Going Nuklear

[Fifthfiend]

(Well, I wrote all of this and then saw the "moratorium" discussion had been closed, so, here it is.)

The original announcement pushed about every button I personally have that can be pushed, but I figured, well, I should at least see what you guys had to say as far as explanation, maybe the situation wasn't exactly what it had seemed at first. All I can say is, well, so much for the benefit of the doubt. So, here's my response, and sod civility, cause that was thrown out the window from the get-go.



Shiney and Mashirosen:

Knock it the fuck off already.

You know, I could deal with the ban, but what I won't deal with is the constant stream of crap you two have been spouting since you announced it, which frankly is the about the biggest bunch of condescending, arrogant know-nothingist BS and ignorant self-justification I've ever heard. If you two are supposed to be authority figures in this community, you might try acting like it, instead of like my 10 year old cousin anytime somebody lets him be the banker in fucking Monopoly.

-I'd like to know exactly what you guys mean by "political" and "politically motivated," because you still haven't bothered defining that. As far as thread closings, you've done Get Your Vote On (no brainer), anything to do with Iraq, and the F-9/11 thread. Meanwhile, you've left open Abortion, Virginia's Gay Marriage Act, Media Bias, and Pirate Act. I don't get what leads you guys to think those threads aren't political -- for God's sake, two of those deal expressly with current legislation!

The only way I see the Iraq discussion being different from abortion is if you are somehow under the impression that while abortion is a relevant issue on which people wish to their deeply held convictions, whereas one's stated opinion on the war and desire to discuss it are tied inextricably to some ineffable love/hatred of George W Bush.

Censorship's fine and well, but what the fuck do you expect people to do when you haven't actually told us what we're not supposed to say? Stalin was less fucking obtuse.

-You guys maybe want to explain what you mean by "spewing propaganda"? I mean what, like citing fucking facts and information from reputable news sources that are relevant to the discussion? I guess it's easier to call everything "propaganda" than ever having to fucking read anything. And incidentally, when Mashirosen's posting shit from goddamn Prevention.com, how in fuck's name is that not pro-abortion propaganda by whatever fucking insane definition you're using?

And seriously, Shiney -- it's propAganda, if you're going to spout off about it this goddamn much, get it goddamn right. And when Mashirosen's posting shit from goddamn Prevention.com, how in fuck's name is that not pro-abortion propaganda by whatever fucking insane definition you're using?

To suit those who do have a voracious, nay, instatiable, nay, indefatigable hunger for all things political, I have saved you 11 seconds and given you a google search for Political Discussion Forums.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...G=Google+Search

-Not that I'm not grateful for the timely little lesson on the existence of the Google search engine, but it's just possible those of us who have an insatiable appetite for knowing what the fuck we're talking about already know where to go for politics-only discussion.

Thing is, most all-politics forums end up being not even preaching to the choir so much as preaching to a bunch of would-be preachers, and most mainly non-political forums that also try to have 'serious discussion' mostly consist of the same ignorant-ass platitudes I can get from Cokie Roberts on the Today show.

The discussion thing here was good because there's a decent cross-section of opinions, from people who actually like paying attention to things and backing up their opinions with facts -- whoops, "propaganda".

-Try getting your goddamn story straight, would you?

I personally don't want to hear the names Bush or Kerry or Nader or any of that shit for months and months. Only place I even want to read them is on the ballot.

don't say this is inspired only by me or by personal feelings. In a very real way this is saving the discussion forum entirely.

So it's inspired by your, Kurosen, and Mashirosen's "personal feelings," whoopity-doo. And the only thing you guys seem interested in saving is the spotless perfection of your beatiful minds. I don't know, this probably qualifies as "politically motivated," but there's a great quote about destroying the village in order to save it you pricks might want to look up sometime.

I don't remember hearing complaining like this when we decided religious discussion wasn't allowed, and we did that for just about the same reasons. If you can understand why we did that, you really shouldn't be having so much trouble wrapping your heads around this one.

-You know, if you'd announced that decision by saying "no more religion discussion because we just can't fucking stand Jesus and by the way, the Koran is a bunch of propaganda, here's some random religious webpage for you now fuck off," it's just possible some strong feelings might possibly result. Possibly. So, y'know, maybe try 'wrapping your head around' that one.

