Clown 9: The Greatest Spider-Man Villain Ever Invented

[Aerozord]

The whole unmasking the superhero thing always reminds me of that one scene from DCAU where Luthor is in the Flash's body so he figures this is his chance, takes off the mask, looking into the mirror
"I have absolutely no idea who this is"

Peter Parker is a freelance photographer living with his aunt. Not the most famous individual. Sure you could argue he is well known for taking pictures of Spider-Man but you could also argue someone should have put two and two together by now

[Magus]

Yeah, that was a good episode, and that's also the way the Comics Curmudgeon went with it:

I know trying to question the logic of funnybook superheroes is just asking for a trip down a rabbithole of crazy but: since Peter Parker is not in-universe famous, wouldn’t unmasking Spider-Man be incredibly anti-climactic? I mean, it’s not like he’s internationally famous playboy Tony Stark or billionaire philanthropist Bruce Wayne or even well-known journalist Clark Kent. I’m guessing it would go something like “OH MY GOD SPIDER-MAN IS … uh … that guy? I guess?”

[Aerozord]

On a related note, did you know Stan Lee originally didn't want the Green Goblin to be Osborn, originally he wanted the goblin to just be, some guy. Because he felt it was silly that a superhero personally knew or was otherwise connected to all his enemies.

[Magus]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

On a related note, did you know Stan Lee originally didn't want the Green Goblin to be Osborn, originally he wanted the goblin to just be, some guy. Because he felt it was silly that a superhero personally knew or was otherwise connected to all his enemies.

Well, I'm glad that no other Spider-Man villain he concocted was connected to Peter personally.

I don't think any of the creators ever go with their original plans for this stuff, or they end up regretting them. Like Kane and Finger wished that the Joker had killed Bruce's parents instead of just being some guy, but they went with the some guy route. I think they shouldn't bother second-guessing these things--they came up with them 50 years ago, after all, and it all turned out fine in the end.

I think I prefer the villains being connected. I think it gives them more personal impetus to bring them to justice. Like even if they are just some guy, they make sure to have them off someone the character cares about to create a personal connection. If they know them personally before they go bad it just adds even more dramatic tension to their eventual battle.

[Aerozord]

issue was "all his villains" that the Green Goblin was supposed to be the exception to the rule. Otherwise it seems contrived.

And your example of Batman. Works alot better as, some guy. For one it means he better represents the faceless criminal element for him to combat. He isn't getting revenge, he is fighting against crime itself. Plus if it was the joker, defeats joke, to alot of people that would be, motivation resolved. Which you dont want for comics especially Batman.

[Magus]

Yeah but he can never kill the Joker. So he would never fully get revenge. IF they had went that way. They didn't, they went with Joe Chill who was basically just "some guy" and that works that way, as you say.

That said I like the concept of the Joker just being some guy (but you'll notice they always have him try to kill somebody Bruce likes, such as Gordon, or in the movies his girlfriend), I'm just saying the creators have their second thoughts on the concept, but it turned out just fine. And I think Green Goblin is just fine as a Norman Osborn. Besides, didn't he eventually get his wish in the form of characters like Kingpin/Mysterio/Sandman/Scorpion/Shocker who are only very tangentially related, if at all (can't remember a lot of the origins for some of them)? Or did other people come up with those ones?

[Aerozord]

Originally Posted by Magus

Yeah but he can never kill the Joker. So he would never fully get revenge. IF they had went that way.

That is a good point. but that raises another one, having Joker be the guy doesn't really add anything. As we have seen Batman has more than enough reason to want to stop him.

Originally Posted by Magus

That said I like the concept of the Joker just being some guy (but you'll notice they always have him try to kill somebody Bruce likes, such as Gordon, or in the movies his girlfriend), I'm just saying the creators have their second thoughts on the concept, but it turned out just fine. And I think Green Goblin is just fine as a Norman Osborn. Besides, didn't he eventually get his wish in the form of characters like Kingpin/Mysterio/Sandman/Scorpion/Shocker who are only very tangentially related, if at all (can't remember a lot of the origins for some of them)? Or did other people come up with those ones?

I'm not a comic book buff, but from what I understand Stan Lee wasn't the one that made Green Goblin Osborn, that was changed after he left the character. In other words they retconned him into being tied to Spider-Man. I guess thats what really bothers me. Not that it was done, but having it done against the creators wishes.

Kingpin I believe was an expanded universe enemy, he's really Dare Devil's villian. Origin with people like Scorpion and Shocker is they were like brought in or created specifically for Spidey. Though Mysterio and Sandman I think you are correct.

Oh and I did some wiki-fu, both were also made by same creators as Spider-Man himself.

[Premmy]

Originally Posted by Aerozord

T
Kingpin I believe was an expanded universe enemy, he's really Dare Devil's villian. Origin with people like Scorpion and Shocker is they were like brought in or created specifically for Spidey. Though Mysterio and Sandman I think you are correct.

Shocker is very specifically just a random thug. That's pretty much his whole character.

[Amake]

Throughout the seventies and I think eighties Kingpin had quite a grudge match with Spidey. He had the Black Cat made to break Spidey's heart and legs. He was a sumo champion who could at his peak beat up Spider-man with his bare hands. He once had the webslinger institutionalized. I think he was shuffled over to Daredevil as Spidey gained some other villains in the organized crime genre and then Mark Miller set it in stone with his definitive Daredevil origin story.

In Ultimate Spider-man Kingpin was the first villain he faced, and I think they continue to have a pretty unique conflict dynamic - Kingpin as the smug face of corruption and the young idealistic Spidey taking him on using everything from investigative journalism to fat jokes and still losing.

Dear Buddha I'm a nerd.

[Locke cole]

And in the mangaverse, he was a sumo wrestler thing.