Pokemon Umbral Discussion 37: You Don't Want To Enter This Thread

[Dracorion]

I don't know if we have to keep the title contained to two words. But I am going to try to keep it that way with my suggestions.

[Geminex]

I would probably object to this simply because Renny as I'm building him is not primarily a pokemon trainer later on if we judge using upgrade charts, but he'd use all his abilities, directly fighting or pokemon fighting as much as feasible.

Eh, fair enough. But really, that's the best think I can think of. I think whatever system we come up with should be
a) Simple
b) Applicable to every possible combination of classes
c) Grant the same amount of "power" to every possible combination of classes
d) At least mildly logical.

Our current model really doesn't fulfill many of those criteria. But hey, keep suggesting stuff. We'll find some way to do it, and we still have a few missions. I'm not desperate to find something.
What does bug me... is this:

Pokemon Breeder 1 (6 levels of Pokemon Trainer)
Pokebrid 1 (1 level of Pokebrid)
Overblade 3 (8 levels of Slayer)

Seriously, man? Overblade 3? Honestly?
How come? It's more or less completely out-of-character. More than half his levels into Slayer, that really presents a major, major shift. How come?

As for the "Red Mage" thing...
There's two ways of interpreting that. On one hand there's the way that's entirely in keeping with declaring one's character "quite evocative of the RP" and interpreting threats as attention. It involves incredible versatility, of which I actually think there's minimal evidence.

On the other hand there's just the implication that you like to cheat a lot. Which do you think it is?

Drac... Full demon? Hokaaay...
I'd prefer if you didn't take that course, really. Partly cause we're gonna need to justify it somehow (and you can't use the justification I'll use), partly because I think you could really use the Slayer levels. Slayer 1? 3 Weapons, no accessories? Not much help.

And finally, Trainer actions: Their purpose was to be thematic-though-not-very-useful. If we upgrade the degree to which they actually contribute, I'd really find it fair if that it should cost an upgrade. Or, well, not a full upgrade, but that it be given to them at level-up, in exchange for something else.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Seriously, man? Overblade 3? Honestly?
How come? It's more or less completely out-of-character. More than half his levels into Slayer, that really presents a major, major shift. How come?

As for the "Red Mage" thing...
There's two ways of interpreting that. On one hand there's the way that's entirely in keeping with declaring one's character "quite evocative of the RP" and interpreting threats as attention. It involves incredible versatility, of which I actually think there's minimal evidence.

On the other hand there's just the implication that you like to cheat a lot. Which do you think it is?

It did cross my mind that Menarker was just min-maxing (and by cross my mind I mean, what else could he possibly have been doing?). But what the hell, right? We can't stop him, and if it turns out overpowered we'll nerf his ass when the time comes.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Drac... Full demon? Hokaaay...
I'd prefer if you didn't take that course, really. Partly cause we're gonna need to justify it somehow (and you can't use the justification I'll use), partly because I think you could really use the Slayer levels. Slayer 1? 3 Weapons, no accessories? Not much help.

Well, see.

I'm pretty set on giving Pierce Breeder level 2. Which leaves him eight levels of whatever. He could get Demon Half 5 and Slayer 3. Ruin-type weapon and armor and accessories are nice and all, but the really good Slayer upgrades come at level 4 (six weapons and STAB).

I suppose I could at least get Slayer 2 and one level of Full Demon. Or I could get Slayer 4 and Demon Half 4, except I'd really like to max Demon Half.

About accessories, has Impact even used them at all this mission? They're supposed to be free the first time, only costing 50 RPs to recharge after being used.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And finally, Trainer actions: Their purpose was to be thematic-though-not-very-useful. If we upgrade the degree to which they actually contribute, I'd really find it fair if that it should cost an upgrade. Or, well, not a full upgrade, but that it be given to them at level-up, in exchange for something else.

Like I said. Yes, they're supposed to be thematic-but-not-very-useful. But as they are now, they are completely useless. We just want to buff them up a small bit so that they can climb up to not-very-useful.


Anyway, I take it you're okay with Sophia's Shock Trooper skill nullifying Rage gain and deducting it from the enemy, so I can put her bio next to Pierce's and make it official?

[Geminex]

Like I said. Yes, they're supposed to be thematic-but-not-very-useful. But as they are now, they are completely useless. We just want to buff them up a small bit so that they can climb up to not-very-useful.


Anyway, I take it you're okay with Sophia's Shock Trooper skill nullifying Rage gain and deducting it from the enemy, so I can put her bio next to Pierce's and make it official?

Oh very well. To both of those. Worst case, we can add a rage cost to the Trainer actions.

And Shock Trooper, sure. Not all that much stronger than Harliette, weaker even, depending on the situation.

And sure he’s used Accessories this mission. Last battle. He had two Adrenal boosts, he buffed himself to +2 in all stats as soon as pokegeddon showed up. Mind you, he died to Wildfire soon after, but still. He totally used them.
Though I don’t suppose any of you thought it might be useful to buff him again this battle? No? So he's been fighting with two unused Adrenal boosts hanging from his belt?
...
Goddammit, guys.

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

And sure he’s used Accessories this mission. Last battle. He had two Adrenal boosts, he buffed himself to +2 in all stats as soon as pokegeddon showed up. Mind you, he died to Wildfire soon after, but still. He totally used them.

