Anti-Tobacco Lobby Stretching the Truth? - Page 4

Seil · 04-19-2007, 02:38 AM

I've been skimming, and without reading the whole thread, I wanna say this:

I started smoking not because of my friends (they actively try to get me to quit) or peer pressure or anything like that. I started at a really low point in my life - I was really, really depressed. My brother had been dragged home by the cops a few times - his claim to fame was drugs 'n booze. I didn't want to be him.

I picked up a cigarette because it was a stress reliever. It didn't start like that - it was a chance to go outside, sit down, and think. I realized that life wasn't all that bad, and I've been smoking since - I find it nice to just go outside, sit down, and distance yourself from everyone.

That being said, the Health Care system in Canada - not to mention the Unitied States is soon going to reach critical mass. The baby boom has ended, and too old too support themselves, they're put in homes and hospitals to recieve proper care.

It's because of compassion that humans don't leave their dead where they fall. We don't want to see our loved ones die, so we extend their time as much as we can - and it's that same humanitarian compassion that we don't ban smoking. We respect that everyone should have their own choice, and leave it at that. We trust each other enough to believe that we all know what we're doing.

I'd perfer to smoke rather than not. It might be because I'm addicted, it might be for other reasons - but I'd rather have the choice to smoke instead of not - Chicago had prohibition once, and that spawned the biggest illegal alcohol trade in history. What it all comes down to is letting people pick their poison.

http://fallencomic.com/pages/part3/46-p3.htm

Fifthfiend · 04-19-2007, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Poetisch

I picked up a cigarette because it was a stress reliever. It didn't start like that - it was a chance to go outside, sit down, and think. I realized that life wasn't all that bad, and I've been smoking since - I find it nice to just go outside, sit down, and distance yourself from everyone.

That's actually a really big part of the appeal, yeah. A big part of quitting for me was teaching myself to go outside, close my eyes and chill the fuck out for five minutes every so often without having to have a cigarette in my hands.

Quote:

I'd perfer to smoke rather than not. It might be because I'm addicted, it might be for other reasons - but I'd rather have the choice to smoke instead of not - Chicago had prohibition once, and that spawned the biggest illegal alcohol trade in history.

Yeah, ultimately I come down against outright bans on account of stuff like this. The social costs of drug use are nothing compared to the social costs of trying to ban drug use, as measured in crime and corruption and racial stratifications and ultimately the exacerbation of all the problems caused when the drug was still legal. Prohibition is like that cartoon where Daffy Duck or whoever is trying to kill a fly with a bazooka - he ends up blowing up his entire fucking house and still never goddamn kills the fly.

Mirai Gen · 04-19-2007, 03:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fifthfiend

That's actually a really big part of the appeal, yeah. A big part of quitting for me was teaching myself to go outside, close my eyes and chill the fuck out for five minutes every so often without having to have a cigarette in my hands.

That's part of the thing that amazes me working where I do now. I'm a clerk in a building that's a restaurant, store, and bar all at the same time.

The waiters/waitresses go outside to smoke because it gives them a few moments to process their thoughts and let them relax for a second.

Nevermind the fact that cigarette prices have gone so astronomically fucking high as of late (And I'd know, I'm the one peddling them out), they could save themselves six bucks every few days if they just sucked on a goddamn stick of gum or something.

If you don't quit for the lung cancer, then just think about all the money it's costing you.

I still can't figure that out. Of course, I know I'm extremely susceptible to addiction, so it's probably for the best that I remain clueless. Though I hear alot of it has to do with the actual use of your hands while idling. I'd rather bust out my DS and get a few rounds of Puzzle Quest in. In a five-minute smoke break, that's like a full battle right there.

Also: Are we going off topic much? It's pretty nice to actually talk about smoking and quitters and cause and effects and all that, but if we should get back on track, let me know.

Tendronai · 04-19-2007, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fifthfiend

Prohibition is like that cartoon where Daffy Duck or whoever is trying to kill a fly with a bazooka - he ends up blowing up his entire fucking house and still never goddamn kills the fly.

