Homesuck: Vriska Rising

[stefan]

I have to wonder just how much denial is being thrown around by these people, or if they legitimately missed all of the plush puppet ass in earlier acts

this wasn't exactly some earth shattering secret Hussie was keeping under wraps

[Solid Snake]

Oh man can I offer you guys some free advice
Never post in MSPA forums
Ever

[Arcanum]

I have a rule that has served me well in my years of traveling the internet: Never go to the official forums of anything.

The exception being NPF, of course.

[Art of Hilt]

Dirk is finally canonically and unambiguously gay or bisexual but definitely attracted to dudes either way

Yes.

Yes.

It feels good to be vindicated. As Solid Snake listed there were a pretty crazy number of people who somehow managed to try and twist every update to Dirk being straight in all the dumbest ways despite the opposite being blatantly true.

But oh no he's going to hit on Jake and Jake already knows Dirk has a crush on him and he's prepared to turn him down and Dirk doesn't even know oh noo

Why must there be so much heartbreak in one comic

[Solid Snake]

Me on MSPA: "There are an exceptional number of reasons why politicians will ignore or downplay objective truths in order to instead procure beneficial compromises or advance their superior policies. For example, even if it was definitively scientifically proven by conservatives that homosexuals could be converted to heterosexuality through external environmental pressure alone, I would fight against this and even downplay legitimate scientific reports if necessary in order to ensure that I protected my constituents. Politicians are hired by their people to serve their people, not act as scientists."

MSPA READERS: "You are a terrible person."

ME: "This happens in politics all the time! As an example, if I were a Democrat in Congress and I even objectively believed that a Republican policy was objectively correct or more beneficial to the nation, if I was in a position where I'd advance my constituents' positions further by agreeing with my Democratic colleagues on one minor issue in order to receive reciprocal benefits fighting greater causes down the road, that's a compromise every politician makes. In the end we serve the people, not 'the truth.' Our goal is to reorganize society as broadly and effectively as we can to follow the principles we endear, and we can't let the 'truth' on any one issue hold us hostage."

MSPA READER: "So what you're saying is in 1860 you'd totally support your fellow Democrats in opposing slavery."

...

...

....what the fuck kind of Civil War version of Godwin's Law is that
For one thing I'd have been a Republican before the realignment in the 1960s
For another thing did he even read what I said
I'm pretty sure that falls into the "more important things you don't compromise on" camp of beliefs.
This is like attempting to discuss things with three year olds.
It's like they don't understand how politics works

POLITICS IS NOT LIKE THE HARD SCIENCES, Christ
but nnooooo, let's debate the law school student attending a great law school on this

[BitVyper]

3: Infuriated that Dirk being gay means that Bro is also gay (and therefore searching for excuses as to why environmental factors may lead two men with identical genetic structures to different sexual orientations, because for some reason Bro must have had a girlfriend or some shit; no one THAT badass could possibly be gay)

Wait, what? Like yeah sure, Bro was almost definitely gay too - even though he was basically ambiguous, that's a statement we can make pretty confidently just based on the imagery associated with both Bro and Dirk. However, there may or may not be any genetic involvement at all, and we're definitely not in a place research-wise to start saying that their sexuality follows from their genetic structure. In fact, as I recall, there've been studies done on twins that suggest exactly the opposite. That doesn't mean there definitely isn't genetic involvement, but it's definitely not as simple as saying that someone can just be genetically homosexual.

Genetics doesn't make for evidence that Bro was gay. To be honest, I don't really see why you'd need any either. I mean, I've figured he was gay since like, before we'd ever even seen him. It's really not being hidden very hard.

[Solid Snake]

Well then I'm curious, Bit. If not genetics, what defines a person's sexuality?
(Here's hoping you don't say "environmental factors.")

[A Zarkin' Frood]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Oh man can I offer you guys some free advice
Never post in MSPA forums
Ever

Applies to most fandoms especially if they get big enough. There's a reason I only hang out here as opposed to MSPA forums, where I've been, trust me. The only other webcomic community besides NPF that seemed decent was Whitechapel forums.

[Professor Smarmiarty]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Well then I'm curious, Bit. If not genetics, what defines a person's sexuality?
(Here's hoping you don't say "environmental factors.")

