Bliss VERSUS Free Will

AndyBloodredMage · 05-20-2004, 06:43 PM

Well I was in civ class the other day, and we were reading about the Old Testament (as a piece of classic literature, not as something we should worship or whatnot.) I skimmed around and read up on the Garden of Eden, and remembered how someone told me that the apple gave Adam and Eve the ability to have free and independant thought. This might be wrong, but that is not the point of this thread, it is as thus:

When given the choice between eternal bliss, or independant thought, with the ability to achieve bliss, which would you choose?

I would personally pick eternal bliss. My interpration of life is to seek happiness despite the struggles and strifes of this world. Well, if I'm given the short-cut to the secret of life, I would glady jump onto the happy train. Why go through all the trouble if the end result is the same, only worse off, for you can lose the bliss and have to reachieve it?

Now this brings me to part two of my question. If there is a totalarionistic society, where one man ruled all, there was no way to move up rank, class, what-have-you, you pretty much had to keep what you given. Now if in this society, everyone liked it, everyone loved how it worked, function, even though they knew there was no way to advance, would you, given the opportunity, commit a complete revolution and throw down this government?

videogamerz2000 · 05-20-2004, 07:01 PM

1. I would go for the eternal bliss, no cares, no waorries, just happieness for the rest of your life.

2. Unless the gov't officials were boneheads, I wouldn't overthrow them. Of course, I would want more, but greed is just part of human nature. If the gov't practically gives you everything, I wouldn't mind if we were limited our choice of extras (ie. other than our needs for survival) in life. Ie. A plasma tv, advacned computers, etc. What I'm saying is that, sure, I could go on without a few extra gadgets if the gov't did everything for me.

AndyBloodredMage · 05-20-2004, 07:04 PM

Perhaps I phrased it wrong. Basically, whatever job your family does, you will inherit into. You won't have any possiblities of getting a better salary, no better items, you can only buy what your salary gives you, similar to our government only without the welfare. When you are getting on in your years the government puts you to sleep to stop the elderly problems. Any other clarifications necessary?

Krylo · 05-20-2004, 08:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyBloodredMage

Perhaps I phrased it wrong. Basically, whatever job your family does, you will inherit into.

First off, this isn't going to make people happy. No matter that you described this situation as it making people happy, it won't. My mother fixes other people's mistakes on calls for Northwest airlines and my father is a repiratory therapist. I don't want to do either of those things. I don't want to do anything even CLOSE to those things.

Quote:

When you are getting on in your years the government puts you to sleep to stop the elderly problems. Any other clarifications necessary?

I also like breathing... very very very much. If someone wants to kill me in a few years, I'm going to kill them NOW. Other people be damned... I want to live, and I'm GOING to survive for as long as I possibly can.

Besides... without uncertainty and surprise, life is no fun. It's like playing a video game with an infinite life cheat, that also limits you to the first level... you can't lose... but you can't win either. Where's the fun in that?

Krylo · 05-20-2004, 07:06 PM

Independant thought. They say ignorance is bliss, but it isn't really. It's false bliss. You can never truly be happy with the intellectual abilities of an animal. Sure... a dog gets happy when you pet it, or it eats when hungry... but it's just a pleasure response. It can't feel things like human love and affection... two of the things that come along with above animalistic thought.

As for the second... it really depends. Advancement isn't important... but freedom is. If the ruler let us do pretty much whatever the hell we please, and didn't invade our lives too much, I wouldn't care. However, if he did... and I was restricted beyond class, probably.

However... if there was someone who WANTED to advance, and they wanted to start an uprising. I'd back them. It's their human right to improve their lots in life. I'm just lazy so I wouldn't care enough to do it myself.

Edit: With your clarifications, yes, I'd lead the uprising.

Royalspork · 05-20-2004, 07:09 PM

hey wasn't this conversation (not word for word the idea) in ender's shadow
with ignorance you are happy with what you got (like taoism)
independant thought you must always have more. (like confusism)

videogamerz2000 · 05-20-2004, 07:11 PM

Well.... maybe I would revolt. Just for the sheer helluv it!

