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09-03-2010, 10:31 AM
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#51 |
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SOM3WH3R3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,606
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Fair enough. Go ahead.
... But I swear, if each and every one of you is gonna want to customize their NPC I will... I dunno. NERF THEM REALLY HARD? Use the Ffffffff-! tag in every post? Well anyway, don't. Or at least make sure they're sufficiently balanced beforehand if you do. Better too weak than too strong and all that, they'll end up balanced either way. |
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09-03-2010, 10:33 AM
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#52 | |
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OMG! WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW?
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,802
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I don't agree. Speed's main feature is about the clash between targets between their speed and your speed. Against bosses and speedfreaks, if you don't have a naturally high speed of your own, you won't be critting at all unless you're also packing crit moves. High speed is an insurance. If your speed is standard, or just a bit above standard, you can't rely on it all the time. I agree Speed should have more relevance... but not solely as THE crit stat, but with additional things like evasion or so. I think that Crit should NOT be a stat that is easy to max. With my system, speed pokemons and crit types are balanced in how they can reach 25% or 33% chance of crit. But reaching 50% becomes more of a milestone for both of them. (Also, speed pokemons still have a slight advantage in that they are acheiving crit while using moves that do not specialize in crit and thus have more freedom in their moves) What I'm trying to prevent is the demostrated example using your proposal where the speed types gain an incredible near constant 50% chance of critting... just for being sweepers (high power and speed, low defense) or speed freaks (high speed only). Let's take Renny's Shaymin or Charlotte's Aerodactyl. You think they should gain 50% crit on legendary moves like Seed Flare or AOE moves like Rock Slide? (I'm temporaily ignoring that Aerodactyl has access to Stone Edge and thus is a very fine example of a valid candidate for 50% crit chance.) I think 25% is the max that should be allowed on the scale for those who aren't taking measures to try to be more reliable crit users. You say that the existance of crit items make crit more important than speed, but speed items and abilities also exist especially in temporary boosts like X Speed, available by medics, but those would also boost destroyer/sniper evasion as opposed to making only crit boosts count for later. Boosting crit is only a single purpose mechanic. To boost crit. Speed can feasibly be used for evasion as proposed with evading snipers/destroyers. A single X Speed boosts the user's speed by 50%, which is quite a leap for anything with 100+ speed. I think that speed shouldn't get more of a boost in terms of crit because Crit is not supposed to be maximized at higher than 50% and even then not easily. However, if there was something else we could apply speed to, like evasion in general, I'd be willing to apply that. Crit is meant to be not all that frequent and is supposed to be a gamble in the first place. It's for all intent and purpose, the offense version of the non-existent "luck stat" Getting 50% crit should be difficult for those who aren't built for it. 25% JUST for being faster than your foe is 1/4 chance of succeeding. 33% chance for having a razor fang on top of that is even better. If on the off chance, you have a crit move and the razor fang and you lose out on the speed thing, you're still at that 33% level. (or 25% just for having the crit move, but if you're having a crit move, you're probably intending on trying to crit and thus holding razor fang) So, to sum up, I say no to giving more crit bonus for Speed, but I think Speed should gain other bonuses related to other mechanics. Proposed Crit rules to sum up: All attackers start at stage 1. The scale is Stage 1: 6.25% Stage 2: 12.5% Stage 3: 25% Stage 4: 33.3% Stage 5: 50% Having higher speed than the ones you're attacking gives you +2 stage boost. Attacking with a Improved Critical Hit move gives you a +2 stage boost. Items or abilities like Dire Hit, Super Luck or Focus Energy gives you +1 Stage Boost. You guys better not complain about Mollesk now! You realize crits bypass buffs to defense and all that! (Although naturally high defense is still active). Guaranteed 25% chance of critting Mollesk (due to his shitty speed) is quite huge! Last edited by Menarker; 09-03-2010 at 10:35 AM. |
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09-03-2010, 10:50 AM
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#53 | ||
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Moves Like Jagger, Kupo!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: To the south, a little to the left... Or to the right.
Posts: 4,910
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Elizabeth's finished! Standard Customized Conditional Upgrades Trainer Actions Persuade, Flirt and her Snagging chances might need some nerfing, but I think otherwise these are fine. Anyway, AB, I was thinking about my proposed Love status effect and I realize that it was still pretty useless. So I decided to remake it. Quote:
Also, what are the chances Snagballs have of inflicting status effects?
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Dracorion's dumbass color is Royal Blue. If you see that color, you better run the fuck away. Last edited by Dracorion; 09-03-2010 at 01:09 PM. |
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09-04-2010, 12:45 AM
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#54 |
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OMG! WHAT SHOULD I DO NOW?
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 3,802
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Ok, this one needs a bit of nerfing in my mind...