[QUOTE]I will begin to be cynical and come off sounding like a complete child. [ /QUOTE]

-Pot motherfucking Kettle. Being a child you've got nailed, and there's no kind of cynical worse than someone can't be bothered to so much as listen to a viewpoint outside their own Goddamn experience.

Lycanthrope and Muffin Mage, thank you. You guys get the point.

-What, you mean that the purpose of this forum is to find a bunch of people willing to call you "almighty"? Fuck that. And as far as this goes --

A moratorium isn't permanent people. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

-- again, try getting your story straight, because well, I'm sure as hell not the one saying --

In a very real way this is saving the discussion forum entirely.

-- which sounds to me like you're the ones making a mountain, out of something that smells way worse than a damn molehill.

I mean...if [Kurosen] had made the post, would you be questioning his decision and PMing him?

Hey Brian Clevinger -- your moderators are being dicks, and if you back them up, you're a dick too.

There, Shiney, you happy now?

Look, stop acting like you assholes are somehow above the rest of us. You're a bunch of college-age-plus fuckwits same as me, and the ability to run a fucking webcomic forum doesn't give you some kind of Goddamn monopoly on self-righteousness.

You probably could have said you just don't enjoy political discussion without acting like everybody who does has some kind of fucking mental illness. Nobody knew there was a problem until you jackasses said so, and maybe if you hadn't been dicks about saying so, that would have been the end of it.

You want to be ignorant, fine, but I swear, you guys just clutch that ignorance to your breast like it's some kind of treasure, and then strut about displaying it around like some kind of fucking badge of honor and license to look down on anybody who actually knows shit about shit.

You don't like it? Get out.

Done and done. I like the posters on this forum, and it was nice having something to do while I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere all summer, but if it means putting up with mods who want to live in some insulated fantasy world where their beliefs are as the writ of God and the mere possibility that they themselves might just possibly be the assholes is inconcievable, then screw it. If this is the kind of behavior people are expected to put up with here, then clearly I'm not the kind of people you're looking for.

I guess I might check back eventually just to see if I've been formally banned or what, but aside from that I'm done with this.

Fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you you're cool fuck you I'm out,
Fifthfiend

[shiney]

*sighs*

The original announcement pushed about every button I personally have that can be pushed, but I figured, well, I should at least see what you guys had to say as far as explanation, maybe the situation wasn't exactly what it had seemed at first. All I can say is, well, so much for the benefit of the doubt. So, here's my response, and sod civility, cause that was thrown out the window from the get-go.

Well, i tried being civil, and people weren't listening.

You know, I could deal with the ban, but what I won't deal with is the constant stream of crap you two have been spouting since you announced it, which frankly is the about the biggest bunch of condescending, arrogant know-nothingist BS and ignorant self-justification I've ever heard.

My saying we don't want political discussions? Would it have been better if I'd said election-year motivated partisan issues? Or stuff with the words democrat/republican? It was our intent to get rid of that sort of stuff, not absolutely every facet of political activity. I tried to explain, maybe it wasn't good enough. Fine, I'll accept it. I'm not the best at explaining things always but damnit, I tried, and when I started getting attacked with that crap from Bob's last post, yeah I lost my temper. What do you expect, me to act inhuman when I feel disrespected that I am being so thoroughly argued?

If you two are supposed to be authority figures in this community, you might try acting like it, instead of like my 10 year old cousin anytime somebody lets him be the banker in fucking Monopoly.

Yeah, real mature buddy. I wouldn't go so far as to call that fighting fire with fire, since we had made a decision and were trying to explain it, because from the start I had thought it was clear that it wasn't gonna be changed, though I was willing to explain myself further. When I did, it was discounted. I kept trying and trying, I mightnot have done the best job, but I kept being challenged again and again. I started out very civil if I do say so myself, but as I get tired of my authority being questioned, I get more irritated until I just close the fucker down as proven by my final post in the other thread.

-I'd like to know exactly what you guys mean by "political" and "politically motivated," because you still haven't bothered defining that. As far as thread closings, you've done Get Your Vote On (no brainer), anything to do with Iraq, and the F-9/11 thread. Meanwhile, you've left open Abortion, Virginia's Gay Marriage Act, Media Bias, and Pirate Act. I don't get what leads you guys to think those threads aren't political -- for God's sake, two of those deal expressly with current legislation!