It pretty much is environmental factors. But I don't think you understand what that means. Environmental factors covers a whole shit load of things- including development in the womb an dmost importantly the first few years of life. It is also pretty random, brain connections with the same inputs can develop in different ways.
Environmental factors also influence how your genes unfold and interact. Saying something happens genetically is generlaly pretty meaningless. Genes and environment interact massively, even if you had say an "intelligence gene" it wouldn't increase you intelligence unless it was present with the correct other genes, they all unfolded in the right way and you had th ecorrect stimullus to get it working properly. And there isn't such a thing.
But what we mean when we say there is no "gay gene" is that there is no gene that can be traced to it, identical twins who have the same genes can be both gay and straight which pretty much kiboshes that theory.
Sexuality is likely determined by a myriad of factors that control the massive forming of neuronal connections in babies and childrens in the first few years after birth. This is when they form the differences between themselves and others and form connections between specific identities of people and how they relate to not themselves- the small and big Other as it were. This is basically all environmental.
Nobody has found a gene for sexuality and it wouldn't make sense as something controlled by a gene. Genes code for actual physical change which sexuality is not. Sexuality is a complex relationship between yoruself and others which occurs in the dense mass of connections in the brain. If sexuality was coded for by genes we would be able to see physical differences between homosexuals and heterosexuals either in ourself or in animals that have homsexual pairs- which we never have. If sexuality was coded for by genes it would be fairly binary, either you are heterosexual or homosexual with the odd deviant due to mutations but this does not at all describe human sexuality. If homosexuality was genetic it would be traceable in lineages and hereditary. It's not, it occurs pretty much at random (once you account for society eand family pressures which would trend a child gay or straight).
And if it was genetic how would that work? One (or maybe a cluster ) of genes controlling sexuality? I don't understand how this would work physically. Sexual arousal uses the same pathways in heterosexual people as homosexual people. It releases the same trasnmitters in the same part of the brain. And the triggers are external stimulae, not internal stimulae, so that can't be the explanation. In fact the entire point of the development process of a young baby is to adapt its brain (which can respond to internal stimulae fine) to respond to external stimulae- EXACTLY the differene between the two orientations is their reaction to external stimulae.
Unless you can provide mechanistically how this works, and how your genes are going to rewrite the entire sexual reproduction pathway of the brain without leaving a crippled mess it baffles me how this can be genetic.

[BitVyper]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

Well then I'm curious, Bit. If not genetics, what defines a person's sexuality?
(Here's hoping you don't say "environmental factors.")

There are a lot of possible factors, and I really have no desire to get involved in a big thing about it except to say that actual genetic structure on the individual is probably not a major one. Environmental factors would likely be relegated to the first few years of life - the critical period (this is where I would put my money on a big part of the influence being). Fetal development and hormones are probably involved as well (there's definitely people who will say this is a big factor for the transgendered). The exact reasons probably differ from person to person as well - one thing we can say with certainty is that there's not just some binary switch that determines you as either one or the other. That kind of thing doesn't come close to accounting for the range of sexual orientation. I think this is the problem with a lot of the popular thought regarding homosexuality, because people tend to look at it as being one way or another when we know that's really not true. Sexuality isn't something where a light gets turned on and bam, you're a sexual creature - it develops. Even if you are absolutely straight or 100% gay, your sexuality still evolves - get someone who's sixty (and open minded) talking about sex, and start asking them how it was different when they were eighteen.

It's overly simplistic to approach sexual orientation as if it's just something that gets stuck to you at some arbitrary point. It's also pretty arbitrary to define sexual orientation based purely on whether someone prefers men or women. Neither sex or gender is binary, and the two can be completely different things, so how can you possibly assign meaningful sexual definitions to people based purely on whether they fuck "men" or "women?" There are probably various factors acting on your sexuality throughout your entire life. Just like everything else.

And it's not like you just are or become of one particular sexuality. You've got a good chunk of years to live before the matter comes up at all. There are early periods and events (some of which I mentioned) that probably have a very big influence on where you'll end up in a broad sense, but they don't just hardcode a sexual identity into you. Sexual identity is like everything else - you build it. And that's not calling it a "choice," because doing that would have the same problems I've already discussed. It's just not as easy to label as popular culture wants it to be.

Edit: Smarty explained the biology of it really well.