Suicide theme park?

[adamark]

Get said.

Is that correct? No. It isn't. How does a human have a need to survive? If he dies, isn't he just... dead? Isn't an innate need something like "in order to live, one must eat"?

It's pretty clear to me what Mirai meant. It doesn't do any good to get sarcastic just because he didn't clearly express the idea. What the idea looks like is that humans have an innate or instinctual drive to live/survive. THAT is accurate. However, humans are less instinctual and more cultural than ever before. Culture trumps instinct. You mentioned the code of the Bushido. That warrior culture valued honor more than life; it equipped its followers with the moral sanction to commit suicide for the sake of honor, but it didn't eliminate the instinct to survive.

If anything, i'd say that asian culture, having a large history with buddism, is far more prepared to accept in depth discussion about death... but here's the thing: they already do have such public discourse, on a level far higher than we in the west do, making them far more ready to accept such attractions compared to us. This explains why the proposal was made in the first place.

What do you mean by "public discourse" and how are you measuring the "west's" and "asian culture's"?

Maybe they are ready to accept suicide theme parks because it's fascinating and they want to explore why it's so prevalent but not because they are any more comfortable with it than westerners. Maybe they want to draw attention to it because it's an important social issue. Or maybe they just want to make money by making a sideshow like P.T. Barnum did.

There are plenty of gruesome tourist attractions in America. Have these elevated our public discourse? Do people consider their mortality more because of them or are the attractions just for amusement?

[Lucas]

the Junior Funeral Home, located at 609 North Alcaniz Street, offers 'an optional drive thru viewing window'

America has (or rather.. had) a drive thru viewing window.

Asia has sky burial, Zen, Bushido, the entire concept of ancestor worship.

And you ask me how i'm measuring their comfort towards death? Honestly, do some research into the matter, this one isn't even up for questioning. Look into Buddism and Zen. Why was Zen popular with the japanese military types? Because one of the main teachings is a complete lack of fear towards death.

It's pretty clear to me what Mirai meant. It doesn't do any good to get sarcastic just because he didn't clearly express the idea.

Mirai didn't say that... Are you reading this thread, or just trolling to annoy me? This is the second time you haven't had the decency to look for what i'm replying to. Once more and i'll just ignore your posts completely.

What the idea looks like is that humans have an innate or instinctual drive to live/survive. THAT is accurate. However, humans are less instinctual and more cultural than ever before. Culture trumps instinct. You mentioned the code of the Bushido. That warrior culture valued honor more than life; it equipped its followers with the moral sanction to commit suicide for the sake of honor, but it didn't eliminate the instinct to survive.

Culture trumps instinct, thus if you add that into what he said, that means that cultural "instinct" would have to be the cause of the stigma against suicide?

Wait, that was MY argument...

What do you mean by "public discourse" and how are you measuring the "west's" and "asian culture's"?

Public discourse means public discourse. The west/east cultural divide on death is huge, noted, and existance.

I googled "eastern spiritual teachings" and bam, in the first site i get the following heading for a set of paragraph:

In the West, we have an exaggerated identification with the personal self. We think of our personality as a unique, carefully cultivated entity that must be gratified and protected. This strengthens the urge to consume, mentioned earlier, and inculcates an extreme fear of death.

I google "death in buddism" The first line of the first page is as follows

Experiencing the death of a loved one, or witnessing the death of others, can be one of the most profound events in one's life. Especially in Western culture, death is something we pretend does not exist

Don't bother trying to attack me on this, you won't win because you aren't right.

There are plenty of gruesome tourist attractions in America. Have these elevated our public discourse? Do people consider their mortality more because of them or are the attractions just for amusement?

Oh, yeah? The grave of elvis does not count as a tourist attraction based on the theme of death. Its based on the theme of elvis, and has death thrown in as a curveball.

Wow, its his grave! Perfectly viable reaction. However the focus isn't grave, its HIS. When people go to the concentration camps, for example, there's nothing BUT death there. People change a lot having seen those things. Ask people you know, they will tell you there was something changing about the experience. They had to understand the pain and suffering of death as it happened to millions. The elvis tourist, by contrast, probably is humming a song in his head.

[Mirai Gen]

Alright, we'll have a war if you want to debate it, then.

Originally Posted by Lucas

Asia has sky burial, Zen, Bushido, the entire concept of ancestor worship.

