetrius can't win. He ups the Death Rate on killing the Cult.

You're right, he can't win. But there's also no reason for him to help the town either. He's more inclined towards killing townies than ever before now that we know who he is and we're trying to abuse him for our benefit and not his.

Originally Posted by Demetrius

That and you know where my kill is going out of sheer spite tonight...

See!

Originally Posted by Pink

If possible, I'd like to lynch you today and have Zilla killed tonight. Or ideally Zilla and Demetrius killed tonight. It'll be good for both Town and Mafia. As long as one cult head is killed today we'll eliminate another Cult victim from the mix.

If both cult leaders live this lynch, we'll get two people converted and we won't know who the converts are.

which makes me wonder where Russian reversal is in all this cause you seemed so sure of yourself that me and him were in cahoots earlier. Why not lynch him and find out if he is indeed cult? Cause so far, I haven't hurt the town, but I've done my best to help it. And help it I did! (see: Demetrius and his role). How have you helped the town so far? Killed Ugainus only to have him kill the 2 mafiates who voted for him last?

As far as this whole cult thing goes, Only reason you think I'm cult is because of what newb brought up about 2 guys argueing at night and the word shadows. For all you know, that could have been a roleblock, hence the arguing, or it could have signified 2 people of the same mafia discussing who to kill only to come to indecision and not sending in thier kill or a vigilante and an SK who didn't act (all three would explain the guns and argueing. Not saying that any of these are true though.)

Originally Posted by Pink

If we lynch a cult leader now, we'll only have one convert, and we will know who Demetrius kills if not roleblocked. Having one known, dead person and a convert is much safer than having two converts we can't trace.

You already have 4 converts you can't trace. And when we don't know who any of the night killed people are (except for SK) doesn't mean we didn't already kill a Cult Leader (despite its unlikliness).

Seriously, stop trying to force the town into a position that benefits an unknown sized cult. The faster the death rate, the quicker/easier it is for the cult/mafia to control/manipulate the lynch. Demetrius is our best bet for today. Have a PO investigate me tonight, and if anything comes up, go ahead and kill me, but I doubt you'll have to cause I know I'm not scum. Just like Pink Bunny knows he's not scum. But does saying it prove anything? Nope. Not in the slightest.

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by bananarama

Now all that is left is DP, RR, Areozord, Zilla, and well... me. DP and Zilla have avoided posting very much and seeing how they're new to this game, I think they are trying to sit real quietly and hope that nobody suspects them. Also, all the people on this list have tried to kill Dem for really bad reasoning for so late in the game. I don't think DP is worth a lynch yet though. RR is gone for now and although we could lynch him so easily since he won't argue against it, I'd rather wait until he comes back and see he what he does. That leaves Zilla, Aerozord, and me (kinda funny that I'm suspecting myself, but let's face it. I'm pretty damn suspicious). And since I'm not sure about Aerozord and I know that I'm not scum (can't prove it to you guys, but I'm not), I'm gonna

Vote: Zilla

well reason for recent inactivity is I went from christmas, to sick, to new years prep work. Also last time I tried to voice myself in a mafia my inexperience got me lynched (I was a non-role townie I might add). So I'm for the most part keeping my mouth shut unless I have relavent input. Or to show I'm still active. I am also aware replying to this might once again put me in trouble through misunderstanding. But I thought even if it does an explaination should be given.