Nikola Tesla, a true story

[Jagos]

Originally Posted by Inbred Chocobo

Yeah this is more of a link to a collection of pictures for Nikola Tesla, but Theoatmeal deserves credit for putting it all together so get over it.

Nikola Tesla

The Oatmeal is unfortunately biased for nothing other than being clouded on the flawed character that was Nikola Tesla. Sure, the man had some great stuff done in his day and age but come on... The inventor of AC? No, he wasn't. The greatest geek? Negatory. That would be Thomas Jefferson IMO.

So let's get into the claims here:

In a time when the majority of the world was still lit by candle power, an electrical system known as alternating current and to this day is what powers every home on the planet. Who do we have to thank for this invention that ushered humanity into a second industrial revolution? Nikola Tesla.

Nope. British chemist/scientistMichael Faraday[/url] created the principle of DC current. Hippolyte Pixii created AC based on this work. Want to see more? Here's the timeline. Basically, Tesla refined the process similar to the tinkerers that are making new uses for old products. Want to know how the war of the currents was won? George Westinghouse was Thomas Edison's rival.

Finally, look at what AC and DC do well. AC is used for transmission. DC is still used in our homes. Both are used for very specific purposes and we haven't done one over the other.

“Edison didn’t invent the light bulb, he improved upon the ideas of 22 other men who pioneered the light bulb before him. Edison simply figured out how to sell the light bulb.”

No shit. Neither did Tesla. Tesla was an eccentric that worked for Edison and didn't like it. But he sure didn't invent anything as I've pointed out before. Sure, he made it better, and we remember the waterfall incident. But seriously, let's give Edison some credit here. He brought a lot of engineers together along with the patents to get innovations that helped his bottom line. Keep it real. He was a rich man that knew how to innovate.

Case in point, Edison made a practical lightbulb which didn't burn out quickly. He also made them cheaper. Even Joseph Swan was in awe in how he found solutions to those problems.

I'm not even going to get into how the radar issue is so wrong other than saying Tesla never developed a prototype for his idea.

On to the next part:

X-Rays

Nope, not invented by Tesla. Look into Ivan Pulyui and Wilhelm Roentgen. Tesla did recognize the dangers of X-Rays where Edison did not.

The next part is probably the worst for TheOatmeal article that I don't condone on Edison.

Edison and Clarence Dally both experimented on themselves. Same as Marie and Pierre Curie. And this haunted Edison:

In 1903, a shaken Edison said "Don't talk to me about X-rays, I am afraid of them."

And what makes this even more of a D-bag move for The Oatmeal? Edison kept him on the payroll through his suffering. In the Libertarian society that was the 1900s, that was abnormal to say the least.

Now do I believe that Tesla is an unsung hero? Absolutely. People learn about Edison, but barely if ever learn about Tesla or any other people that were early 1900 creators in technology. Still, Tesla gave a lot in innovation, but we seriously need to recognize that there were others that helped him.

[Mr.Bookworm]

Originally Posted by Jagos

The Oatmeal is unfortunately biased for nothing other than being clouded on the flawed character that was Nikola Tesla. Sure, the man had some great stuff done in his day and age but come on... The inventor of AC? No, he wasn't. The greatest geek? Negatory. That would be Thomas Jefferson IMO.

So let's get into the claims here:



Nope. British chemist/scientistMichael Faraday[/url] created the principle of DC current. Hippolyte Pixii created AC based on this work. Want to see more? Here's the timeline. Basically, Tesla refined the process similar to the tinkerers that are making new uses for old products. Want to know how the war of the currents was won? George Westinghouse was Thomas Edison's rival.

Finally, look at what AC and DC do well. AC is used for transmission. DC is still used in our homes. Both are used for very specific purposes and we haven't done one over the other.



No shit. Neither did Tesla. Tesla was an eccentric that worked for Edison and didn't like it. But he sure didn't invent anything as I've pointed out before. Sure, he made it better, and we remember the waterfall incident. But seriously, let's give Edison some credit here. He brought a lot of engineers together along with the patents to get innovations that helped his bottom line. Keep it real. He was a rich man that knew how to innovate.

Case in point, Edison made a practical lightbulb which didn't burn out quickly. He also made them cheaper. Even Joseph Swan was in awe in how he found solutions to those problems.

