Homesuck: Vriska Rising

[Bum Bill Bee]

I'm pretty sure that vague plans for creating a new Earth had been mentioned earlier. ie, right after the retcon and right before Vriska was making plans for everyone.

[Solid Snake]

I guess I just don't understand...anything else that happened, then. It's like LOST's finale in an eerie sense...it answers a couple important questions I had, neglects the others and purposely chooses to be vague about resolving just about everything else for some esoteric reason.

Also, the 'heroes solve the conundrum presented by the villains' unwinnable scenario once and for all' part was...very, very short. I wish Andrew divided his time a bit better so we had more details near the end and less of the constant repetition of the heroes getting nowhere through retcons and destroyed universes and all that jazz earlier on.

I kind of figured in a relational storyline like this would've ended with a lengthy Pesterchum session? I care about the characters at this point more than the rules and mechanics of the Homestuck game (which I hold Andrew accountable for if only because that's where he put so much of his own emphasis on developing as the story progressed) so I am disappointed that I didn't actually hear people like Karkat and John and Roxy proffer their thoughts on everything that happened. I know the old adage is "Show, don't tell," but Andrew, you've given the characters such lovely moments of 'dialogue' that the chat sessions practically constitutes your way of showing things to us...why give that up now?

And, like...how did Vriska being back actually change anything? She couldn't have done everything she ended up doing in this flash as a ghost, even though she was part of the ghost army? Where was Terezi? Did she even make the jump to the new world or did I completely miss her? Did the door John open lead to the new universe, and therefore Caliborn's confrontation with the heroes happen in a failed timeline...or did the door John open lead to fighting Caliborn / English, and the Beta Kids showed up and were 'unlocked' by Vriska to destroy (mortal) Lord English and...I dunno, I've heard these two completely different theories attempting to even explain what we actually saw, there.

What the heck happens to Gamzee, anyway? And does Aradia, who once declared an intention to live through it all, purposefully choose death as opposed to rendezvousing with her friends to go to the other world?!? Was there any purpose to anything she was doing when she was 'alive?'

Are Dave and Karkat a couple? Are Dave and Jade a couple? I know what you're saying: They're just teenagers, Snake! That's not what the story is about!!! But that is what the story was about, because Andrew dedicated a goddamn ludicrous amount of time to it. If you never played shipping up to the extent you did, Andrew, we'd all agree that the kids were just kids and we'd view it as irrelevant, as we did in most of the first few acts of the story. But you can't pull a LOST and invest us in an exorbitant amount of ~*emotions*~ over all these nooks and crannies and then refuse to provide any closure. That's what LOST did. That's why LOST aggravated so many people.
Give me a goddamn "ten years in the future" spiel if you must so you can justify them being old enough to have paired off, just give me some finality.

How does the troll race recover, anyway? Does the troll race recover? If the troll race does recover, will it still be as violent as it was in Hivebent or will a new troll society evolve? Will the kids and trolls become mythological gods and goddesses to the carapace residents of that world, or do they have another role to play there? How is this even a goddamn 'creation myth' if the roles of the characters within their new creation isn't even adequately explored? Are the kids still effectively immortal, or do the rules change after the game? Were their clocks destroyed or do they still exist out there? Do they age normally or do they stop aging at a certain point? If they keep aging, will they eventually force themselves to die Just or Heroic deaths to escape the prison of living?

Do the kids have children? If so, how do humans subsequently reproduce or...continue to exist? There'd be an insufficient human population there even if no one was related to repopulate humanity. So is humanity just doomed? Do the carapaces effectively replace humans as the dominant species? Or is this going to be a world full of troll descendants?

What was the whole purpose of the game, anyway? Who created it, who advertised for it, how did it come to existence, why was it timed to impact the kids at the moments of their lives that it did? Do the kids and trolls expect Homestuck to occur again in the new world they've created, or will the cycle now stop with Lord English out of the equation?

Why did Lord English call himself Lord English?

Is Roxy even dating John, Andrew? IS SHE EVEN INTERESTED IN JOHN?!?

Man ironies of ironies, I think Andrew ultimately pulled his final "Eff you, Snake" number not with anything involving Vriska whatsoever, but rather by deceiving me into the expectation of a lengthy post-flash video epilogue exploring all this. Andrew, you're supposed to be a goddamn master of over-explaining the shit out of everything! And don't give me "It'll come in three years," shit, I am not waiting more years on end for resolution when a few Pesterchum sessions and some very basic images could resolve most of this.

[Bum Bill Bee]

Yyyyyeah, looks like you're just overthinking all that.