AndyBloodredMage · 05-20-2004, 07:16 PM

Pawns- I read Shadow, but don't recall that conversation happening.

Royalspork · 05-20-2004, 07:17 PM

the conversation between the nun and the guy that had a key of some sort (can't remember).

AndyBloodredMage · 05-20-2004, 07:19 PM

O, the key that gave bean his short life span but incredible intellectual capacity, the reverse being longevity in life, but below norm mental abilites. And the key wasn't a real key so much as it was a figurative key.

05-20-2004, 07:01 PM	#2
videogamerz2000 The Thunder Dragoon Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Next door Posts: 1,253	1. I would go for the eternal bliss, no cares, no waorries, just happieness for the rest of your life. 2. Unless the gov't officials were boneheads, I wouldn't overthrow them. Of course, I would want more, but greed is just part of human nature. If the gov't practically gives you everything, I wouldn't mind if we were limited our choice of extras (ie. other than our needs for survival) in life. Ie. A plasma tv, advacned computers, etc. What I'm saying is that, sure, I could go on without a few extra gadgets if the gov't did everything for me. __________________ Thunder Dragoon _______________________________ If I had a nickel for everytime I got drunk with, I would have a very effective nickel sock. To beat people with.

05-20-2004, 07:06 PM	#5
Krylo The Straightest Shota Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: It's a secret to everybody. Posts: 17,789	Independant thought. They say ignorance is bliss, but it isn't really. It's false bliss. You can never truly be happy with the intellectual abilities of an animal. Sure... a dog gets happy when you pet it, or it eats when hungry... but it's just a pleasure response. It can't feel things like human love and affection... two of the things that come along with above animalistic thought. As for the second... it really depends. Advancement isn't important... but freedom is. If the ruler let us do pretty much whatever the hell we please, and didn't invade our lives too much, I wouldn't care. However, if he did... and I was restricted beyond class, probably. However... if there was someone who WANTED to advance, and they wanted to start an uprising. I'd back them. It's their human right to improve their lots in life. I'm just lazy so I wouldn't care enough to do it myself. Edit: With your clarifications, yes, I'd lead the uprising. __________________ I am very tired.

05-20-2004, 07:09 PM	#6
Royalspork Magikoopa Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: chapel hill wo0t wo0t Posts: 1,617	hey wasn't this conversation (not word for word the idea) in ender's shadow with ignorance you are happy with what you got (like taoism) independant thought you must always have more. (like confusism) __________________ Zei Zao looks helplessly as he runs out of road to follow! The army of Huang Yao Shi grinds to a halt as to avoid wading through grass. That's for "common" armies. Much like Gao Hu's, who's invasion force reaches the border and sits in ambush for any fleeing units of Huang Yao Shi. In the grass. Cao Zhen, however, continues to follow the road, as grass is too green for his liking this time of year. You ain't got no K-Mart!

05-20-2004, 07:11 PM	#7
videogamerz2000 The Thunder Dragoon Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Next door Posts: 1,253	Well.... maybe I would revolt. Just for the sheer helluv it! __________________ Thunder Dragoon _______________________________ If I had a nickel for everytime I got drunk with, I would have a very effective nickel sock. To beat people with.

05-20-2004, 07:17 PM	#9
Royalspork Magikoopa Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: chapel hill wo0t wo0t Posts: 1,617	the conversation between the nun and the guy that had a key of some sort (can't remember). __________________ Zei Zao looks helplessly as he runs out of road to follow! The army of Huang Yao Shi grinds to a halt as to avoid wading through grass. That's for "common" armies. Much like Gao Hu's, who's invasion force reaches the border and sits in ambush for any fleeing units of Huang Yao Shi. In the grass. Cao Zhen, however, continues to follow the road, as grass is too green for his liking this time of year. You ain't got no K-Mart!