Actually, Adrenaline Surges don't stack.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Though I don’t suppose any of you thought it might be useful to buff him again this battle? No? So he's been fighting with two unused Adrenal boosts hanging from his belt?
...
Goddammit, guys.

We did it on purpose.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

Seriously, man? Overblade 3? Honestly?
How come? It's more or less completely out-of-character. More than half his levels into Slayer, that really presents a major, major shift. How come?

I already explained this.

"If anything, you could say that as Renny is growing up, he is hiding behind his pokemons less and less (out of actually having the ability to contribute on his own merits) but still trust them to defend him and his loved ones. And no, I'm not having him go Half-Demon at all. I'll leave that to Pierce/Impact and anyone else."

I always intended that Renny would go slayer at some point and fight alongside his pokemon like a Battle Master. Remember when I asked you to have a little section of the RP stating that Impact has trained Renny a little in being a Slayer? Was working toward that RP wise.

Yes, I originally intended that Renny would have more levels in Pokemon Breeder as an end result, but still have quite a few levels in Slayers/Overblade. Then AB said we'd only have 15 levels of upgrades total. So, naturally I have to trim things down a bit to what is "effective", while still keeping to my roleplay as much as possible (otherwise, I'd probably max Overblade)

Renny, as is now, has truly valiant and noble thoughts and intention, but he is prone to fear at times. (Screamed his head off at zombies during second mission and is more than a little worried with the implication that snipers could attack him directly.) Naturally, he is justified in feeling scared since he's very young and his only skillset is support and being a trainer and has no actual manner of self defense. Plus, he had considered quitting before due to the danger, plus that it is hurting his pokemons (Togekiss being dominated and Lasered!) However, the things that Faynoc does is truly horrific and unforgivable. Thus in the interest of fending for himself and having less reason to fear anything, while being able to protect his friends (PCs/NPCs/Pokemons) and stop Faynoc and people like him, he'd do well to improve himself.

As for the "Red Mage" thing...
There's two ways of interpreting that. On one hand there's the way that's entirely in keeping with declaring one's character "quite evocative of the RP" and interpreting threats as attention. It involves incredible versatility, of which I actually think there's minimal evidence.

On the other hand there's just the implication that you like to cheat a lot. Which do you think it is?

I was thinking more of the Final Fantasy's perception that a Red Mage is a combination of a Fighter (Pokesoldier) and Mage (Legion Mage) in terms of the naming scheme. Looking at TVtropes though, a Red Mage is more classified by having multiple schools of magic. A character who studies magic AND fight with weapons or so is usually classified as a sort of Magic Knight. (Although the variation that tend to cast healing or buff spells is more referred to as a Church Militant ala a Paladin)

[Dracorion]

Think of it this way, Menarker.

If Renny only goes Breeder 1, and Pierce goes Breeder 2, that means Pierce would have a stronger bond with his pokemon than Renny.

Originally Posted by Menarker

stuff

I know what Geminex has to say about this.

It'll be fun to watch.

Originally Posted by Menarker

I was thinking more of the Final Fantasy's perception that a Red Mage is a combination of a Fighter (Pokesoldier) and Mage (Legion Mage) in terms of the naming scheme. Looking at TVtropes though, a Red Mage is more classified by having multiple schools of magic. A character who studies magic AND fight with weapons or so is usually classified as a sort of Magic Knight. (Although the variation that tend to cast healing or buff spells is more referred to as a Church Militant ala a Paladin)

So Renny would be more of a Paladin, with a bit of Magic Knight.

Oh man, oh man, you know what's kinda sorta like a Paladin? Knight Templar.

Welp, that decides it. Renny is going to become the crazy Knight Templar of this RP. AB, make it happen.

[Menarker]

Hehe, you're ignoring that Renny errs way more toward Good. Knight Templars tend to lean way more toward law.

But hey, sounds like a nifty class title at any rate, even if Paladin suits Renny better.


As for Pierce and his pokemons, having a higher Breeder class doesn't mean that he bonds better with his pokemon (Can you imagine if Charlotte got Breeder 5?), but that their particular manner of bonding/training has brought out the pokemon's inner strength better. Meaning that when compared to Renny, Pierce has done better in bringing out more of the individual strength and motivation. Renny might be seen as slightly hampering their growth by being too coddling or protective. Whether Renny or Pierce cares for their pokemon more or in the same way is strictly in-character.
But yes, Pierce would be the better trainer in generally all cases (the other cases are those where you make tactical mistakes on stuff like Move Choices). Enjoy that victory.

[Dracorion]

Better yet, Pierce will be a better fighter than Renny too!

[Menarker]

Ok, now THAT is completely trolling without supporting evidence! ^,^

By the time we hit level 15, If Pierce gets Breeder 2, then Renny would have 9 classes of "Fighter" (8 Slayer and 1 Pokebrid) as opposed to Pierce's 8 levels of Demon or Slayer (However you mix it).

Mind you, in the interest of balance that Gem is promoting which I agreed to, you do realize that Demons just means more customization in their abilities and that demonhood doesn't automatically mean that you are improportionally stronger with equal or less ranks than someone who has more ranks as a strictly fighting class. As things stand, Renny would technically be the better fighter 1 on 1 (although you'd have powerful single hitting techniques with that Aura Blade and so).