Me, I'm just thinking: Vriska gets the superweapon to make Lord English go kablewy, the Sburbs game does its You're Winner, and everybody lives happily ever after on new earth (even if everyone didn't get shown) and whatever relationships they do is left totally up to the reader, the end.

[Solid Snake]

The 'Superweapon' is in the form of that 'prison' the four Beta kids were trapped in by Caliborn during that fight sequence from that flash that I barely even remember now. I'm just wondering whether it releases the four 'real' Beta kids after English or if it's doomed failed-timeline versions of them.

But I hate what you've just described, namely the phenomenon in fictional endings where, after meticulously describing everything that's happened up until the ending, the author is then just like: "HOW IT ENDS IS UP TO YOUR IMAGINATIONZ." That's the kind of ending that makes me just think that the author is really fuckin' lazy and has no intention to commit to a vision or a theme to explain where it was all headed. Even if I then headcanon'd my own 'imaginary' ending, the ending would have no canonical merit.

I mean, if it was all leading up to an ending that's not even really an 'ending' insofar as it answers literally nothing, what was even the point? I could have just typed out "They all lived happily ever after, THE END" and saved Andrew a heck of lot of time with his endgame flashes.

[Bum Bill Bee]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

The 'Superweapon' is in the form of that 'prison' the four Beta kids were trapped in by Caliborn during that fight sequence from that flash that I barely even remember now. I'm just wondering whether it releases the four 'real' Beta kids after English or if it's doomed failed-timeline versions of them.

Ah yeah, that Claymation video Caliborn made, me, I'm thinking that the trapped failed- timeline Beta kids had been metabolized to become the energy of the weapon....so using it just doomed them.


I'm okay with ambiguous endings now and then *cough*Jormungand*cough* but I guess we'll just wait and see if Huss does an Epilouge.

[rpgdemon]

Is an epilouge related to the classic sneaky-stabby RPG class the rouge?

[Bum Bill Bee]

okay, some random thoughts:

Im glad that they didn't do any pesterchum chats at all in the very last bits, I think it helped make it beautiful and artsy. But then that would make it necessary to show a lot more than he did. I'm hoping the kernel sprites survived at the end, but maybe thats not how suburbs works? Or maybe it is, since we saw Derse and Prospit people on new earth.

I wonder why the defeat of Lord English was treated as such a formality at this point, and why no one seemed to care where Vriska was, not even John or Terezi? I wonder if the deaths of Vriska, Aradia and the troll ghost army were somehow required for Lord English's destruction? I wonder if Vriska's desire to beat the strongest boss outweighed her desire to survive at the end? I wonder why Lord English was just doing a lot of standing around? I wonder where Sollux is, he just randomly dropped out of focus again.

I still wonder why the BecNoir Jack got to survive but not Spades Slick? I wonder why Slick was sometimes attacking Dave, Dirk and Terezi, except they got in his way? I wonder if the glimpses of Caliborn somehow indicate that he changed his masterplan so he won't get beat? Probably not.

I would think that Terezi got to be on new earth with everyone else, Dave and Karkat are 100% totally a couple. I think Jade has just turned asexual (has she ever been shippable with anyone but Dave?), and a John x Roxy relationship might be sorta interesting....it would've made the fight with Condy a double date at least.


So fine, yeah Snake, I do think and ponder about stuff, but I'm satisfied enough with wha twe got.


Now to wait and see how Dr Mcninja and Order of the Stick wrap up...

[rpgdemon]

You don't "turn" asexual, anymore than you "turn" gay.

[Arcanum]

Originally Posted by Solid Snake

And, like...how did Vriska being back actually change anything? She couldn't have done everything she ended up doing in this flash as a ghost, even though she was part of the ghost army?

Bringing Vriska back is mainly to stop things from fucking up and ending up with everyone dead at the hands of the Condesce and Gamzee. Terezi getting her sight back, Rose spiraling into alcoholism, and all the other stuff that happened that led to that outcome was changed by bringing Vriska back. That put everyone in a position where they could actually fight the final battle and have a chance of winning (instead of dying horribly like we saw before John got retcon powers).

Did the door John open lead to the new universe, and therefore Caliborn's confrontation with the heroes happen in a failed timeline...or did the door John open lead to fighting Caliborn / English, and the Beta Kids showed up and were 'unlocked' by Vriska to destroy (mortal) Lord English and...I dunno, I've heard these two completely different theories attempting to even explain what we actually saw, there.

The door John opens leads to their new universe. All those shots of them being happy and playing around and can town being a thing seemed to be flash-forwards. At least that's my interpretation of it (and I agree with you that leaving this story up to the reader's interpretation is dumb as hell).

