Pokemon Umbral Theatre 13: Armored Goes West

[Astral Harmony]

Ugh...

You guys and your confusing shit. Keep it up and I'll put Necromorphs in this RP.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Also, yeah, I haven't been sure either on Mollesk's Legendary status. But it does have 680 base stats.

Which I did because Pierce insisted on having 680 for his custom pokemon. When I at first proposed Mollesk to AB, I intended it to be a 600 stat pokemon. But then Enmakki's existance was declared and his stats were 680, (and Pierce already had 2 pokemons that had 600+ base stats on top of that when Renny only had one pokemon like that). So when Pierce gets Enmakki, he's pretty much going to end up with Adamanitar, Dialaga, Enmakki, and Metagross, all whom has 600 base stats (And that's before considering if Aria or some other 600+ base stat pokemon is going to be on the team). Renny on the other hand, will only have Shaymin and Mollesk (and Swampert after Veteran status reward).

And before anyone states that Mollesk is an evolved pokemon and thus can't be legendary, I remind you of Manphy and its baby form Phione which proves that legendary pokemons can have evolution stages.

AB: Regarding the Testament Drive for Legendaries, does that mean we only get to choose 1 type for the Testament Drive permanently? Or does it mean what I thought it meant and that it is just one type at the time of using it? (So we don't have those weird discussions of a move being dual typed.)

[Bard The 5th LW]

And before anyone states that Mollesk is an evolved pokemon and thus can't be legendary, I remind you of Manphy and its baby form Phione which proves that legendary pokemons can have evolution stages.

Phione doesn't evolve into Manaphy, its just an offspring. Also, due to its situation, its legendary status has been debated.

[Menarker]

^^; Oh. You're right. However odd that is. (The fact that it doesn't evolve into what created it, not the fact that you're right).

Still, that is still proof that legendary status doesn't all have to fit in the same rules.

Originally Posted by Armored Bishoujo

Honestly, I kinda don't want there to be a custom move for Mollesk, mainly because it isn't a Legendary Pokemon. My file says he's only a shiny Pokemon.

The argument has less to do about legendary status and more about custom pokemon status. I already said the reason why I wanted a custom move for my custom pokemon is because Drac was allowed a custom move for his custom pokemon and the same for Bard for his custom pokemon.

[Bard The 5th LW]

As of Heartgold/SoulSilver, the verdict seems to be 'not legendary'. Its flip-flopped quite a bit.

[Geminex]

Anyhow, seeing how all three of us trainers have a custom pokemon with a custom move, I guess that means we're scrapping Gem's argument.

My proposal was 'trainers only get one free custom move each'.
Unless you're saying 'No, I want more free custom moves', that proposal seems to be getting implicitely accepted at least.

Clearly what we do is make your stuff readily available to everyone but Gem on another medium.

Oh for the love of god. This isn't so hard. I haven't once had to check your guys' bios for stuff. I have some stuff on file, I remember the rest. And Impact has, like, two techinques. This shouldn't be that hard!

But fiiiine. If you're gonna be whiney otherwise.

Anyway, BEHOLD IT IS DONE.
Now shut up.


But to business...

This is different Gem. Mollesk gets a custom move for my custom pokemon that doesn't cost an upgrade because Pierce gets a custom move for his custom pokemon (Enmakki) that doesn't cost an upgrade and because legendary pokemons tend to get custom signature moves anyhow.

And Umbreon is already getting a custom move that I'm spending the upgrade on. And Swampert is getting the Veteran Pokemon treatment with improved stats and new ability courtesy of THAT upgrade. (Since his current one sucks).

So especially, if you insist that I can't have a custom move for Mollesk, then Pierce can't have one for Enmakki. And that means you would have to fight the arguments on two fronts. Especially if it turns out that Bard's Revanard has a custom move too.

Seriously, did you even read what I wrote? I sad I'm fine with one free custom move, cause it makes the RP more fun, even if it unbalances everything a little. I'm being friggin' generous here. You should be thanking me!

And what do you mean, 'argument on two fronts'? Remember the deal? The one where we all care about balancing? If they deduce that something would be balanced, they should be arguing for it no matter which characters it affects.

Though I have to confess, I'm really not sure about the custom abilities either. I mean, I'll wait and see. But if they turn out too strong, I might request a nerf.