Okay. Election issues, campaign issues, partisan issues, what side are you on, Iraq, F9/11, Moore in general, all the crap that is so ubiquitous that you can't even go to a goddamn webcomic forum without seeing thread upon thread about it. I don't mind discussions about law because those are at least "what do you think about this law" rather than "what do you think about this guy" which generally tends to end up being, forget him, I support the other guy.

The only way I see the Iraq discussion being different from abortion is if you are somehow under the impression that while abortion is a relevant issue on which people wish to their deeply held convictions, whereas one's stated opinion on the war and desire to discuss it are tied inextricably to some ineffable love/hatred of George W Bush.

More or less. You can love or hate abortion without being tied to republican or democrat. There are conservative democrats, liberal republicans. Abortion can be about morals, personal convictions, without being about right wing fundamentalism. In fact politics itself isn't really that much mentioned in the abortion threads. Whereas in the Iraq threads, it's right there in your face with the people hwo support Bush and those who don't.

Censorship's fine and well, but what the fuck do you expect people to do when you haven't actually told us what we're not supposed to say? Stalin was less fucking obtuse.

I've been trying, but it's tough to explain one's mind because my interpretation would be different either way. The way I view things and the way others wouldn't mesh and there would be upset. Much like this.

-You guys maybe want to explain what you mean by "spewing propaganda"? I mean what, like citing fucking facts and information from reputable news sources that are relevant to the discussion? I guess it's easier to call everything "propaganda" than ever having to fucking read anything. And incidentally, when Mashirosen's posting shit from goddamn Prevention.com, how in fuck's name is that not pro-abortion propaganda by whatever fucking insane definition you're using?

Many articles that are posted, these fact-filled articles, invariably lean left or right. Point-counterpoint perhaps, but when assailed from all angles by half the story, it gets old.

And seriously, Shiney -- it's propAganda, if you're going to spout off about it this goddamn much, get it goddamn right.

Oh, thanks. Hey, that's one way to get your point taken seriously, be directly insulting.

-Not that I'm not grateful for the timely little lesson on the existence of the Google search engine, but it's just possible those of us who have an insatiable appetite for knowing what the fuck we're talking about already know where to go for politics-only discussion.

I didn't mean that to insult anyone, and it's really petty for you to insinuate that I did. It's possible I did that because I actually wanted to save you guys some time or something, and not fucking insult your intelligence.

Thing is, most all-politics forums end up being not even preaching to the choir so much as preaching to a bunch of would-be preachers, and most mainly non-political forums that also try to have 'serious discussion' mostly consist of the same ignorant-ass platitudes I can get from Cokie Roberts on the Today show.

The discussion thing here was good because there's a decent cross-section of opinions, from people who actually like paying attention to things and backing up their opinions with facts -- whoops, "propaganda".

-Try getting your goddamn story straight, would you?

Yknow, when I said propaganda is being spewed, I said nationwide and stuff...I could have made it more clear, I guess. You guys don't necessarily spew all the propaganda, but it does get repeated often enough. Or rhetoric if you will, I don't know what you want to call it. The propaganda is all over the nation and it's getting tiresome.

So it's inspired by your, Kurosen, and Mashirosen's "personal feelings," whoopity-doo. And the only thing you guys seem interested in saving is the spotless perfection of your beatiful minds. I don't know, this probably qualifies as "politically motivated," but there's a great quote about destroying the village in order to save it you pricks might want to look up sometime.

Let's face it, Brian doesn't need this forum at all. Would it have been better to destroy the village entirely, by closing the whole discussion forum? Or cordon off the area we saw as burning until we can get it under control? If this is how heated some people got when faced with a decision or opinion they didn't like, what happens when it happens in some thread about politics? Better that you hate me, as requested, than that you hate other members. This way it's all me and there doesn't have to be anyone being the bigger man and walking away in possible future threads.

-You know, if you'd announced that decision by saying "no more religion discussion because we just can't fucking stand Jesus and by the way, the Koran is a bunch of propaganda, here's some random religious webpage for you now fuck off," it's just possible some strong feelings might possibly result. Possibly. So, y'know, maybe try 'wrapping your head around' that one.