The kids that showed up to fight Caliborn had to be either from a doomed timeline, or a retcon timeline. It's really dumb that we never saw how they ended up there.

What the heck happens to Gamzee, anyway?

He was on the planet that got sucked into the blackhole created when LE Jack's head exploded. This is most likely how he ends up on Caliborn's planet. (I can't take credit for that one, saw someone on reddit say that in response to that exact question).

Are Dave and Karkat a couple? Are Dave and Jade a couple? I know what you're saying: They're just teenagers, Snake! That's not what the story is about!!! But that is what the story was about, because Andrew dedicated a goddamn ludicrous amount of time to it. If you never played shipping up to the extent you did, Andrew, we'd all agree that the kids were just kids and we'd view it as irrelevant, as we did in most of the first few acts of the story. But you can't pull a LOST and invest us in an exorbitant amount of ~*emotions*~ over all these nooks and crannies and then refuse to provide any closure. That's what LOST did. That's why LOST aggravated so many people.
Give me a goddamn "ten years in the future" spiel if you must so you can justify them being old enough to have paired off, just give me some finality.

Yeah this "left up to the reader" stuff can work for some things, but definitely not for homestuck. I think Hussie was trying to please everyone, leaving ships open to interpretation and to be argued over. But in the end everyone is upset because we wanted actual closure.

How does the troll race recover, anyway? Does the troll race recover?

I mean, they have the egg. Isn't that's all that's needed? Get a mother grub, throw in some troll slurry, boom new trolls. Even if they lost the egg, couldn't Roxy just void-magic up a new one?

If the troll race does recover, will it still be as violent as it was in Hivebent or will a new troll society evolve?

They were violent because of their caste/hierarchy system and tyrannical empresses hellbent on conquering everything, as a direct result of the previous troll timeline initiating a Scratch so that SBURB could be won by the new timeline. If I recall the previous trolls weren't as hyper violent, and that's why they couldn't win? So raise some trolls without that hyperviolent conquest-focused attitude and they will be just fine.

Will the kids and trolls become mythological gods and goddesses to the carapace residents of that world, or do they have another role to play there? How is this even a goddamn 'creation myth' if the roles of the characters within their new creation isn't even adequately explored? Are the kids still effectively immortal, or do the rules change after the game? Were their clocks destroyed or do they still exist out there? Do they age normally or do they stop aging at a certain point? If they keep aging, will they eventually force themselves to die Just or Heroic deaths to escape the prison of living?

Do the kids have children? If so, how do humans subsequently reproduce or...continue to exist? There'd be an insufficient human population there even if no one was related to repopulate humanity. So is humanity just doomed? Do the carapaces effectively replace humans as the dominant species? Or is this going to be a world full of troll descendants?

Yeah I've got nothing for these and they are all valid questions that should've been answered. I fully expect none of them to be answered in the epilogue that we'll get three years from now.

One thing I will point out, the door John opened doesn't lead to their new world, it leads to a new universe. That new earth was just an old earth Jade had shrunk down for them to live in in the new universe. So while they might be having fun times goofing off with carapace creatures on that world, there could be countless other lifeforms in their universe. Which brings me to this:

What was the whole purpose of the game, anyway? Who created it, who advertised for it, how did it come to existence, why was it timed to impact the kids at the moments of their lives that it did? Do the kids and trolls expect Homestuck to occur again in the new world they've created, or will the cycle now stop with Lord English out of the equation?

The point of SBURB is to create new Universes, since every universe is technically a Bilious Slick created by a sburb session. It came into existent through weird time paradox stuff. Frog ruins from a SBURB session gets sent to a world via meteors, someone on that world in the past examines those ruins and discovers the hieroglyphs can be turned into code, which creates SBURB. People on that planet play SBURB creating numerous doomed sessions and potentially the one prime session that was the result of those frog ruins being sent into the past in the first place.

It is entirely possible another SBURB could happen, but who knows if it will happen to their world, or one of the countless worlds in their new universe.

Why did Lord English call himself Lord English?

Because he's a Lord of Time and he was infatuated with Jake English so he named himself after Jake but kept his title. This was covered some time in Act 6.

[Bum Bill Bee]

But did anyone else see the Volume 10 music album come out?

I actually didn't think it was that good. Lots of remixes (which is something that Andrew's been doing since the beginning. Seriously, look at Vol 1-4), a few like Beatup grated my ears, nothing really stood out as being good.

But what did the rest of you think of it? You think this is kinda gonna set us up for the supposedly upcoming epilogue video thats supposed to explain things that Act 7 didn't?