A story for the ages

Jagos · 11-11-2009, 11:46 PM

I've been recently getting into a lot of story elements. Tragedies such as Macbeth, comedies told by Shakespeare, and even the tale of Link and Zelda, as told by Nintendo.

For points of reference, I'll direct you to three different places:

Zelda timeline

Nintendo's response

Continuum

The last part is the largest portion. There's a reason I like the Overthinker. He really provokes thought into his vblogs and overall encourages people to really think about how the industry is going.

The argument, as put by Joseph Campbell is that games basically tell this story that we know and love. The fact is that we need continuity in our games to understand a basic story that gets told more than once.

My personal opinion? GOthinker has it correctly. Out of the stories that become epic, the stories that have been passed on for centuries, the fact remains that there are some commonalities that can't be ignored no matter the culture. But should this story telling mechanism be allowed to affect how others like their games such as the response that Nintendo gave? That is surely something I can't answer.

Melfice · 11-12-2009, 02:34 AM

Various Legend of Zelda's stand in relation to eachother as "MacBeth" stands to "Much Ado About Nothing".

If Nintendo says there's no relation between the game; no timeline... well. It's true, innit?
Doesn't mean the fans can't MAKE their timelines. It's just not canon.

Roland · 11-12-2009, 03:27 AM

Y'know, as much as I support the whole "It's a legend" idea, the way that generic form letter response put it really did seem more like an insult than an attempt to explain anything.

Anywho, I'll just link to the proper TVTropes page because seriously. OoT Link is not TWW/PH Link is not ST Link, and yet it's a fact (courtesy of Nintendo) that they lead into each other. "If they're not the same Link there's no connection" my ass.

Professor Smarmiarty · 11-12-2009, 03:24 AM

I have many problems with this. The idea of collective unconscious is based on an overemphasos on the role of the genetically coded nature of the brain and not its development due to experiences after birth which are far more important and a focus on the brain as we understood it in the early 20th century.
As for Joseph Campbell the way he breaks down stories is unhelpful. Using his method I could say pretty much any story is equivalent to any other story which is not helpful. What is more helpful is how each culture portrays their own stories- which Campbell goes into but GOthinker tragically does not, missing the most powerful way to actually use Campbell- how any protostory is used by each culture is critically in knowing about that culture.

As for Zelda, there have been contradictory statements from the makers, some have said there is a timeline others have not. I don't believe they made the games with a timeline in mind- because any timelines that have been constructed by fans are too fragmented and disjoined- any series with a real timeline would probably be more obvious. That said if fans find a timeline nobody can really say it doesn't exist.

Professor Smarmiarty · 11-12-2009, 03:48 AM

My point is, if you have an elaborate chronology of your games what do you gain by hiding it? Lots of people avoid playing the new zelda games because they are all very samey but if you market a chronology then they feel they have to play it to get the whole story.

Marc v4.0 · 11-12-2009, 05:00 AM

I thought at some point a timeline for the Zelda series had been released?

I do know that OoT is the origin of the timeline as far as the Triforce and Ganon is concerned, and MM is a direct sequal to that as well.

Professor Smarmiarty · 11-12-2009, 05:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marc v1.0

I thought at some point a timeline for the Zelda series had been released?

I do know that OoT is the origin of the timeline as far as the Triforce and Ganon is concerned, and MM is a direct sequal to that as well.

I know at times there has been said to be an official timelines, at times there has said to not be.
As far as official timelines I don't think so- except where games are direct sequels- like 1 and 2.

greed · 11-12-2009, 07:03 AM

Yeah that's what I think, there is no real big continuity but the games are divided into sort of sub-continuities. Like the Hero of Time games, OoT, Majora's Mask and the Oracle games. It kinda helps this theory that Majora's Mask pretty much confirms alternate realities existing in the series.

Malek · 11-12-2009, 07:07 AM

Well it's possible that there is a timeline for the whole series, but he didn't get the video to anyone who could tell him much. The guy sent his video to NoA, it's pretty unlikely he would get a decent response out of them. I doubt anyone at NoA knows more about the timeline of zelda than any of us do and I don't think that the people who respond to their emails would try to contact NoJ to get hold of someone who did over sending the standard reply to anything zelda timeline related. If he had gotten his video into the hands of Miyamoto, he might have gotten some decent answers.

PyrosNine · 11-12-2009, 10:06 AM

The first guy's (Ocarina10)'s timeline is ballocks and gave me an aneurysm. An Aneurysm!

Shit, i can't go to class today, because HEAD.

Seriously, Wind Waker coming after Ages and Seasons? I mean, Ages and Seasons have a proper place behind LttP, and even before or after Link's Awakening, but Wind Waker is a proven nod to Oot/Majora's Mask because Link went "poof!" to the visible eyes of history.

I agree with the statement that it's best to consider the Zelda timeline in chunks, as in games that are directly connected to each other:

Lttp, Ages/Seasons, Link's Awakening

OoT, MM,

Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass,

The Minish cap, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures

Zelda 1 and 2

With Twilight Princess (ignore shooting gallery) and Spirit Tracks being fairly unconnected by virtue of not being out yet or only having "spiritual" hooks into everything.

