Pokemon Umbral Discussion 25: Pokegeddon Returns

[Menarker]

Engineer's work differently I think. It's an aura, and not so much a "stick and apply enchantment". If Mollesk tried to use Power Trick while being in a Defense boost like Mirror's, the boost to attack (leaving only his base defense as his attack) would disappear because it never actually stayed "stuck" to Mollesk as a defense boost. Mollesk will continue to have a defense boost due to the aura, but using the base attack stat that was swapped instead.
Otherwise, I would send Mollesk out, have a +4 boost to Defence due to his Simple Nature, Power Trick so that boost applies to his attack, while his new defence got boosted by 4 too. (I doubt you'd approve of that)

With buff items, first there is a limited supply of items. Too many of them and you don't have revive or restore items to recover from the damage that one takes. Also, items by far only have 1 stage boosts. We don't even have 2 stage boost items (and the foes have 3 stage versions combined with Full Restore as a comparision) We'd need Dormond to get 2 stage boosts, and even then, that's pretty low power considering it takes up item slots. If someone intends to use a plan that rely on those items, he/she should be rewarded for using them, considering the risk of running low on healing items.
As for mentioning Lola's tech, Psych Up doesn't consider how many people have the buff. It only cares about the buffs on the one single person and how high it is. Spreading it around does no better than applying it on one person. Psych Up/Baton Pass works when the buffs are focused hard on a single target.

[Dracorion]

So basically, we should only have Psych Up give half the boost when someone has Belly Drum.

Listen dude, couple Dormond's ability with your Mollesk's Simple ability. And no, they shouldn't be rewarded. I thought you preferred winning by using a strategy other than "kill them until their die". Which obscene Psych Up-induced boosts would be, except for taking a turn to buff up.

[Menarker]

Technically, it would probably take the several turns needed to buff up in the process before Psych Up is used. Also, the other main issue with Psych Up at the time was that it was used by the Pokebrids who knew it, and not by pokemons who invested in a move slot for it.

Dormond, as much as I like his character, is not that good a choice for a healer. He encourages the use of buff items, when healing items tend to be the more cruical items required that we need to stock up on with a party as big as ours. Yes, combining him with Mollesk is a combo of sort, but when compared to benefit of the party in general, choosing him is not as effective as Rachel for this mission for example or Lola or Chizuru for their most effective healing purpose.

Also, you're misunderstanding the part of Renny's tactic. All our battles is about "Kill them until they die or flee" to a certain extent. Pokemon battles ultimately have to end with knocking someone out. How is it done is different from trainers to trainers. Some like you and Charlotte so far, use powerful moves right off the bat so the opposing foes don't get time to react fast or buff (mainly useful for glass cannons and foes that need time to buff up attack or some sort of set up. Especially if your team is varied enough to have good type coverage) Others might use a slightly delayed version by buffing up so they can deal with the big-brutes which have power and defence and such, sacrificing speed for survival and reliablility. Some uses status effects. Some use trapping (Spikes, Stealth Rock) and there are other stuff too. Renny has a few of most of these. Swampert is straight out fighter for the most part. Magnezone too although with a bit of paralysis. Togekiss offers support and has flinching with a bit of power. Shaymin does likewise. Umbreon is based on status and support. Mollesk can passably function as an attacker, but his main function is the Buff-Brute, where he can use defence/special defence to lower attacks to a scratch, use Recover when things go bad, and attack powerfully when the situation looks right, with Togekiss to use Follow Me or Umbreon's Confuse ray to muck up their attacks, reducing their chance of actually hitting him. Renny exercises a sort of variety, and not all of them function in the same way. Variety in type. Variety in support. Variety in tactics. That sort of thing.

[Dracorion]

You can also carry your own items. And you can use one as a free action if you only have one pokemon on the field.

[Menarker]

Well, in the big battle during Renny's Sidequest, all the items were healing stuff, and we still ran out. If some of them were buff items, chances are the party could have lost. (And that's taking the fact that the Psych Up tactic was used then). I'm trying to make a point that choosing to invest in buff items means sacrificing Healing items. Granted, with Renny's new ability, it's not as big a sacrifice as it was before, but it's still a big deal to think about how to proportion how many of each.