I'm not even going to get into how the radar issue is so wrong other than saying Tesla never developed a prototype for his idea.

On to the next part:



Nope, not invented by Tesla. Look into Ivan Pulyui and Wilhelm Roentgen. Tesla did recognize the dangers of X-Rays where Edison did not.

The next part is probably the worst for TheOatmeal article that I don't condone on Edison.

Edison and Clarence Dally both experimented on themselves. Same as Marie and Pierre Curie. And this haunted [url-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Madison_Dally]Edison[/url]:



And what makes this even more of a D-bag move for The Oatmeal? Edison kept him on the payroll through his suffering. In the Libertarian society that was the 1900s, that was abnormal to say the least.

Now do I believe that Tesla is an unsung hero? Absolutely. People learn about Edison, but barely if ever learn about Tesla or any other people that were early 1900 creators in technology. Still, Tesla gave a lot in innovation, but we seriously need to recognize that there were others that helped him.

nope

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Jagos

No shit.

It isn't a "No shit" thing. Tons of people credit Edison for inventing the damn thing, it's a totally legitimate thing to point out when you're talking about the Light bulb in general. It might seem obvious for you but I've had this conversation at least three times. People genuinely believe that Edison invented the light bulb and I waste no chance to let people know he didn't.

[Loyal]

http://theoatmeal.com/blog/tesla_response

[Inbred Chocobo]

Originally Posted by Jagos

The Oatmeal is unfortunately biased for nothing other than being clouded on the flawed character that was Nikola Tesla. Sure, the man had some great stuff done in his day and age but come on... The inventor of AC? No, he wasn't. The greatest geek? Negatory. That would be Thomas Jefferson IMO.

Look, Theoatmeal isn't an educational site, so its rather obvious that the link is jazzed up. However there is more truth to it than that. First thing though is arguments that Jefferson is the greatest geek. That is rather debatable. The main two things we can contribute to Edison is the phonograph and the first industrial research laboratory. Everything else that has a patent with Edison's name on it was done under a team of researchers, and while it was his direction that created the projects, it was his team that did the groundwork.

Edison fits the bill for a businessman much better than he does an inventor. To be fair, he was a tinkerer, and he had a great vision, however could he have achieved this on his own with his team? Doubtful, his engineers brought a lot to the table. In truth, the reason they are arguing for Tesla is that indeed a lot of his free time went into tinkering, anything that caught his interest he played and messed with, and learned a lot about.

Nope. British chemist/scientistMichael Faraday[/url] created the principle of DC current. Hippolyte Pixii created AC based on this work. Want to see more? Here's the timeline. Basically, Tesla refined the process similar to the tinkerers that are making new uses for old products. Want to know how the war of the currents was won? George Westinghouse was Thomas Edison's rival.

Finally, look at what AC and DC do well. AC is used for transmission. DC is still used in our homes. Both are used for very specific purposes and we haven't done one over the other.

Firstly, the war of the currents was about getting power to homes. Edison was pushing for a DC power transmission system with needed a jump every block. The AC system was based off of Tesla's Polyphase system that Westinghouse was pushing for. Thanks to his ideas, Westinghouse was able to figure out that he needed transformers to enlarge and shrink the current, and actually looked and found for them. (I believe it was the Gaulard-Gibbs that was the transformer that gave this).

Let's not forget that Edison's way to fight the idea of using AC to transmit was to attempt to have legislation pass to not allow current more that 800 volts, pay people to electrocute animals, and thanks to his push, was then used to execute criminals.

No shit. Neither did Tesla. Tesla was an eccentric that worked for Edison and didn't like it. But he sure didn't invent anything as I've pointed out before. Sure, he made it better, and we remember the waterfall incident. But seriously, let's give Edison some credit here. He brought a lot of engineers together along with the patents to get innovations that helped his bottom line. Keep it real. He was a rich man that knew how to innovate.

Case in point, Edison made a practical lightbulb which didn't burn out quickly. He also made them cheaper. Even Joseph Swan was in awe in how he found solutions to those problems.

Of course, Edison was a business man. His were ideas of taking awesome things and thinking "How can we make money off this". The man used science as a get rich quick scheme. Edison was of a business mind. Its why he hired a lot of engineers and brought minds together, its why he had tons of patents from that lab, so that they could make money. The man pushed science forward, yes, but he didn't do the grunt work, he ran the business that did it.