Your math is incorrect as have been demostrated and debated before, the nerf never happened and never will as long as that is the case.

LET GO FOR SOME ALGEBRA, SHALL WE?
Rt is the total amount of rage Renny gains per turn.
R1 is the amount of rage gained for attacking, R2 is gained for getting attacked.
Assuming no other sources of rage (rage rockets are limited now, after all), R1+R2=Rt
I'd even go as far as to say that R2 = R1. Or even R2 > R1! Because if you think about it, we gain rage when we land a hit as when we take a hit. But we usually take a lot more hits then we land them, since our opponents usually outnumber us. Not to mention that when we use anything that costs rage, we don't get rage for it. But I'd settle for R1 = R2.

So Renny's normally getting 2 * R2 rage per turn. Sure, it fluctuates from turn-to-turn, but on average, he takes about as many hits as everyone else. And I'd say that on average, all other characters gain 2 * R2 rage as well. Again, this'll flucuate from situation to situation. But I think an average between all characters, all situations, would bring us to this.

Anyway, your proposed item gives you defensive rage whenever an ally gains defensive rage. On average, that means you're getting triple the R2. So renny goes from 2 R2 to 4 R2, and that in turn means he's going from Rt to 2 Rt as long as togekiss is out. That's double the original amount.

I think my math checks out pretty damn well. Your only possible argument is that it only works while togekiss is out. But eh. That only lessens the whole 'fucking overpowered' aspect of it, doesn't remove it. Because yes, there's ways to disrupt its use. You can disrupt rage generation, you can knock out togekiss. But the fact that it can be countered doesn't mean it's not stronger than it should be!

And if it turns out that you guys totally try to insist on a nerf, I'll insist on making a brand new custom item. Probably something revolving around Togekiss getting an accessory that increases its Serene Grace so secondary effects always have no less than a 50% chance of activating, regardless of how low the chance of success is normally. Would be great on a move like AncientPower, Omnious Wind or Silver Wind that boosts all stats by 1!

Okay. You're doing two things here.
First, you're really showing me exactly how prepared you are to uphold deals of any sort. You're literally going 'If it's not overpowered, I don't want this item! Let me come up with something else that's overpowered, so we can go through the whole process all over again!'. That's so not in the spirit of our deal, I don't even know how I should react.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure that last sentence was some sort of incredibly smug, incredibly transparent attempt to make me go 'Oh no, that's even worse! I had better give in now!'.
In other words, you're breaking deals and making threats. And you're doing it pretty badly. : /

And like I said, one free custom move, fine. But not on fucking Mollesk. Give it to Togekiss. Or Swampert. Or one of your other mons. But Mollesk is way too fucking customized already.

Consider me on strike FIRE.

Fixed that for you.
'kay.

Drac, I like the thunder cannon. But I'd really call 200 the ceiling, especially since it has a pretty good chance to paralyze, doesn't it?
The Terra hammer does seem to have rather a lot of power as well, but eh. I won't complain about it. Though the whole 'demerits won't affect allies' thing seems precariously close to Bullshit. Still, let's wait and see.

And Drac...
I just want you to know that, well, I really, really despise you. My hatred for you is unmatched by any force on this world, and nothing you can do will stop your inevitable doom. I see each and every one of your flaws, and that just drives my rage at the universe for allowing you to exist. Every time I see your posts, I lose faith in humanity. You are a horrible person.
...
I guess what I'm trying to say here is...
I want to -I can- be your villain.

[Menarker]

Originally Posted by Geminex

My proposal was 'trainers only get one free custom move each'.
Unless you're saying 'No, I want more free custom moves', that proposal seems to be getting implicitely accepted at least.

And like I said, one free custom move, fine. But not on fucking Mollesk. Give it to Togekiss. Or Swampert. Or one of your other mons. But Mollesk is way too fucking customized already.

That was what I was effectively agreeing on. One free custom move for my custom pokemon (Mollesk) just like all the others have, and one move that is awarded as an specific upgrade in the development plan (Umbreon).

There are no decently powered viable bug type moves for STAB that is thematically viable. Otherwise, I wouldn't have to make a custom move specifically for Mollesk to use a DECENT bug move. Megahorn kinda requires a HORN which Mollesk doesn't have. Attack Order is specifically for Vesiquen only because only she comes with a personal army due to her being queen bee. X-Scissor require BLADES which Mollesk also doesn't have. U-Turn switches the pokemon out, which is useless for a tank that is supposed to STAY there. The rest are pretty much all low power or special typed attacks which Mollesk has crap amount of.

