Homesuck: Vriska Rising - Page 727

Marc v4.0 · 06-08-2011, 04:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NonCon

It was just. It was essentially killing Vriska for being to blame for everyone dying in the doomed timeline.

Yeah, was about to say. They can only be slayed as a Hero, or as a Villian for a Just cause. This was pretty Just.

Specterbane · 06-08-2011, 06:23 AM

And Terezi is JUSTICE.

Also I think part of the reason so much time was spent trolling the viewer could easily be attributed to Doc Scratch being Doc Scratch, thus being characterization.

Ha Ha
Hee Hee
Hoo Hoo and all that.

POS Industries · 06-08-2011, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc v1.0

Yeah, was about to say. They can only be slayed as a Hero, or as a Villian for a Just cause. This was pretty Just.

It was "just" from Terezi's point of view, but insofar as the qualifications for Vriska staying dead in god tier it was just her being stabbed in the back. It was neither her dying in a heroic blaze of glory (as she might have against Jack) nor her being stopped as she was actually doing anything villainous (as she arguably would have if Tavros had actually killed her).

Being killed because you have a stupid fairy dust trail that can be tracked isn't justice.

Marc v4.0 · 06-08-2011, 06:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by POS Industries

It was "just" from Terezi's point of view, but insofar as the qualifications for Vriska staying dead in god tier it was just her being stabbed in the back. It was neither her dying in a heroic blaze of glory (as she might have against Jack) nor her being stopped as she was actually doing anything villainous (as she arguably would have if Tavros had actually killed her).

Being killed because you have a stupid fairy dust trail that can be tracked isn't justice.

She was selfishly sacrificing the safety of her friends and people on a fools errand for the sake of glory. On top of that, she was responsible for the mess just so she could be the one to grab that glory. She openly boasted about being the cause of it all, justifying everything with a handwave of "Well, it already happened anyway", and then murdered the only other person to stand up to her. Those are the direct opposite acts and intentions of a Hero. On a cosmic and karmatic scale, Justice is served.

The very thing you claim would have counted if Tavros had killed her, being the mastermind of the entire disaster, did not stop being a thing that happened, irregardless of Terezi's knowledge of it. She was a Villian, no matter who brought justice to bear.

POS Industries · 06-08-2011, 07:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc v1.0

She was selfishly sacrificing the safety of her friends and people on a fools errand for the sake of glory.

Stupid, but not villainous and would be altogether irrelevant if not for it being the situation under which she was killed. She was going off to do something heroic that she couldn't be allowed to do because of extenuating circumstances.

Her going would have put everyone else at risk, but that didn't make it an evil act.

Quote:

On top of that, she was responsible for the mess just so she could be the one to grab that glory. She openly boasted about being the cause of it all, justifying everything with a handwave of "Well, it already happened anyway", and then murdered the only other person to stand up to her. Those are the direct opposite acts and intentions of a Hero. On a cosmic and karmatic scale, Justice is served.

The very thing you claim would have counted if Tavros had killed her, being the mastermind of the entire disaster, did not stop being a thing that happened, irregardless of Terezi's knowledge of it. She was a Villian, no matter who brought justice to bear.

The problem is that she wasn't killed as punishment for her crimes. She was killed out of an immediate necessity that was completely separate from them.

Marc v4.0 · 06-08-2011, 07:17 AM

Ok, the only other option here is that she wakes back up, Kills Terezi, goes off anyway and it all happens pretty much the same way.

If she could see what was going to happen if Vriska was left alive, don't you maybe think she would be able to tell if her actions were pointless?

Dracorion · 06-08-2011, 07:21 AM

Well, it's not like John got back up immediately. Something might happen to keep her from going off after the wakes up.

Like, I dunno, maybe Gamzee shows up. He's the one who put this shindig together anyway.

Marc v4.0 · 06-08-2011, 07:24 AM

I forgot all about the gordamn clown...

BitVyper · 06-08-2011, 07:31 AM

Vriska still hasn't had John's first conversation with her. She might do it as she dies, but otherwise, she still has something to do.

As far as whether or not this qualifies as "just," well I figure you can go either way with that at this point, but I think the stronger case is for not-just. It's more the lame sort of just that I don't think counts for killing a god tier. Although there was a more cerebral duel going on here simply with Terezi's dare to Vriska (the coin toss) and Vriska's dare to Terezi(Here's my back), I think if Vriska is to die, paradox space will demand a more satisfying conclusion to her life. But whether or not she lives will be the very thing which defines "just" for us.