The point was, opinions began getting inflamed. We saw the same warning signs now as we had then. Perhaps you weren't around for that one, I don't know. But we didn't want it to get to a problem point, and rather wait and take a risk of stupid arguments happening, we cut it off right away. And not permanently! Moratorium. Not complete permanent disallowing forever.

[shiney]

Double-post due to size of post.

-Pot motherfucking Kettle. Being a child you've got nailed, and there's no kind of cynical worse than someone can't be bothered to so much as listen to a viewpoint outside their own Goddamn experience.

I specifically said we weren't going to change our minds, and yet still the whining increased. Pot motherfucking kettle? Being a child? I made a decision and was offhandedly hoping that maybe it would be accepted if I tried to explain myself. In trying, and accepted not doing the best job, I was finally in the end just basically insulted. Indirectly, but anyone could see it, right out there on the page. So I got upset. Is that childish? If that had been the first instance of disagreement or what have you I probably would have been fine. After being challenged post after post, while I understand that maybe you all feel pretty strongly about it, I felt completely disrespected as a member of the leadership here. I didn't WANT to pull the 'Golden Rule' but it's like my fucking hand was forced. I made reference to it in the beginning. I said, we're not going to change our minds. It isn't always the best way to go about things but it is the way it was done this time. In the end, I just had to outright say it because apparently nothing in my explanations were good enough. I'm sorry for that. At least I tried, and I didn't devolve into sheer mockery.

Lycanthrope and Muffin Mage, thank you. You guys get the point.

-What, you mean that the purpose of this forum is to find a bunch of people willing to call you "almighty"? Fuck that. And as far as this goes --


A moratorium isn't permanent people. Your making a mountain out of a mole hill.

-- again, try getting your story straight, because well, I'm sure as hell not the one saying --

In a very real way this is saving the discussion forum entirely.

-- which sounds to me like you're the ones making a mountain, out of something that smells way worse than a damn molehill.
[/quote]
The forum wasn't going to be closed solely because of politics. It was going to be closed altogether. With the removal of political arguments, debates, discussions, whatever, there was at least a reason for the boss to keep it open. But instead of letting it be, saying well that sucks, let's see what we can do to work with it, you are in fact calling the kettle black and ignoring our viewpoint as well. One that we implicitly tried to explain. But it's never good enough, right?

Hey Brian Clevinger -- your moderators are being dicks, and if you back them up, you're a dick too.

There, Shiney, you happy now?

I don't even know why you had to go there. You're taking everything I said out of context. Happens a lot when a person is furious so I guess I can understand.

Look, stop acting like you assholes are somehow above the rest of us. You're a bunch of college-age-plus fuckwits same as me, and the ability to run a fucking webcomic forum doesn't give you some kind of Goddamn monopoly on self-righteousness.

You probably could have said you just don't enjoy political discussion without acting like everybody who does has some kind of fucking mental illness. Nobody knew there was a problem until you jackasses said so, and maybe if you hadn't been dicks about saying so, that would have been the end of it.

You want to be ignorant, fine, but I swear, you guys just clutch that ignorance to your breast like it's some kind of treasure, and then strut about displaying it around like some kind of fucking badge of honor and license to look down on anybody who actually knows shit about shit.

So our position to declare a moratorium on topics is not good enough? Who the fuck can say no to something then, the goddamn internet police? You're calling US self-righteous and then directly attacking us constantly, when we never did such to you? We didn't suggest that you are all mentally ill, we didn't fucking say you're all retarded inbreds with eleven toes, and we're certainly not being ignorant. This whole, saying we're acting like jackasses, seems to be a fucking temper tantrum because oh no, a toy got put in the closet. You're taking everything I said, twisting it to make me seem like the world's biggest prick, when my only fault is my explanation didn't measure up to your fucking standards. If I had done better would we even be here? Should I show weakness and back down? Or wait, humility right? And then the next time something like this happens, I have to explain why I wouldn't back down that time but I did this time?

I didn't look down on you people. Get your head out of your ass. And don't criticize me for saying that either, cause it's the whole tone of your entire post. Pot calling the kettle black indeed.

Done and done. I like the posters on this forum, and it was nice having something to do while I'm stuck in the middle of nowhere all summer, but if it means putting up with mods who want to live in some insulated fantasy world where their beliefs are as the writ of God and the mere possibility that they themselves might just possibly be the assholes is inconcievable, then screw it. If this is the kind of behavior people are expected to put up with here, then clearly I'm not the kind of people you're looking for.

