[DISCUSS] Gaston is better than the Beast

[Loyal]

"Terrorist" is roughly synonymous to "Freedom Fighter," often with the only distinction being who's addressing the subject in question.

Doesn't change the fact that from the perspective of the Empire and whomever might be under their influence, Han Solo and the entire Rebellion are a terrorist organization.

Hell, according to Imperial propaganda, Palpatine was like unto a caring, benevolent god, the Rebellion was a bunch of meanie-doodoo-heads, and quite a few people believed that even after his death.

[Karrrrrrrrrrrresche]

Originally Posted by Loyal

Hell, according to Imperial propaganda, Palpatine was like unto a caring, benevolent god, the Rebellion was a bunch of meanie-doodoo-heads, and quite a few people believed that even after his death.

It's not hard to believe when you consider that for certain portions of the galaxy life wasn't just not bad but could actually be pretty fucking awesome as far as standard of living goes.

As long as you never questioned anything, were 100% human and had no qualms about surrendering freedoms.

[Ryong]

Originally Posted by Nique

Like, it is totally great not to judge by outward appearances, or to go for 'commoners' becuase they are virtuous and stuff, but Aladdin is literally a criminal.

He stole food to eat and went dungeon raiding which like every video game hero does!

[Nique]

Originally Posted by Ryong

He stole food to eat and went dungeon raiding which like every video game hero does!

You mean stealing directly from local businesses and allowing his monkey to illegally raid treasure from a tomb/ cave/ whatever? Not to mention conning his way into the palace?

I'm glad these Disney heroes turn out to be great guys who are just misunderstood or railing against unfair social rules or whatever, but I don't know if seeing every charming thug (EDIT: or spoiled and potentially abusive rich white guy) who comes your way as potential marriage material is really a great message...?

Actually, in all seriousness I think it's possible to worry too much about this kind of thing and not judging a book by it's cover is still a pretty good message. But it is important to think about the kind of ideas that our media reinforces.

Originally Posted by Hawk

Doesn't change the fact that the Empire are still genocidal fucks who are trying to manipulate everyone to their will. Anyone fighting against that is ok by my book, whatever you class them as. It doesn't matter what you refer to your enemies as if you're still evil as fuck.

Sounds right.

[01d55]

Are we seriously arguing that we should all just roll over for propagandistic redefinition of the word "terrorism" and/or abandon the idea that it has any real meaning at all?

Because no, fuck you. Terrorism is the practice of avoiding direct armed conflict in favor of attacks against civilians in order to intimidate (or enrage) the target population. Avoiding open field combat in favor of ambush or sabotage against military targets is guerrilla warfare.

Now in real life people resort to guerrilla tactics for most of the same reasons as people who resort to terrorism and this leads to a lot of people resorting to both at the same time, but in Star Wars they told a nice fairy tale story about virtuous guerrillas who never resort to terror tactics.

TL;DR: Han Solo was a criminal. Then he became a guerrilla.

Also I was going to point out that the thread has been derailed but actually trying to give credence to (inferred) Imperial propaganda is totally the same as trying to pass off Gaston as anything other than a bully & a stalker.

Pay attention to what Gaston does during his song: He casually inflicts violence on his supposed admirers with absolute impunity. It's obvious to anyone who thinks about it that trying to call Gaston on anything he does, or even withholding praise for Gaston, will be punished. Through violence and intimidation Gaston has created a culture of enforced admiration. Gaston doesn't even like Belle, but simply never takes no for an answer and resolves to marry Belle in order to bring her in line with the cult of Gaston.

Beast, on the other hand, gives up on ever breaking the curse and takes no for an answer. If it had been Gaston who saved Belle from the wolves he would have pretty much straight out said "You owe me your life so now you HAVE to marry me so HA!" And Belle would have justly told him to go pound sand. Beast, on the other hand, says something along the lines of "Ugh FINE this was a terrible idea to begin with just go." It's pretty surly but it's pretty much the opposite of post-abuse abuser excuses (the abuser always asks for another chance) so I'm not going to fault Belle for making the call to hear him out after holding out for the principle that she has the right to make that call herself.

P.S. Nique if Aladdin was protesting the tyrannical rule of the Sultan he wouldn't have food.

P.P.S. The Fairy who cursed Beast et. al was goddamn evil. The curse is set to become permanent on Beast's 21st year, and at the time of the movie they've been cursed for 10 years. She cursed an 11 year old boy and his entire staff (implication: kid was a rich orphan) because a child didn't have good manners, and for good measure enchanted a portrait to track what Beast would look like if not for the curse.

[Nique]

Originally Posted by 01d55

Are we seriously arguing that we should all just roll over for propagandistic redefinition of the word "terrorism" and/or abandon the idea that it has any real meaning at all?

Yes. Because the word actually doesn't have an agreed upon definition, so it is only ever used in propaganda anyway.

Are we seriously becoming legitimately upset at people calling the Rebels from Star Wars what they would actually have been called in real life?

EDIT: It seems like you guys are afraid of the word. Like, seriously if I was fighting some dudes as obviously wicked-evil as the Empire, I would be pretty happy to call myself a terrorist.

Nique if Aladdin was protesting the tyrannical rule of the Sultan he wouldn't have food.

Because that's the way the story was written and the way the story was written sends weird messages about lying, stealing, and romance.

[Nique]

Here's hoping I don't wind up on an FBI watch list for that post.

[Krylo]

Originally Posted by Nique

Yes. Because the word actually doesn't have an agreed upon definition

[Nique]

Wikipedia seemed to indicate that what identifies a group as a terrorist organization has no legal definition, and yeah that was totally not clear from;

Originally Posted by Past Nique. He's dead now.

Yes. Because the word actually doesn't have an agreed upon definition, so it is only ever used in propaganda anyway.

Although, just working off of dictionary dot com, this

1.the use of violence and threats to intimidate or coerce, especially for political purposes.

Pretty much sounds like the Rebel Alliance, Sonic The Hedgehog, Brown Coats, the Maquis, or equivalent in whatever other particular flavor of science fiction themed social commentary you chose.

[The Artist Formerly Known as Hawk]

When exactly did the Rebel Alliance use threats of violence to intimidate or coerce anybody? When did frikken' Sonic for that matter either? As far as I recall they hid and they ran, and when they couldn't do that they stood up and fought back on even terms, which is what, you know, armies in a war do.

Just because you oppose a larger nation/military force and use guerrilla tactics to oppose them does not make you a fucking terrorist. Terrorists use terror as their primary and often only weapon. They scare populations, murder civilians and broadcast propoganda and messages of hatred to incite more violence. Their modus operandi is completely different.

By your definitation any force that opposes any other force is now guilty of terrorism? What?