Anyway, this not-fight gave us a good idea of where Jack's upper limits are, and exactly how potentially powerful a god tier really can be. Imagine the XP reward dead timeline Vriska would get for taking him down.

Speaking of which, I'm beginning to think that the dead timelines are going to be more integral in some way during the future than they have been up to this point (and some of them have been pretty important already!).

Edit: And it's nice to see exactly how Terezi plays her role. Imagine her sight if she were god tier.

**Revising Ocelot** · 06-08-2011, 07:49 AM

I'm starting to get the impression we'll have a second Midnight Crew intermission once A5A2 wraps up. There's a lot of funky questions popping up. Such as why Quarters (badass Felt or most badass Felt?) is alive despite initially being stuck off - unless being connected to Clovers somehow preserves him, and how SS got that robo-arm in the first place. Also how SS survives being Swiss Cheese'd, because there's no way he's not getting back up with uber-revenge in mind.

Maybe round it off with Doc dying and LE summoning. That'd be neat.

06-08-2011, 06:23 AM	#7262
Specterbane Safety First Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Land of Gumdrops and Ice-cream Posts: 746	And Terezi is JUSTICE. Also I think part of the reason so much time was spent trolling the viewer could easily be attributed to Doc Scratch being Doc Scratch, thus being characterization. Ha Ha Hee Hee Hoo Hoo and all that. __________________ http://www.nuklearforums.com/showpos...ostcount=10436

06-08-2011, 07:17 AM	#7266
Marc v4.0 Fight Me, Nerds Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,470	Ok, the only other option here is that she wakes back up, Kills Terezi, goes off anyway and it all happens pretty much the same way. If she could see what was going to happen if Vriska was left alive, don't you maybe think she would be able to tell if her actions were pointless? __________________

06-08-2011, 07:21 AM	#7267
Dracorion Moves Like Jagger, Kupo! Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: To the south, a little to the left... Or to the right. Posts: 4,910	Well, it's not like John got back up immediately. Something might happen to keep her from going off after the wakes up. Like, I dunno, maybe Gamzee shows up. He's the one who put this shindig together anyway. __________________ Dracorion's dumbass color is Royal Blue. If you see that color, you better run the fuck away.

06-08-2011, 07:24 AM	#7268
Marc v4.0 Fight Me, Nerds Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,470	I forgot all about the gordamn clown... __________________

06-08-2011, 07:31 AM	#7269
BitVyper History's Strongest Dilettante Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Arcadia Posts: 6,662	Vriska still hasn't had John's first conversation with her. She might do it as she dies, but otherwise, she still has something to do. As far as whether or not this qualifies as "just," well I figure you can go either way with that at this point, but I think the stronger case is for not-just. It's more the lame sort of just that I don't think counts for killing a god tier. Although there was a more cerebral duel going on here simply with Terezi's dare to Vriska (the coin toss) and Vriska's dare to Terezi(Here's my back), I think if Vriska is to die, paradox space will demand a more satisfying conclusion to her life. But whether or not she lives will be the very thing which defines "just" for us. Anyway, this not-fight gave us a good idea of where Jack's upper limits are, and exactly how potentially powerful a god tier really can be. Imagine the XP reward dead timeline Vriska would get for taking him down. Speaking of which, I'm beginning to think that the dead timelines are going to be more integral in some way during the future than they have been up to this point (and some of them have been pretty important already!). Edit: And it's nice to see exactly how Terezi plays her role. Imagine her sight if she were god tier. __________________ "There are worlds out there where the sky is burning, and the sea is asleep, and the rivers dream. People made of smoke and cities made of song. Somewhere there's danger, somewhere there's injustice, somewhere else the tea's getting cold. Come on, Ace; we've got work to do!" Awesome art be here. Last edited by BitVyper; 06-08-2011 at 07:35 AM.

06-08-2011, 07:49 AM	#7270
Revising Ocelot Douchebag Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Probably somewhere in England. Posts: 1,897	I'm starting to get the impression we'll have a second Midnight Crew intermission once A5A2 wraps up. There's a lot of funky questions popping up. Such as why Quarters (badass Felt or most badass Felt?) is alive despite initially being stuck off - unless being connected to Clovers somehow preserves him, and how SS got that robo-arm in the first place. Also how SS survives being Swiss Cheese'd, because there's no way he's not getting back up with uber-revenge in mind. Maybe round it off with Doc dying and LE summoning. That'd be neat. __________________ magic sucks