It's basically a somewhat stronger version of Rock Slide for bug move with a personal twist for customization. Unless you would let me make a exact version of Rock Slide but bug type for free and let me make an actual custom move for a different pokemon like Magnezone (who has been neglected in terms of upgrades overall.)

Also, you keep saying that Mollesk is way too customized? Bullshit. He NEEDS that much because the setting we're in is built to be unfair toward defense and stall types pokemons. Hence to make a pokemon of that build that is viable for this setting, he needs the extra customization.

Seriously, did you even read what I wrote? I sad I'm fine with one free custom move, cause it makes the RP more fun, even if it unbalances everything a little. I'm being friggin' generous here. You should be thanking me!

And what do you mean, 'argument on two fronts'? Remember the deal? The one where we all care about balancing? If they deduce that something would be balanced, they should be arguing for it no matter which characters it affects.

I was objecting over how you insist on how my custom pokemon should not have a custom move when the other two trainers in the RP Charlotte and Pierce would be allowed that. Thus a total lack of consistency of what you saying to me and what you're allowing for the others. That is NOT balanced allowing it to some but not all in the same situation. And of course, Drac and Bard would have a fit if you tried to remove their custom moves to justify removing mine. (Hence what I meant about fighting on multiple fronts.)

LET GO FOR SOME ALGEBRA, SHALL WE?
Rt is the total amount of rage Renny gains per turn.
R1 is the amount of rage gained for attacking, R2 is gained for getting attacked.
Assuming no other sources of rage (rage rockets are limited now, after all), R1+R2=Rt
I'd even go as far as to say that R2 = R1. Or even R2 > R1! Because if you think about it, we gain rage when we land a hit as when we take a hit. But we usually take a lot more hits then we land them, since our opponents usually outnumber us. Not to mention that when we use anything that costs rage, we don't get rage for it. But I'd settle for R1 = R2.

So Renny's normally getting 2 * R2 rage per turn. Sure, it fluctuates from turn-to-turn, but on average, he takes about as many hits as everyone else. And I'd say that on average, all other characters gain 2 * R2 rage as well. Again, this'll flucuate from situation to situation. But I think an average between all characters, all situations, would bring us to this.

Anyway, your proposed item gives you defensive rage whenever an ally gains defensive rage. On average, that means you're getting triple the R2. So renny goes from 2 R2 to 4 R2, and that in turn means he's going from Rt to 2 Rt as long as togekiss is out. That's double the original amount.

I think my math checks out pretty damn well. Your only possible argument is that it only works while togekiss is out. But eh. That only lessens the whole 'fucking overpowered' aspect of it, doesn't remove it. Because yes, there's ways to disrupt its use. You can disrupt rage generation, you can knock out togekiss. But the fact that it can be countered doesn't mean it's not stronger than it should be!


Okay. You're doing two things here.
First, you're really showing me exactly how prepared you are to uphold deals of any sort. You're literally going 'If it's not overpowered, I don't want this item! Let me come up with something else that's overpowered, so we can go through the whole process all over again!'. That's so not in the spirit of our deal, I don't even know how I should react.

Secondly, I'm pretty sure that last sentence was some sort of incredibly smug, incredibly transparent attempt to make me go 'Oh no, that's even worse! I had better give in now!'.
In other words, you're breaking deals and making threats. And you're doing it pretty badly. : /

Every time you make one of these complaints and calling for nerfs, you never propose anything to make it better and the amount of times you do it, it sounds whiny almost every time. You know that? We argued this argument several times, but you never propose anything but negative comments that can be condensed to "SHOOT IT DOWN, END IT NOW!" You just say "It's wrong, It's wrong", but not what it could be or what would be acceptable for keeping in theme with the idea. You say you want us to discuss balance. You aren't helping that at all. You're insisting that one's viewpoint is wrong, and not providing an alternative that you feel would be acceptable. So the natural result is we fight against you trying to defend our viewpoint instead of discussing alternatives.

We already had a combat where the item was used and the amount of rage gained was nowhere near broken. It had practically passed actual testing and we were still keeping an eye on it when you insisted for no proven reason it was no good. Your math doesn't actually work out in the face of actual testing. Especially since we were still keeping an eye on it.