First, on a personal note. I doubt it'll ever happen, but on the off-chance she fights Renny's pokemon, I'm insisting that my anti-snag ability trumps any of her snagging abilities. It's so very specific to fighting against snaggers and domination, that I feel Renny's pokemon should trump in that regards. Secondly, the status effects of snagger balls are 100% sure to happen as far as I remember, making the later levels of snaggers powerful because of OHKO balls. (and making your upgrade to increase their chances not so useful) Because of that, THIS ability seems more powerful than it should: - Snagballs can be used to inflict status effects without direct damage on non-Pokemon units. You're basically able to OHKO any target with those balls, barring death immunity. Snaggers for all intent and purpose should be pretty well pokemon specific, but you're giving it the ability to OHKO ANYTHING for the cost of one ball, something that would make slayers envious. For that matter... how many snag balls do Snaggers have access to? Or do they take up item slots, which means they have up to 3 balls? (In which case, a better idea might be to increase your item carrying capacity or improve your balls so they inflict multiple statuses.) The RDPA armor seems quite random given how she has no slayer experience and seems to violate the rule of specialities. Getting a level 5 slayer ability without any prior level of slayer seems a bit much. I mean, she doesn't even have listed battle stats like pokebrids or slayers do and all her prior battle skills have been about pokemons. I'd reject this. Sweet Kiss is a name of an existing pokemon move btw. On the same topic, we're still discussing crits, and it's possible that it'll increase the crit stage of a pokemon by 1. I'm feeling tired, but that's what I have in mind off the top of my head... One thing I might propose, is that instead of adding SO MUCH success chance of proper snagging, you should probably have some abilities that improve their happiness and morale. Since they will attack you and join the enemy again if they get attacked too much. Stuff like being hit with super effective hits, critical hits, being ganged up, being hit by status affliction and not being treated. Being knocked out and revived and knocked out over and over would be NASTY to its mood. That sort of thing. EDIT: Would be nice to hear from Bard and Dante again, especially if they got upgrades of their own to propose. Last edited by Menarker; 09-04-2010 at 01:54 AM. |
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09-04-2010, 03:30 AM
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#55 |
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Don't Hate Me 'Cause I'm Moe
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Harmonial Sanctum
Posts: 6,798
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Trinity Universe is a very deep, silly, and energized game. Definitely a Nippon Ichi title.
I approve of Love's effects. But don't worry, Menarker. Snagballs have their own levels of balance. The more vicious the status effect, the smaller the chances of successful affliction. Let's go down a general list, shall we? - Poison: HP decreases slightly each turn. 100% chance of affliction. - BadPois: HP decreases in ever increasing increments each turn. 50% chance of affliction. - Paralysis: Pokemon may forfeit action. Paralysis is more successful when Pokemon has lower HP. 50% chance of affliction. - Sleep: Pokemon cannot take action. Adjacent units may forfeit attack to awaken Pokemon. Pokemon awakens if struck. 50% chance of affliction. - Confusion: Pokemon may attack itself or other allied units. 50% chance of affliction. - Frozen: Pokemon cannot take action. Small damage is dealt to the Pokemon each turn. Allied units can free the Pokemon by using a Fire type attack which deals no damage. 50% chance of affliction. - Death: Pokemon is instantly defeated. 25% chance of affliction. - Berserk: Pokemon can only use attack moves and deals 1.5x more damage to random targets. 50% chance of affliction. - Apathy: Pokemon will not follow orders. If Pokemon is part of a PokeCo-Op, PokeCo-Op cannot be used. 50% chance of affliction. - Exhaustion: Pokemon does not generate Rage and can randomly forfeit action. 25% chance of affliction. - Love: Pokemon seems to fight as though actually snagged. 25% chance of affliction. - Burn: Pokemon takes damage each turn and has ATT reduced by 50%. 50% chance of affliction. - Plasmaburn: Pokemon takes damage each turn, has ATT reduced by 50%, and may flinch. 25% chance of affliction. - DeepFreeze: Pokemon cannot take action and is damaged each turn. A critical hit will shatter the Pokemon, defeating it instantly. 25% chance of affliction. I noticed she has an upgrade that increases chances of status effects occuring. So, plus 10% on that rank. Snagballs are unlimited. But only one could be tossed per turn and it counts as the user's item use. In hindsight, I imagine the Love Snagball would resemble a woman's breast. If someone hit me in the forehead with a ball-shaped titty, I might be in love, too. Last edited by Astral Harmony; 09-04-2010 at 03:35 AM. |
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09-04-2010, 05:31 AM
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#56 |
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SOM3WH3R3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,606
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Sounds cool, that. I mean, what I see so far, she'd be able to deploy two pokemon, snag enemy pokemon, she'd have lots of reserves, plus quite a few second abilities and hold items. Not too much attack power, but a good disruptor.