11-11-2009, 11:46 PM	#1
Jagos FRONT KICK OF DOOM! Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Howdy pardner... Posts: 6,399	A story for the ages I've been recently getting into a lot of story elements. Tragedies such as Macbeth, comedies told by Shakespeare, and even the tale of Link and Zelda, as told by Nintendo. For points of reference, I'll direct you to three different places: Zelda timeline Nintendo's response Continuum The last part is the largest portion. There's a reason I like the Overthinker. He really provokes thought into his vblogs and overall encourages people to really think about how the industry is going. The argument, as put by Joseph Campbell is that games basically tell this story that we know and love. The fact is that we need continuity in our games to understand a basic story that gets told more than once. My personal opinion? GOthinker has it correctly. Out of the stories that become epic, the stories that have been passed on for centuries, the fact remains that there are some commonalities that can't be ignored no matter the culture. But should this story telling mechanism be allowed to affect how others like their games such as the response that Nintendo gave? That is surely something I can't answer. __________________ Copyright musings World ramblings Scifi stories

11-12-2009, 05:00 AM	#6
Marc v4.0 Fight Me, Nerds Join Date: Oct 2008 Posts: 3,470	I thought at some point a timeline for the Zelda series had been released? I do know that OoT is the origin of the timeline as far as the Triforce and Ganon is concerned, and MM is a direct sequal to that as well. __________________

11-12-2009, 10:06 AM	#10
PyrosNine Zettai Hero Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: A figment of my own imagination Posts: 6,103	The first guy's (Ocarina10)'s timeline is ballocks and gave me an aneurysm. An Aneurysm! Shit, i can't go to class today, because HEAD. Seriously, Wind Waker coming after Ages and Seasons? I mean, Ages and Seasons have a proper place behind LttP, and even before or after Link's Awakening, but Wind Waker is a proven nod to Oot/Majora's Mask because Link went "poof!" to the visible eyes of history. I agree with the statement that it's best to consider the Zelda timeline in chunks, as in games that are directly connected to each other: Lttp, Ages/Seasons, Link's Awakening OoT, MM, Wind Waker, Phantom Hourglass, The Minish cap, Four Swords, Four Swords Adventures Zelda 1 and 2 With Twilight Princess (ignore shooting gallery) and Spirit Tracks being fairly unconnected by virtue of not being out yet or only having "spiritual" hooks into everything. __________________ Pyrosnine.blogspot.com: An experimental blog of writing. Updated possibly daily. Possibly. A fair chance. Current Works for reading: War Between them, Karma Police. PyrosNine: Weirdo Magnet Extraordinaire!

11-12-2009, 02:34 AM	#2
Melfice Vigilo - Confido Join Date: Dec 2003 Posts: 4,846	Various Legend of Zelda's stand in relation to eachother as "MacBeth" stands to "Much Ado About Nothing". If Nintendo says there's no relation between the game; no timeline... well. It's true, innit? Doesn't mean the fans can't MAKE their timelines. It's just not canon.

11-12-2009, 03:27 AM	#3
Roland Professional Layabout Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: A desert on and surrounded by mountains. Posts: 722	Y'know, as much as I support the whole "It's a legend" idea, the way that generic form letter response put it really did seem more like an insult than an attempt to explain anything. Anywho, I'll just link to the proper TVTropes page because seriously. OoT Link is not TWW/PH Link is not ST Link, and yet it's a fact (courtesy of Nintendo) that they lead into each other. "If they're not the same Link there's no connection" my ass.

11-12-2009, 03:24 AM	#4
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	I have many problems with this. The idea of collective unconscious is based on an overemphasos on the role of the genetically coded nature of the brain and not its development due to experiences after birth which are far more important and a focus on the brain as we understood it in the early 20th century. As for Joseph Campbell the way he breaks down stories is unhelpful. Using his method I could say pretty much any story is equivalent to any other story which is not helpful. What is more helpful is how each culture portrays their own stories- which Campbell goes into but GOthinker tragically does not, missing the most powerful way to actually use Campbell- how any protostory is used by each culture is critically in knowing about that culture. As for Zelda, there have been contradictory statements from the makers, some have said there is a timeline others have not. I don't believe they made the games with a timeline in mind- because any timelines that have been constructed by fans are too fragmented and disjoined- any series with a real timeline would probably be more obvious. That said if fans find a timeline nobody can really say it doesn't exist.

11-12-2009, 03:48 AM	#5
Professor Smarmiarty Sent to the cornfield Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: K-space Posts: 9,758	My point is, if you have an elaborate chronology of your games what do you gain by hiding it? Lots of people avoid playing the new zelda games because they are all very samey but if you market a chronology then they feel they have to play it to get the whole story.

11-12-2009, 07:07 AM	#9
Malek Shyguy Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 119	Well it's possible that there is a timeline for the whole series, but he didn't get the video to anyone who could tell him much. The guy sent his video to NoA, it's pretty unlikely he would get a decent response out of them. I doubt anyone at NoA knows more about the timeline of zelda than any of us do and I don't think that the people who respond to their emails would try to contact NoJ to get hold of someone who did over sending the standard reply to anything zelda timeline related. If he had gotten his video into the hands of Miyamoto, he might have gotten some decent answers.