I guess I might check back eventually just to see if I've been formally banned or what, but aside from that I'm done with this.

Fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you fuck you you're cool fuck you I'm out,
Fifthfiend

I liked you too. I remember sending you a PM once in which I even said I respect you, your dry wit and well thought-out, intelligent posts. That fifthfiend was a very, very different one from the person posting here today. I'm oh-so-sorry that our decision wasn't to your omnipotent liking, but we'd accepted that from the get-go. I was expecting some backlash, but this amount is just fucking ridiculous. Who's beliefs are the writ of god? Like I said many times in this post, I tried to explain my position. I'm accepting I failed in that regard. But are you even accepting that? No, you're painting a portrait of me as some hyper-insensitive fat bastard, taking food from needy people so I can gain an extra couple of pounds. Like I am some otherworldly fucker who doesn't give a flying fuck about what anyone thinks.

If that were the case I would have said "this decision is final and don't even bother questioning me because I won't listen lalalalalalalalalala I can't hear you".

At least I tried. A hell of a lot better than many, many other places.

[Mashirosen]

I'd love to know where all this hostility towards me on this subject is coming from, since all I've said was that we made this decision for the same reason we decided not to allow religious discussions, that one versus thread is enough, that this is a temporary measure in any case, and that ultimately, I think there's very little point in political discussion if it's going to lead to partisan sniping instead of articulation of thought, which, given the intensity of the upcoming election, I have no doubt it will. Not being able to see much to take umbrage with here, although if there is, I'm awful sorry about it. If I've done something that offended you outside this context, I wish you would have taken the time to PM me about it instead of apparently storing it up until you could use it as fuel to work yourself into an irrational tizzy about something completely unrelated.

Just for the record? I didn't know a thing about this until I saw Shiney's first post about it here, and asked Brian about it. I didn't have a hand in making the decision at all, but I was very much in agreement with it -- the idea came as a relief.

Moving onto the subject of arrogance, what else can it be called when you leap to conclusions about us and our political interests outside of a decision made on a webcomic forum? You don't know anything about any of us outside of this, and deciding that we cherish our Barbara Bush-like "beautiful minds" on the subject as a whole because we don't want to deal with it here is really just too much. I don't feel the need to defend my level of political awareness to you, but put it this way, I read most of the blogs you linked to in the Sources thread well before you did so, and a good handful of others besides. Has it occurred to you at all that possibly this decision came from an oversaturation with political issues, in what looks to be one of the most intense election years in recent memory? In a country where the divide between left and right seems to be growing larger, more hostile, and more pervasive even of everyday life every day? There comes a time when a person wants to get the hell away from it all, even just for a little while, and I don't think that's so unreasonable, or a symptom of cherishing one's ignorance.

And no, contrary to what another poster suggested, for a mod it's not just a thing of "oh, well, I just won't read those threads, then" -- it can't be, for obvious reasons. We have to look at this thing on just about a once-daily basis, sometimes less, sometimes more. Is it really that unreasonable that maybe we don't want to have to deal with increasingly intense partisan scrapping every day that brings us closer to the election and are cutting any such thing off at the source?

I think maybe Shiney could've been a little more tactful in talking about all this, but I know I don't have any room to talk there, and I know a lot of what he's said was in, y'know, a joking spirit. But since that didn't come across for a lot of you, I think his original intent has gotten lost in all this, so maybe someone should bring it up and clarify it. I don't think the idea was to ban all political discussion of any stripe whatsoever -- as you point out, fifthfiend, how can you really decide which issues are political and which aren't?

What Shiney meant was that, for the time being, we want to put the kibosh on discussion of the upcoming US election and issues relating directly to it, because it's already all around us, and because we don't want the left-right clash starting up here. It's always been really encouraging to me that we have so many posters scattered all over the place on the political spectrum, who manage to talk about their different perspectives with what is really an eye-popping relative lack of animosity compared to a lot of more "grown-up" forums. It doesn't seem so far-fetched to expect that all the sunshine-lollipops-and-rainbows might start to get a little strained as things really heat up towards November, though, and it seems reasonable to want to avoid that kind of thing completely if we can at all.

