Homesuck: Vriska Rising - Page 631

katiuska · 03-10-2011, 08:29 AM

...Huh.

Something I've been wondering: would destroying the Green Sun in any way impair the progress of sessions? We know that First Guardians require it, so I guess the question depends on how integral First Guardians are to the game (the game does seem organized to ensure that one is created in each session) and at what point in any given session the effect takes place. Based on Rose's response, she seems to infer that LE's progression might be the result of a successful Green Sun mission, by effectively leaving him a trail of dead first guardians (each at the end of their journeys*) with dead universes to work his way through.

(*My default assumption is that the effect hits a guardian after their mission is over, because nothing Doc Scratch says suggests that other sessions can't be successful without the Green Sun, so if that's true, either First Guardians are unnecessary, or a given First Guardian has already done what they needed to do when they lose their power source.)

I don't know if that made any sense. I've been doped up and sleeping pills and about to go lie back down.

Loyal · 03-10-2011, 10:22 AM

The Green Sun exists outside time and space; it would make sense that destroying the Sun would therefore destroy every instance of a First Guardian, ever, retroactively.

Given how time shenanigans work in Homestuck, however, we can draw two conclusions: One, the Green Sun mission fails, or Two, there's an additional factor to all this we're not yet aware of.

Marc v4.0 · 03-10-2011, 11:33 AM

Being outside of Time and Space, the exact time the Green Sun destruction takes place could be different across all sessions, and facilitate LE through all possible game sessions that have taken place or will take place across all universes.

Given how particular Homestuck is about some of their time stuff, this seems a favorite outcome.

Viridis · 03-10-2011, 04:23 PM

Quote:

What have I said about confirming the reliability of your sources?

I love how Doc just breaks established things by showing how little the trolls truly know

Quote:

But there are rules to his entry, and his grim procession through paradox space is rather orderly. The present equilibrium has accounted for him, and will continue to.

So LE isn't quite the Death of Everything Ever Bad Times for Everyone like I had thought. But he IS evil, Scratch reveals, not some big neutral thing a la Galactus

Dracorion · 03-10-2011, 04:32 PM

The comment about reliability also applies to Scratch himself, I think.

I mean, between universes being created and destroyed, doomed timelines, Sburb sessions and resets, the collective of everything that is, was, could be, never was and never will be is infinite.

Given that we know Scratch isn't really omniscient, just nearly omniscient, then I suspect that dark spots in his knowledge are actually a great many and he's not aware of most of them.

Art of Hilt · 03-10-2011, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viridis

I love how Doc just breaks established things by showing how little the trolls truly know

To be fair, I suspect that the other ways of God tier that Doc mentions is actually one we've seen before, when Aradia did it. I mean, he just said that there are other Quest Beds, right, so the same mechanics would apply, it'd just be in a different place?
A place like the crypts of Derse.

e- I really have no idea how this would help Rose any more though, like, why would it matter which Bed you kill yourself on?

Dracorion · 03-10-2011, 05:30 PM

There's the Quest Beds on Skaia.

Arcanum · 03-10-2011, 05:45 PM

Quest beds also exist within their memories. In other words, her Dreamself will go to the Green Sun, drop of The Tumor, then enter a dream bubble, fall asleep on her dream/memory quest bed, die when the bomb goes off, and then bam! God Tier Rose.

Pip Boy · 03-10-2011, 07:09 PM

Ceasing to exist is not the same thing as dying.

Hyndrays · 03-11-2011, 08:21 AM

Of course Andrew kinda slows the updates right here. -.-

(Off topic but, Stare at Arcanum's avatar until you lose focus and see double. Looks like Doc is splitting into two entities. Looks kinda cool except for the fact that it is highly seizure inducing.)

03-10-2011, 08:29 AM	#6301
katiuska Unlicensed Practitioner Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 801	...Huh. Something I've been wondering: would destroying the Green Sun in any way impair the progress of sessions? We know that First Guardians require it, so I guess the question depends on how integral First Guardians are to the game (the game does seem organized to ensure that one is created in each session) and at what point in any given session the effect takes place. Based on Rose's response, she seems to infer that LE's progression might be the result of a successful Green Sun mission, by effectively leaving him a trail of dead first guardians (each at the end of their journeys) with dead universes to work his way through. (My default assumption is that the effect hits a guardian after their mission is over, because nothing Doc Scratch says suggests that other sessions can't be successful without the Green Sun, so if that's true, either First Guardians are unnecessary, or a given First Guardian has already done what they needed to do when they lose their power source.) I don't know if that made any sense. I've been doped up and sleeping pills and about to go lie back down. __________________ If I try too hard my brain explodes, so don't expect me to be witty on purpose. Last edited by katiuska; 03-10-2011 at 08:46 AM.

03-10-2011, 11:33 AM	#6303
Marc v4.0 Fight Me, Nerds Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,470	Being outside of Time and Space, the exact time the Green Sun destruction takes place could be different across all sessions, and facilitate LE through all possible game sessions that have taken place or will take place across all universes. Given how particular Homestuck is about some of their time stuff, this seems a favorite outcome. __________________

03-10-2011, 04:32 PM	#6305
Dracorion Moves Like Jagger, Kupo! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: To the south, a little to the left... Or to the right. Posts: 4,910	The comment about reliability also applies to Scratch himself, I think. I mean, between universes being created and destroyed, doomed timelines, Sburb sessions and resets, the collective of everything that is, was, could be, never was and never will be is infinite. Given that we know Scratch isn't really omniscient, just nearly omniscient, then I suspect that dark spots in his knowledge are actually a great many and he's not aware of most of them. __________________ Dracorion's dumbass color is Royal Blue. If you see that color, you better run the fuck away.

03-10-2011, 05:30 PM	#6307
Dracorion Moves Like Jagger, Kupo! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: To the south, a little to the left... Or to the right. Posts: 4,910	There's the Quest Beds on Skaia. __________________ Dracorion's dumbass color is Royal Blue. If you see that color, you better run the fuck away.

03-10-2011, 05:45 PM	#6308
Arcanum Strike the Earth! Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Canada Posts: 3,185	Quest beds also exist within their memories. In other words, her Dreamself will go to the Green Sun, drop of The Tumor, then enter a dream bubble, fall asleep on her dream/memory quest bed, die when the bomb goes off, and then bam! God Tier Rose.

03-10-2011, 07:09 PM	#6309
Pip Boy Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: A right and proper Nerd Cave Posts: 2,460	Ceasing to exist is not the same thing as dying.

03-11-2011, 08:21 AM	#6310
Hyndrays Troopa Join Date: Feb 2011 Posts: 56	Of course Andrew kinda slows the updates right here. -.- (Off topic but, Stare at Arcanum's avatar until you lose focus and see double. Looks like Doc is splitting into two entities. Looks kinda cool except for the fact that it is highly seizure inducing.)