And you ask me how i'm measuring their comfort towards death? Honestly, do some research into the matter, this one isn't even up for questioning. Look into Buddism and Zen. Why was Zen popular with the japanese military types? Because one of the main teachings is a complete lack of fear towards death.

But this is AMERICA, the land of the free and the home of the terrified of death. We practically pioneered the placeebo effect. Americans are terrified of death moreso than I've ever seen. And now, someone is making a theme park where suicides were commited - There's the keywords. Suicides were committed here. Suicides have never been a light topic to talk about. I hate to be brash, but suicides under Dictionary.com are "The act or an instance of intentionally killing oneself." Okay, so let's recap.
1 - Teenage high-school drama queens cutting themselves to generate pity.
2 - People clinically depressed and requiring help.
3 - People without clinic depression killing themselves due to a shitty life.
4 - Any sort of self-sacrifice in the name of another thing (Suicide bombers for example)

Originally Posted by lucas

Mirai didn't say that... Are you reading this thread, or just trolling to annoy me? This is the second time you haven't had the decency to look for what i'm replying to. Once more and i'll just ignore your posts completely.

I didn't say that, HE did. You misread, and insulting him for trolling didn't make it much better. In case you hadn't noticed by what he posted, he said "What Mirai meant. And he was right; that was what I meant.

Originally Posted by lucas

Culture trumps instinct, thus if you add that into what he said, that means that cultural "instinct" would have to be the cause of the stigma against suicide?

Wait, that was MY argument...

That is what I was trying to say. This is why I didn't want to keep talking on this forum in this arguement; we fucking agree!

Originally Posted by lucas

Public discourse means public discourse. The west/east cultural divide on death is huge, noted, and existance.

I googled "eastern spiritual teachings" and bam, in the first site i get the following heading for a set of paragraph:

I google "death in buddism" The first line of the first page is as follows

Don't bother trying to attack me on this, you won't win because you aren't right.

Give up, you can't win. right? Wouldn't you prefer to hear his opinion?

Originally Posted by lucas

Oh, yeah? The grave of elvis does not count as a tourist attraction based on the theme of death. Its based on the theme of elvis, and has death thrown in as a curveball.

Wow, its his grave! Perfectly viable reaction. However the focus isn't grave, its HIS. When people go to the concentration camps, for example, there's nothing BUT death there. People change a lot having seen those things. Ask people you know, they will tell you there was something changing about the experience. They had to understand the pain and suffering of death as it happened to millions. The elvis tourist, by contrast, probably is humming a song in his head.

Elvis was a superstar. People want to visit his grave to pay his respects, not to stay the night in the bathroom Elvis overdosed himself in. They want to see the King, they're not trying to scare themselves.

That was my point. It's going to be looked at in a negative light because marketing off of deaths isn't a NEW thing, but something as dark by society's light is going to be VERY sensitive.

But the thing I've been trying to say from the beginning was taht we agree from the beginning. We both think this could be a well done thing if it was done right, however we disagree for whichever reason. You seem to insist that it's just a western culture to fear death.

Yeah, well, you're right. That's why (and what) I disagree with; because it could cause alot of flak just because of what subject it is. Suicide.

[shiney]

Don't bother trying to attack me on this, you won't win because you aren't right.

Oops, someone stated an unjust and retarded ultimatum. Someone who has been consistently sarcastic in many threads in recent history.

Someone who won't be here for the next ten days.

Someone who better watch his fucking smart mouth if he wants to be allowed to continue coming back here in the future.

Got it, chump? Shut the hell up.

[cantiismypimp]

Id go there. I want to go to all those haunted houses that have turned into those places where you spend the night(cant remember what they are called).

Like there is this southron plantation house you can stay at where this slave girl posioned the lady and children then was hung. And the Borden house.

They have a show about all these places on the travel channel. This chinese place wouldnt be much different, except there werent any ghost sitings.

[Premmy]

Wow. Umm that is probably not a good idea unless the family and close friends
gave permission it might just bring up lots of bad stuff that people are trying to deal with in their own ways untimely deaths(murders,suicides) are not usually a positive thing, in some cultures yeah it might be but even then its almost reverent this sems like capitalising on a bad thing.

[Lucas]

But this is AMERICA

Actually, its hong kong. Go read the news post.

That about sums up the attention paid to facts in this thread.

[bolevar321]

Y'know, if so many people commit suicide there, maybe a theme park would be a good idea. It may discourage future suicides (at least in that area.) I mean, really, how many people go to six flags to kill themself?