I don't remember that one, but it's a great analogy.

I don't think that we're going too off-topic - how people justify smoking to themselves and why they don't quit is why the anti-tobacco lobby has had to stretch themselves so far as it is. At this point, though, they should just call it a day. They're just starting to make stupid lies and ineffectual campaigns which anyone can poke holes through.

The fact of the matter is, people will do what they want, regardless of whatever laws there are or what the risks are. If we could all just accept that and move on, then we would probably do much better. I mean, how many people start smoking or doing drugs just to 'rebel'? After a while, they get addicted to it, but initially they could be doing it just to reaffirm their identity as an individual and not merely a part of society. Legalizing everything wouldn't exactly cut down on usage, but it would allow the government to make quite a bit of extra revenue, and the regularization of such substances would make it less likely for people to overdose. Not to mention the fact that the criminal element which thrives off of this would have to get real jobs. They could become government sanctioned officials, if nothing else. They would have great experience on their resume.

POS Industries · 04-19-2007, 02:25 PM

Indeed. A strong campaign on the health risks of smoking is all you can honestly do. Things really started to go downhill for the anti-smoking lobby when they decided they needed to villainize the tobacco companies. They stopped recognizing that smoking was a personal choice made by the individual and tried to convince everyone that people smoke because Phillip-Morris jedi mind-tricked them into doing it with their amazing evil.

It occurred to me that they may have been taking a page out of the government's anti-drug campaign. Anyone remember the "smoking pot supports terrorism" commercial?

Oh, and incidentally....

Quote:

Originally Posted by fifthfiend

Prohibition is like that cartoon where Daffy Duck or whoever is trying to kill a fly with a bazooka - he ends up blowing up his entire fucking house and still never goddamn kills the fly.

I believe that may have been Darkwing Duck, actually. I know they at least used the same bit.

Mirai Gen · 04-19-2007, 04:43 PM

So did Beavis and Butthead, but that's neither here nor there.

Quote:

Things really started to go downhill for the anti-smoking lobby when they decided they needed to villainize the tobacco companies.

It's kind of tough to villainize a company like Philip-Morris. That's kind of like putting horns on Darth Vader.

I do agree though.

Philip-Morris has probably lied to increase tobacco sales before, and I find it extremely hilarious that now they have a separate branch dedicated to lying to people by showing the first lies and exaggerating them.

Magus · 04-21-2007, 01:50 AM

Anti-tobacco lobbies always stretch the truth, it's great to mention the horrible, horrible effects cigarrettes have on your lungs, because anyone who's smart only needs that to not start using the things (thereby weeding the stupid out of our society), but stuff like "convenience stores have chewing tobacco in clear glass cases at waist level so kids can see it!" is just unprovable (plus they don't do that anymore, I don't think, as I never encountered it).

Those Truth bastards have annoyed me since day one, anyway, though. I'll take Bitterman's stance on that any day of the week. I was glad when MAD finally got around to putting them down a peg. "Where the hell do you hippie bastards get off telling a hard-working man like me what I can and cannot do with my body?!" Obviously it's funny because Bitterman is an unemployed loser who lives on his family's couch, but he's everyone's hero.

bass_virus · 04-23-2007, 01:48 PM

What I hate is how the government keeps upping the price of tobacco thinking that it will make people stop buying them. They are wrong, smokers aren't going to quit smoking, they are just going to stop buying other things, and the last thing we need in this country is thousands of smokers being rushed to the hospital with scurvy because they quit buying fruit.

What bugs me even more than anti-smoking groups are those jackasses who have smoked like a chimney for years, develop cancer, and then join the crusade against the tobacco companies. That is like me trying to sue Dell computers because I have carpaltunnel syndrom.

And you know it's actually been proven that those stupid anti-smoking campaigns actually make teens want to smoke more.

Nique · 04-23-2007, 03:10 PM

Quote:

And you know it's actually been proven that those stupid anti-smoking campaigns actually make teens want to smoke more.

Until you come up with a trustworthy source on that, I'm calling shenanigans.

