Homesuck: Vriska Rising - Page 322

BitVyper · 12-12-2010, 07:37 PM

Yay Vriska!

mauve · 12-12-2010, 07:40 PM

All in favor of Tavros finally snapping, and in a display of glorious poetic justice, kicking the everloving shit out of Vriska, say aye.

I for one would totally support this idea.

Flarecobra · 12-12-2010, 07:50 PM

Damnit Vriska.

Krylo · 12-12-2010, 07:55 PM

Vriska: Having a better grasp on interdimensional temporal mechanics than the average forum goer since 2010.

Bard The 5th LW · 12-12-2010, 08:02 PM

But if she didn't do it then it never would have happened for her to make it happen anyways in the first place.

And 'it would happen anyways' is becoming a really sour justification.

Krylo · 12-12-2010, 08:09 PM

If she hadn't done it the kid's session (and maybe the Troll session) would have been aborted, and/or something would have happened to make her do it.

There's no choice involved. No matter what choices she makes, Bec Noir is THERE. In the Troll Session. She can't change that. That's not how time works in the Homestuck universe.

Any attempt to change ANYTHING results in at least one aborted universe. See: Terezi vis a vis getting John killed to see if it was possible for her to change things.

They can't.

Vriska wanting to be the one to create Bec Noir isn't what created Bec Noir. Bec Noir was fated to exist, and there's nothing anyone could have possibly done at any point, troll or human, to stop Bec Noir from existing without also indirectly murdering everyone in at least one of their universes and causing some sort of reboot involving Dave and/or Aradia.

In short, if Vriska hadn't done it, Dave or Aradia would have had to.

Further, No Bec = Dead Jade long before Jade ever even gets the discs.

Edit: P.S. This is why I don't like the whole 'all time loops must be perfectly stable' version of time travel in my fiction. It removes all pretense of choice or free will from the characters.

Art of Hilt · 12-12-2010, 08:11 PM

i think the issue people have is much less what vriska literally did and more that she is shown to be retroactively responsible for both jade's narcolepsy and dd stealing the MEOW code, which happened before she was even introduced, at the same time

so it's kind of like, "Oh, come on".

but at the same time, how DD knew where to get the MEOW code had been a mystery which is now solved

but still

i need the next update so bad right now because jesus

Loyal · 12-12-2010, 08:11 PM

Yes, it's a stable time loop that's fated to happen, because it already happened in the first place.

Because Vriska did it.

Weird Time Shit works both ways.

Krylo · 12-12-2010, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Loyal

Yes, it's a stable time loop that's fated to happen, because it already happened in the first place.

Because Vriska did it.

Weird Time Shit works both ways.

Except it doesn't.

It only works one way.

Vriska did it AFTER Bec Noir was in her session. At that point all pretense of choice or free will was removed from every troll vis a vis the kid's session.

POS Industries · 12-12-2010, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Krylo

Further, No Bec = Dead Jade long before Jade ever even gets the discs.

Or before she got her present from John from the future, prompting her to seek out the other kids, which is quite probably the very reason the four of them ever knew of each other in the first place, meaning No Bec = Dead Jade = Dead John, Rose, Dave, Dad, Mom, Bro, and Grandpa when the meteors began since they didn't have any friends to pull them into the Medium.

Every bad thing is her fault, but every good thing in the kids' universe is possible because of her actions, as well.

12-12-2010, 07:37 PM	#3211
BitVyper History's Strongest Dilettante Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Arcadia Posts: 6,662	Yay Vriska! __________________ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!" Awesome art be here.

12-12-2010, 07:40 PM	#3212
mauve So Dreamy Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Someplace magical Posts: 6,863	All in favor of Tavros finally snapping, and in a display of glorious poetic justice, kicking the everloving shit out of Vriska, say aye. I for one would totally support this idea. __________________ Yoo Hoo!

12-12-2010, 07:50 PM	#3213
Flarecobra Burn. Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Classified Posts: 11,017	Damnit Vriska. __________________ "Only the fool wishes to go into battle to beat someone for the satisfaction of beating someone." -A Thousand Sons Rules. Read them, know them, love them.

12-12-2010, 07:55 PM	#3214
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Would have happened anyway, and if it hadn't everyone would have died. Vriska: Having a better grasp on interdimensional temporal mechanics than the average forum goer since 2010. __________________ I am very tired.

12-12-2010, 08:09 PM	#3216
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	If she hadn't done it the kid's session (and maybe the Troll session) would have been aborted, and/or something would have happened to make her do it. There's no choice involved. No matter what choices she makes, Bec Noir is THERE. In the Troll Session. She can't change that. That's not how time works in the Homestuck universe. Any attempt to change ANYTHING results in at least one aborted universe. See: Terezi vis a vis getting John killed to see if it was possible for her to change things. They can't. Vriska wanting to be the one to create Bec Noir isn't what created Bec Noir. Bec Noir was fated to exist, and there's nothing anyone could have possibly done at any point, troll or human, to stop Bec Noir from existing without also indirectly murdering everyone in at least one of their universes and causing some sort of reboot involving Dave and/or Aradia. In short, if Vriska hadn't done it, Dave or Aradia would have had to. Further, No Bec = Dead Jade long before Jade ever even gets the discs. Edit: P.S. This is why I don't like the whole 'all time loops must be perfectly stable' version of time travel in my fiction. It removes all pretense of choice or free will from the characters. __________________ I am very tired. Last edited by Krylo; 12-12-2010 at 08:11 PM.

12-12-2010, 08:02 PM	#3215
Bard The 5th LW Feelin' Super! Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 4,191	But if she didn't do it then it never would have happened for her to make it happen anyways in the first place. And 'it would happen anyways' is becoming a really sour justification.

12-12-2010, 08:11 PM	#3217
Art of Hilt tamp tamp tamp Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,270	i think the issue people have is much less what vriska literally did and more that she is shown to be retroactively responsible for both jade's narcolepsy and dd stealing the MEOW code, which happened before she was even introduced, at the same time so it's kind of like, "Oh, come on". but at the same time, how DD knew where to get the MEOW code had been a mystery which is now solved but still i need the next update so bad right now because jesus __________________ Hey baby, I hear the blues a-callin'. Tossed salad and scrambled eggs Oh My! Mercy! And maybe I seem a bit confused, yeah maybe, but I got you pegged! But I don�t know what to do with those tossed salads and scrambled eggs. They're calling again.