AB's clarified how snag afflictions are gonna get nerfed, so, sure, why not. Though I'll trust you not to use the "second ability" stuff that Pierce and Liz are getting to break the game and/or universe. Also, same applies to custom items. They're all fine, as long as you don't make the actual items overpowered. But we all knew that. Her RDPA version doesn't seem very justified, but eh. If we can justify it in-character, and I'm sure we'll be able to, it's cool. Mind you, since battles won't usually take much more than 7 turns (maaaybe 10), she's gonna be fighting personally for quite a long time. But eh, it's a level 20 character. She gets to have lots of power, and being able to disrupt the enemy, stall them, and strike hard when she needs to, that works really well, I think. And speaking of her level... Menarker, Renny'll be a level 15 character, with 6 levels in breeder. Elizabeth will be a level 20, with 10 levels in Snagger. Whose ability do you think is gonna triumph? One more thing, Drac: Can you just explain Persuade again? First you write that it allows her to snag pokemon and 1/2 HP, then you're talking about a 70% chance. What gives? In fact, I know that AB said somewhere that the likelihood of a successful snag were dependent on HP. Hey, AB, could you elaborate on that? Like, what probability will we have at which level? And Drac, you then outline the changes that persuasion should make to that. Just so we know. And... Crit: Once again, Menarker, what gives? When you proposed that speed should influence crit, I thought you actually mean that it should influence crit. Rather than, y'know, having some sort of minor effect on crit (because heavens, we wouldn't want to inconvenience Absol or Honchkrow!) and a bunch of other minor effects besides. Seriously. If you don't want to base speed on crit at all, ok. Maybe we can think of something else. But you seem to be arguing with yourself here. On the one hand, you want speed to influence crit. I agree with this side, and add that for this to work, speed would have to be the primary influence on crit. On the other hand, you seem dead-set on not disturbing anything. This is the side that seems irrational to me, since this is a full stat, for god's sake. It's fully one 6th of the bunch of numbers that indicate the fighting power of each and every pokemon. Modifying it is gonna cause some waves. So make up your mind: Either we use crit for speed and we go all-in and make it the major, core factor, or we find some other major offensive characteristic for speed to modify. But you can't give speed a bunch of minor influences, cause that'd a) screw up the game even more, b) probably still keep speed as the dump stat and c) be very hard to balance. Also, you confuse me. When did I ever mention a "near 50% constant chance of critting"? I proposed that fast pokemon get +2 to crit, +3 if they're twice as fast as their opponent. That'd still only come out to 33%. But that's just a minor point. I explained my grievance above |
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09-04-2010, 07:05 AM
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#57 | ||||||||
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Moves Like Jagger, Kupo!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: To the south, a little to the left... Or to the right.
Posts: 4,910
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It's been forever since we even TALKED about Snaggers, I have no idea how they work anymore. Quote:
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'S kinda like that. Elizabeth doesn't know how to fight, but throw some skimpy power armor on her and she'll be kicking ass. She's the heiress of a big weapons developer. Makes sense she'd get a specialized armor with enough offensive capabilities to offset her lack of training. Or maybe nuke a small country. Still, we can nerf her RPDA a bit to reflect the fact that she's not a Slayer. Cut the duration to three turns too, if you want. Quote:
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First level of Persuade would affect this so that Elizabeth can Snag pokemon at half of their max HP. Second level of Persuade improves her chances from 60% to 70% when the pokemon's HP is at 1/2 or less. Quote:
I forget how they work.
__________________
Dracorion's dumbass color is Royal Blue. If you see that color, you better run the fuck away. Last edited by Dracorion; 09-04-2010 at 07:16 AM. |
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09-04-2010, 08:02 AM
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#58 | |
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SOM3WH3R3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,606
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Gah. I will have to consider the implications of this. As for the rest, I see. That's fine, if you ask me, you can leave the RDPA at 5 turns (though what would her stats be?). |
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09-04-2010, 08:07 AM
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#59 | |
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Moves Like Jagger, Kupo!
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: To the south, a little to the left... Or to the right.
Posts: 4,910
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Quote:
As for her stats, well, ideally they'd be Slayer stats. Though if you think that's too much we can make 'em 1/2 or 3/4.
__________________
Dracorion's dumbass color is Royal Blue. If you see that color, you better run the fuck away. |
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09-04-2010, 09:15 AM
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#60 |
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SOM3WH3R3
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 4,606
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Upgraded, uncustomized (meaning the full 100 across the board), without STAB should be fine.
Eh. Fine. It's not like it'll make any difference, but still. Her assets are so getting seized. |
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