I really, really don't see what's so objectionable about this idea. It does look like we underestimated how devoted y'all really are to the Discussion section, but we figured you probably already had plenty of other places to go if you wanted to avoid our rules. And it's totally understandable that you're kind of disappointed that you won't get to talk about all this stuff here, with everyone you already know and (however begrudgingly) respect. But at the same time, do you really not get where we're coming from on this? :\ Even if you disagree with it?

And seriousness aside:

but if it means putting up with mods who want to live in some insulated fantasy world where their beliefs are as the writ of God and the mere possibility that they themselves might just possibly be the assholes is inconcievable, then screw it.

You've been here how long and this is news to you?

And incidentally, when Mashirosen's posting shit from goddamn Prevention.com, how in fuck's name is that not pro-abortion propaganda by whatever fucking insane definition you're using?

I would expect it's because goddamn Prevention.com is the web extension of a generalized women's health magazine more concerned with weight-loss and nutrition than it is with being a pro-choice mouthpiece. Fuck fuck shit shit bitch ass cock fuck fuck.

Edited to add: I'm opening this back up because it's only fair that fifthfiend should be able to reply if/when he checks up on this thread, and because I want to see if other posters still have a problem with this now that we've explained things more clearly.

[Kurosen]

No offense, fifth (though I appreciate that my entire handpicked staff has been insulted by you), but we don't need your permission to act.

When a mod wants to do something that will have an effect on the boards, he or she comes to me and we talk about it for a while. These decisions do not spontaneously appear in the minds of their originators. They develop over time through experience. Things happen in this forum without your knowledge all the time. Do you get PMs every single time someone wants action taken or feels he's been mistreated or a board-affecting issue is seen rising on the horizon? 'Cause they do.

Things happen all over this forum, often in the background, and you're blissfully unaware of it all, because the moderators are doing their tough, thankless job. You are not allowed to openly challenge the moderators, not because we fear the light of your keen mind cutting a swath through our dark ignorance, but because we don't have the time or inclination to post eight pages of replies trying to explain a very simple decision to people unfamiliar with the history behind said decision, especially when half of those people won't understand or agree with it after all is said and done anyway. Plus, it pisses me off when the moderators take a lot of time to think about an issue from all sides, no matter how ridiculous some of those angles can be, before they bring it to me, then we try to find the most fair solution, then they enact it, and they get assaulted for doing their job. It's enough to know that the moderators act in the best interest of the forum, and that will not always include you specifically, Mr. Fiend.

Get over it.

The idea that the moderators are mad with power or warping board policy for their own agendas is just sad. This is a webcomic forum, not FOX News. If we banned people every time one of us disagreed with someone on a personal level, there'd be about eight people on this forum. The moderators' ability to keep the Personal out of the Moderating is partly why I chose them for the task.

Strongly political debates may wage on like crazy once again when the elections are over. Hell, we may even lift the ban prior to the elections. Just give us a break for a while. We're the one's that have to police every little perceived infraction, insult, or missive.

And the only thing you guys seem interested in saving is the spotless perfection of your beatiful minds.

I'm sure you consider yourself a very clever lad, I see you doing it in a lot of your posts, but part of being clever is knowing when you don't know what you're talking about. You are not a moderator, so you're out of the loop. I'm sure our decisions, made in a secluded mountain compound whereupon we meet on every anti-soltice in the calendar of Evil, seem facist. I assure you it's only because they are. We have no responsibility to be democratic here, as we are not taxing you and making decisions enforced by those taxes that will affect the quality of your life.

We want to keep things running as smoothly as possible around here. Just because you didn't see a problem doesn't mean there wasn't one. We don't like making people upset by our decisions, but it's a lesser evil than letting people be upset by our inaction.

[Kardin]

Hoo boy.

I'm not a mod on this forum, nor am I about to make a tedious, long-winded, swearing excessive, etc. post. I am (or rather was) the admin of a forum on gamespot. Personal forums, they're pretty damn cool.

Except for all the n00bs.

It was flooded with morons and idiots.

I had to make the rules more strict.

I could no longer permit religious discussion or somebody would defend Hitler and a huge arguement would come up.

People were pissed.

Language was becoming abundant. It had to stop, it was driving away the more intelligent users.

I had to install a language filter.

People got even more pissed.

Then came the 1337 and illiteracy, both of which I hate.

It had to go.

Over 100 users were banned.

It was the last straw.

