Did anyone ever wonder?

Ghaiel · 05-20-2009, 11:16 AM

I registered to post just this one post. I hope it incites discussion, but its more my opinion than anything else. First, I'd like to say that i played the original FFI/FFII/FFIV/FFVI on NES->SNES and I've followed this awesome story called 8-bit from about episode 9 or so. I've been lurking around here for awhile watching people "make predictions" and whatnot and I've been wondering:

Does anyone respect 8-bit as a work of art? Or are we all using it to further our own ego-centric, pompous forum-gameresque ids?

Think about it. This comic is really, really good. I haven't seen anyone else take anything to do with a Squaresoft game and rehash it into anything RESEMBLING good. Hell, even SQUARE-ENIX can't do anything good with their past games except re-release them on GBA/DS/DSi for 3 times the original amount of money they cost to play the first time. And here is Brian, turning a very memorable game with an extremely hardcore fanbase into a MORE than acceptable comic.

I mean...there are vast amounts of people on this forum that sit and make predictions update after update after update after update and critique the HELL out of Brian, call him names and such. Are we forgetting that he is the CREATOR of this storyline? This is HIS story, HIS almost decade long labor! There is nothing for you to do but READ IT. Critique when it's DONE. Just because you are vested in the storyline doesn't mean that you own part of it. Just because you are a big fan doesn't mean that you now get to superimpose your will onto the writing. This is not a group effort. I feel like in the past month, a large group of superegos have risen up to try to be able to say "OMGZ, I WAZ IN UR COMIC, PREDICTIN UR CHARACTER DEVELOPMENTZ" (yes, thats a reference). I personally very strongly feel that all these critics are really starting to affect the storyline, as someone is BOUND to "predict" whats going to happen based on PURE LUCK. Then Brian has to say to himself "well...that's spoiled now...what can I do to fix this?". Its the biggest problem with making a work public before its done. I mean, think about what would have happened if Shakespeare had made Macbeth pubic throughout its writing? There would be no incest, and no murder spree at the end. And then it wouldn't be my favorite Shakespearian play.

Then we have "filler" (maybe its not a filler, maybe it would've been like that ANYWAY and it only LOOKS like filler because there are a bunch of people who can't shut UP, and they are indirectly AFFECTING THE STORYLINE) comics like this last one and everyone is upset. I'm almost sure that update would not have been unsatisfactory to nearly as many people if everyone would just "shut the goddamn hell UP" and let Brian write it. Just let the man write the story, please! Let the artist/writer develop the characters without being harried by an endless parade of armchair webcomic wannabes. You want a better plot? Chrono Trigger doesn't have a comic yet, why don't some of you get together and go take one of the greatest games of all time and make something substantial about it. Brian already has. Please stop ruining it

waw · 05-20-2009, 11:34 AM

Without reading everything you've actually typed, I do see it as a piece of art. It has comedic gravitas, it's very well done.

But you have to understand, the heckling, all the smack that goes Brian's way on these forums in a way is good for him. It builds it up for people. It's a society built around his work. No publicity is bad publicity sort of thing.

If you feel the forums are 'ruining it' don't read them, it really is that simple.

Brian has said that nothing here has been based on what's said on the forums. Black Belt and the Dream seem to have been, however, and they are some of the high point of his jokes (jokes on audience). I really don't think Brian is letting anyone screw with the integrity of his work.

I do think it's art.

Meister · 05-20-2009, 11:36 AM

I wish I could make this entire post my signature. Seriously. I'm trying to pick one sentence but it means not picking five others that are equally true.

Okay one little thing I wouldn't pick is the one about Brian having to change things someone guessed, because I'm reasonably sure that doesn't happen. But the entire thing about people coming here primarily to guess the next few events and analyze their own impact on the comic? Yeah, definitely seeing that happen here. Not with everyone obviously, most likely not even with the majority of fans, but there is a definite tendency and it's pretty annoying.

If nothing else, this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kurosen

I thought about it, but I felt the whining over "I WAITED FOR THAT" wouldn't have been worth it.

should make people think.

EDIT:

Quote:

It builds it up for people. It's a society built around his work.

With that comes the danger that the society, or the talk about the thing, becomes more important to itself than the actual thing. Are people coming here to talk about 8BT or to hear themselves talk about 8BT?

tacticslion · 05-20-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ghaiel

A long, but well-thought out idea in an effort to protect Brian as an artist and the dignity of his work.

I actually appreciate that you did this, however I am compelled to point out (much as it has been to me) that Brian doesn't do things just for the sake of spoiling someone else's ideas. He's said as much on the boards. Also, as far as coming up with theories and ideas, I think most do so because its fun.

Much as you like MacBeth, you probably enjoy discussing MacBeth with others. Was Shakespear copping out when MacBeth wasn't killed by a woman but by a C-sectioned man? Was MacBeth pure in his early motivations or was he evil from the beginning? What was Shakespear's views on the Scottish and English conflicts of the past, and how did those affect this work? Did he really care for women's rights? The first time you read MacBeth, if you enjoyed it then, you probably would wonder: how does it end? You might talk to others about said ending, and maybe even guess: does MacBeth get away with it? Does a women kill him? What?

My point is: speculation and theorizing is fun. In 8-Bit's case, there is an opportunity for people to guess about the end of the comic before it comes, all talking together about it and sharing their ideas before the end is displayed to the world.

Brian doesn't change his answer based on what other people say. He doesn't rewrite the script just to pander to us, and that's a (relatively) well-known quote from him. With that in mind, theories can abound freely and fully with no fear of inappropriately swaying him from the story he intended to write all along.

Many of the complaints you'll see here are very sarcastic: few people are really mean-spirited about Clevinger's work. Most of those who are are denounced by the rest of us that are actually frequently on the boards and posting (I include myself only because I have been very active recently). Mostly, however, it's all in fun. In fact Fifthfiend is one of Brian's most frequent 'critics' - and he's a moderator of the forum! But because it's all in fun, Brian jokes back. When people actually get down on Brian, Fifth is there to defend him.

So, yeah. I understand your point, and defending Brian as an author is a good thing. It's true, 8-Bit is a work of art - much like Atomic Robo, and Nuklear Age, or any other work of fiction (Warbot in accounting... well, everyone's gotta have one failure

). I think most people actually understand that - and admire Clevinger for his work! We just do it with a healthy dose of mild sarcasm and chicanery. Welcome to the NPF forums!

Edit: wow, I totally got ninja'd twice!
Meister: I think people talk about it for both reasons. It's (personally) edifying when someone speaks to you about something you enjoy and you get to speak back. However the reason both people are there talking about something, gaining that personal edification, is that the thing itself that they like is what they are talking about. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. Much like in marraige. If sex, conversation, and time were only good for one spouse, then the other would most likely lose interest, eventually. Both need to come together - to edify eachother as individuals and as a society - to make the marraige work. Fandom - which 8-Bit has - is the same way. If everyone just looked at 8-Bit, then went through the motions of saying "8-Bit is cool, and here's why", but not actually getting anything out of doing so themselves, then they would lose interest, and thus the fan would fall away. So, yeah, there's pleasure gotten out of debate and talking. But not purely from yourself talking, but from interacting as a society. It's both, and it builds the fandom of the work itself.