With items, a trainer/slayer can use them without using up a moveslot or taking up their action (Trainers can do one attack if using one). But they are limited in supply

Buffs from a move are unlimited therotically, but only apply to that pokemon normally, require a moveslot for that specific buff, another move if you want to transfer it over, don't get to attack that turn if you use it, and risk losing it all if you get knocked out before you can use the benefits of the buffs.

It's a sort of balancing which is suitable for the situation and which didn't. When I did it at Renny's Party, the end result was that Snorlax and Togekiss got knocked out, and two of the opponent's foes got knocked out. Dormond got the buff as well. So the actual advantage was average at best. Both side lost the same number of pokemons, and the only other advantage was that Dormond still had the buff. If Snorlax actually managed to last longer, it would have been better, but he was ganged up, and the end result was that the entire combo left the party only slightly better off than they were before.

[Dracorion]

Clearly, you didn't play it defensively enough.

If Psych Up isn't worth using like you seem to be saying, then why do you want to use it?

[Menarker]

It's a risk that was made. I still came out ahead, but things could have gotten much worse. (Also, the benefit of Dormond's power boost was on your side because I sent him your way. If he stayed in my location, I probably would have seen a bigger reward.)

Also, like you said, it wasn't defensive at the time. The previous attempt was a fast risky powerful boost meant to not only knock down some trouble pokemons, but also shoot down their morale gauge. (Now that I think of it, there was additional rewards of making them flee faster due to that, but it required care and building up on) Snorlax attack stat DID go up, but its defense didn't. So it was a high chance that he would be knocked out sooner if not later (mainly because foes would jump at the chance to off him)

This time, Defense is being amped up (at first anyhow). Knocking Mollesk will be damn difficult to achieve and thus the benefits will last longer, even after using Power Trick. Same after using Psych Up with Umbreon (The second strongest defensive powerhouse). The defensive boost will help ensure that the benefits last longer and that the eventual rewards be plentiful if I watch my steps carefully.

[Dracorion]

Wouldn't Mollesk's Defense be reduced to 100? If that's not enough Attack, I can't see why it'd suddenly be enough Defense.

Mollesk would get one attack before being assraped.

[Menarker]

Attached to a 75 power move that is further weakened to 75% of its power due to the rules of multi-pokemon battles, 100 Attack isn't that good.

100 Defence however is akin to the defence of Blastoise, Palkia, Slaking and other powerhouses.
Plus, Mollesk has:
High Hitpoints (118, which is absurdly high. Arceus only has 120 and there are few pokemons that hit hitpoints that high without sacrificing other stats. Only 14 evolved pokemons that exist in the game has hitpoint stat above 118.)
Recover to restore half its hitpoints (and as mentioned above, it has tons)
Renny with either the item spread ability or the protect ability.
A fellow pokemon with Follow Me.
The defender item which let it cast Recover for free every 3 turns.
It can double its defence again after Power Trick.

Basically, Attack/Special Attack NEEDS to scale much higher because it has to compete with both the DEF/SDEF AND the hitpoint stat at the same time. Also a pokemon can only attack once a turn, but in a group battle like this RP, a pokemon can be hit multiple times. High hitpoints and defence help mitigate this.
Mollesk would have innately HIGH Special defence and hitpoints, and his defence, even after lowering it with power Trick is still almost as high as the most respected legendary, Arecus.

*Goes to grab a video...*

[Dracorion]

And you don't think that's wrong.

Anyway, didn't you say you'd be using Psych Up with Umbreon? So you'd get a choice of, A) having two powerhouses, or B) have Togekiss use Follow Me.

You said before that Mollesk's Defense and Sp. Def would be raised to 900 with two turns of Cosmic Power. Which is wrong. It'd only get 690. You could use Cosmic Power for three turns straight and then use Power Trick as your extra move, though. But I'd probably get pissed at you spending yet another turn not attacking.

Also, I'm pretty sure Umbreon's Defense would be reduced as well if it uses Psych Up. Since, y'know, Psych Up copies debuffs and Mollesk's Defense going from 690 to 100 is a pretty big debuff. If we treat it like Umbreon got two +2 stage defense boosts and then used Power Trick, it's Defense would be reduced to 65, which is as much as Snorlax had and you know how that turned out.

So pokemon can only attack once a turn and can be attacked themselves several times. That's why you get allies. I don't think Renny's the kind of guy that would use the team as meatshields while he builds himself into a one-man army.