I suggested the new item in case your entire argument is based on "no one should have an item that is based on rage ever". But of course, I'm just guessing because you're being so inept at actually stating the actual reasons why you feel the item does not work out. The ancientpower example was basically a concise example of what said proposed item would/could possibly do. It's simple, it's effective, AB can figure out if the effect procs or not by a simple coin flip (thus it helps the GM) and it's still less than some of the other moves like Air Slash who get 60% normally. If you thought the item would be ok, then we could end the argument here. I didn't think of the item before, but upon your repeated insistant arguments that never go anywhere, I felt I should propose an item that I would be willing to take instead on the off-chance that it would end all the argument.
(And just to let you know, I thought of making Serene Grace be triple so it wouldn't effect moves like AncientPower or ice type moves that freeze to 50% (makes it 30% instead), but then Air Slash would flinch 90% of the time, Heat Wave would AOE with 60% burn, Twister would AOE 60% flinch and that sort of thing, which I felt would potentially more overpowered.)

[Dracorion]

Originally Posted by Geminex

My proposal was 'trainers only get one free custom move each'.
Unless you're saying 'No, I want more free custom moves', that proposal seems to be getting implicitely accepted at least.

Personally, I'm okay with "only custom Legendaries get custom moves". Which is actually only Legendaries get signature moves.

Of course there are non-Legendaries out there with signature moves, but we would abuse that shit if it was that way.

Originally Posted by Geminex

But fiiiine. If you're gonna be whiney otherwise.

Anyway, BEHOLD IT IS DONE.
Now shut up.

I AM STILL ON STRIKE UNTIL YOU ADD IMPACT'S CURRENT WEAPONS AND ARMOR AND HOLD ITEMS.

AND KEEP THEM UPDATED.

I HAVE SPOKEN.

Originally Posted by Geminex

Drac, I like the thunder cannon. But I'd really call 200 the ceiling, especially since it has a pretty good chance to paralyze, doesn't it?

... Did I?

I do seem to remember something of the sort, actually.

FINE FINE I'LL GET AROUND TO PUTTING THEM IN MY PROFILE. AFTER YOU UPDATE YOURS, BIZNATCH. SEE ABOVE.

So can I do three-turns, 200 power, 100% Paralysis?

Actually, that does seem kinda too much. Especially when you put it together with everything else Pierce has.

Originally Posted by Geminex

The Terra hammer does seem to have rather a lot of power as well, but eh. I won't complain about it. Though the whole 'demerits won't affect allies' thing seems precariously close to Bullshit. Still, let's wait and see.

Well it's basically allies don't take Sandstorm damage and Snipers won't have their view obstructed.

Originally Posted by Geminex

And Drac...
I just want you to know that, well, I really, really despise you. My hatred for you is unmatched by any force on this world, and nothing you can do will stop your inevitable doom. I see each and every one of your flaws, and that just drives my rage at the universe for allowing you to exist. Every time I see your posts, I lose faith in humanity. You are a horrible person.
...
I guess what I'm trying to say here is...
I want to -I can- be your villain.

Sorry, Gem, but FU Bard is a better villain for me.

Bard... I can be your hero.

[Bard The 5th LW]

Originally Posted by Dracorion

Bard... I can be your hero.

Nope.

[Menarker]

^^ On a total side note, I was playing Pokemon Platinum. Specifically, Battle Factory. It's a section in Battle Frontier where you get randomly given a choice of 6 rental pokemons of which you choose 3. Ultimately, your goal is to win Seven 3 Vs 3 pokemon battles in a row using those pokemons. Before each battle, you're given a little hint as to the battle tactics of the foe or what pokemons or moves they use (you get less hints as your winning streak go up). After each battle, but before the next one, you have the option to switch out one of your pokemons with one of the 3 pokemons of the foe you just recently beaten.

My team had a Togekiss, Umbreon and Swampert (Sounds familiar?) out of sheer luck. The Togekiss in particular was a Serene Grace build with Air Slash, Ancient Power, Omnious Wind and Silver Wind. Normally, those 3 moves only have a 10% chance of proccing and giving the pokemon +1 to all stats. With Serene Grace, it becomes 20%, but that's still low.

But my Togekiss procced those moves THREE TIMES IN A ROW! He had +3 to all stats! And that was awesome.