Tyrazial · 04-23-2007, 03:16 PM

My grandfather put it best in my opinion.

"Sure smoking might give me cancer and kill me 10 years before I'm naturally supposed to die. But have you seen those people that live passed 100? They -can't- possibly be happy. Why spend those 10 years asking God to let me die when I can smoke now and answer my prayers before they're spoken?"

Sadly he did die from it, but he was happy up until the day he did.

04-21-2007, 01:50 AM	#37
Magus Archer and Armstrong vs. the World Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pennsylvania Posts: 7,164	Anti-tobacco lobbies always stretch the truth, it's great to mention the horrible, horrible effects cigarrettes have on your lungs, because anyone who's smart only needs that to not start using the things (thereby weeding the stupid out of our society), but stuff like "convenience stores have chewing tobacco in clear glass cases at waist level so kids can see it!" is just unprovable (plus they don't do that anymore, I don't think, as I never encountered it). Those Truth bastards have annoyed me since day one, anyway, though. I'll take Bitterman's stance on that any day of the week. I was glad when MAD finally got around to putting them down a peg. "Where the hell do you hippie bastards get off telling a hard-working man like me what I can and cannot do with my body?!" Obviously it's funny because Bitterman is an unemployed loser who lives on his family's couch, but he's everyone's hero. __________________ The Valiant Review

04-23-2007, 01:48 PM	#38
bass_virus Second gunman on the grassy knoll Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pissant town in a state cold enough to freeze hell over Posts: 490	What I hate is how the government keeps upping the price of tobacco thinking that it will make people stop buying them. They are wrong, smokers aren't going to quit smoking, they are just going to stop buying other things, and the last thing we need in this country is thousands of smokers being rushed to the hospital with scurvy because they quit buying fruit. What bugs me even more than anti-smoking groups are those jackasses who have smoked like a chimney for years, develop cancer, and then join the crusade against the tobacco companies. That is like me trying to sue Dell computers because I have carpaltunnel syndrom. And you know it's actually been proven that those stupid anti-smoking campaigns actually make teens want to smoke more. __________________ The Dusk of Man Four Gods wait on the windowsill Where once eight Gods did war and will And if the Gods themselves may die What does that say for you and I?

04-19-2007, 02:38 AM	#31
Seil Super stressed! Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: British Columbia Posts: 8,081	I've been skimming, and without reading the whole thread, I wanna say this: I started smoking not because of my friends (they actively try to get me to quit) or peer pressure or anything like that. I started at a really low point in my life - I was really, really depressed. My brother had been dragged home by the cops a few times - his claim to fame was drugs 'n booze. I didn't want to be him. I picked up a cigarette because it was a stress reliever. It didn't start like that - it was a chance to go outside, sit down, and think. I realized that life wasn't all that bad, and I've been smoking since - I find it nice to just go outside, sit down, and distance yourself from everyone. That being said, the Health Care system in Canada - not to mention the Unitied States is soon going to reach critical mass. The baby boom has ended, and too old too support themselves, they're put in homes and hospitals to recieve proper care. It's because of compassion that humans don't leave their dead where they fall. We don't want to see our loved ones die, so we extend their time as much as we can - and it's that same humanitarian compassion that we don't ban smoking. We respect that everyone should have their own choice, and leave it at that. We trust each other enough to believe that we all know what we're doing. I'd perfer to smoke rather than not. It might be because I'm addicted, it might be for other reasons - but I'd rather have the choice to smoke instead of not - Chicago had prohibition once, and that spawned the biggest illegal alcohol trade in history. What it all comes down to is letting people pick their poison. http://fallencomic.com/pages/part3/46-p3.htm

04-23-2007, 03:16 PM	#40
Tyrazial Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: I often have to ask that myself Posts: 703	My grandfather put it best in my opinion. "Sure smoking might give me cancer and kill me 10 years before I'm naturally supposed to die. But have you seen those people that live passed 100? They -can't- possibly be happy. Why spend those 10 years asking God to let me die when I can smoke now and answer my prayers before they're spoken?" Sadly he did die from it, but he was happy up until the day he did.