Second, Tesla's falling out was due to Edison promising him a large sum of money to fix his DC current engines, and when Tesla did it, Edison laughed and said it was a joke. Edison tried to make it up to him by offering a raise, that point should be made, but I can very well see Tesla falling out with Edison after that.

I'm not even going to get into how the radar issue is so wrong other than saying Tesla never developed a prototype for his idea.

Ah, but Tesla held the patents and showed the basic design and principal of radio transmissions in 1891, the very same elements used in about every radio system before vacuum tubes came along. Other transmitters came along, improving on Tesla's design for commercial sale, but it was Tesla's design that made radio.

Nope, not invented by Tesla. Look into Ivan Pulyui and Wilhelm Roentgen. Tesla did recognize the dangers of X-Rays where Edison did not.

Whats funny about this is that Pulyui had no idea what he was dealing with when he was messing with cathode rays. Roentgen was the major creditor as he was the first person to send out to newspapers the picture his wife's hand via X-Ray in 1895. Tesla's experiments with X-Rays were started in 1887, and he had sent Roentgen pictures of his own hand through X-Rays, but unlike Roentgen, never published a thing.

The next part is probably the worst for TheOatmeal article that I don't condone on Edison.

Edison and Clarence Dally both experimented on themselves. Same as Marie and Pierre Curie. And this haunted [url-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clarence_Madison_Dally]Edison[/url]:

And what makes this even more of a D-bag move for The Oatmeal? Edison kept him on the payroll through his suffering. In the Libertarian society that was the 1900s, that was abnormal to say the least.

Now do I believe that Tesla is an unsung hero? Absolutely. People learn about Edison, but barely if ever learn about Tesla or any other people that were early 1900 creators in technology. Still, Tesla gave a lot in innovation, but we seriously need to recognize that there were others that helped him.

Of course they would leave that part out. This is a dramatization of Tesla version Edison. Yes, Edison kept paying Dally, which was rather considerate of the time. Its sad to hear that this could have been prevented from heeding Tesla's warnings and someone died from Edison not paying him any attention due to their earlier feud, but I will give you that Edison manned up and took care of Dally on that one.


Edison's legacy feels like he ran a great business in getting science to sell. Tesla's legacy was that of making and creating inventions. Edison was great for science as he brought business to it, but Tesla is the namesake of geekiness. He hid, he invented, he toyed, he made things that were cool, he invisioned ideas that were profound and amazing. Edison did too, but Edison was one for today, for selling, for getting it to work cheaply and into homes. Thats business, not geekiness.


Then loyal ninja'd me as well.

[Jagos]

Originally Posted by Inbred Chocobo

Look, Theoatmeal isn't an educational site, so its rather obvious that the link is jazzed up. However there is more truth to it than that. First thing though is arguments that Jefferson is the greatest geek. That is rather debatable. The main two things we can contribute to Edison is the phonograph and the first industrial research laboratory. Everything else that has a patent with Edison's name on it was done under a team of researchers, and while it was his direction that created the projects, it was his team that did the groundwork.

I like Jefferson because he was able to create his own book as well as understand copyright monopolies to the point that he was skeptical about the copyright clause being put into the Constitution. Say what you will, but for the time, he was the ultimate liberal that thought the Constitution should be read progressively rather than the Originalist claims we get from Scalia or Roberts nowadays.

But yes, I agree that Edison was the first Cave Johnson.

Edison fits the bill for a businessman much better than he does an inventor. To be fair, he was a tinkerer, and he had a great vision, however could he have achieved this on his own with his team? Doubtful, his engineers brought a lot to the table. In truth, the reason they are arguing for Tesla is that indeed a lot of his free time went into tinkering, anything that caught his interest he played and messed with, and learned a lot about.

Yes, Tesla was the true engineer. In no way am I defending Edison (given how I feel on his creation of patents to extort artists in his day), I merely say that Tesla is more CN while Edision is LE. I just don't think that either person could achieve all of their accomoplishments were it not for others working in the fields at the same time.