My mailbox and forum filled up with hate messages.

I had to destroy the forum.

What I''m saying is that a mod/admin's job is hard enough, and things like THAT are the last thing they need.

[Meister]

First of all, I'm rather neutral about this issue as well as about the election year. I don't use the discussion forum much either, but I'll just throw in my two cents... as an outside point of view, one might say.

To some of us the whole issue seems to have reeked of censorship. I thought so, too, at least for a moment, but upon reflection, and especially on further explanation, your decision is indeed understandable; not necessarily something I, for example, would have done, but certainly understandable. Then again, I'm no expert on these issues. If you [the mods] say you saw signs for the whole discussion descending into religious discussion-like flamewars, I believe you; after all, you've been around long enough to know.

It's kinda sad, though, that apparently a (too) violent outburst was needed to lure out the aforementioned further explanation.

Originally Posted by shiney

Would it have been better if I'd said election-year motivated partisan issues?

Actually, yes. Your original post came over as, let's say, a little vague to me. I didn't really know what to make of it. For example: Could one still discuss, say, the level of surveillance in today's society? Since some of it has directly to do with the Bush administration (Patriot Act), one could argue that it was forbidden. Things being the way they are now, I figure one could discuss it so long as no one spews out "Kerry would do that so much better vote for him!" If I'm mistaken there, let me know.

(In any case, I'm going to wait a while before creating such a thread. Only partly because I'm lazy.)

And SWB was right, too. You can hardly discuss any important matter of our daily lifes without coming across politics. That's why it would have been important to know exactly what areas we weren't allowed to touch from the start. It is possible, and probable, that some people weren't reading the original post properly and therefore didn't get all of it (starting, obviously, with the meaning of the word "moratorium"), but it really, really is prone to misunderstandings.

(The way Bob was replied to wasn't exactly high quality discussion material in my book either, quite frankly. I'm not gonna dwell on this since tempers were pretty heated all around, but I think you all know what I'm talking about.)

Another thing that irked me was this.

Originally Posted by shiney

I understand that you all enjoy political discussions here, but this is a forum for a webcomic, and there are many far more apt places for a discussion of political nature.

Fair enough, but it came as a surprise that the forum of an intelligent comic that has in the past been known to include its fair amount of stabs at certain political leaders itself would all of a sudden go so "censory." Okay, as we know now, that was sort of a misunderstanding, but again would have merited further explanation.

... well, that's all I make of it. The gist of it, as I see it, is that things could have gone smoother on both sides (and isn't it weird that there's the notion of "sides" suddenly?), but that's hardly of importance now. Credit to fifthfiend, since he had the balls to stand up and deliver his opinion in a very heated atmosphere, even if the writing style didn't help too much in cooling it down. Chill man, hard as it may be. And shiney, your quotes just came in handy and I didn't mean to pick on you or anything, kay?

Dammit. This post killed my Scotch buzz.

[Sky Warrior Bob]

I'll get into this, and I have calmed down a bit so no cringing...

Just yet.

First of all, I'm sorry to say, but I found Shiney's initial Political Moratorium post somewhat insulting. He suggested that political discussions can be carried out any ol' place and I picked up the underlying suggestion of a low opinion of politics in general.

His & Mash's posts didn't help me calm down much either, because they really lacked any hint of sympathy towards the decision. The fact that this really came out of left field, with no fair warning of the rule change was equally devasting.

It doesn't help matters that, at least for me, the forums have been getting blander as of late. I know it being the summer has a lot to do with it, but posts have strayed towards gush-fests of Brian's talent, and stupid favorite character threads (and similar meaningless nonsense). Politics was an item of interest to me that kept me posting to these forums, and looking for the occasional odd posting of interest.

And Shiney, you earlier statement of not explaining what you meant by no politics is what lead to that last post by myself. I was thinking of everything and anything that would be effected by this new decision, and really was lamenting the loss.

Sky Warrior Bob

[Magic E-Mail Chicken]

Hey, if you make the page, you make the rules, and if you give the MODs power over them, then all people can do is shut up and accept things.

[Kardin]

Originally Posted by Mashirosen

Fuck fuck shit shit bitch ass cock fuck fuck.

If you were trying to imitate fifthfiend, and I'm fairly certain you are, I'm fairly certain you could've taken a slightly more mature course of action.