Firstly, the war of the currents was about getting power to homes. Edison was pushing for a DC power transmission system with needed a jump every block. The AC system was based off of Tesla's Polyphase system that Westinghouse was pushing for. Thanks to his ideas, Westinghouse was able to figure out that he needed transformers to enlarge and shrink the current, and actually looked and found for them. (I believe it was the Gaulard-Gibbs that was the transformer that gave this).

Let's not forget that Edison's way to fight the idea of using AC to transmit was to attempt to have legislation pass to not allow current more that 800 volts, pay people to electrocute animals, and thanks to his push, was then used to execute criminals.

As well as his famous waterfall experiment. But yeah, Edison with the electric chair...

Of course, Edison was a business man. His were ideas of taking awesome things and thinking "How can we make money off this". The man used science as a get rich quick scheme. Edison was of a business mind. Its why he hired a lot of engineers and brought minds together, its why he had tons of patents from that lab, so that they could make money. The man pushed science forward, yes, but he didn't do the grunt work, he ran the business that did it.

Amen.

Second, Tesla's falling out was due to Edison promising him a large sum of money to fix his DC current engines, and when Tesla did it, Edison laughed and said it was a joke. Edison tried to make it up to him by offering a raise, that point should be made, but I can very well see Tesla falling out with Edison after that.

No question. It's a similar topic to RCA and the AM/FM battles. Indie engies usually get screwed.

Ah, but Tesla held the patents and showed the basic design and principal of radio transmissions in 1891, the very same elements used in about every radio system before vacuum tubes came along. Other transmitters came along, improving on Tesla's design for commercial sale, but it was Tesla's design that made radio.

But I was talking about radar and that's a fail on my part...

Whats funny about this is that Pulyui had no idea what he was dealing with when he was messing with cathode rays. Roentgen was the major creditor as he was the first person to send out to newspapers the picture his wife's hand via X-Ray in 1895. Tesla's experiments with X-Rays were started in 1887, and he had sent Roentgen pictures of his own hand through X-Rays, but unlike Roentgen, never published a thing.

Looks like there needed to be an independent engineering league to stave off Edison in most areas. It seems to be more or less his way or the highway.

Of course they would leave that part out. This is a dramatization of Tesla version Edison. Yes, Edison kept paying Dally, which was rather considerate of the time. Its sad to hear that this could have been prevented from heeding Tesla's warnings and someone died from Edison not paying him any attention due to their earlier feud, but I will give you that Edison manned up and took care of Dally on that one.

Yeah, he's not all bad. I still don't like Edison as much as I do knowing his background, but it is what it is. Maybe Dally was a forlorn lover or something but still. That was a hard lesson to learn from messing with X-rays...

Edison's legacy feels like he ran a great business in getting science to sell. Tesla's legacy was that of making and creating inventions. Edison was great for science as he brought business to it, but Tesla is the namesake of geekiness. He hid, he invented, he toyed, he made things that were cool, he invisioned ideas that were profound and amazing. Edison did too, but Edison was one for today, for selling, for getting it to work cheaply and into homes. Thats business, not geekiness.

I don't think I'm advocating that Edison is necessarily a geek. What I'm against is Tesla being a god in engineering as he's being portrayed. Sure, he's a good guy and did a lot of decent advances. But he had a lot of help with others who advanced the field. Now did he help the Electronic Age? Absolutely. But greatest geek? Dunno when you compare him to William Bull, Richard Trevithick, and Arthur Woolf or the creators of the internet. So he has his place in history. Let's just keep it in perspective.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Jagos

But yes, I agree that Edison was the first Cave Johnson.

How bout not that.

[Jagos]

Originally Posted by K-Resh

How bout not that.

In regards to getting the engineers together to build projects and giving people the context that he's an extremely savvy businessman instead of an engineer and making him relevant to anyone reading? Yes.

In regards to being a bumbling idiot that has a vast empire while creating dangerous products? No.

Still, he is very heavily a player at the top of his game and I don't want to convey that he's in any way a CJ other than I just dislike him that much to make the comparison.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Cave was a ridiculously enthusiastic madman with a large budget that pursued projects with such enthusiasm it eventually brought about his downfall. Profit didn't matter, safety didn't matter. Only the limits of whatever the hell he thought up mattered.
Edison was profit profit profit. Nothing more nothing less.

There's parallels but not as many as there are opposites.

[MuMu]

Requesting a "Jagos" Thread Icon.